Why Derek Jeter Is The Most UNDERATED Player In The League.

[YouMadeTheScene]

Stats don't matter and he has good stats. If you watched tonights game so far Derek has carried the entire team, and in not in just a stats way. While he's 4-4 with 2 Singles a Double a 3 Run HR that got the game down to two that stuff doesn't matter. You know why? They're down 10-1 and Jeter is on 2nd and Koronka isn't paying attention and he steals a base and scores. A play like that helps change this game. Without him stealing that base they may not win this game. And it was a striaght out hustle smart play in a game that seemed to be done. Has he played clutch all game and carried them? Of course, but it's his hustle and his non-stop attitude that may make him the most UNDERATED player in baseball.

Am I bias? Maybe. Is this thread waranted? Probably Not. Will I get flamed? Yeah. But I don't care its a forum I air my opinions. Adios.

[bigmike]

no. he is in no way underrated. I'm as big of a jeter fan as the next non yankee fan, however, he is not underrated. He's talked about all the time as a HOFer and as one of the best SS's in the majors. if you think he's underrated, you may want to rethink your definition of "underrated".

[leftstranded]

Stats don't matter and he has good stats. If you watched tonights game so far Derek has carried the entire team, and in not in just a stats way. While he's 4-4 with 2 Singles a Double a 3 Run HR that got the game down to two that stuff doesn't matter. You know why? They're down 10-1 and Jeter is on 2nd and Koronka isn't paying attention and he steals a base and scores. A play like that helps change this game. Without him stealing that base they may not win this game. And it was a striaght out hustle smart play in a game that seemed to be done. Has he played clutch all game and carried them? Of course, but it's his hustle and his non-stop attitude that may make him the most UNDERATED player in baseball.

Am I bias? Maybe. Is this thread waranted? Probably Not. Will I get flamed? Yeah. But I don't care its a forum I air my opinions. Adios.

he's not underrated. the only reason that's said is because he's in new york and no one is talking about him. he constantly performs and is a good player. i think most people in the country know that and so underrated would be the wrong word to use.

[YouMadeTheScene]

no. he is in no way underrated. I'm as big of a jeter fan as the next non yankee fan, however, he is not underrated. He's talked about all the time as a HOFer and as one of the best SS's in the majors. if you think he's underrated, you may want to rethink your definition of "underrated".

He is never mentioned in the top 5 players in the game, and he should. There are tons of players mentioned about HOF and there are people who don't put him in the top 5 SS in the league. He is easy a top 5-10 player in the league and I really don't think people outside of NY put him there.

[YouMadeTheScene]

Maybe Under appreciated. i'd still say underated, but he doest thinks not many people really do.

[bigmike]

He is never mentioned in the top 5 players in the game, and he should. There are tons of players mentioned about HOF and there are people who don't put him in the top 5 SS in the league. He is easy a top 5-10 player in the league and I really don't think people outside of NY put him there.
under appreciated is a better word to use. he is far from underrated. if you gave out a survey of the casual fans to list the top 5 SS's he'd be in there, no doubt. that said, he isn't the best SS on his own team. he's invaluable to the yankees, no doubt, though.

[Broken Parachute]

Underrated? The guy is like the epitomy if a hard worker. I don't like him, but he's like the definition of hustle (minus that retarded in the stands catch).

[Brownpants06]

Um, 20 million dollars a season is not underrated.

[YouMadeTheScene]

Um, 20 million dollars a season is not underrated.


What does money have to do with being underrated? If a player gets paid 5 dollars a game but plays average baseball is he underated what does money have to do with anything?


My point is from watching him as much as I have and seeing so many other players in the league from season tickets to yankees and mets and watching both teams all the time I've seen a lot of players, and he is easily a top 7 position players in the game.

[hockey0001]

i havent read any replies yet, but he is in no way whatsoever underrated

[Brownpants06]

What does money have to do with being underrated? If a player gets paid 5 dollars a game but plays average baseball is he underated what does money have to do with anything?


My point is from watching him as much as I have and seeing so many other players in the league from season tickets to yankees and mets and watching both teams all the time I've seen a lot of players, and he is easily a top 7 position players in the game.


And that's why hes paid like the top top 7 players in the game. He's not underrated.

[hockey0001]

What does money have to do with being underrated? If a player gets paid 5 dollars a game but plays average baseball is he underated what does money have to do with anything?


Usually underpaid and underrated go hand in hand.

[Flags of Dawn]

What does money have to do with being underrated? If a player gets paid 5 dollars a game but plays average baseball is he underated what does money have to do with anything?

because if a team is only willing to pay him 5 dollars a game, they are financially underrating him. he deserves to make what he is worth, and by giving him the money they do proves that he is surely not underrated.

[mikeford]

oh yeah. someone whos cock is firmly stuffed in joe morgan, joe buck, and tim mccarver's mouths is soooooo underrated.

[LeftWideOpen]

you screwed up the title ..it should be "why the AP sports forum needs moderators back".

[JTrain12]

OVERRATED...like that "heroic" play he made diving into the stands and messin up his face...big deal, hockey players dive to block 90mph slapshots, take pucks to the face, get stitched up and never miss a shift...

[hockey0001]

OVERRATED...like that "heroic" play he made diving into the stands and messin up his face...big deal, hockey players dive to block 90mph slapshots, take pucks to the face, get stitched up and never miss a shift...

this is true, but do they do it when they could have kept their balance and stopped running instead?

[hockey0001]

you screwed up the title ..it should be "why the AP sports forum needs moderators back".

whatever happened with that? Werent they trying to get a new one a couple weeks ago? Anyone know the deal with that?

[bigmike]

OVERRATED...like that "heroic" play he made diving into the stands and messin up his face...big deal, hockey players dive to block 90mph slapshots, take pucks to the face, get stitched up and never miss a shift...
so he's overrated because he doesn't play hockey?

[NetNerdsRevenge]

He's overrated on defense. I've said that a thousand times and Ill say it again. And his stolen base was when he went second to third. Posada followed that with a single. Jeter should be able to make it home from second on a single. (now, I will confess I didnt watch the game so I dont know how hard it was hit or where it went.) Is he underrated? no. For his salary he could be considered overrated, but we wont go there.

the most underrated player in my mind is Adam Dunn. That guy is a monster.

[Goodbye Forever]

Miguel Cabrera.

[Split2nd]

Plenty of players in the league "hustle," and make "key plays" or whatever, and they're not viewed in the same light as Jeter. There's no way in hell that Jeter is underrated. You're posting this thread with emotions running high after a very exciting win, I know the feeling. You're ready to splurge out little Jeters out of your wang. Derek Jeter is a fine baseball player, a very good Shortstop, but he's not underrated. He's not a gold glove calibur defender, but he's a pretty good hitter, in the .850ish range of OPS, which is very good for a SS. Good leader. But he's not among the game's best just because he "hustles" and is a "gamechanger."

In fact, this thread may be the reason that he's overrated. There are plenty of guys in the league who would do that exact same thing in that play and score a run, but they won't be recognized for it, because they're not Derek Jeter.

[JTrain12]

this is true, but do they do it when they could have kept their balance and stopped running instead?

no, but you dont have to go down to block shots either...you could leave that to the goalie that has a hell of a lot more protection than you...

[Broken Parachute]

Plenty of players in the league "hustle," and make "key plays" or whatever, and they're not viewed in the same light as Jeter. There's no way in hell that Jeter is underrated. You're posting this thread with emotions running high after a very exciting win, I know the feeling. You're ready to splurge out little Jeters out of your wang. Derek Jeter is a fine baseball player, a very good Shortstop, but he's not underrated. He's not a gold glove calibur defender, but he's a pretty good hitter, in the .850ish range of OPS, which is very good for a SS. Good leader. But he's not among the game's best just because he "hustles" and is a "gamechanger."

In fact, this thread may be the reason that he's overrated. There are plenty of guys in the league who would do that exact same thing in that play and score a run, but they won't be recognized for it, because they're not Derek Jeter.

I'll say it once, I'll say it twice, I'll say it three times..David Wright's catch into the stands in Seattle is so underrated. Everyone loves Jeter's catch because it was important to the game and it wasso heroic. Wright's didn't even make the Top 5 Web Gems that night. I'm still confused about that.

[YouMadeTheScene]

You guys can think what you'd like IMO he's underrated for different reasons. I didn't think that anyone would agree with me at all. If Derek Jeter played for the Royals people would call him the best player in the league. I'll leave it at that.

[Spicoli hey bud]

Anyone who slaps around Mariah Carey is the man in my book

[Goodbye Forever]

You guys can think what you'd like IMO he's underrated for different reasons. I didn't think that anyone would agree with me at all. If Derek Jeter played for the Royals people would call him the best player in the league. I'll leave it at that.

Albert Pujols is the best player in the league, regardless of where Jeter plays.

Take off the blinders for a second, man.

Hell, he's not even the best player on the Yankees.

[Split2nd]

You guys can think what you'd like IMO he's underrated for different reasons. I didn't think that anyone would agree with me at all. If Derek Jeter played for the Royals people would call him the best player in the league. I'll leave it at that.

You're honestly insane if you believe that. I mean seriously, that's one of the most asinine things I've ever read... DEREK JETER IS NOT THAT GOOD. I like him as a ballplayer, but there's no way, ever, ever, EVER he'd be considered a top 10 player in the league, let alone the BEST. On the Royals, he'd never make it to the playoffs, and he'd never make the plays that lead people to believe that he's clutch. He's not even NEAR good enough to drive an average team to the playoffs.

[Split2nd]

For the record, I'd take "A-Choke" 497 times out of 497 over Jeter. You need someone to get you to the playoffs first, and ARod's 1.000+ OPS with stellar defense gets you there over Jeter's occasional "heart" and "clutch."

Didn't someone on the Sox make the exact same play that Jeter did in that game? It wasn't that great of a catch. If he weren't such a shitty SS... well you know the rest.

[bigmike]

You guys can think what you'd like IMO he's underrated for different reasons. I didn't think that anyone would agree with me at all. If Derek Jeter played for the Royals people would call him the best player in the league. I'll leave it at that.
I'd like to quote myself from another thread in which a kid predicted shaun alexander to be terrible because he can apparently foresee injuries before they happen:
Can't we lock this forum from retards like this kid and just let the regular posters here post without these idiots? or at least screen them through some sort of spelling test like "spell the word 'claimed'," and/or sports knowledge test like "do you believe in ridiculous curses and that a mediocre WR's departure will cause the MVP RB to drop in production?" some of these kids are ridiculous.

You, and the kid in the other thread are reason why we should screen for retards. even our most diehard, bias fans (mikeford) don't make ridiculous, serious claims like this. How is he underrated because he hustles and "steals 3rd"? I believe that's why he's the fucking captain of the yankees and why he's paid tons and tons of money. It's his JOB. And regardless of where he plays he'd still be a clutch hitter that's overrated defensively with limited range and a classy act. Also this "stats don't matter"... how is this true in the one game in american sports that is based the MOST around stats? How is this possible? and please, you might want to wait a few minutes after a thrilling victory over those perennial contending Texas Rangers, before you make a ridiculous thread like this. kthx.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

Miguel Cabrera.
he gets a lot of hype.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

For the record, I'd take "A-Choke" 497 times out of 497 over Jeter. You need someone to get you to the playoffs first, and ARod's 1.000+ OPS with stellar defense gets you there over Jeter's occasional "heart" and "clutch."

Didn't someone on the Sox make the exact same play that Jeter did in that game? It wasn't that great of a catch. If he weren't such a shitty SS... well you know the rest.
I think you nailed it except for this post. I wouldn’t call A-rods defense on 3rd stellar. Defensive metrics don’t like him at 3rd, but they do at short. Also, Pokey Reese is the name you are looking for. He made the same play as Jeter, but didn’t go flying into the stands.

[mikeford]

A-rod's nickname is "A-Fraud", for the record.

[YouMadeTheScene]

I'd like to quote myself from another thread in which a kid predicted shaun alexander to be terrible because he can apparently foresee injuries before they happen:


You, and the kid in the other thread are reason why we should screen for retards. even our most diehard, bias fans (mikeford) don't make ridiculous, serious claims like this. How is he underrated because he hustles and "steals 3rd"? I believe that's why he's the fucking captain of the yankees and why he's paid tons and tons of money. It's his JOB. And regardless of where he plays he'd still be a clutch hitter that's overrated defensively with limited range and a classy act. Also this "stats don't matter"... how is this true in the one game in american sports that is based the MOST around stats? How is this possible? and please, you might want to wait a few minutes after a thrilling victory over those perennial contending Texas Rangers, before you make a ridiculous thread like this. kthx.

Like I said its my opinion. You have to have intangibles to be a great player I think, and I don't think there is anyone who has higher intangibles then Jeter.

If stats do matter the most then why is it that A-Rod is called A-Choke and people basically lambast him, even though stats matter most? See there are wholes in everything everyone is saying.

I could care less if anyone agrees but if you remove yourself from the situation and observe all these players play you'd feel a little different.

[LeftWideOpen]

Like I said its my opinion. You have to have intangibles to be a great player I think, and I don't think there is anyone who has higher intangibles then Jeter.

If stats do matter the most then why is it that A-Rod is called A-Choke and people basically lambast him, even though stats matter most? See there are wholes in everything everyone is saying.

I could care less if anyone agrees but if you remove yourself from the situation and observe all these players play you'd feel a little different.

Bro, I think you are the one who needs to remove yourself from the situtation and observe these guys. Jeter is a hell of a player and he is widely recognized as that ...to suggest he's underrated is hysterical.

[Jesse2]

I wouldn't say he's underrated or overrated. I think it's safe to say that anyone who follows baseball knows who is he and exactly what he brings to the table.

I think most people here would want him on their team (either at second or short), so in that respect he couldn't be underrated.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

Like I said its my opinion. You have to have intangibles to be a great player I think, and I don't think there is anyone who has higher intangibles then Jeter.

If stats do matter the most then why is it that A-Rod is called A-Choke and people basically lambast him, even though stats matter most? See there are wholes in everything everyone is saying.

I could care less if anyone agrees but if you remove yourself from the situation and observe all these players play you'd feel a little different.
lol, Captain Intangibles.

[mikeford]

uh, a below average defensive shortstop is winning gold gloves

thats called being overrated.

[hockey0001]

no, but you dont have to go down to block shots either...you could leave that to the goalie that has a hell of a lot more protection than you...

did you not comprehend the fact that i was supporting your statement?

[hockey0001]

A-rod's nickname is "A-Fraud", for the record.

that or slappy

[jaimej]

I don't think he's underrated at all, but underappreciated is more like it. Especially on forums like this where it's all about "Jeter sucks cock mehh" and all that other bullshit.

[asianxcore]

jeters on roids

[Scott Weber]

Underrated my ass. The guy is a great player, and he gets a FUCKLOAD of recognition for it. Dude is nowhere near underrated.

[selftitled85]

For the record, I'd take "A-Choke" 497 times out of 497 over Jeter. You need someone to get you to the playoffs first, and ARod's 1.000+ OPS with stellar defense gets you there over Jeter's occasional "heart" and "clutch."

Didn't someone on the Sox make the exact same play that Jeter did in that game? It wasn't that great of a catch. If he weren't such a shitty SS... well you know the rest.

no way.

arod has more errors than jeter so far.

arod has a much weaker avg and a much lower on base percentage.

if there is any yankee i would want up with the game in question its jeter and by far NOT arod.

now ill admit this is a little far fetched saying jeter is underrated.

but jeter no way in hell warrants all crap people say about him. his defense has stepped up the past few years...which is why he has won the past two gold gloves. he makes plays when they matter and never quits.

[selftitled85]

and to whomever said that in the game that jeter made the in the stands catch and said the boston one was better is completely kidding himself.

the guy made a great catch but it did not have the injury factor like jeters had.

[bigmike]

no way.

arod has more errors than jeter so far.

arod has a much weaker avg and a much lower on base percentage.

if there is any yankee i would want up with the game in question its jeter and by far NOT arod.

now ill admit this is a little far fetched saying jeter is underrated.

but jeter no way in hell warrants all crap people say about him. his defense has stepped up the past few years...which is why he has won the past two gold gloves. he makes plays when they matter and never quits.
that's nice that his "defense has stepped up" but he's winning gold gloves when he shouldn't be. He's not even the best shortstop on his team, let alone in the league. he's limited range wise with a good throwing arm. i admit he's a hell of a leader with great intangibles and is extremely clutch, but he's overrated defensively. period.

[bigmike]

Like I said its my opinion. You have to have intangibles to be a great player I think, and I don't think there is anyone who has higher intangibles then Jeter.

If stats do matter the most then why is it that A-Rod is called A-Choke and people basically lambast him, even though stats matter most? See there are wholes in everything everyone is saying.

I could care less if anyone agrees but if you remove yourself from the situation and observe all these players play you'd feel a little different.
A-Rod's probably called A-Choke because he can't come through in the clutch in the playoffs. which is what you expect from a guy making $25 million a year and is regarded as one of the best players in the majors.

You need to remove your bias. you're the only one who is completely blinded by the yankee bias and can't see that he's widely regarded as a top 5-7 player in the game.

[Scott Weber]

A-Rod's probably called A-Choke because he can't come through in the clutch in the playoffs. which is what you expect from a guy making $25 million a year and is regarded as one of the best players in the majors.

You need to remove your bias. you're the only one who is completely blinded by the yankee bias and can't see that he's widely regarded as a top 5-7 player in the game.
FOR THE RECORD

Alex Rodriguez is a career .306 batter in the playoffs with 6 HRs and 16 RBI. In all actuality, the only horrible postseason series he had was in last year's ALCS. Take that series away and he's a .330 hitter in the playoffs with 2 series over .400.

[bigmike]

FOR THE RECORD

Alex Rodriguez is a career .306 batter in the playoffs with 6 HRs and 16 RBI. In all actuality, the only horrible postseason series he had was in last year's ALCS. Take that series away and he's a .330 hitter in the playoffs with 2 series over .400.
how many game winning hits does he have in the postseason? this is a serious question, if someone could find this out, i'd like to know.

[Scott Weber]

how many game winning hits does he have in the postseason? this is a serious question, if someone could find this out, i'd like to know.
you're seriously going to judge him on game winning hits? and if he doesn't have any, he's a choke artist? That's retarded, you know that, right?

[Chriz2z]

Derek Jeter is not underated.

[bigmike]

you're seriously going to judge him on game winning hits? and if he doesn't have any, he's a choke artist? That's retarded, you know that, right?
yeah, i was just thinking that. maybe a better one would be hits that tie or put his team in the lead or late inning hits. i just don't think he's a clutch hitter. that said, he gets way too much shit from yankee fans and casual baseball fans, at that.

[selftitled85]

yeah, i was just thinking that. maybe a better one would be hits that tie or put his team in the lead or late inning hits. i just don't think he's a clutch hitter. that said, he gets way too much shit from yankee fans and casual baseball fans, at that.
no he gets shit because for the amount we are paying him you would think he would play better.
he has been great during the reg season. but he has not been the dominant force during the post season.

[hockey0001]

and to whomever said that in the game that jeter made the in the stands catch and said the boston one was better is completely kidding himself.

the guy made a great catch but it did not have the injury factor like jeters had.

Reese's catch was better. Jeter only gets more credit because he forgot how to stop running and fell into the stands, watch the video, the ball is borderline fair when jeter catches it.


Reeses catch (the link is at the bottom of the page, July 1st game and NYY): http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/multimedia/tp_archive.jsp?c_id=bos&ym=200407

jeter catch: http://youtube.com/watch?v=xcyNqCN7OGA&search=jeter

[histrionics22]

no he gets shit because for the amount we are paying him you would think he would play better.
he has been great during the reg season. but he has not been the dominant force during the post season.

Shut up. The guy hasnt had a bad season in his career and you're going to complain when you're in first place with a slow start from A-Rod. Sure he isn't worht $25 mil. No one is. But honestly, there are 100 more players in the league who haven't played up to theircontract before you pick on A-Rod.

[Jesse2]

Reese's catch was better. Jeter only gets more credit because he forgot how to stop running and fell into the stands, watch the video, the ball is borderline fair when jeter catches it.


Reeses catch (the link is at the bottom of the page, July 1st game and NYY): http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/multimedia/tp_archive.jsp?c_id=bos&ym=200407

jeter catch: http://youtube.com/watch?v=xcyNqCN7OGA&search=jeter

how many steps do you think reese would have taken to stop if the stands weren't there?

jeter really only took 2 MAYBE 3 steps before he hit that wall. he MIGHT have been able to stop, but it's not like it was absurd that he was still running 0.1 seconds after he caught a ball while running full speed.

some of you guys act like he ran for 1/4 of a mile just to make sportscenter.

[Scott Weber]

no he gets shit because for the amount we are paying him you would think he would play better.
he has been great during the reg season. but he has not been the dominant force during the post season.
ahhhhhgh you are why I hate Yankee fans and the organization in general.. Seriously. You're complaining about what many people say is the best overall player in baseball, or at least in the American League, and bitching and whining about him. You're so god damn fickle about your love/hate towards players. IGNORING THE FACT that A-Rod hit the living shit out of the ball in Seattle during the playoffs, A-Rod had an amazing 2004 ALDS (.421) against MIN in 2004, then an average one against Boston (.258) - God forbid he hits 30 points below his average over a 7 game stretch..he still hit 2 HRs in it - and then has a horrible series in last year's ALDS. All of a sudden, A-Rod is a choke artist in the playoffs, and for WHAT? The dude has a bad 5 game stretch and all of a sudden he's ridden into the ground.

Stop fucking complaining. You're so spoiled. gah, this shit makes me so angry.

[Jesse2]

ahhhhhgh you are why I hate Yankee fans and the organization in general.. Seriously. You're complaining about what many people say is the best overall player in baseball, or at least in the American League, and bitching and whining about him. You're so god damn fickle about your love/hate towards players. IGNORING THE FACT that A-Rod hit the living shit out of the ball in Seattle during the playoffs, A-Rod had an amazing 2004 ALDS (.421) against MIN in 2004, then an average one against Boston (.258) - God forbid he hits 30 points below his average over a 7 game stretch..he still hit 2 HRs in it - and then has a horrible series in last year's ALDS. All of a sudden, A-Rod is a choke artist in the playoffs, and for WHAT? The dude has a bad 5 game stretch and all of a sudden he's ridden into the ground.

Stop fucking complaining. You're so spoiled. gah, this shit makes me so angry.

Well unfortunately that's what happens when fans get spoiled... they end up expecting way too much. I have been fortunate enough (if you could call it that) to watch a hell of a lot of losing between the teams I like. After a while you start looking for positives instead of only settling for perfection.

[hockey0001]

ahhhhhgh you are why I hate Yankee fans and the organization in general.. Seriously. You're complaining about what many people say is the best overall player in baseball, or at least in the American League, and bitching and whining about him. You're so god damn fickle about your love/hate towards players. IGNORING THE FACT that A-Rod hit the living shit out of the ball in Seattle during the playoffs, A-Rod had an amazing 2004 ALDS (.421) against MIN in 2004, then an average one against Boston (.258) - God forbid he hits 30 points below his average over a 7 game stretch..he still hit 2 HRs in it - and then has a horrible series in last year's ALDS. All of a sudden, A-Rod is a choke artist in the playoffs, and for WHAT? The dude has a bad 5 game stretch and all of a sudden he's ridden into the ground.

Stop fucking complaining. You're so spoiled. gah, this shit makes me so angry.

i think the perception of A-rod being a choke artist comes from the Boston series. In the last 4 games, if I remember correctly, he did virtually nothing (neither did many of the Yankees though). Combine that with the greatest team choke in sports history, and what you get is what you see now. Also, I think that his stats in close and late situations are well below his career averages. Once the perception of a choke artist exists its hard to get rid of it untill championship is won or he has an amazing postseason. The few times he does come up clutch will be seen as exceptions to the rule and quickly forgotton, whereas the times he fails in the clutch will be remembered since they support the theory.

[hockey0001]

how many steps do you think reese would have taken to stop if the stands weren't there?

jeter really only took 2 MAYBE 3 steps before he hit that wall. he MIGHT have been able to stop, but it's not like it was absurd that he was still running 0.1 seconds after he caught a ball while running full speed.

some of you guys act like he ran for 1/4 of a mile just to make sportscenter.

Pokey might have needed one maybe 2 steps more to stop, but thats not the point. The point is that Jeter's catch by itself is not all that spectacular. The reason people say that it was great is because of what occurred after, had he not been off balance and been able to stop no one would remeber the play. Pokey had to run further to get his ball, and in my opinion it was a more difficult catch and its a ball that Jeter probably doesnt get to.

[Scott Weber]

i think the perception of A-rod being a choke artist comes from the Boston series. In the last 4 games, if I remember correctly, he did virtually nothing (neither did many of the Yankees though). Combine that with the greatest team choke in sports history, and what you get is what you see now. Also, I think that his stats in close and late situations are well below his career averages. Once the perception of a choke artist exists its hard to get rid of it untill championship is won or he has an amazing postseason. The few times he does come up clutch will be seen as exceptions to the rule and quickly forgotton, whereas the times he fails in the clutch will be remembered since they support the theory.
ESPN has a statistic for this, it's called Close And Late - results in the 7th inning or later with the batting team either ahead by one run, tied or with the potential tying run at least on deck.

A-Rod, over the past 3 years, is hitting .276 in this. Somewhat below his overall average, but it's not monumental...

[Jesse2]

Pokey might have needed one maybe 2 steps more to stop, but thats not the point. The point is that Jeter's catch by itself is not all that spectacular. The reason people say that it was great is because of what occurred after, had he not been off balance and been able to stop no one would remeber the play. Pokey had to run further to get his ball, and in my opinion it was a more difficult catch and its a ball that Jeter probably doesnt get to.

you can go from running full speed to stopped in one to maybe two steps? I'd like to see that.

also, you can't say it was a better catch JUST because he ran farther. it's impossible to know which ball was hit higher, for example. Posada could catch a ball in the outfield if you hit it high enough.

[Split2nd]

bigmike, you're one of the more knowledgable guys on here, but that argument of him being a choke artist because of "Game winning hits" is ridiculous... by that logic, going by close and late, Andruw Jones I believe was the best hitter in the league last year, and we all know that just isn't true.

A Homer in the first inning is just as valuable as one in the 8th. People ignore the fact that the team WOULDN'T BE in the close situation in the 9th had "Choke Artist x player" contributed earlier in the game and/or series.

And forever said Jeter has a better career Average and OBP, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but those aren't the only things in baseball. Slugging percentage is also extremely important.

Career

ARod .306/.385

Jeter .315/.387

Jeter's not head and shoulders above ARod in either, they're both very similar, but ARod crushes Jeter in slugging.

And I meant defense at SS, not 3B.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

A Homer in the first inning is just as valuable as one in the 8th. People ignore the fact that the team WOULDN'T BE in the close situation in the 9th had "Choke Artist x player" contributed earlier in the game and/or series.

This is actually being discussed amongst sabermetric people. (not me.) If you read up on Win Probability it says that a homerun in the 8th would be more significant because there is less time for a team to come back from it, or it helps your team come back into a game. On the other side a homerun in the first gives the other team more time to come back.

This (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/crucial-situations) and This (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-one-about-win-probability/) are good reads on the topic if you wish to explore.

Also, for good measure (http://www.redsox2000.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=26) :)

[hockey0001]

A Homer in the first inning is just as valuable as one in the 8th. People ignore the fact that the team WOULDN'T BE in the close situation in the 9th had "Choke Artist x player" contributed earlier in the game and/or series.



It is just as valuable but theres less pressure around it. An at bat in a tie game in the first inning has a lot less pressure than an at bat in the 8th inning in a tie game.

[hockey0001]

you can go from running full speed to stopped in one to maybe two steps? I'd like to see that.

also, you can't say it was a better catch JUST because he ran farther. it's impossible to know which ball was hit higher, for example. Posada could catch a ball in the outfield if you hit it high enough.

Where did i say that I could? I said based on the video it appears that Reese needed about another step or two to stop.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

It is just as valuable but theres less pressure around it. An at bat in a tie game in the first inning has a lot less pressure than an at bat in the 8th inning in a tie game.
read the articles I posted. You dont have to read the whole thing to fully understand it, but even reading little pieces you see that you almost nailed what sabermetricians are saying.

[hockey0001]

read the articles I posted. You dont have to read the whole thing to fully understand it, but even reading little pieces you see that you almost nailed what sabermetricians are saying.

i was going to get to that in a little bit once i had time to, they sound interesting

[mikeford]

dunn is batting .220 this season.

oof.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

He is also slugging .533 with an .381obp.

[Split2nd]

He is also slugging .533 with an .381obp.
Oof.

[hockey0001]

Oof.

he has an ops of .914, which is pretty good

[NetNerdsRevenge]

he has an ops of .914, which is pretty good
my problem with OPS when you simply add the two stats together you leave out the fact that obp is more valuable than slg. a person with a .400 obp and .400 slg is more valuable than someone with a .350 obp and a .450 slg.

Its a good stat, but I think sometimes its a little misleading.

[GoWaitInTheCar]

..cause I have him on my Fantasy Team?

[Split2nd]

he has an ops of .914, which is pretty good
/sarcasm

[LeftWideOpen]

Joe Buck and Tim McCarver on Fox right now .

Buck: Who else in this league would rather have at SS or at the plate when the game is on the line?
McCarver: Jeter transcends numbers more then any other player in the league.

I rest my case. You can't be underrated when broadcasters have visions of you while making love.

[mikeford]

unless joe buck and tim mccarver fuck each other, theres no way i believe those dudes get laid.

[xearlynovemberx]

unless joe buck and tim mccarver fuck each other, theres no way i believe those dudes get laid.

ahahha i love it

[LeftWideOpen]

unless joe buck and tim mccarver fuck each other, theres no way i believe those dudes get laid.

well what i was insinuating was that there broadcasts together are the closest they get to making love.

[Split2nd]

unless joe buck and tim mccarver fuck each other, theres no way i believe those dudes get laid.

Does Derek Jeter's balls in his mouth count?

[mikeford]

according to bill clinton, oral isnt sex.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

according to bill clinton, oral isnt sex.
that depends what your definition of isnt, is.

[preppyak]

Joe Buck and Tim McCarver on Fox right now .

Buck: Who else in this league would rather have at SS or at the plate when the game is on the line?
McCarver: Jeter transcends numbers more then any other player in the league.

I rest my case. You can't be underrated when broadcasters have visions of you while making love.
unless joe buck and tim mccarver fuck each other, theres no way i believe those dudes get laid.
hahaha