Say Anything II: You don't have opinions, you just have Nay Nay.

[Chemical Swirl]

Discuss Say Anything in here.

Personally, one of my favorite bands, yet, their newer material is making me skeptical, yet, the anticipation is high.

Anyhoo, their newest cd, "Say Anything" shall be coming out November 3rd, and you can pre order it now on itunes.

http://www.absolutepunk.net/gallery/files/1/0/8/3/dxc__iw2371680.jpg

[Stage Combat]

I love the title. So much.
Because you guys don't have opinions. You just have nay nay.


In before the "FUCK MAX BEMIS!!!!1!!!1!!11!!!!!!!!!"

Would also love to make the third thread.

[cirerelleum]

not a bad title. dibs on thread 3

[TheSkyline]

Yeah, dig the title. Pumped for the new album.

[Chemical Swirl]

Max Bemis still aggravates me, but I love the music so much.

[SophGod]

i'll go ahead and say it.

fuck max bemis.

[CarryOn09]

seeing them on wednesday. tour opener at HoB anaheim!

[FueledByRock]

Title made me laugh. I don't know how funny it'll be after another 5k posts, but who knows.

[yoyostring]

i'll go ahead and say it.

fuck max bemis.

& i'll go ahead and say it.

max bemis is the man.

[x togepi x]

Title made me laugh. I don't know how funny it'll be after another 5k posts, but who knows.

i'm sure evan will still be saying stupid shit in 5k posts so it will still be relevant.

[briewer]

So this is dumb.

[aoftbsten]

Great title.

[Chris92]

In Defense of the Genre is one of the best albums ever...but, while 'Hate Everyone' is good, I'm kinda skeptical about the upcoming S/T release.

[God damner]

I have a feeling this record will fall between ...is a real boy (which is my favorite record of all time) and in defense (which I consider to be great) in awesomeness. Which will kick ass. Max is the man, I have never identified with anyone more. Like...anyone...ever. Hope it's AOTY, so far Daisy's got that shit covered.

[briewer]

In Defense of the Genre is one of the best albums ever...but, while 'Hate Everyone' is good, I'm kinda skeptical about the upcoming S/T release.
Word?

[Chris92]

Yeah...either Daisy or Aim & Ignite for me. Two Tongues, the new TBS and the new Thursday (wow feels like forever ago) were a little disappointing (esp. Thursday) & Nothing Personal just wasn't quite good enough. Hope that Say Anything makes the short list.....

[Chris92]

Word?
WTF??

[Matt Chylak]

add the track titles and times under the album art

[briewer]

WTF??
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Word&defid=1481081

[Burn That Shit]

New Thursday has been my favorite album of the year.

[SophGod]

Yeah...either Daisy or Aim & Ignite for me. Two Tongues, the new TBS and the new Thursday (wow feels like forever ago) were a little disappointing (esp. Thursday) & Nothing Personal just wasn't quite good enough. Hope that Say Anything makes the short list.....

there was nothing disappointing at all about Common Existence. Definitely AOTY for me. so far at least.

[Matt Chylak]

for max bemis: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nay+nay

[Chris92]

Eh..something just didn't click with Common Existence for me. Had some good songs, but it didn't get many listens. I love all their other albums...FC is my 3rd fav. of all time. Idk why I didn't like CE though...

[Chemical Swirl]

I'm glad people like the title. When I made the one Brand New thread, people hated it.

[Sventhegreat]

Why don't people like Max Bemis?

[Chemical Swirl]

Why don't people like Max Bemis?

He's an arrogant prick.

[NateFoundGlory]

And the Hate Train has left the station.

For some reason as much as I love ...IARB and liked IDOTG, I'm not all that excited for this new one really. Hopefully I'm proven wrong.

[Burn That Shit]

for max bemis: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nay+nay

I pretty sure Evan added the third definition.

[Baby for Pree]

Why don't people like Max Bemis?
He's written racist, sexist, and arrogant songs.
He thinks it's his job to "defend the genre."
He shits all over people who don't like Say Anything by demonizing them as "elitists."
He does that and somehow has the nerve to bash Kings of Leon, as if he's any better than them.
He coined the term "nay nay," which means any opinion that is different than his. His fans repeat it like parrots.
His songwriting skills have been steadily decreasing since IARB and have now gone in the shitter with this new record.
He once told his fans to tell a teenage girl to "go die" when she said she didn't think Sherri DuPree was pretty.
He doesn't have a beard.

[Sventhegreat]

He's an arrogant prick.

Who isn't?

[Chemical Swirl]

He's written racist, sexist, and arrogant songs.
He thinks it's his job to "defend the genre."
He shits all over people who don't like Say Anything by demonizing them as "elitists."
He does that and somehow has the nerve to bash Kings of Leon, as if he's any better than them.
He coined the term "nay nay," which means any opinion that is different than his. His fans repeat it like parrots.
His songwriting skills have been steadily decreasing since IARB and have now gone in the shitter with this new record.
He once told his fans to tell a teenage girl to "go die" when she said she didn't think Sherri DuPree was pretty.
He doesn't have a beard.

You forgot that his wife is kind of a hoe

[stonecoldfox]

I'm thinking it will be like if Is a real boy and In defense of the Genre met and they fucked,,,,,and then their child met ...was a real boy and they fucked, that's how this will sound.....this album will be the product of baby fucking.

[Baby for Pree]

Who isn't?
$10 says you talked shit about Kanye West for his arrogance when he interrupted Taylor Swift at the VMA's.

[Matt Chylak]

I'm glad people like the title. When I made the one Brand New thread, people hated it.

it wasn't the best title. add the track names and times!

[Chemical Swirl]

it wasn't the best title. add the track names and times!

I can't find em anywhere! once I do, I will!

[Matt Chylak]

I can't find em anywhere! once I do, I will!

jason's twitter has a link to a picture of the cd he got

[eleven eleven]

Yeah...either Daisy or Aim & Ignite for me. Two Tongues, the new TBS and the new Thursday (wow feels like forever ago) were a little disappointing (esp. Thursday) & Nothing Personal just wasn't quite good enough. Hope that Say Anything makes the short list.....
How can you like Daisy, Aim and Ignite, ...and All Time Low?

[Sventhegreat]

$10 says you talked shit about Kanye West for his arrogance when he interrupted Taylor Swift at the VMA's.

Of course I did, Kayne is dumb nay nay and I love me some T-baby.

[Baby for Pree]

Of course I did, Kayne is dumb nay nay and I love me some T-baby.
I'm not sure why you say readily forgive Bemis' arrogance but not Kanye's.

[Sventhegreat]

I'm not sure why you say readily forgive Bemis' arrogance but not Kanye's.

I didn't say that at all. I just happen to like Bemis so I don't generally talk shit about him.

[Baby for Pree]

I didn't say that at all. I just happen to like Bemis so I don't generally talk shit about him.
"I like Phil Spector. He's a good producer. Who cares if he killed someone. He's a pretty cool dude."
-Sventhegreat

[Sventhegreat]

"I like Max Bemis. He's a good musician. Who cares if he's a crazy bipolar mofo. He's a pretty cool dude."
-Sventhegreat

I guess I would have to agree to that.

[Baby for Pree]

I guess I would have to agree to that.
Pretty sad.

[Sventhegreat]

Pretty sad.

How is that exactly?

[Charles777]

Pretty stoked for this. Sorry if it's been posted.

http://twitter.com/maxbemis/status/4792223333

[Burn That Shit]

How is that exactly?

Because it's, in essence, ignorance.

[Baby for Pree]

How is that exactly?
You're excusing Max Bemis being a dick just because you like the music he makes. You could at the very least acknowledge he's an asshole. You don't have to like him to like his music.

[Sventhegreat]

Because it's, in essence, ignorance.

Because I like a band's music?

[Sventhegreat]

You're excusing Max Bemis being a dick just because you like the music he makes. You could at the very least acknowledge he's an asshole. You don't have to like him to like his music.

Where exactly did I say that I believed Max to be/not to be an asshole? No where.

[Baby for Pree]

Where exactly did I say that I believed Max to be/not to be an asshole? No where.
You asked why people hated him. Then, when someone told you why, you excused it. Either you were being facetious or you don't think he's an asshole.

[sleepyseanzzz]

i think max is great but i was kind of turned off when me and 20 other people got to go in early at the palladium in worcester, mass 2 years ago for what was supposed to be an acoustic set but instead we saw two songs from the soundcheck which was still great, but he faced the drummer the entire time and didnt look at us once and afterwards the rest of the band hung out with the 20 or so of us and he dissapeared, i felt awkward because the dumb fat scene girls there were asking jake all these questions about max when obviously he wasnt there and jake as well as the others probably have to go through that every day (reminds me of my band by D12 where people only care about eminem as opposed to the others)

lyrically i think he is great as i can relate but that one situation kind of turned me off although it was a great show that made up for it

[Sventhegreat]

You asked why people hated him. Then, when someone told you why, you excused it. Either you were being facetious or you don't think he's an asshole.

Yeah just because I was curious. I never excused anything, merely questioned.

[Chemical Swirl]

I guess I would have to agree to that.

Wait, so was Bemis the only crazy drug addict bipolar dude to ever pick up a guitar!?!?!?!?

[Mistle]

I'm thinking it will be like if Is a real boy and In defense of the Genre met and they fucked,,,,,and then their child met ...was a real boy and they fucked, that's how this will sound.....this album will be the product of baby fucking.Yeah.

[Sventhegreat]

Wait, so was Bemis the only crazy drug addict bipolar dude to ever pick up a guitar!?!?!?!?

YEAH BRO!!!! You going to the Hinder concert tonight too, brooo?!

[Eostre]

Who gives a shit what he's like?

Say Anything's music is awesome, that's all I care about.

[pennie]

He's written racist, sexist, and arrogant songs.
He thinks it's his job to "defend the genre."
He shits all over people who don't like Say Anything by demonizing them as "elitists."
He does that and somehow has the nerve to bash Kings of Leon, as if he's any better than them.
He coined the term "nay nay," which means any opinion that is different than his. His fans repeat it like parrots.
His songwriting skills have been steadily decreasing since IARB and have now gone in the shitter with this new record.
He once told his fans to tell a teenage girl to "go die" when she said she didn't think Sherri DuPree was pretty.
He doesn't have a beard.

...What?

[Chemical Swirl]

YEAH BRO!!!! You going to the Hinder concert tonight too, brooo?!

NAH BRO TOO BUSY GOING TO SEE ADTR AND TDWP BRO AND PLAY SOME BRO PONG WHILE WE CHUGGA CHUGGA CHUGGA BEERS AND THEN SLAMDANCE OUT OUR AGGRESSION TO BROXCORE MUSIC. Bro.

[sleepyseanzzz]

...What?

he tweeted how beautiful his wife was as he often does and i guess some young girl said she was ugly and that she was prettier, most likely a joke, but max then tweeted the girls name and told everyone to tell her she should die, and since many people worship him they followed

[softhands]

I won't let them take you, hell no, no, no.

[jmirand1]

He's written racist, sexist, and arrogant songs.
He thinks it's his job to "defend the genre."
He shits all over people who don't like Say Anything by demonizing them as "elitists."
He does that and somehow has the nerve to bash Kings of Leon, as if he's any better than them.
He coined the term "nay nay," which means any opinion that is different than his. His fans repeat it like parrots.
His songwriting skills have been steadily decreasing since IARB and have now gone in the shitter with this new record.
He once told his fans to tell a teenage girl to "go die" when she said she didn't think Sherri DuPree was pretty.
He doesn't have a beard.

Most of this is true. Also, in his song "Admit it!!!" he criticizes people for criticizing people. Blindly hypocritical? That always bothered me...

However, I still love Say Anything's music and Max's songwriting, and I can forgive Max's obnoxiousness for the same reason I forgive Kanye's: If I was famous, I would be a thousand times worse.

[jmirand1]

i think max is great but i was kind of turned off when me and 20 other people got to go in early at the palladium in worcester, mass 2 years ago for what was supposed to be an acoustic set but instead we saw two songs from the soundcheck which was still great, but he faced the drummer the entire time and didnt look at us once and afterwards the rest of the band hung out with the 20 or so of us and he dissapeared, i felt awkward because the dumb fat scene girls there were asking jake all these questions about max when obviously he wasnt there and jake as well as the others probably have to go through that every day (reminds me of my band by D12 where people only care about eminem as opposed to the others)

lyrically i think he is great as i can relate but that one situation kind of turned me off although it was a great show that made up for it

He was a dick when I saw them too. This was on their co-headlining tour with Saves the Day in 2007. Say Anything played last. Max kept whining about having a runny nose and they only played about 7 songs total, compared to STD who played around 15. Also, he seemed to have a very condescending attitude toward the crowd and they didn't do an encore (though Max warned us there wouldn't be an encore when he left the stage...a lot of people didn't believe him.)

That being said, I can't wait for the new record.

[Analog Rebellion]

He's written racist, sexist, and arrogant songs.
He thinks it's his job to "defend the genre."
He shits all over people who don't like Say Anything by demonizing them as "elitists."
He does that and somehow has the nerve to bash Kings of Leon, as if he's any better than them.
He coined the term "nay nay," which means any opinion that is different than his. His fans repeat it like parrots.
His songwriting skills have been steadily decreasing since IARB and have now gone in the shitter with this new record.
He once told his fans to tell a teenage girl to "go die" when she said she didn't think Sherri DuPree was pretty.
He doesn't have a beard.
I didn't know any of this. Crazy.

[Baby for Pree]

Oh my god. If that's serious then it's a disgusting use of his "power"What a horrible man.
Yup.

[bandrewes]

who loves property? i do..
especially the talking bit gota love bem dog
BIG LOVE :drew:

[jjjkman]

I like how this went from a "Say Anything" thread to a "Lets bash on Max Bemis" thread.

[stonecoldfox]

Since when is it a crime for a rock star to be an asshole? I thought it was pretty much a prerequisite...

I don't give two shits about whether or not max is a good person or not, he makes (some) great music sometimes....can't we all just appreciate that?

[Chemical Swirl]

who loves property? i do..
especially the talking bit gota love bem dog
BIG LOVE :drew:

:-|

[Chemical Swirl]

Since when is it a crime for a rock star to be an asshole? I thought it was pretty much a prerequisite...

I don't give two shits about whether or not max is a good person or not, he makes (some) great music sometimes....can't we all just appreciate that?

Only these guys are aloud be assholes.

http://sendmedeadflowers.com/uploaded_images/rolling_stones_011-713803.jpg

[francescaa]

The one time I met Max he was incredibly awkward and obvious did not want to be there talking to fans. The rest of the band were lovely though. At the end of the day, he is a talented guy and I like the songs that he writes so I'll support him as an artist.

[Stage Combat]

I have never heard a Say Anything song I didn't like.

[Burn That Shit]

I like how this went from a "Say Anything" thread to a "Lets bash on Max Bemis" thread.

Max Bemis is part of Say Anything, and therefore I think discussion of his arrogance and idiocy is fine for a Say Anything thread.

[God damner]

Who isn't?

FTW of all time.

[stonecoldfox]

Only these guys are aloud be assholes.

http://sendmedeadflowers.com/uploaded_images/rolling_stones_011-713803.jpg

well given, I mean just look at their hats. People with hats that nice can be the biggest pricks in the world but no one can say anything because...damn look at those cool hats

[Chemical Swirl]

well given, I mean just look at their hats. People with hats that nice can be the biggest pricks in the world but no one can say anything because...damn look at those cool hats

Do you even know who those guys are? If it weren't for them and The Beatles and The Who, Say Anything wouldn't be.

[Stage Combat]

Have you ever heard a Say Anything song?

Almost all of them.

[Illuminate]

Their new music will suck because Max is whipped. "Did it hurt when you fell from heaven girl"- Crush'd (new song). Plus they shaved their beards which is weird. The major flaw I have with Max is that I feel every "dark" not love song he's writing is just not genuine and it's too apparent.

-- I love IARB and actually enjoyed IDOTG a lot, but it had no lasting value with me.

[inasaltwateroom]

say anything is my favorite band ever. so. with respect to all the bull shit ive read in this thread about max bemis and say anything sucking i, without further ado, can without a doubt, proudly scream to you all from my digital soapbox, go fuck yourselves...unless of course youre on my side. then were friends.

[Stage Combat]

Do you even know who those guys are? If it weren't for them and The Beatles and The Who, Say Anything wouldn't be.

I see less of a Stones influence on Bemis's music than either of the other artists.

[stonecoldfox]

Do you even know who those guys are? If it weren't for them and The Beatles and The Who, Say Anything wouldn't be.

Haha, so you assume because I'm sticking up for say anything on ap.net that I have an abysmal taste in music and don't know any of the classics? ...that's generally a pretty safe assumption....and yeah, you called my bluff, I'm terrible with faces. I know I'm going to feel like a complete jackass when you tell me who they are.

[Chemical Swirl]

say anything is my favorite band ever. so. with respect to all the bull shit ive read in this thread about max bemis and say anything sucking i, without further ado, can without a doubt, proudly scream to you all from my digital soapbox, go fuck yourselves...unless of course youre on my side. then were friends.

Edgy.

I see less of a Stones influence on Bemis's music than either of the other artists.

I definitely see it when it comes to attitude. The Stones were bad ass.

[yoyostring]

I like how this went from a "Say Anything" thread to a "Lets bash on Max Bemis" thread.

that's what Say Anything threads pretty much are..

[Chemical Swirl]

Haha, so you assume because I'm sticking up for say anything on ap.net that I have an abysmal taste in music and don't know any of the classics? ...that's generally a pretty safe assumption....and yeah, you called my bluff, I'm terrible with faces. I know I'm going to feel like a complete jackass when you tell me who they are.

This is either ripe with sarcasm, or you really didn't know it was these guys

http://www.100xr.com/100_XR/Artists/R/Rolling_Stones/The.Rolling.Stones.jpg

[Stage Combat]

I definitely see it when it comes to attitude. The Stones were bad ass.

Yeah, and Bemis isn't.

[Illuminate]

Yeah, and Bemis isn't.

He was until he got married, wrote too many love songs, started taking his meds, got a five year old haircut, and shaved his beard. Some artists write better when they're truly upset and pissed at the world, Max is one of them. He's a good songwriter given the right time. Decent one otherwise.

[stonecoldfox]

This is either ripe with sarcasm, or you really didn't know it was these guys

http://www.100xr.com/100_XR/Artists/R/Rolling_Stones/The.Rolling.Stones.jpg

haha, it was a little bit of both. I realized who they were as I was hitting the "submit reply" button. I honestly didn't recognize them at first (I'm just a kid, cut me a break) So I littered my post with sarcasm to make it seem like I knew what I was talking about...

[sammyboy516]

He's an arrogant prick.


...then you're the queen of the damned.

[inasaltwateroom]

...then you're the queen of the damned.


hahaha. awesome.

[Stage Combat]

Hey, I'm the crazy one here!

[Lemmi!]

i'm dying of a deep regret...

[Stage Combat]

But I can't stand these nights I've spent, alone, awake, begging...

[NateFoundGlory]

say anything is my favorite band ever. so. with respect to all the bull shit ive read in this thread about max bemis and say anything sucking i, without further ado, can without a doubt, proudly scream to you all from my digital soapbox, go fuck yourselves...unless of course youre on my side. then were friends.


Can't...decipher...sarcasm...from fanboy...

I kid. ;D

[Lemmi!]

tear my face apart like cheap leggings...

[yoyostring]

....sorry my love i'm gone, keep egging this on. i'm gone i'm gone i'm goneeee

[Stage Combat]

PACK MY SHIT UP AND GO, I'M GETTING WASTED

x

[yoyostring]

I'm disavowed! HEY HEY! disavowed! HEY HEY!

[Stage Combat]

Proud to shun their know-how.

[sammyboy516]

hahaha. awesome.

Haha thanks. He walked right into it.

[yoyostring]

why won't you wait for me, why aren't you waiting for me NEVER AGAIN!

[Lemmi!]

and as our single climbs the charts i feed on their virgin blood from their bleeding hearts..

[The Personist]

Haha, the lyrics being recited in here only underscore how bad a writer Max is. "legging/egging" is a terrible rhyme.

[yoyostring]

i mean nothing, only nothing. there's nothing i can do about thattt

[wroteurname]

I don't think they're supposed to be a rhyme pair.

[Lemmi!]

i've accepted my place in the back, this is not the place or time to snap..

[The Personist]

They are a rhyming pair. It's not a perfect endrhyme, but it's blatant and stupid.

[yoyostring]

the circle torn apart, i used to have a heartttt

[wroteurname]

k.

[tawtaw]

I like how people take everything Max does/says so seriously.

[Lemmi!]

wait a second, i can't write the same damn song over and over again!!

[BottleRocket]

werewolf bar mitzvah, spooky scary, boys becoming men, men becoming wolves

[The Personist]

I like how people take everything Max does/says so seriously.
It's funnier when they worship him.

[yoyostring]

and the record begins with a song of rebellion...

[Chemical Swirl]

I like how people take everything Max does/says so seriously.

I like how he told a girl to "go die" after she said she didn't think his hoe of a wife was pretty.

[tawtaw]

I like how he told a girl to "go die" after she said she didn't think his hoe of a wife was pretty.

Exactly what I was talking about.

[The Personist]

Exactly what I was talking about.
Just because it wasn't meant seriously doesn't make it OK.

[wroteurname]

Just cause it was Max Bemis doesn't make it not okay.

[Stage Combat]

I think I'll medicate this RAGE!

[The Personist]

Just cause it was Max Bemis doesn't make it not okay.
Telling a girl to go die like that is unacceptable, no matter who does it.

Like, doing heroin is bad and I don't condone it, even if Peter Doherty is the one shooting up.

[tawtaw]

Just because it wasn't meant seriously doesn't make it OK.

It's not okay to make passive, joke statements?

[yoyostring]

it's strange i'm skinny when i'm standing but i'm Buddha when i sit, and if i'm truly so enlightened why'd i waste your time on it

[wroteurname]

Telling a girl to go die like that is unacceptable, no matter who does it.

Like, doing heroin is bad and I don't condone it, even if Peter Doherty is the one shooting up.

Not saying it's right or wrong, just not something that needs to be put under a microscope.

[The Personist]

It's not okay to make passive, joke statements?
HOw is that passive? Go die isn't passive at all.

[yoyostring]

Not saying it's right or wrong, just not something that needs to be put under a microscope.

this.

[Chemical Swirl]

It's not okay to make passive, joke statements?

Nope. It's not. Go make a race-inspired joke to an African American male. When he kicks the shit out of you, just tell him it was a passive statement.

[tawtaw]

HOw is that passive? Go die isn't passive at all.

You don't know anyone who says it?

I think it's a bit ridiculous that you're acting as if he legitimately wanted the girl to die.

[tawtaw]

Nope. It's not. Go make a race-inspired joke to an African American male. When he kicks the shit out of you, just tell him it was a passive statement.

Not even the same thing.

[Chemical Swirl]

Not even the same thing.

It could be.

[tawtaw]

It could be.

What?

[Chemical Swirl]

What?

SCOTTY DON'T!

x

[The Personist]

Not saying it's right or wrong, just not something that needs to be put under a microscope.

Well, if this person is being called a hero and looked up to by tons of people, their actions are that much more important. Pete Doherty isn't my hero by any stretch, so I don't scrutinize him similarly. If Max is your hero, though, his actions become that much more important. Not saying he's your hero, but that there are people here who look up to him like that and deny him the kind of scrutiny that I would apply to anyone I so greatly looked up to (for instance, Frank O'Hara).

[tawtaw]

SCOTTY DON'T!

x

This is causing me serious psychological horror.

[Chemical Swirl]

This is causing me serious psychological horror.

Don't lose your hair over it.

[yoyostring]

this game is hard but addicting..http://www.canabalt.com/ my best is 2114m so far

[crackedthesky]

Telling someone to go die is inappropriate. But, anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of Max Bemis should know that if you're going to be a bitch to him, he's going to be one motherfuck of a bitch back.
Besides, why is it okay for him to tell someone to go die in a song, but if he does it as an offhand remark, it's like, a mortal sin?

Don't want to condone his actions or anything, but it's not fair to act like he was way out of line when he was on the sharp end of the stick to begin with.

[The Personist]

Telling someone to go die is inappropriate. But, anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of Max Bemis should know that if you're going to be a bitch to him, he's going to be one motherfuck of a bitch back.
Besides, why is it okay for him to tell someone to go die in a song, but if he does it as an offhand remark, it's like, a mortal sin?

Don't want to condone his actions or anything, but it's not fair to act like he was way out of line when he was on the sharp end of the stick to begin with.
It's not ok for him to do it in a song, though in fairness, doing it in a work of art is different than doing it as your own self.

Also, just because you're abrasive doesn't mean there aren't things that are over the line.

[wroteurname]

Telling someone to go die is inappropriate. But, anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of Max Bemis should know that if you're going to be a bitch to him, he's going to be one motherfuck of a bitch back.
Besides, why is it okay for him to tell someone to go die in a song, but if he does it as an offhand remark, it's like, a mortal sin?

Don't want to condone his actions or anything, but it's not fair to act like he was way out of line when he was on the sharp end of the stick to begin with.

Check and mate.

[tawtaw]

this game is hard but addicting..http://www.canabalt.com/ my best is 2114m so far

3516m 8-)

[kearn1tm]

Telling someone to go die is inappropriate. But, anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of Max Bemis should know that if you're going to be a bitch to him, he's going to be one motherfuck of a bitch back.
Besides, why is it okay for him to tell someone to go die in a song, but if he does it as an offhand remark, it's like, a mortal sin?

Don't want to condone his actions or anything, but it's not fair to act like he was way out of line when he was on the sharp end of the stick to begin with.

She's a teenager. He's an adult in his late twenties. He's a pathetic, juvenile and insecure fool.

You're absolutely trying to condone his actions. That's what this entire post has been; an apologetic justification for verbally assaulting a kid and rallying a legion of others to do so as well. It's disgusting.

[kearn1tm]

Random Musings:

1.) David, I love you.

2.) "Nay Nay" is the most ridiculous and atrocious "catchphrase" I've heard in quite some time.

[yoyostring]

3516m 8-)

holy snap..i stopped playing it's making me angry haha

[The Personist]

She's a teenager. He's an adult in his late twenties. He's a pathetic, juvenile and insecure fool.

You're absolutely trying to condone his actions. That's what this entire post has been; an apologetic justification for verbally assaulting a kid and rallying a legion of others to do so as well. It's disgusting.
This.
Random Musings:

1.) David, I love you.

2.) "Nay Nay" is the most ridiculous and atrocious "catchphrase" I've heard in quite some time.
I love you too, even if you won't use your position of obvious superiority to validate my anglophilia.

[crackedthesky]

I'm merely asking questions. He's not rude, he's bipolar. It's a mental disorder, look it up.
I can see sense in David's reply, though. I'm entirely unfamiliar with the situation. But if I was going to put someone like Max on the spot like that, I'd probably laugh if he told me to go die. It's his style of song, I would be stupid to expect anything less, especially if you're insulting someone very close to him.

[yoyostring]

sucks to think that if the release date didn't change i'd have this album already

[kearn1tm]

This.

I love you too, even if you won't use your position of obvious superiority to validate my anglophilia.

I love sweater vests and frilly dress shirts. I too adore the English. I even dig Pete Doherty...as something fuckable.

[BottleRocket]

While we're on the subject... I remember I saw that on his twitter. I wouldn't really give much thought to it if he told her to go die, but he specifically asked his followers to project hate on her too and that's just an abuse of power and all around shitty thing to do.

[kearn1tm]

I'm merely asking questions. He's not rude, he's bipolar. It's a mental disorder, look it up.
I can see sense in David's reply, though. I'm entirely unfamiliar with the situation. But if I was going to put someone like Max on the spot like that, I'd probably laugh if he told me to go die. It's his style of song, I would be stupid to expect anything less, especially if you're insulting someone very close to him.

Do you know anything about mental illnesses, specifically Bipolar disorder? You can't hide behind mental afflictions as crutches for mean-spirited actions. Moreover, Bi-Polar doesn't mean the sufferer loses all sense of social etiquette, rather, their overall mood is altered involuntarily and prone to shift periodically. I suffer from a myriad of anxiety and mental disorders as a result of PTSD. Can I be a vicious asshole to kids too? Only if I write I Can Get Sexual Too, right? If I recorded that, then it would be okay.

You're 21. You're far too old to be trying to make up excuses for vile people to do vile things because they make art you like.

[crackedthesky]

While we're on the subject... I remember I saw that on his twitter. I wouldn't really give much thought to it if he told her to go die, but he specifically asked his followers to project hate on her too and that's just an abuse of power and all around shitty thing to do.

I agree completely with this.

[The Personist]

I love sweater vests and frilly dress shirts. I too adore the English. I even dig Pete Doherty...as something fuckable.
Carl is prettier than Pete...but I'm still being Pete for halloween. It's going to be ridiculous. My friend is being Carl. we're going to start drinking at 8AM so we're adequately Libertinesque.

[crackedthesky]

Do you know anything about mental illnesses, specifically Bipolar disorder? You can't hide behind mental afflictions as crutches for mean-spirited actions. Moreover, Bi-Polar doesn't mean the sufferer loses all sense of social etiquette, rather, their overall mood is altered involuntarily and prone to shift periodically. I suffer from a myriad of anxiety and mental disorders as a result of PTSD. Can I be a vicious asshole to kids too? Only if I write I Can Get Sexual Too, right? If I recorded that, then it would be okay.

You're 21. You're far too old to be trying to make up excuses for vile people to do vile things because they make art you like.

I was asking a question. This thread is the first I'm ever hearing of this.
What Max did was wrong. What that girl did was stupid. Max getting on Twitter and asking fans to prolong it was wrong and stupid. That's the assessment I've come to.

[Chemical Swirl]

Can you feel the Nay tonighttttt

[x togepi x]

I was asking a question. This thread is the first I'm ever hearing of this.
What Max did was wrong. What that girl did was stupid. Max getting on Twitter and asking fans to prolong it was wrong and stupid. That's the assessment I've come to.

This is why i don't like the dude. I can't think of many people in bands of that stature that would actually do that. Dude is mad insecure.


but yeah, i know a lot of about bipolar disorder, not everyone who has it acts like max. that's a lame cop out.

[dancelukedance]

Fuck twitter

[The Personist]

This is why i don't like the dude. I can't think of many people in bands of that stature that would actually do that. Dude is mad insecure.


but yeah, i know a lot of about bipolar disorder, not everyone who has it acts like max. that's a lame cop out.
This. My best friend has bipolar disorder and he's never once done anything remotely like Max Bemis.

[GuitarR0cker1]

I know someone with bipolar disorder that acts like a total dick and has an insane temper just like Max. I'm guessing that most people with bipolar disorder do not act like this though.

[Baby for Pree]

Bipolar disorder does not create feelings. It can't make you a dick.

[Baby for Pree]

i'm dying of a deep regret...

Hey, I'm the crazy one here!

But I can't stand these nights I've spent, alone, awake, begging...

tear my face apart like cheap leggings...

....sorry my love i'm gone, keep egging this on. i'm gone i'm gone i'm goneeee

PACK MY SHIT UP AND GO, I'M GETTING WASTED

x

I'm disavowed! HEY HEY! disavowed! HEY HEY!

Proud to shun their know-how.

and as our single climbs the charts i feed on their virgin blood from their bleeding hearts..

why won't you wait for me, why aren't you waiting for me NEVER AGAIN!

i mean nothing, only nothing. there's nothing i can do about thattt

i've accepted my place in the back, this is not the place or time to snap..

the circle torn apart, i used to have a heartttt

wait a second, i can't write the same damn song over and over again!!


werewolf bar mitzvah, spooky scary, boys becoming men, men becoming wolves

and the record begins with a song of rebellion...

Is this the in-depth Say Anything discussion you guys are always bitching about not being able to have due to all the nay nay?

[The Personist]

Pwned.

[Baby for Pree]

David! Did I tell you I'm planning on moving to Williamsburg after I'm done repaying my debt to the state of North Carolina?

This isn't one of those "Dion is exaggerating his hipsterdome for the sake of a joke" things either.

[The Personist]

Williamsburg, VA?!

[Baby for Pree]

Nah. Williamsburg, Brooklyn, New York.

[The Personist]

Not as close to me; therefore, our dreams of hanging out have been dashed.

HOWEVER, That is so cool.

[Baby for Pree]

How close is Williamsburg, VA?

[makeshiftmind]

just call him on the phone ala Wow, I Can Get Sexual Too

[The Personist]

How close is Williamsburg, VA?
Closer than Williamsburg, Brooklyn.

[ZeoVGM]

Oh cool, a new thread?

Pretty excited about the new album, though I doubt it'll top In Defense for me.

[Karyyk]

Tired of work and the douchebags there...

Tired of going to so-called "punk shows" and being surrounded by douchebag larvae who'll never work a fucking day in their life...

Looking forward to Social D in Myrtle Beach...

[Chemical Swirl]

Tired of work and the douchebags there...

Tired of going to so-called "punk shows" and being surrounded by douchebag larvae who'll never work a fucking day in their life...

Looking forward to Social D in Myrtle Beach...

Ahah, and you're tired of douchebags?

[ZeoVGM]

Tired of work and the douchebags there...

Tired of going to so-called "punk shows" and being surrounded by douchebag larvae who'll never work a fucking day in their life...

Looking forward to Social D in Myrtle Beach...

How is this related to the thread? And is someone who wears clown makeup calling someone else a douchebag?

[nowFace]

Who gives a shit what he's like?

Say Anything's music is awesome, that's all I care about.
and there lies the answer, and eloise sounds very promising

[The Personist]

and there lies the answer, and eloise sounds very promising
I mean, that would be great, except, again, people are lifting Max Bemis up as a role model beyond his music. When that happens, how he is as a person becomes an issue.

[Chemical Swirl]

How is this related to the thread? And is someone who wears clown makeup calling someone else a douchebag?

Social D definitely = SA

[nowFace]

I mean, that would be great, except, again, people are lifting Max Bemis up as a role model beyond his music. When that happens, how he is as a person becomes an issue.
some not all..i appreciate sa a great deal cuz i can relate to the overall message of thier songs but I dont want to be bemis

[crackedthesky]

I mean, that would be great, except, again, people are lifting Max Bemis up as a role model beyond his music. When that happens, how he is as a person becomes an issue.

This is, unfortunately, true.
I think a lot of people get into music to make music, and some of them never wanted to be rolde models. Look at Trent Reznor, he seems to not care at all what he says to people who are fans.
It's likely because when you're in that position, you never asked anybody to look up to you. You never made an agreement to be nice to anyone. While you probably should (and that should go for pretty much everybody, fmaous or not,) people act like it's a requirement, when really, it isn't.
But if you are in that position, you should understand that when you do something that a lot of people who look up to you are let down by, it isn't entirely their fault that they feel let down or disappointed or hurt. And if you go and ask them to become involved, then you really are taking it to another level, one that can quickly reach the point of deplorable.

[ZeoVGM]

Everyone has done douchey things in the past. Everyone has been an ass at some point. All the accounts I've ever heard of him online and from people I know were pretty glowing.

[The Personist]

some not all..i appreciate sa a great deal cuz i can relate to the overall message of thier songs but I dont want to be bemis
So you can relate to arrogance, self-aggrandizement, and "ironic" pretense?

[The Personist]

Everyone has done douchey things in the past. Everyone has been an ass at some point. All the accounts I've ever heard of him online and from people I know were pretty glowing.
He said to me, "I, thank God, am not a dick." He also told me if he ever met me he'd beat me up. Both those things are ridiculously arrogant and horribly insensitive...but yeah, dude's a saint.

[Baby for Pree]

Everyone has done douchey things in the past. Everyone has been an ass at some point. All the accounts I've ever heard of him online and from people I know were pretty glowing.
This isn't true, as you've read plenty of accounts from people in this thread that say otherwise. You simply choose to excuse them.

[ZeoVGM]

This isn't true, as you've read plenty of accounts from people in this thread that say otherwise. You simply choose to excuse them.

I've read plenty of accounts of Max Bemis being an ass to them in this thread? No. No, I haven't.

Though I should have said "almost all," to be fair.

[ZeoVGM]

He said to me, "I, thank God, am not a dick." He also told me if he ever met me he'd beat me up. Both those things are ridiculously arrogant and horribly insensitive...but yeah, dude's a saint.

Oh? I believe I missed this one. When did he tell you that personally?

[The Personist]

Oh? I believe I missed this one. When did he tell you that personally?
We had a conversation via PM on AP.net. I posted them in the last thread.

[ZeoVGM]

We had a conversation via PM on AP.net. I posted them in the last thread.

I didn't see this. I'll take a look if you have a link, but it's a fairly big thread to look through.

[Baby for Pree]

I've read plenty of accounts of Max Bemis being an ass to them in this thread? No. No, I haven't.

Though I should have said "almost all," to be fair.
The blog where he first revealed the term "nay nay" was directed at David and I, in which he called our opinions "unsubstantiated bullshit," even though we were just expressing our displeasure with Say Anything's new music.

[The Personist]

I didn't see this. I'll take a look if you have a link, but it's a fairly big thread to look through.
http://absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?p=53923842#post53923 842
The blog where he first revealed the term "nay nay" was directed at David and I, in which he called our opinions "unsubstantiated bullshit," even though we were just expressing our displeasure with Say Anything's new music.
Yeah. Basically.

[nowFace]

So you can relate to arrogance, self-aggrandizement, and "ironic" pretense?
yes everyone has that realization of themselves acting lude even outlandish from what they preceive their own personality to be...wen really everyone has these traits/ max is talented enough at writing that

[The Personist]

yes everyone has that realization of themselves acting lude even outlandish from what they preceive their own personality to be...wen really everyone has these traits/ max is talented enough at writing that
...no. Max is not a good writer at all. Deja Entendu and basically any Smiths album features the kind of writing that you're describing, but no Say Anything release does at all.

[ZeoVGM]

http://absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?p=53923842#post53923 842

Yeah. Basically.

You state your opinions with a very abrasive and above-it-all attitude with an almost obsessive need to fill up these threads with overblown negativity.

Reading his PM, I think Max could have worded a lot differently. You came off better in that exchange.

But David, you DO come off like a huge dick. Very often. You DO put other people down for having opinions (you've done it to me and you've done it to other people simply stating their opinions with you randomly going after them as if your opinion is worth more), which makes this "being annoyed with nay nay" stuff incredibly hypocritical.

When it comes down to it, maybe you and Max are both just dicks?

[nowFace]

...no. Max is not a good writer at all. Deja Entendu and basically any Smiths album features the kind of writing that you're describing, but no Say Anything release does at all.
you dont think their can be different styles and methods of describing it..max is a clever song writer actually and what you said is an opinion so im not gonna rant about why i said that.

[The Personist]

You state your opinions with a very abrasive and above-it-all attitude with an almost obsessive need to fill up these threads with overblown negativity.

Reading his PM, I think Max could have worded a lot differently. You came off better in that exchange.

But David, you DO come off like a huge dick. Very often. You DO put other people down for having opinions (you've done it to me and you've done it to other people -- simple stating their opinions with you randomly going after them as if your opinion is worth more), which makes this "being annoyed with nay nay" stuff incredibly hypocritical.

When it comes down to it, maybe you and Max are both just dicks?
Never said I wasn't a dick. He constantly reaffirms how he's not a dick at all. That's the difference.

[Chemical Swirl]

http://absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?p=53923842#post53923 842

Yeah. Basically.

n-fucking-ay fucking n-fucking-ay.

:lol:

[The Personist]

you dont think their can be different styles and methods of describing it..max is a clever song writer actually and what you said is an opinion so im not gonna rant about why i said that.
Well, no, he's not a good writer in the grand scheme of things. Just because you enjoy his writing doesn't make it good.

[Baby for Pree]

You state your opinions with a very abrasive and above-it-all attitude with an almost obsessive need to fill up these threads with overblown negativity.

Reading his PM, I think Max could have worded a lot differently. You came off better in that exchange.

But David, you DO come off like a huge dick. Very often. You DO put other people down for having opinions (you've done it to me and you've done it to other people -- simple stating their opinions with you randomly going after them as if your opinion is worth more), which makes this "being annoyed with nay nay" stuff incredibly hypocritical.

When it comes down to it, maybe you and Max are both just dicks?
And you excuse Max, but not David. That's the point. He doesn't get a free pass to be a dick just because he wrote a passable pop-punk record.

[Chemical Swirl]

AWH, David is MEAN. Lolz, Oh Max didn't keep his composure. So funny.

[ZeoVGM]

Well, no, he's not a good writer in the grand scheme of things. Just because you enjoy his writing doesn't make it good.

Just because you don't enjoy it doesn't make it bad.

This is what Max is talking about. This is you pretending as if your opinion is better than the person you are replying to.

[The Personist]

Just because you don't enjoy it doesn't make it bad.

This is what Max is talking about. This is you pretending as if your opinion is better than the person you are replying to.
I enjoy the song "I Thought It Was Over" by The Feeling. It's a horrible song. I guess my point is, there's a difference between what you like and what's good. I don't care if someone likes Max and his writing, but I do care if someone is going to try to tell me he's a good lyricist, which is just plain false. He writes in typical pop-punk one-liners and ultimately is more obsessed with his own superficial wordplay than he is writing a cohesive composition lyrically.

[crackedthesky]

I didn't finish the whole message exchange (getting tired and I'm actually working on something) but it looked like you and Max both had good points and bad points. I might come back to it and go into it in more detail another time. That said, I really don't feel it's my place to get involved.

I listen to the music these people make. I don't pretend to know them and I don't judge them off of how they act in public, because sometimes people are really rude to other people, and sometimes they aren't.

When you meet someone who has no idea who you are, but everyone knows who they are, it's a lot memorable for you if they're a dick to you than it is to them that they were a dick to you. This isn't an excuse, mind you, because I don't think there's ever a good time to be mean to someone. That said, we all do it. Especially when we're talking about things that rub us certain ways. Get me going about politics, and I can be incredibly mean. And I see this and sometimes I try to curb it, but sometimes I just let people know that I don't have a problem calling you a dumbass, as long as it's me calling a spade a spade.

I think my original train of thought got derailed. I guess what I'm saying is that I would be upset if someone in that position acted like a dick to me. But at the same time, I can sort of let it go. Not everyone wants to be in that position to begin with, and if they're having a bad day and then they're doing something they don't want to be doing, chances are, they'll be a dick about it. Again, it doesn't make it right, but it also doesn't make it a complete and accurate portrayal of the person. And it usually doesn't make me enjoy their music any less. After all, that's the only thing you can even come close to calling an agreement on that - I paid them to make music. That is, in essence, the only thing they're ever obligated to do, is make music.

[Baby for Pree]

Geez, Max is a douche.

[ZeoVGM]

I enjoy the song "I Thought It Was Over" by The Feeling. It's a horrible song. I guess my point is, there's a difference between what you like and what's good. I don't care if someone likes Max and his writing, but I do care if someone is going to try to tell me he's a good lyricist, which is just plain false.

He writes in typical pop-punk one-liners and ultimately is more obsessed with his own superficial wordplay than he is writing a cohesive composition lyrically.

But that isn't "plain false". It's an opinion. Based on the second part that I bolded, you obviously don't like his style of writing. And that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that at all. But you do not have the final say on what is or is not good. This is exactly what he's talking about.

I actually can completely understand why someone would hate his style of writing. But I can also see why someone would think it's very good.

(Going to bed though, so I won't be replying until tomorrow night.)

[Auals]

I enjoy the song "I Thought It Was Over" by The Feeling. It's a horrible song. I guess my point is, there's a difference between what you like and what's good. I don't care if someone likes Max and his writing, but I do care if someone is going to try to tell me he's a good lyricist, which is just plain false. He writes in typical pop-punk one-liners and ultimately is more obsessed with his own superficial wordplay than he is writing a cohesive composition lyrically.

I've never asked you this before but do you consider this an always thing or a now thing? Because personally I think that he used to be a brilliantly original lyricist. Lately he's been resting on his laurels.

[nowFace]

I enjoy the song "I Thought It Was Over" by The Feeling. It's a horrible song. I guess my point is, there's a difference between what you like and what's good. I don't care if someone likes Max and his writing, but I do care if someone is going to try to tell me he's a good lyricist, which is just plain false. He writes in typical pop-punk one-liners and ultimately is more obsessed with his own superficial wordplay than he is writing a cohesive composition lyrically.
so why do you hate this band to the point where your opinions shit on everyone else around you while also making it known your a more mature person than a lead singer in a band.

[The Personist]

But that isn't "plain false". It's an opinion. Based on the second part that I bolded, you obviously don't like his style of writing. And that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that at all. But you do not have the final say on what is or is not good. This is exactly what he's talking about.

I actually can completely understand why someone would hate his style of writing. But I can also see why someone would think it's very good.

(Going to bed though, so I won't be replying until tomorrow night.)
It uses really simplistic wordplay, so it comes across as smart because it's easy to understand but sounds complex. He also uses rudimentary poesy--"goo goo goggles," like it or not, is alliterative. However, Max is highly uninterested in cohesive compositions, and most, if not all, good lyricists write cohesively and compositionally. I've listed so many lyricists so many times to support this, but basically, Max doesn't stack up to most "good" lyricists. He's different than other pop-punk writers; it doesn't mean his writing is any good.
I've never asked you this before but do you consider this an always thing or a now thing? Because personally I think that he used to be a brilliantly original lyricist. Lately he's been resting on his laurels.
Always thing. Where's the brilliance?

[The Personist]

so why do you hate this band to the point where your opinions shit on everyone else around you while also making it known your a more mature person than a lead singer in a band.
I wrote a blog about it.

[nowFace]

I wrote a blog about it.
well im not gonna read it so why dont you put it into a small complex but simplistic poem where I will tear it down for its sake of being objective towards sa...now I get it.

[The Personist]

well im not gonna read it so why dont you put it into a small complex but simplistic poem where I will tear it down for its sake of being objective towards sa...now I get it.
Why not speak English so I can actually understand what you're saying?

[Auals]

Always thing. Where's the brilliance?

You don't consider ... Is A Real Boy to be brilliant?

And secondly, I love the irony of you being a fan of Say anything and not until you stop being a fan and start voicing your dislike of it does Max actually pay attention to you :p

[crackedthesky]

so why do you hate this band to the point where your opinions shit on everyone else around you while also making it known your a more mature person than a lead singer in a band.

I don't believe he ever claimed to be more mature than Max. If I may quote him, "I never said I wasn't a dick."

[Baby for Pree]

Artfully Aborted.

[crackedthesky]

I liked In Defense more than Is a Real Boy. By far. I skip over half of Is a Real Boy, I like almost every song on In Defense of the Genre.

[The Personist]

Artfully Aborted.
You once argued that IARB was better than Decomposer; you have no room to talk.

[nowFace]

Why not speak English so I can actually understand what you're saying?
you knew perfectly well what i was saying you must sympathize on some degree with bemis or you wouldnt keep up with this directionless hate

[Baby for Pree]

You once argued that IARB was better than Decomposer; you have no room to talk.
It is.

[crackedthesky]

you knew perfectly well what i was saying you must sympathize on some degree with bemis or you wouldnt keep up with this directionless hate

Apparently, you don't know him very well xD

[Baby for Pree]

you knew perfectly well what i was saying you must sympathize on some degree with bemis or you wouldnt keep up with this directionless hate
When one's hero falls, it's like waking up from the matrix; it sucks to see people still blindly believing in false images.

[The Personist]

you knew perfectly well what i was saying you must sympathize on some degree with bemis or you wouldnt keep up with this directionless hate
Not at all. This is horrible logic.
It is.
Wrong. The Matches aren't trying to preach to me.
When one's hero falls, it's like waking up from the matrix; it sucks to see people still blindly believing in false images.
Yeah.

[nowFace]

When one's hero falls, it's like waking up from the matrix; it sucks to see people still blindly believing in false images.
bah

[crackedthesky]

When one's hero falls, it's like waking up from the matrix; it sucks to see people still blindly believing in false images.

That's why I try not to care. I don't know the guy, nor will I base my opinion of him off of one fan saying he's a dick, or another fan saying he's a saint. I don't know him. If I meet him face to face after a million shows, I can still not know him.
All I do know is the music he puts out, and I enjoy it. That's all the relationship between Max Bemis and I will ever need to be.

[Baby for Pree]

Not at all. This is horrible logic.

Wrong. The Matches aren't trying to preach to me.

Yeah.
It's all pop-punk either way. The only pop-punk I've ingested recently was during a three-day nostalgia binge, in which I scarfed down as much My Chemical Romance, Fall Out Boy, and Panic at the Disco as I could get my hands on.

[Baby for Pree]

bah
Fantastic.

[The Personist]

It's all pop-punk either way. The only pop-punk I've ingested recently was during a three-day nostalgia binge, in which I scarfed down as much My Chemical Romance, Fall Out Boy, and Panic at the Disco as I could get my hands on.
It disgusts me that you've joined the group of assholes who uses "pop-punk" so pejoratively. The Matches are better than all those bands, and better than Say Anything as well.

[Baby for Pree]

It disgusts me that you've joined the group of assholes who uses "pop-punk" so pejoratively. The Matches are better than all those bands, and better than Say Anything as well.
The Matches had aspects that distinguished them from most pop-punk bands, but they were always pop-punk. Yeah, they're better than MCR, Panic, and FOB, but for me, at the end of the day it's all just pop-punk.

[The Personist]

The Matches had aspects that distinguished them from most pop-punk bands, but they were always pop-punk. Yeah, they're better than MCR, Panic, and FOB, but for me, at the end of the day it's all just pop-punk.
Never said they weren't pop-punk. Said you were an idiot for using "pop-punk" pejoratively. You seem to have not read my post entirely.

[Baby for Pree]

Never said they weren't pop-punk. Said you were an idiot for using "pop-punk" pejoratively. You seem to have not read my post entirely.
Pop-punk just isn't an interesting means of expression for me anymore. It's too limited in it's scope.

[The Personist]

Pop-punk just isn't an interesting means of expression for me anymore. It's too limited in it's scope.
Which means you're using the term pejoratively, which is pretentious in that you assume you have the right to determine, based on your own personal experience, just how limiting something's scope is. basically, this is what I was talking about--you being more of a dick than before.

[Baby for Pree]

Which means you're using the term pejoratively, which is pretentious in that you assume you have the right to determine, based on your own personal experience, just how limiting something's scope is. basically, this is what I was talking about--you being more of a dick than before.
You sound like Max Bemis.

Edit: In that you're painting me as a dick because I disagree with you. I never said pop-punk was shitty and no one should listen to it. I just said it doesn't do the trick for me anymore.

[The Personist]

You sound like Max Bemis.
Actually, no. I'm not mad because you disagree with me, because we have several rather large musical taste divergences that I don't give a shit about. What bothers me is more the way you're using your own personal experience--which is, for all intents and purposes, probably not representative of all of what pop-punk has to offer--and presuming that the genre's expression (too hazy a term to use anyways) is limited. You don't have the ability to make that judgment call because when you say, "this genre is too limited in its expression," you instantly speak for things you haven't heard and couldn't possibly know about. I don't listen to much pop-punk anymore because it doesn't pique my interest the way it did before; however, if your argument is that the genre is limited in its expression, then you're saying you know what "expression" is beyond the musical dynamic marking (which I highly doubt you're actually using) and can objectively explain what it is in 100% of all cases. Yours is an untenable position if you want to argue, too, because I am of the opinion that bands like The Weakerthans are more expressive than any of the really experimental stuff you've been listening to lately. Again, don't really care if you don't like pop-punk; however, I do care if you're going to try to renounce a genre you have no interest in as being "bad" based on a very limited sampling of what the genre may have to offer.

EDIT: you're not a dick for disagreeing with me; rather, it's more the way you're framing and presenting your argument that makes you sound like a pretentious dick. Also, I"m not throwing around pretentious baselessly like so many people do, so I've actually explained WHY I'm calling you teh p word.

[Baby for Pree]

Actually, no. I'm not mad because you disagree with me, because we have several rather large musical taste divergences that I don't give a shit about. What bothers me is more the way you're using your own personal experience--which is, for all intents and purposes, probably not representative of all of what pop-punk has to offer--and presuming that the genre's expression (too hazy a term to use anyways) is limited. You don't have the ability to make that judgment call because when you say, "this genre is too limited in its expression," you instantly speak for things you haven't heard and couldn't possibly know about. I don't listen to much pop-punk anymore because it doesn't pique my interest the way it did before; however, if your argument is that the genre is limited in its expression, then you're saying you know what "expression" is beyond the musical dynamic marking (which I highly doubt you're actually using) and can objectively explain what it is in 100% of all cases. Yours is an untenable position if you want to argue, too, because I am of the opinion that bands like The Weakerthans are more expressive than any of the really experimental stuff you've been listening to lately. Again, don't really care if you don't like pop-punk; however, I do care if you're going to try to renounce a genre you have no interest in as being "bad" based on a very limited sampling of what the genre may have to offer.

EDIT: you're not a dick for disagreeing with me; rather, it's more the way you're framing and presenting your argument that makes you sound like a pretentious dick. Also, I"m not throwing around pretentious baselessly like so many people do, so I've actually explained WHY I'm calling you teh p word.
By your logic, no one would be allowed to make any claims about any genre unless they'd heard 100% of the material that genre has created. That doesn't make any sense, David. I say pop-punk is limited in it's scope, not because I believe I have some inherent right to make that decision for everyone. I say it because what I look for in music, no pop-punk band can do. If it makes me pretentious to make that claim without having listened to the pseudo-experimental, lyrically semi-obscure song from the Weakerthans out-of-print, self-released debut CD, then I'm sincerely sorry for having turned into a pretentious dick. I haven't heard every pop-punk song ever written, but not a one I've heard is any better than Parenthetical Girls or Samsara Sound System or 90% of what replaced pop-punk in my iTunes library.

[Charles777]

I liked In Defense more than Is a Real Boy. By far. I skip over half of Is a Real Boy, I like almost every song on In Defense of the Genre.

Lots of great songs on that one. I think Retarded In Love might be my favorite.

[The Personist]

By your logic, no one would be allowed to make any claims about any genre unless they'd heard 100% of the material that genre has created.
Right. Making claims about genres is insipid anyways, considering how fluid and arbitrary they can be.

That doesn't make any sense, David. I say pop-punk is limited in it's scope, not because I believe I have some inherent right to make that decision for everyone.
Then phrase it differently. As an English major, SPECIFICALLY one who espouses deconstruction, you should KNOW how important every word in every sentence should be. Your claims don't stand up to your own self-professed (as a deconstructionist) syntactical care.

I say it because what I look for in music, no pop-punk band can do.
That doesn't mean pop-punk is limited in its expression. Hip-hop does next to nothing for me; I don't think it's limited in its expression at all. it just isn't my thing. THere is a big, big difference.

If it makes me pretentious to make that claim without having listened to the pseudo-experimental, lyrically semi-obscure song from the Weakerthans out-of-print, self-released debut CD, then I'm sincerely sorry for having turned into a pretentious dick.
Weakerthans have nothing to do with this, as they are not pop-punk (you could make a case for it, I bet, which would only prove my initial point that genres are fluid and arbitrary), but I honestly think it's stupid to make claims you can't possibly verify about genres because you "grew up" and don't listen to them anymore.
I haven't heard every pop-punk song ever written, but not a one I've heard is any better than Parenthetical Girls or Samsara Sound System or 90% of what replaced pop-punk in my iTunes library.
I think the Weakerthans are better than both those bands...but what does that even matter? What does your blanket statement about pop-punk mean? What's the point of saying it?

[Baby for Pree]

Right. Making claims about genres is insipid anyways, considering how fluid and arbitrary they can be.
Then let's apply the same argument outside of music. Should people just refrain from making any comments on a subject in which they aren't 100% learned? You'd be throwing all opinions at the window. No one would have the qualifications to make any claims about anything (a valid point). But, I say because I am human, because I think, experience, learn, and grow, I have the qualifications to make these claims in the same way you do. Now take it back to music. I listened to pop-punk, loved it, grew out of it (or whatever). So, yes, while I don't believe I have the qualifications to make any statements on music, I also believe that since no one does, it is pointless to argue whether or not someone has all the proper qualifications to make statements on music.

Then phrase it differently. As an English major, SPECIFICALLY one who espouses deconstruction, you should KNOW how important every word in every sentence should be. Your claims don't stand up to your own self-professed (as a deconstructionist) syntactical care.
I know it doesn't matter what I say or how I say it; one way or the other, it can all be misconstrued. I don't spend my time carefully picking each word because to be so meticulous would be a waste of time; words are meaningless no matter what order I put them in (especially when I choose to put them in any order at all).

That doesn't mean pop-punk is limited in its expression. Hip-hop does next to nothing for me; I don't think it's limited in its expression at all. it just isn't my thing. THere is a big, big difference.
I didn't say I didn't like pop-punk though, or that it wasn't my thing. It just isn't enough for me. It's a midnight snack, at best. When I'm hungry, I don't reach for a band who can't right a song without putting down their Strat.

Weakerthans have nothing to do with this, as they are not pop-punk (you could make a case for it, I bet, which would only prove my initial point that genres are fluid and arbitrary), but I honestly think it's stupid to make claims you can't possibly verify about genres because you "grew up" and don't listen to them anymore.
You brought up Weakerthans first so I assumed you consider them pop-punk. Also, whether you'd admit to it or not, you make blanket statements all the time. Maybe you hide them so as to maintain some aura of fairness, but if I were to ask you why you don't like hip-hop, the first thing to come in your head would be a blanket statement. What's the difference between you thinking them and me saying them (other than you getting to pick apart my word choice)?

I think the Weakerthans are better than both those bands...but what does that even matter? What does your blanket statement about pop-punk mean? What's the point of saying it?
My point in saying it was to say it, to say how I feel and what I think. I'm not going to prefix all my posts with "I think," because everything I say is what I think.

[x togepi x]

I paid them to make music. That is, in essence, the only thing they're ever obligated to do, is make music.

You're half right. That's the only thing they're obligated to do, in the positive sense, but you're forgetting about negative obligations. A negative obligation is an obligation not to do something. For example, while one could argue that you're not obligated to go out and save people who are in trouble, one would argue that you have a negative obligation, that is the obligation not to kill someone.

Musicians, regardless of who they are or how big their fanbases are, operate from a privileged position ie: one of power. In the positive sense, they are merely obligated to write music (not even that really, they can quit whenever they want), however, they have a similar negative obligation, that is, to not abuse their power/position over others. I would contend that's what Max does time and time again. He tends to rally his more fanboyish (or fangirlish) followers around his cause, and then uses this to get them to do a certain thing such as attacking that girl on twitter or yelling about Tim Kisnella's opinion. That is abuse.

You're right, he probably shouldn't be considered a role model, but he is because he's in a band that people like. This would be the same if he was just in a popular local band or if he was in the biggest band in the world. He has an obligation NOT to be a dick ub certain cases because, in being a dick, he can do more damage than someone like David can. So yeah, in one on one interactions, Max can act however he wants, but at the point where the situation becomes public, he has obligations that common folk don't have.

so yeah to sum up, I don't have a problem with him sparring back and forth with David (other than specific dumb things he said, his tendency to call people who disagree with him nazis is annoying), but in the case of the girl on twitter, there's a problem.

[The Personist]

Then let's apply the same argument outside of music. Should people just refrain from making any comments on a subject in which they aren't 100% learned? You'd be throwing all opinions at the window. No one would have the qualifications to make any claims about anything (a valid point). But, I say because I am human, because I think, experience, learn, and grow, I have the qualifications to make these claims in the same way you do. Now take it back to music. I listened to pop-punk, loved it, grew out of it (or whatever). So, yes, while I don't believe I have the qualifications to make any statements on music, I also believe that since no one does, it is pointless to argue whether or not someone has all the proper qualifications to make statements on music.

Black people are lazy. I know this to be true because I"ve met some black people who are lazy, so they all must be lazy.

In essence, that's what your claim boils down to.

I know it doesn't matter what I say or how I say it; one way or the other, it can all be misconstrued. I don't spend my time carefully picking each word because to be so meticulous would be a waste of time; words are meaningless no matter what order I put them in (especially when I choose to put them in any order at all).
Actually, being meticulous should be more important. You're wasting your time by even communicating if that's the case.


I didn't say I didn't like pop-punk though, or that it wasn't my thing. It just isn't enough for me. It's a midnight snack, at best. When I'm hungry, I don't reach for a band who can't right a song without putting down their Strat.
Right, so when you apply the label of "pop-punk" to a band, you are implying that it is an inferior band to one that is labeled differently.

You brought up Weakerthans first so I assumed you consider them pop-punk. Also, whether you'd admit to it or not, you make blanket statements all the time. Maybe you hide them so as to maintain some aura of fairness, but if I were to ask you why you don't like hip-hop, the first thing to come in your head would be a blanket statement. What's the difference between you thinking them and me saying them (other than you getting to pick apart my word choice)?
I don't like hip-hop because the aesthetic, in general, doesn't appeal to me, though in some cases the play with language is appealing. is that a blanket statement of the same ilk?


My point in saying it was to say it, to say how I feel and what I think. I'm not going to prefix all my posts with "I think," because everything I say is what I think.
Not at all what I was saying.

[The Personist]

You're half right. That's the only thing they're obligated to do, in the positive sense, but you're forgetting about negative obligations. A negative obligation is an obligation not to do something. For example, while one could argue that you're not obligated to go out and save people who are in trouble, one would argue that you have a negative obligation, that is the obligation not to kill someone.

Musicians, regardless of who they are or how big their fanbases are, operate from a privileged position ie: one of power. In the positive sense, they are merely obligated to write music (not even that really, they can quit whenever they want), however, they have a similar negative obligation, that is, to not abuse their power/position over others. I would contend that's what Max does time and time again. He tends to rally his more fanboyish (or fangirlish) followers around his cause, and then uses this to get them to do a certain thing such as attacking that girl on twitter or yelling about Tim Kisnella's opinion. That is abuse.

You're right, he probably shouldn't be considered a role model, but he is because he's in a band that people like. This would be the same if he was just in a popular local band or if he was in the biggest band in the world. He has an obligation NOT to be a dick ub certain cases because, in being a dick, he can do more damage than someone like David can. So yeah, in one on one interactions, Max can act however he wants, but at the point where the situation becomes public, he has obligations that common folk don't have.

so yeah to sum up, I don't have a problem with him sparring back and forth with David (other than specific dumb things he said, his tendency to call people who disagree with him nazis is annoying), but in the case of the girl on twitter, there's a problem.
WTF are you talking about? Everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi, dammit.

[x togepi x]

WTF are you talking about? Everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi, dammit.

it confuses me to no end that someone with jewish ancestry can make that argument.

[The Personist]

it confuses me to no end that someone with jewish ancestry can make that argument.
It's OK; he's a humanist.

[XOTHEBAND]

Originally Posted by Baby for Pree
Then let's apply the same argument outside of music. Should people just refrain from making any comments on a subject in which they aren't 100% learned? You'd be throwing all opinions at the window. No one would have the qualifications to make any claims about anything (a valid point). But, I say because I am human, because I think, experience, learn, and grow, I have the qualifications to make these claims in the same way you do. Now take it back to music. I listened to pop-punk, loved it, grew out of it (or whatever). So, yes, while I don't believe I have the qualifications to make any statements on music, I also believe that since no one does, it is pointless to argue whether or not someone has all the proper qualifications to make statements on music.Black people are lazy. I know this to be true because I"ve met some black people who are lazy, so they all must be lazy.



i would like you to know that by stating this you have completely nulled everything you say about our band. you havent heard 100% of the music max has written or will write, so, based on your comments you cannot form an opinion yet. when max is done writing all the music he will write or creating any kind of art, feel free to do so. . also, you havent seen or heard everything he will say on twitter or do in his personal life so please hold off on making any judgments or statements of any kind until that stops happening as well. thank you.
jeff

[bandrewes]

I think Say Anything is kinda an aquired taste,
I love them but loads of people i know just think they're shit,
Although all my friends like is drum and bass...:-|

[pennie]

Originally Posted by Baby for Pree
Then let's apply the same argument outside of music. Should people just refrain from making any comments on a subject in which they aren't 100% learned? You'd be throwing all opinions at the window. No one would have the qualifications to make any claims about anything (a valid point). But, I say because I am human, because I think, experience, learn, and grow, I have the qualifications to make these claims in the same way you do. Now take it back to music. I listened to pop-punk, loved it, grew out of it (or whatever). So, yes, while I don't believe I have the qualifications to make any statements on music, I also believe that since no one does, it is pointless to argue whether or not someone has all the proper qualifications to make statements on music.


i would like you to know that by stating this you have completely nulled everything you say about our band. you havent heard 100% of the music max has written or will write, so, based on your comments you cannot form an opinion yet. when max is done writing all the music he will write or creating any kind of art, feel free to do so. . also, you havent seen or heard everything he will say on twitter or do in his personal life so please hold off on making any judgments or statements of any kind until that stops happening as well. thank you.
jeff

He told a few thousand people to tell a girl to kill themselves because she didn't think max's wife was pretty.I don't think anyone would need to see him say anything else on twitter to make a judgement on what type of person he is. That's a horrific thing to do.

[tawtaw]

He told a few thousand people to tell a girl to kill themselves because she didn't think max's wife was pretty.I don't think anyone would need to see him say anything else on twitter to make a judgement on what type of person he is. That's a horrific thing to do.

Oh my god I can't believe people are serious with this mentality.

[pennie]

Oh my god I can't believe people are serious with this mentality.

excuse me?

[ZeoVGM]

He told a few thousand people to tell a girl to kill themselves because she didn't think max's wife was pretty.I don't think anyone would need to see him say anything else on twitter to make a judgement on what type of person he is. That's a horrific thing to do.

Oh jesus christ, who cares? Sorry, but some people have an automatic angry reaction to hearing someone call their wife ugly. It doesn't make what Max said right, but she was just as wrong for being a bitch.

[ZeoVGM]

i would like you to know that by stating this you have completely nulled everything you say about our band. you havent heard 100% of the music max has written or will write, so, based on your comments you cannot form an opinion yet. when max is done writing all the music he will write or creating any kind of art, feel free to do so. . also, you havent seen or heard everything he will say on twitter or do in his personal life so please hold off on making any judgments or statements of any kind until that stops happening as well. thank you.
jeff

I'm pretty sure at this point that the two people you just quoted are actually the same person, and he's arguing with himself to keep the thread going.

[GrapesIndigo]

here we go again

[yoyostring]

Originally Posted by Baby for Pree
Then let's apply the same argument outside of music. Should people just refrain from making any comments on a subject in which they aren't 100% learned? You'd be throwing all opinions at the window. No one would have the qualifications to make any claims about anything (a valid point). But, I say because I am human, because I think, experience, learn, and grow, I have the qualifications to make these claims in the same way you do. Now take it back to music. I listened to pop-punk, loved it, grew out of it (or whatever). So, yes, while I don't believe I have the qualifications to make any statements on music, I also believe that since no one does, it is pointless to argue whether or not someone has all the proper qualifications to make statements on music.


i would like you to know that by stating this you have completely nulled everything you say about our band. you havent heard 100% of the music max has written or will write, so, based on your comments you cannot form an opinion yet. when max is done writing all the music he will write or creating any kind of art, feel free to do so. . also, you havent seen or heard everything he will say on twitter or do in his personal life so please hold off on making any judgments or statements of any kind until that stops happening as well. thank you.
jeff

:wave: hi jeffff

[pennie]

Oh jesus christ, who cares? Sorry, but some people have an automatic angry reaction to hearing someone call their wife ugly. It doesn't make what Max said right, but she was just as wrong for being a bitch.

Maybe if you got up off you knees and away from max for a second you might see that a man in his late 20's telling a few thousand people to tella 15 year old girl to kill themselves is something you can't sweep under the carpet.

[The Personist]

Originally Posted by Baby for Pree
Then let's apply the same argument outside of music. Should people just refrain from making any comments on a subject in which they aren't 100% learned? You'd be throwing all opinions at the window. No one would have the qualifications to make any claims about anything (a valid point). But, I say because I am human, because I think, experience, learn, and grow, I have the qualifications to make these claims in the same way you do. Now take it back to music. I listened to pop-punk, loved it, grew out of it (or whatever). So, yes, while I don't believe I have the qualifications to make any statements on music, I also believe that since no one does, it is pointless to argue whether or not someone has all the proper qualifications to make statements on music.


i would like you to know that by stating this you have completely nulled everything you say about our band. you havent heard 100% of the music max has written or will write, so, based on your comments you cannot form an opinion yet. when max is done writing all the music he will write or creating any kind of art, feel free to do so. . also, you havent seen or heard everything he will say on twitter or do in his personal life so please hold off on making any judgments or statements of any kind until that stops happening as well. thank you.
jeff
You obviously lack reading comprehension skills. I'm not generalizing about Say Anything, as I have a heard a great deal of your music, past and present, and have made my judgments based on that. I'm not simply throwing out disdainful statements without reading the lyrics I think are bad (Mara and Me) or listening to the songs I think sound like crap (Hate Everyone, Property). I truly am giving your band a chance, and yet have been let down every time. You've turned my point into a false analogy; we're talking about a genre far more expansive than Say Anything's oeuvre as something that one should not generalize about, mainly because it's truly impossible to hear every pop-punk band and that to make snap judgments based on the small sample one has heard is unwise, whereas with Say Anything I can listen to myriad B-sides, EPs, demos, and your albums--most of what you've released, I've heard at one point or another. I used to be a huge fan. I'm not making snap judgments about your music. I am responding reasonably based on what I've heard. You don't give me enough credit as a critic.

[Stage Combat]

Is this the in-depth Say Anything discussion you guys are always bitching about not being able to have due to all the nay nay?

Pwned.

[The Personist]

Maybe if you got up off you knees and away from max for a second you might see that a man in his late 20's telling a few thousand people to tella 15 year old girl to kill themselves is something you can't sweep under the carpet.
I wish people would stop trying to defend the artist just because they like his art. I appreciate tons of art, music and otherwise, that was made by despicable people. I mean, T. S. Eliot, Ezra Pound, Wallace Stevens, William Faulkner, and basically every other writer before 1950 was a huge elitist and generally held some sort of prejudice (eliot and pound hated teh jews, Faulkner the blacks). That doesn't mean "The Waste Land" or As I Lay Dying are any less masterfully crafted. Hell, Wagner was a massive anti-Semite who wrote an ESSAY about how Jews had no place in music, and yet he created some of the most incredible music of all time. I don't condone his philosophies or him as a person, but I appreciate his creations, his art, separately from his dreadful personal beliefs.

[projectmayhem16]

You obviously lack reading comprehension skills. I'm not generalizing about Say Anything, as I have a heard a great deal of your music, past and present, and have made my judgments based on that. I'm not simply throwing out disdainful statements without reading the lyrics I think are bad (Mara and Me) or listening to the songs I think sound like crap (Hate Everyone, Property). I truly am giving your band a chance, and yet have been let down every time. You've turned my point into a false analogy; we're talking about a genre far more expansive than Say Anything's oeuvre as something that one should not generalize about, mainly because it's truly impossible to hear every pop-punk band and that to make snap judgments based on the small sample one has heard is unwise, whereas with Say Anything I can listen to myriad B-sides, EPs, demos, and your albums--most of what you've released, I've heard at one point or another. I used to be a huge fan. I'm not making snap judgments about your music. I am responding reasonably based on what I've heard. You don't give me enough credit as a critic.You are one of the most annoying users this site has ever had, just know that.

[The Personist]

You are one of the most annoying users this site has ever had, just know that.
I'm sorry I don't fellate every blue-named poster here.

[Chemical Swirl]

All this pseudo-nay Humanism in here is making my head hurt.

[projectmayhem16]

I'm sorry I don't fellate every blue-named poster here.you come off as very pretentious.