Student Documentary On Pro-Bush Students

[Jonathan Lally]

I came across this very compelling film (http://users.design.ucla.edu/~mylrea/blog/movies/firstdayatsvhs.mov) by a UCLA film major who went undercover as a student at a Santa Cruz high school in California. Once inside, he proceeds to interview some students about their beliefs and political views. Although the film is little biased, it's interesting and thought provoking none the less.

The load time is a bit slow since the movie is in high quality compression, so give it some time to load. You will need Quicktime (http://www.quicktime.com) version 7 to watch.

[overoverme]

I am going to post and guess that he finds a bunch of idiots to interview...
Either side could find that...I'll watch it on a commercial.

[Jonathan Lally]

I am going to post and guess that he finds a bunch of idiots to interview...
Either side could find that...I'll watch it on a commercial.

haha you're somewhat true.. but if you watch he randomly picks a group of kids, and it's funny because their friends keep coming over and they're all the same. I especially love their use of homephobic slander in pretty much every other sentence.. oh yes, god bless America.

Yes, it's biased.. I stated that.. but a fun thing to watch regardless!

[dpmurph]

Why would the interview people who obviously arent extremely politically educated?

[Jason Tate]

Why would the interview people who obviously arent extremely politically educated?
Probably to prove that the youth aren't politically educated?

/Haven't watched this.
/Probably won't.
/This shit depresses me.

[JustAStupidKid]

Yeah scotts valley kids are retarded. South Santa Cruz represent.

[overoverme]

Probably to prove the the youth aren't politically educated?

/Haven't watched this.
/Probably won't.
/This shit depresses me.

Yeah, you are right.
It is kind of funny that everyone stereotypes the south as being full of people like those shown in the video.
Those people are everywhere.
The kids interviewing them are kind of meek though. I guess it works better that way.

[Grybo]

Yeah, you are right.
It is kind of funny that everyone stereotypes the south as being full of people like those shown in the video.
Those people are everywhere.
theres definitely a high concentration of them in the south. and i live in south carolina so don't think im some yankee talkin smack about them ignorant southerners. but seriously, a lot of people here fit the stereotype pretty dead on. not everyone but theres a good lot

[ishotthepilot]

Probably to prove that the youth aren't politically educated?

/Haven't watched this.
/Probably won't.
/This shit depresses me.

:ditto:

[Super Octopus]

I watched the first half, it's terrible.
Everything about it. How it's shot, the questions they ask.
Just saying "Why?" over and over again is a terrible way to pry answers out of someone.
Also most high school kids can't even vote, I was 17 when I graduated high school so what the hell do they know about politics? Nothing.

Is that the point?
If it is who cares...high school kids for the most part are stupid and since they can't even vote don't even have a legit reason to care. Of course, EVERYONE should know something, but let's face it, when someone can't even partcipate in the government it's hard to have interest in it.

I think if anything it proves that kids from UCLA are stupid and their film program is god awful.
I could've made a better 'documentary' using Power Point.

Also, sorry for this being long winded, but I think it's a good idea though. But, it would have been better if they went to a different college or just filmed at their own college. Seeing how stupid and uneducated in politics kids at UCLA are might be a lot more groundbreaking and news worthy than high school kids.

[shane hennessey]

the youth of america is retarted. who doesnt know what the separation between church and state is.

[overoverme]

Also, sorry for this being long winded, but I think it's a good idea though. But, it would have been better if they went to a different college or just filmed at their own college. Seeing how stupid and uneducated in politics kids at UCLA are might be a lot more groundbreaking and news worthy than high school kids.

Thats true, but asking 'why' over and over isn't all they did.
They asked specific questions later on...they don't even know what 'separation of church and state' is.
They say the country was founded on Christian beliefs....

Watch the whole thing for a laugh.

[Super Octopus]

Thats true, but asking 'why' over and over isn't all they did.
They asked specific questions later on...they don't even know what 'separation of church and state' is.
They say the country was founded on Christian beliefs....

Haha. I realize they are dumb kids, I just don't think they are really shedding light on anything new. And while they were asking specific questions about say, "what did you think about Kerry's economic policy", after the kids gave them an answer they would just say keep saying 'why' to get more out of them.

I just think it was an alright idea, but could have been done much better in a lot of ways.

[Dan Hollister]

Well, the problem with the argument that we found the "idiots" is that about 90% of the students are that way.

On that note, I am on neither side. I believe the people saying Kerry is a ***got are no worse than the people calling Bush a terrorist and babykiller. Both extremes kill, but this video is at least the first some anyone shed some light on my old high school.

[KetchupMan36]

what is the point of this documentary?

[dpmurph]

Probably to prove that the youth aren't politically educated?

/Haven't watched this.
/Probably won't.
/This shit depresses me.
Yah i guess thats what they might of been tryign to get at. But if youre going to make a interview asking people about politics, its seemed pretty pointless asking people who arent well educatedon the subjects.

[dpmurph]

the youth of america is retarted. who doesnt know what the separation between church and state is.
Yah that was pretty despressing and shows how uneducated some kids are.

[dpmurph]

what is the point of this documentary?
i wish i could tell you.

[Jason Tate]

Hahaha .. okay, I watched it ... I am laughing, but it reminds me of any conversation with most highschool kids (they're retarded, that's why they don't go to college and end up working at daddy's company). The kid with the black hat backward looks like he knows his friends are full of shit but doesn't know what to say. The girl is obnoxious ...

On that note, if someone would have asked me stuff like that in some "documentary" (loose term used here) in highschool I probably would have said some ridiculous stuff as well.

[shtjames]

so he interviewed a bunch of bros. sweet

[Jonathan Lally]

so he interviewed a bunch of bros. sweet

we all know bros provide hours of entertainment, entertainment which is only matched (and sometimes outdone) with the addition of alcohol.

[crayZbuzzard]

If those college students would have talked to educated conservatives instead of the douche bags they interviewed, then they could have just thrown that short film in the trash. Liberalism is hurting this country.

[ishotthepilot]

On that note, if someone would have asked me stuff like that in some "documentary" (loose term used here) in highschool I probably would have said some ridiculous stuff as well.

sure as hell not at my school.
kids here are, if anything, overopinionated/educated about politics and the like

[WarpSpeedChewy]

All the Documentary proved to me were the students complete morons. There's people like that everywhere though. Some places more than other but whereever you go theres always someone like that.

[Sumblinksk8er]

I went to that high school, its in a really rich area but suprisingly really liberal. I think theres 600 kids and in the voting for the presidential election Kerry won 488-112. The videos not really loading for me but i would be very suprised if i didnt know every kid interviewed. There are idiots there but its still a pretty smart area. The problem with it is out of junior high the high school takes in from Scotts Valley middle school and a private christian school called baymonte. So i think its pretty obvious where the republican influence comes from.

[annn]

I don't whether to be amused by the dumb answers or to punch all of them in the face.

[N8IVIin0rity]

the youth of america is retarted.
i believe its 'the youth of america ARE retarded'.

[thexflamesxburn]

I am going to post and guess that he finds a bunch of idiots to interview...
Either side could find that...I'll watch it on a commercial.
agreed.

[thexflamesxburn]

i believe its 'the youth of america ARE retarded'.
i think that was done on purpose...point proven.

[rufiocardtime]

i think the people making this video are about as stupid as the people they thought they were mocking.

i love how liberals take the idea of the separation of church and state out of it's context and use it as their support for abortion and gay marriage.

see the problem with the constitution is the wording in the phrase "freedom of religion". using the word "religion" in this amendment already gives anyone of a religious affiliation less of a voice in our government.

i think it's an excellent idea, but the courts have taken this amendment along with the infamous "separation of church and state" out of its basic idea and have gone on to say that the government cannot pass any laws in favor of any religion. this automatically gives atheists, agnostics, materialists, or "secular progressives" (as they like to call themselves) an upperhand since they don't ascribe to any religion. the courts have already given that set of beliefs (or the lack there of) more weight than anyone with religious beliefs. by ruling that the government cannot show favoritism to any religious belief, they are automatically showing favoritism to people with other beliefs that don't fall in the category of any "religion" and ruling that those beliefs are more valid than beliefs that fall into the category of "religion".

i.e. if you're an atheist and you say you believe that there isn't a god and that you don't have any religious beliefs, then your set of beliefs is automatically given the upperhand in our judicial system.

does anyone else see the inherent flaw in this? i mean, obviously if you're an atheist/agnostic, this is something to get excited about.

but thomas jefferson wasn't saying that religious beliefs couldn't influence law making. that's not what the separation of church and state is.

[crayZbuzzard]

i believe its 'the youth of america ARE retarded'.


Youth is the subject which is singular...so "the youth of america is retarded" is grammatically correct.

[rockxyourxhole]

by ruling that the government cannot show favoritism to any religious belief, they are automatically showing favoritism to people with other beliefs that don't fall in the category of any "religion" and ruling that those beliefs are more valid than beliefs that fall into the category of "religion".
The thing is that no one's beliefs should trump anyone else's. By passing laws that ban abortion or gay marriage, you are imposing religious beliefs on people who don't believe in them. Keeping abortion legal doesn't force Christians to have abortions. It gives women the *option* to have an abortion. Making gay marriage legal doesn't force straight people to marry people of the same sex. It gives gay people the same rights as heterosexuals.

If someone thinks abortions are sinful, that's fine. Don't have one. But I'll be damned if that person thinks they have more say over my body than I do.

[XpunkXroutineX]

the youth of america is retarted. who doesnt know what the separation between church and state is.

...I'm for the abolition of church and state.

[rufiocardtime]

The thing is that no one's beliefs should trump anyone else's. By passing laws that ban abortion or gay marriage, you are imposing religious beliefs on people who don't believe in them. Keeping abortion legal doesn't force Christians to have abortions. It gives women the *option* to have an abortion. Making gay marriage legal doesn't force straight people to marry people of the same sex. It gives gay people the same rights as heterosexuals.

If someone thinks abortions are sinful, that's fine. Don't have one. But I'll be damned if that person thinks they have more say over my body than I do.

If you don't think it's right to impose your beliefs on others, then why are you imposing liberalism (your belief) right now? Your belief is that abortion is ok and should be a choice. My belief is that it shouldn't be We're both imposing our beliefs. Stop acting like imposing beliefs is wrong, you idiot.

There's nothing wrong with imposing your beliefs on other people, because that's exactly what you're doing right now.

I don't think women should solely hold the fate of the life of the baby inside her body. Woopty do. That's my belief and I'll impose it on your ass all day long. It's freedom of speech and I'm using my constitutional right just like you are.

It's not that I feel like I have more say over your body than you do, but if I had to sacrifice you to save an innocent life inside you, I would do it in a heartbeat.

And this is where you impose more of your beliefs on me and everyone else...go for it.

[theeasykill]

i believe its 'the youth of america ARE retarded'.

Haha, too bad you're wrong. Good job proving the person right though.

[waggy]

i'll admit that i haven't watched this so i am in fact talking out of my ass (sorry, it's late and i'm slightly buzzed). but based on the premise of the video and posts i've read, it seems that the video is about the general conservative bias of dumb high school kids. do we really need a video to tell us that high school kids don't know what they're talking about though? my guess is that under clinton we would've gotten a liberal bias from dumb high school kids. (as he notes the irony of this recent college graduate looking down on a college student making a video looking down on high school students' political leanings)

[Ratherbedead22]

If you don't think it's right to impose your beliefs on others, then why are you imposing liberalism (your belief) right now? Your belief is that abortion is ok and should be a choice. My belief is that it shouldn't be We're both imposing our beliefs. Stop acting like imposing beliefs is wrong, you idiot.

There's nothing wrong with imposing your beliefs on other people, because that's exactly what you're doing right now.

I don't think women should solely hold the fate of the life of the baby inside her body. Woopty do. That's my belief and I'll impose it on your ass all day long. It's freedom of speech and I'm using my constitutional right just like you are.

It's not that I feel like I have more say over your body than you do, but if I had to sacrifice you to save an innocent life inside you, I would do it in a heartbeat.

And this is where you impose more of your beliefs on me and everyone else...go for it.

typical. resorting to ad honinem.

[Ratherbedead22]

If those college students would have talked to educated conservatives instead of the douche bags they interviewed, then they could have just thrown that short film in the trash. Liberalism is hurting this country.

liberalism is hurting out country? please. you just eat up all that right wing garbage they throw at you.

[Ratherbedead22]

the point is, these kids are racist, bigoted, uneducated brats who spew forth hate. you can't say these kids are gonna try to educate themselves once they hit 18. they can easily vote and not be educated on the issues and still vote for whom they are obviously blindly supporting.

these kids are clearly close to voting age.

[rockxyourxhole]

If you don't think it's right to impose your beliefs on others, then why are you imposing liberalism (your belief) right now? Your belief is that abortion is ok and should be a choice. My belief is that it shouldn't be We're both imposing our beliefs. Stop acting like imposing beliefs is wrong, you idiot.

There's nothing wrong with imposing your beliefs on other people, because that's exactly what you're doing right now.

I don't think women should solely hold the fate of the life of the baby inside her body. Woopty do. That's my belief and I'll impose it on your ass all day long. It's freedom of speech and I'm using my constitutional right just like you are.

It's not that I feel like I have more say over your body than you do, but if I had to sacrifice you to save an innocent life inside you, I would do it in a heartbeat.

And this is where you impose more of your beliefs on me and everyone else...go for it.

Are you fucking kidding me? How is giving someone a choice imposing beliefs? I never said only the woman should decide. It's between her, her doctor, and her partner. But in the end, it's her body. At what point does the potential for life override a woman's right to have one?

Like I said before, you can believe whatever the fuck you want about abortion and gay rights and whatever other hot button issues you want to throw out there and I will support your right to believe that. But that ends the *second* your beliefs lead to your restricting mine. Saying you think abortion is immoral is one thing, forcing women to go to another country or to some butcher instead of a licensed doctor because YOUR so called morals say its wrong is another. I wouldn't force a woman who is pro-life to have an abortion. Therefore, I am not imposing my beliefs on anyone. It's assholes like you who think their beliefs are superior to everyone else's that is imposing morals on others.

[rufiocardtime]

typical. resorting to ad honinem.

i think you mean "ad hominem", you dumbass.

oh wait, are you going to accuse me of it again since i just called you a dumbass?

you must not be a dumbass then.

stfu.

[Ratherbedead22]

i think you mean "ad hominem", you dumbass.

oh wait, are you going to accuse me of it again since i just called you a dumbass?

you must not be a dumbass then.

stfu.

sorry for a typo, asshole. go somewhere else so we can have a clearly objective argument without interruptions.

[rufiocardtime]

Are you fucking kidding me? How is giving someone a choice imposing beliefs? I never said only the woman should decide. It's between her, her doctor, and her partner. But in the end, it's her body. At what point does the potential for life override a woman's right to have one?

Like I said before, you can believe whatever the fuck you want about abortion and gay rights and whatever other hot button issues you want to throw out there and I will support your right to believe that. But that ends the *second* your beliefs lead to your restricting mine. Saying you think abortion is immoral is one thing, forcing women to go to another country or to some butcher instead of a licensed doctor because YOUR so called morals say its wrong is another. I wouldn't force a woman who is pro-life to have an abortion. Therefore, I am not imposing my beliefs on anyone. It's assholes like you who think their beliefs are superior to everyone else's that is imposing morals on others.

you missed the ENTIRE point i was making.

you are trying to imposing your personal belief that "imposing beliefs is wrong".
do you not see the contradiction? are you that dumb?
you are commiting the same moral violation that you are simultaneously speaking out against.
if it's morally wrong to impose your morals on other people, then why are you imposing yours on me???
it doesn't work.

go home. game over.

[Ratherbedead22]

Are you fucking kidding me? How is giving someone a choice imposing beliefs? I never said only the woman should decide. It's between her, her doctor, and her partner. But in the end, it's her body. At what point does the potential for life override a woman's right to have one?

Like I said before, you can believe whatever the fuck you want about abortion and gay rights and whatever other hot button issues you want to throw out there and I will support your right to believe that. But that ends the *second* your beliefs lead to your restricting mine. Saying you think abortion is immoral is one thing, forcing women to go to another country or to some butcher instead of a licensed doctor because YOUR so called morals say its wrong is another. I wouldn't force a woman who is pro-life to have an abortion. Therefore, I am not imposing my beliefs on anyone. It's assholes like you who think their beliefs are superior to everyone else's that is imposing morals on others.

well said. :appl:

[rufiocardtime]

sorry for a typo, asshole. go somewhere else so we can have a clearly objective argument without interruptions.

let me get this straight...

first you tried to call me out for an ad hominem? and after i totally just pwned you...

you pull an ad hominem on me by calling me an asshole?

and now you want to have an objective argument.

you are a joke.

[Ratherbedead22]

you missed the ENTIRE point i was making.

you are trying to imposing your personal belief that "imposing beliefs is wrong".
do you not see the contradiction? are you that dumb?
you are commiting the same moral violation that you are simultaneously speaking out against.
if it's morally wrong to impose your morals on other people, then why are you imposing yours on me???
it doesn't work.

go home. game over.

she is not even imposing beliefs, but merely stating that it should be fair to other parties to not impose beliefs. are YOU that dumb?

[Ratherbedead22]

im sinking to your level. and how the fuck did you own me? by calling out a typo?

oh god. look at what you did - you are trying to imposing your personal belief that "imposing beliefs is wrong". you fucked up. OWNED.

[rufiocardtime]

she is not even imposing beliefs, but merely stating that it should be fair to other parties to not impose beliefs. are YOU that dumb?

yes, she is imposing her BELIEF...

that imposing beliefs is wrong.

that BELIEF is not MY BELIEF.

that is the third time i've tried to explain this, i don't know how else i can break it down for you.

[Love American]

yes, she is imposing her BELIEF...

that imposing beliefs is wrong.

that BELIEF is not MY BELIEF.

that is the third time i've tried to explain this, i don't know how else i can break it down for you.

stfu you fucking conservative retard. she was refering to religious beliefs, not beliefs in general. im sick you idiots.

:shake:

[Super Octopus]

I think what we all learned from this video and these posts, that regardless of our political and moral beliefs, worse things could happen than abortions.

[codex avellum31]

their beliefs and morals are fine they just have absolutley nothing to back them up plus their high school students they cant vote so why does their opinions matter go ask people who acctually vote. im as liberal as they come but talking to those kids did nothing, yeah theyll vote in '08 but asking them about bush is stupid because anything they say is not valid. they didnt vote. but ill give it to the interviewers those kids were very ignorant and that girl was beyond ignorant.

[Chevy114]

This is like the time in the 80s where they did a documentry on high school students and how much they knew about basic general subjects that they learn on a daily basis. The end result was a lot of stupid answers to questions like who wrote the story mcbeth and stuff like that causing the no child left behind act. Now because of idots like this we will have even more state standardized testing in our schools and maybe will have to teach political classes so are kids wont lack basic potlical knowledge.

As for this this being fake it could be like our morning show at this high school where they would do the word of the day and ask people what a big word's def. was and if they gave a serious or correct answer they would get cut out of the segment the only people who made it on the air where the ones who said it means to holla at a girl right?

[rockxyourxhole]

yes, she is imposing her BELIEF...

that imposing beliefs is wrong.

that BELIEF is not MY BELIEF.
Well too bad for you that this is a free country then. Because that's exactly what this country was founded *against*.

[rufiocardtime]

Well too bad for you that this is a free country then. Because that's exactly what this country was founded *against*.

in all honesty and seriousness, i really don't know what the hell you're talking about.

[rufiocardtime]

stfu you fucking conservative retard. she was refering to religious beliefs, not beliefs in general. im sick you idiots.

:shake:

"stfu you fucking conservative retard". wow. thank you for joining in with all your contemporaries from the left wing. you guys are doing an excellent job defending/spreading your ideas and sounding super intelligent simultaneously.
/sarcasm off.

who cares if she was referring to religious beliefs as oppose to beliefs in general?. i don't consider myself part of a religion but because someone else takes my beliefs and categorizes them under the umbrella of "religious", suddenly they are religious beliefs? screw you. beliefs are beliefs. you must not have taken the time to read my first post when i pretty much adressed all this already.

[rockxyourxhole]

in all honesty and seriousness, i really don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Now who has to spell it out for whom? You said you believe it's okay to impose your beliefs on others. I guess you fell asleep in US history that day, because this country was founded with the belief that no one has that right.

[rufiocardtime]

Now who has to spell it out for whom? You said you believe it's okay to impose your beliefs on others. I guess you fell asleep in US history that day, because this country was founded with the belief that no one has that right.

no, it was absolutely NOT founded on that belief.

if our founding fathers had wanted to make "imposing your beliefs on others" illegal, they absolutely would have.

but instead they gave us the freedom to impose our beliefs on whoever we wish and the freedom to deny any beliefs that we wish to deny, hence the freedom of speech and the freedom of religion.

that means we can speak about whatever we believe and impose it on whoever we believe and vote according to whatever we believe.

[JustAStupidKid]

lets try attacking the arguments and not the people here. This debate turned into a fight over semantics. You have the right to free speach including talking about your religions and your politics and your beliefs all you want, the difference is when your religion becomes a part of my public policy is when the separation of church and state has crossed the line. Anyway i'm not going to bother arguing with you guys, peace.

[rufiocardtime]

lets try attacking the arguments and not the people here. This debate turned into a fight over semantics. You have the right to free speach including talking about your religions and your politics and your beliefs all you want, the difference is when your religion becomes a part of my public policy is when the separation of church and state has crossed the line. Anyway i'm not going to bother arguing with you guys, peace.

you're somewhat right on and somewhat not. read my first post.

the freedom of religion was a theistic/christian idea. religious beliefs played a big role in how this country was set up. all the freedoms that we enjoy were heavily influenced by "religious" ideas.

[rockxyourxhole]

but instead they gave us the freedom to impose our beliefs on whoever we wish and the freedom to deny any beliefs that we wish to deny, hence the freedom of speech and the freedom of religion.

that means we can speak about whatever we believe and impose it on whoever we believe and vote according to whatever we believe.
Are you serious? Please be joking. How does "freedom of speach" equal "denying beliefs"?? I really think my brain just melted trying to comprehend this amount of stupidity.

I think (and sincerely hope, because if not I just give up) we're talking about two very different things. You can believe whatever you want. That's what the constitution and our laws say. And you can elect whatever racist closed minded bigot you want that supports your beliefs. Just like I can elect whatever bleeding heart flip flopping spineless tree hugging hippy I want that supports mine.

Believing something is right and moral DOES NOT EQUAL forcing other people to comply with those beliefs. It's as simple as that. I really don't know how you don't see that "they gave us the freedom to impose our beliefs on whoever we wish and the freedom to deny any beliefs that we wish to deny, hence the freedom of speech and the freedom of religion." is completely contradictory. You can't have freedom of speach and religion AND impose your religion on others. Yours is the most contradictory and nonsensical logic I think I've ever heard.

[rufiocardtime]

Are you serious? Please be joking. How does "freedom of speach" equal "denying beliefs"?? I really think my brain just melted trying to comprehend this amount of stupidity.

I think (and sincerely hope, because if not I just give up) we're talking about two very different things. You can believe whatever you want. That's what the constitution and our laws say. And you can elect whatever racist closed minded bigot you want that supports your beliefs. Just like I can elect whatever bleeding heart flip flopping spineless tree hugging hippy I want that supports mine.

Believing something is right and moral DOES NOT EQUAL forcing other people to comply with those beliefs. It's as simple as that. I really don't know how you don't see that "they gave us the freedom to impose our beliefs on whoever we wish and the freedom to deny any beliefs that we wish to deny, hence the freedom of speech and the freedom of religion." is completely contradictory. You can't have freedom of speach and religion AND impose your religion on others. Yours is the most contradictory and nonsensical logic I think I've ever heard.

listen...

what do people do when they make laws?

they take their personal belief(s) and impose them on our legislative system by casting their vote which in turn becomes public policy. personal belief ALWAYS influences legislature. by voting, you are trying to impose your own set of beliefs on everybody else. EVERYBODY imposes their beliefs - just as the founding fathers had certain beliefs that they imposed on the constitution of this country. it's natural. it's normal. everybody has their own set of beliefs and always thinks that their beliefs are better than everybody else's - just as, if you didn't think that your own beliefs were better than mine, you would probably adopt my beliefs. thus, right now you are trying to impose your system of beliefs onto me.

our country imposes all sorts of beliefs on murderers and rapists and other criminals by not allowing them a right to murder and rape and commit felonies. but YES, that IS an imposition of someone's ideas onto somebody else. obviously, rapists would rather keep raping than have my idea of justice imposed on them. you can extend that logic to every other area of law making.

(and for the record, i don't advocate racism, closed-mindedness, or bigotry.)

[xabadstarrx]

wow those kids should have spared themselves embarrassment by admitting at the beginning that they know NOTHING about politics. i dont know that much but i dont go around acting like i do. those kids look like they are highly influenced by eachother. they have no opinion of their own.

[rockxyourxhole]

our country imposes all sorts of beliefs on murderers and rapists and other criminals by not allowing them a right to murder and rape and commit felonies. but YES, that IS an imposition of someone's ideas onto somebody else. obviously, rapists would rather keep raping than have my idea of justice imposed on them. you can extend that logic to every other area of law making.
A person's rights end when their actions affect the people around them. Raping and killing and stealing is infringing on another person's right to life, liberty and happiness.

[rufiocardtime]

A person's rights end when their actions affect the people around them. Raping and killing and stealing is infringing on another person's right to life, liberty and happiness.

I agree, except I think that a woman's rights should end the day that she infringes on her baby's right to life. I really don't care what kind of excuse or justification she has for taking it.

[rockxyourxhole]

I agree, except I think that a woman's rights should end the day that she infringes on her baby's right to life. I really don't care what kind of excuse or justification she has for taking it.
No one knows when exactly life starts. Luckily for you, you'll never have to make that decision.

[rufiocardtime]

No one knows when exactly life starts. Luckily for you, you'll never have to make that decision.

Life starts at the moment of conception. The life inside your womb has its own set of DNA, not your set of DNA. It's clearly it's own organism. Good thing I do make that decision, because it influences how I vote.

[rockxyourxhole]

Life starts at the moment of conception. The life inside your womb has its own set of DNA, not your set of DNA. It's clearly it's own organism. Good thing I do make that decision, because it influences how I vote.
Has there been any research demonstratring without a doubt that life starts at conception? No. I feel bad for any woman you date or marry that you impregnate that does not want to have a child.

[rufiocardtime]

Has there been any research demonstratring without a doubt that life starts at conception? No. I feel bad for any woman you date or marry that you impregnate that does not want to have a child.

That's why I act like a responsible person and have safe-sex and don't have mess around with chicks that are THAT immature.

Everybody knows that life starts at conception. It's a new organism inside another organism. It's a completely separate life form than the mother. It has it's own DNA. There's been plenty of research.

I feel much worse for the men who have to sit back and watch their children get killed because some idiot woman takes the liberty upon herself to abort the child without gving an consideration to the father of the child. I don't feel bad for any woman that thinks killing her child is going to improve the quality of her life or the life inside her.

[rockxyourxhole]

That's why I act like a responsible person and have safe-sex and don't have mess around with chicks that are THAT immature.

Everybody knows that life starts at conception. It's a new organism inside another organism. It's a completely separate life form than the mother. It has it's own DNA. There's been plenty of research.

I feel much worse for the men who have to sit back and watch their children get killed because some idiot woman takes the liberty upon herself to abort the child without gving an consideration to the father of the child. I don't feel bad for any woman that thinks killing her child is going to improve the quality of her life or the life inside her.
Ugh. I didn't see this or I would have answered sooner.

You're a complete idiot. Having an abortion isn't immature. In fact, it's far more irresponsible to force a 13 year old to not have an abortion and then raise that child. There are plenty of "mature" women who have abortions. Women who are already mothers and don't want another child, women who's jobs would be in jeopardy if they had to take a leave of absence, women who *know* they can't financially support a child at the moment. Accidents happen. You can do everything right wrt birth control and still get pregnant. I know women who have had their tubes tied and have still gotten pregant.

It's not just about the quality of the mother, but the quality of life of the child. One thing that really frustrates me about conservatives is that they go on and on about how abortions are immoral and how every life is precious and shouldn't go to waste and all that crap, but then when it comes to actually helping single mothers or low income families who couldn't afford an abortion and now have to have another child, well now it's an entirely different story and these people are at fault and *want* to be poor and on welfare and they just have to suck it up. Compassionate conservativsm my ass.

[rufiocardtime]

Ugh. I didn't see this or I would have answered sooner.

You're a complete idiot. Having an abortion isn't immature. In fact, it's far more irresponsible to force a 13 year old to not have an abortion and then raise that child. There are plenty of "mature" women who have abortions. Women who are already mothers and don't want another child, women who's jobs would be in jeopardy if they had to take a leave of absence, women who *know* they can't financially support a child at the moment. Accidents happen. You can do everything right wrt birth control and still get pregnant. I know women who have had their tubes tied and have still gotten pregant.

It's not just about the quality of the mother, but the quality of life of the child. One thing that really frustrates me about conservatives is that they go on and on about how abortions are immoral and how every life is precious and shouldn't go to waste and all that crap, but then when it comes to actually helping single mothers or low income families who couldn't afford an abortion and now have to have another child, well now it's an entirely different story and these people are at fault and *want* to be poor and on welfare and they just have to suck it up. Compassionate conservativsm my ass.

Yes, having an abortion is extremely immature. You need to shut the fuck up and stop acting like "13 year olds" are FORCED to raise their children. The reason that women have abortions has nothing to do with that little rant you just went on. There are thousands of GREAT parents that are willing and looking for children to adopt. There are waiting lists. Nobody acts like women have to suck it up and raise the child themselves, although that would be nice. You give women everywhere a bad name.

[rockxyourxhole]

Yes, having an abortion is extremely immature. You need to shut the fuck up and stop acting like "13 year olds" are FORCED to raise their children. The reason that women have abortions has nothing to do with that little rant you just went on. There are thousands of GREAT parents that are willing and looking for children to adopt. There are waiting lists. Nobody acts like women have to suck it up and raise the child themselves, although that would be nice. You give women everywhere a bad name.
A pregnant 13-year-old girl in Florida has been told she cannot have an abortion because she lacks the maturity to make such a decision. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4500245.stm) Yes, that's right, lets make a *child* have a baby. Because Florida did such a great job of taking care of her . That is disgusting and wrong on so many levels.

By cutting medicaid and welfare we *are* abandoning single mothers and low-income families. Americans like to think that everything is perfect and everyone is driving SUVs and has one job that pays enough for their wife to stay in their suburban home. But the reality is that more and more people are dropping below the poverty line and we are not helping them. Both parents have to work at least one job and might not be able to give their kids the attention they deserve. Now you want them to have another kid and struggle more? That is morally irresponsible.

Since aparently, you know so much about everything, including when life starts (even though scientists can't come up with a concrete answer), pray tell, what are the reasons a woman has an abortion? You obviously have talked with several women who have had abortions for different reasons at different times in their lives and have great insight on the psyche of women in general. You need to shut the fuck up and stop acting like you know anything about having an abortion or being pregnant *or* raising a child. You are a mysogonistic asshole.

[rufiocardtime]

A pregnant 13-year-old girl in Florida has been told she cannot have an abortion because she lacks the maturity to make such a decision. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4500245.stm) Yes, that's right, lets make a *child* have a baby. Because Florida did such a great job of taking care of her . That is disgusting and wrong on so many levels.

By cutting medicaid and welfare we *are* abandoning single mothers and low-income families. Americans like to think that everything is perfect and everyone is driving SUVs and has one job that pays enough for their wife to stay in their suburban home. But the reality is that more and more people are dropping below the poverty line and we are not helping them. Both parents have to work at least one job and might not be able to give their kids the attention they deserve. Now you want them to have another kid and struggle more? That is morally irresponsible.

Since aparently, you know so much about everything, including when life starts (even though scientists can't come up with a concrete answer), pray tell, what are the reasons a woman has an abortion? You obviously have talked with several women who have had abortions for different reasons at different times in their lives and have great insight on the psyche of women in general. You need to shut the fuck up and stop acting like you know anything about having an abortion or being pregnant *or* raising a child. You are a mysogonistic asshole.


My sister has had two abortions. One of my brother's has gotten two different girls pregnant and both of them have had abortions. My other brother got a girl pregnant. She had an abortion and lied to him about the whole thing. One of my best friends got his girlfriend pregnant in high school and her parents told her that if she didn't abort the baby, they would cut her off financially and kick her out of their house. She had the abortion against my friend's wishes. Additionally, my dad divorced my mom 2 years after I was born. I know quite well what it's like to raise a child as a single mother and I'm quite familiar with abortion issues on a personal level (probably way more than you are). Girls have abortions because they think exactly like you. They feel like children could be an inconvenience to their lives, and therefore fight for a right to choose not to have them even after they're already pregnant.

I'm glad that you can look at life like it's a matter of convenience. It almost makes me want to adopt your viewpoint and look at you as a HUGE inconvenience to the world and I kind of wish that your mother had chosen to abort you, but unfortunately I'm not THAT big of an asshole. I'm not mysoginistic, I just think you're a huge dumbass and a disgrace to women throughout this country and the world. I mean, dear God, we would never want a parent to have to struggle to raise a child! *ghasp* That would be too great of a sacrifice. For Pete's sake, they might drop below the poverty line and life as we know it would be over!!! So we'll just have unprotected sex like morons and if a pregnancy falls in our lap, we'll just abort the baby. That sounds like an amazing solution to our problem. Actually, I think YOU are disgusting and wrong on so many levels.

We live in a free-enterprise economy. We are not a socialist country. If you don't like it, you would probably be better off moving to a county that IS socialist rather than pushing your socialist ideas onto a capitalist society. The likelihood of our country changing its foundational ideas for idiots like you is pretty slim. It isn't our government's job to be a charitable organization. They are not responsible for pampering old people or making sure that certain individuals don't drop below the poverty line.

[rockxyourxhole]

Girls have abortions because they think exactly like you. They feel like children could be an inconvenience to their lives, and therefore fight for a right to choose not to have them even after they're already pregnant.
...
So we'll just have unprotected sex like morons and if a pregnancy falls in our lap, we'll just abort the baby. That sounds like an amazing solution to our problem.

They are not responsible for pampering old people or making sure that certain individuals don't drop below the poverty line.
It's not about a child being an inconvenience. It's about whether or not the mother has the resources to take care of and raise a child. You act like deciding to get an abortion is as deciding what to order at McDonnalds when in reality it is a hard decision to make, even if you know it's the right one for you.

Since according to you the government shouldn't help people at all, why do you want to put more financial and emotional stress on a family by forcing them to have another child? To me that's just morally irresponsible. Maybe your brothers were morons and had unprotected sex, but like I said before, there are many people who do everything right and still end up pregnant. The majority of women who have an abortion aren't using it as a regular form of birth control.

Oh yeah, we're really pampering our senior citizens with our medicaire program. *rolleyes* Please. It is disgusting how our government gives more money (which we don't have) to the richest segment of our population while people starve. You're a disgrace to humans for thinking that a woman shouldn't have any say on how she lives her life.

[rufiocardtime]

It's not about a child being an inconvenience. It's about whether or not the mother has the resources to take care of and raise a child. You act like deciding to get an abortion is as deciding what to order at McDonnalds when in reality it is a hard decision to make, even if you know it's the right one for you.

Since according to you the government shouldn't help people at all, why do you want to put more financial and emotional stress on a family by forcing them to have another child? To me that's just morally irresponsible. Maybe your brothers were morons and had unprotected sex, but like I said before, there are many people who do everything right and still end up pregnant. The majority of women who have an abortion aren't using it as a regular form of birth control.

Oh yeah, we're really pampering our senior citizens with our medicaire program. *rolleyes* Please. It is disgusting how our government gives more money (which we don't have) to the richest segment of our population while people starve. You're a disgrace to humans for thinking that a woman shouldn't have any say on how she lives her life.

Dang, you're really getting me good. I have no problem with women deciding how they life their lives, I just have a problem with them deciding the fate of somebody else's life (the child inside her).

I didn't say our government shouldn't help people. I said it shouldn't be a charitable organization. Our government is by the people, for the people, but that doesn't mean babysitting the financial desicions of every individual to make sure that they have "enough" money and health insurance and were responsible enough to save for their own retirement and whatever else you think every American should be entitled to regardless of any bad decisions they've made.

How would getting an abortion be more beneficial than giving the child up for adoption? And do you think that women should have the option of having an abortion when they aren't even practicing safe sex...? Doing everything right is called "absistence" when you don't want children.

I'm ending this debate because you're not the least bit wise or challenging. You're an atheist for Christ's sake. What a joke. (Yes, I am implying that I don't take atheism seriously. This is where you act "offended".)

I'll give you the last word.