British National Party appearance on TV tonight (UK Politics)

[denissuxx]

The leader of the British National Party (BNP) will be appearing on the BBC tonight, at 10.35pm. As can be expected, there were huge protests outside the BBC studios earlier today (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8321157.stm).

Anyone plan on watching? Should be pretty interesting...

Here's the party's website (http://bnp.org.uk/tempsite/), for anyone who wants more information on their controversial policies

[joe has a cat]

Anywhere to watch it online?

[denissuxx]

Anywhere to watch it online?

Probably not live... it'll be on BBC iPlayer tomorrow... probably Youtube too

[My Broken Fever]

I don't think I'll watch, but I think the BBC is right not yielding to the demands for censorship from some politicians.

[secretsociety92]

The leader of the British National Party (BNP) will be appearing on the BBC tonight, at 10pm. As can be expected, there were huge protests outside the BBC studios earlier today (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8321157.stm).

Anyone plan on watching? Should be pretty interesting...

Here's the party's website (http://bnp.org.uk/tempsite/), for anyone who wants more information on their controversial policies
10.35pm actually and yes I will be watching and can't wait to see him get asked on everything apart from immigration and show him and his party as a one horse party. You could of posted this in the main BNP thread.

[denissuxx]

I don't think I'll watch, but I think the BBC is right not yielding to the demands for censorship from some politicians.

I don't really agree... I'd rather they didn't get all this attention from the media. The BBC argued that they must remain objective and let everyone have a voice, eh.

10.35pm actually and yes I will be watching and can't wait to see him get asked on everything apart from immigration and show him and his party as a one horse party. You could of posted this in the main BNP thread.

Damn, didn't see one of those.. :hitself:

[secretsociety92]

I don't really agree... I'd rather they didn't get all this attention from the media. The BBC argued that they must remain objective and let everyone have a voice, eh.



Damn, didn't see one of those.. :hitself:
That is why you use the search function, anyways glad I am not the only one concerned about this. I wish I could of got down to the protest at the studio.

[denissuxx]

That is why you use the search function, anyways glad I am not the only one concerned about this. I wish I could of got down to the protest at the studio.

Yeah, I think it's ridiculous. The sad thing is, a lot of people do agree with and will vote for them. More publicity = more votes.

[SomedayTheFire]

Aren't the BNP like the Brokencyde of British politics?

[MyWorldEntire]

Can't believe the BBC is letting this happen.

[My Broken Fever]

Can't believe the BBC is letting this happen.
They're supposed to be free of bias, that means they can't just decide to censor a party out.

[secretsociety92]

Yeah, I think it's ridiculous. The sad thing is, a lot of people do agree with and will vote for them. More publicity = more votes.

Yeah well I know the type of people who will vote for these, white working class people as the BNP will say all sorts of stuff do with immigration and how it will save money and they will buy into it. The fact of the matter is our country depends on three main econimies - Retail, Tourism and Banks. Not one of these trades that come in from a different coloured country will invest in our country if he comes into power and we will be ruined.

[MyWorldEntire]

They're supposed to be free of bias, that means they can't just decide to censor a party out.

Fascism deserves to be censored.

[denissuxx]

Aren't the BNP like the Brokencyde of British politics?

...

Yeah well I know the type of people who will vote for these, white working class people as the BNP will say all sorts of stuff do with immigration and how it will save money and they will buy into it. The fact of the matter is our country depends on three main econimies - Retail, Tourism and Banks. Not one of these trades that come in from a different coloured country will invest in our country if he comes into power and we will be ruined.

You're right - immigration is absolutely essential for the economy, particularly in shitty industries which have gaps in the workforce... which immigrants are happy to fill.

Fascism deserves to be censored.

This x1000000000000000

[My Broken Fever]

Fascism deserves to be censored.
The term fascism is notouriously cloudy and politically unclear, I wouldn't call the BNP fascist (but that's nitpicking), I'd call them xenophobic and racist. But it is not the job of the BBC to have an opinion about these things; the BBC is supposed to inform on matters without bias. They aren't making it easy for the BNP, they have been very critical, as they should be, towards those populists. But it's not their job to censor.

And if there ever was an enemy and killer of those silly populist parties that pop up far too often it is critical and good information about them.

[secretsociety92]

...



You're right - immigration is absolutely essential for the economy, particularly in shitty industries which have gaps in the workforce... which immigrants are happy to fill.



This x1000000000000000
Exactly right. I do agree however that we have to slow down the rate of immigration as I am sure you have heard we are supposed to have a population of more than 71 million in less than 25 years which will also bring us down but stopping immigration and taking everyone out who isn't white or british would be a lot worse and ruin relations with a lot of countries, I mean the USA would more than likely cease to do business with us if the BNP gains power.

[denissuxx]

Point I'd like to bring up: (I could get figures to support my arguement, but I am too lazy)

Global financial crisis >>> People unhappy with government >>> High unemployment in Germany >>> Nazi party's rising popularity
Global financial crisis >>> Current governement is hardly popular >>> highest unemployment since the 80's (?) >>> X-)

[My Broken Fever]

Point I'd like to bring up: (I could get figures to support my arguement, but I am too lazy)

Global financial crisis >>> People unhappy with government >>> High unemployment in Germany >>> Nazi party's rising popularity
Global financial crisis >>> Current governement is hardly popular >>> highest unemployment since the 80's (?) >>> X-) The situation in the UK is nowhere near as bad as Germany circa the 1930's, and the UK also doesn't have to pay ridiculous amounts of money because of the Treaty of Versailles. The crisis in the 30's was a crisis of poverty, the one we have now is a crisis of welfare. Populists will always be around, but luckily they don't function in any government. And if I'm not wrong they're nowhere near the Tories in the polls.

[denissuxx]

Exactly right. I do agree however that we have to slow down the rate of immigration as I am sure you have heard we are supposed to have a population of more than 71 million in less than 25 years which will also bring us down but stopping immigration and taking everyone out who isn't white or british would be a lot worse and ruin relations with a lot of countries, I mean the USA would more than likely cease to do business with us if the BNP gains power.

I believe that the immigration policies are strict and efficient. However, immigration is currently going up.. and has got to be slowed down. It's a tough issue.

I hope that common sense would prevail and they would never be able to gain power. I hope..

[denissuxx]

The situation in the UK is nowhere near as bad as Germany circa the 1930's

It's an exaggerated example.. but they are undeniable parallels.

[alice+interiors]

Parallels, maybe - but it isn't the economic situation that's causing the BNP's rise in popularity.. it's more to do with the mass influx (seemingly unlimited) of foreign immigrants over the past 10-15 years. The BNP are basically Combo/This Is England, just a few years after the initial indignation about immigrants has died down.

edit: I think, though, that as black people continued to be voted to victory in things like X Factor and Britain's Got Talent - which probably total more voters together than most British elections - we won't be seeing them play any major part in British politics of the near future. The BNP are just better at getting people up and motivated to actually vote - as their followers are those most passionate and vindicated for their cause.

[denissuxx]

Parallels, maybe - but it isn't the economic situation that's causing the BNP's rise in popularity.. it's more to do with the mass influx (seemingly unlimited) of foreign immigrants over the past 10-15 years. The BNP are basically Combo/This Is England, just a few years after the initial indignation about immigrants has died down.

You're right that the economic situation isn't the main reason, although it is a huge factor. The economic climates makes it tough to find employment, and some foreign workers may have jobs while native British workers are unemployed. It gives them grounds to stand on

edit: I think, though, that as black people continued to be voted to victory in things like X Factor and Britain's Got Talent - which probably total more voters together than most British elections - we won't be seeing them play any major part in British politics of the near future. The BNP are just better at getting people up and motivated to actually vote - as their followers are those most passionate and vindicated for their cause.

This is ridiculous. It seems to me that you're assuming that only black people vote for black people on the X Factor... what the hell?

Also, in case you didn't know, black people make up 2% of the population.. white people make up 94%.

[Chrisj182]

I'm going to watch this, and as much as I hate what this party stands for, everybody deserves freedom of speech.

[joe has a cat]

I'm going to watch this, and as much as I hate what this party stands for, everybody deserves freedom of speech.

Not hate speech though...

[Sventhegreat]

Why don't you guys use the UK version of AP instead, absobloodylootelypunk.net (http://absobloodylootelypunk.net).

[denissuxx]

Why don't you guys use the UK version of AP instead, absobloodylootelypunk.net (http://absobloodylootelypunk.net).

That's racist.

[Mitch]

Is this the BNP's actual website? http://bnp.org.uk/tempsite/

[EndHasAStart]

No matter how much I or anyone else disagrees with their views, they have a right to be aired. Albeit views that will be torn apart in a democratic panel show. Any censorship would be a very slippery slope. How long till UKIP or the Socialist Workers' Party are banned from tv because their views are too controversial? Sure, they don''t preach hatred but, for example, I bet some Labour ministers could find enough of a problem with UKIP's immigration policy to keep them out of the public eye. Especially if they were threatening a Labour seat at the next election. Which, incidentally, the BNP is in several northern cities.

[Jali]

You know there's not a hope in hell for the BNP ever getting voted in, right? I mean, even if the majority of people do vote for them, do you really expect the civil servants to not rig the vote. If you think we are in a democracy you are very wrong. The civil servants are not voted in with parties and its them that really govern the country. They'd never allow someone as radical as the BNP into office and, even if they did, they wouldn't let them change any laws so radically because they'd be the ones cleaning up after the BNP went away. I hate false democracy and I hate totalitarianism but every cloud has a silver lining and this silver lining happens to be that the BNP won't succeed. Actually, the BNP were more dangerous when they were the NF because all they did then was attack people and burn houses down etc., now all they're doing is trying to obtain a position of power that they will never get without fullscale revolution (which won't happen either, no party is brave enough nor dumb enough to try and overthrow the government, not even one run by Nick Griffin)

[EndHasAStart]

Not hate speech though...

Democracy is democracy. As soon as we limit it to democracy minus people we disagree with, it's no longer democracy. Tonight should actually be the perfect opportunity to make the case against the BNP. And if Nick Griffin comes away with even 1% of the audience on his side, the other political parties have some serious thinking to do.

[denissuxx]

About to start...

[denissuxx]

"we must ensure that race based politics have no place in our society in essential"

:appl:

[joe has a cat]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6410895/BNP-on-BBCs-Question-Time-audience-member-rounds-on-Nick-Griffin.html

[SomedayTheFire]

...


I'm not a fan but the idiots like it? no? . . . no :sadangel:

[denissuxx]

I'm not a fan but the idiots like it? no? . . . no :sadangel:

Haha, that's awful

[SomedayTheFire]

Haha, that's awful
I know. I know. I fail haha, how's the debate going?

[denissuxx]

I know. I know. I fail haha, how's the debate going?

Fascinating. The guy/party is a joke.

[Deadbolt01]

Just gonna copy and paste from other thread, I only just found this one...


These panellists are shit. I hate how they're doing it. Stop avoiding policy questions and stop talking about Griffin like he isn't in the room.

BTW on the BNP in gereral, the whole reason they're gaining support is because the mainstream parties(especially labour) aren't brave enough to talk about immigration which is a big issue for a lot of people. It has to be dealt with, can't keep shying away, even as someone who would call themself liberal would say that overpopulation is a big concern, we're the most densely populated party in europe.


EDIT: aaand now this woman is talking about it, that's better.

[Eostre]

There's nothing wrong with letting him talk, that is correct, let him speak, then prove he's wrong.

He's a sick, twisted man, who twists his words to try and hide the fact he is a racist.

EDIT: Damnit I was expecting more of a debate here!

[Deadbolt01]

Yeah fuck this why's noone talking?

[Eostre]

Shall we spark a debate?

Now it's finished, what were your thoughts on it?

[God damner]

I have a friend living in England, he says it's really stirring things up.

[secretsociety92]

I am actually glad he went on now as he didn't get his facist and racist views in that much and was shown as a liar, a hater of other people and that he doesn't have any policies that are useful to this country.

[denissuxx]

I am actually glad he went on now as he didn't get his facist and racist views in that much and was shown as a liar, a hater of other people and that he doesn't have any policies that are useful to this country.

This.

This has turned out really badly for the BNP.

[secretsociety92]

This.

This has turned out really badly for the BNP.
It has and I have a new favorite American (Bonnie Greer) she showed Griffin up so badly.

[Blaise&Panthia.]

It has and I have a new favorite American (Bonnie Greer) she showed Griffin up so badly.

Hahahah yes. I would happily vote for Bonnie Greer after what she did to Dick Griffin.

[Deadbolt01]

I hated the 'Dick Griffin' etc. jokes, fucking stupid. The BNP get their support from saying that the other parties 'gang up' on them, this really doesn't help. Adds fuel to the 'Us against them' fire.

[secretsociety92]

Hahahah yes. I would happily vote for Bonnie Greer after what she did to Dick Griffin.
Hhaha yeh same. Surprised she hasn't gotten into politics as she can certainly get people to listen and think about issues.

[eights]

here for anyone who wants to see the Griffin heavy questions/responses

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/oct/22/bnp-nick-griffin-question-time

[denissuxx]

It has and I have a new favorite American (Bonnie Greer) she showed Griffin up so badly.

She was amazing. The audience were pretty good too... that guy who said "where do you want me to go" or something.

I found the part about gaining trust and support, then changing policies quite disturbing. It mirrors something...

[denissuxx]

I hated the 'Dick Griffin' etc. jokes, fucking stupid. The BNP get their support from saying that the other parties 'gang up' on them, this really doesn't help. Adds fuel to the 'Us against them' fire.

That was funny, as was the fact that the guy tried to do it in an accidental fashion.

[secretsociety92]

She was amazing. The audience were pretty good too... that guy who said "where do you want me to go" or something.

I found the part about gaining trust and support, then changing policies quite disturbing. It mirrors something...
I liked it when that same guy said I am sure a fair amount of people would have a whip round and give you a ticket out of this country.

[Deadbolt01]

That was funny, as was the fact that the guy tried to do it in an accidental fashion.
slightly funny, but negative in effect.

[denissuxx]

I liked it when that same guy said I am sure a fair amount of people would have a whip round and give you a ticket out of this country.

I'd give a pound or two :shrug:

[secretsociety92]

I'd give a pound or two :shrug:
I would give the rest of my EMA for the year to get him out.

[Deadbolt01]

I would give the rest of my EMA for the year to get him out.
High fives on EMA.

[secretsociety92]

High fives on EMA.
Hahah yeh.

[Deadbolt01]

Y'all should get in the €urokids thread by the way.

[Eostre]

I thought it was great to watch Nick Griffin metaphorically fisted on national television.

Makes me wonder why I don't watch it more often haha.

EDIT: Link?

[secretsociety92]

I thought it was great to watch Nick Griffin metaphorically fisted on national television.

Makes me wonder why I don't watch it more often haha.

EDIT: Link?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00nft24/Question_Time_22_10_2009/

[SomedayTheFire]

So how was it? Not up on my British politics but hopefully it went badly for the BNP

[paper halo]

Can't believe I missed this. Damn work. Glad to hear Griffin was destroyed, didn't really expect anything different.

[thehereaway]

So how was it? Not up on my British politics but hopefully it went badly for the BNP

They pretty much made him look like a joke.

[thursday727]

isn't the BNP the one's responsible for turning alot of the Skinhead movement racist? I only know that from watching This Is England(which is an amazing movie)

[MorningStar10]

This was brilliant, Jack Straw came off just as bad as Griffin in my opinion.
Loved how they put Griffin next to a black woman, who owned him in every argument.

And he called BBC 'Ultra-Leftist' and then tried to deny the holocaust by saying there was no proof as it was 'intercepted by phone calls'.

[Chrisj182]

isn't the BNP the one's responsible for turning alot of the Skinhead movement racist? I only know that from watching This Is England(which is an amazing movie)

That was the National Front, who the BNP were a split from. The leader Nick Griffin, was a memeber of the Front in the 80's.

[thehereaway]

Just gonna copy and paste from other thread, I only just found this one...


These panellists are shit. I hate how they're doing it. Stop avoiding policy questions and stop talking about Griffin like he isn't in the room.

BTW on the BNP in gereral, the whole reason they're gaining support is because the mainstream parties(especially labour) aren't brave enough to talk about immigration which is a big issue for a lot of people. It has to be dealt with, can't keep shying away, even as someone who would call themself liberal would say that overpopulation is a big concern, we're the most densely populated party in europe.


EDIT: aaand now this woman is talking about it, that's better.

Yeah, absolutely. A question regarding immigration was posed to Jack Straw last night, and he didn't outline any policies or anything, he seemed to just shy away from it - I was quite disappointed. On their website, Labour's policies on immigration and asylum look pretty decent, but it doesn't feel like they deliver on any of them.

The Conservative MP, whose name i've forgotten, impressed me quite a bit on this issue though. I don't think Jack Straw has helped Labour's case by going into a debate like this, which was always clearly going to deal heavily on immigration etc, unprepared to talk about Labour's policies and stance toward it.

At least Nick Griffin was exposed for the horrible person he is last night. He claims he has 'changed his mind' on a lot of controversial issues, such as the holocaust denial, but he is only going back on his word now to try and seduce the mainstream electorate to vote for the BNP - which won't happen because people can see through his bullshit.

[al.is.on]

Why don't you guys use the UK version of AP instead, absobloodylootelypunk.net (http://absobloodylootelypunk.net).

Why dont you guys start spelling colour correctly?

[Kyle Huntington]

Can't believe I missed this. Damn work. Glad to hear Griffin was destroyed, didn't really expect anything different.
It's on iPlayer now, I'mw atching it as we speak.

This was brilliant, Jack Straw came off just as bad as Griffin in my opinion.
Loved how they put Griffin next to a black woman, who owned him in every argument.

And he called BBC 'Ultra-Leftist' and then tried to deny the holocaust by saying there was no proof as it was 'intercepted by phone calls'.
Obviously not in any way defending him but I just watched that part and he was saying that the reason he now believes the holocaust happened is because he heard intercepted phone calls between Nazi's in Germany. The fact that he didn't "believe" it happened in the first place is fucking disgraceful.

[Metal Now]

This was an awesome debate, Griffin really got shown for who he was. My highlight was:

"..You shared the stage with the head of a branch of the Ku Klux Klan."

"Yes, but a non-violent branch".

..... Cock.

[Hiroki]

BBC trying to be impartial didn't really work out.......it was a witch hunt from start to finish and the bloke never even stood a chance.
He never really got to explain himself or his party and he is well within his rights to seek damages from the BBC as it was a disgrace.

[secretsociety92]

Love the fact he is complaining about what happened, he is only saying it because he didn't get his own way and got showed up for what he really is.

[Hiroki]

Love the fact he is complaining about what happened, he is only saying it because he didn't get his own way and got showed up for what he really is.
How can you say that when he never really got a chance to have his say without some tart jumping in?

[secretsociety92]

How can you say that when he never really got a chance to have his say without some tart jumping in?
That tart as you call her is someone I would rather listen to than that facist man who thinks he can get his own way no matter what happens, it helped their shitty party anyway so why is he complaining because he knows 8 million people saw what he is like.

[Hiroki]

That tart as you call her is someone I would rather listen to than that facist man who thinks he can get his own way no matter what happens, it helped their shitty party anyway so why is he complaining because he knows 8 million people saw what he is like.
Becasue from start to finish it was all bias against the party which it shouldn't have been so he has every right to complain.

It's an important issue and people need to hear from the BNP like we need to hear from the other parties. Not like the BNP is ever going to get into power so there is no reason for people to be frightened of them.

[secretsociety92]

Becasue from start to finish it was all bias against the party which it shouldn't have been so he has every right to complain.

It's an important issue and people need to hear from the BNP like we need to hear from the other parties. Not like the BNP is ever going to get into power so there is no reason for people to be frightened of them.
Not bias to the party, just showing them for who they really are. Would you rather no one knew who they really are and voted for them out of pure anger against other parties.

[Hiroki]

Not bias to the party, just showing them for who they really are. Would you rather no one knew who they really are and voted for them out of pure anger against other parties.
People do vote from them against anger towards the other parties - that and the fact that some of what they say makes sence.

Still the BBC never gave them a chance which is bang out of order.

[Chrisj182]

People do vote from them against anger towards the other parties - that and the fact that some of what they say makes sence.

Still the BBC never gave them a chance which is bang out of order.

I'm glad someone sees that aswell, we discussed this in politics today, that was the general consensus by most people.

[Deadbolt01]

_QAvkFS_cgk

ha. Now that its sunk inl I think the BNP probably gained more supporters than they lost, so all in all bad job from the panellists. Should have asked about his policies on other things than race and immigration, would have had nowhere to go. Jack Straw is an idiot for again shying away from immigration.

[denissuxx]

_QAvkFS_cgk

This is incredible.

[alice+interiors]

You're right that the economic situation isn't the main reason, although it is a huge factor. The economic climates makes it tough to find employment, and some foreign workers may have jobs while native British workers are unemployed. It gives them grounds to stand on



This is ridiculous. It seems to me that you're assuming that only black people vote for black people on the X Factor... what the hell?

Also, in case you didn't know, black people make up 2% of the population.. white people make up 94%.
No no - not your fault, I wasn't clear about this:

What I meant was the fact that the winners are black and are being voted for, as you said, by a white majority, I think it's pretty clear this country isn't at a stage where the type of racism/bigotry the BNP stand for is going to be voted into power anytime soon.

[alice+interiors]

Also there's a lot of people missing the point, I feel.. the phrase 'no such thing as negative publicity' springs to mind - and let's face it, everyone is talking about it. Nick Griffin wasn't totally wiped clean last night - the audience was clearly handpicked and smacked of being fully prepared with cue cards and the like. The BNP are the only ones who are going to profit from last night.. especially compared the bunch of fucking idiots Nick Griffin was sat beside.

I'd also like to point out that the point of Question Time is to address topical issues. Was there any discussion about the postal strikes? No. Was there any mention of the decision facing President Obama about Afghanistan over the next week? No. Was there any mention of the Coroners Injustice/Secret Inquest Bills that are passing through the House of Lords today/tomorrow? No. - Just a thought.

[Smeee]

_QAvkFS_cgk

[secretsociety92]

People do vote from them against anger towards the other parties - that and the fact that some of what they say makes sence.

Still the BBC never gave them a chance which is bang out of order.
BBC gave them a chance and they have said they have gained 3000 new members since last night and none of what he says makes sense (that is how you spell it) because he basically wants to cut us off from the rest of the world.

[Kyle Huntington]

Also there's a lot of people missing the point, I feel.. the phrase 'no such thing as negative publicity' springs to mind - and let's face it, everyone is talking about it. Nick Griffin wasn't totally wiped clean last night - the audience was clearly handpicked and smacked of being fully prepared with cue cards and the like. The BNP are the only ones who are going to profit from last night.. especially compared the bunch of fucking idiots Nick Griffin was sat beside.

I'd also like to point out that the point of Question Time is to address topical issues. Was there any discussion about the postal strikes? No. Was there any mention of the decision facing President Obama about Afghanistan over the next week? No. Was there any mention of the Coroners Injustice/Secret Inquest Bills that are passing through the House of Lords today/tomorrow? No. - Just a thought.
Agreed, although it was inevitable with him on the panel, as David Dimbleby said, that it would be largely about the BNP. There was no escaping that unfortunately and it left the last 3 minutes to be about Jan Moir's article.
_QAvkFS_cgk
Cool repost from about three posts up.

[Hiroki]

BBC gave them a chance and they have said they have gained 3000 new members since last night and none of what he says makes sense (that is how you spell it) because he basically wants to cut us off from the rest of the world.
Which needs to happen really to change how shit this country has become.

A lot of the ideas around imigration and the way of life here makes a lot of sense and we need a politcal party that could impliment some of the BNP's ideas but in a sensible way.

In the end the BBC didn't give the BNP a chance which is why the complaint went in.

[secretsociety92]

Which needs to happen really to change how shit this country has become.

A lot of the ideas around imigration and the way of life here makes a lot of sense and we need a politcal party that could impliment some of the BNP's ideas but in a sensible way.

In the end the BBC didn't give the BNP a chance which is why the complaint went in.
This country hasn't turned to shit because of immigration, it has turned into shit because of the same government for 12 years. Shutting us off from the rest of the world will only make things worse. My town for instance relies on tourism, what foreigner would come to a country where people are kicked out of the country and abused because their colour, no one would so is that going to sort out my town's economy, no it isn't and it would be the same with banks investing in this country and the same for other areas. The complaint went in because he clearly lost in the debate and was shown as a facist, racist one horse politician.

[yves.]

watching this on youtube now, griffin is disgusting.

[Hiroki]

This country hasn't turned to shit because of immigration, it has turned into shit because of the same government for 12 years. Shutting us off from the rest of the world will only make things worse. My town for instance relies on tourism, what foreigner would come to a country where people are kicked out of the country and abused because their colour, no one would so is that going to sort out my town's economy, no it isn't and it would be the same with banks investing in this country and the same for other areas. The complaint went in because he clearly lost in the debate and was shown as a facist, racist one horse politician.
My town is full of forigners and speaking English is a rarity and it makes you feel like a stranger in your own town and something needs to be done and it goes beyong having the stale government because hey it was happening with the last government too.

We do need to do something about imigration because it is slowly killing the country and is making people from this country feel neglected and is making them play into the hands of the BNP.

And yes it is because the BBC didn't give him a chance but lets agree to disagree?

[Deadbolt01]

Also there's a lot of people missing the point, I feel.. the phrase 'no such thing as negative publicity' springs to mind - and let's face it, everyone is talking about it. Nick Griffin wasn't totally wiped clean last night - the audience was clearly handpicked and smacked of being fully prepared with cue cards and the like. The BNP are the only ones who are going to profit from last night.. especially compared the bunch of fucking idiots Nick Griffin was sat beside.

I'd also like to point out that the point of Question Time is to address topical issues. Was there any discussion about the postal strikes? No. Was there any mention of the decision facing President Obama about Afghanistan over the next week? No. Was there any mention of the Coroners Injustice/Secret Inquest Bills that are passing through the House of Lords today/tomorrow? No. - Just a thought.
Yeah I agree. And for that reason the best bit of the debate was the Jan Moir topic. The panellists spoke about their own moral stance on the matter leaving Griffin to go off on one about 'militant homosexuals', which is what should have happened throughout. Instead, the panel seemed perfectly happy to back Griffin into a corner, playing into his hands nicely as he can victimise himself(which he has done)which will add determination to supporters. His lack of competence in the debate made it fairly clear that he will never get into power, just a worry if a party like the BNP ever gets a confident, charasmatic leader and we deal with them the same way we've tried to deal with NG.

[secretsociety92]

My town is full of forigners and speaking English is a rarity and it makes you feel like a stranger in your own town and something needs to be done and it goes beyong having the stale government because hey it was happening with the last government too.

We do need to do something about imigration because it is slowly killing the country and is making people from this country feel neglected and is making them play into the hands of the BNP.

And yes it is because the BBC didn't give him a chance but lets agree to disagree?
Well I feel proud about this country and the fact that people want to come to this country and who wouldn't great health care, great education, some of the best cities and towns, some beautiful countryside and people like you are ruining the reputation of this country and what this country stands for by being abusive against other people. This country isn't being killed by immigration, it is being aided by it (I agree it needs to be slowed down but we are no way near the breaking point at the moment) as they are bringing more money in than taking out, getting some of the best minds in the world staying our country to help be a better and more equal society. The only people who feel neglected are the ones who are jealous about someone who is more hard working at their job and they lose it. The BBC did give him a chance, just a shame he can't talk about anything other than race, religion and immigration.

[Hiroki]

Well I feel proud about this country and the fact that people want to come to this country and who wouldn't great health care, great education, some of the best cities and towns, some beautiful countryside and people like you are ruining the reputation of this country and what this country stands for by being abusive against other people. This country isn't being killed by immigration, it is being aided by it (I agree it needs to be slowed down but we are no way near the breaking point at the moment) as they are bringing more money in than taking out, getting some of the best minds in the world staying our country to help be a better and more equal society. The only people who feel neglected are the ones who are jealous about someone who is more hard working at their job and they lose it. The BBC did give him a chance, just a shame he can't talk about anything other than race, religion and immigration.
Do you have to deal with this on a daily basis though?
Do you have to deal with endless forigeners getting the first council houses with their 12 kids?
Do you have to deal with the fear that your own child may not get into the school accross the road because he is second to those imigrants?

Probably not since your 17 but this country is being being runined by imigration.

There are a lot of people coming to this country that abuse the system and just take the piss - those are the ones that are dragging the country down.

[Kyle Huntington]

Please start spelling immigrants/immigration correctly.

Also, Tom, well said.

[Hiroki]

Please start spelling immigrants/immigration correctly.

Also, Tom, well said.
My fault but then English isn't my first language and appologise for it

[Kyle Huntington]

My fault but then English isn't my first language and appologise for it
Fair one. What is your first language? Mind me asking?

[Hiroki]

Fair one. What is your first language? Mind me asking?
NP it's German.

Before anyone points it out I am well aware that i'd be on nasty Nick's boat home if they ever got in power

[Deadbolt01]

I don't think this country is being ruined by immigration, I think it has been made good by immigration. However, we are now, without a doubt, multicultural, and it's time to make decisions about how many people the UK can practically cope with with. Griffin's idea to send back people who have come here is very wrong in my opinion, but severely restricting the number of people coming in is necessary or services like the NHS and our education system will not be able to bear the weight, and more people will start polarising and voting for parties like the BNP. It's not the immigrants who are the problem, it's immigration, that's what people have to remember, but the more the government politicians shy way from the immigration issue the more people are going to associate immigrants with problems, and the more racist Brits will become.
I'm proud to live in a multi-ethnic, multi-religious society. It has to be a functioning society, though.

NP it's German.

Before anyone points it out I am well aware that i'd be on nasty Nick's boat home if they ever got in power
So what argument can you possibly have against immigrants?

[Kyle Huntington]

NP it's German.

Before anyone points it out I am well aware that i'd be on nasty Nick's boat home if they ever got in power
Apparently not, he's "totally fine for you to stay here, he wants to stop any more coming in" which as Greer said last night was "very big of him".

[Deadbolt01]

Apparently not, he's "totally fine for you to stay here, he wants to stop any more coming in" which as Greer said last night was "very big of him".
Nah I'm afraid one of Griffin's policies is(or has been since recently, in which I value his opinion even less)to pay immigrants £30,000 to go back.

[Kyle Huntington]

Nah I'm afraid one of Griffin's policies is(or has been since recently, in which I value his opinion even less)to pay immigrants £30,000 to go back.
Ah well proves that the points he did try to justify last night were in fact just pulling the wool over people's eyes, or an attempt to. Who'd have expected anything less.

[Metal Now]

I think the BBC were right to put him on, he has a right to free speech, whatever he believes, and the BNP have been gaining more and more support. Suffocating them would just play into their hands, they want to appear to be a downtrodden majority. Also, I have realised I love Bonnie Greer.

EDIT: Also, and I'm not saying I hold this opinion, but some would argue that if you give them enough rope, they'll hang themselves. The more Griffin speaks, the apparent it becomes that his views are highly confused.

[Deadbolt01]

I think the BBC were right to put him on, he has a right to free speech, whatever he believes, and the BNP have been gaining more and more support. Suffocating them would just play into their hands, they want to appear to be a downtrodden majority. Also, I have realised I love Bonnie Greer.

EDIT: Also, and I'm not saying I hold this opinion, but some would argue that if you give them enough rope, they'll hang themselves. The more Griffin speaks, the apparent it becomes that his views are highly confused.
Well yeah, it's not the BBC who have given them a platform to speak publicly, it's the Britsh people by voting for them in the Euro election so that they won 2 seats.

[Metal Now]

Well yeah, it's not the BBC who have given them a platform to speak publicly, it's the Britsh people by voting for them in the Euro election so that they won 2 seats.

Absolutely, the BBC has a duty to represent every party that's gaining supporters on a national scale.

[secretsociety92]

Do you have to deal with this on a daily basis though?
Do you have to deal with endless forigeners getting the first council houses with their 12 kids?
Do you have to deal with the fear that your own child may not get into the school accross the road because he is second to those imigrants?

Probably not since your 17 but this country is being being runined by imigration.

There are a lot of people coming to this country that abuse the system and just take the piss - those are the ones that are dragging the country down.
Only a small minority are abusing the systems in this country and immigrants have done a lot more good for this country than bad.

[paper halo]

Do you have to deal with this on a daily basis though?
Do you have to deal with endless forigeners getting the first council houses with their 12 kids?
Do you have to deal with the fear that your own child may not get into the school accross the road because he is second to those imigrants?

Probably not since your 17 but this country is being being runined by imigration.

There are a lot of people coming to this country that abuse the system and just take the piss - those are the ones that are dragging the country down.

Oh hai, thinly veiled racism. Did you lift these talking points from the BNP's website or something?

[Deadbolt01]

Only a small minority are abusing the systems in this country and immigrants have done a lot more good for this country than bad.
Word.

[secretsociety92]

Word.
Thanks, another point to be made about people abusing systems. You never see an immigrant family getting £30,000 a year on benefits with no real reason for having them apart from being downright lazy. That is more than my dad earns and he is doing 6pm to 6am, 6 nights a week.

[NeededYouMost]

the only reason why BNP is gaining popularity is because your economy is doing bad and people need something to blame it on. 60 years ago Germany blamed it on the Jews, today the BNP and its supporters blame it on immigrants. Everyone needs a scapegoat, but the truth is, modern civilized societies are designed that one can go from "rags to riches". A man can be poor today and wealthy tomorrow. It happens here all the time. They need something to blame it on, but the truth is, laziness and lack of goals result in being unsuccessful. Choosing a life of mediocrity is a choice, don't blame someone if your boss fires you when you had the option of being your own boss if you would bother to work hard and not settle.
This isn't directed at anyone. Just a rant.
Furthermore, i would like to point out that all societies have bums, middle class, uppermid, and wealthy. The truth is, some people don't have goals to be wealthy, they are fine with simply being above bumdome(lol i made it up). Some people are programed that way, but today's billionaires were not.

there are bands that a year ago formed and today are huge. The people in those bands weren't the type to settle for 1k fans they wanted millions. however there are bands that can never get off the ground........

There are also people that were millionaires one day, lost it all the next, and work hard and get it all back. How can people be wealthy twice before someone can be wealthy once? It's the individual.

[paper halo]

the only reason why BNP is gaining popularity is because your economy is doing bad and people need something to blame it on. 60 years ago Germany blamed it on the Jews, today the BNP and its supporters blame it on immigrants. Everyone needs a scapegoat, but the truth is, modern civilized societies are designed that one can go from "rags to riches". A man can be poor today and wealthy tomorrow. It happens here all the time. They need something to blame it on, but the truth is, laziness and lack of goals result in being unsuccessful. Choosing a life of mediocrity is a choice, don't blame someone if your boss fires you when you had the option of being your own boss if you would bother to work hard and not settle.
This isn't directed at anyone. Just a rant.
Furthermore, i would like to point out that all societies have bums, middle class, uppermid, and wealthy. The truth is, some people don't have goals to be wealthy, they are fine with simply being above bumdome(lol i made it up). Some people are programed that way, but today's billionaires were not.

there are bands that a year ago formed and today are huge. The people in those bands werent the type to settle for 1k fans they wanted millions. however there are bands that can never get off the ground........

This is stupid.

[Deadbolt01]

the only reason why BNP is gaining popularity is because your economy is doing bad and people need something to blame it on. 60 years ago Germany blamed it on the Jews, today the BNP and its supporters blame it on immigrants. Everyone needs a scapegoat, but the truth is, modern civilized societies are designed that one can go from "rags to riches". A man can be poor today and wealthy tomorrow. It happens here all the time. They need something to blame it on, but the truth is, laziness and lack of goals result in being unsuccessful. Choosing a life of mediocrity is a choice, don't blame someone if your boss fires you when you had the option of being your own boss if you would bother to work hard and not settle.
This isn't directed at anyone. Just a rant.
Furthermore, i would like to point out that all societies have bums, middle class, uppermid, and wealthy. The truth is, some people don't have goals to be wealthy, they are fine with simply being above bumdome(lol i made it up). Some people are programed that way, but today's billionaires were not.

there are bands that a year ago formed and today are huge. The people in those bands weren't the type to settle for 1k fans they wanted millions. however there are bands that can never get off the ground........

There are also people that were millionaires one day, lost it all the next, and work hard and get it all back. How can people be wealthy twice before someone can be wealthy once? It's the individual.
Really don't see how any of that relates to the rise of the BNP. Economy, ok maybe thats playing a part but there are reasons behind who people are voting for that wouldn't change regardless of the economic climate. Whats that about choosing mediocrity? how does that come into this at all?

[denissuxx]

No no - not your fault, I wasn't clear about this:

What I meant was the fact that the winners are black and are being voted for, as you said, by a white majority, I think it's pretty clear this country isn't at a stage where the type of racism/bigotry the BNP stand for is going to be voted into power anytime soon.

I see what ya mean... strange point though

[paper halo]

Really don't see how any of that relates to the rise of the BNP. Economy, ok maybe thats playing a part but there are reasons behind who people are voting for that wouldn't change regardless of the economic climate. Whats that about choosing mediocrity? how does that come into this at all?

Didn't you know? Poor people want to be poor.

[Deadbolt01]

Didn't you know? Poor people want to be poor.
X-)

[paper halo]

X-)

I don't think that, it just seemed to be what that guy was implying. Seemed to have a boner for capitalism.

[Deadbolt01]

I don't think that, it just seemed to be what that guy was implying. Seemed to have a boner for capitalism.
yeah yeah, I know. I was acknowledging the point.

[NeededYouMost]

Really don't see how any of that relates to the rise of the BNP. Economy, ok maybe thats playing a part but there are reasons behind who people are voting for that wouldn't change regardless of the economic climate. Whats that about choosing mediocrity? how does that come into this at all?
Sorry I don't explain myself on AP.Net. I see no point in doing so. Same reason why I don't care what reasons people have for wanting BNP in power. Minds are made up

[Deadbolt01]

Sorry I don't explain myself on AP.Net. I see no point in doing so. Same reason why I don't care what reasons people have for wanting BNP in power. Minds are made up
...that doesn't make any sense either. If you're going to give a point at least back it up and explain it so other people can evaluate it, otherwise there's not much point being here.

[NeededYouMost]

...that doesn't make any sense either. If you're going to give a point at least back it up and explain it so other people can evaluate it, otherwise there's not much point being here.
Hey man, i hear what you're saying...I don't agree

[Kyle Huntington]

Lol.

Making a long post trying to make points in a thread clearly in the middle of a discussion and then claiming that you don't want to explain your long post. Why post it in the first place?

[paper halo]

yeah yeah, I know. I was acknowledging the point.

Ah cool, just wanted to make sure.

Seems like the guy's just an idiot troll anyway.

[Deadbolt01]

Yeah, no sense being made.

[paper halo]

Yeah, no sense being made.

Awesome avatar btw.

[Deadbolt01]

Awesome avatar btw.
Cheers :) Going to any of the shows on the tour coming up?

[paper halo]

Cheers :) Going to any of the shows on the tour coming up?

Sadly no, I'm too busy with work. He actually played at my workplace last year though, in support of a band, I forget who.

Looks like I'm waiting until next year's dates for now.

[Deadbolt01]

Sadly no, I'm too busy with work. He actually played at my workplace last year though, in support of a band, I forget who.

Looks like I'm waiting until next year's dates for now.
Yeah, I'm going for London Roundhouse in March.



So here's all the proof you need to show that QT wasn't a success for the panel.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8323638.stm

[Hiroki]

So what argument can you possibly have against immigrants?
Quite a lot since I was born on a Brisih army base and am technically British and have lived here for over 28 years and have seen the problem that immigration causes.

Only a small minority are abusing the systems in this country and immigrants have done a lot more good for this country than bad.
There is a lot more than you think.

Oh hai, thinly veiled racism. Did you lift these talking points from the BNP's website or something?
Nope these are problems that I have had to face and which I am facing now. It's nice to be young and think everyone is equal but as you get older you realise that you play second fiddle to others. It's people like those that are making me be racist.

Thanks, another point to be made about people abusing systems. You never see an immigrant family getting £30,000 a year on benefits with no real reason for having them apart from being downright lazy. That is more than my dad earns and he is doing 6pm to 6am, 6 nights a week.Really? You need to get out of your town/city and travel to other parts of the country where you see this constantly.

In the end though immigration is a big problem and is on the agenda of every politcial party and it needs to be tackled to save the country and our way of life.

[secretsociety92]

Quite a lot since I was born on a Brisih army base and am technically British and have lived here for over 28 years and have seen the problem that immigration causes.


There is a lot more than you think.


Nope these are problems that I have had to face and which I am facing now. It's nice to be young and think everyone is equal but as you get older you realise that you play second fiddle to others. It's people like those that are making me be racist.

Really? You need to get out of your town/city and travel to other parts of the country where you see this constantly.

In the end though immigration is a big problem and is on the agenda of every politcial party and it needs to be tackled to save the country and our way of life.
Save our country? There is nothing to save it from. Immigrants are not the ones wanting to kick people out of the country, immigrants are not the ones denying the holocaust and nor are they the ones who want to ruin our alliances with other european countries.

[Deadbolt01]

I can't stress it enough, immigration is the problem, NOT immigrants.

[secretsociety92]

I can't stress it enough, immigration is the problem, NOT immigrants.
BNP still wanna kick them out too.

[Deadbolt01]

BNP still wanna kick them out too.
Yeah, and that's why they're wrong.

[secretsociety92]

Yeah, and that's why they're wrong.
Yes they are.

[paper halo]

There is a lot more than you think.

At least back this shit up.

Nope these are problems that I have had to face and which I am facing now. It's nice to be young and think everyone is equal but as you get older you realise that you play second fiddle to others. It's people like those that are making me be racist.

You have no idea how old I am, don't make assumptions.

So hold on, you've been complaining about immigrants coming here and getting huge benefits etc. Even though you've failed to support this information in any way, don't you think your incoherent rage should be directed at the institutions making these decisions?

Really? You need to get out of your town/city and travel to other parts of the country where you see this constantly.

Sadly, you saying something happens everywhere doesn't really qualify it as indisputable fact.

In the end though immigration is a big problem and is on the agenda of every politcial party and it needs to be tackled to save the country and our way of life.

What about your way of life has changed/is changing? Seriously, talking like we're being invaded doesn't lend any credence to your assertions, it just reaks of BNP propaganda.

[Chrisj182]

It said in the Times yesterday in some little column that 3000 people joined the BNP site when that show was on. Who could actually find Griffin an inspiration to sign up to his site?