Anyone into lifting... and willing to try a program with me?

[imirish06]

??

[smokedsanity]

what do you mean by "try a program with you"?

[imirish06]

One of the staff members of a website I help run said he gained like 30lbs of muscle within a few months. Which is really really impressive. He posted before/after pictures but you never know how valid they are.

The thing is, he put out every single thing he did out in a thread. Exercise and nutrition wise and why he did this, that, etc..

He's a smart guy. I ask because it's a pretty "obscure" way of training.

Basically he did 3 full body workouts a week but every single were pretty much "negatives"

His saying is "If you can lift it, it's too light"

http://www.bodybuildingfreaks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=872

if you would like to glance at it.

By "try a program with me".... I mean I'm going to probably start doing it Monday. Or atleast incoporate some of his techniques into my routines. I was wondering if anyone wanted to try it out and track our progress together.

[smokedsanity]

I'm reading it now.

[ActorInThisPlay]

ah you have to be a member to read it? I might be willing to try it out. I am looking for a good program to follow.

[mat1419]

if i can see it i might try it, i need to get into some sort of routine

[imirish06]

ah you have to be a member to read it? I might be willing to try it out. I am looking for a good program to follow.

you should sign up man, it's free. I help moderate the forums and write articles.


it's a really really good site for nutrition, exercises, martial arts, sports training, injuries, etc...

it just started up about 2 months ago but a lof the of staff members are pretty smart guys that aren't going to bullshit you.

a few train d1 football players and minor leaguers

[mat1419]

it looked well thought out until he mentioned he used creatine...i don't want to get into that stuff

[imirish06]

it looked well thought out until he mentioned he used creatine...i don't want to get into that stuff


creatine is harmless?

anyways, you don't have to use anything if you don't want to. especially creatine. creatines a bit overrated anyways.


The only things I plan on using are the same things I always use. Multi vitamins and a few amino acids.

[ActorInThisPlay]

haha damn...seems like way too much for me.

[imirish06]

His concept is pretty interesting.

I mean supplements don't have to be used but I highly suggest you at least try and eat enough for you body.

I mean it's only 3 days a week and shouldn't last more than an hour but an entire program based on "negatives" is going to need a lot of food to help repair itself on rest days.

[mat1419]

most of the jacked guys i know have the same philosophy...super high intensity over multiple sets

[imirish06]

haha damn...seems like way too much for me.


I can kind explain the concept for you in simple terms.

Basically, you should never be able to lift a weight you're doing.

You should find out what your one rep max is in a certain exercise and then maybe add 10-20lbs more onto that.

You need a lifting partner while doing all this though.

Say I'm doing a bench press and my 1RM is 310. I throw 320 on knowing I can't lift it.

My partner takes the weight off the bar and I fight as hard as I can to lift it while it's lowering itself. Once it hits my chest my partner does the majority of lifting to raise it back up. I repeat this for 8 reps or until I can no longer hold it coming down for 5 seconds. I'll do two sets of this.
It's pretty much what you call a "negative" rep. People throw in negatives now and then to break a through a plautue but not many people ever really based an entire workout off them.

The next time I do bench press on wednesday i'll add SOME sort of weight onto it... whether it be 2 1/2 lbs or 5 lbs.. the key is to always failing with more weight.

Does this make any sense at all? lol

I'm not quite sure if I'm going to do the whole program yet. Most likely just with bench press and barbell curls

I'm not sure if I'm going to do the whole program yet. I might jsut start out using the technique on ba

[imirish06]

my profile if any of you guys want to add me.
http://www.musculartrainingdevelopment.com /forums/Connors

[PowderedMilkMan]

lifting heavy is good, but more than your max is quite dangerous.

[imirish06]

lifting heavy is good, but more than your max is quite dangerous.

Truth, but when doing negatives you're always suppose to walk the line with how much you overload. There is only so much you can overload before your joints start getting hurt.

Plus a good spotter is key for this. I'm still debating whether or not there is anyone in my gym that I trust enough to spot doing this

Either way. I think it's entirely too dangerous to try this out on squats

[Split2nd]

lifting heavy is good, but more than your max is quite dangerous.
The thing is you're not lifting it though.

This seems pretty interesting, but my workout partners bailed on me. None of my friends are dedicated enough to take on a program and/or strict diet like this.

[PowderedMilkMan]

Truth, but when doing negatives you're always suppose to walk the line with how much you overload. There is only so much you can overload before your joints start getting hurt.

Plus a good spotter is key for this. I'm still debating whether or not there is anyone in my gym that I trust enough to spot doing this

Either way. I think it's entirely too dangerous to try this out on squats

haha yeah, doing that on squats you would be asking to get hurt. still don't like this idea, but you better have a damn good spotter if you do try it.

[imirish06]

I think for anyone that wants to try this... and has never done a negative before.

Best start of with just using your one rep max. then maybe at two 2 1/2 lb plates on it the next set

[Split2nd]

I want to see an experienced lifter or lifters weigh in on their opinions of this. There have to be some flaws in his method and plan... he mentions normal plans today being "useless," and I just doubt that so many people all over the world are doing things and getting results, but their programs are useless. I just don't see this being such a revolutionary concept that no one has thought of it before and marketed it to a great degree. There must be some kind of fundamental concepts that regular bodybuilders would disagree with here.

[ActorInThisPlay]

yeah see I don't have a lifting partner really. I go with my g/f and she does her thing and I do mine so this workout wouldn't work for me.

As far as like protein supplements go and what to drink before workouts and after workouts, do you have any tips? As of right now I am not on any protein or creatine or anything really and I just drink water before, during, and after workouts.

[imirish06]

I want to see an experienced lifter or lifters weigh in on their opinions of this. There have to be some flaws in his method and plan... he mentions normal plans today being "useless," and I just doubt that so many people all over the world are doing things and getting results, but their programs are useless. I just don't see this being such a revolutionary concept that no one has thought of it before and marketed it to a great degree. There must be some kind of fundamental concepts that regular bodybuilders would disagree with here.

There are a few experienced lifters on the forum that have tried some of the techniques and liked them. There are also a few that said "this is bullshit" but they've never actually tried it.

I mean if it doesn't work, you can always stop doing it.

In the beginning of his article he sites a book that just came out by a professional body builder that talks about this technique.

It's not that the "normal" plans are useless and that you won't get results. It's just the rate of how much muscle he built that if legit, really blows fundamentals out of the water.

25-30lbs of muscle growth in 3 months without the use of steroids is absolutely amazing.

Granted, I believe if it's true... a big part of that is due to genetics but either way. If it's legit, anyone who does it for 3 months should put on a decent amount of muscle.

[imirish06]

yeah see I don't have a lifting partner really. I go with my g/f and she does her thing and I do mine so this workout wouldn't work for me.

As far as like protein supplements go and what to drink before workouts and after workouts, do you have any tips? As of right now I am not on any protein or creatine or anything really and I just drink water before, during, and after workouts.


95% of the supplements out there are pure crap and you don't need.

If you're eating a clean diet you generally don't need anything but a multi vitamin.

Still, some help your body out a lot.

I only use protein powder if I'm in a bind and am in danger of missing a meal. I eat 6 times a day so... I also use protein powder post work out because it's fast absorbing. One of the things I've been doing for ages is drinking protein powder mixed with 2-3scoops of powdered gatorade(it's straight dextrose) post workout.

You see, after lifting for 45 minutes your body releases a hormone due to stress called "Cortisol". Cortisol is catabolic...as in, it eats muscle. It's one of the reasons why it's absolutely pointless to lift for more than an hour. Anyways, being that dextrose is all sugar... the sugar causes an insulin spike in your body which leads to the insulin spike curbing the rise of cortisol. Insulin can also be anabolic at the right times so it can aid in building muscle. The protein powder/simple carb thing post workout does a wonderful job with muscle repair and saving muscle from being chomped up by cortisol.


Other than that your best bet is taking amino acids like L-Glutamine and Branch Chain Amino Acids. You can find out out about those two here http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catamino.htm

[ActorInThisPlay]

95% of the supplements out there are pure crap and you don't need.

If you're eating a clean diet you generally don't need anything but a multi vitamin.

Still, some help your body out a lot.

I only use protein powder if I'm in a bind and am in danger of missing a meal. I eat 6 times a day so... I also use protein powder post work out because it's fast absorbing. One of the things I've been doing for ages is drinking protein powder mixed with 2-3scoops of powdered gatorade(it's straight dextrose) post workout.

You see, after lifting for 45 minutes your body releases a hormone due to stress called "Cortisol". Cortisol is catabolic...as in, it eats muscle. It's one of the reasons why it's absolutely pointless to lift for more than an hour. Anyways, being that dextrose is all sugar... the sugar causes an insulin spike in your body which leads to the insulin spike curbing the rise of cortisol. Insulin can also be anabolic at the right times so it can aid in building muscle. The protein powder/simple carb thing post workout does a wonderful job with muscle repair and saving muscle from being chomped up by cortisol.


Other than that your best bet is taking amino acids like L-Glutamine and Branch Chain Amino Acids. You can find out out about those two here http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catamino.htm
any particular products or brands you would recommend?

[Brownpants06]

Truth, but when doing negatives you're always suppose to walk the line with how much you overload. There is only so much you can overload before your joints start getting hurt.

Plus a good spotter is key for this. I'm still debating whether or not there is anyone in my gym that I trust enough to spot doing this

Either way. I think it's entirely too dangerous to try this out on squats


over-maxing squats is a good way to destroy your legs.

[Split2nd]

yeah see I don't have a lifting partner really. I go with my g/f and she does her thing and I do mine so this workout wouldn't work for me.

As far as like protein supplements go and what to drink before workouts and after workouts, do you have any tips? As of right now I am not on any protein or creatine or anything really and I just drink water before, during, and after workouts.

Dude, do you eat a shitload? Because it's likely that your workouts have been going to waste unless you've been eating a lot after your workout or having some kind of supplement. You should eat something light with a lot of carbs and some protein like 20-30 minutes before your workout, or else you're not going to have any energy and you'll have a shitty workout. I usually have a shake half an hour before. Don't have a big meal before you workout, or else your body's using all the blood to digest, and not giving it to your muscles. But within 20 minutes or so after it's really important you have some kind of post-workout meal, the best being a shake that has a bunch of carbs and protein; what imirish suggested is really good, add in the dextrose with the protein... your body needs both to help rebuild the muscle right after you workout.

So many people workout but don't follow good nutrition... nutrition is far more important than the actual exercises you do.

[Split2nd]

What really makes me want to do this is the before/after picture.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/cdybs/b4after.jpg

The before is almost exactly how I am right now... I'm about 145-150 and look a little bit bigger than that but that's pretty close. If in two months I can gain that much muscle it'd be ridiculous

[Brownpants06]

impressive, but it doesnt look like hes flexing in the first picture at all. still insane results though.

[Split2nd]

impressive, but it doesnt look like hes flexing in the first picture at all. still insane results though.
True, but you can tell the difference. I've noticed people usually look better when they don't flex. Or atleast I do, with my chest.

[imirish06]

any particular products or brands you would recommend?

Generally with most things, you're just paying for the name. So with stuff like BCAA's and Glutamine your best bet is to just find the cheapest things you could find. I'd buy it in powder form though. Pills are a waste of money.

I use ON's BCAA Powder and Higher Power's Glutamine.
For protein, people like to say that protein is protein but certain brands are more pure than others. Others aren't too pure and high in cholestorol. Like GNC's brand.


ON's Gold Standard is pretty much the universal favorite of most body builders. ON is an awesome company with a great reputation. Their flavors are pretty good, the protein is pretty pure, plus each serving is packed with BCAA's, glutamine, and other aminos and vitamins.

STAY AWAY FROM MUSCLE TECH PRODUCTS!!! Pure shit and scam.

Always buy stuff online, neeeeeeeeeeeever from GNC. GNC is one of the biggest rip off stores I've ever seen.

I always get my stuff from www.bodybuilding.com The prices are great and the shipping is really fast.

As far as dextrose... you can buy pure dextrose from bodybuilding.com for like $3

I just use powdered gatorade. It's made up of dextrose and maltodextrin.... if you're putting sugar into your body those two are pretty much the only two you should be using.

[imirish06]

I'm trying this tomorrow. I'm pretty pumped about it. I've had good results using negatives in the past.

The only problem I'm going to have is I'm not sure if I'll be eating enough. I spent a good part of spring bulking and planned on cutting for the summer so I've lowered my caloric intake a bit. Might not matter too much since I'm only using it for bench and barbell curls for now. I'll give it 4 weeks.

[imirish06]

I'll try it with triceps too. If that works, piled with the fact that I loooooove doing weighted dips. They should respond quite nicely.

Eventually I'll do it with everything except squats...Even if it works.

Doing a negative squat is BEYOND dangerous

I know he says to do it on a smith machine but I hate machines.

[JezisHChrist]

Me and my buddy are going to start trying that out.

[ActorInThisPlay]

Generally with most things, you're just paying for the name. So with stuff like BCAA's and Glutamine your best bet is to just find the cheapest things you could find. I'd buy it in powder form though. Pills are a waste of money.

I use ON's BCAA Powder and Higher Power's Glutamine.
For protein, people like to say that protein is protein but certain brands are more pure than others. Others aren't too pure and high in cholestorol. Like GNC's brand.


ON's Gold Standard is pretty much the universal favorite of most body builders. ON is an awesome company with a great reputation. Their flavors are pretty good, the protein is pretty pure, plus each serving is packed with BCAA's, glutamine, and other aminos and vitamins.

STAY AWAY FROM MUSCLE TECH PRODUCTS!!! Pure shit and scam.

Always buy stuff online, neeeeeeeeeeeever from GNC. GNC is one of the biggest rip off stores I've ever seen.

I always get my stuff from www.bodybuilding.com The prices are great and the shipping is really fast.

As far as dextrose... you can buy pure dextrose from bodybuilding.com for like $3

I just use powdered gatorade. It's made up of dextrose and maltodextrin.... if you're putting sugar into your body those two are pretty much the only two you should be using.
cool thanx...so you take all of those things so when do you take them? does it give you instructions on when you are supposed to take them like before and/or after your workout? thanx for the help man.

oh also what is your stance on Creatine? Does it really help all that much or am I just better off with the things you recommended?

[leftstranded]

i might be....i'll read it when i'm sober

[ActorInThisPlay]

oh and I have one more question...do you take these only on days you workout or everyday no matter what?

[imirish06]

cool thanx...so you take all of those things so when do you take them? does it give you instructions on when you are supposed to take them like before and/or after your workout? thanx for the help man.

oh also what is your stance on Creatine? Does it really help all that much or am I just better off with the things you recommended?


With things like BCAA's and glutamine you're best bet is to take at least 20g a day. Maybe 15 for BCAA's

I really can't stress enough how helpful they both are. Amino acids are the best supplements you could take. They're already in whole food but you need to take them in high doses to get the all the benefits from them.

Anyways, you can just spread them out through out the day... here is a typical lifting day for me.

4:45 wake up...5g glutamine
5:30 breakfast + 5g's of bcaa's
8:00am breakfast #2
11:00am lunch
2:00pm lunch #2
5:00 pre-workout meal + 5g BCAA's
0:00 post-workout meal. (this is my recovery shake.... scoop of protein, 2-3scoops of gatorade powder, water, 10g glutamine) ....then like 15-20 minutes later I'll have 5g of bcaa's mixed with crystal light
Right before bed I'll have some chicken or something plus 5g of glutamine.

Basically the most important times to take them are morning, night, and post workout. If scheduling or money is a problem... your best bet is just post workout and right before bed.


As far as creatine.... creatines another one of those supplements thats pretty legit. You won't see HUGE gains from it but it's not totally useless either. It's a cell volumizer and helps keep muscles hydrated. Hydrated muscles can do more work. like I said the only things worth spending money on are amino acids, bcaa's, multi vitamin, creatine, and EFA's(essential fatty acids like flax oil, fish oil, natural peanut butter, etc..) you can also get a good amount of efa's by eating haddock or some other fatty fish 2-3 times a week. there are a million different creatine products out there and there is no difference in $80 creatine or $20 creatine.

However, there are two forms of creatine. There is Creatine Monohydrate(the most common form of it, pretty much the first creatine). And there is a newer form called Creatine Eythl Ester. CEE is probably your better bet. You can get 500grams for like $20 and each serving is like a 1/2 tsp...and considering you only really need 1 tsp of it a day(on days you lift)...it lasts AWHILE. CEE is also better absorbed by the body and it doesn't make you bloated like monohydrate.

[imirish06]

oh and I have one more question...do you take these only on days you workout or everyday no matter what?

pretty much....

on days I'm not working out I take it when wake up and before I goto bed.

however if I'm not lifting but doing cardio... i'll take them before and after cardio. they both aid in preventing muscle catabolism(muscle being eaten) from intense or long cardio sessions.

[imirish06]

like I said... if you're going to get the stuff

buy it in bulk from places like bulknutrition.com or bodybuilding.com

I think 1000grams of glutamine is like $70-80 at GNC!

I can get creatine ethyl ester, glutamine, and my bcaa's for like $50-60 from bulknutrition.com

[ActorInThisPlay]

well I bought the ON Whey Protein, a 5lb tub for now because I really don't have enough money for all them at the moment. It said that the protein had BCAA and Glutamine in it so I figured that was a start at least. I'll probably get the other 2 when I get some more money. Hey thanx again for all your help. It is very much appreciated.

[Split2nd]

well I bought the ON Whey Protein, a 5lb tub for now because I really don't have enough money for all them at the moment. It said that the protein had BCAA and Glutamine in it so I figured that was a start at least. I'll probably get the other 2 when I get some more money. Hey thanx again for all your help. It is very much appreciated.
He gave ya some damn good info, he knows what he's talking about ;)

How was your first day irish? I'm bumming workout partners from day to day trying to get someone to consistently go with me.. I've got someone to go tomorrow, I'm gonna try the first day with him.

What/when're you doing for legs then? I didn't want to try the squats with this either.

[Split2nd]

Tried it out today... I liked it a lot, it's pretty intense, it was just weird to only be doing 2 sets per body part.

[imirish06]

Tried it out today... I liked it a lot, it's pretty intense, it was just weird to only be doing 2 sets per body part.


yeah I tried it out today too. I like it a lot. The only problem I had is that I had 2 other people doing it with me.... so it took entirely too long.

i also subbed close grip bench for tricep pushdowns.

I also did squats on a smith machine. a bit safer that way

[Split2nd]

yeah I tried it out today too. I like it a lot. The only problem I had is that I had 2 other people doing it with me.... so it took entirely too long.

i also subbed close grip bench for tricep pushdowns.

I also did squats on a smith machine. a bit safer that way
My problem was the spotting, it's a bitch. It's almost like you're putting in as much energy into that as if you were doing the exercise normally. My partner today was strong, but I don't know if some of the other people I work out with can help me up with that much weight for that many reps. Any suggestions? Bench seemed like the hardest to spot with. Biceps, shoulders, back were easy because you use your legs, but on the pushdowns you had to push down to spot or lift up the weights which is a shit load to lift, and with bench you had to reach down and pull up the whole weight by yourself. I donno what to do about it.

[TgE ARTdamage]

could you explain to me what "negatives" are?

I mean, I dont lift nearly enough to really know what i'm talking about. I go to the gym once a week, and do a little bit of everything. but if lifting is a good way to go to beef up, maybe I should concentrate on it more?

[Split2nd]

You should try to read up on lifting in general some more if you're actually interested in doing it more often and dedicating yourself a little more to it. You can either buy a book to get some general knowledge, or check out some bodybuilding forums that can help you out with beginners FAQ and knowledge.

[Split2nd]

Anyone else been using this?

I took a couple weeks off cause of vacation and not being able to get a partner here and there, but all in all I'd say I've been using this for what would be about a month now.

My bench has gone from 105 to 145, curls from 50 to 80, tricep pushdowns from 110 to 150, upright row from 50 to 80... I'm lovin' it so far.

[ActorInThisPlay]

Anyone else been using this?

I took a couple weeks off cause of vacation and not being able to get a partner here and there, but all in all I'd say I've been using this for what would be about a month now.

My bench has gone from 105 to 145, curls from 50 to 80, tricep pushdowns from 110 to 150, upright row from 50 to 80... I'm lovin' it so far.
how are you only benching 145 but tricep pushdowns 150? Let's see I have been working out 4 times a week for a couple months (I'm not doing the negatives though) and have gained 12 lbs. My bench went from 155-195. My curls went from 60-80. My tricep pushdowns went from 70-90 (i think the machine has to be different somehow). My leg press went up to 335 for reps but I don't work out my legs as hard as my upper body. All in all I have definitely seen a good increase in strength and size seemings as my shirts don't really fit me anymore...haha

[imirish06]

I tried it sort of, I tweaked it a bit to fit my likings. My two gym partners are no where near dedicated so I was only doing negatives for core lifts and went 3 sets of 3 for almost everything. I also did no negatives for squats or deadlifts.... too dangerous IMHO

it worked though. I did it for 5 weeks

bench 310 to 315
close grip bench 220 230
weighted dips 90 to 120... I've been doing 100 for reps now
weighted pull ups 45 to 60.
not quite sure what my 1 rep max was before for barbbell curls but I can max out at 145 now

I went from about 175 in weight to 178

[Split2nd]

I tried it sort of, I tweaked it a bit to fit my likings. My two gym partners are no where near dedicated so I was only doing negatives for core lifts and went 3 sets of 3 for almost everything. I also did no negatives for squats or deadlifts.... too dangerous IMHO

it worked though. I did it for 5 weeks

bench 310 to 315
close grip bench 220 230
weighted dips 90 to 120... I've been doing 100 for reps now
weighted pull ups 45 to 60.
not quite sure what my 1 rep max was before for barbbell curls but I can max out at 145 now

I went from about 175 in weight to 178
He explained why close grip bench/skull crushers aren't good tri exercises a couple weeks ago, did an interesting write up explaining why he thinks dips and pushdowns are the best.

how are you only benching 145 but tricep pushdowns 150? Let's see I have been working out 4 times a week for a couple months (I'm not doing the negatives though) and have gained 12 lbs. My bench went from 155-195. My curls went from 60-80. My tricep pushdowns went from 70-90 (i think the machine has to be different somehow). My leg press went up to 335 for reps but I don't work out my legs as hard as my upper body. All in all I have definitely seen a good increase in strength and size seemings as my shirts don't really fit me anymore...haha

Yeah dude I think the plates or machines are different because there's no way you can only do 90 if you're curling 80 and benching 195. It just doesn't make sense unless you have EXTREMELY weak triceps which I doubt.

[imirish06]

He explained why close grip bench/skull crushers aren't good tri exercises a couple weeks ago, did an interesting write up explaining why he thinks dips and pushdowns are the best.



Yeah dude I think the plates or machines are different because there's no way you can only do 90 if you're curling 80 and benching 195. It just doesn't make sense unless you have EXTREMELY weak triceps which I doubt.


lol I know... but one thing about Carlos is, he isn't open minded.

I'm always up for new techniques and what not but I'll always do exercises that my body responds the best to. Regardless of what someone says.

Dips are the best for triceps, hands down... but you'll hardly ever, ever see a professional body builder wasting his time with pushdowns.

dips, close grip, cali presses, half presses, decline tricep extensions...are their playground.


also, if he is referring to curls as in barbell curls..

80 on curls and 90 on a pushdown isn't THAT far fetched.

[Split2nd]

lol I know... but one thing about Carlos is, he isn't open minded.

I'm always up for new techniques and what not but I'll always do exercises that my body responds the best to. Regardless of what someone says.

Dips are the best for triceps, hands down... but you'll hardly ever, ever see a professional body builder wasting his time with pushdowns.

dips, close grip, cali presses, half presses, decline tricep extensions...are their playground.


also, if he is referring to curls as in barbell curls..

80 on curls and 90 on a pushdown isn't THAT far fetched.
What's wrong with pushdowns ?

[imirish06]

What's wrong with pushdowns ?

I'm not saying they should be avoided, they ahve their place and if they're working for you then so be it...

but unless it's close to comp. time you bodybuilders doing anything more than compound exercises for strength/mass.

another moderator who is a physical therapist/personal trainer openly debated carlos with his thoughts on this subject and honestly... he didn't have much to reply with.

I'm not saying it's a bad exercises and that doing it won't help your triceps out...because it hits the tricep decently..

but isolation exercises really aren't needed when trying to gain mass/strength

[Split2nd]

I'm not saying they should be avoided, they ahve their place and if they're working for you then so be it...

but unless it's close to comp. time you bodybuilders doing anything more than compound exercises for strength/mass.

another moderator who is a physical therapist/personal trainer openly debated carlos with his thoughts on this subject and honestly... he didn't have much to reply with.

I'm not saying it's a bad exercises and that doing it won't help your triceps out...because it hits the tricep decently..

but isolation exercises really aren't needed when trying to gain mass/strength
Hm do you have the link to the argument by any chance? Sounds like an interesting read. So what's the big difference between dips and pushdowns? Damnit, I like pushdowns--they're so easy to spot for.

[ActorInThisPlay]

lol I know... but one thing about Carlos is, he isn't open minded.

I'm always up for new techniques and what not but I'll always do exercises that my body responds the best to. Regardless of what someone says.

Dips are the best for triceps, hands down... but you'll hardly ever, ever see a professional body builder wasting his time with pushdowns.

dips, close grip, cali presses, half presses, decline tricep extensions...are their playground.


also, if he is referring to curls as in barbell curls..

80 on curls and 90 on a pushdown isn't THAT far fetched.
well the pushdowns on the other part of the cables I can rep 120 easily. the part actually for tricep pushdowns must be weighted differently because I can only do 90 on that one.

[imirish06]

Hm do you have the link to the argument by any chance? Sounds like an interesting read. So what's the big difference between dips and pushdowns? Damnit, I like pushdowns--they're so easy to spot for.


Sadly the posts were deleted because it was a mod vs. mod conflict and the administrator didn't think that would be good for the board and that it was better off saved for the staff discussion thread.

A dip is a compound exercise, a pushdown is an isolation exercise.. Compounds work 2 or more joints and isolations only work one... plus a pushdown is an auxillary exercise which means you're better off supplementing it with a basic exercise(weight dips, close grip, etc..) rather than using it as your main one.

dips also work your shoulders, chest, lats, and biceps to an extent