Say Anything vs. mewithoutyou vs. bright eyes

[ate_teenfourevr]

i have BARELY listened to any of these bands, but want to get into them..

sell me on your favorite.. seems like there are a lot of say anything fans!

only feel like buying one new album right now..

thoughts

[Burn That Shit]

If you're buying one album, then I wouldn't go with anything from Say Anything. That said, [A→B] Life is what I'd get.

[Rodeo]

mewithoutYou probably has more passion in one song then the downer of a human that bright eyes has in his entire discography.

[kianacarly]

I love Bright Eyes and Conor Oberst, have never listened to mewithoutyou even though I've heard lots of good things, and I dislike Say Anything. I don't know, listen to a few songs from each and make a decision on which you personally prefer...?

[oddwithoutend]

Say Anything is much, much worse than the other two bands. I'd go mewithoutYou, personally.

[Nick Le]

The new Say Anything is a fun, catchy album, but I'd go with mwY. An amazing band.

[imahoodlum]

I think everybody knows I'm going to say, go for Bright Eyes. I'm Wide Awake, It's Morning is probably his most accessible release. Literally every single song is likable.

[introduction]

they're all such different types of music though. say anything is pop punk (for lack of a better way to describe it), mewithoutyou is an experimental band (who doesn't really have a singer, he speak/screams all the vocals), and bright eyes is folky. pretty much every album by all of these bands is vastly different from their previous works as well. it all just depends what you're into.

[IntoTheSun]

Bright Eyes ftw! Get I'm Wide Awake It's Morning

[danielineffigy]

Catch For Us The Foxes or Brother, Sister.

Both are brilliant, beautiful albums by mwY.

[tawtaw]

You'll have more "fun" with Say Anything but mewithoutYou is the better choice.

[lesto17]

I would probably go with Bright Eyes as well, but I think I would say "Lifted...".

[imahoodlum]

I would probably go with Bright Eyes as well, but I think I would say "Lifted...".
Lifted is my favorite album, can't disagree with recommending it. However, I think for someone who has never listened to Bright Eyes should listen to Wide Awake. It's just generally more liked by people.

[lesto17]

That said, all three of these bands are very different from each other, so it will mostly be a matter of personal preference. mwY are absolutely fantastic and Say Anything are a really great pop-punk/rock band ("...Is a Real Boy" is still a personal favorite).

[lesto17]

Lifted is my favorite album, can't disagree with recommending it. However, I think for someone who has never listened to Bright Eyes should listen to Wide Awake. It's just generally more liked by people.

I can completely agree with that, good point.

[mmmmmpoetry]

Fevers and Mirrors.

[awakeohsleeper]

I love mewithoutYou. Incredible band.

[Takk...Ros]

I like Bright Eyes and Say Anything, but mwY blows them both out of the water. I'd go with Brother, Sister but any album by them is a safe choice.

[TheHeretic]

Any album by mwY is golden, although Brother, Sister still gives me those extra chills. Say Anything's Is a Real Boy still reigns supreme as my favorite album by them, fantastic stuff.

[theguy77]

well, two of these bands are worthwhile.

okay fine i'll be honest, say anything's album is a real boy is a good album musically. but their other stuff is so shitty that it leads you to believe it was a mere fluke and the result of max working for 5 years on the songs instead of just shelling them out lackadaisically, and also the result of working with tim o'heir who's a great producer.

[youngmountain]

Catch Us For The Foxes - mwY

[yellowhouse]

Don't bother with Say Anything and Bright Eyes, listen to mewithoutYou.

Start with Catch For Us The Foxes.

[bastard_of_ness]

Say Anything is much, much worse than the other two bands. I'd go mewithoutYou, personally.

I have known mwY since their first ever show and count guys that have been in the band as friends... but... to say that Say Anything is much worse is gross misrepresentation. Max Bemis is a better songwriter than anyone in the bunch, as far as I'm concerned. Lyrically, I love both he and Aaron Weiss as lyricists. Bright Eyes is liekly the most overrated musician of our lifetime.

mwY is an eccentric post-hardcore act that has progressively gone further and further from the hardcore roots, as far as the original poster, their best full length is probably their first (A->B Life), but it depends on what you are into. Their newest is a folk album, for the most part. The others all represent stages in between being a Fugazi/Refused influenced post-hardcore act and a quirky folk act.

As far as SA, every album is a solid one. ...Is a Real Boy is probably the best buy for numerous reasons. It will only set you back like $8 and is a great introduction to their sound. It will likely inspire you to grab their most recent two albums in only a short period of time.

Like I said above, don't waste your time on Bright Eyes. The guy is a horrible vocalist and an okay songwriter. The only thing worthwhile abotu his stuff is the lyrics, which could be just as easily (or more easily, perhaps) appreciated when read as poetry.

[squared82]

mewithoutYou - Brother, Sister
Bright Eyes - I'm Wide Awake, It's Morning
Say Anything - ...Is a Real Boy

I'd go in that order.

[theguy77]

I have known mwY since their first ever show and count guys that have been in the band as friends... but... to say that Say Anything is much worse is gross misrepresentation. Max Bemis is a better songwriter than anyone in the bunch, as far as I'm concerned. Lyrically, I love both he and Aaron Weiss as lyricists. Bright Eyes is liekly the most overrated musician of our lifetime.

mwY is an eccentric post-hardcore act that has progressively gone further and further from the hardcore roots, as far as the original poster, their best full length is probably their first (A->B Life), but it depends on what you are into. Their newest is a folk album, for the most part. The others all represent stages in between being a Fugazi/Refused influenced post-hardcore act and a quirky folk act.

As far as SA, every album is a solid one. ...Is a Real Boy is probably the best buy for numerous reasons. It will only set you back like $8 and is a great introduction to their sound. It will likely inspire you to grab their most recent two albums in only a short period of time.

Like I said above, don't waste your time on Bright Eyes. The guy is a horrible vocalist and an okay songwriter. The only thing worthwhile abotu his stuff is the lyrics, which could be just as easily (or more easily, perhaps) appreciated when read as poetry.

hahaha.

-mewithoutYou is not post-hardcore
-none of say anything's other albums are solid, nor does IARB provide a real idea of what the rest of their music is like
-if you skip out on someone like bright eyes for their voice then you seriously need to reassess the way in which you are looking at it and see if your expectations of him are entirely different from the things he was actually aiming for with his music.

/i didnt agree with anything your post said and im on an up-all-night high so i decided to arbitrarily reject each of your points, dont take me seriously plz

[tisTriNkA]

go for all three via illegal downloading imo

[pennie]

Bright Eyes.The only mwy album I like is the newest one and I never really listened to Say Anything.

[bard]

I have known mwY since their first ever show and count guys that have been in the band as friends... but... to say that Say Anything is much worse is gross misrepresentation. Max Bemis is a better songwriter than anyone in the bunch, as far as I'm concerned. Lyrically, I love both he and Aaron Weiss as lyricists. Bright Eyes is liekly the most overrated musician of our lifetime.

mwY is an eccentric post-hardcore act that has progressively gone further and further from the hardcore roots, as far as the original poster, their best full length is probably their first (A->B Life), but it depends on what you are into. Their newest is a folk album, for the most part. The others all represent stages in between being a Fugazi/Refused influenced post-hardcore act and a quirky folk act.

As far as SA, every album is a solid one. ...Is a Real Boy is probably the best buy for numerous reasons. It will only set you back like $8 and is a great introduction to their sound. It will likely inspire you to grab their most recent two albums in only a short period of time.

Like I said above, don't waste your time on Bright Eyes. The guy is a horrible vocalist and an okay songwriter. The only thing worthwhile abotu his stuff is the lyrics, which could be just as easily (or more easily, perhaps) appreciated when read as poetry.
:jawdrop:

this is without a doubt the dumbest thing i've read on the board.

you're actually saying that max bemis, a pop/punk douche bag, is a better songwriter than aaron weiss?

oh man, i need to sit down after that.


either way, listen to mwY OP. they're the only worthwhile band out of the weird choices you gave.

[pennie]

:jawdrop:

this is without a doubt the dumbest thing i've read on the board.

you're actually saying that max bemis, a pop/punk douche bag, is a better songwriter than aaron weiss?

oh man, i need to sit down after that.


either way, listen to mwY OP. they're the only worthwhile band out of the weird choices you gave.

You obviously haven't read many posts on this forum.

Why are you standing up while posting?

[theguy77]

You obviously haven't read many posts on this forum.

Why are you standing up while posting?

:lol:

[bard]

You obviously haven't read many posts on this forum.

Why are you standing up while posting?
you got me... :-d

[bastard_of_ness]

:jawdrop:

this is without a doubt the dumbest thing i've read on the board.

you're actually saying that max bemis, a pop/punk douche bag, is a better songwriter than aaron weiss?

oh man, i need to sit down after that.


either way, listen to mwY OP. they're the only worthwhile band out of the weird choices you gave.

Aaron Weiss is a phenomenal lyricist... but he's not the primary songwriter. Just an FYI. He does write some of the music, but Mike writes more that he does, and the entire band tends to write together. Greg is also a great songwriter (see the Operation)

That said, I think Max constructs songs in such an interesting way combinign a good deal of tempo and key changes while maintaining continutity.

hahaha.

-mewithoutYou is not post-hardcore
-none of say anything's other albums are solid, nor does IARB provide a real idea of what the rest of their music is like
-if you skip out on someone like bright eyes for their voice then you seriously need to reassess the way in which you are looking at it and see if your expectations of him are entirely different from the things he was actually aiming for with his music.

/i didnt agree with anything your post said and im on an up-all-night high so i decided to arbitrarily reject each of your points, dont take me seriously plz

That's cool. I'm not enough of a hipster so I can't appreciate Bright Eyes other than maybe 2-3 songs ("City has Sex" is a wicked good track). Call me old-fashioned, but poor vocals can certainly ruin music for me :)

If you listen to the new SA album of In Defense, it's hard not to call them solid. Much of In Defense had less pop sensibilities than the previous.

But I promise you that mwY is post-hardcore... I followed this band from their first show when they were an unnamed hardcore side project of the Operation. By it's very definition, a band who takes hardcore influence and moves beyond it is "post-hardcore". Just an FYI. If you dig on mwY and want to hear their early stuff before A->B Life, just PM me and I'll hook you up with stuff from their 2nd EP. I sold my copy of their first self-released EP for liek $50 to a scene kid and lost the tracks when a hard drive crashed, so I can't help with that one, but 2 of the tracks were rerecorded for their second EP.

[bard]

i know aaron isn't the primary songwriter, but he is still in the mix just as much as the other guys.

either way, they're not a post-hardcore band anymore. [A->B] Life is a post-hardcore release, but everything after that has branched out into alternative/folk/indie/etc... just because you started in hardcore roots doesn't mean you're forever attached as post-hardcore.

also, everything before [A->B] Life is not good at all. i love mwY, but man, those are some horrible songs.

[bastard_of_ness]

i know aaron isn't the primary songwriter, but he is still in the mix just as much as the other guys.

either way, they're not a post-hardcore band anymore. [A->B] Life is a post-hardcore release, but everything after that has branched out into alternative/folk/indie/etc... just because you started in hardcore roots doesn't mean you're forever attached as post-hardcore.

also, everything before [A->B] Life is not good at all. i love mwY, but man, those are some horrible songs.

Their EP on Kickstart is their best release to this day... if only because "Flamethrower" is one of the best songs written in this decade.

[bard]

Their EP on Kickstart is their best release to this day... if only because "Flamethrower" is one of the best songs written in this decade.
nope. the lyrics are good, but the music doesn't touch any of the rest of their discography.

[xJesusFreakx]

My favorite of the three is definitely mewithoutYou. Brother, Sister and Catch for Us the Foxes are both excellent. I'm Wide Awake, It's Morning by Bright Eyes is also great. I can't stand Say Anything and find Max to be grossly overrated, so I'll let his fans speak for him.

[bastard_of_ness]

nope. the lyrics are good, but the music doesn't touch any of the rest of their discography.

It's a musical taste thing... I love their harder sound from their earlier days. It's also nostalgia. I am reminded of their early days, which was a ton of fun to be part of.

I booked them a bunch of times and the most they ever got paid was $75. At the time, Aaron told me it was the most they'd ever gotten paid for a show. Crazy, eh?

[bard]

It's a musical taste thing... I love their harder sound from their earlier days. It's also nostalgia. I am reminded of their early days, which was a ton of fun to be part of.

I booked them a bunch of times and the most they ever got paid was $75. At the time, Aaron told me it was the most they'd ever gotten paid for a show. Crazy, eh?
that is crazy. and i'm not arguing or anything, just discussing, just wanted to make that clear.

it must've been weird seeing them blow up over the years. how did you know them?

there's a guy on another forum i'm on and he said he worked with a few of the guys at a circuit city before they got big?

[Rodeo]

either way, they're not a post-hardcore band anymore.

Yup, that right there is the key to it all.

Their EP on Kickstart is their best release to this day... if only because "Flamethrower" is one of the best songs written in this decade.


That's is absolutely INSANE. I have that EP, and it's awful. Even the band wishes it didn't exist. I only own it because I am a collector.... all of your name-dropping aside, try to look at that release unbiasedly... it's terrible.

[bastard_of_ness]

I went to school with Kleinberg's girlfriend and ran in the same circles. They played my school and the Philly burbs all of the time (including their first show). Hung out with them a lot back then.

I was actually a bigger fan of their former band the Operation, that Greg fronted and Aaron played drums in, but I loved them tons.

I still chat with Greg over the Web occassionally, haven't talked to the rest of the guys in years. Ricky still frequents a message board I post on (decapolis.com).

[bard]

that's cool.

edit: i still haven't heard the operation by the way.

[bastard_of_ness]

Yup, that right there is the key to it all.




That's is absolutely INSANE. I have that EP, and it's awful. Even the band wishes it didn't exist. I only own it because I am a collector.... all of your name-dropping aside, try to look at that release unbiasedly... it's terrible.

I promise you that they don't wish it didn't exist. Their first self-released EP, maybe... that was awful.

"Flamethrower" is a fanstatic song and the orignal version of "Four Word Letter" is superior to the A->B Life version.

I'd argue that it's true that they didn't find their true sound right on this EP, yet. But I love the raw hard edge it has.

[Rodeo]

I went to school with Kleinberg's girlfriend and ran in the same circles. They played my school and the Philly burbs all of the time (including their first show). Hung out with them a lot back then.

I was actually a bigger fan of their former band the Operation, that Greg fronted and Aaron played drums in, but I loved them tons.

I still chat with Greg over the Web occassionally, haven't talked to the rest of the guys in years. Ricky still frequents a message board I post on (decapolis.com).


I love the Operation too. BEEAUTIFUL melodies. Wish they could have done more. Did you like I Hate You.?



EDIT: Last year Aaron told me how much he despised that record... it's the equivalent of Brand New's Your Favorite Weapon to them.

[bastard_of_ness]

Not sure I know I Hate You, refresh my memory. I actually have the Operatiosn two releases and one of their older releases as Sans Cullotes (slightly different band, music not quite as good).

[Rodeo]

Not sure I know I Hate You, refresh my memory. I actually have the Operatiosn two releases and one of their older releases as Sans Cullotes (slightly different band, music not quite as good).


I Hate You. was Mike's extreme-punk band. They had the I Hate You. Fuckzine, amongst other releases. Crazy stuff. www.myspace.com/ihateyoutheband (http://www.myspace.com/ihateyoutheband)



But, ironically... I know Nikki and Chris too. Haven't spoke to them in like 4 years though.

[kbi the crowing]

i have BARELY listened to any of these bands, but want to get into them..

sell me on your favorite.. seems like there are a lot of say anything fans!

only feel like buying one new album right now..

thoughts

mewithoutYou because you'll keep loving them for a long time. I would buy one of their first three albums to start out with.

[brentywat]

mewithoutYou will be really shocking and weird initially....but in the end the most rewarding out of all three. get brother, sister....i kind of feel like thats their best and most representative of them. that being said, if you dont like them, get i'm wide awake its morning by bright eyes. that album deserves all the praise it gets.

[wendjiqn]

Aaron Weiss' shit is more talented than Conor Oberst and Max Bemis could ever hope to be, so the answer is obvious.

[Burn_Burn_Burn]

Catch for Us the Foxes.

[bastard_of_ness]

I Hate You. was Mike's extreme-punk band. They had the I Hate You. Fuckzine, amongst other releases. Crazy stuff. www.myspace.com/ihateyoutheband (http://www.myspace.com/ihateyoutheband)



But, ironically... I know Nikki and Chris too. Haven't spoke to them in like 4 years though.

Doesn't ring any bells. Haven't talked to them in years either.

Will have to check out the MySpace when I get home, blocked here at work.

[bastard_of_ness]

The bottom line is Conor Oberst's music will stand the test of time but MWY's won't. Most likley Conor Oberst will stiill be making dope music 15-20 years from now but MWY will probably have broken up and be forgotten within five years

He should go the way of Dylan and start writing some songs for other people, too. That way I can hear his songwriting skills without his God-awful vocals (much like Dylan, in fact).

[bard]

The bottom line is Conor Oberst's music will stand the test of time but MWY's won't. Most likley Conor Oberst will stiill be making dope music 15-20 years from now but MWY will probably have broken up and be forgotten within five years
hey! i didn't know you could tell the future?

[DCFCutie]

Well Bright Eyes is great,
and for a first time listener I'd recommend I'm Wide Awake It's Morning even though Lifted is the best album.

[bastard_of_ness]

Actually that's already happened. On Conor Ober and His Mystic Valley Band he wrote the song Worldwide and let Macey Taylor sing it.

Maybe I'll have to check that out then. His songwriting has never been my issue, so I'd be willing to give that a whirl.

[nerdvglc]

for me say anything is more generally fulfilling, and you can listen to it at different tmes. bright eyes is a little too one-track for me (i love them, but for purposes of this convo). mwy is good, but i haven't listened enough to give a full appraisal; however, my early impression is that say anything is more well rounded. keep in mind i could be wrong.

[play.tragic]

Obviously I can't.

Conor Oberst is 29 and has been constantly shitting out music since age 13 . Somebody that fucking prolific tends to keep making music for decades.


i like your opinion.
it blows my mind to think about how much music he's put out in the past 16 years. commander venus, desaparecidos, bright eyes, the mystic valley band, monsters of folk, and whatever guest appearances he's done in between. it's just unbelieveable.

[bard]

Obviously I can't.

Conor Oberst is 29 and has been constantly shitting out music since age 13 . Somebody that fucking prolific tends to keep making music for decades.
i don't disagree with this point, i'm just saying... there's no way to tell if mwY is going to be "forgotten" in 5 years.

obviously their music has hit quite a number of people in their hearts, including me and a lot of users here, and we will never forget them.

will they break up eventually? sure

will their legacy live on forever? even if i'm the only one that continues pumping their music all the time, absolutely yes.

[bard]

I feel you. Haven't they hinted at possible breakup rumours for awhile now? Obviously they are important to people, I'm not disconting that, but I was just saying that in the grand scheme of music history Conor Oberst will be rememebered and MWY, along with Say Anything will be be forgotten.
well i disagree with that though. i don't think they'll be forgotten at all.

either way, we disagree, water under the bridge.

and yes, after every album they always say they're not sure if they'll stay together and tour/record/etc... or break up. kind of always been like that.

[xJesusFreakx]

well i disagree with that though. i don't think they'll be forgotten at all.

either way, we disagree, water under the bridge.

and yes, after every album they always say they're not sure if they'll stay together and tour/record/etc... or break up. kind of always been like that.

I love mewithoutYou, but I doubt they'll be a significant band that people go back and discover in a few decades. It's possible, but Bright Eyes has a much greater chance of standing the test of time. Only time will tell.

[Colorblind!]

If you don't listen to Catch For Us The Foxes...

[bard]

I love mewithoutYou, but I doubt they'll be a significant band that people go back and discover in a few decades. It's possible, but Bright Eyes has a much greater chance of standing the test of time. Only time will tell.
i wouldn't say they can't stand the test of time, it's just that they are as well known as bright eyes, so it's hard to compare them i guess.

[wendjiqn]

every scene kid and their brother loves Bright Eyes. they will be remembered in 20 years. i'm not denying that.

mewithoutYou will not. which saddens me.

[bard]

i don't understand why people think mewithoutYou won't be remembered.

i'm sure they won't be remembered like nirvana or RHCP or tool or radiohead or something, but they WILL be remembered in a sense...

[aoftbsten]

I feel like I'm the only one on this site who just can't stand mwY.

[bard]

I feel like I'm the only one on this site who just can't stand mwY.
out of curiousity, why not?

[rocco_iii]

i feel that bright eyes has always been a bit overrated. mewithoutYou's Catch for Us the Foxes and Brother Sister are two of my all time favorite albums. very deep and intricate, almost enigmatic with lyrics, but i feel that you cannot really compare say anything to them. i would say that they both have the same quality music but are attempting two different things with different sounds. say anything much more accessible, but mewithoutYou i would call more alternative

[KingJohn_654]

mewithoutYou probably has more passion in one song then the downer of a human that bright eyes has in his entire discography.

this x10

[shimmyshakes]

If you are only going to be one album, I'd buy Catch for Us the Foxes by Mewithoutyou.

[Sic Transit Zeb]

MewithoutYou A-->B Life by far. Love bright eyes but mwY kicks ass.

[Sic Transit Zeb]

Lifted is my favorite album, can't disagree with recommending it. However, I think for someone who has never listened to Bright Eyes should listen to Wide Awake. It's just generally more liked by people.

x 2

[doppelganger]

the most accessible albums would be is a real boy; brother, sister; and wide awake.
my favorite albums would be is a real boy; catch for us the foxes; and fevers and mirrors

[TheSkyline]

Say Anything is the funnest of your choices, but mewithoutyou is an amazing band. Kind of depends what kind of stuff you want to listen to.

[theguy77]

The bottom line is Conor Oberst's music will stand the test of time but MWY's won't. Most likley Conor Oberst will stiill be making dope music 15-20 years from now but MWY will probably have broken up and be forgotten within five years

Obviously I can't.

Conor Oberst is 29 and has been constantly shitting out music since age 13 . Somebody that fucking prolific tends to keep making music for decades.

i agree with these sentiments but the difference between him, and a "classic" artist from the 70s whos already lasted this long, is that back then there was no good way for indie labels to promote in a widespread manner, and those guys got started on the majors, so even their early material is ubiquitous and famous. meanwhile, only recently has conor been able to make splashes in the true mainstream -- in fact, i would argue thats the whole point of him making the kind of dumbed down music he makes for his solo project, and also the point of him joining up with other popular indie-folk musicians in monsters of folk, to get the kind of publicity that can give himself a legacy and a stable career. what sucks about this is the only people who are going to know him for his bright eyes material 20 years down the road are the ones who listened to him now, and the ones who love his later music enough to backtrack through his discography. that's not going to be the majority, so unfortunately unless he returns to his old writing habits, the wisdom, wit, angst, and tragedy of his best lyrical works may not be what hes famous for in the long run.

[billy_yo]

mewithhoutYou > say anything > bright eyes.

thats how it goes for me.

[theguy77]

That's cool. I'm not enough of a hipster so I can't appreciate Bright Eyes other than maybe 2-3 songs ("City has Sex" is a wicked good track). Call me old-fashioned, but poor vocals can certainly ruin music for me :)

haha thats fine, but i wouldnt at all call bright eyes a hipster band haha loads of people listen to him, hes basically the scene's favorite "folk" artist.

If you listen to the new SA album of In Defense, it's hard not to call them solid. Much of In Defense had less pop sensibilities than the previous.

only some of it did and just because it had less pop sensibilities does not in any way make it more enjoyable or better music. in any case i would argue that the songwriting of IDOTG as a whole was very pop sensible, the production just wasnt as polished so it may be a little harder to tell from someone who isnt accustomed to listening to music with that recording quality. i would also argue that songs like "an orgy of critics" and "slowly, through a vector" have less pop appeal than anything on IDOTG. but all this is beside the point; IARB is definitely by a longshot their most well developed, cohesive, and substantial record musically. there are also a lot fewer lyrics that make me cringe but even then max was nowhere near as good of a lyricist as people give him credit for -- just because he has a thesaurus doesnt mean he's poetic.

But I promise you that mwY is post-hardcore... I followed this band from their first show when they were an unnamed hardcore side project of the Operation. By it's very definition, a band who takes hardcore influence and moves beyond it is "post-hardcore". Just an FYI. If you dig on mwY and want to hear their early stuff before A->B Life, just PM me and I'll hook you up with stuff from their 2nd EP. I sold my copy of their first self-released EP for liek $50 to a scene kid and lost the tracks when a hard drive crashed, so I can't help with that one, but 2 of the tracks were rerecorded for their second EP.

theres a lot more to it than that. people called fugazi an emo band because two of the members were in emo bands previously, then people called sunny day real estate an emo band because they referenced fugazi as an influence, then people called saves the day an emo band because they referenced SDRE as an influence, and now you have people calling dashboard confessional an emo band. tell me, how the fuck can you go from DIY punk hardcore music to corporate acoustic pop and still relate both styles to the same genre name? i dont care if you call it post-post-post-post-emo or whatever, DC's music has NO connection with the term whatsoever. there actually has to be a logical progression of the music style. by definition, in order for a band to be post-hardcore, they have to be a punk band through and through because by definition post-hardcore is a directly derived subgenre of it. mwY is not punk and not post-hardcore.

but we can argue about genres until we're purple and it wont mean anything so if you want to drop this nitpicky discussion, thats fine with me.

[chassmariee]

You should just pick up all three. I'm an avid fan of Say Anything though so....