Probly 1 of many Norma Jean threads but fuck it

[spoonman159]

Id like to find out how many norma jean fans out there dislike anything after O' God, i.e. Redeemer and The Anti-Mother. I for one love every album Norma Jean has released, but Redeemer absolutely blew me away and is to this day one of my favorite metal albums. So what is everyones thoughts on the change in Norma Jean's music over the last 2 albums?

[bard]

they started sucking when Josh left.

only albums worth listening to are the first two. the last three are bad.

[spoonman159]

I full disagree. Yea the first 2 albums are great, but I think Cory brings a lot to the band. His vocals on Redeemer aren't far off from an original Norma Jean sound with the exception that its a bit more polished. And his idea to make the Anti-Mother a concept album was genius, not to mention the versatility in it.

[bard]

the music became watered down after josh left, and they're pretty much nothing like the original band anymore.

idk, they just stopped making good music in my opinion.

[xJesusFreakx]

Bless the Martyr and Kiss the Child is definitely their best. I hate to be "that guy," but it is. Redeemer was horrible, but I think it showed promise; The Anti-Mother tried to build on that and failed even more so. I'll still give their next album a listen, but they're a stone's throw from becoming irrelevant in my eyes. Maybe the label change will help.

[adyinghippo]

First album was the best.
They gradually got worse afterwards.

[love_american_style]

liked their first. not so much anything else.

[bard]

First album was the best.
They gradually got worse afterwards.

liked their first. not so much anything else.
are ya'll talking about "throwing myself" or "bless the martyr, kiss the child"?

i'm sure you mean their second album, BTMKTC, but i just want to be sure.

[love_american_style]

are ya'll talking about "throwing myself" or "bless the martyr, kiss the child"?

i'm sure you mean their second album, BTMKTC, but i just want to be sure.

i don't count Ludakris

[dsd is too high]

Bless The Martyr.. is definitely my favorite NJ album to this day. But honestly, I like each of their albums on a completely different level. All of the records have a different feel. Norma Jean has evolved and matured so hard in my opinion. They were my favorite band for the longest time and I still love them. I don't understand how you can say "they got worse" and shit like that. It's still them haha. Josh is an amazing vocalist and as much as I wish he never left NJ, The Chariot is pure sex. The only downside is that Daniel Davison left. Best fucking drummer ever. The drums on The Anti-Mother is the only thing holding me back and loving it as much as the others.

[kemichels]

I actually didn't like O God, but I loved Redeemer and Anti-Mother. Anti-Mother had some jams on it.

[Brand-new-123]

I actually like The Anti-Mother the best. :shrug:

[awakeohsleeper]

I don't like The Anti-Mother but can tolerate Redeemer. O'God is my favourite, closely followed by Bless the Martyr.

[bard]

i don't count Ludakris
luti-kriss

and why don't you count it? it's the exact same band as BTMKTC. just their name changed...?

[spoonman159]

The Anit-Mother is so much different than anything they have ever done which is why i find it so intriguing. I love Bless the Martyr and O God, those are what made me a fan of Norma Jean. But the Anti-Mother brings a lot of diversity to the table and still keeps part of the hardcore Norma Jean intact.

[bard]

is there anyone here that hasn't heard their first album "throwing myself"?

[lenard27]

I like all of their albums. It's tough to pick a favorite, but I'd go with Bless the Martyr or maybe Redeemer, depending on how I'm feeling.

On a side note, and this isn't directed completely against the OP because a ton of people do it, but people spelling probably wrong (i.e. prolly, probly, etc.) is my biggest grammatical pet peeve.

[NateFoundGlory]

I like em all. Enjoy me some Norma. Never really got the hate, and am kind of sick of the Botch comparisons.

[yellowhouse]

I like Redeemer.

[Nick Le]

Redeemer is my favorite.

[Nick Le]

is there anyone here that hasn't heard their first album "throwing myself"?

I think nobody really counts as their first it because it was put out under Luti-Kriss. I like BTM better than that though

[bluecrunchy]

I enjoy everything up to Redeemer. Their last album was pretty terrible.

[Sloth7]

I never understood it when people say that Norma Jean sucked after Bless the Martyr... 2/5 of the band is different than the one that recorded that album, of course it's going to be different. In some ways it's not fair to view it as the same band. BTMAKTC is my favorite NJ album, but I do really enjoy the evolution with each following album.

All the holier than thou cool kids will just say they're ripping off Botch and write them off, but what they're doing now is awesome, just in a different way. Bands have to evolve. If they didn't, Radiohead would still be making albums that sound like Pablo Honey. If you really crave that old thrashier Josh sound, then there's always The Chariot. The way I've always seen it, now we have two great bands instead of just one.

Plus, Chino Moreno was on their last album, he fronts a band that's matured perfectly. Anything he backs is cool with me.

[HometownHero]

I like everything they have done

[love_american_style]

luti-kriss

and why don't you count it? it's the exact same band as BTMKTC. just their name changed...?

from what i was always told was that they were nu-metal when they had that name. hence me not cponsidering the same band.

regaurdless... i don't care.

[Regards]

BTM was really the only thing I enjoy about this band. Fun show though. And yes, I've listened to Throwing Myself and the EP Luti-Kriss put out. Didn't really grab me.

[Ravenous]

Probably because they're not scene enough for the scene kids anymore. I think every record they've put out is pretty darn good.

[screamoutmyname]

Love Bless the Martyr
Like a few songs off O God the Aftermath
Redeemer has a few surprisingly good songs, so I guess I like that one
The Anti-Mother is incredibly watered down

I hardly ever listen to Norma Jean, despite the occasional Memphis Will be Laid to Waste for nostalgia.

[bard]

from what i was always told was that they were nu-metal when they had that name. hence me not cponsidering the same band.

regaurdless... i don't care.
it's not a nu-metal album at all. their EP was nu-metal, but that album wasn't.

i'd recommend checking it out. better than their last three albums, that's for sure.

[anthonydarko]

I've only cared for their first two releases, after those two, they've been trying to be the Christian metalcore version of Thrice.

[dsd is too high]

I never understood it when people say that Norma Jean sucked after Bless the Martyr... 2/5 of the band is different than the one that recorded that album, of course it's going to be different. In some ways it's not fair to view it as the same band. BTMAKTC is my favorite NJ album, but I do really enjoy the evolution with each following album.

All the holier than thou cool kids will just say they're ripping off Botch and write them off, but what they're doing now is awesome, just in a different way. Bands have to evolve. If they didn't, Radiohead would still be making albums that sound like Pablo Honey. If you really crave that old thrashier Josh sound, then there's always The Chariot. The way I've always seen it, now we have two great bands instead of just one.

Plus, Chino Moreno was on their last album, he fronts a band that's matured perfectly. Anything he backs is cool with me.
this

[THE_SICKEST]

I liked Redeemer the most because it had some their heaviest material and also some really good melodies and softer stuff. The Anti Mother though, I could never really get into. Norma Jean is an awesome band though and definitely one of the most estabilshed acts out there in the genre. I still have a lot of respect for them.

[Brand-new-123]

I've only cared for their first two releases, after those two, they've been trying to be the Christian metalcore version of Thrice.
Thrice is awesome so that must mean that Norma Jean is awesome too.

[danielineffigy]

Redeemer and The Anti-Mother are both awesome.

[anthonydarko]

Thrice is awesome so that means that Norma Jean is not.
Fixed

[xJesusFreakx]

I never understood it when people say that Norma Jean sucked after Bless the Martyr... 2/5 of the band is different than the one that recorded that album, of course it's going to be different. In some ways it's not fair to view it as the same band. BTMAKTC is my favorite NJ album, but I do really enjoy the evolution with each following album.

All the holier than thou cool kids will just say they're ripping off Botch and write them off, but what they're doing now is awesome, just in a different way. Bands have to evolve. If they didn't, Radiohead would still be making albums that sound like Pablo Honey. If you really crave that old thrashier Josh sound, then there's always The Chariot. The way I've always seen it, now we have two great bands instead of just one.

Plus, Chino Moreno was on their last album, he fronts a band that's matured perfectly. Anything he backs is cool with me.

I'll see your Radiohead and raise you Weezer.

What you seem to be missing is that "evolving" and "maturing" =/= "improving." Sometimes the changes are legitimately for the worse. I liked the more melodic rock-based parts of Redeemer, which gave me hope for their next release, but The Anti-Mother just didn't work. Maybe they'll bring it all together with their next album on the new label? I don't know. They've hit three consecutively worse strikes in a row, so my hopes aren't very high.

[Brand-new-123]

Fixed
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9206/icwutudidthar.jpg

[drzafs]

the music became watered down after josh left, and they're pretty much nothing like the original band anymore.

idk, they just stopped making good music in my opinion.

By 'original band' you mean Botch rip-off? After Josh left they started to develop their own style.

[bard]

By 'original band' you mean Botch rip-off? After Josh left they started to develop their own style.
i didn't mean original in that sense.

i just meant the original band members.

also, bands ripoff other bands all the time. doesn't matter unless they suck at it.

i'm not saying NJ is better than botch or whatev, just chill out.

[dsd is too high]

I'll see your Radiohead and raise you Weezer.

The Anti-Mother just didn't work. Maybe they'll bring it all together with their next album on the new label? I don't know. They've hit three consecutively worse strikes in a row, so my hopes aren't very high.
Wrong. The Anti-Mother is amazing. Truly a step outside the box. Chino Moreno? Page Hamilton? I'd have babies with 'em. O' God.. and Redeemer have each picked up their own fans and probably some of the most solid (lol) Solid State releases to date.

[xJesusFreakx]

Wrong. The Anti-Mother is amazing. Truly a step outside the box. Chino Moreno? Page Hamilton? I'd have babies with 'em. O' God.. and Redeemer have each picked up their own fans and probably some of the most solid (lol) Solid State releases to date.

"Step outside of the box" for a metalcore band? Big name contributers? Yeah, that totally guarantees quality... lol. You don't judge the artwork based on how good the artist is; you judge the artist based on how good the artwork is.

[spoonman159]

As long as Norma Jean doesnt eliminate their hardcore side completely im relatively confident I will always be a big fan. Too many bands nowadays (Avenged, Atreyu, The Fall of Troy *new album) are going for the more mainstream approach to appeal to a bigger audience. Changing up your style of music is never a bad thing, but it can become a problem when bands forget what established their fan base to begin with.

[Regards]

Wrong. The Anti-Mother is amazing. Truly a step outside the box. Chino Moreno? Page Hamilton? I'd have babies with 'em. O' God.. and Redeemer have each picked up their own fans and probably some of the most solid (lol) Solid State releases to date.
See avatar for best Solid State release.

And honestly, being the best release on Solid State really isn't saying much for you.

[dsd is too high]

"Step outside of the box" for a metalcore band? Big name contributers? Yeah, that totally guarantees quality... lol. You don't judge the artwork based on how good the artist is; you judge the artist based on how good the artwork is.
you lost me honestly

[Derka Derka]

Bless the Martyr and Kiss the Child is definitely their best. I hate to be "that guy," but it is. Redeemer was horrible, but I think it showed promise; The Anti-Mother tried to build on that and failed even more so. I'll still give their next album a listen, but they're a stone's throw from becoming irrelevant in my eyes. Maybe the label change will help.

This

[bard]

See avatar for best Solid State release.

And honestly, being the best release on Solid State really isn't saying much for you.
... but the best releases ARE really good.

zao - where blood and fire bring rest (and other zao albums)
training for utopia - thowing a wrench into the american music machine

[Regards]

... but the best releases ARE really good.

zao - where blood and fire bring rest (and other zao albums)
training for utopia - thowing a wrench into the american music machine
Ah I forgot earlier Solid State. Yeah I was just listening to Zao actually, but there are a ton of really bad albums too.

[dsd is too high]

zao - where blood and fire bring rest (and other zao albums)
training for utopia - thowing a wrench into the american music machine
good times

[drzafs]

i didn't mean original in that sense.

i just meant the original band members.

also, bands ripoff other bands all the time. doesn't matter unless they suck at it.

i'm not saying NJ is better than botch or whatev, just chill out.

Nah, I see what you're saying now.
Personally I love their first 2 releases, but if I'm in the mood for that, I usually just go for Botch.
Not trying to act elitist or anything, that's just the way I see it.
But, I still really like the latest 3 releases too. They're developing their own style of the genre now.

But, as for bands ripping off other bands... It's one thing to draw influence, it's another thing to totally rip off.
It matters. Whether they suck at it or not, you lose some degree of respect.

[bard]

Nah, I see what you're saying now.
Personally I love their first 2 releases, but if I'm in the mood for that, I usually just go for Botch.
Not trying to act elitist or anything, that's just the way I see it.
But, I still really like the latest 3 releases too. They're developing their own style of the genre now.

But, as for bands ripping off other bands... It's one thing to draw influence, it's another thing to totally rip off.
It matters. Whether they suck at it or not, you lose some degree of respect.
oh, no doubt about the respect.

i just meant that some people dismiss them altogether when they shouldn't. if the music is good, go for it. but my respect level is lowered when it's a blatant ripoff.

[x togepi x]

this band was never good.

[Sloth7]

I'll see your Radiohead and raise you Weezer.

What you seem to be missing is that "evolving" and "maturing" =/= "improving." Sometimes the changes are legitimately for the worse. I liked the more melodic rock-based parts of Redeemer, which gave me hope for their next release, but The Anti-Mother just didn't work. Maybe they'll bring it all together with their next album on the new label? I don't know. They've hit three consecutively worse strikes in a row, so my hopes aren't very high.


Haha, fair enough. Sometimes evolving and maturing do = improvement, sometimes they don't. I don't necessarily believe that those terms mean that they've gotten better, but they have definitely refined a more mature, melodic sound. I would be lying if I said The Anti-Mother was the best record in their catalog, or that I 100% love the direction they've picked with it, but unfortunately, they're a band that their critics seem to judge based on a debut record that includes only 2 members of the current band. I'd still rather see a band trying new things and incorporating a new sound than to be stuck repeating their old sound again and again. Except for Finch. They really screwed up on that one.

[astretch4glory]

i love the 1st and the 3rd and it drops off heavy 4th was ok and the 2nd was crap.
the forth one ive listened to maybe 4 times and it is way better than that crap called o god.
there is a reason why the follow up album was called redeemer.

[nickonthecoast]

bless the martyr- classic. one of the best.
o god- very good
redeemer- used to hate it, now i love it.
anti mother- just weird.

i still prefer the chariot.

[jake_rm]

I don't like The Anti-Mother but can tolerate Redeemer. O'God is my favourite, closely followed by Bless the Martyr.


This. But the The Chariot are my favourite overall.

[spoonman159]

Norma Jean > The Chariot
for me its not even close. although i haven't yet listened to Wars and Rumors of Wars.

[Derka Derka]

Norma Jean > The Chariot
for me its not even close. although i haven't yet listened to Wars and Rumors of Wars.

This

Is something I do not agree with, The Chariot is straight raw passion and power. Norma Jean is a decent band but I feel like a lot of their songs lack passion and power and they're just lackluster rock/metal songs.