Discussion Question

[Jason Tate]

Do you care if a band trying to infiltrate (cater toward and sell CDs to) the "indie-scene" signs straight to a major label and doesn't go the "indie-label" route first? And the second part to this question is what about the bands that hit the "upstream" deal and try and fake the "indie thing" first and always have one foot out the door? Leave your comments, I'm curious.

[plain white t's]

im a lil confused by ur questions, but does this have anything to do wit ciwwaf

[Mark 0)))]

Only if they look like this,
http://myspace-799.vo.llnwd.net/00452/99/79/452969799_l.jpg

[Jason Tate]

im a lil confused by ur questions, but does this have anything to do wit ciwwaf
Nope, another band similar though ...

[Rohan Kohli]

I don't give a shit as long as I like the songs

[yutsmcgee]

Boys Like Girls?

[Kram41]

No...as long as they don't talk the talk about being a struggling band, support indie music, blah, blah, blah.

The music should speak for itself. If they have a sound that catches on with the indie scene but is popular enough to get them to a major, so be it. As long as they don't try to fake something they aren't.

[SECRETaction]

there are many bands that come out of nowhere and are on major labels, i personally think that actually hurts the band as many of them havnt developed a fan base or got their name around. major labels are more money oriented and are less concerned about the "scene" and expect the band to sell a certain amount or it is adios. the whole indie first step almost always seems to be the smart one.
but then again im sure some people can make it work.

[Jason Tate]

there are many bands that come out of nowhere and are on major labels, i personally think that actually hurts the band as many of them havnt developed a fan base or got their name around. major labels are more money oriented and are less concerned about the "scene" and expect the band to sell a certain amount or it is adios. the whole indie first step almost always seems to be the smart one.
but then again im sure some people can make it work.
That's sort of how I feel, because in the end after the major gets their hit out of you, where do you go? You have no idea what to do, and all your fans forgot you.

[SECRETaction]

exactly...to start at a level where most bands dream of reaching seems almost wrong.

[Mark 0)))]

That's sort of how I feel, because in the end after the major gets their hit out of you, where do you go? You have no idea what to do, and all your fans forgot you.

That's how I feel when I see a band like Yellowcard. Once they got on a major, they were big for a couple singles, then went downhill. At least they had a great career before then too.

[Rohan Kohli]

That's sort of how I feel, because in the end after the major gets their hit out of you, where do you go? You have no idea what to do, and all your fans forgot you.

Yellowcard went the indie route... seems all their fans forgot about them after the label got their hit :p

[SellOuts]

It kind of worked for The Used. They got a major record deal right away and built up a pretty strong fan base.

[Tmovielife16]

i would try to do what cartel did or something along those lines, have an EP and a release on an indie, then re-release on a major just as they're on the edge of getting really big, but i hope they can pull it off

[Jason Tate]

Yellowcard went the indie route... seems all their fans forgot about them after the label got their hit :p
They sold 300K and went Gold without another "hit" - and they will always know how to tour, and always know how to be a band withOUT the major. That's the difference between them and your boys.

[Jason Tate]

It kind of worked for The Used. They got a major record deal right away and built up a pretty strong fan base.
They caught that wave at the right time .. so I do see what you mean by that. Now what are they doing though? Anything?

[Mark 0)))]

They caught that wave at the right time .. so I do see what you mean by that. Now what are they doing though? Anything?

Now all the kids have moved on to Fall out Boy...

[Jason Tate]

Now all the kids have moved on to Fall out Boy...
Hahaha.. true. And the next wave will be Over It ... I'm telling you they're on the cusp of the next "wave" of rock/pop. ;) Fuck this dancy shit.

[irthesteve]

Nope, another band similar though ...
october fall

[SellOuts]

They caught that wave at the right time .. so I do see what you mean by that. Now what are they doing though? Anything?

True but the same thing can happen with a band on an Indie such as Brand New. They released a CD on an Indie and were huge and now where are they???


lol jk

[Gabe Gross]

there are many bands that come out of nowhere and are on major labels, i personally think that actually hurts the band as many of them havnt developed a fan base or got their name around. major labels are more money oriented and are less concerned about the "scene" and expect the band to sell a certain amount or it is adios. the whole indie first step almost always seems to be the smart one.
but then again im sure some people can make it work.

does that mean major labels can only steal indie bands from indie labels and not pick them up right away? i get what you're saying but i have to play deveil's advocate. I dont always want majors stealing my fave band from an indie label. discuss.

[weworemasks]

i dont really care, because most of those bands are ear-numbing and horrible.

[Kram41]

They sold 300K and went Gold without another "hit" - and they will always know how to tour, and always know how to be a band withOUT the major. That's the difference between them and your boys.

So we're talking about Cartel here?

[Tmovielife16]

october fall

They're on an indie but act as if they're on a major,

man they're bad

[Gabe Gross]

Hahaha.. true. And the next wave will be Over It ... I'm telling you they're on the cusp of the next "wave" of rock/pop. ;) Fuck this dancy shit.

anything that sounds close the killers, i write off immediately

the faint is the only band that did it right.

[SellOuts]

Wait, Jimmy Eat World. They signed to a major, built a real indie fan base. Got dropped but kept the fan base and recorded their plantium selling album on their own and eventually signed to another Major label. I am sure if they go indie they still would have a very loyal fan base.

[wristsNeyes]

Not liking a band just because they didn't go a certain route seems a little superficial, doesn't it? Shouldn't it be about the music?

[Mark 0)))]

I think this whole, "indie" think. Is the rap rock of my generation. The cool thing for the kiddies to listen to. It'll be over soon enough.

[Jason Tate]

So we're talking about Cartel here?
No. No band really in particular.

[Kram41]

anything that sounds close the killers, i write off immediately

I was that way for a while, then I realized the error of my ways.

[FTFRock]

I think that the indie label is the way to go. I think maybe starting REALLY small with a label like Fidelity, or Fiddler or Deep Elm is a good stepping stone to a bigger indie label. I'm not sure it would be wise for anyone to sign onto a ship that is already half sunk (major label). I don't know how it is for most bands, but for me and my band.... we just want to live in a van and play music everywhere. Meet new faces and share good stories/times with new friends. so Indie all the way.

-Fighting to Forget

[SwedishHeat]

That's kind of how I felt about The All-American Rejects. At first, I thought it was just two dudes making some pop music (similar to how The Format actually is), so that kind of appealed to me, the "little guy making big music" scenario. Then, all of a sudden, they're on a major label and it turns out the major was just testing the waters to see how they'd do, and added two more guys to the band, and now it's a totally different music-making entity. It's just your average run-of-the-mill pop band now.

[Kram41]

Nope, another band similar though ...
No. No band really in particular.

:huh:

[catscradle]

there are many bands that come out of nowhere and are on major labels, i personally think that actually hurts the band as many of them havnt developed a fan base or got their name around. major labels are more money oriented and are less concerned about the "scene" and expect the band to sell a certain amount or it is adios. the whole indie first step almost always seems to be the smart one.
but then again im sure some people can make it work.
i think you addressed it perfectly.

[earlynovemberX]

It kind of worked for The Used. They got a major record deal right away and built up a pretty strong fan base.

the used was also a corporate creation.....assembled by label execs. look it up if you dont believe me.

[Jason Tate]

:huh:
The post sprung up after a convo with rohan about a band, but is a generalized question. and no it wasn't cartel.

[Alt_fate83]

my answer to these questions is NO NO NO.. i really dont give a shit about indie labels, major labers , underground scenes, touring , or whatever!! .. If its good music - its good music!!! thats what i base my preferences on.. and im tired of people who dont like bands simply because they are "mainstream" or what they think are "sell outs" ... people need to appreciate music for what it is and not the image that it is percieved to be !! OPEN YOUR EARS AND LISTEN AND DON'T JUST JUDGE WHAT YOU SEE!!!

[Tmovielife16]

That's kind of how I felt about The All-American Rejects. At first, I thought it was just two dudes making some pop music (similar to how The Format actually is), so that kind of appealed to me, the "little guy making big music" scenario. Then, all of a sudden, they're on a major label and it turns out the major was just testing the waters to see how they'd do, and added two more guys to the band, and now it's a totally different music-making entity. It's just your average run-of-the-mill pop band now.

along those lines...

what about dashboard who just has the vagrant symbol on the back of the cd to maintain the indie cred but is totally run by a major? (at least, thats what i was told before the last release)

[lassise]

I think that the indie label is the way to go. I think maybe starting REALLY small with a label like Fidelity, or Fiddler or Deep Elm is a good stepping stone to a bigger indie label. I'm not sure it would be wise for anyone to sign onto a ship that is already half sunk (major label). I don't know how it is for most bands, but for me and my band.... we just want to live in a van and play music everywhere. Meet new faces and share good stories/times with new friends. so Indie all the way.

-Fighting to Forget

couldnt you do that on a major label? just see more faces, stories, times, money.

if your on a big label you do what they tell you, if your on a smaller label, they still tell you what to do. if you can manage to be totally independant, and have a huge fan base and be well-known i think that'd be the best way to go so you don't have to deal with all the technicalities. hopefully you know people that will be willing to do your financials and distros and won't screw you over.

[Jason Tate]

along those lines...

what about dashboard who just has the vagrant symbol on the back of the cd to maintain the indie cred but is totally run by a major? (at least, thats what i was told before the last release)
I think his contract with vagrant is still in effect or something ... cause they still handle all his press and stuff with us (they bought all the ads on ap for that release).

[thisisadisaster]

i think it all depends on the bands attitude and honesty. i think if im not mistaken, was the whole reason sunday's ciwwaf situation happened. a bands attitude can change so many things. it can lose fans and gain millions. of course we all love to watch a band start on an indie and we watch it grow like a child into the biggest band in the world, but it doesnt always have to work that way. if a band is given the option to skip the indie process and sign with a major, i dont necessarily think they should. they should look at their options and decide whats going to be the healthiest situation for the group. but if they dont have a better option, why not skip the indie route?

[Mark 0)))]

That's kind of how I felt about The All-American Rejects. At first, I thought it was just two dudes making some pop music (similar to how The Format actually is), so that kind of appealed to me, the "little guy making big music" scenario. Then, all of a sudden, they're on a major label and it turns out the major was just testing the waters to see how they'd do, and added two more guys to the band, and now it's a totally different music-making entity. It's just your average run-of-the-mill pop band now.

That's totally what I think paramore is.

[Tmovielife16]

remember those rumors when paramore came out that it was just a test run by a major label to see if she couild make it and then go to a major. Is there any truth to that?

if there is than that is probably happening a lot and is messed up

[yutsmcgee]

That's totally what I think paramore is.

that's public knowledge. it's always been atlantic.

[Tmovielife16]

I think his contract with vagrant is still in effect or something ... cause they still handle all his press and stuff with us (they bought all the ads on ap for that release).

oh, alright then

[RememberFminus]

I don't give a shit as long as I like the songs

not caring about issues like this lends to the creation of watered down music. lessoning of variety of music, killing of indie labels, etc. you are a fucking idiot.

[thewebguy]

i don't think in and of itself it is a bad thing for a band to start or upstream major right away, but in practice it seems that there is the corruption we always hear about majors going on with it.

i mean there are so many rumors about the major telling the band to kick someone out of the band, change your sound, get a full band, etc before they sign them. who knows what is true, and maybe it's true and doesn't matter, but i don't like to feel like a band is faking it so i'll like them.

[irthesteve]

not caring about issues like this lends to the creation of watered down music. lessoning of variety of music, killing of indie labels, etc. you are a fucking idiot.
you're the idiot. it's about the music bottom line.

[Jamie Pham]

the faint is the only band that did it right.

word.

[Tmovielife16]

not caring about issues like this lends to the creation of watered down music. lessoning of variety of music, killing of indie labels, etc. you are a fucking idiot.

if everyone had rohans view thn there probably wouldn't be as much shit in music and the major labels would lessen after a while

[Mark 0)))]

I don't think this upstreaming thing will last for that long. I mean these bands aren't exactly pulling in the numbers for major labels, albeit the few who do blow up.

[lassise]

geffen does the whole take drive thru bands and then put dtr logos on the albums but release it under geffen, if im not mistaken Based on a True Story has the DTR logo

[Pooavenger]

I think anyway a band comes up doesn't matter. When it comes down to it the good shit will last (sometimes) and the shitty bands will just flop. Why else do you think we never hear about fuckin' STUN, the F-ups, etc? Most bands people listen to will only last a few albums and their 15 minutes are almost up. I can care less how a band starts just as long as they are authentic and actually care about music. A great example would be Radiohead they got their start on a major and look at them now they are still making the greatest albums. Everyone is so hung up on how this band came up and talks shit because they have an oppourtunity to get huge fast. I say fuck it becuase anyone would take the oppourtunity if it presented itself. Yeah shitty bands seem to get them more but look were it leads them. nowhere.

[lightcollapse]

hello, what about weezer?

[lightcollapse]

and upstreaming is the way to go.

[Rohan Kohli]

not caring about issues like this lends to the creation of watered down music. lessoning of variety of music, killing of indie labels, etc. you are a fucking idiot.

How does liking what I like "lesson" the variety of music out there? Totally non sequitur.

[earlynovemberX]

not caring about issues like this lends to the creation of watered down music. lessoning of variety of music, killing of indie labels, etc. you are a fucking idiot.

caring about issues only creates useless gossip and drama....and then that leads to the creation of websites....

[RememberFminus]

you're the idiot. it's about the music bottom line.


Yea its all about the music, but the capitalist system has made infiltrated the pure artform and added business to the mix. this brings up problems and issues in the creation of music. I talked about this before so ill say it again:i think its dumb to think "who cares where it came from" There are actually reasons why people hate Majors, it isnt only because its more punk rock to. Major Labels take a whole different approach to selling records than most (good) indies. Major labels put high margin profits in the front of all protities thus changing many aspects of the music. Regardless of what you think, the music is very much effected by what label its on. On a major there are different types of demands and pressures put on bands, not only that but many bands dont discuss the amount of control they lose with their band when signing to a major. This control isnt only about marketing and shirts etc, its with the music created too. Majors often force bands to drop off certain songs from a CD in favor of radio friendly ones and this kind of thinking changes the whole dynamic of song creation. For instance, Major labels often have rules such as - a song without a "proper hook" in the first 30 seconds of a song can not be released as a single or can not be in the first 5 songs of the record. These kinds of rules on song creation effect bands, whether they admit it or not. Basically when indies get over taken we as listeners are effectively seeing variety in music dissappear, which is pretty disheartening.

When bands do upstream deals to test the market etc. they are in a way cheapening the artform of music into business tactics etc and this effects music writing. bands start cornering themselves in, whether they know it or not, into crafting certain songs that fit their labels agenda. This causes the creation of genre booms and really hurts free creation of music.

[daBNmaradona]

That's the difference between them and your boys.

so Rohan is a CIWWAF groupie.....ic

[lassise]

I don't think this upstreaming thing will last for that long. I mean these bands aren't exactly pulling in the numbers for major labels, albeit the few who do blow up.

major labels sign a ton of bands that you don't hear about hoping they will be the next big thing. but they only focus on the ones who show potential to make them a lot of money. IE Yellowcard and Fall Out Boy, both bringing in the $$$

this is a list of "pop rock" bands from capitol records web site. notice how some of them are HUGE (billy idol, duran duran) and MOST you probably haven't heard before:

Auf Der Maur, Billy Idol, OK GO, the smithereens, joe cocker, jimmy eat world, liz phair, spandau ballet, lloyd cole, the kingston trio, lisa marie presley

<a href="http://www.capitolrecords.com/artists/bygenre.aspx?genre=PopRock">full list is here </a>

its just how major labels work.

[nivek87]

personally i love seeing bands grow up, i love listening to bands before full lengths and being a part of making that band.

but if a major pops up out of nowhere and catches my ear, ill still listen.

the only difference is that i feel i dont have as much of a relationship and stuff with the band

[Jason Tate]

i don't think in and of itself it is a bad thing for a band to start or upstream major right away, but in practice it seems that there is the corruption we always hear about majors going on with it.

i mean there are so many rumors about the major telling the band to kick someone out of the band, change your sound, get a full band, etc before they sign them. who knows what is true, and maybe it's true and doesn't matter, but i don't like to feel like a band is faking it so i'll like them.

great line.

[Jason Tate]

so Rohan is a CIWWAF groupie.....ic
Not at all .. ahahaha..

[nivek87]

whats the term upstreaming exactly mean?

is it along the lines of taking a band and reshaping them to a music trend?

[Mscales67]

quietdrive got signed straight to a major (epic) but i still love them... nice guys too..... panic! is the only upstream situation i never liked

[GDSP]

This whole site is an upstream. Its actually owned by Yahoo.

[Jason Tate]

This whole site is an upstream. Its actually owned by Yahoo.
I wish. Hahaha.

[Jason Tate]

whats the term upstreaming exactly mean?

is it along the lines of taking a band and reshaping them to a music trend?
Haha..a google search for it returns AP.net?!
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-13%2CGGLJ%3Aen&q=%22upstream+deal%22

LOL.

It basically means you release a CD on an indie and then if it sells a certain amount you get pulled to the major. Downstream is when you sign to a major first, then release the CD on the indie for "cred" and then go to the major for the next release.

/ correct me if i'm wrong.

[Tmovielife16]

This whole site is an upstream. Its actually owned by Yahoo.


haha

[nivek87]

It basically means you release a CD on an indie and then if it sells a certain amount you get pulled to the major. Downstream is when you sign to a major first, then release the CD on the indie for "cred" and then go to the major for the next release.

/ correct me if i'm wrong.


ahh ic

what are some of the bands that would fall under down and upstream?


yes, this is a quiz

[lightcollapse]

what about weezer, they ha(d) tons of cred didn't they?

[Mscales67]

Haha..a google search for it returns AP.net?!
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-13%2CGGLJ%3Aen&q=%22upstream+deal%22

LOL.

It basically means you release a CD on an indie and then if it sells a certain amount you get pulled to the major. Downstream is when you sign to a major first, then release the CD on the indie for "cred" and then go to the major for the next release.

/ correct me if i'm wrong.

o i had thought it meant that a band signed to an indie but had talked to a major and had like an understanding they would be signed once they had released the cd under the indie and it sold well

[FTFRock]

This is an awesome thread.

[nivek87]

o i had thought it meant that a band signed to an indie but had talked to a major and had like an understanding they would be signed once they had released the cd under the indie and it sold well

thats what it was sounding like to me, but besides tonight, ive only heard the upstream/downstream term maybe twice before.

[earlynovemberX]

ahh ic

what are some of the bands that would fall under down and upstream?


yes, this is a quiz


days away for downstream.

1 point for me.

[patrickhowell]

That's the difference between them and your boys.

The Summer Obsession, right ?

[indie_ira]

major labels sign a ton of bands that you don't hear about hoping they will be the next big thing. but they only focus on the ones who show potential to make them a lot of money. IE Yellowcard and Fall Out Boy, both bringing in the $$$

this is a list of "pop rock" bands from capitol records web site. notice how some of them are HUGE (billy idol, duran duran) and MOST you probably haven't heard before:

Auf Der Maur, Billy Idol, OK GO, the smithereens, joe cocker, jimmy eat world, liz phair, spandau ballet, lloyd cole, the kingston trio, lisa marie presley

<a href="http://www.capitolrecords.com/artists/bygenre.aspx?genre=PopRock">full list is here </a>

its just how major labels work.

i totally agree with you.

this is the same thing victory does......signs a TON of bands and puts their focus on the ones that bring in the cash.....

its fucked up, but like you said, its just how it works.

[yutsmcgee]

days away for downstream.

1 point for me.

and the futureheads

[JackBauer]

along those lines...

what about dashboard who just has the vagrant symbol on the back of the cd to maintain the indie cred but is totally run by a major? (at least, thats what i was told before the last release)


Dashboard is practically on Interscope. No way to deny. I know for a fact.

[FourStarters]

As much as it might suck to hear, it's sites like this one that have contributed to the problem - people know more now about their favorite band than they ever needed to, and it's given people the thought that they're on the "inside" and are qualified to make judgements on bands full of kids just like themselves.

There are shady things in music everywhere - the label and the "cred" make no difference. If you can write a good song, that's all that should matter in music. If everyone's going to bitch about how a band sold out or a band are sucking off a major label to become famous, we're all going to miss out on a lot of great music.

Besides, let's not pretend for one second that any one of us wouldn't sell the fuck out if a big check came our way. Kids in bands are the same as kids on this board - broke ass dudes trying to make a living. Karma doesn't discriminate.

[Say Hello 87]

It kind of worked for The Used. They got a major record deal right away and built up a pretty strong fan base.

This is very true, but take a look at them now....now theyre entire fan base is exactly like Fall Out Boy's fanbase, although they play very different genres of music (screamo, emo/pop-punk emo) everyone in the world has probably heard of The Used no matter what but they either hate or love them. I think personally that like 90% of kids over the age of 14 probly dont like The Used because theyre videos were played about a million too many times on tv this past year when In Love And Death was released. A lot of their fan (including me actually) really wish they made another record kind of like their first one because I personally thought the entire cd could be a single with every song, I thought it was honestly that good. But when they released their new record I only was into probly have the album, it almost seemed like half the album was made for mainstream rock tv so you could play half the songs in videos and stuff as to where the other half of the record was geared toward the dark side of The Used. The side of them you would never see on t.v....

But to also state my opinion on the first question......I honestly have way more respect for bands that start out on super small labels and then tour their asses off for a few years to really gain the respect of fans the true way because that shows me as a fan that they are willing to be a true musician and do what it takes in the beginning of everything so that I can believe that they arent just a lame cliche band that will be gone after their first record. I think that 99% of the bands that go straight to a major label right off the bat end up in way, way over their heads and dont know how to handle it most of the time so then they get screwed up and break up or you never see them again. Plus, wouldnt it be more rewarding to the musician personally to start with nothing like that and tour relentlessly and really promote yourself on the smaller areas and meet all of the fans personally and gain their respect and just show them that you love what you are doing??? Im not saying major label bands dont do this, but most bands that just get signed straight to a major label never play the small venues, most of them just go straight to the arenas. And to me personally to be able to watch a band go from playing the smallest place in my town to a place that holds thousands of people in a matter of years makes me have so much more appreciation and respect for them and it makes me love their music that much more as well. The funny thing is some major label bands that signed straight to a major label act like they have been through the worst of the worst in music on how they got to where they are, when a lot of the time they probly went on a tour and just got signed and had their video play everywhere for a few months straight and all of a sudden theyre the most popular group in that moment.

And I think you can see what a band that goes from a small label to a major label over a few albums you can see what they go through personally and how they have changed musically speaking to be able to stay afloat in the industry...

[alkalinexandy]

Honestly, I think the idea of upstreaming, jumping straight to a major, etc. is neither here nor there as far as whether or not I'll purchase an album. If I dig a record, I'm going to pick it up.

However, it speaks volumes about what this whole "scene" has become. It's no longer organic. It's a machine. In just a few short years, the whole operation has changed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I seem to be witnessing through my jaded eyes lately...

Most new bands feel as though they are owed a record contract, they expect to make it huge. Upstream deals are a double-edged sword. They have the potential to make indie labels huge (Fueled by Ramen) or fuck them over (Geffen vs. Drive-Thru). They can allow bands that have grown and put in their hard work to get what they deserve (Fall Out Boy) and also allow bands to piggyback off the success of bands who have put forth the hard work (Panic! At the Disco).

I think the dynamics have shifted so drastically from the way things used to work that it's almost impossible to make a decision based on how/when/where a band gets signed to a label.

But one important thing to make note of, I think, is that the scene is "artificially big" at the moment. MTV, Rolling Stone - fuck even the New York Times - is all over this stuff. And with that come the "poseurs." They'll be gone in a few years. And along with them, will go the swell of bands that formed in order to get a piece of the action. The bands who laid the groundwork, toured their asses off, and legitimately put their blood, sweat, heart, and tears into their bands will be the one's left standing.

Why? Because it's not a choice. It's what they need to do. It may sound a tad melodramatic, but it's true. And if you need to see any evidence of this, take a look at New Found Glory.

That band consistently sells 500K+ each time they release a record. And while it may appear that they get a crap-ton of radio and MTV support...Really, only one of their videos per record gets decent airplay on MTV and only the lead single will get played on the radio. And it doesn't stick around for very long. Compared to the amount of time the band spends busting their ass on the road...That's nothing.

I'm convinced they could release a record with no radio or MTV support and sell 300K with no problem at all. Who knows. Maybe in a few years, Panic! At the Disco will be able to pull that off. But for now, I'm skeptical.

Basically, what you're seeing is something that you've seen a hundred times before. The majors see what's selling, commodify it, tap the underground dry, then move on a few years later. This time, though, the Internet is in full-swing, and magnifying it.

It's interesting, to say the least. Was anybody reading this heavily involved with the scene when all of this was going down in '94? With Green Day, the Offspring, Face to Face, Rancid, Jawbreaker, Samiam, etc? I'd be curious to see how they're viewing this...

[Get Fucked]

Dashboard is practically on Interscope. No way to deny. I know for a fact.Congratulations?

[mattregan]

I interupt this discussion to bring you new Dashboard Clips off the album
http://www.plan9music.com/?node=item&id=3300000137

[offsetgroupie]

o i had thought it meant that a band signed to an indie but had talked to a major and had like an understanding they would be signed once they had released the cd under the indie and it sold well

There are no "had like an understanding" in these situations. That shit is in writing. No major label is dumb enough to let that slide. unless you're drive thru and you let Chris Caraba do it.

[bigmike]

I think some kids are delving way too deep into this.
Listen, I like feeling that connection with bands that grow up before your eyes just as much as any kid here, but let's face it, music's music. You like what you like regardless of the label, of the artists, whether they're "deserving" of being in the position they are or not.

I've seen Jason say this before; "You've got to seperate the music from the people writing it," which is 100% true. If you like the music, you like the music. Who they're signed to, their hardships they went through/didn't go through, their image, etc, all shouldn't matter. Just listen kids. At the end of the day, it's really just music.

[[Mike]]

I have no problem whatsoever of bands signing straight to a major label, hell if they get the offer they should take it. But if they don't have a decent fanbase or stand out among their labelmates, they don't have a shot in hell compared to signing to an indie label.

As for the "faking indie", I do have a problem with that. Just admit that you have signed to a major label, anyone who stops listening to a band because they are "mainstream" isn't a true fan at all. Don't try to play to them by pretending to be something that you aren't.

[JackBauer]

The scene or what it is will kill itself off. There is no getting around hard work and constant touring. That will keep a band around long after mainstream fame moves on. People respect the hardwork and also people know whats good. NFG will be around for a long time and so will a band like Brand New. They dont need labels pushing them. But on the other hand selling a lot of records will definitely help you once you fade away from the mainstream. Yellowcard can still sell its fair share my just them being yellowcard. Mainly this shit is labels throwing a bunch of bands to a wall and seeing which one is going to do well. To hit it big you need so much going for you. And its sad to say having the right songs isnt t he most important thing. So whatever, this shit is lame. But you know I think FOB is a great band and they will still be great once they arent paid attention too anymore.

[coolroxy]

remember those rumors when paramore came out that it was just a test run by a major label to see if she couild make it and then go to a major. Is there any truth to that?

if there is than that is probably happening a lot and is messed up
That's the defintion of upstreaming. Everyone does it, a lot of them don't think we know. The indies all have affiliations with majors. They gotta make their money somehow . . . kinda like how tv networks will premiere their less-promising shows in the off-season and if they hit, put them on in the fall.

[coolroxy]

days away for downstream.

1 point for me.
I had no idea. Who is the major? Atlantic?

[tom_wim]

Personally if I'm going to buy a CD I am more likely to buy a CD from an indie than I am a major, but thats more to do with preferiing the music on an indie than a major, as long as its good music thats the main thing. One thing about Indie's that I think is better for a band is the reputation an indie has. Everytime TMG, FBR etc has a new signing I will go and check out that band if I dont know them and am probably more likely to buy their CD, where as Im not going to go check out the latest Atlantic or Colombia signing. I think with bands have more staying power if they've been on indies and built up a loyal fanbase by touring and working their way up the venues, as was pointed out earlier I think NFG are a good example.

[NationalProduct]

anything that sounds close the killers, i write off immediately

the faint is the only band that did it right.

i 100% agree, dance macabre

[The Revisionist]

Not really. They will be popular for a week or a month or so, but if they are ingenuine, people will be able to sense that, and they will fall to the wayside soon enough. They may be a thorn for just a little bit, but once we get through that, then it's smooth sailing.

[mikedoerr]

im thinking it may be cartel... im pretty sure that acceptance signed with a major but requested to have an ep released on the militia group before jumping up to columbia. good posibility that this happened with cartel to. i'm all for it, i think, from a business and marketing standpoint and from the point of view of someone in a band, its great. benefits of an indie label with the financial help of a major. cartel is an awesome band, my old band pl;ayed a show with them a week before their EP came out and there were about 5 people there, we played, then they played and had all 5 kids going like nuts and really gave it their all in a situation where most bands kinda just go through the motions and get out of there asap. respect

[ocdrum182tb]

there are many bands that come out of nowhere and are on major labels, i personally think that actually hurts the band as many of them havnt developed a fan base or got their name around. major labels are more money oriented and are less concerned about the "scene" and expect the band to sell a certain amount or it is adios. the whole indie first step almost always seems to be the smart one.
but then again im sure some people can make it work.
i definitely agree. most bands are so willing to do any thing to sign to a label, they end up runing what could have been a good career by going with a major and not exactly flopping, but not selling enough cds to satisfy the greed of the major. a band signs an indie deal and their first cd does 30k+ and they will have majors loving them. if they sign to a major and sell 30k, 40k, 50k, they are dropped.

[leftstranded]

i'm a little late on this conversation. but i don't care if a band get's picked up right away, as long as they are honest about their intentions and they have good music. if i can get into it and their not trying to be something their not than that's when i have a problem.

anytime a band is fake it turns me off.

[leftstranded]

so Paramore is a scheme for Hayley to go solo? or what?

i fucking love them/her....

if that were true they wouldn't have tryed to get new members when the others quit. and the others probably wouldn't have quit just because a scheme would mean they were getting payed a good amount of money. if you accually go and talk to them at a show they are all really nice people and they seem to be tight as a band. so to asnwer your question all signs point to no

[Montjoy!]

Coming from the perspective of a band signing straight to a major (my brothers band just did), they had a lot of interest from indies but actually had more freedom with the major. The indie labels were the ones who were concerned about image and being "cool" whereas the major just loved the music. Another thing that really matters is who your A&R is. My brothers band has A&R who just love the music and the band and have fought for the band with all the people in charge. So who you have as your A&R really matters. And probably the most important thing with signing to ANY label is why you are signed. It might be that when you are signed as a pop band then the label will fight any changes with regards to style.....just wanted to throw that stuff out there

[halfwayXthere]

I'm pretty sure the original intent of this post was referring to Boys Like Girls, and if that's the case, all they've done so far is announce a distributor, correct? They haven't announced a label yet, but they have been touring, playing shows, and recording an album. So far, there's no evidence in the open that they've signed to a major label. In my eyes, right now, they're gaining their coveted "cred," because while not being a band for too long, they are still doing things that adhere to the "cool formula." You'd think since they're releasing their album in August, if they had their major label support right now, they'd be hyping the shit out of it right now. I haven't seen one thing about it aside from the announcement on Purevolume about it being available in August.

If this post isn't about this band, it still doesn't matter to me. I'm not interested in a band's credibility, as long as I like their music. Now, if I end up conversing with a member of a band that is "guilty" of what Jason says, and they're a dick to me, I'm sure that will heavily alter me listening to their music, but that's a personal vendetta and isn't fair to the actual songs.

That's why unless I'm interviewing a band, I don't go out of my way to contact them personally. If more people would keep their noses out of a band's business, people wouldn't be so bitter about stuff.

[wristsNeyes]

My brothers band has A&R who just love the music and the band and have fought for the band with all the people in charge. So who you have as your A&R really matters.

That's the same song and dance every major label A&R does. It's kind of like bargaining for a new car with the sales person - same idea. See how much pull he'll have, and how much fighting he does if the album doesn't sell incredibly well soon after it is released, you may have a much different perspective then.

Congrats to your brother and his band though.

[jsteil]

My 2 Cents

It all depends on the situation the band is in including how old they are, do they have kids, do they have school loans, do they have a morgage to pay, ect. Sure you can survice on a small indie from your local city if your just playing local and regional shows. When it comes to doing this as your lifes career your not going to want to work at Taco Bell or Walmart for $5.15 an hour, you want to have the best promotion, the best a & r team, and the best distribution you can for your artistic work and you want to be able to live off of it without having to call upon family to let you borrow money because you have a flat tire in Arizona, or a blown engine in New York. , or you didnt get paid because the promotor of the show stiffed you. If your just starting out sometimes you have to take baby steps and for alot of band's I would say signing to a small indie would be ideal just so you can get your "beginings" such as how to deal with a contract, who is your lawyer, how to handle royalties, van, merch, and the list goes on. Then if the small label you delt with, lets say for a year, doesn't treat you well and your now free of them you can learn from your mistakes and come out a little bit wiser and hopefully sign to an Epitaph, Drive Thru, Equal Vison and then maybe a major.

I do have a problem with John Fildman that just picks up random bands, takes a look at their music skills and those that arnt up to par get cutt and then he brings in someone that he thinks is up to par on their musical skills. It happened to a band here in kansas city and they kicked out their drummer because of it and to my knowledge he was a pretty rad dude.