Once again.

[Safetyin#]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,85528,00.html

The blast came hours after the Palestinian parliament approved the Cabinet presented by Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas (search). Before the vote, Abbas spoke out against terrorism and indicated that his government would crack down on militant groups.



Just more proof the Palestinians DONT want peace. And are choosing not to live peacefully with Israel.

[Matthew]

I do not condone the actions of the Palestinian terrorists, but the actions of the extremists should not be construed as the actions of thr majority. Also, I can understand why the hate the Israeli so much. They were more or less kicked out of a land where their culture had thrived for thousands of years because the rest of the world was guilt-tripping after failing to prevent the Holocaust.

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by ScreamoEMOBoy
I do not condone the actions of the Palestinian terrorists, but the actions of the extremists should not be construed as the actions of thr majority. Also, I can understand why the hate the Israeli so much. They were more or less kicked out of a land where their culture had thrived for thousands of years because the rest of the world was guilt-tripping after failing to prevent the Holocaust.

i know you guys hate to admit it but the Israeli's also have cultural ties to the land.

And Palestinians were given equal amounts of land, they just choose to support an attack on israel, by syria, jordan, and eygpt. And they lost there land, so it was pretty much there own fault.

[evil zach]

Originally posted by cal1082
You can't blame the majority of the Palestinian people, but you can blame the Palestinian gov. for not controlling the extremist.
Thats just the thing. they can't controll them. As long as the nation of isreal exists their will be muslim extreamests trying to bring it down. Dose this justify forcing the palestinians to live in sub-standard conditions, shooting peace activist, bulldozing homes, numbering people at check points (much like what was done to the jews during the holocaust), shooting people for being out after curfew, ect.? No. Isreal is guilt tripping the word for not acting fast enough during the holocaust (even though most people had no idea what was going on.) How esaly the opressed become the opressors. The average palestinian want's peace with isreal. They want to co-exist peacefully. Its just a few fanatic fucks who take it upon themselves to blow themselves up in the market place. You can't punish the majority for the actions of a few.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by ScreamoEMOBoy
I do not condone the actions of the Palestinian terrorists, but the actions of the extremists should not be construed as the actions of thr majority. Also, I can understand why the hate the Israeli so much. They were more or less kicked out of a land where their culture had thrived for thousands of years because the rest of the world was guilt-tripping after failing to prevent the Holocaust.
Yes. The world failed to prevent the Holocaust. Why? Appeasement. It is very similar to the situation we just dealed with and continue to deal with now. We appeased Hitler, he killed a ton of people. We scolded the world for letting stuff like that happen, hindsight 20/20. Recently we had to deal with Saddam killing tons of people. We appeased for 12 years. We grew some testicles, we ended his reign before it got out of hand. We learned from history. And when I say "we" I mean those supporting the war. I find it funny that people (EMOBoy in particular) who criticize the world for not doing anything during WWII, yet they turn around and say how we shouldnt get involved in a nearly carbon copy of then. To me thats hypocritical. And it was wrong for the UN to hand the Jews they keys to the holy land. It would have been much more reasonable to carve them out a piece of Germany or Poland or something. However, that was about 60 years ago. We cannot give the Palestinians back their land...too much time has passed. I wish we could, but it is just not possible. What can we do now? Really there isnt much. The only thing I can think of is making the holy land neutral. But that would be a perfect world.

[evil zach]

Nobody new exactly what was going on in germany prior to the end of the second world war. They just thought that hitler was a bit of a prick. I'm trying to defend the holocaust or anything, but to say we should have acted on somthing that we didn't know was happening is rediculus

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by evil zach
Nobody new exactly what was going on in germany prior to the end of the second world war. They just thought that hitler was a bit of a prick. I'm trying to defend the holocaust or anything, but to say we should have acted on somthing that we didn't know was happening is rediculus
actually i have heard from several people that both the US and britain had know FOR SURE that hitler was killing Jews in 1942. The camps were liberated in 45.

[evil zach]

But before that point nobody really had any idea wht was happening for sure. The only people who knew were high ranking nazi officals and those who ran the camps. Also you can't expect them to waltz in and liberat the camps overnight. Wern't the allies loosing the war at that point?

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by evil zach
But before that point nobody really had any idea wht was happening for sure. The only people who knew were high ranking nazi officals and those who ran the camps. Also you can't expect them to waltz in and liberat the camps overnight. Wern't the allies loosing the war at that point?
They didnt know for sure until 42, they still had a clue what was going on before that. anyway, you are right, they couldnt liberate overnight, but people didnt want to fight then. and yes the allies were losing the war then, because the allies mainly were uk and france. the us at that point was "nuetral". that is until late 41, then we turned that war around and kicked ass. you are welcome france

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by evil zach
But before that point nobody really had any idea wht was happening for sure. The only people who knew were high ranking nazi officals and those who ran the camps. Also you can't expect them to waltz in and liberat the camps overnight. Wern't the allies loosing the war at that point?


Thats not true, the NY times reported on the Construction of Dauchu as early as 1938, the world knew what was happening all through the Holocaust, it was just our leadership (FDR) was full of such anti-semites that no one wanted to stop it.


And they didn't have to liberate the camps but they could have bombed the gas chambers and factorys and the rail lines, but FDR said these things weren't "important"

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by evil zach
Thats just the thing. they can't controll them.

They may not be able to control them, but they don't have to support them either. arafat (which i refues to capitalize because he deserve no respect) has supported terrorists and terrorist acts his entire time in "office". And the pal. continously suported him, knowing full well that he was a terrorist, so inturn they are kind of respondsible for his actions and those of groups he supported.

[NOFXdesendents5]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
and yes the allies were losing the war then, because the allies mainly were uk and france. the us at that point was "nuetral". that is until late 41, then we turned that war around and kicked ass. you are welcome france

lol. i hate those goddamn frogs heh heh.

it is a very odd situation that we are in right now.

on one hand, yes, the palestinians did lose their land, but at the same time, politically anyway, the land wasnt theirs to be taken away from. it was controlled by great britian. they knew that they would not be able to control the land saw instead, freed the area and put the israelis there.

there was minimal problem for a few years, until the palestinians began to overpopulate and the arab governments united. this caused the arab countries to attempt an invasion of israel (which was stuningly repelled!).

now, the arabs hate israel and the israelis are forced to enter palestinian cities in searches for weapons. sometimes, a shell hits a house as well. sometimes killing a civilian even. the extremists, then respond by killing a bus full of people. israeli soldiers then retaliate. palestinians blow up a store and so on...

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by evil zach
Wern't the allies loosing the war at that point?

Yep and would have lost if it hadn't been for america steping in.

The only nations in europe would be Vichy france, germany, and Russia (although Russia would be much smaller then it is now and would probably still be at war with the NAZIS.) now if we hadn't steped in.

And most of that was because of those on the lefts facination with Appeasement WHICH never works. But keep trying american will bail you out, we always do. (damn i sound like that Brandnew kid now.)

[The Nephilm]

Originally posted by Safetyin#
i know you guys hate to admit it but the Israeli's also have cultural ties to the land.

And Palestinians were given equal amounts of land, they just choose to support an attack on israel, by syria, jordan, and eygpt. And they lost there land, so it was pretty much there own fault.

native americans have cultural ties in the US... lets give em back their land!

[EmoMoose86]

Originally posted by The Nephilm
native americans have cultural ties in the US... lets give em back their land!


they got reservations... and they arent suicide bombing malls... and we arent shooting at them... and everything is happy.

i find that a poor argument.

Can you tell me the history of the area that is today Israel?

It has been taken over by nearly 8 civilizations - probably more now that i think about it.

It was British (or French- i know Leb was French- perhaps Palastine was too) - then it was given to Israel... and the Palastinans got mad. As they should- but they werent mad when it was British/French were they- at least... not as much.

Yes- it has been Arab for a long time- but it has also been Jewish for a long time too... so it really isnt like Israel RAN thru Palastine and TOOK the land and HURT EVERYONE BLAH BLAH BLAH. no... they didnt. and then the arabs decided to have a couple wars with them... which they lost.

I dunno- I find it a poor argument to say "ITS PALASTINAN LAND!" ... When it is also Jewish land as well- just as rightfully. And that is what makes the debate so heated.

[evil zach]

Originally posted by EmoMoose86
they got reservations... and they arent suicide bombing malls... and we arent shooting at them... and everything is happy.

i find that a poor argument.


Reservations are bullshit. Do you really think its ok to waltz in and say "we're kicking you off your land, but don't worry you have a little parcel to call you own. By the way if you chose to live thier you can't vote" The natives got the shit end of the stick. Theres no way around that.

[EmoMoose86]

Originally posted by evil zach
Reservations are bullshit. Do you really think its ok to waltz in and say "we're kicking you off your land, but don't worry you have a little parcel to call you own. By the way if you chose to live thier you can't vote" The natives got the shit end of the stick. Theres no way around that.

yea- you're right- they did get kicked off their land- and i find it sad. But they do- however- have a TON of privledges being a Native American.
Taxes are different (less- lots less)
They do have a lot of land (as in reservations)
and i dunno... there's more
Today, native Americans are just happy (at the most part i suppose) being American... I mean- 150 years ago- that was a very different story... a very horrible story i might add.

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by The Nephilm
native americans have cultural ties in the US... lets give em back their land!

Well they got a sixth of arizona. And are Tax free. They get free educations. And dont have to abide by federal and most state laws.

Also i didn't bring up the conection to culture, im just saying that both sides have cultural ties.

The land was split up evenly, the Pal. fucked themselves, and now without even trying to apoligies for there actions in the 1947 war, which cost them there land, they want israel to make conscsions, when they haven't earned them or even tried to work with Israel.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by evil zach
Reservations are bullshit. Do you really think its ok to waltz in and say "we're kicking you off your land, but don't worry you have a little parcel to call you own. By the way if you chose to live thier you can't vote" The natives got the shit end of the stick. Theres no way around that.
i guess its survival of the fitest, or most technologically advanced. anyway that was 150 years ago. there was no such thing as human rights

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by evil zach
Reservations are bullshit. Do you really think its ok to waltz in and say "we're kicking you off your land, but don't worry you have a little parcel to call you own. By the way if you chose to live thier you can't vote" The natives got the shit end of the stick. Theres no way around that.

You do understand that there not forced to live there, they can move off if they find them bad.

[BrandNewRock05]

plus no body on the face of the earth had to live through the indians being kicked off of their land, so why should anyone be compensated today? they didnt suffer an ounce.

[evil zach]

Originally posted by Safetyin#
You do understand that there not forced to live there, they can move off if they find them bad.
Nobody is forced to do anything

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by evil zach
Nobody is forced to do anything
Read again. Thats just what he said

[evil zach]

I was agreeing with him on that. My opinion still hasn't changed

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by evil zach
I was agreeing with him on that. My opinion still hasn't changed ok, sorry i cant figure out tone in type

[evil zach]

Its alright, I can't alot of the time either

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by evil zach
numbering people at check points (much like what was done to the jews during the holocaust

The difference is that the palestinians brought this on themselves, the Jews in Europe did nothing other then being an easy target.

[evil zach]

Nobody deserev to be given a number instead of a name. we are all human, even if if a few fucktards elected themselves as your representatives.

[The Nephilm]

Originally posted by Safetyin#


The land was split up evenly, the Pal. fucked themselves, and now without even trying to apoligies for there actions in the 1947 war, which cost them there land, they want israel to make conscsions, when they haven't earned them or even tried to work with Israel.

It wasn't split evenly. The Jews were given every religious part, and the palestinians were tossed into the fucking desert.

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by The Nephilm
It wasn't split evenly. The Jews were given every religious part, and the palestinians were tossed into the fucking desert.

Man i hate to say that you might be wrong, but the Jews actually got most of the Desert.

http://www.mideastweb.org/unpartition.htm

I dont know if you know much about Israel but most of the desert is in the Negev area of the map, or southern Israel, which as you can see was "granted" to the Israelis.

Also most of the historically areas ly in the central part of Israel which as you can were controled by Palestine, until they fucked up.

[evil zach]

Isreal has controll of most of the religious areas though.

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by evil zach
Isreal has controll of most of the religious areas though.

Ya, but why do they have the control of these lands now?

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by evil zach
Nobody deserev to be given a number instead of a name. we are all human, even if if a few fucktards elected themselves as your representatives.

But what do you expect the Israelis to do, when the terrorist use common citizens (children) as bombs. Israel has no choice but to check every person entering the country or the terroritories.

Also there not taking there name away, there just giving them a number to keep check on them, much like every US citizen has social security number. Also, the Paliestians don't see the israelis as humans anyway, so why would they care if their given a number by them. Would it hurt your self esteme if a "nonhuman" gave/called you by a number instead of your name?

[evil zach]

I don;t know hwere you heard that palestinias don't concider the israelis to be human, but I have a hard time beliveing it.

As for palestinians using children as bombs, thats completly inesxcusable, but at the same time isreal requires everybody when they turn 18 to complete madatory military srvice. 3 years for males, and 2 for females. That means you have 18 year old CHILDREN (yes, a teenager is still a child) shooting palestinians

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by evil zach
I don;t know hwere you heard that palestinias don't concider the israelis to be human, but I have a hard time beliveing it.

As for palestinians using children as bombs, thats completly inesxcusable, but at the same time isreal requires everybody when they turn 18 to complete madatory military srvice. 3 years for males, and 2 for females. That means you have 18 year old CHILDREN (yes, a teenager is still a child) shooting palestinians

1. there own mouths.

2. Although i dont believe in manditory military involvement, i do think that israel is one of the few countries that has to have a strong military for there own survival.


Also when does a person become an adult? when they finish school? are able to vote? drink (in most countries)? hold office?

[evil zach]

18, but being an adult is much more then an age. it aslo has alot do to with emotional maturaty, and generaly an 18 year old isnt that mature.

[BrandNewRock05]

ill agree with that. however some mature far before 18, like you zach. you seem to be a fairly mature person. much more mature than neph and much younger as well. bravo.

[evil zach]

hahahaha! That was pretty funny

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by evil zach
18, but being an adult is much more then an age. it aslo has alot do to with emotional maturaty, and generaly an 18 year old isnt that mature.

By your standards, i know alot of people that will never be an adult.................so what do we do then?

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
ill agree with that. however some mature far before 18, like you zach. you seem to be a fairly mature person. much more mature than neph and much younger as well. bravo.

why do you still bring up NEPH. he hasn't been here in weeks?

do you miss him?

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by Safetyin#
why do you still bring up NEPH. he hasn't been here in weeks?

do you miss him?
I miss pissing him off and proving him wrong.....sob*....I told myself I wasnt going to cry.....sorry....