Why does everyone dislike victory records?

[ate_teenfourevr]

are they douchebags to their bands, or just produce shitty music?

ppl keep saying that Amber Pacific just ruined themselves by signing with victory.


thoughts?

[Neo Cassady]

The former. (http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1525066/20060228/hawthorne_heights.jhtml)

[phil19]

victory have put out some good records :shrug:

[mmmmmpoetry]

both

[Mesthead!]

They have Streetlight Manifesto, but besides that I don't like them.

[JustAGirl01]

Thursday/Victory fiasco-->http://www.punknews.org/article/3601

[maxvsmaradona]

Bayside > Victory

[Mibabalou]

the whole hawthorne heights/thursday/bayside/takingbacksunday

[kearn1tm]

They never signed The Rock to a recording deal.

[OdeToTheSun]

Because they put stickers on their bands albums saying "For fans of *insert band name here*" when the band sounds nothing like the bands they compared them too.

But yeah, they treat their bands shitty too from what I've heard.

[Burn That Shit]

They never signed The Rock to a recording deal.

I mean....I agree, but that's every record label ever.

[k1guitar]

i know all the other bands, but what happened with bayside? i herd their re-printing sirens and condolences to vinyl without talking to the band, but is there anything else?

[roche]

I believe their bad name comes from the owner Tony Brummel, who I hear is a total douche.

[Jonnyborg]

Because they used to have good bands. Now they don't.
also, they've been huge dicks to a bunch of their bands. withholding royalties and all that good stuff.

[rob_mylo]

i know all the other bands, but what happened with bayside? i herd their re-printing sirens and condolences to vinyl without talking to the band, but is there anything else?

yeah im curious also.

[Jake Denning]

They treat the bands they sign like crap

Frankie from Emmure said that they have to have a new CD out every 14 months plus tour full time.

Not to mention that they re-released Homesick from ADTR just recently, when the CD came out in Jan or Feb of this year.

[kearn1tm]

I mean....I agree, but that's every record label ever.

Hence why I hate labels; the lack of Rock is a problem and it's leading toward the inevitable destruction of the music industry.

[Burn That Shit]

Hence why I hate labels; the lack of Rock is a problem and it's leading toward the inevitable destruction of the music industry.

well i mean has the rock ever expressed interest in a recording deal? I mean the whole "i dig music" bit is john cena's thing, no?

edit: the phrase "i mean" rules.

[xJesusFreakx]

Hence why I hate labels; the lack of Rock is a problem and it's leading toward the inevitable destruction of the music industry.

Tony Brummel agrees. (http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1525066/20060228/hawthorne_heights.jhtml)

[vivian_vitality]

They treat the bands they sign like crap

Frankie from Emmure said that they have to have a new CD out every 14 months plus tour full time.

Not to mention that they re-released Homesick from ADTR just recently, when the CD came out in Jan or Feb of this year.

Are you serious? That's an album every year. That's crazy. I don't know why bands continue to sign to Victory.

[Chino In The AM]

drive thru > victory ?

[x togepi x]

AN ALBUM A YEAR? THAT'S.....THAT'S UNHEARD OF.


wait...you guys should actually listen to bands with real musicians instead of awkward looking scenester shit.

[anthonydarko]

They've withheld money from bands that rightfully belongs to them and they've given inadequate support to many bands while putting one band on a pedestal that gets all of their attention.

[Raarzipan]

They also had a small issue with atreyu, to add to that list.

Basically they give the bands crappy deals and they don't realize it, force the bands to do things they don't want to and will manipulate a bands sound a bunch/not allow them to change. Over fund one band, don't give another any money.

[Montauk1222]

Nothing happened between Bayside and Victory, Bayside just fulfilled their contract with them and decided to pursue other options in the industry.

[HometownHero]

AN ALBUM A YEAR? THAT'S.....THAT'S UNHEARD OF.


wait...you guys should actually listen to bands with real musicians instead of awkward looking scenester shit.
Quality over quantity asshat

[foisol]

I love how everybody acts like they're on the label, or in a signed band that had trouble with Victory. Get over it. Bands like Thursday, Hawthorne Heights, Atreyu and Taking Back Sunday (especially) may have had issues with the label, but look where they are now. If bands have been around long enough and relevant enough, they can make their own decisions on who to sign with and under what terms.

Personally I think any indie label is better than signing to a major.

[x togepi x]

Quality over quantity asshat

The fact that you're citing a band like Emmure and expecting quality is ridiculous, but my point still stands. Writing an album a year isn't that hard when you're an actual musician. One reason a lot of people don't do it is because of label restraints.

in 2009, i have little sympathy for any new band on victory records given all the shit they've done in the past.

[x togepi x]

I love how everybody acts like they're on the label, or in a signed band that had trouble with Victory. Get over it. Bands like Thursday, Hawthorne Heights, Atreyu and Taking Back Sunday (especially) may have had issues with the label, but look where they are now. If bands have been around long enough and relevant enough, they can make their own decisions on who to sign with and under what terms.

Personally I think any indie label is better than signing to a major.

the fact that you think victory is an indie label is hilarious.

[pth231]

AN ALBUM A YEAR? THAT'S.....THAT'S UNHEARD OF.


wait...you guys should actually listen to bands with real musicians instead of awkward looking scenester shit.

I would say thats a bit much to ask of a band personally. With constant touring writing an album a year isn't as easy as it may seem. And it should be the easiest thing in the world for a scene band haha just nothing but one long breakdown with some screaming over it and toss in some auto tune and bam, done.

[x togepi x]

I would say thats a bit much to ask of a band personally. With constant touring writing an album a year isn't as easy as it may seem. And it should be the easiest thing in the world for a scene band haha just nothing but one long breakdown with some screaming over it and toss in some auto tune and bam, done.

I think it's a bit to ask for as well, but it's not unheard of. The band also shoulders a decent amount of responsibility in signing such a contract without looking at it closely.

This is different than the case of thursday who wasn't getting paid for merch.

[Twikki]

Because they put stickers on their bands albums saying "For fans of *insert band name here*" when the band sounds nothing like the bands they compared them too.

But yeah, they treat their bands shitty too from what I've heard.

not true, the only reason i listened to bayside was because on the sticker it said 'for fans of alkaline trio' and the similarities are very near

[DanTGD]

well i mean has the rock ever expressed interest in a recording deal? I mean the whole "i dig music" bit is john cena's thing, no?.

*coughs and gets into "the rock" voice* IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK.

[Wake Up]

cuzz they nevar released the new ELLIOT smiTH reissueeesszzz and instead signed HAwthOrn3 H3ighTzz

[vivian_vitality]

AN ALBUM A YEAR? THAT'S.....THAT'S UNHEARD OF.


wait...you guys should actually listen to bands with real musicians instead of awkward looking scenester shit.

I'm pretty aware that having an album out every year isn't unheard of. All I was saying was that, Victory was asking a bit much of them to do. Touring all year and trying to put out an album? Seems a little hard to do.

[saveferris]

I believe their bad name comes from the owner Tony Brummel, who I hear is a total douche.
You heard right.

[saveferris]

drive thru > victory ?
It's not 2002 anymore. Or else that might be true. Actually it might be more of a tie.

[kearn1tm]

well i mean has the rock ever expressed interest in a recording deal? I mean the whole "i dig music" bit is john cena's thing, no?

edit: the phrase "i mean" rules.

Uh, The Rock shouldn't have to pursue labels, they should beg him to sign.

Tony Brummel agrees. (http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1525066/20060228/hawthorne_heights.jhtml)

Who?

[sleepyseanzzz]

i used to love drive thru when it was the starting line, early november, homegrown, new found glory, senses fail, socratic, hellogoodbye. not as much anymore

besides the hawthorne heights deal.....victory is just trying to make money by putting a day to remember's album out as a deluxe when it just came out in february to make more money, come on now. 2 acoustic tracks and a dvd

[xJesusFreakx]

Who?

This man. (http://jawkdna.com/myspace/TONY.jpg) Not to be confused with this man. (http://www.victoryrecords.com/kurt/KurtAngle_Victory-1.jpg)

[4N6 science]

Epitaph ftw!

[andrew182182]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Spitalfield yet. They were such a great, talented, underrated band that should have blown up had it not been for Victory. Instead they were underpromoted, while having their royalties stolen until they finally called it quits. Victory ruins good bands and capitalizes on their "success" which is never reciprocated.

[theguy77]

acting like this label is any worse than the next label is absurd. almost any semi-major label will fuck over a band that is not a good investment financially. the reason victory records is more infamous for it starts with the whole fiasco with thursday's merch where geoff delivered a public statement against tony brummel, one that was well articulated and very vindictive and really actually did a great job of making tony look shitty, but that kind of stuff can happen with any label.

[Fullblast]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Spitalfield yet. They were such a great, talented, underrated band that should have blown up had it not been for Victory. Instead they were underpromoted, while having their royalties stolen until they finally called it quits. Victory ruins good bands and capitalizes on their "success" which is never reciprocated.
Was just thinking about them today, I started to get into them around the time they broke up.

[theguy77]

The fact that you're citing a band like Emmure and expecting quality is ridiculous, but my point still stands. Writing an album a year isn't that hard when you're an actual musician. One reason a lot of people don't do it is because of label restraints.

in 2009, i have little sympathy for any new band on victory records given all the shit they've done in the past.

mmm, i might disagree. i mean, sure, if you're experienced with songwriting you can just use your experience with effective compositional patterns and turn any song ideas you come up with into well-developed pop-rock music, but in a lot of cases i feel like you would end up forcing mediocre ideas into songs, which can lead to inconsistent and unfocused albums. to really develop a quality product that is aesthetically sound from the backbone to the production, i personally feel that its best to be patient and stockpile 50 or more song ideas before narrowing it down and developing the ones that really matter and really sound good. and if you're a real perfectionist who sets a high standard for yourself that can take at least 2 years. writing an album a year isnt that difficult but writing an effective album that you are proud of and feel like was a complete accomplishment every year is hard.

[kearn1tm]

This man. (http://jawkdna.com/myspace/TONY.jpg) Not to be confused with this man. (http://www.victoryrecords.com/kurt/KurtAngle_Victory-1.jpg)

Oh, Kurt. Why?!

[Burn That Shit]

Who would've thought Kurt Angle an Aiden fan?

[HometownHero]

The fact that you're citing a band like Emmure and expecting quality is ridiculous, but my point still stands. Writing an album a year isn't that hard when you're an actual musician. One reason a lot of people don't do it is because of label restraints.

in 2009, i have little sympathy for any new band on victory records given all the shit they've done in the past.
I have never heard an Emmure song in my life. I was saying in general for all bands. Sometimes it takes years. But it is always worth the wait in most cases. Rushing an album is a terrible idea

[KingsCrossing]

acting like this label is any worse than the next label is absurd. almost any semi-major label will fuck over a band that is not a good investment financially. the reason victory records is more infamous for it starts with the whole fiasco with thursday's merch where geoff delivered a public statement against tony brummel, one that was well articulated and very vindictive and really actually did a great job of making tony look shitty, but that kind of stuff can happen with any label.

While I do agree with the bolded statement above, Thursday isn't the only band that has publicly voiced their opinion on Victory's less than stellar business practices. Not to mention the essay rippng into Tony written by Ramsey Dean, former VP.

[Rid Ickulous]

This thread definently does not deliver, get a clue people!

Google these things:
"The Horror" (definently this one...)
Thursday leaves Victory
Why I Never Bought A Hatebreed CD (Proves that Tony has always been the way he is, even before he started signing more accessible bands)
Atreyu Letter

But then again, they do promote most of their artists very well. I remember reading an interview with Endwell talking about their whole Victory deal and it was basically Tony giving them everything they wanted to make a great record, but they managed to spin it like "we were just given alot of money, we just wanted to be catchy, we forgot about our roots but you would too if you were in our situation!" anyways...

[muttley]

I've had it in for them ever since they dropped Spitalfield.

[Chrisj182]

Tony promotes albums really well, but he was a dick to Hawthorne Heights and many other bands.

[trevorshmevor]

Tony promotes albums really well, but he was a dick to Hawthorne Heights and many other bands.

How does he promote albums well?

[the daniel]

Btbam.

[SophGod]

they have/had some sweet bands. they treat these bands like complete shit.

also they released an instrumental version of Atreyu's "The Curse" and "A Deathgrip On Yesterday"..... why?

[Poe-tryGirl]

I've had it in for them ever since they dropped Spitalfield.
And hasn't Bayside left too?

[trevorshmevor]

I love how everybody acts like they're on the label, or in a signed band that had trouble with Victory. Get over it. Bands like Thursday, Hawthorne Heights, Atreyu and Taking Back Sunday (especially) may have had issues with the label, but look where they are now. If bands have been around long enough and relevant enough, they can make their own decisions on who to sign with and under what terms.

Personally I think any indie label is better than signing to a major.

Although I do think that you're semi-right, I think you (along with nearly everyone else in this thread) are missing the point. I'm not calling anyone dumb, I just think the whole principle of why they're a shitty record label is being completely overlooked because of all of the big names that have signed to them.

The reason Victory is not a good record label is because they sign far too many bands. Go to their website and look for yourself, and tell me how many of those bands you're actually heard of more than once, or have even seen promoted somewhere. Hell, search "List of Victory Records artists" on wikipedia and look at the former ones, or go to http://www.victoryrecords.com/artist_alumni. They sign too many bands, and don't focus on any of them besides the ones that make money. Are they the only record label to do that? Absolutely not. I don't think that every band a label signs should be enormous (only in record label heaven), but it seems more often than not that Victory will just completely shut a band out if they aren't the next Taking Back Sunday. It's not right, and just because they're not the only label who does it doesn't make them "not so bad", it just makes all of the other labels who do do it, "just that bad".

I think Victory just tries too hard to act like a major label, when they are (as aforementioned in this thread) an indie one; and in my opinion, they should start acting like [an indie] one. If they honestly do not have the money to promote the bands that don't rake in the dough, they need to stop signing more bands, because it's only hurting their track record and the bands that apply to this little rant. Maybe hire new A&R, or I don't know, start using the funds they have to help out their smaller bands? Just because their first record wasn't a smash hit doesn't mean that it was their full potential. It's really surprising how many people will actually listen to/support a band if they are presented to them.

As for your statement about re-signing: I think that only works with the bands who actually did make it big. Try being that small band on a label when no one has ever heard of you, but attempting to make a living off of it. It often doesn't work, and a lot of bands break up because of that kind of stuff. Even if they were to make it through, it's probably not easy getting signed again to a decent label after you've been a band of a number of years, were already signed to a label for a certain amount of time, and failed to make that label money.

/rant

[muttley]

And hasn't Bayside left too?

I think Bayside left on good terms though. From what I was told, Spitalfield basically got screwed over.

[Poe-tryGirl]

I think Bayside left on good terms though. From what I was told, Spitalfield basically got screwed over.
Oh, alright. That blows.

[ReadyForAction]

I think Bayside left on good terms though. From what I was told, Spitalfield basically got screwed over.
Spitalfiel alone is reason enough to not like Victory, they were just as accesible and just as (if not more) talented then the pop rock bands getting attention now. Them and Acceptance breaking up are reason enough for me to not trust a label ever.

[tiredcommentary]

There's no reason anyone should consider Victory as an indie label, they haven't been for some time. They are just looking to sign the next Disturbed and go that route. Any indie/hardcore credibility went out the window years ago along with the talent.

Do yourself a favor and check out Victory's new nest egg, Destrophy (http://www.myspace.com/destrophy). That's the same recycled garbage that has been played by nu-metal bands since 96. I heard a rumor about "the deal" these guys got and it was like 4 albums for Victory and a 1 million dollar advance. Do you know how many records they have to sell to pay off that advance? A fuck ton! Those guys will be paying Tony Brummel's retirement long into their 50's(one or two of the guys in this band actually look pretty close to 40 already...)

Yes, Victory at one point put out some of my favorite records, but everyone has to realize this isn't the same Victory Records anymore. It's a major label with a mask to "identify" with the indie/hardcore/punk kids.

[Rid Ickulous]

There's no reason anyone should consider Victory as an indie label, they haven't been for some time. They are just looking to sign the next Disturbed and go that route. Any indie/hardcore credibility went out the window years ago along with the talent.

Do yourself a favor and check out Victory's new nest egg, Destrophy (http://www.myspace.com/destrophy). That's the same recycled garbage that has been played by nu-metal bands since 96. I heard a rumor about "the deal" these guys got and it was like 4 albums for Victory and a 1 million dollar advance. Do you know how many records they have to sell to pay off that advance? A fuck ton! Those guys will be paying Tony Brummel's retirement long into their 50's(one or two of the guys in this band actually look pretty close to 40 already...)

Yes, Victory at one point put out some of my favorite records, but everyone has to realize this isn't the same Victory Records anymore. It's a major label with a mask to "identify" with the indie/hardcore/punk kids.

All this "not the same anymore" bullshit is ridiculous, guess I have to link you myself..
.. http://d-wp.blogspot.com/2009/07/why-i-never-bought-hatebreed-cd.html

They were douchebags even 10 years ago, they never paid Refuse a dime for licensing their record.

[theguy77]

There's no reason anyone should consider Victory as an indie label, they haven't been for some time. They are just looking to sign the next Disturbed and go that route. Any indie/hardcore credibility went out the window years ago along with the talent.

Do yourself a favor and check out Victory's new nest egg, Destrophy (http://www.myspace.com/destrophy). That's the same recycled garbage that has been played by nu-metal bands since 96. I heard a rumor about "the deal" these guys got and it was like 4 albums for Victory and a 1 million dollar advance. Do you know how many records they have to sell to pay off that advance? A fuck ton! Those guys will be paying Tony Brummel's retirement long into their 50's(one or two of the guys in this band actually look pretty close to 40 already...)

Yes, Victory at one point put out some of my favorite records, but everyone has to realize this isn't the same Victory Records anymore. It's a major label with a mask to "identify" with the indie/hardcore/punk kids.

lol why would anyone ever sign to a 4 record deal with victory? i wouldnt accept that shit. until youve established a fanbase that is strong, loyal, and sizeable enough to carry you even while you're unsigned and support any new records you release after youve been dropped by a label, i would sign for one, two albums at the most, and then renew the contract afterward if theyve shown their label is a good fit for my music. that band is fucked if victory ever decides they're not interested in them as a band anymore, which could very easily happen after two albums let alone four.

[IWasaCamera]

Because it's poop in various orifices primarily.

[foisol]

Although I do think that you're semi-right, I think you (along with nearly everyone else in this thread) are missing the point. I'm not calling anyone dumb, I just think the whole principle of why they're a shitty record label is being completely overlooked because of all of the big names that have signed to them.

The reason Victory is not a good record label is because they sign far too many bands. Go to their website and look for yourself, and tell me how many of those bands you're actually heard of more than once, or have even seen promoted somewhere. Hell, search "List of Victory Records artists" on wikipedia and look at the former ones, or go to http://www.victoryrecords.com/artist_alumni. They sign too many bands, and don't focus on any of them besides the ones that make money. Are they the only record label to do that? Absolutely not. I don't think that every band a label signs should be enormous (only in record label heaven), but it seems more often than not that Victory will just completely shut a band out if they aren't the next Taking Back Sunday. It's not right, and just because they're not the only label who does it doesn't make them "not so bad", it just makes all of the other label who do do it, "just that bad".

I think Victory just tries too hard to act like a major label, when they are (as aforementioned in this thread) an indie one; and in my opinion, they should start acting like [an indie] one. If they honestly do not have the money to promote the bands that don't rake in the dough, they need to stop signing more bands, because it's only hurting their track record and the bands that apply to this little rant. Maybe hire new A&R, or I don't know, start using the funds they have to help out their smaller bands? Just because their first record wasn't a smash hit doesn't mean that it was their full potential. It's really surprising how many people will actually listen to/support a band if they are presented to them.

As for your statement about re-signing: I think that only works with the bands who actually did make it big. Try being that small band on a label no one has ever heard of, but attempting to make a living off of it. It often doesn't work, and a lot of bands break up because of that kind of stuff. Even if they were to make it through, it's probably not easy getting signed again to a decent label after you've been a band of a number of years, were already signed to a label for a certain amount of time, and failed to make that label money.

/rant

I really never thought of it that way. And you're right, I don't know half the bands on Victory's roster. That's pretty lame considering how big some Victory bands are, whereas an overwhelming amount is unknown.