AIDS money to Africa

[WithStamin]

What does everyone think about Bush's plan to send $15 billion to Africa to fight AIDS?

Personally, I think it's a betrayal to his conservative party and a huge waste of money in a budget that's already in trouble. You can't have you cake (tax cuts) and eat it too.

[evil zach]

I think its a step in the ridght direction, but I am interested to see how he pays for it, plus the war, and the tax cut

[WithStamin]

I hate to sound like an unfeeling arch-conservative, but I don't think that AIDS is necessarily bad. It's taking care of overpopulation in Africa, and, for the mostpart, you only get it if you choose to. Modern medicine and technology is a disaster for Africa because it puts them in a world that they're not ready for. They're culture has not evolved to the point where they can handle it. They're pretty much at critical mass, where they can't really progress as a society while they still have so much hunger and overpopulation. Less people = less hunger = more progress. I would be worried by AIDS if it were airborne or the likes, but as it is it's pretty much your choice if you get it. I have no sympathy for you if you did it to yourself.

[evil zach]

I don't even know where to begin with taht one

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by WithStamin
It's taking care of overpopulation in Africa, and, for the mostpart, you only get it if you choose to.

Concerning Africa, that is dumbest statement. The government in parts of Africa refused to address AIDS at all - should the citizens pay for the mistakes of a few morons? Furthermore, because of AIDS the country suffers huge economic blows, and will only become poorer. They cannot help themselves. Its no ones choice to get AIDS. They dont know, they are misinformed, and you are some kind of stupid.

[WithStamin]

Know what else deals a huge blow to Africa? Overpopulation. If every African is farming and making just enough to feed themselves, there will never be major progress made in their society. It wasn't until farming techniques improved in America that our culture started progressing rapidly. This may sound brutal(and, honestly, is), but it's the only real way I see to pull Africa out of the situation it's in.

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by WithStamin
They're culture has not evolved to the point where they can handle it. They're pretty much at critical mass, where they can't really progress as a society while they still have so much hunger and overpopulation.

Well there evolution, as you put it, could be due to the fact that most of the last two hundred yrs "White" europeans, have in slaved, oppressed and demoralized the people and destroyed or used up most of the natural resources. So you really cant blame them for being a little behind us.

Who are you to say what overpopulation is? Japan doesn't produce enough food to support there people without imports, and the same goes with England too. Should we cut off trade with them until a few million die, so that they can become self suffecent (?) on food?

[BrandNewRock05]

focus on prevention. why burn money on those who already have it? that is just prolonging their suffering and wasting money. i would focus on education and finding a cure. mainly just on education and prevention, because there has never been a cure for a virus, and i dont see one in the future.

[evil zach]

there have been preventative vacines though.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by evil zach
there have been preventative vacines though.
yeah, like the flu shot. however they are trying to find a CURE for an existing virus. shit, we havent even found a cure for the common cold, let alone AIDS

[WithStamin]

Originally posted by Safetyin#
Who are you to say what overpopulation is? Japan doesn't produce enough food to support there people without imports, and the same goes with England too. Should we cut off trade with them until a few million die, so that they can become self suffecent (?) on food? These nations have progressed past the point where they need to make their own food; they can import it. It's a totally different situation. Britian and Japan have big populations. However, they are not grown at an unbelieveably fast rate and they can sustain themselves. Africa is another story...

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by WithStamin
These nations have progressed past the point where they need to make their own food; they can import it. It's a totally different situation. Britian and Japan have big populations. However, they are not grown at an unbelieveably fast rate and they can sustain themselves. Africa is another story...
Plus Japan and Britain are both highly developed countries. Africa on the other hand is crammed full of diseased 3rd world countries.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

Originally posted by WithStamin
What does everyone think about Bush's plan to send $15 billion to Africa to fight AIDS?

Personally, I think it's a betrayal to his conservative party and a huge waste of money in a budget that's already in trouble. You can't have you cake (tax cuts) and eat it too.

I thought it was 16.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by NetNerdsRevenge
I thought it was 16.
doesnt matter, its too much

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by WithStamin
However, they are not grown at an unbelieveably fast rate and they can sustain themselves. Africa is another story...

No they cant if the could sustian themselves they would n't need to import food.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
doesnt matter, its too much

no argument there

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
Plus Japan and Britain are both highly developed countries. Africa on the other hand is crammed full of diseased 3rd world countries.

Again africa is impovershed, one because of the leadership they choose and sometimes have forced on them, but also because of Europe.

Also Japan is highly developed because the USA got them there, so if it worked there why shouldn't we try to help out other nations?

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by Safetyin#
Again africa is impovershed, one because of the leadership they choose and sometimes have forced on them, but also because of Europe.

Also Japan is highly developed because the USA got them there, so if it worked there why shouldn't we try to help out other nations?
we dropped nukes on japan, should we do that to africa as well?

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
we dropped nukes on japan, should we do that to africa as well?

wow, that had to be the dumbest point you've ever made.

Bush is talking about helping people fight a disease which has destroyed there economies and politicals systems and plunshed them back about a hundred years...........and now your comparing that to us nuking japan?

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by Safetyin#
wow, that had to be the dumbest point you've ever made.

Bush is talking about helping people fight a disease which has destroyed there economies and politicals systems and plunshed them back about a hundred years...........and now your comparing that to us nuking japan?
what i am saying is that we built japan up after nuking them, and by that i mean you cannot compare every situation to another

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
what i am saying is that we built japan up after nuking them, and by that i mean you cannot compare every situation to another

we built it up after a war that left it IMPOVERISHED so inturn i can compare it to what happend in Africa, because basically the Europeans did wage war on the Africans and left them with the mess there in now.

Also the "nuking" happened in just to cities, we did n't nuke the whole coutry, and both of those cities were military bases.

[Safetyin#]

also i can compare the two you brought up the idea of Africa being worthless because they couldn't produce enough food for there people and niether can Japan.

YOu also brought of the idea of war.

[BrandNewRock05]

im not asking for a lesson on ww2, because i know what happened. im just saying we built japan up after we kicked their ass. we (the us) didnt kick africa's ass. so you cant really compare the building up of africa and japan. it really is a moot point, but i was just saying.....

[Alex Djaferis]

Originally posted by evil zach
I don't even know where to begin with taht one

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
im not asking for a lesson on ww2, because i know what happened. im just saying we built japan up after we kicked their ass. we (the us) didnt kick africa's ass. so you cant really compare the building up of africa and japan. it really is a moot point, but i was just saying.....


So you are going to ignore the pain and struggle of the people in Africa because we didn't cause there pain, right?

But wasn't one of the reasons for going to war in Iraq to HELP the suffering people? We didn't have any part in there suffering but yet we helped them, and you supported it.

Is there only suffering in the world where Bush tells you there is?

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by Safetyin#
So you are going to ignore the pain and struggle of the people in Africa because we didn't cause there pain, right?

But wasn't one of the reasons for going to war in Iraq to HELP the suffering people? We didn't have any part in there suffering but yet we helped them, and you supported it.

Is there only suffering in the world where Bush tells you there is?
No, I know it sucks to live in Africa. But the thing is they brought their own problem on. Why they dont use the FREE contraceptives that the world has attempted to give them is beyond me. Why do they need to have 300 kids per household is beyond me. Why did they have to go rape monkeys is beyond me. I do feel sorry for them honestly, and I wish we could help. But you have to pick your battles. These people got themselves into this mess for the most part. The AIDS virus is uncurable, and a vaccination for it hasnt been found either. The only way to prevent AIDS is really through abstinence, which isnt likely to happen when the pop out a million kids a day for the sole purpose of work. And the other way to prevent AIDS, condoms, they dont use. So really, the money is a waste, you just prolong their suffering. I would love it if they could all be AIDS free and the world was a happy place, but thats not how its going to work. I find it funny that the same people who accuse the US for not getting involved in Africa are usually the same people who criticized the US for helping out in Iraq. Its because Bush went to Iraq and not Africa. Whatever Bush does, you guys are against. If Bush managed to cure AIDS by his hand, it would be considered an evil deed by you guys. Anyway, I'm just saying its a pointless waste of money, and I am dissapointed in Bush for doing this.

[Alex Djaferis]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
. Whatever Bush does, you guys are against. If Bush managed to cure AIDS by his hand, it would be considered an evil deed by you guys.

if he cures it by his hand, i'll never utter anything wrong of him again in my life.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by PeeDster
if he cures it by his hand, i'll never utter anything wrong of him again in my life.
You missed the point of what I wrote

[yeat182]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
No, I know it sucks to live in Africa. But the thing is they brought their own problem on. Why they dont use the FREE contraceptives that the world has attempted to give them is beyond me. Why do they need to have 300 kids per household is beyond me. Why did they have to go rape monkeys is beyond me. I do feel sorry for them honestly, and I wish we could help. But you have to pick your battles. These people got themselves into this mess for the most part. The AIDS virus is uncurable, and a vaccination for it hasnt been found either. The only way to prevent AIDS is really through abstinence, which isnt likely to happen when the pop out a million kids a day for the sole purpose of work. And the other way to prevent AIDS, condoms, they dont use. So really, the money is a waste, you just prolong their suffering. I would love it if they could all be AIDS free and the world was a happy place, but thats not how its going to work. I find it funny that the same people who accuse the US for not getting involved in Africa are usually the same people who criticized the US for helping out in Iraq. Its because Bush went to Iraq and not Africa. Whatever Bush does, you guys are against. If Bush managed to cure AIDS by his hand, it would be considered an evil deed by you guys. Anyway, I'm just saying its a pointless waste of money, and I am dissapointed in Bush for doing this.


the point is, AIDS isn't only Africa's problem anymore, it has spread world wide, and as long as the majority of AIDS is located in Africa, then that is where the most help will be needed to prevent it from become even more widespread than it already is.

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
No, I know it sucks to live in Africa. But the thing is they brought their own problem on. Why they dont use the FREE contraceptives that the world has attempted to give them is beyond me. Why do they need to have 300 kids per household is beyond me. Why did they have to go rape monkeys is beyond me. I do feel sorry for them honestly, and I wish we could help. But you have to pick your battles. These people got themselves into this mess for the most part. The AIDS virus is uncurable, and a vaccination for it hasnt been found either. The only way to prevent AIDS is really through abstinence, which isnt likely to happen when the pop out a million kids a day for the sole purpose of work. And the other way to prevent AIDS, condoms, they dont use. So really, the money is a waste, you just prolong their suffering. I would love it if they could all be AIDS free and the world was a happy place, but thats not how its going to work. I find it funny that the same people who accuse the US for not getting involved in Africa are usually the same people who criticized the US for helping out in Iraq. Its because Bush went to Iraq and not Africa. Whatever Bush does, you guys are against. If Bush managed to cure AIDS by his hand, it would be considered an evil deed by you guys. Anyway, I'm just saying its a pointless waste of money, and I am dissapointed in Bush for doing this.

First, you ignorant fool, aids started in ENGLAND not africa, the first case of aids was in a white male, not a african. So it was a white male who rapeds a monkey as you say (heaven forebid that his blood might have actually mixed with taht of a monkey instead of sex.)

Second Africas economy is based on AGRICULTURE, and because they use primative means to harvest crops they need more kids then the average american family. Also a four member american family pollutes more then an 8 member family in africa or any other third world nation.

Third NO disease is incurable, remimber polo?, all that is needed is the money to find the cure.

Fourth I havent criticised bush on every thing he has done, i supported his decission to go into Iraq, not only because the WOMD, but alos because of the freedoms it would allow the people of Iraq. Freedom from a dictator (communist, facist, socialist) is something i believe every earthling should experinece.
And i support his helping to fight aids. A real world wide problem.
And unlike you i actually voted for him, so don't say that im knocking any thing hes doing....................Also i would see your bad mouthing of his african plan as more harmful then any thing an anti-bush protester could ever do, because you personally call yourself conservative, and here you are making conservatives look uncompasionate.

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by yeat182
the point is, AIDS isn't only Africa's problem anymore, it has spread world wide, and as long as the majority of AIDS is located in Africa, then that is where the most help will be needed to prevent it from become even more widespread than it already is.

Its also expanding rapidly in Asia............How do you explain that one Brandnew, most of Asia is nolonger in a third world state?

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by PeeDster
if he cures it by his hand, i'll never utter anything wrong of him again in my life.

:eek:

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by Safetyin#
Its also expanding rapidly in Asia............How do you explain that one Brandnew, most of Asia is nolonger in a third world state?
however the concentration of the AIDS virus is in the poor, overpopulated cities. And I would like to you to give me a link supporting that white English male claim. And jesus, calm down man.

[Matthew]

Originally posted by WithStamin
What does everyone think about Bush's plan to send $15 billion to Africa to fight AIDS?

Personally, I think it's a betrayal to his conservative party and a huge waste of money in a budget that's already in trouble. You can't have you cake (tax cuts) and eat it too.

Wait a minute. $680 billion to attack and rebuild Iraq AND a $735 billion (finally scaled down to $350 billion) tax cut isnt having your cake and eating it too?

Over 85% of all AIDS victims that die are in Africa. That is a huge amount of people dying. I do believe that Europe ought to take a larger hand in aiding the Africans as the majority of their problems can be linked to European colonialization. But as they seem to be totally irresponsible, I guess the burden falls on us. Honest;y, how can we call ourselves "the last superpower" and "the leader of the free world" and then turn our back on the world?

[Matthew]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
however the concentration of the AIDS virus is in the poor, overpopulated cities. And I would like to you to give me a link supporting that white English male claim. And jesus, calm down man.

Why? You gave no link to your "Africans raping monkies" claim. Talk about evidence from your ass. If you dont give proof why should she?

And I love they way you want everyone to "Calm down" when your arguments get ripped up.

Also, condoms dont guarantee a 100% chance of stopping STD transfer, and much of the excessive sex in Africa is from cultural traditions.

And your argument about supporting Bush in Africa but not Iraq is non-unique, because you support Iraq but not Africa. Also, the Iraqi situation was a VIOLENT MILITARY CONFLICT, and is in no way on the same level as HUMANITARIAN AID. Idiot.

[WithStamin]

Why? You gave no link to your "Africans raping monkies" claim. Talk about evidence from your ass. If you dont give proof why should she? You're right, people are thinking now that it was bush meat from monkeys that first spread AIDS to humans.Also, condoms dont guarantee a 100% chance of stopping STD transfer, and much of the excessive sex in Africa is from cultural traditions. Too bad for them then :rolleyes: If they can't control themselves, they pay the price. Not our problem. The best we can do it let them know the risks and hope they make the right decision.

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
however the concentration of the AIDS virus is in the poor, overpopulated cities. And I would like to you to give me a link supporting that white English male claim. And jesus, calm down man.

I guess i miss worded that, the first REPORTED case of aids, was from a white male in england, but that doesn't mean that he was the first to have it.

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by ScreamoEMOBoy

Also, condoms dont guarantee a 100% chance of stopping STD transfer, and much of the excessive sex in Africa is from cultural traditions.



Yep. the aids virus is small then the legally allowed imperfection holes in condoms.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by Safetyin#
I guess i miss worded that, the first REPORTED case of aids, was from a white male in england, but that doesn't mean that he was the first to have it.
Exactly! Do you think some African villager is going to report a case of AIDS? Do you even think they know there was anything wrong? No. Of course the first reported case is going to be from a developed nation. That is like saying that the first earthquake happened solely after the richter scale was created.

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
Exactly! Do you think some African villager is going to report a case of AIDS? Do you even think they know there was anything wrong? No. Of course the first reported case is going to be from a developed nation. That is like saying that the first earthquake happened solely after the richter scale was created.

But its kind of funny that for thousands of years people lived in africa with no problems, then starting in the 1900's colonial Europe came in and started abusing the resources and destroying the rainforest and its speices, and all of a sudden AIDS!

Also cultures through out there histories speak or write about natural disaters (pompi) and disease (black death). But yet none of the african cultures, before the 1900 and the white man, have tales where about 1/4 of there populations dies all of a sudden.

[evil zach]

Hell, there are afircan cultures in hich the word "disease" didn't even exist before they came in contact with europeans

[BrandNewRock05]

again, europe. not the us. why sould the us fork out money that will just prolong people's suffering

[evil zach]

becuase they can afford to.

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
again, europe. not the us. why sould the us fork out money that will just prolong people's suffering

Because Europes already shown that they dont care about human suffering!

Also how is 1, trying to cure it, 2. spreading awareness of it, prolonging there suffering?

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by evil zach
becuase they can afford to.
so? just because you can afford it doesnt mean you have to buy it man. the us has its own problems, i would be happy to help out africa once the US's problems are all solved. because they can afford it, that is one dumb reason. Why should we hand them money that they didnt earn, when we need the money here in our own country. Shit bricks, our schools are going down the shitter, unemployment is sky high and we do have AIDS in the US as well.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by Safetyin#
Because Europes already shown that they dont care about human suffering!

Also how is 1, trying to cure it, 2. spreading awareness of it, prolonging there suffering?
because they are not only trying to cure (which is IMPOSSIBLE. NEVER has a virus been cured, yes i know there is a vaccination, but that is miles away) and not only spreading awareness (which is pointless, if you dont have an audience that listens to you, why talk?), they are also handing out drugs to those with AIDS already. Pointless waste of money. They are gonna die of AIDS, and thats the harsh truth. There is no cure, we cannot help them, why extend their painful, horrible life if there is no light at the end of the tunnel?

[Safetyin#]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
yes i know there is a vaccination, but that is miles away)

Why is it miles away? maybe cause of people like you?

[BrandNewRock05]

i would love there to be a vaccination, but we have poured tons of money over the past 15-20 years on this subject and learned nothing except that abstinance is the only really way that is 100% to protect you from AIDS, and not to drink breast milk from an AIDS plauged mother or get any blood from AIDS victims on you. I think we figured that out from the get go, so where has all of this money been spent? I see no progress.