Sampled Drums

[apsterling]

I've noticed recently that a solid portion of records released past about 2005 use sampled drums in replacement of fluid real-life recordings from drummers. I realize that mic'ing a kit is a pain in a studio, and it takes a while, and there's phase cancellation to deal with, and that the audio may not be of absolutely stellar quality, but I think the extra life it lends to the recording gives that back in more ways than one.

That all said, I've recently used samples in demoing and recording with my band on our own recordings, because we simply don't have the gear to record a drumset and get a great sounding mix- but making samples of all the drums and cymbals was a one-time investment of a crapload of time, and now I can get recordings that sound great even on their own. (Though the hi-hats come out a bit robot like, even with a lot of work towards humanization).

So my question for you, especially drummers and people who engineer or mix for their band or other bands, is:
Are sampled drums and drum replacements a necessary evil, or is it just laziness on the part of people who mix the bands, and is it "okay" to use them in a situation like mine?


Here's what I've been able to get out of what would have otherwise had to be a two condenser deal: http://www.box.net/shared/s0jgcl3aq1

[ninthandash]

sampled drums are great for prada-core

[remoteCONTROL]

i think you are talking about triggered drums, not necessarily sampled drums. if you want sampled drums, you can use Reason. I got a bunch of one-hits i've collected from studios that i've recorded at (including the ones used by four year strong, forgive durden, daphne loves derby and chiodos) that i use for demos. it still requires reverb and other basic effects to get the cymbals sounding more natural, but looking into that program might be something you could use for just getting drum ideas down. ive heard of doing a hybrid mix between reason tones wand actual live recorded cymbals and it sounded really well, but you have to do it correctly

[apsterling]

i think you are talking about triggered drums, not necessarily sampled drums. if you want sampled drums, you can use Reason. I got a bunch of one-hits i've collected from studios that i've recorded at (including the ones used by four year strong, forgive durden, daphne loves derby and chiodos) that i use for demos. it still requires reverb and other basic effects to get the cymbals sounding more natural, but looking into that program might be something you could use for just getting drum ideas down. ive heard of doing a hybrid mix between reason tones wand actual live recorded cymbals and it sounded really well, but you have to do it correctly

Well, sort of. I'm not doing any note replacing or triggering when I do it- I'm flat out throwing it into midi and programming my parts simply because we can't get a good recording. I did a ton of one-hits on my own, and aside from the cymbals, it's proving to work well. I've been using reverb and whatnot to blend it and aside from the occasional lack of working dynamic contrast in parts that get it when played on a real kit it really ends up working fine enough. I've got the samples saved as an EXS24 Sampler instrument in Logic, and that's where I've been working from, which is fine, but the cymbal samples were sorta mediocre, plus the way they play out isn't exactly smooth.

I just find it interesting how many records that were clearly of a substantial budget choose to do this (All Time Low's Nothing Personal, for example, doesn't even use the same kit sounds on different tracks) versus just putting the time and effort into getting a clean recording off of Mic'd drums.

[remoteCONTROL]

its not uncommon to use different drum tones for different songs tho. we used 3 different snares on our last record. nothing personal has dynamic to the songs (tho not much...) but they recorded the drums straight up and then used triggers to blend tones together. if you've got midi'd one-hits, and are able to record them in the first place, try recording all the drums except hi hats and ride (crashes are easy to manipulate) and then have the drummer listen to them through while playing just the hi hat parts, then put it all together. jason call used this technique when recording push push pull and the drummer just played on a pillow for the snare to keep the groove going. check out myspace.com/pushpushpull to hear how it turned out. totally fake one-hit drums, real cymbals

[apsterling]

In general I was actually considering doing that when we go to finish up the track I started this with.

I guess my big question is why in most cases, if the equipment is there and it's entirely possible to hear the real drummer play the real drums with a small sound quality sacrifice, and not just midi data being read into samples; are producers, bands and mixers choosing to use this. In cases like mine I think it's justifiable, and as a drummer I have less of a problem with my playing being clean in the mix versus a very low quality recording that wouldn't sound as good end result, even if it's not really me. I just think if the capability to have the real drummer play and have the sound be as good or better than what I'm getting, even, why they'd even bother taking that road, y'know?

[splitsecond]

We did not uses a single replacement or "programmed" drum on our record. Not one. I am really proud of that. We DID cut and paste some things and especially in one song that we kind of crafted in-studio, but every hit on the record was played by our drummer.

That being said, we may be using programming on some smaller stuff we do in the future, as we have access to a very very extensive drum library that most of the world doesnt even know exists. And don't ask me about it, because if I tell you I will have to kill you.

[apsterling]

That being said, we may be using programming on some smaller stuff we do in the future, as we have access to a very very extensive drum library that most of the world doesnt even know exists. And don't ask me about it, because if I tell you I will have to kill you.

That sounds like it could be quite an interesting story in the making.

[remoteCONTROL]

I've never heard of a producer at a studionusing this technique. It's mostly dobe by people who don't have the space or equipment. Nobody should be going to a producer that doesn't at least outsource this to a studio with adequate means of recording drums. Sure a lot of producers lay thick triggers on, but they're going to have live drums under that to work from

[splitsecond]

I've never heard of a producer at a studionusing this technique. It's mostly dobe by people who don't have the space or equipment. Nobody should be going to a producer that doesn't at least outsource this to a studio with adequate means of recording drums. Sure a lot of producers lay thick triggers on, but they're going to have live drums under that to work from

Any producers who are doing it are not telling anyone they are doing it, that is for sure.