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Caleb Cattivera
06/12/06, 01:34 PM
NBA Insider-June 12:Chad Ford Mock Draft V 2.0, Eurocamp, Jermanie O'Neal to Raptors


Chad Ford's Mock Draft, Version 2: Picks 1 to 30
By Chad Ford
ESPN Insider


We're only about two weeks from the NBA Draft and the consensus around the league is that no one's sure exactly what anyone is doing.

"You start right at the top with Toronto," one GM with a mid-first round pick told Insider. "They could go in a number of directions. There's trade talk and we're still evaluating players. We have so many different players ranked so close together, I think the draft will be more about need than anything this year."

So take what you're reading with a grain of salt. No one knows what these teams are doing, themselves included.

Still, there has been relatively little movement since the lottery. The Orlando predraft camp did little to shake things up in the first round, and we've yet to see any trades or major players withdraw from this year's draft.

So far, individual workouts and a few group workouts in Orlando have been the only things moving the meter.

Over the next week the Reebok Eurocamp, a number of individual workouts and the June 18 withdrawal deadline could still alter the face of the draft.

For now, here's our best stab, after talking to numerous NBA team sources, at how the draft might play out on June 28:


CHAD FORD'S MOCK DRAFT
PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS

Toronto
Andrea Bargnani Position: PF
Height: 7-0
Weight: 225
Age: 20
Country: Italy

The skinny: The Raptors will have all six of the top prospects in for individual workouts over the course of the next two weeks. GM Bryan Colangelo continues to assert that the Raptors haven't made up their mind about who they'll draft if they keep No. 1. Many around the league expect the Raptors to trade down or out of the draft.

If they do keep the pick, all signs still point to Bargnani being the pick. As we've written previously, Colangelo is a fan (in fact he's the only GM in the league here in Italy for the Reebok Eurocamp). Bargnani is not a perfect fit in Toronto (none of the top six players are), but he would give the Raptors some flexibility to make trades.



Chicago
(via New York)
Tyrus Thomas Position: PF
Height: 6-9
Weight: 229
Age: 19
School: LSU

The skinny: I've championed LaMarcus Aldridge all year, but after watching Thomas work out, I can see why the Bulls would want him. He's got the physical and mental toughness that GM John Paxson and head coach Scott Skiles demand. Given Thomas' physical gifts and motor, it's probably just a question of when, not if, he develops.

Thomas' most serious competition for the No. 2 spot is Washington's Brandon Roy. The Bulls want to add size to their backcourt and think another big might be available at No. 16. From what I'm told they're leaning toward Thomas, but it's a close call.



Charlotte
Rudy Gay Position: SF
Height: 6-9
Weight: 222
Age: 19
School: UConn

The skinny: The Bobcats' biggest need is a swingman who can shoot the rock.

GM Bernie Bickerstaff has worked out UConn's Rudy Gay and Gonzaga's Adam Morrison and was impressed with both. Gay has more long-term potential. Morrison is more polished and ready to contribute now.

I think Bickerstaff prefers Gay. But he could get overruled by upper management. Ticket sales have been awful, and the team needs someone to create excitement. Adding Morrison, who is the most recognizable player in the draft, could help out at the box office and guarantee an appearance or two on national TV.



Portland

Adam Morrison Position: SF
Height: 6-8
Weight: 205
Age: 21
School: Gonzaga


The skinny: The Blazers could go in a lot of directions here. Their only big need is in the middle, but none of the players in the draft, with the exception of Patrick O'Bryant, really fill it. LaMarcus Aldridge might not be bad in the middle when paired with Zach Randolph.

Head coach Nate McMillan is a big Brandon Roy fan.

Much of the Blazers staff is high on Bargnani (who might not be available). But if the draft plays out the way we think it will, look for Morrison to be the pick.

Darius Miles' days in Portland are numbered and management has to begin finding ways of exciting Portland fans again. For those two reasons, Morrison might be a good fit.




Atlanta
LaMarcus Aldridge Position: PF
Height: 6-10
Weight: 240
Age: 20
School: Texas

The skinny:The Hawks are the most difficult team in the league to get a read on. They've had none of the top players in for workouts, and, given the instability of the draft at the top, they could face a number of different scenarios.

The buzz around Orlando on Friday was that the Hawks had cut a deal with Shelden Williams. However, that makes almost no sense. Why cut a deal with a guy this early in the draft, especially one who has a 99.9 percent probability of being there at No. 5? UConn's Marcus Williams, Kentucky's Rajon Rondo, Villanova's Randy Foye and Washington's Brandon Roy are all possibilities here.

But I think Atlanta will go with Aldridge. He would be the best player on the board, has great size and could help fill a need, swinging from the four to the five.




Minnesota
Marcus Williams Position: PG
Height: 6-3
Weight: 205
Age: 20
School: UConn

The skinny: The Wolves are hoping that Gay, Aldridge or Thomas slips to them here.

The Wolves need a true point guard and Williams is ready to come in and contribute immediately. If the Wolves can get over the off-court issues in his past, he could be a great fit.

They might also be interested in Foye if they believe he can play the point, or Rondo if the Wolves decide they want to go up-tempo and are willing to wait a little bit. O'Bryant fills a need, though I'm told the Wolves aren't as high on him as some teams are.



Boston
Brandon Roy Position: SG
Height: 6-5
Weight: 195
Age: 21
School: Washington

The skinny: A number of teams are trying to move up in the draft to get Roy. If Roy's available at No. 7, you can expect the Magic, Jazz, Bulls and Pacers to all make a serious pitch.

That should be fine with Danny Ainge. Roy isn't a real need in Boston and Ainge isn't in love with anyone here in the first place.

If Roy is off the board, or the Celtics decide to keep the pick, I still believe Rondo could be the choice. Williams, O'Bryant, Redick and Foye could also be in the mix here.



Houston
J.J. Redick Position: SG
Height: 6-4
Weight: 190
Age: 21
School: Duke

The skinny: A great workout for Redick in Houston probably brought him one step closer to becoming a Rocket. The Rockets have a number of needs, but the biggest is two guard.

This is awfully high for Redick, but he should be a good fit in Houston. With Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady facing constant double teams, the Rockets need someone who can make them pay from the 3-point line.

The team also needs help at the point and up front, so players like UConn's Marcus Williams and Bradley's Patrick O'Bryant are options.



Golden State
Patrick O'Bryant Position: C
Height: 7-0
Weight: 250
Age: 19
School: Bradley

The skinny: The Warriors, while not a playoff team yet, don't have any glaring needs.


With Baron Davis' health always in question, having a big-time experienced combo guard like Foye or an up-and-coming point guard like Rajon Rondo could be very welcome.


But after watching what O'Bryant this week, I can't believe he'll slip any further than this in the draft. His combination of size and athleticism will be too much to pass on.



Seattle
Shelden Williams Position: PF
Height: 6-9
Weight: 250
Age: 22
School: Duke

The skinny: The Sonics need defense and Williams would provide that. He's one of the best rebounders and shot blockers in the draft. With Reggie Evans gone and Chris Wilcox hitting free agency, adding a big, physical player like Williams is a good insurance policy.

This also could be where Foye lands. The Sonics do have three good backcourt players, but Foye would give them a physical defender and a guy who could swing between two positions.



Orlando
Ronnie Brewer Position: SG
Height: 6-7
Weight: 220
Age: 21
School: Arkansas

The skinny: The Magic have had their eye on Roy and Redick. If both are gone, then the team must move on to Plan B, finding a big guard to pair in the backcourt with point guard Jameer Nelson. Brewer is a good fit. He can swing to the point, plays aggressive defense and knows how to get to the basket.


New Orleans/
Oklahoma City
Cedric Simmons Position: PF
Height: 6-9
Weight: 235
Age: 20
School: NC State

The skinny: After giving up Jamaal Magloire and losing Chris Andersen to a drug suspension, the Hornets lack an athletic defensive presence who can rebound and block shots. They're hoping O'Bryant, the best center in the draft, is still on the board. Don't be surprised if they try to package their two first-round picks to move up to get O'Bryant.

However, if they're stuck at No. 12, Simmons or UConn's Hilton Armstrong could be the man. Simmons is very raw, but has the size and athleticism to be a significant presence in the paint down the road.



Philadelphia
Randy Foye Position: SG
Height: 6-4
Weight: 205
Age: 22
School: Villanova

The skinny: The Sixers have a lot of needs right now. They need a point guard so that they can move Allen Iverson back to the two where he belongs. They also need to begin developing a power forward who can take over when Chris Webber retires or breaks down.

Cedric Simmons and Shelden Williams would both be obvious fits here. The Sixers could also reach a little here to take a player like Hilton Armstrong or Alexander Johnson. More likely they'll try to fill a hole in the backcourt with John Salmons heading into free agency. So who would they take, Foye or Rondo? Rondo is more a pure point, but Foye's versatility and readiness to play now make him the pick.



Utah
Mouhamed Saer Sene Position: C
Height: 7-0
Weight: 232
Age: 20
Country: Senegal

The skinny: The Jazz's first priority is finding a scoring two guard. Roy, Foye and Redick are at the top of the list, but if they're off the board, the Jazz will look to their other need at the center position. Greg Ostertag is retiring and no one believes that recently acquired Rafael Araujo is the long-term answer. The team could use an athletic shot blocker to help out Mehmet Okur and Carlos Boozer in the paint.

Will it be Armstrong or Sene? Armstrong is a late bloomer who is still finding his game, but he does have the size, athleticism and shot blocking to be a legit NBA center. However, Sene is bigger and more physical and has a much larger upside. Karl Malone loved him when he came in for a workout. He's a project, but the Jazz might be ready to take a chance.



NO/OC Hornets
(via Milwaukee)
Rodney Carney Position: SF
Height: 6-7
Weight: 205
Age: 22
School: Memphis

The skinny: The Hornets will be psyched if Carney is still on the board here. The team could use an athletic, sweet-shooting swingman and Carney has the experience to step right in and compete right away. Questions about Carney's toughness and desire are the only reasons he might slip this far.

If Carney is off the board, Thabo Sefolosha and Marcus Vinicius are possibilities.



Chicago
Thabo Sefolosha Position: SF
Height: 6-6
Weight: 215
Age: 22
Country: Switzerland

The skinny: If the Bulls go for a frontcourt player with pick No. 2, look for them to try to add a big two guard to fill their need in the backcourt. Brewer and Carney would be likely targets if they're still on the board. If they're not, the Bulls could turn to Sefolosha. He's long, athletic and experienced, and he has a balanced, all-around game.

Temple's Mardy Collins is another option here.

Or, if the Bulls decide to go for a player like Roy at the top, then an athletic forward like Alexander Johnson could be the guy.


Indiana
Hilton Armstrong Position: C
Height: 6-11
Weight: 235
Age: 21
School: UConn

The skinny: The Pacers have a need for backups in both the frontcourt and the backcourt. Armstrong is big and athletic and can block shots and rebound. He's been a late bloomer at UConn, but has worked out well enough to warrant a selection this high. With Jermaine O'Neal constantly nursing injuries, and with Scot Pollard leaving via free agency, finding someone to replace O'Neal is essential.

Another option here is Alexander Johnson, whom the Pacers are very high on. If they decide instead to look for help in the backcourt, Shannon Brown and Quincy Douby make some sense.



Washington
Rajon Rondo Position: PG
Height: 6-2
Weight: 171
Age: 20
School: Kentucky

The skinny: Rondo is a steal for the Wizards if they can get him. Some GMs have Rondo ranked as the top point guard in the draft. He could go as high as No. 5 (Atlanta), No. 7 (Boston) or No. 13 (Philly). Rondo should be excellent in Eddie Jordan's up-tempo offense and allow Gilbert Arenas to swing to the two at times.


Sacramento
Sergio Rodriguez Position: PG
Height: 6-3
Weight: 170
Age: 19
Country: Spain

The skinny: Sacramento drafted Jason "White Chocolate" Williams and might take his Spanish clone, Sergio "Spanish Chocolate" Rodriguez. The Kings desperately need some help behind Mike Bibby. Rodriguez got off to a slow start early in the year because of injuries, but has looked like his scintillating self in the playoffs. He is quick, can run a team and can do it with flair. Another year in Spain and he'd have a chance at becoming a lottery pick, so this is a good get.


New York
(via Denver)
Shawne Williams Position: SF
Height: 6-9
Weight: 225
Age: 20
School: Memphis

The skinny: Jalen Rose will be gone soon and Knicks fans are still mourning the giveaway of Trevor Ariza at the deadline. Williams is a guy Knicks president Isiah Thomas can love. He is long and athletic, plays multiple positions and can shoot. He really needs another year of school, but playing for the Knicks is like playing for the JV at this point anyway. Brazil's Marcus Vinicius is another option here. Isiah is a fan.


Phoenix
(via L.A. Lakers)
Olexsiy Pecherov Position: PF
Height: 6-11
Weight: 222
Age: 21
Country: Ukraine

The skinny: Coach Mike D'Antoni loves small ball, but that doesn't mean he'll pass on a talented big man. The team is hoping that either Armstrong or Sene falls to them. However, if they are both off the board, Pecherov is a good fit. He is big and athletic, can shoot the 3 and has developed into an excellent rebounder in France this season. Think of a tougher version of Keith Van Horn.

Alexander Johnson is also an option here. And the Suns like point guard Sergio Rodriguez as well.



New Jersey
(via L.A. Clippers)
Kyle Lowry Position: PG
Height: 6-0
Weight: 185
Age: 20
School: Villanova

The skinny: The Nets desperately need to upgrade their bench, both in the frontcourt and in the backcourt. Lowry is a super-athletic, scrappy point guard who could help the Nets restore the frantic pace they like to play. He's not the best shooter in the world, but he does just about everything else well. With another year in college, he might be a lottery pick. That makes him a steal at No. 22.


New Jersey
Alexander Johnson Position: PF
Height: 6-10
Weight: 230
Age: 23
School: FSU

The skinny: Johnson, maybe the most athletic big man in the draft, is one of my draft sleepers this year. He has a 40-inch vertical leap, runs the floor well and plays tough. While scouts wish he were a little taller (he's 6-9 in shoes) and had a little longer reach, his toughness and explosive athleticism remind some scouts of Kenyon Martin. The Nets need to get more athletic and physical up front, and Johnson, though a gamble, just might deliver.


Memphis
Shannon Brown Position: SG
Height: 6-3
Weight: 190
Age: 20
School: Mich St

The skinny: The Grizzlies have been searching for a center ever since Bryant Reeves retired. With Lorenzen Wright hitting free agency this summer, the need has never been greater. However, with O'Bryant, Armstrong and Sene off the board, there won't be many options left. Aaron Gray is a possibility, but after a so-so workout in Orlando, he may be heading back to Pittsburgh.

If they can't find anyone for the frontcourt, they'd be smart to grab Brown. The Grizzlies need to add toughness in the backcourt as well as find someone who can break down defenses and get to the rim.



Cleveland
Jordan Farmar Position: PG
Height: 6-2
Weight: 180
Age: 19
School: UCLA

The skinny: Danny Ferry will be doing backflips if Farmar is still on the board when they pick. Eric Snow peaked years ago and it looks like Damon Jones is on the down slope of his career, too. There's nothing flashy about Farmar's game, but next to Marcus Williams, he's the best pure point guard in the draft. The biggest question about Farmar: Will he stay in the draft? After an average performance at the Orlando predraft camp, the whispers are that he's leaning toward returning to UCLA.


L.A. Lakers
Guillermo Diaz Position: SG
Height: 6-3
Weight: 190
Age: 20
School: Miami

The skinny: The Lakers don't need pure point guards in the triangle, so Diaz should be a good fit. He is tough and super-athletic, and he's improved his stroke dramatically. Diaz would give Phil Jackson another backcourt scoring option besides you-know-who.


Phoenix
Quincy Douby Position: SG
Height: 6-3
Weight: 175
Age: 22
School: Rutgers

The skinny: Douby should thrive in the Suns' small-ball system. He plays multiple positions, is great from long range and knows how to light up the scoreboard. With Leandro Barbosa just one year from free agency (and with the Suns looking pretty capped out), Douby could be a worthy replacement. Michigan State's Maurice Ager and Texas' Daniel Gibson are also good options here.


Dallas
Marcus Vinicius Position: SF
Height: 6-9
Weight: 235
Age: 21
Country: Brazil

The skinny: The Brazilian big man can play three positions and has some saying he could go as high as No. 15 to the Hornets. He's a little bit of a project, but he has all the physical tools and a good jump shot. The Mavs had made tough, versatile, athletic wing players in vogue and have a chance to pick up another one.


New York
(via San Antonio)
Josh Boone Position: C
Height: 6-10
Weight: 237
Age: 21
School: UConn

The skinny: The rumor swirling around Orlando was that the Knicks cut a deal to draft Boone here, prompting him to stay in the draft. Boone has all the raw tools to be a steal here. He is long and athletic and has a great motor when he gets involved in the game. But he disappears for long stretches and seems, at times, to be disinterested in the game, so his stock isn't where it could be. But at this point in the draft, what's to lose?


Portland
(via Detroit)
Aaron Gray Position: C
Height: 7-0
Weight: 270
Age: 21
School: Pittsburgh

The skinny: The Blazers could be losing Joel Przybilla in the middle and they'll need all the help they can get. Gray is huge and physical and he can rebound. He won't be a star, but he'll be a serviceable center in the league.



Other potential first rounders: Maurice Ager, Mardy Collins, Leon Powe, Paul Davis, Richard Roby, Daniel Gibson, Rudy Fernandez, James Augustine, James White, Darius Washington, Will Blalock, Taj Gray, Dee Brown, Paul Millsap and Yotam Halperin.





Eurocamp getting better each year
By Fran Fraschilla


This is the third year I've been a part of the Reebok Eurocamp, an NBA evaluation camp for some of Europe's best young players.

Held in Treviso, Italy, home of the Benetton company, this camp invites 48 of the best young players in Europe.

It's a little different than the NBA predraft camp in Orlando. While there are a number of draft-eligible players and early-entry prospects, it also has a number of talented, young high school- and college freshman-aged players who are now on many NBA teams' radars.

The coaching staff consists mainly of NBA coaches and scouts as well as coaches from Europe's top professional clubs. The opportunity for me to be a part of the staff gives me a unique perspective to be able to compare college basketball with the international game; it certainly helps me come the night of the draft each year in late June.

Among the NBA luminaries here observing the camp are L.A. Clippers coach Mike Dunleavy, the Houston Rockets' future general manager, Daryl Morey, and the Toronto Raptors' new general manager, Bryan Colangelo, who enjoys the luxury of having the top pick in this year's draft.

The timing is good for NBA teams to be here, because the Italian League finals start Wednesday with Benetton Treviso taking on Climamio Bologna. Scouts can get another first-hand look at potential No. 1 pick Andrea Bargnani of Benetton.


Another likely first-round pick in this year's draft is 6-9 Brazilian small forward Marcus Vinicius, who has worked out for a number of NBA teams prior to the camp in half-court situations. This camp will allow him to show his open-court skills in five-on-five situations. He's being coached by one of the NBA's top international scouts in Tony Ronzone of the Detroit Pistons.

Two intriguing Israeli players -- an Israeli has never been selected in the NBA's first round -- are 6-4 guard Yotam Halperin and 6-8 small forward Lior Eliyahu.

Another interesting prospect is Ali Traore, a 6-9 power forward from France by way of Mali. Traore started his career at the College of Southern Idaho, a junior college, but he moved on to accept a contract to play at Roanne in the French Pro A League.

Both Traore and Eliyahu are looking for a first-round commitment from NBA teams before June 18 or they will withdraw from the draft and continue their professional careers in Europe.

Among the bright young players in the camp are 6-10 English forward Joel Freeland, 5-10 point guard Rudy Mbemba from Sweden and Dilmantas Bilyas, a 6-9 Lithuanian player who reminds me of Tayshaun Prince of the Pistons.

The beauty of NBA teams evaluating the young players in this environment is that they can follow their progression more closely over the next couple of years. With the amount of resources NBA teams are pouring into international scouting, it's less and less likely that you will see draft busts like Nikoloz Tskitishvili, who was taken with the fifth overall pick in 2002 by the Denver Nuggets.

The players and coaches are housed together at La Ghirada, Benetton's sprawling sports complex. I have found there is a family atmosphere at the camp because each of these young men shares a dream of playing in the NBA. It manifests itself daily as the players look to impress the NBA contingent on hand. There are very few entourages or AAU-type coaches hanging around. While these players are young professionals, there is still an innocence that goes hand-in-hand with their dreams.

This is a perfect place for me to be in the spring -- basketball in Italy. More to come after Monday's session.




NBA Rumor Central: Farmar Will Remain In Draft
Monday, June 12


NBA Draft

Farmar Will Remain In Draft
Jun 12 - A source close to Jordan Farmar told the Los Angeles Times Sunday that he expects the UCLA sophomore to remain in the NBA draft and forgo his remaining college eligibility.


Jermaine O'Neal
Pacers


Jermaine On The Block?
Jun 12 - According to the Boston Herald on Sunday, the hottest rumor at the NBA pre-draft camp last week had Indiana talking to Toronto about trading Jermaine O'Neal to the Raptors for some sort of package that would include the No. 1 pick.
The newspaper also reported that Indiana may also be talking with the Timberwolves about a Jamaal Tinsley-for-Ricky Davis swap.



Milwaukee

Bucks Eye Carney?
Jun 12 - The Racine Journal Times reports there is some scuttlebutt that if the Bucks could obtain a mid first-round pick for guard Mo Williams they'd use the pick possibly on Memphis forward, Rodney Carney, if he's available.
"Yeah, I heard that," Carney said. "I'm not sure who told me that, but I remember someone telling me that."

LeftWideOpen
06/12/06, 01:37 PM
i love this stuff, thanks caleb.

LeftWideOpen
06/12/06, 01:40 PM
for the record, chad ford's draft looks pretty terrible.

There's no way Foye slips that far and I've heard a lot of reports that say Marcus Williams stock is fading fast. I'd be really surprised to see Williams off the board before Foye, especially as soon as Ford has here.

I also can't see Gay going #3 while Roy goes #7. We'll see though.

Caleb Cattivera
06/12/06, 01:46 PM
i love this stuff, thanks caleb.

no prob dude.

as for the mock draft, i think this will change weekly until the day of the draft. with trades, team needs, etc.

the hawks NEEEEED a poing guard. tyronn lue doesnt cut it. there's been rumors floating around here that we were going to trade for iverson, which seems to have dissolved...thank god. honestly, id love to have brevin knight running our offense.

LeftWideOpen
06/12/06, 01:51 PM
no prob dude.

as for the mock draft, i think this will change weekly until the day of the draft. with trades, team needs, etc.

the hawks NEEEEED a poing guard. tyronn lue doesnt cut it. there's been rumors floating around here that we were going to trade for iverson, which seems to have dissolved...thank god. honestly, id love to have brevin knight running our offense.

yeah, i mean there's foye (who isnt a pure PG) and Williams, but I think Atlanta would be much better off with a veteran. They don't need to deal with anymore growing pains.

I'm holding out hope the Celts will swing something with Indiana for O'Neal, but I realize the chances of that are slim. If we stay put at #7, I hope to see Foye get selected (or Roy if he slips). Delonte can man the point while Foye learns the ropes.

Caleb Cattivera
06/12/06, 01:55 PM
yeah, i mean there's foye (who isnt a pure PG) and Williams, but I think Atlanta would be much better off with a veteran. They don't need to deal with anymore growing pains.

I'm holding out hope the Celts will swing something with Indiana for O'Neal, but I realize the chances of that are slim. If we stay put at #7, I hope to see Foye get selected (or Roy if he slips). Delonte can man the point while Foye learns the ropes.

i read the other day that the celtics are in the market for a pg and hoping to move delonte to the sg. i became a delonte fan last season though, mikeford really got me liking him...speaking of...what happened to that doug dude.

FondestMemory
06/12/06, 02:09 PM
i really don't see that italian going first overall. it'd be a waste of a pick. i think anybody picking him before 4 is getting screwed.

that's just me though. and i still think indiana needs to give jo one more year.

Caleb Cattivera
06/12/06, 02:21 PM
i really don't see that italian going first overall. it'd be a waste of a pick. i think anybody picking him before 4 is getting screwed.

that's just me though. and i still think indiana needs to give jo one more year.

why do you think it's a waste?

as for JO he's had six seasons...he's not able to be a leader. it's time for him to go elsewhere.

FondestMemory
06/12/06, 02:36 PM
why do you think it's a waste?

as for JO he's had six seasons...he's not able to be a leader. it's time for him to go elsewhere.

i just think that, if toronto wanted him so bad, they could trade out of one and as low as four and he'd still be there.

that's it. i'm not saying he'll be a flop. i just think nobody but toronto would take him any higher than 4 and that they could get some extra in return by trading down.

and for jo, we're just gonna disagree. he's only had two seasons where it's his team. one was fucked up by the brawl. the other was hurt by injuries and artest again. i say one more season to see what he's really made of.

xbrokendownx
06/12/06, 02:49 PM
hahahaha ford is terrrible


foye to PHILLY? right...no way in HELL he slips that far

Brownpants06
06/12/06, 02:51 PM
thanks. I bet JO would be the new Vince Carter in Toronto, I doubt he would want to play here at all.

Drew Beringer
06/12/06, 02:53 PM
If JO gets traded, I am going to fuckin burn Conseco to the ground with Larry Bird inside. FUCK!

Drew Beringer
06/12/06, 02:53 PM
But I'll take Davis for Tinsley. As long as they get rid of Jackson. Jackson and Davis on the same team = disaster.

Caleb Cattivera
06/12/06, 02:55 PM
i just think that, if toronto wanted him so bad, they could trade out of one and as low as four and he'd still be there.

that's it. i'm not saying he'll be a flop. i just think nobody but toronto would take him any higher than 4 and that they could get some extra in return by trading down.

and for jo, we're just gonna disagree. he's only had two seasons where it's his team. one was fucked up by the brawl. the other was hurt by injuries and artest again. i say one more season to see what he's really made of.

yeah, but even when jo's teammates questioned his leadership...that's when you know it's your time to go, all last season they questioned him. he shouldve been the leader and he failed to step up. jo will be gone, and indiana can get a fresh start.

Caleb Cattivera
06/12/06, 02:56 PM
But I'll take Davis for Tinsley. As long as they get rid of Jackson. Jackson and Davis on the same team = disaster.

hahaha you're so right...but if they both were there, id vote for bring back artest, getting isiah rider on the court, and dennis rodman for good measure.

Drew Beringer
06/12/06, 02:58 PM
yeah, but even when jo's teammates questioned his leadership...that's when you know it's your time to go, all last season they questioned him. he shouldve been the leader and he failed to step up. jo will be gone, and indiana can get a fresh start.
JO had fuckin lame teammates. I'm taking whatever Austin Croshere says with a grain of salt. When healthy, JO is one of the elite players in the league, they get rid of him and it's just gonna bite them in the ass.

Caleb Cattivera
06/12/06, 03:05 PM
JO had fuckin lame teammates. I'm taking whatever Austin Croshere says with a grain of salt. When healthy, JO is one of the elite players in the league, they get rid of him and it's just gonna bite them in the ass.

he's gone. i guarantee it, with all the speculation that's been going on about this for a year, he'll be gone...you should be happy, you should be able to get somehting decent in return.

Drew Beringer
06/12/06, 03:07 PM
he's gone. i guarantee it, with all the speculation that's been going on about this for a year, he'll be gone...you should be happy, you should be able to get somehting decent in return.
Doubt it.

Caleb Cattivera
06/12/06, 03:20 PM
Doubt it.

i dont doubt it. where did the pacers finish this season? bird's a winner, and wants a winning team, and with JO at the head, they wont get past the second round. end of story.

bigmike
06/12/06, 03:21 PM
All this did was make me realize just how bad Michigan State will suck now that Shannon Brown has left early. I don't blame him but now we fucking replace the soft pussy Paul Davis with an equally big, less skilled, less athletic white big man named fucking Goran Sutan and we've got the kid who looks like a penis Drew Neitzel running the point and throwing the ball to fucking ann arbor because he's a terrible passer. Ugh. this will be such a long, long season.

I'll have to watch more Western Michigan games to make up for the fact that the spartans will blow and blow hard.

Drew Beringer
06/12/06, 03:25 PM
i dont doubt it. where did the pacers finish this season? bird's a winner, and wants a winning team, and with JO at the head, they wont get past the second round. end of story.
Larry Bird is not a good GM though. It's only gonna be a good trade if they get KG haha.

Drew Beringer
06/12/06, 03:27 PM
Maybe if Bird would have put some fuckin chemistry around JO then it would have been better, but he didn't.

StandMyBrothers
06/12/06, 03:41 PM
Doubt it.
I'm with you on that...also I doubt KG will get traded too, whoever thinks that is pretty ridicolous.

Drew Beringer
06/12/06, 03:42 PM
People need to stop blaming JO and start blaming the front office, they are just as much to blame, if not more.

bigmike
06/12/06, 03:47 PM
Drew, if larry bird is such a bad GM why does that guarantee JO staying around? Being a bad Gm, doesn't that make you more prone to making stupid trades a la Zeke in NY? I wouldn't be shocked/sad to see him leave Indy so they aren't much of a threat next year.

FondestMemory
06/12/06, 03:50 PM
I'm with you on that...also I doubt KG will get traded too, whoever thinks that is pretty ridicolous.

no, i think kg will be gone. that's been two seasons coming, it's time for them to split ways.

so i'm ridiculous.

Caleb Cattivera
06/12/06, 04:09 PM
Larry Bird is not a good GM though. It's only gonna be a good trade if they get KG haha.

what has he done to not make him a good gm? i'd be willing to bet the good outweighs the bad.

Drew Beringer
06/12/06, 04:17 PM
what has he done to not make him a good gm? i'd be willing to bet the good outweighs the bad.
I can't think of a lot of good, maybe getting rid of Isiah was good. But trading Al Harrington for Jackson was horrible. I dunno, but saying he is a winner doesn't mean he'll make a good team. Hell, Isiah was a winner and look what he has done with the Knicks.

Drew Beringer
06/12/06, 04:18 PM
Drew, if larry bird is such a bad GM why does that guarantee JO staying around? Being a bad Gm, doesn't that make you more prone to making stupid trades a la Zeke in NY? I wouldn't be shocked/sad to see him leave Indy so they aren't much of a threat next year.
I never said it would guarantee JO to stay around. I just said that Bird isn't the best GM and that I'll be super pissed if JO is traded.

bigmike
06/12/06, 04:43 PM
I never said it would guarantee JO to stay around. I just said that Bird isn't the best GM and that I'll be super pissed if JO is traded.
call me cynical but because bird is a bad GM, i'd be worried about JO getting traded.

xearlynovemberx
06/12/06, 05:09 PM
knicks will prob trade both the first round picks for al fucking harrington or something

xearlynovemberx
06/12/06, 05:09 PM
btw i dont mind if the knicks draft josh boone

Split2nd
06/12/06, 06:22 PM
Wow, I don't want to think how good the Raptors front court would be with Bosh/JO.

Caleb Cattivera
06/12/06, 06:24 PM
Wow, I don't want to think how good the Raptors front court would be with Bosh/JO.

scarrrry.

Goodbye Forever
06/12/06, 10:08 PM
If Douby ends up on the Suns, that would be a perfect fit.

xbrokendownx
06/12/06, 10:45 PM
btw i dont mind if the knicks draft josh boone






omg noooooo joshn boone is terrible

Goodbye Forever
06/12/06, 10:49 PM
btw i dont mind if the knicks draft josh boone

John Boone is a stiff, he'd be perfect on the Knicks.