View Full Version : US Politicians/Christian Fundamentalists (The Family) help fund law for killing gays
in Uganda.
http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/component/content/article/106-myblog/2176-all-in-the-family-interview-reveals-american-influence-behind-anti-gay-act
In summary, The Family has been funding to push the law in uganda that would give homosexuals the death penalty.
You know, I try to keep an open mind about christians and their pure hate for homosexuality, but there is so much hypocrisy that its gotten to the point where I think all christians are stupid.
I bet god loves murder.
CChocobo
11/29/09, 11:12 PM
They're a bunch of lost souls. I have no pity for right wing neo-fascists. To be a good christian you have to hate homosexuality with a burning passion because it's against God's will! pfft. I hate fucking religion, personally. It's a tool used by leaders to indoctrinate and brainwash people who feel like they need to live for "more". How many people buy into it.. really now. Instead of working in solidarity with one another it divides people, just like politicians and this system we live, keeps us at each other's throats. To quote propagandhi "we live in a system that teaches us it's okay to succeed at the expense of others, and it's okay to profit off of someone else's misery".
squared82
11/30/09, 06:46 AM
I hate how my faith whose 2 most important tenets are to love God and to love each other has been associated so closely with hate and war.
konvalbr
11/30/09, 07:14 AM
that was the worst piece of "journalism" i've ever read.
runningfree1
11/30/09, 07:23 AM
that was the worst piece of "journalism" i've ever read.
agreed.
but still way fucked up.
the situation is retarded and hopefully will get fixed.
as far as christianity goes, i was raised in it. and the poster a few posts up got it right, you're supposed to love God and love others unconditionally. it doesn't matter if their gay/straight/bi/trans/etc.... whatever. just love them. after all, whether it's a sin or not, all sin is equal, so nobody should be judging anyone because we're all guilty of something.
june182
11/30/09, 08:36 AM
the situation is retarded and hopefully will get fixed.
as far as christianity goes, i was raised in it. and the poster a few posts up got it right, you're supposed to love God and love others unconditionally. it doesn't matter if their gay/straight/bi/trans/etc.... whatever. just love them. after all, whether it's a sin or not, all sin is equal, so nobody should be judging anyone because we're all guilty of something.
I agree with you 100%.
caveBEAR
11/30/09, 08:47 AM
the situation is retarded and hopefully will get fixed.
as far as christianity goes, i was raised in it. and the poster a few posts up got it right, you're supposed to love God and love others unconditionally. it doesn't matter if their gay/straight/bi/trans/etc.... whatever. just love them. after all, whether it's a sin or not, all sin is equal, so nobody should be judging anyone because we're all guilty of something.
...you were probably against the witch burnings, too. Thanks, Party Pooper Patti.
...you were probably against the witch burnings, too. Thanks, Party Pooper Patti.
lol, what?
um... yeah, i'm against killing people for no reason.
caveBEAR
11/30/09, 08:52 AM
lol, what?
um... yeah, i'm against killing people for no reason.
At first I was like :-| and then I was like :hitself:
i guess i just don't get it.
caveBEAR
11/30/09, 09:12 AM
i guess i just don't get it.
I wasn't being serious. You posted a very well thought out comment that showed the hypocrisy of the current situation, and I (jokingly) said, 'I bet you were against the witch burnings, too', as they were another hypocritical situation that religious folks had gotten themselves into. It wasn't meant to be taken seriously, which I thought wouldn't have to be spelled out. Maybe I lost something in the translation from my mind to internet.
I wasn't being serious. You posted a very well thought out comment that showed the hypocrisy of the current situation, and I (jokingly) said, 'I bet you were against the witch burnings, too', as they were another hypocritical situation that religious folks had gotten themselves into. It wasn't meant to be taken seriously, which I thought wouldn't have to be spelled out. Maybe I lost something in the translation from my mind to internet.
oh okay. yeah, you're right. it just flew over my head.
TheReckoner
11/30/09, 09:42 AM
oh okay. yeah, you're right. it just flew over my head.
Hey man you should check out Atlas Sound. Logos is kick ass.
TheReckoner
11/30/09, 09:45 AM
Haha I didnt even look at the name of the thread, and realized it was about killing gay people. and, me being gay, it kinda caught me off guard :-d
Hey man you should check out Atlas Sound. Logos is kick ass.
okay. i will. what do they sound like?
TheReckoner
11/30/09, 09:51 AM
Well, do you know the band Deerhunter? If yes, its the frontman of that band doing solo work. If not, they arent as poppy as neon indian and BMSR. Theyre pretty mellow. If you look up a song, either look up The Light That Failed, Walkabout (with Noah Lennox), or Quick Canal. Quick Canal has a guest female vocalist, so be aware that if you listen to that song first, the others will have different vocals. Shit, I dont really know how to specifically describe them. You'll have to find out for yourself. :-)
alright, i'll check them out and let you know what i think, thanks
SomethingClever
11/30/09, 10:23 AM
that was the worst piece of "journalism" i've ever read. why?
saysmydoctor
11/30/09, 11:33 AM
US has a track record of this.
Kurt Retenauer
11/30/09, 12:41 PM
I'm Christian and I don't hate gays. Unfortunately, I probably fall in the minority.
Kurt Retenauer
11/30/09, 12:51 PM
I hate how my faith whose 2 most important tenets are to love God and to love each other has been associated so closely with hate and war.
Yeah, it is really awful. I've always been taught that being a homosexual is not in itself a sin, but rather acting on the tendencies is the sin. Which I'm well aware is ridiculous. We all give into "tendencies" of sin, so I don't see why a homosexual that acts on his tendencies is any worse than a heterosexual acting on just about any other sin.
Yeah, it is really awful. I've always been taught that being a homosexual is not in itself a sin, but rather acting on the tendencies is the sin. Which I'm well aware is ridiculous. We all give into "tendencies" of sin, so I don't see why a homosexual that acts on his tendencies is any worse than a heterosexual acting on just about any other sin.
exactly. all sin is equal.
Kurt Retenauer
11/30/09, 01:08 PM
exactly. all sin is equal.
The old Catholic belief in "mortal" and "venial" sin just looms over many Christians heads, and many people still believe in it to this day, even though many theologians and Catholics have denounced it. But, as you said, a sin is a sin, which is how I've always felt.
I'm glad to see that there are Christians who still practice Christianity the way god wanted it. Thanks to everyone who posted on this! I really hope The Family gets outed.
re7ard1337
11/30/09, 02:29 PM
i just don't understand what is wrong with people that makes them think homosexuality is a bad thing, let alone that it should be punishable the same way murder is.
I'm Christian and I don't hate gays. Unfortunately, I probably fall in the minority.
I'm an atheist and I'm annoyed by Christians who have to add a caveat that they don't hate gays when they present themselves as Christians.
Kurt Retenauer
11/30/09, 03:53 PM
I'm an atheist and I'm annoyed by Christians who have to add a caveat that they don't hate gays when they present themselves as Christians.
Because Christians like myself don't want to be lumped in with the majority, we're hated by you? It's not my fault that the majority of people that share the same faith with me hate homosexuals. If I don't say it otherwise, I'd be jumped on people like you and called a "bible thumping, gun clinging, gay hater," right? I only added it so that I'm not assumed as a homosexual hater, unfortunately, since a majority of Christians are, one would need to add that they don't. Am I less of a Christian for not hating homosexuals?
Kurt Retenauer
11/30/09, 03:55 PM
I'm glad to see that there are Christians who still practice Christianity the way god wanted it. Thanks to everyone who posted on this! I really hope The Family gets outed.
No problem. It is the way God wanted it to be practiced. Glad to see that you're appreciating the way in which I practice my faith.
Kurt Retenauer
11/30/09, 03:59 PM
i just don't understand what is wrong with people that makes them think homosexuality is a bad thing, let alone that it should be punishable the same way murder is.
Some people think it's a bad thing, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they also think they should be punished for it. In other words, a homosexuals sins, which are of the same sins as a heterosexuals, are between him and God, and no human should punish a homosexual for his sins, as the person punishing is too, a sinner. Humans attempt to play creator too much.
No problem. It is the way God wanted it to be practiced. Glad to see that you're appreciating the way in which I practice my faith.
FINALLY, someone can tell me what god wants. Unfortunately, the Christians who hate gays are using the same line. WHO OH WHO is right?
Some people think it's a bad thing, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they also think they should be punished for it. In other words, a homosexuals sins, which are of the same sins as a heterosexuals, are between him and God, and no human should punish a homosexual for his sins, as the person punishing is too, a sinner. Humans attempt to play creator too much.
Humans attempt to assume there's a creator too much.
FINALLY, someone can tell me what god wants. Unfortunately, the Christians who hate gays are using the same line. WHO OH WHO is right?
Considering the faith is supposed to be based on tolerance, I'd probably say the ones who don't.
Kurt Retenauer
11/30/09, 05:44 PM
FINALLY, someone can tell me what god wants. Unfortunately, the Christians who hate gays are using the same line. WHO OH WHO is right?
Humans attempt to assume there's a creator too much.
Not saying who is right, I'm justifying my beliefs. I believe God wanted us to be tolerant of homosexuals. And, even if there's not a creator, that doesn't change the fact that we shouldn't assume a role of creator. Oh, and you still haven't answered why you assumed and called me out on being less of a Christian for hating homosexuals.
Kurt Retenauer
11/30/09, 05:46 PM
Considering the faith is supposed to be based on tolerance, I'd probably say the ones who don't.
He's just trying to be a smart ass by saying that I'm giving absolutist statements, when I'm just giving my justification for how I feel God wants us to treat homosexuals.
Considering the faith is supposed to be based on tolerance, I'd probably say the ones who don't.
That's awfully subjective and can't be substantiated in any way.
He's just trying to be a smart ass by saying that I'm giving absolutist statements, when I'm just giving my justification for how I feel God wants us to treat homosexuals.
Wrong, you weren't saying what YOU felt, you were telling us what GOD felt. You go on a rant about people assuming the role of creator, only to then tell people what god supposedly wants? Can you spell ironic?
Not saying who is right, I'm justifying my beliefs. I believe God wanted us to be tolerant of homosexuals. And, even if there's not a creator, that doesn't change the fact that we shouldn't assume a role of creator. Oh, and you still haven't answered why you assumed and called me out on being less of a Christian for hating homosexuals.
I said nothing of the sort. I simply commented on how annoying it is that you have to qualify it when you call yourself a christian. Blame that on who you will.
That's awfully subjective and can't be substantiated in any way.
It says it numerous times in the flipping Bible.
I have no idea what I believe religion-wise, but I do know a lot about religions, and yeah, Christianity is supposed to like that.
MyNameIsRoss
11/30/09, 06:37 PM
thought "The Family" was with this guy:
http://blogs.laweekly.com/ladaily/2008/10/27/charles%2Bmanson.jpg
It says it numerous times in the flipping Bible.
I have no idea what I believe religion-wise, but I do know a lot about religions, and yeah, Christianity is supposed to like that.
For every scripture you pull out of your ass from the bible, I can counter it with one demanding indiscriminate slaughter, stoning, and Christ coming "not to bring peace, but the sword".
Try your bullshit with someone who doesn't have years of religious study under their belt, son.
zion the lion
11/30/09, 06:43 PM
Did anyone suddenly care a lot less when they saw the words "in Uganda"?
Did anyone suddenly care a lot less when they saw the words "in Uganda"?
Did you honestly think this would happen in america? A law like that wouldn't even be put on a table for discussion here.
And why should you care less? There are people in Uganda who might be killed because of something they cant help.
Not to mention the big point of AMERICAN CHRISTIAN LEADERS who are funding for this. Do you know how many christians listen to The Family and treat them as a reliable source? My mom follows them like no other, yet she has the nerve to say that Fred Phelps is "just not doing it the right way."
The real issue here is that there are many people who arn't informed about The Family funding this. I wish there was a way to get this scene in mainstream media.
For every scripture you pull out of your ass from the bible, I can counter it with one demanding indiscriminate slaughter, stoning, and Christ coming "not to bring peace, but the sword".
Try your bullshit with someone who doesn't have years of religious study under their belt, son.
Old testament. It's a different covenant. For someone who has "years of religious studies", you seem to have little grasp on what differentiates the old testament from the new.
ArtForLovers
11/30/09, 08:21 PM
in Uganda.
http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/component/content/article/106-myblog/2176-all-in-the-family-interview-reveals-american-influence-behind-anti-gay-act
In summary, The Family has been funding to push the law in uganda that would give homosexuals the death penalty.
You know, I try to keep an open mind about christians and their pure hate for homosexuality, but there is so much hypocrisy that its gotten to the point where I think all christians are stupid.
I bet god loves murder.
don't hate all christians. not every single one of us are like that. Mainly fundamentalists are. But not me Honestly, God would not approve..
x togepi x
11/30/09, 09:14 PM
Did you honestly think this would happen in america? A law like that wouldn't even be put on a table for discussion here.
And why should you care less? There are people in Uganda who might be killed because of something they cant help.
Not to mention the big point of AMERICAN CHRISTIAN LEADERS who are funding for this. Do you know how many christians listen to The Family and treat them as a reliable source? My mom follows them like no other, yet she has the nerve to say that Fred Phelps is "just not doing it the right way."
The real issue here is that there are many people who arn't informed about The Family funding this. I wish there was a way to get this scene in mainstream media.
nah, in america we just bring vigilante justice against our gays.
ugh.
Kurt Retenauer
11/30/09, 09:25 PM
That's awfully subjective and can't be substantiated in any way.
Wrong, you weren't saying what YOU felt, you were telling us what GOD felt. You go on a rant about people assuming the role of creator, only to then tell people what god supposedly wants? Can you spell ironic?
I said nothing of the sort. I simply commented on how annoying it is that you have to qualify it when you call yourself a christian. Blame that on who you will.
If it comes from my mind, and I say something like "That's the way God wants it to be," it's obviously my own sentiment, and an opinion; not an absolute truth. You assumed as though I was saying it with the thought in mind that I was speaking as if my own feelings were absolutely correct, when that's not what I was getting at at all. In saying, "That's the way God wants it to be," that's how Kurt Retenauer feels, not how Kurt Retenauer knows and was certainly not "telling you what God felt" as a definite, but rather an opinion.
No rant on people assuming roles of creators. How does justifying a belief of mine with an opinion put me in the shoes of a creator? Therefore, anyone that states an opinion is assuming role of a creator? You need to realize that the things I say aren't all absolutist statements, just opinions.
And, you commented saying that you get annoyed when Christians bring up how they're not anti-homosexual, as in you get annoyed when people state that they're pro-homosexual to be different and stray from the norms of Christianity rather than just keeping it to themselves. People like me only say it so that we can distance ourselves from those that are ignorant, not to score brownie points with anyone. And, I agree that it sucks that it's come to the point that a Christian must say whether or not he's pro or anti gay rights, but don't get "annoyed" when people do so.
Kurt Retenauer
11/30/09, 09:28 PM
Did anyone suddenly care a lot less when they saw the words "in Uganda"?
All homosexuals, other than Americans, aren't fit for living? Genocide is okay outside of American boundaries. That's rational.
zion the lion
11/30/09, 09:30 PM
So, they're from Uganda, so don't care about them? All homosexuals, other than Americans, aren't fit for living? That's rational.
So is putting words in other people's mouths...isnt it?
Kurt Retenauer
11/30/09, 09:32 PM
So is putting words in other people's mouths...isnt it?
You said you "didn't care" once you saw it was only happening in Uganda. Don't blame your stupidity of a comment on me.
zion the lion
11/30/09, 09:36 PM
You said you "didn't care" once you saw it was only happening in Uganda. Don't blame your stupidity of a comment on me.
I said did anyone care less.
Kurt Retenauer
11/30/09, 09:37 PM
I said did anyone care less.
Inferring that you were one and wondering if anyone else shared in those same feelings. Watch the way you word things.
I said did anyone care less.
What are you trying to prove? No one agrees with you. If you're going to care less about different countries issues stemmed from our own US officials than get out.
Selfish.
zion the lion
12/01/09, 04:30 AM
What are you trying to prove? No one agrees with you. If you're going to care less about different countries issues stemmed from our own US officials than get out.
Selfish.
Then get out of where exactly? There are religious radicals that are already there, and that were there before our country had a chance to put it's meddlesome hands in there. I know that probably nobody agrees with me on my next few points, and that's perfectly fucking fine. I'd like to let you know, first of all, that homosexuality is punishable by death in quite a few countries, and I dont see you really complaining about them or the religions that also condemn homosexuality. I get that this is a huge violation of human rights, however, homosexuality isnt in the top 5 in my list of priorities with Uganda (just so that you know I'm serious about this list).
1.The LRA
2.The literacy rate
3.HIV prevalence in comparison to the rest of the world
4.Life expectancy
5.it's position in the HIPC program
I know it's hard not being accepted for who you are, I get that it's hard to hide your sexuality. But I know it's easier to pretend like you arent gay than it is to be a 5 year old fighting in a war, and it's a hell of a lot easier to pretend to be straight when you need to be, than to pretend to be an adult when the LRA comes to recruit more children.
You know, I try to keep an open mind about christians and their pure hate for homosexuality, but there is so much hypocrisy that its gotten to the point where I think all christians are stupid.
I love how you seem to think you're any better than those stupid christians, even though you are doing exactly what they do. You're hating a whole group of people based on your assumptions and generalizations about their "pure hatred" for a whole group of people. You even touch on their hypocrisy, which only helps validate how you feel. Quite frankly, if you want to complain about any country's policies on homosexuality, how about start with the fact that recently about 18 states didnt protect sexual orientation under their hate crime laws.
Yes I am so very goddamn selfish, arent I?
open mind
12/01/09, 04:47 AM
intolerance cannot be tolerated so fuck religion and everyone who believes in a god.
Inaction
12/01/09, 04:49 AM
Then get out of where exactly? There are religious radicals that are already there, and that were there before our country had a chance to put it's meddlesome hands in there. I know that probably nobody agrees with me on my next few points, and that's perfectly fucking fine. I'd like to let you know, first of all, that homosexuality is punishable by death in quite a few countries, and I dont see you really complaining about them or the religions that also condemn homosexuality. I get that this is a huge violation of human rights, however, homosexuality isnt in the top 5 in my list of priorities with Uganda (just so that you know I'm serious about this list).
1.The LRA
2.The literacy rate
3.HIV prevalence in comparison to the rest of the world
4.Life expectancy
5.it's position in the HIPC program
I know it's hard not being accepted for who you are, I get that it's hard to hide your sexuality. But I know it's easier to pretend like you arent gay than it is to be a 5 year old fighting in a war, and it's a hell of a lot easier to pretend to be straight when you need to be, than to pretend to be an adult when the LRA comes to recruit more children.
It amuses me that you list life expectancy, yet neglect to factor in the suicide rates for gay youth. Or the fact that this law would be, you know, actually killing people. Kind of shortens their life expectancy doesn't it? Not to mention the fallout that would occur if this law was taken into affect which would directly influence your number three. It's quite likely that HIV infection rates would increase under this law for pretty obvious reasons.
On a side note, I also wouldn't go around claiming you have any real understanding of what it is like to be gay when you aren't. It's easy to say somethings, well, easy when you've never had to go through it. It's hard to take anything you say seriously when you lack any experience in the matters at hand.
zion the lion
12/01/09, 05:59 AM
It amuses me that you list life expectancy, yet neglect to factor in the suicide rates for gay youth. Or the fact that this law would be, you know, actually killing people. Kind of shortens their life expectancy doesn't it? Not to mention the fallout that would occur if this law was taken into affect which would directly influence your number three. It's quite likely that HIV infection rates would increase under this law for pretty obvious reasons.
On a side note, I also wouldn't go around claiming you have any real understanding of what it is like to be gay when you aren't. It's easy to say somethings, well, easy when you've never had to go through it. It's hard to take anything you say seriously when you lack any experience in the matters at hand.
How would this law increase the prevalence of HIV significantly if at all? Does this law automatically erase any knowledge of what a condom is and how to use it? I doubt number two would be as affected by this law as it is by number one or number three, or even number 5.
When exactly did you look into that crystal ball of yours and come up with a definitive answer for what my sexuality is.
open mind
12/01/09, 06:48 AM
On a side note, I also wouldn't go around claiming you have any real understanding of what it is like to be gay when you aren't. It's easy to say somethings, well, easy when you've never had to go through it. It's hard to take anything you say seriously when you lack any experience in the matters at hand.
....because discrimination is a problem only gay people face.
saysmydoctor
12/01/09, 07:22 AM
You people need to stop listening to zion the lion and instead start laughing at her.
i'm not sure who said it a few posts back, but they made a good point about people jumping all over "christians" over generalizations, and how that is just as hypocritical as they think christianity is.
Old testament. It's a different covenant. For someone who has "years of religious studies", you seem to have little grasp on what differentiates the old testament from the new.
Different covenant, different testament...SAME GOD, dipshit. Same asshole running the show. Same cherrypickers claiming the OT is irrelevant where it serves them, quoting from it where it serves them.
i'm not sure who said it a few posts back, but they made a good point about people jumping all over "christians" over generalizations, and how that is just as hypocritical as they think christianity is.
Hardly, when christians are taught to practice love for all people. If they're christian enough to condemn gays and step on their chances for equality, then they should be christian enough to be less hatred.
I don't see how it's hypocrisy when I'm not promoting love. By saying you're christian, you're promoting all that Christianity is.
And I don't understand how what you said has any relevance to the thread? You're changing the issue to cause more drama when the issue at hand is The Family and their funds to make homosexuality an executable crime.
....because discrimination is a problem only gay people face.
She said gay people can "act straight" when they want.
She's spouting shit like she would know.
x togepi x
12/01/09, 06:29 PM
i think she meant to say it's a lot easier to be in the closet about homosexuality than your age. I don't think she meant it the way you guys are taking it, though I obviously think it's a bigger deal than she does.
open mind
12/01/09, 06:49 PM
She said gay people can "act straight" when they want.
She's spouting shit like she would know.
We've all acted like something we're not at some point.
Kurt Retenauer
12/01/09, 06:57 PM
I don't see how it's hypocrisy when I'm not promoting love. By saying you're christian, you're promoting all that Christianity is.
But, what is Christianity? Christianity is just a religion. In saying you're a Christian, you're saying you believe in Christ and his teachings. It doesn't mean that you support every aspect of Christianity. For example, I'm a Republican, but I don't support all that the Republican Party backs, just a majority. Unless you're saying that people are perceived to "promote" all that is Christianity when you tell someone you're a Christian. It's not a fair statement, because one can be a Christian and not believe every aspect, just a majority of them, but when you claim that you're a Christian, people assume that you believe EVERYTHING that a majority of Christians believe.
Kurt Retenauer
12/01/09, 07:01 PM
She said gay people can "act straight" when they want.
She's spouting shit like she would know.
In her defense, a friend of my girlfriend's (who is gay) would often go out with a bunch of girls, and when passing a group of men, he would grab a girl's hand just so that they wouldn't harass him. So, people do "act straight," but in the sense that they act like something they're not just to not face harassment. She didn't mean "act straight" in the sense that homosexuality is a choice.
rawesome
12/01/09, 07:12 PM
But, what is Christianity? Christianity is just a religion. In saying you're a Christian, you're saying you believe in Christ and his teachings. It doesn't mean that you support every aspect of Christianity. For example, I'm a Republican, but I don't support all that the Republican Party backs, just a majority. Unless you're saying that people are perceived to "promote" all that is Christianity when you tell someone you're a Christian. It's not a fair statement, because one can be a Christian and not believe every aspect, just a majority of them, but when you claim that you're a Christian, people assume that you believe EVERYTHING that a majority of Christians believe.
What's the point in being a Christian if you don't accept Christian doctrine?
I mean, I understand what you're saying, but if you're not accepting everything that Christianity is supposed to be, then can you really be a Christian? Religion is all about belief, so what are you if you don't believe in what they're saying?
zion the lion
12/01/09, 07:16 PM
Hardly, when christians are taught to practice love for all people. If they're christian enough to condemn gays and step on their chances for equality, then they should be christian enough to be less hatred.
I don't see how it's hypocrisy when I'm not promoting love. By saying you're christian, you're promoting all that Christianity is.
And I don't understand how what you said has any relevance to the thread? You're changing the issue to cause more drama when the issue at hand is The Family and their funds to make homosexuality an executable crime.
Well then I guess it's just ironic that you're hating and generalizing a group of people because they hate a group of people.
I explained why I asked if anyone else cared less, and I pointed out the irony/hypocrisy in you hating a religion for hating a sexual orientation. Not to mention the fact that there are about 16 other countries with laws saying that homosexuality is either punishable by death or by life in prison, most of them arent doing it based on Christianity. Why not call attention to those countries and their leaders too?
She said gay people can "act straight" when they want.
She's spouting shit like she would know.
You clearly didnt get anything I said.
I'm "spouting out shit" like I would know, because I do know.
i think she meant to say it's a lot easier to be in the closet about homosexuality than your age. I don't think she meant it the way you guys are taking it, though I obviously think it's a bigger deal than she does.
Of course, you said it way better than I did, but yes that is what I meant. Don't get me wrong, gay rights is something that has been very important to me for more than half of my life, and the fact that this law was even considered is horrifying. But there are bigger things happening in Uganda that need to be addressed.
Kurt Retenauer
12/01/09, 07:23 PM
What's the point in being a Christian if you don't accept Christian doctrine?
I mean, I understand what you're saying, but if you're not accepting everything that Christianity is supposed to be, then can you really be a Christian? Religion is all about belief, so what are you if you don't believe in what they're saying?
Because you can believe in Christianity without supporting all aspects of Christianity. A belief in Christianity is to believe in Jesus Christ and that He died for our sins, simply put. And by that definition, yes, you can be a Christian, even if you don't believe what "they're" saying regarding homosexuality. One can believe in Jesus and be a Christian in that sense, but not support the dogma behind such a faith.
Kurt Retenauer
12/01/09, 07:26 PM
Of course, you said it way better than I did, but yes that is what I meant. Don't get me wrong, gay rights is something that has been very important to me for more than half of my life, and the fact that this law was even considered is horrifying. But there are bigger things happening in Uganda that need to be addressed.
There are big issues happening everywhere, and, as you said, in Uganda as well. But, these bigger issues shouldn't overshadow all issues. In other words, today was World AIDS day, so in that case, forget about those with cancer? No. They're both hugely important and deserve equal attention. The point the OP was trying to make was that Uganda's issues are well-known throughout the world, though the case of homosexuality probably isn't, and it deserves to be.
rawesome
12/01/09, 07:29 PM
Because you can believe in Christianity without supporting all aspects of Christianity. A belief in Christianity is to believe in Jesus Christ and that He died for our sins, simply put. And by that definition, yes, you can be a Christian, even if you don't believe what "they're" saying regarding homosexuality. One can believe in Jesus and be a Christian in that sense, but not support the dogma behind such a faith.
But then you aren't believing Christianity, you're just believing that Jesus died for your sins. The faith and dogma are unified, that's what makes a religion.
jwicklun
12/01/09, 07:31 PM
What's the point in being a Christian if you don't accept Christian doctrine?
I mean, I understand what you're saying, but if you're not accepting everything that Christianity is supposed to be, then can you really be a Christian? Religion is all about belief, so what are you if you don't believe in what they're saying?
most christians I know rather model their lives by the teachings of Jesus Christ, rather than thumping the same verses from the Old Testament. Every Christian has their own view how to abide by the Bible, some use the teachings of good (ie helping your neighbor, the act of forgiveness, etc) and some people use it for the batshit crazy (westboro baptist church comes to mind). Despite whatever your religous beliefs, the people in this thread need to stop the over generalization that all christians are gay-bashing, bible thumping, idiots. If the person is using the Bible to promote the act of being a kind human being, just let them, but if they are being a raving lunatic, have at it, show them no mercy. End of rant.
SunnyInPhilly
12/01/09, 07:32 PM
What's the point in being a Christian if you don't accept Christian doctrine?
I mean, I understand what you're saying, but if you're not accepting everything that Christianity is supposed to be, then can you really be a Christian? Religion is all about belief, so what are you if you don't believe in what they're saying?
The same point as being a Republican or Democrat even though you don't support every single viewpoint of the party. Interpretation plays a big part in religion. How do you think there have been countless religions spawned from the same document (The Bible)? The fact that someone could read this article and assume all Christians believe this shows you're no less narrow-minded than the people who support this law.
rawesome
12/01/09, 07:34 PM
The same point as being a Republican or Democrat even though you don't support every single viewpoint of the party. Interpretation plays a big part in religion. How do you think there have been countless religions spawned from the same document (The Bible)? The fact that someone could read this article and assume all Christians believe this shows you're no less narrow-minded than the people who support this law.
I haven't even read the article yet, I was just asking a question. Don't be an overassuming asshat.
zion the lion
12/01/09, 07:43 PM
There are big issues happening everywhere, and, as you said, in Uganda as well. But, these bigger issues shouldn't overshadow all issues. In other words, today was World AIDS day, so in that case, forget about those with cancer? No. They're both hugely important and deserve equal attention. The point the OP was trying to make was that Uganda's issues are well-known throughout the world, though the case of homosexuality probably isn't, and it deserves to be.
The way I saw it, was that the OP was trying to call more attention to the fact that Christians were doing this, and I feel like he was ignoring the fact that there are other countries with the same laws, that arent christian.
rawesome
12/01/09, 07:45 PM
The way I saw it, was that the OP was trying to call more attention to the fact that Christians were doing this, and I feel like he was ignoring the fact that there are other countries with the same laws, that arent christian.
But there is a Christian group of American politicians supporting this law, which is his point.
Kurt Retenauer
12/01/09, 07:59 PM
But then you aren't believing Christianity, you're just believing that Jesus died for your sins. The faith and dogma are unified, that's what makes a religion.
As everyone else said, to believe and interpret the teachings of Jesus Christ is what makes you a Christian, not by believing what others have interpreted the Bible to mean.
rawesome
12/01/09, 08:03 PM
As everyone else said, to believe and interpret the teachings of Jesus Christ is what makes you a Christian, not by believing what others have interpreted the Bible to mean.
Yeah, you're right. I operated under the idea that "Christianity" was a religion, as opposed to an overarching idea that encompassed different religions.
Would you agree, then, that it would be a better system to eliminate "religion" in favor of everyone having individual beliefs?
open mind
12/01/09, 08:10 PM
Would you agree, then, that it would be a better system to eliminate "religion" in favor of everyone having individual beliefs?
some individuals believe they need religion to be in communion with god so i don't see how that would be possible to implement.
Well then I guess it's just ironic that you're hating and generalizing a group of people because they hate a group of people.
I explained why I asked if anyone else cared less, and I pointed out the irony/hypocrisy in you hating a religion for hating a sexual orientation. Not to mention the fact that there are about 16 other countries with laws saying that homosexuality is either punishable by death or by life in prison, most of them arent doing it based on Christianity. Why not call attention to those countries and their leaders too?
You clearly didnt get anything I said.
I'm "spouting out shit" like I would know, because I do know.
Of course, you said it way better than I did, but yes that is what I meant. Don't get me wrong, gay rights is something that has been very important to me for more than half of my life, and the fact that this law was even considered is horrifying. But there are bigger things happening in Uganda that need to be addressed.
I didn't say I hated christians. I said they were stupid. And mostly stupid for the relevence of the issue at hand.
My dad is stupid, but I still love him.
Kurt Retenauer
12/01/09, 10:05 PM
Yeah, you're right. I operated under the idea that "Christianity" was a religion, as opposed to an overarching idea that encompassed different religions.
Would you agree, then, that it would be a better system to eliminate "religion" in favor of everyone having individual beliefs?
It's too late at this point, but, in some cases, yes, and others, no. I think that everyone already has individual beliefs. I mean, in so far as the well-known religions, many people collectively can agree on things, but there probably aren'y many people that all share the exact same feelings, which in turn, would lead them to have individual beliefs. But, in efforts to make these individual beliefs prosper, there must be religions to introduce morals/ethics/simple guidelines/fundamentals to people searching for their own belief.
In essence, religious extremists make me think it's a good idea to eliminate religions. But without religions, I am pretty sure I would have never delved much into my beliefs in terms of a God without labels and general ideas held by faiths/religions created before me. The Christians/Buddhists/Hindus etc. all obviously have general concepts set forth, and these starting points and general principles ease the task of finding which best fits the person. So, religions are a good starting point to find one's beliefs, but it's important to not get caught up and follow what your religion says as a majority, and to keep your own conscience in mind at all times, and decide what is right in your mind, and not because "my faith/religion says so."
jwicklun
12/01/09, 10:41 PM
I didn't say I hated christians. I said they were stupid. And mostly stupid for the relevence of the issue at hand.
My dad is stupid, but I still love him.
I really don't see how having some sort of faith makes you an idiot. I am not a christian, but just because your an atheist does not mean you should act like your the smartest guy in the room.
edit: my point is that over generalizations are bad.
Hardly, when christians are taught to practice love for all people. If they're christian enough to condemn gays and step on their chances for equality, then they should be christian enough to be less hatred.
I don't see how it's hypocrisy when I'm not promoting love. By saying you're christian, you're promoting all that Christianity is.
And I don't understand how what you said has any relevance to the thread? You're changing the issue to cause more drama when the issue at hand is The Family and their funds to make homosexuality an executable crime.
but what you're assuming is that i support The Family. it's obvious that what they're doing is stupid and not Christian at all.
i was just saying that it doesn't make sense that all "christians" are lumped together into a huge, hating group that gets judged because of some bad representatives.
its like saying anyone from the middle east is going to eventually fly planes into our skyscrapers. it's a broad sweeping generalization that is just as hypocritical and stupid as some of the "anti-christian" people in this thread, and in this forum say all the time.
open mind
12/02/09, 06:47 AM
but what you're assuming is that i support The Family. it's obvious that what they're doing is stupid and not Christian at all.
i was just saying that it doesn't make sense that all "christians" are lumped together into a huge, hating group that gets judged because of some bad representatives.
its like saying anyone from the middle east is going to eventually fly planes into our skyscrapers. it's a broad sweeping generalization that is just as hypocritical and stupid as some of the "anti-christian" people in this thread, and in this forum say all the time.
i hate you religious people for being logical when i'm saying you'e all illogical idiots capable of nothing but intolerance.
seriously though, you can't say with certainty that their views aren't christian....you can only say that anyone with half a brain can see that the family is just a bunch of terrorists that (like nearly all modern religious terrorist groups) has an extreme right wing ideology.
i hate you religious people for being logical when i'm saying you'e all illogical idiots capable of nothing but intolerance.
seriously though, you can't say with certainty that their views aren't christian....you can only say that anyone with half a brain can see that the family is just a bunch of terrorists that (like all modern religious terrorist groups) have an extreme right wing ideology attached to them.
lol
i totally agree. there are psychos in every religion
open mind
12/02/09, 06:59 AM
lol
i totally agree. there are psychos in every religion
there are psychos in every religion and i don't think that the number of psychos would diminish if religion was abolished.
more then likely they'd just find some other asinine and obscure reason to kill their fellow man.
that's true. i guess the better statement is that there psychos everywhere.
open mind
12/02/09, 07:07 AM
that's true. i guess the better statement is that there psychos everywhere.
there are...but that doesn't mean the religious communities of the world hold zero responsibility for the madness surrounding them. religion (like most every other large group with a voice) really does need to do a better job of self regulating.
absolutely. it's just unfortunate that in most cases, it's the pyscho, right-wing, ultra conservative, etc... ones that get the attention and somehow make a lot of people assume terrible things about christianity. and the same goes for all other religions, large groups, etc...
that's one thing that i wish people in general, and on these forums, that just because i'm a christian or the other christians on this board don't hate people or anyone with different views. we have just as much of a right to believe in what we want as anyone else, whether athiest, agnostic, buddhist, etc...
open mind
12/02/09, 07:43 AM
absolutely. it's just unfortunate that in most cases, it's the pyscho, right-wing, ultra conservative, etc... ones that get the attention and somehow make a lot of people assume terrible things about christianity. and the same goes for all other religions, large groups, etc...
that's one thing that i wish people in general, and on these forums, that just because i'm a christian or the other christians on this board don't hate people or anyone with different views. we have just as much of a right to believe in what we want as anyone else, whether athiest, agnostic, buddhist, etc...
it doesn't just apply to religion. the troublesome minority tends to get the most press and thus cause the biggest shitstorms. the news usually shows highlights of a local crime committed by a minority and we end up with a higher incidence of minorities in prison. a global warming scientist becomes overzealous and climate change is decried as a hoax, a communist government run by a mad dictator commits atrocities and all communism is evil.....i'm sure you get the idea.
i don't think people think that you don't have the right to believe what you want believe. they may not want you pushing your beliefs onto them and they may be prone to making generalizations and assuming things about you but that's not automatically the same as attempting to destroy your ability to select the belief system you prefer.
insomnia is kicking my ass the last few days so if some of that doesn't make sense realize that these thoughts are coming from a sleep deprived mind.
no, i totally understand what you're saying. and i'm probably making a sweeping generalization myself about the people in these forums, lol.
it's just frustrating when people automatically get really defensive and angry over something that is so complex to discuss, debate, argue, etc...
x togepi x
12/02/09, 11:02 AM
Of course, you said it way better than I did, but yes that is what I meant. Don't get me wrong, gay rights is something that has been very important to me for more than half of my life, and the fact that this law was even considered is horrifying. But there are bigger things happening in Uganda that need to be addressed.
my main disagreement here is, i wonder why you're looking at things like a zero sum game. why divide these issues up assign them some arbitrary amount of importance? if something's fucked up, whether it's this law, child soldiers or the lack of infrastructure to fight the spread of hiv/aids, it's fucked up regardless of how important someone subjectively thinks it is.
I really don't see how having some sort of faith makes you an idiot. I am not a christian, but just because your an atheist does not mean you should act like your the smartest guy in the room.
edit: my point is that over generalizations are bad.
It makes you an idiot if it goes past faith and steps on the rights of others who are not christians. It's like, believe what you want, believe that homosexuals getting married will be the end of the world, believe that homosexuals should be sentenced to death, but don't bring that belief in physical existance and make peoples lives miserable.
You can think all you want about gay people, but don't think it's okay to deny them marriage.
There is plenty of level-headed christians, and there are a lot in this thread that I respect.
And I'm not athiest, I'm agnostic. But thats besides the point.
but what you're assuming is that i support The Family. it's obvious that what they're doing is stupid and not Christian at all.
i was just saying that it doesn't make sense that all "christians" are lumped together into a huge, hating group that gets judged because of some bad representatives.
its like saying anyone from the middle east is going to eventually fly planes into our skyscrapers. it's a broad sweeping generalization that is just as hypocritical and stupid as some of the "anti-christian" people in this thread, and in this forum say all the time.
Lumping christians in the hate group doesn't just apply just to the topic at hand, it applies to gay marriage as well. And a huge percentage of christians vote no for gay marriage, and are in support of propositions that deny gay marriage where it is already established.
So it does make sense to lump christians in that hate group. I'm not saying all christians are Fred Phelps. But it's safe to say Christians are against homosexuality, even though there are some that are not.
A few people from the middle east have committed terrorist attacks in america. Not a big percentage, so that's an unfair analogy.
jwicklun
12/02/09, 11:38 AM
It makes you an idiot if it goes past faith and steps on the rights of others who are not christians. It's like, believe what you want, believe that homosexuals getting married will be the end of the world, believe that homosexuals should be sentenced to death, but don't bring that belief in physical existance and make peoples lives miserable.
You can think all you want about gay people, but don't think it's okay to deny them marriage.
There is plenty of level-headed christians, and there are a lot in this thread that I respect.
And I'm not athiest, I'm agnostic. But thats besides the point.
I agree on the subject of the ignorance of homosexuality. but most christians really do not want to be lumped into that category with those douchebags. not all christians are out there to trample on the rights of others, but yeah, I underestand your frustration but generally be frustrated with homophobia, rather than christianity itself. I agree it has caused a lot of bad, but can inspire some good in some people.
Lumping christians in the hate group doesn't just apply just to the topic at hand, it applies to gay marriage as well. And a huge percentage of christians vote no for gay marriage, and are in support of propositions that deny gay marriage where it is already established.
So it does make sense to lump christians in that hate group. I'm not saying all christians are Fred Phelps. But it's safe to say Christians are against homosexuality, even though there are some that are not.
A few people from the middle east have committed terrorist attacks in america. Not a big percentage, so that's an unfair analogy.
I agree on the subject of the ignorance of homosexuality. but most christians really do not want to be lumped into that category with those douchebags. not all christians are out there to trample on the rights of others, but yeah, I underestand your frustration but generally be frustrated with homophobia, rather than christianity itself. I agree it has caused a lot of bad, but can inspire some good in some people.
i was pretty much gonna say that.
i think we're all in the same view point here as far as this specific thread is talking about, but that clears up what i'm getting at. i don't want to be associated with anyone who's a hate monger.
zion the lion
12/02/09, 05:09 PM
my main disagreement here is, i wonder why you're looking at things like a zero sum game. why divide these issues up assign them some arbitrary amount of importance? if something's fucked up, whether it's this law, child soldiers or the lack of infrastructure to fight the spread of hiv/aids, it's fucked up regardless of how important someone subjectively thinks it is.
Because in my head, if we were to fix these problems, we couldnt really do them all at the same time and do a good job, so I'd do everything one at a time starting at the beginning of the list.
x togepi x
12/02/09, 05:21 PM
Because in my head, if we were to fix these problems, we couldnt really do them all at the same time and do a good job, so I'd do everything one at a time starting at the beginning of the list.
don't you think a lot of these problems have the same or similar root causes though?
zion the lion
12/02/09, 05:26 PM
don't you think a lot of these problems have the same or similar root causes though?
Yeah, but my logic doesnt work that way.
x togepi x
12/02/09, 05:32 PM
Yeah, but my logic doesnt work that way.
fair enough.
And I'm not athiest, I'm agnostic. But thats besides the point.
Just wanted to point out that they're not mutually exclusive.
Inaction
12/03/09, 01:54 AM
How would this law increase the prevalence of HIV significantly if at all? Does this law automatically erase any knowledge of what a condom is and how to use it? I doubt number two would be as affected by this law as it is by number one or number three, or even number 5.
When exactly did you look into that crystal ball of yours and come up with a definitive answer for what my sexuality is.
It would increase the infection rates. There's no real question.
You can't actually think that there would be effective education about gay sexual practices, or sex itself, and the risks involved when the acts themselves are illegal. HIV infection rates are already increasing in gay youth in urban populations, specifically major cities and that's with a decent education. Imagine how much worse it would be without it. So automatically, the lack of education about the matters would impact infection rates. It's not that hard to comprehend.
Also, you could go as far as to say that due to the illegal nature of the acts and the social stigma attached to them, it's not unrealistic that the acts themselves would involve strangers, casual encounters and/or high risk environments/situations.
As for your second point, you said you 'get that it's hard', not that you 'know its hard'. From that alone it's not difficult to infer what your sexuality would most likely be. And even if you were gay, it doesn't change the fact that you still wouldn't know how difficult it is for another person. Your experiences would greatly differ from another persons.
And drop the attitude, it's not doing you favors.
....because discrimination is a problem only gay people face.
1) I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth.
2) Because all discrimination is the same? By that logic a straight white female would know what a gay black male faces because they are both discriminated against. Give me a break. Not all discrimination is the same.
zion the lion
12/03/09, 03:06 AM
It would increase the infection rates. There's no real question.
You can't actually think that there would be effective education about gay sexual practices, or sex itself, and the risks involved when the acts themselves are illegal. HIV infection rates are already increasing in gay youth in urban populations, specifically major cities and that's with a decent education. Imagine how much worse it would be without it. So automatically, the lack of education about the matters would impact infection rates. It's not that hard to comprehend.
Also, you could go as far as to say that due to the illegal nature of the acts and the social stigma attached to them, it's not unrealistic that the acts themselves would involve strangers, casual encounters and/or high risk environments/situations.
As for your second point, you said you 'get that it's hard', not that you 'know its hard'. From that alone it's not difficult to infer what your sexuality would most likely be. And even if you were gay, it doesn't change the fact that you still wouldn't know how difficult it is for another person. Your experiences would greatly differ from another persons.
And drop the attitude, it's not doing you favors.
1) I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth.
2) Because all discrimination is the same? By that logic a straight white female would know what a gay black male faces because they are both discriminated against. Give me a break. Not all discrimination is the same.
Again, this law erases everyone's preexisting knowledge of condoms, fidelity, and abstinence, right? Uganda was devastated by AIDS, then people learned what needed to be done to prevent it, there isnt a lack of education anymore as much as there's a lack of resources and a lack of fear because there's now medicine to treat HIV.
If you dont want other people putting words in your mouth, then maybe you should avoid doing the same thing. You deciding to infer that I'm straight by me saying that I "get" instead of "know", completely contradicts what you next say about how even if I was gay I wouldnt know how every other gay person feels.
Inaction
12/03/09, 03:44 AM
Again, this law erases everyone's preexisting knowledge of condoms, fidelity, and abstinence, right? Uganda was devastated by AIDS, then people learned what needed to be done to prevent it, there isnt a lack of education anymore as much as there's a lack of resources and a lack of fear because there's now medicine to treat HIV.
If you dont want other people putting words in your mouth, then maybe you should avoid doing the same thing. You deciding to infer that I'm straight by me saying that I "get" instead of "know", completely contradicts what you next say about how even if I was gay I wouldnt know how every other gay person feels.
No it doesn't but it also doesn't consider the future generations. If you seriously think a young person who has incredibly limited knowledge of homosexuality is not going to be at greater risk then there's not point even having this discussion. When something is made illegal the risks involved with doing said illegal activity increase. A gay person in a major western society is going to have more and safer options for sexual activity than a closeted person where it's illegal. To suggest that this law won't impact HIV infection rates is narrow-sighted. By your logic there would be no new HIV cases because everybody knows how to prevent it. Evidently that isn't the case.
I didn't put words in your mouth so don't even go down that road. You worded your statements in a way which suggested heterosexuality and a lack of personal connection/experience to the situation. If I said I get that it's hard to be black, it suggests i'm not. If I said I knew how hard it was being black, then it suggests I am. There's a difference. Why you are so defensive about it is beyond me.
And how does it contradict what I said? Do you know what every other gay person goes through? Are you really trying to make that argument? If you are gay, would you have a greater understanding? Yes. But it wouldn't be complete. If you were straight you would have less of an understanding. I don't see how any of that contradicts itself.
recall reality
12/03/09, 04:59 PM
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/12/03/sweden-uganda/
Sweden is cutting aid to Uganda over this bill, adding to UK and Canadian sentiments. It'd be nice to hear something substantial from the US, something Rachel Maddow will be talking about tonight.
I actually caught the interview on NPR with Jeff Sharlet about "The Family", pretty crazy how much they're interwoven into our political history. The number of current congressman alone is frightening.
Just wanted to point out that they're not mutually exclusive.
They kind of are. There's a difference between being open minded about a higher power and being totally against the idea of a higher power.
rawesome
12/03/09, 07:54 PM
They kind of are. There's a difference between being open minded about a higher power and being totally against the idea of a higher power.
Atheism isn't necessarily against the idea of a higher power. The point is that atheists just don't believe that there is one. But, in that vain, I know atheists who believe in a "higher power" but in the form of something like infinite energy. In fact, unless you are saying that you're open to the idea of a religious deity, one who is mentioned in some archaic, religious text, than it doesn't matter what you label yourself because it is the same thing. If you believe that something, not necessarily a deity but a preexisting force of some type exists, just not a Christian/Jewish/Muslim or Hindu or Greek god, than you are still an Atheist.
Atheism isn't necessarily against the idea of a higher power. The point is that atheists just don't believe that there is one. But, in that vain, I know atheists who believe in a "higher power" but in the form of something like infinite energy. In fact, unless you are saying that you're open to the idea of a religious deity, one who is mentioned in some archaic, religious text, than it doesn't matter what you label yourself because it is the same thing. If you believe that something, not necessarily a deity but a preexisting force of some type exists, just not a Christian/Jewish/Muslim or Hindu or Greek god, than you are still an Atheist.
Wrong?
peder458
12/03/09, 10:22 PM
They kind of are. There's a difference between being open minded about a higher power and being totally against the idea of a higher power.
based on some definitions:
-agnostic means a lack of knowledge (often, not always, pertaining to god). You may say that it is impossible to have knowledge about god for example.
-atheist means a lack of a belief in god. You may say that you lack a belief in god.
GeeBee is right - you could possibly say that there is no way to "know"/have knowledge that god exists (agnosticism), and you may ALSO not be able to claim - for any reason - that you believe a certain god exists (atheism). By those definitions, you could be labeled as both, neither, one and not the other, or vice versa. The terms are not mutually exclusive: one deals with a lack of knowledge and one deals with a lack of belief.
rawesome
12/04/09, 07:38 AM
Wrong?
Oh. Why?
Bruised26
12/11/09, 09:43 PM
Whatt? this is crazy.
Christianity is not about killing anyone.
This law wont pass, and thats just common sense. God loves Gay people too.
caveBEAR
12/12/09, 08:07 AM
Whatt? this is crazy.
Christianity is not about killing anyone.
This law wont pass, and thats just common sense. God loves Gay people too.
Are you that fucking naive? It's Uganda...the law very well could pass.
Bruised26
12/12/09, 08:51 AM
Are you that fucking naive? It's Uganda...the law very well could pass.
Oh I misunderstood when I read "us politicians"
But if its Uganda, then the gays are screwed haha
Matthew Tsai
12/12/09, 09:54 AM
in Uganda.
http://www.independent.co.ug/index.php/component/content/article/106-myblog/2176-all-in-the-family-interview-reveals-american-influence-behind-anti-gay-act
In summary, The Family has been funding to push the law in uganda that would give homosexuals the death penalty.
You know, I try to keep an open mind about christians and their pure hate for homosexuality, but there is so much hypocrisy that its gotten to the point where I think all christians are stupid.
I bet god loves murder.
http://www.rickwarren.com/
x togepi x
12/12/09, 11:25 AM
http://www.rickwarren.com/
what are you trying to prove with this?
Rick totally met with Ugandan politicians about homosexuality, though he claims he doesn't support the bill. Dude is slimy as fuck.
Matthew Tsai
12/12/09, 11:27 AM
what are you trying to prove with this?
Rick totally met with Ugandan politicians about homosexuality, though he claims he doesn't support the bill. Dude is slimy as fuck.
I'm trying to show that not all Christians are blindly following this despicable law.
x togepi x
12/12/09, 11:30 AM
I'm trying to show that not all Christians are blindly following this despicable law.
You probably should have picked a politican who didn't talk to the Ugandan government about dealing with homosexuality. Rick is trying to cover his tracks. He's a fucking douchebag about homosexuality.
Kurt Retenauer
12/12/09, 11:35 AM
I think that many front-runners of Christianity are afraid to speak out in support of homosexuality in fear of no one backing them up, but that many do support them. No one wants to be the first in support in fear of rejection and denouncement from within Christianity.
Matthew Tsai
12/12/09, 11:36 AM
You probably should have picked a politican who didn't talk to the Ugandan government about dealing with homosexuality. Rick is trying to cover his tracks. He's a fucking douchebag about homosexuality.
Huh. Never mind then. I haven't been paying attention to this guy so I had no idea but I just read an article on him refusing to condemn the law at first.
x togepi x
12/12/09, 11:37 AM
Huh. Never mind then. I haven't been paying attention to this guy so I had no idea but I just read an article on him refusing to condemn the law at first.
Yeah, he only started condemning it because people started bringing up how he is really influential in uganda. He is really slimy about homosexuality. He'll promote homophobia and then tell people that he didn't. it's just a bad example.
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