Ask me anything about the Music Industry

[Alex_Burton]

Ok, so I'm not an expert but I know a lot of shit about touring, being a musician, PR, booking, and working in various roles within the industry. I get a lot of emails asking for advice, so I thought I'd open it up publicly for anyone with specific questions about anything related to the music industry.

Since the end of the year is approaching, there's less music news, which means I'm short on blog material. So I will be discussing the questions on my blog, Get Fresh USA (http://www.getfreshusa.com).

You can submit questions in four ways:

Email me: alexburton5000 [at] gmail.com
Twitter: www.twitter.com/GetFreshUSA (http://www.twitter.com/getfreshusa)
Private message me on AbsolutePunk.net
or just post your question here.

I'll post my answers in this thread as well, so you don't have to keep visiting the blog looking to see if your question was answered.

That being said, get at me.

Alex
GetFreshUSA (http://www.getfreshusa.com)
Twitter.com/GetFreshUSA (http://www.twitter.com/getfreshusa)

[remoteCONTROL]

I'm a pretty seasoned musician myself and have booked a couple of west coast tours, but it's always hit or miss asking for guarantees. We had a hook up with a booking agent and our old manager showed us what he was using to book our tours. It was short and abrupt and to the point but that can't be the best way to deal with larger sized venues can it? When I booked them myself, getting popular venues to even respond was tough. Do you have a sample letter that you mass email to everyone and if so, what is it comprised of? I guess it's just been hit or miss trying to be too nice or too short. It'd be nice to find a silver bullet that all venues are used to.

[Alex_Burton]

I'm a pretty seasoned musician myself and have booked a couple of west coast tours, but it's always hit or miss asking for guarantees. We had a hook up with a booking agent and our old manager showed us what he was using to book our tours. It was short and abrupt and to the point but that can't be the best way to deal with larger sized venues can it? When I booked them myself, getting popular venues to even respond was tough. Do you have a sample letter that you mass email to everyone and if so, what is it comprised of? I guess it's just been hit or miss trying to be too nice or too short. It'd be nice to find a silver bullet that all venues are used to.

Thanks for asking! The following is also on my blog, Get Fresh USA (http://www.GetFreshUSA.com), along with a little picture of you dudes. Your band's pretty good btw.

Dudes,

Unfortunately there is no silver bullet for venues and talent buyers. Booking shows and tours without a rolodex of seasoned contacts and friends is tough, and it takes a long time, but it is possible. It’s just like being a publicist or a salesman. As such, there’s no form letter because every buyer and every tour is different. Here’s some tips on how to make your band more appealing and on booking strategically:

1) Hone Your Pitch - When you pitch your band or tour package to a venue, you are making a sale. You’re asking them for money in exchange for a service. You need to have a good sales pitch. Focus on key selling points of your band and be factual about it. You’re a salesman, not a hype machine. Start with a brief intro that answers the 5 W’s (who, what, when, where, why), and give a line or two about your band. Mention things like your touring history in the area, your draw, bigger bands that you’ve shared the stage with, etc. The more selling points you have, the more appealing you are to the buyer. Avoid being long winded and wordy, and include links to your music and social networks.

2) Know the Venue - Don’t pitch to every venue out there. When booking a show make sure you research the club and ensure it’s an appropriate place for your band. If you’re a metal band, the country western bar doesn’t want to book you, and to be honest you don’t want to play there because you’ll just piss people off. If your draw is minimal, pitch to a smaller venue. There’s nothing more embarrassing than promising a packed house and playing to a huge, empty room.

3) Be Reasonable - If you’re not worth $1000, then don’t ask for it. If it’s going to cost you that much to get there and back and you can’t draw a crowd, then you shouldn’t be playing there anyway. Typically $100 is a reasonable guarantee for a small band or opening act. You don’t want to sell yourself short, but you don’t want to set the bar too high either.

4) Fraud - It’s ok to be a fraud here. Lend yourself some credence attaching a name to your “booking agency.” Instead of being Donny from the band Computer Beach Party, be Donny from The CBP Group. It’s all about the packaging. No one would buy hotdogs if they were called “All the Parts You Don’t Want to Eat Molded into a Log Dogs.” Present yourself professionally and add legitimacy.

5) Play the Suburbs - I said this somewhere in an earlier post. If you can’t get a show in Philly, then play a legion hall in suburban PA. Kids in the suburbs, especially in states where cities are far apart, are usually starved for music. It’s easier to get booked in these towns and chances are you’ll play for more kids since the other bands will likely be from the local high school. I can say hands down that the most continually lucrative markets for my band were always places like Fort Myers, FL or Wichita Falls, TX, or other similar places. You also end up forming strong friendships with the locals and they will support you forever.

6) Get in on the Ground Floor - One move I used to use all the time was soliciting newly signed bands for tours. Usually they don’t yet have booking agents and their touring opportunities are slimmer. You can use their label affiliation to get better guarantees and more consistent booking. Usually these labels will be doing tour promo for their artist which helps you since you’re part of the tour package.

7) Follow Through and Be Friendly - These people get hundreds of emails a week from people just like you. If you don’t hear back from them in a day or two, send a follow up email or call them on the phone. And make sure you’re friendly for Christ’s sake. Tell them you love their club and thank them for returning your email or talking to you on the phone. They’ll be more likely to remember you next time and maybe throw you a bone by letting you open up for the big local band who’s probably really terrible anyway, which makes you look better by comparison.

8) Work Hard - Venues know that the more promotion there is, the better. So offer to promote the crap out of your show. Send the club posters, flier at upcoming shows, push to your email list and social networks, etc. The more leg work you can do for the good of the show, the more willing the venue will be to give you a chance. If you deliver, it’ll go a long way in getting you repeat shows too.

[JoeJealousy]

this blog keeps getting better and better

[remoteCONTROL]

thanks man!

[FromTheBalcony]

So I'm aware that press kits need to show a bands abillity to be independent and successful at the same time. But my question is what is the best way to demonstrate that in a press kit? And also what is the best way to make yours stick out in the giant pile of them? I'm sure anyone would love to know that. Thank you!

[Alex_Burton]

thanks man!

No problem dude. Happy to help.


Joe, I'm glad you're still reading the blog! How's You Vandal doing?


From the Balcony, I'll post an answer to your question on Tuesday!

[AndrewIcex]

I enjoy the blog very much.

[Alex_Burton]

So I'm aware that press kits need to show a bands abillity to be independent and successful at the same time. But my question is what is the best way to demonstrate that in a press kit? And also what is the best way to make yours stick out in the giant pile of them? I'm sure anyone would love to know that. Thank you!

Here it is, straight from the blog (Get Fresh USA (http://www.getfreshusa.com))

Let’s face it guys, the notion of a traditional press kit is dated. Most people don’t want physical mail piling up in their offices, and the internet has made discovering new music easier than ever before. There are also many different sources where you would traditionally send a press kit: booking agents, record labels, press outlets, management, festival coordinators, etc. Since all of these recipients provide different services and value different qualities, you would want to emphasize different attributes when pitching to each of them.

I would like to stop here and note a recent article by our friends at Musformation that discusses the folly of chasing after record labels. Read it here (http://musformation.com/2009/12/getting-signed-be-too-proud-to-beg.html).

Sending unsolicited press kits to those that don’t accept them is quick way to get your package in the trash. Before sending anything to anybody, research the outlet and find out how they prefer to be contacted. Usually they will indicate what information they want from you and the method in which they want to receive it. This saves them time and prevents you from wasting your hard work.

I’ve found the best way to create an all-encompassing pitch is to create a Social Media Press Release (SMPR). SMPR’s contain all the relevant talking points of a traditional press kit, along with links to various relevant forms of media and social bookmarking. While many are using EPK’s (Electronic Press Kits) these days, I prefer the SMPR as it’s more interactive and comprehensive. Two great leaders in communications, FutureWorks and Shift Communications, have provided templates for creating SMPR’s. Use these templates to create a thorough, comprehensive, organized, and impressive presentation of your band. They are linked below. Open them, right click, and save. Insert your relevant information, mp3s, and video, along with all pertinent information. Don’t say I never gave you nothin!

SHIFT COMMUNICATIONS SMPR TEMPLATE (http://www.shiftcomm.com/downloads/smprtemplate.pdf)

FUTURE WORKS SMPR TEMPLATE (http://www.future-works.com/about/agency_news/files/How%20To%20Write%20SMPRs%20by%20Bri an%20Solis.pdf)

[JoeJealousy]

.


Joe, I'm glad you're still reading the blog! How's You Vandal doing?



We are doing pretty good. Just finalized our mixes with Stephen Egerton for the new album, so should be getting the finished product early next year. Other than that just starting to book a ton of shows and get back out there full force.

[Alex_Burton]

We are doing pretty good. Just finalized our mixes with Stephen Egerton for the new album, so should be getting the finished product early next year. Other than that just starting to book a ton of shows and get back out there full force.

Awesome! Exciting times for you guys! Let me know if you ever make it up to New Jersey.

[FromTheBalcony]

Here it is, straight from the blog (Get Fresh USA (http://www.getfreshusa.com))

Let’s face it guys, the notion of a traditional press kit is dated. Most people don’t want physical mail piling up in their offices, and the internet has made discovering new music easier than ever before. There are also many different sources where you would traditionally send a press kit: booking agents, record labels, press outlets, management, festival coordinators, etc. Since all of these recipients provide different services and value different qualities, you would want to emphasize different attributes when pitching to each of them.

I would like to stop here and note a recent article by our friends at Musformation that discusses the folly of chasing after record labels. Read it here (http://musformation.com/2009/12/getting-signed-be-too-proud-to-beg.html).

Sending unsolicited press kits to those that don’t accept them is quick way to get your package in the trash. Before sending anything to anybody, research the outlet and find out how they prefer to be contacted. Usually they will indicate what information they want from you and the method in which they want to receive it. This saves them time and prevents you from wasting your hard work.

I’ve found the best way to create an all-encompassing pitch is to create a Social Media Press Release (SMPR). SMPR’s contain all the relevant talking points of a traditional press kit, along with links to various relevant forms of media and social bookmarking. While many are using EPK’s (Electronic Press Kits) these days, I prefer the SMPR as it’s more interactive and comprehensive. Two great leaders in communications, FutureWorks and Shift Communications, have provided templates for creating SMPR’s. Use these templates to create a thorough, comprehensive, organized, and impressive presentation of your band. They are linked below. Open them, right click, and save. Insert your relevant information, mp3s, and video, along with all pertinent information. Don’t say I never gave you nothin!

SHIFT COMMUNICATIONS SMPR TEMPLATE (http://www.shiftcomm.com/downloads/smprtemplate.pdf)

FUTURE WORKS SMPR TEMPLATE (http://www.future-works.com/about/agency_news/files/How%20To%20Write%20SMPRs%20by%20Bri an%20Solis.pdf)

wow thanks so much! really appreciate it :D

[Alex_Burton]

No problem! I'm happy to help.

Who's next? Let's keep those questions coming!

[Deadbolt23]

For a smaller band, would you recommend joining a label? I hear a lot of people saying that if you work hard you can do just as much good as a label to promote your band, without the cost. I don't know much about the music industry as a whole, so it'd be great to hear from someone with a bit of experience.

[SD_John]

Something to add to Deadbolt23, since its a more general question like that. Might sound noobish, but what the heck. What exactly does a label do and how do they help your band?

[Alex_Burton]

For a smaller band, would you recommend joining a label? I hear a lot of people saying that if you work hard you can do just as much good as a label to promote your band, without the cost. I don't know much about the music industry as a whole, so it'd be great to hear from someone with a bit of experience.

Something to add to Deadbolt23, since its a more general question like that. Might sound noobish, but what the heck. What exactly does a label do and how do they help your band?

Hey guys,

Sorry this took a few days. Anyway, here's my answer, straight from my blog: Get Fresh USA (http://www.GetFreshUSA.com).

I could go on for days about the pros and cons of signing to a label. Some labels do a really incredible job for their bands while others do more harm than good. I decided to get some secondary input on this one, so I hit up my friend Francesca Caldera, publicist and A&R rep at Equal Vision Records. Here’s what she had to say:

“After Radiohead did what they did, everyone sort of woke up and thought “wait a second, why do I even need a label” and the truth is not everyone does. I know, this is strange coming from someone who works at a label.


If you work REALLY hard, learn to budget yourself, and get a good team around you (a manager that actually does something, a book agent who can get you on the right tours, superfans talking to their friends about you, etc) you will probably be fine. The key there is working REALLY hard. By signing with a label, you have, essentially, another 5 or 6 (depending on the size of your label) members of your band working with you.

You are in a band for a reason: you like to write and play music. Most band members don’t want to have to deal with all of the business side of things and don’t have the time to make the connections needed to take care of that business. A label has already established those connections, built relationships, and earned the trust of these connections so when they pitch your hot new band, they’ll listen better than if it was just coming from you.

The main thing labels have (or should have) that you might not is money. Think of a record label as a bank that you are taking a loan from to record, manufacture, and promote your album and tour, but that bank is also doing everything it can to help you make that money back and then some, so that you’re not only debt free but also get paid.

Another thing labels have that you don’t (at least not on the scale that many labels have) is physical distribution. As the digital world takes over and the physical sales diminish, this isn’t going to be in the “pro” column for too long, but it certainly isn’t a “con”. While you can get digital distribution yourself, putting your album in places such as iTunes, Rhapsody, etc., the labels usually have deals in place to get a better rate than if you were to try and get your album up for sale in the same places.

And scene.”

This is a pretty good summation of what labels are good for. In this business, a lot of your opportunities come through connections. Everyday you have labels folks, managers, booking agents, and publicists swapping favors like Tiger Woods swaps trashy bar skanks (ZING!). Having a team on board that can pull these strings and ease the workload will streamline the efficiency and effectiveness of your business (band).

However, as Francesca said, not every band needs a label. If you find your self rising rapidly and finding success without the help of a label, then stay independent and keep that money in your own pocket. If you decide that you want to sign to a label, make sure that they’re a good fit for you. It’s important to make sure the label has the right goals and vision for your band. Look at the things that each label can offer you, and compare this to what you can do on your own.

If you’re like to submit a question to “Ask Me Anything About the Music Industry,” email me at AlexBurton5000 [at] gmail [dot] com.

[Deadbolt23]

Hey guys,

Sorry this took a few days. Anyway, here's my answer, straight from my blog: Get Fresh USA (http://www.GetFreshUSA.com).

I could go on for days about the pros and cons of signing to a label. Some labels do a really incredible job for their bands while others do more harm than good. I decided to get some secondary input on this one, so I hit up my friend Francesca Caldera, publicist and A&R rep at Equal Vision Records. Here’s what she had to say:

“After Radiohead did what they did, everyone sort of woke up and thought “wait a second, why do I even need a label” and the truth is not everyone does. I know, this is strange coming from someone who works at a label.


If you work REALLY hard, learn to budget yourself, and get a good team around you (a manager that actually does something, a book agent who can get you on the right tours, superfans talking to their friends about you, etc) you will probably be fine. The key there is working REALLY hard. By signing with a label, you have, essentially, another 5 or 6 (depending on the size of your label) members of your band working with you.

You are in a band for a reason: you like to write and play music. Most band members don’t want to have to deal with all of the business side of things and don’t have the time to make the connections needed to take care of that business. A label has already established those connections, built relationships, and earned the trust of these connections so when they pitch your hot new band, they’ll listen better than if it was just coming from you.

The main thing labels have (or should have) that you might not is money. Think of a record label as a bank that you are taking a loan from to record, manufacture, and promote your album and tour, but that bank is also doing everything it can to help you make that money back and then some, so that you’re not only debt free but also get paid.

Another thing labels have that you don’t (at least not on the scale that many labels have) is physical distribution. As the digital world takes over and the physical sales diminish, this isn’t going to be in the “pro” column for too long, but it certainly isn’t a “con”. While you can get digital distribution yourself, putting your album in places such as iTunes, Rhapsody, etc., the labels usually have deals in place to get a better rate than if you were to try and get your album up for sale in the same places.

And scene.”

This is a pretty good summation of what labels are good for. In this business, a lot of your opportunities come through connections. Everyday you have labels folks, managers, booking agents, and publicists swapping favors like Tiger Woods swaps trashy bar skanks (ZING!). Having a team on board that can pull these strings and ease the workload will streamline the efficiency and effectiveness of your business (band).

However, as Francesca said, not every band needs a label. If you find your self rising rapidly and finding success without the help of a label, then stay independent and keep that money in your own pocket. If you decide that you want to sign to a label, make sure that they’re a good fit for you. It’s important to make sure the label has the right goals and vision for your band. Look at the things that each label can offer you, and compare this to what you can do on your own.

If you’re like to submit a question to “Ask Me Anything About the Music Industry,” email me at AlexBurton5000 [at] gmail [dot] com.

Thanks a lot. Very helpful. This is one of the best threads I've seen on AP in a while.

[Alex_Burton]

Thanks a lot. Very helpful. This is one of the best threads I've seen on AP in a while.

No sweat. Glad to be of service.

Anybody else have questions?

[kylafornia]

A&R's: are they still relevant??

So I came across this contest on LP33.tv (http://www.lp33.tv/studiofasttrack), where bands compete to win 3 months of Michael Rosenblatt's A&R expertise (guy who signed Madonna and Depeche Mode) and he helps the band raise money to pay for a 5 song EP. But the question still stands...

Do A&R's still play a pivotal role in the industry anymore? With the uprising of new music websites like MySpace and iLike and Reverbnation and you could probably throw LP33.tv in there, if bands can do it all themselves these days, who needs an A&R?

I think most bands out there don't really know what an A&R does, and how they can really help them.

[Alex_Burton]

A&R's: are they still relevant??

So I came across this contest on LP33.tv (http://www.lp33.tv/studiofasttrack), where bands compete to win 3 months of Michael Rosenblatt's A&R expertise (guy who signed Madonna and Depeche Mode) and he helps the band raise money to pay for a 5 song EP. But the question still stands...

Do A&R's still play a pivotal role in the industry anymore? With the uprising of new music websites like MySpace and iLike and Reverbnation and you could probably throw LP33.tv in there, if bands can do it all themselves these days, who needs an A&R?

I think most bands out there don't really know what an A&R does, and how they can really help them.

Oooof! I have been away too long during this holiday break! But it's good to be back and I'm happy this thread didn't disappear!

Anyway, I think A&R's are only as relevant as the record label they represent. Without A&R people I think there would be a significant breakdown in communication at record labels, so to that end, A&R is relevant but mostly to the point of giving an artist a voice at a record label, and bringing in new talent. I think the bigger question is really "Are labels still relevant?" There are a million sites that offer the opportunities for artists to do what labels do (this includes, A&R, marketing, sales, distribution, etc.). While the playing field is being leveled, labels still command a majority of the market, so they're relevant, just not necessary.

I think you'll start to see roles change at labels in the future (as they are currently). You already have indies like Equal Vision, whose in-house publicist also does A&R for certain groups. So you may see more role expansion like that to cut the costs of hiring people who only do A&R. As long as there are labels though, someone will be handling that A&R responsibility, and if they're not, then the artists they represent will have a miserable career withering away at a label where no one gives a shit about them.

[sinktylersink]

First off, this is a great thread. My question is:

What role does a band's manager play? I'm thinking in the case of the band having a full support system (manager, publicist, booking agent, lawyer, anything else). What would a manager be doing for the band? Do managers play different roles for signed and unsigned bands? Say a band only has a manager and nothing else, would he be expected to take on many more roles (like agent, publicist, etc.)?

Thanks Alex!

[Alex_Burton]

First off, this is a great thread. My question is:

What role does a band's manager play? I'm thinking in the case of the band having a full support system (manager, publicist, booking agent, lawyer, anything else). What would a manager be doing for the band? Do managers play different roles for signed and unsigned bands? Say a band only has a manager and nothing else, would he be expected to take on many more roles (like agent, publicist, etc.)?

Thanks Alex!

I'm glad you're enjoying this thread, because I really am as well. I love talking about the industry, and I especially like dispensing advice to help other bands avoid all the crap I've stepped in over the years. Anyway, on to your question...

Managers get a bad rap a lot of the time because there are so many shitty ones out there. Everybody that wants to be in the music industry but doesn't really have any skill or talent usually tries to edge their way in as a "manager." However, a good manager can be a core part of your team.

Managers are really multipurpose people. They should be doing anything and everything to better your band and advance your career. In the case of the band having a full support team, the manager should be coordinating with the rest of the team (label, publicist, booking agent, and band) to ensure that all actions taken on the band's behalf are beneficial, and properly executed. They should be part of the brainstorming committee, coming up with creative and unique ideas for positioning the band in the press and on tours, and acting as a liaison between the band and the record label. For the most part, labels are willing to compromise certain aspects of your artistry in hopes of selling more records, so ultimately, these people aren't beholden to your best interest. A manager on the other hand, should be 100% invested in making proper career choices, and keep you from making career gaffes.

For bands without an entire support structure, managers can fill the shoes of these vacancies. Before my band had a booking agent, our manager worked hand in hand with us to seek out and negotiate our way onto bigger tours. When we were without a label, he drummed up interest and landed us offers to Fearless, Doghouse, Capitol, and a few smaller indies. He worked with our label to choose publicists that could best handle our band, he advised us on decision making, found us booking agents, negotiated our publishing contract, and came to our rescue when we had internal or external difficulties. They should be willing to take on any task, big or small. A lot of bands seem to think that once they have management, they can kick back and relax, but a manager is a team member, just like the other members of your band and staff. It's a group effort.

Lastly, any manager that believes in his artists won't take a penny from them until they're actually bringing in cash. If you're making $100 a show and he's haranguing you for his 12.5%, he's in it for the wrong reasons, and you probably shouldn't be in business together. If you're on the bottom floor, a good manager knows he is investing in your future, not in an immediate cash flow.

Hope this helps!

Let's keep those questions coming!

[foxchildsunday]

Hello Alex, I gotta say im impressed with your answers so far and has cleared alot up for me so first of all thanks very much.

Now to my question, (but im not sure if you will be able to help me because we are from Scotland so things might work a little differently here). I play in a band who are relatively unknown our first EP was recieved quite well and in our home town we are starting to get a few people turning up which is great. So far in the thread ive heard the term "booking agents and managers " thrown about alot and my question is how does a band get an essential addition like this. Do you have to search? Or when you reach a certain level of popularity will they come to you? And if this is the case how popular does a band have to be? We get people on myspace from time to time saying they can help (usally £1000 but we will contact EVERY radio station in the UK for only £500 JUST for YOU" im assuming this is more a scam rather than anything though as a little research on the web turns up poorly made shoddy websites. Im assuming myspace is probably not the way to go for management/booking agents.

[Alex_Burton]

Hello Alex, I gotta say im impressed with your answers so far and has cleared alot up for me so first of all thanks very much.

Now to my question, (but im not sure if you will be able to help me because we are from Scotland so things might work a little differently here). I play in a band who are relatively unknown our first EP was recieved quite well and in our home town we are starting to get a few people turning up which is great. So far in the thread ive heard the term "booking agents and managers " thrown about alot and my question is how does a band get an essential addition like this. Do you have to search? Or when you reach a certain level of popularity will they come to you? And if this is the case how popular does a band have to be? We get people on myspace from time to time saying they can help (usally £1000 but we will contact EVERY radio station in the UK for only £500 JUST for YOU" im assuming this is more a scam rather than anything though as a little research on the web turns up poorly made shoddy websites. Im assuming myspace is probably not the way to go for management/booking agents.

The pleasure is all mine. Glad to know people are getting something out of this.

Definitely steer clear of those people that are contacting you offering their services in exchange for money. They clearly have no idea of how the music industry works, but they have plenty of ideas on how to rip off unsuspecting musicians.

Here's the deal with booking agents and managers. Typically they find bands that they believe in that are early in their careers and invest their time and energy in growing the artist so as to develop a long term business relationship with them. For example, My Chemical Romance was picked up by Matt Galle for booking purposes when they had just released their record on Eyeball, and had nothing but a minimal local fan base. Matt worked hard getting them on any tour that made sense for them and the band and the agent grew together. Now My Chem is one of the biggest bands in the world and Matt is one of the most sought after agents around. The truth of the matter is that it doesn't necessarily matter how big you actually are. If the agent or manager believes in you, they'll work with you. However, your chances of attracting their attention are better if you're creating a buzz somewhere.

Some booking agents and managers will accept unsolicited demos, just like a record label does. If you want to take that route, find the individual agencies online and identify which agent or manager represents artists that have the most in common with what you play. Their site will usually tell you if they accept unsolicited materials or not. If they do, then send away!

I want to emphasize that a booking agent or manager is not the answer to all of your problems. Don't focus all your efforts on finding agents or managers if you don't have your shit together with your own band. Usually if you're making totally awesome music and developing a fan base and buzz, they will come to you. The best way to do that is to be as active as possible. Play as many shows as you can and kick ass doing it.

Regarding payment for booking agents and managers, it usually works like this: booking agents get a percentage (usually around 10%) of whatever guarantees they get for you at shows they book on your behalf. Managers typically get a percentage (usually 10-15%) of whatever income you make (i.e. album advances, signing bonuses, licensing deals, tour income, etc.). This percentage payment plan ensures that they only get paid if you get paid, and so they must work hard to get your band's cash flow into the black in order for them to see any actual money from you.

As I said in the last thread, the legit ones will generally work for you gratis or for minimal takes because they understand that as a developing artist you need money to stay afloat, and once you start bringing in the big bucks, they'll start taking their cut more regularly. It's the idea of a short term loss for long term financial gain. Anybody offering you booking or management services for a flat fee is probably full of shit, and they want to take your money without having any responsibility to deliver actual, measured results.

Did I cover everything?

[introduction]

how much does a band on the whole earn? Obviously, different bands would earn hugely varying amounts, but there are the really unknown bands who no one has ever heard of, the ones that are relatively well known in their scene, e.g. brand new, bright eyes, and the mammoth bands e.g. green day. I'm quite curious about this, so if you could clear this up, it'd be appreciated.

[Alex_Burton]

how much does a band on the whole earn? Obviously, different bands would earn hugely varying amounts, but there are the really unknown bands who no one has ever heard of, the ones that are relatively well known in their scene, e.g. brand new, bright eyes, and the mammoth bands e.g. green day. I'm quite curious about this, so if you could clear this up, it'd be appreciated.

It's really impossible to give a blanket answer to this. There's a number of things to factor in. Here's a little breakdown:

Income:
licensing, guarantees, sponsorships, tour buy ins, merch sales, signing bonus, album advances, and if you're lucky radio play and album sales.

Expenses:
Managers, booking agents, merch expenses, van, van maintenance, van insurance, bus rental, trailer, trailer maintenance, food, hotels, airfare, gas, shipping costs, paying down your advances, health issues, buying onto tours, and the million or so different things your label is charging back to your account (music video, publicist, recording budgets, fronted CDs, advertising, etc.). Then consider that many new bands have 360 deals, where they have to pay their label a percentage of everything they make.

As you can see, there are way more expenses than revenue streams. Some smaller, unknown bands can do really well financially just based on licensing. I remember a year ago or so when Capitol Records cleared house, one of the artists they kept was Morningwood. Morningwood had really shitty record sales, but they were able to license a good amount of Morningwood tracks, which brought in enough income to make them a profitable artist at the time.

Artists that are relatively well known in their scene can still make serious bank. I read somewhere that Death Cab for Cutie made almost $6 million last year. I'm not saying all niche bands like them are making that kind of bank, but you can do really well. I know a lot of bands that draw between 1000-2000 kids and a lot of them tell me they make school teacher salaries (think likw $35,000-$45,000) a year, each.

Bands that are superstars are making millions for the most part. If they tour regularly, like Green Day or U2, they're making a shit load in merch sales and guarantees every night. Then factor in the endorsements and crazy amount of licensing that those bands get to soundtracks, video games, etc. Additionally these are the guys that are making money from their album sales too. They don't have to worry about much.

Sometimes, for smaller bands or indie bands, what can seem like a lot of money, really isn't. In my band, I handled all of our finances and taxes. We weren't huge, but we could draw 100-500 kids in a lot of places around the country. I remember being so pumped that we were making over six figures a year, but then you factor in expenses and split up our net between the five of us and we were just able to get by. Forget about buying a car, getting married, starting a family, etc. This is why it's important to really support indie artists that you love. Go to their shows and buy their merch because that's where they get most of their income, and they need all the help they can get.

[introduction]

It's really impossible to give a blanket answer to this. There's a number of things to factor in. Here's a little breakdown:

Income:
licensing, guarantees, sponsorships, tour buy ins, merch sales, signing bonus, album advances, and if you're lucky radio play and album sales.

Expenses:
Managers, booking agents, merch expenses, van, van maintenance, van insurance, bus rental, trailer, trailer maintenance, food, hotels, airfare, gas, shipping costs, paying down your advances, health issues, buying onto tours, and the million or so different things your label is charging back to your account (music video, publicist, recording budgets, fronted CDs, advertising, etc.). Then consider that many new bands have 360 deals, where they have to pay their label a percentage of everything they make.

As you can see, there are way more expenses than revenue streams. Some smaller, unknown bands can do really well financially just based on licensing. I remember a year ago or so when Capitol Records cleared house, one of the artists they kept was Morningwood. Morningwood had really shitty record sales, but they were able to license a good amount of Morningwood tracks, which brought in enough income to make them a profitable artist at the time.

Artists that are relatively well known in their scene can still make serious bank. I read somewhere that Death Cab for Cutie made almost $6 million last year. I'm not saying all niche bands like them are making that kind of bank, but you can do really well. I know a lot of bands that draw between 1000-2000 kids and a lot of them tell me they make school teacher salaries (think likw $35,000-$45,000) a year, each.

Bands that are superstars are making millions for the most part. If they tour regularly, like Green Day or U2, they're making a shit load in merch sales and guarantees every night. Then factor in the endorsements and crazy amount of licensing that those bands get to soundtracks, video games, etc. Additionally these are the guys that are making money from their album sales too. They don't have to worry about much.

Sometimes, for smaller bands or indie bands, what can seem like a lot of money, really isn't. In my band, I handled all of our finances and taxes. We weren't huge, but we could draw 100-500 kids in a lot of places around the country. I remember being so pumped that we were making over six figures a year, but then you factor in expenses and split up our net between the five of us and we were just able to get by. Forget about buying a car, getting married, starting a family, etc. This is why it's important to really support indie artists that you love. Go to their shows and buy their merch because that's where they get most of their income, and they need all the help they can get.

wow thanks for the response, it's given me quite a lot to think about.

[remoteCONTROL]

i heard david bazan is making $60k a year

[Alex_Burton]

i heard david bazan is making $60k a year

That wouldn't surprise me. As a solo artist you don't have to split your record advances or publishing, and if he's touring solo, he doesn't have to pay a band. However, when you think about somebody like David Bazan, who's been playing music professionally since 1995, 60k isn't really that much money. I remember when I was doing retail years ago, my manager was making just under 60k and she'd been working at the store for about 4 years. It's a tough life being a musician.

[Pencey Prep]

Are you the same kid from The NJ Scene.com?

[Alex_Burton]

Are you the same kid from The NJ Scene.com?

I post there and am friends with the owner, but I don't run it.

Were you really in Pencey Prep?

[TerrancePryor]

Velociraptors!

[Alex_Burton]

Velociraptors!

Correct!

[Barthelme_fan]

Alex, what's your take on sites like bandcamp,etc. that let artists put up their own music, I'm just curious of your perspective

[atmidd]

label makers.

[Alex_Burton]

Alex, what's your take on sites like bandcamp,etc. that let artists put up their own music, I'm just curious of your perspective

I think these sites are great. Bandcamp helps indie artists adjust to the changing music industry. You can put up your record for pay what you want, collect email addresses, and even set up downloads with promo codes so you can get your record some press. Additionally, you have a higher profit margin selling your MP3s over a site like Bandcamp than iTunes (that's not to say you shouldn't get your tracks on iTunes, just pointing out another perk).

Anything that serves to help artists define their space and compete in an industry like this one is good in my book so long as it doesn't take advantage of artists. From an independent standpoint, it's all about leveling the playing field between majors and musicians, and I think sites like Bandcamp help with that approach.

[Barthelme_fan]

thank you

[aresnirvana]

Awesome advice

[sinktylersink]

Another question that popped into my head today: How does an indie label work?

I guess the main thing that I'm wondering is wiith the recent news that EMI reported a $2.4 billion loss (making it clear that major labels aren't doing so well), how are indie labels doing by comparison? What is the staff of an indie label like (I'm guessing small with workers performing a variety of functions) and are indie labels actually generating any profits? This might be a little too specific, but about how much does an indie label shell out for a band's CD (with recording, mixing, mastering, marketing, printing CD's, etc.) and how many units does your average indie label band sell (as in, is it enough that the label breaks even)? That's about it, thanks again for this awesome thread.

[Pencey Prep]

I post there and am friends with the owner, but I don't run it.

Were you really in Pencey Prep?

yes, guitar

[bassdrummer2333]

My band (Rose City Burial) is just getting started and we're planning on touring this summer. I say "just getting started" because this month we did some serious work. Getting promotional pictures done on Sunday, practice twice a week, recorded a 3-song demo, and getting a professional layout this month. We're planning on playing 2 local shows a month to prepare for a tour this summer. Our genre is a mixture of Pop-Punk and Hardcore. My question, how do we prepare for touring this summer and how do we set it up? We're from Buffalo.

[ModusPwnens]

This thread is incredible.

[Alex_Burton]

Another question that popped into my head today: How does an indie label work?

I guess the main thing that I'm wondering is wiith the recent news that EMI reported a $2.4 billion loss (making it clear that major labels aren't doing so well), how are indie labels doing by comparison? What is the staff of an indie label like (I'm guessing small with workers performing a variety of functions) and are indie labels actually generating any profits? This might be a little too specific, but about how much does an indie label shell out for a band's CD (with recording, mixing, mastering, marketing, printing CD's, etc.) and how many units does your average indie label band sell (as in, is it enough that the label breaks even)? That's about it, thanks again for this awesome thread.

Well, it's kind of hard to get into the specific numbers as that info isn't readily available from private companies, like an indie label. From my experience dealing with indies and majors (I've been signed to 3 different indies, had offers from 5, and had one offer from a major) indies are able to stay afloat in tough times for a couple of reasons:

1) For a lot of indies, running the label is as much out of a love and commitment to music as it is a job.
2) Indies aren't trying to operate on the major label budgets of the past, and they never have. Since they can't just afford to throw money at everything, they're forced to adapt quicker to new technologies and revenue streams.

Don't get me wrong, not all indies are thriving commerce machines raking in cash because of a moral foundation of a commitment to music. Look at Militia Group or Drive Thru, two formerly successful labels that spun off a few popular records and then tanked as they struggled to play catch up and repeat formulas that worked for them a decade ago.

Indies also tend to have smaller staffs. Obviously it depends on the label, but I know my last label had a full time staff of about 8 or 9 people, supplemented by a couple of interns. Usually some of the people pull double duty, which saves on the number of staff you have to hire. Usually these people have been involved in the scene for a long time or have a great ear for music, and don't require mega salaries, unlike at majors where the executive level positions come with fancy price tags (our former manager was offered a VP position at a major for $250k a year), and a lot of the people that aren't at the top may have gone to business school or gotten other valuable degrees that require higher salaries.

Indie budgets tend to be smaller too. I remember a music lawyer telling me that From First To Last took a $3 million deal from Capitol when they signed (the band and label parted ways before even releasing any material I'm pretty sure). You'd never see an advance like that in the indie world, and you certainly wouldn't see an indie drop a band after spending that much to get them in an effort to "cut their losses." In fact one reason that there hasn't been a follow up Paulson record is that our label couldn't afford our record advance of $30k for our second record.

Indies also cut costs on other things like music videos. My brother has shot videos for all sorts of bands like All Time Low, The Starting Line, Rx Bandits, Sky Eats Airplane, Haste the Day, our own Paulson video, etc., and those budgets usually hang out in the $7k-$12k range (sometimes less, but rarely more). They get videos done for this price by hiring younger directors that are trying to develop themselves and break into the industry, or have the connections to make videos that cheap. On the major label level, you couldn't find a director willing to film a band taking a shit for $10k.

I've also heard stories about majors signing bands in an effort to cannibalize them. By this I mean they've signed an artist with a particular sound and invested in them already, but here comes another similar artist that does it better, so the label signs them under the guise of wanting to promote the band, but in reality just wants to kill their careers so that they don't take away potential profits from the initial band they'd already invested in.

To answer your question about how much an indie label spends on a band, it can be hard to figure out because record labels can be deceptive with their bookkeeping. From my own personal experience, I've heard my last label estimate that they spent about $80k on my band total, which is nothing. This includes buying our last record from our former label, paying for us to record additional tracks for the rerelease, having the record remixed by a new mixer, shooting our video, and running some amount of PR, video campaign, and radio campaign, as well as a small amount of tour support. Nearly all of these are 100% recoupable by the label through record sales. Technically, we're supposed to pay that back from our royalties which is a fraction of what each record is sold for. The reality is that when the label is selling the record wholesale for $5-$7 a pop, they make back that $80,000 after 11,000-16,000 units are sold. However, since only a fraction of each sale counts towards our debt (to make it easy say, $1 a record), we'd have to sell 80,000 to be even on the books, even though after 80,000 record sales the label would've taken in $400,000-$560,000. This is part of why I always tell artists not to ever expect to see a dime from your actual record sales. As a band gets bigger and is selling that many records (which really isn't a lot in the music world), the label should be spending more money to capitalize on the band's popularity, but not all do. It all depends on who you're signed to. Labels like EVR and Epitaph do a great job and I'd point to them as some of the better run labels amongst indies and majors alike.

Phew! That's a lot of stuff. Sorry if I rambled. Hopefully it answers your questions!

[Alex_Burton]

My band (Rose City Burial) is just getting started and we're planning on touring this summer. I say "just getting started" because this month we did some serious work. Getting promotional pictures done on Sunday, practice twice a week, recorded a 3-song demo, and getting a professional layout this month. We're planning on playing 2 local shows a month to prepare for a tour this summer. Our genre is a mixture of Pop-Punk and Hardcore. My question, how do we prepare for touring this summer and how do we set it up? We're from Buffalo.

How do you prepare? You just have to be awesome. Like really fucking awesome. Look at what you're doing and look at what your peers are doing and see how you stack up. Are your songs better? Are you tighter live? Do you put on a better show? Ask yourself those questions and adjust what you're doing so that you can effectively say that you're doing what you're doing better than anyone else at your level. Being "good" or "pretty good" doesn't matter. If you're not pushing yourself to be the absolute best, then what's the point?

That being said, if you're just practicing in some one's basement, it's worth shelling out the $20 an hour to rent a rehearsal space where you can practice on a good sounding PA, in an environment that's more like what you may see on the road. When planning your route, I'd also suggest that you don't overextend yourself. There's not point in touring out to California if you can't get back out there 2 months later. Tour heavily in a region that you can hit up semi regularly. From Buffalo I'd say you have plenty of those markets within reach: Rochester, Syracuse, Albany, Plattsburgh, Poughkeepsie, Hartford, Boston, Springfield, Providence, NJ, NYC, Long Island, Philly, Cleveland, Akron, Pittsburgh, Allentown, Baltimore, Chicago, Cincinnati, Columbus, Detroit, Indianapolis, Grand Rapids, Chicago, Louisville, Toronto, Oshawa, London, Peterborough, Montreal, VT, NH, ME. If you hit all of those markets (which you could do if you routed it properly), you'd be on the road for over a month, and you could hit any one of them individually on a weekend or during spring break or whatever.

I've posted a few things on my blog to give some pointers on touring, so take a look at the following as I think you'll find them helpful:

"How Do I Book a Tour With Guarantees?"
http://www.getfreshusa.com/post/268132846/ask-me-anything-how-do-i-book-a-tour-with-guarantees#disqus_thread

"7 Tips to Prevent Van Theft On Tour"
http://www.getfreshusa.com/post/250943873/7-tips-to-prevent-van-theft-on-tour#disqus_thread

"How the iPhone Makes Touring Easier"
http://www.getfreshusa.com/post/206744925/how-the-iphone-makes-touring-easier#disqus_thread


I hope this helps!

[sinktylersink]

Phew! That's a lot of stuff. Sorry if I rambled. Hopefully it answers your questions!

Way more than I expected it to! Thanks a lot.

[SLoT]

This may have been covered already, but any pointers on putting together a decent press kit? Whether it be digital or physical.

[shawnmalloy]

My immediate goal is to sell records. I'm pretty much a machine when it comes to writing and recording songs, meaning I'm capable of releasing 4 albums a year. I have my first of 3 currently for sale on cdbaby and itunes. With the tracks that are up on myspace and such sites, I've received good reviews across the board. I'm running into several problems though. I play all the instruments on the recordings, so until I find people to learn the songs, I can't play live. And people just don't buy music like they used to. With p2p and torrent downloading, people have gotten out of the habit of purchasing music. I can't even get my friends to buy my record, and these people have supported my musical endeavors for years. I'm hooked up on every networking site known to man. I'm interacting with total strangers. I've connected with 100s of people but I've only sold one record to date. What can someone like me that doesn't have a live band, do to promote my digital releases? Eventually I'd like to be able to get by financially on record sales alone, even if that's only 20k a year. Is that even feasible in the digital download age?

[Alex_Burton]

This may have been covered already, but any pointers on putting together a decent press kit? Whether it be digital or physical.

Hey dude,

Yeah I covered this one a little ways back. Here's the link to it: http://www.getfreshusa.com/post/274838064/ask-me-anything-how-do-i-make-a-proper-press-kit#disqus_thread

let me know if you have any more questions!

[SLoT]

Hey dude,

Yeah I covered this one a little ways back. Here's the link to it: http://www.getfreshusa.com/post/274838064/ask-me-anything-how-do-i-make-a-proper-press-kit#disqus_thread

let me know if you have any more questions!
Thanks a bunch Alex. I appreciate it.

[Alex_Burton]

My immediate goal is to sell records. I'm pretty much a machine when it comes to writing and recording songs, meaning I'm capable of releasing 4 albums a year. I have my first of 3 currently for sale on cdbaby and itunes. With the tracks that are up on myspace and such sites, I've received good reviews across the board. I'm running into several problems though. I play all the instruments on the recordings, so until I find people to learn the songs, I can't play live. And people just don't buy music like they used to. With p2p and torrent downloading, people have gotten out of the habit of purchasing music. I can't even get my friends to buy my record, and these people have supported my musical endeavors for years. I'm hooked up on every networking site known to man. I'm interacting with total strangers. I've connected with 100s of people but I've only sold one record to date. What can someone like me that doesn't have a live band, do to promote my digital releases? Eventually I'd like to be able to get by financially on record sales alone, even if that's only 20k a year. Is that even feasible in the digital download age?

I don't want to say it's impossible, but it's pretty much impossible. The artists that have been able to make a living without touring are few and far between. And I mean REALLY far between. Now that it's so much easier to make and market your own music, bedroom projects are popping up all over the place, but most of them never really go anywhere without the live element. Heck, even musicians on labels that do tour don't make any money off record sales. Neither do labels for that matter. I'd wager that every artist out there would say their primary source of revenue comes from playing shows and selling merch.

Here's the main problem with trying to make a living off of selling records: it's just bad business. Businesses need to explore as many revenue streams as possible in order to grow, expand, and develop their brands. Clearly you're having trouble forming a band, which I'm sure every musician can identify with, but I'd strongly urge you to not give up on that. I'd also suggest you keep promoting, getting reviews, and circulating mp3s.

That being said, you CAN sell records if you have music that resonates with people. It's just a matter of coming up with a creative way of doing it. Think outside the box for this one. No one buys records, so sell them something unique that includes your record as part of the package. Recently many bands have been making custom USB drives loaded with their entire catalogs, or providing tiered pricing systems that range from the basic record to deluxe versions that include other merch, exclusive items, autographs, etc. However these groups all feature a live element as well, and that's because music is as much about remembering the live experience as it is songs. This is why artists like Pearl Jam and The Pixies have made a killing by recording every night of their tours and selling the live shows via their websites.

You can also try and land a publishing deal, which can be decently lucrative. Some indie publishers like Songs Publishing (http://www.songspub.com/) will take on artists without a label. Now this doesn't sell you records, but it gets your music placed in TV shows, movies, video games, etc., and signing a publishing deal involves you getting an advance on those placements.

Unfortunately your question of how to sell records is one that everyone in the industry is trying to answer, but no one's been able to effectively answer it. You can make money as an independent musician, but performing live is pretty crucial.

[we are cured]

how would you go about finding a decent rehearsal space? a friend and i are starting a project and we'd like to have a place we can play at any given time. we obviously don't want to overpay for something we don't need, but we do think it's worth it to put a little bit of cash into renting a space that would be ours, or at the very least shared. do you have any recommendations?

[Alex_Burton]

how would you go about finding a decent rehearsal space? a friend and i are starting a project and we'd like to have a place we can play at any given time. we obviously don't want to overpay for something we don't need, but we do think it's worth it to put a little bit of cash into renting a space that would be ours, or at the very least shared. do you have any recommendations?

It's definitely great to have a regular place to practice whenever you want. I don't live in Old Bridge though so I don't know what's around you. How do you find one? www.google.com

A quick search of "rehearsal spaces NJ" yields a bunch of results:

www.hellhoundstudios.com
networkmusicstudios.com
www.theblackbirdstudio.com
www.backstagerehearsal.com
www.metromusic.org
www.americanoneproductions.com
www.frankensound.com
www.redbankrehearsal.com
www.aariusstudios.com

Do a search and find one that meets your budget and your needs.

[we are cured]

thanks for the response - i already tried google and what you get are those rental per hour places. i'm looking for our own spot.

[Alex_Burton]

thanks for the response - i already tried google and what you get are those rental per hour places. i'm looking for our own spot.

Gotcha. The only one I know of in Jersey, is by me in East Rutherford, but it looks like they're no longer in business. NJ is a big state though, I'm sure you can find something that meets your needs, but then again maybe there aren't any in your area. Sorry I couldn't help on this one!

[DSmolken]

Information like this is extremely useful. A lot of people in the industry know this stuff but are not willing to talk about it, especially not in public.

Yeah, selling records without playing live is very tough. It worked for me for a few years because I was able to sell them to fans in rich countries and make them very cheap, so even selling 1000-2000 copies of something was a nice boost to my income, but now even that is drying up and I'm moving on to a different way of doing business.

[flash111111111]

Here it is, straight from the blog (Get Fresh USA (http://www.getfreshusa.com))

Let’s face it guys, the notion of a traditional press kit is dated. Most people don’t want physical mail piling up in their offices, and the internet has made discovering new music easier than ever before. There are also many different sources where you would traditionally send a press kit: booking agents, record labels, press outlets, management, festival coordinators, etc. Since all of these recipients provide different services and value different qualities, you would want to emphasize different attributes when pitching to each of them.

I would like to stop here and note a recent article by our friends at Musformation that discusses the folly of chasing after record labels. Read it here (http://musformation.com/2009/12/getting-signed-be-too-proud-to-beg.html).

Sending unsolicited press kits to those that don’t accept them is quick way to get your package in the trash. Before sending anything to anybody, research the outlet and find out how they prefer to be contacted. Usually they will indicate what information they want from you and the method in which they want to receive it. This saves them time and prevents you from wasting your hard work.

I’ve found the best way to create an all-encompassing pitch is to create a Social Media Press Release (SMPR). SMPR’s contain all the relevant talking points of a traditional press kit, along with links to various relevant forms of media and social bookmarking. While many are using EPK’s (Electronic Press Kits) these days, I prefer the SMPR as it’s more interactive and comprehensive. Two great leaders in communications, FutureWorks and Shift Communications, have provided templates for creating SMPR’s. Use these templates to create a thorough, comprehensive, organized, and impressive presentation of your band. They are linked below. Open them, right click, and save. Insert your relevant information, mp3s, and video, along with all pertinent information. Don’t say I never gave you nothin!

SHIFT COMMUNICATIONS SMPR TEMPLATE (http://www.shiftcomm.com/downloads/smprtemplate.pdf)

FUTURE WORKS SMPR TEMPLATE (http://www.future-works.com/about/agency_news/files/How%20To%20Write%20SMPRs%20by%20Bri an%20Solis.pdf)


EPK's and SMPr's are definitely better than your traditional press kit....that being said I think press kits are pretty worthless considering the fact that every single band has a myspace page with music, tour dates, contact info etc... that serves the exact same purpose. 99% of the music business people I work with never look at press kits, only myspace pages and if a band sends them a press kit or EPK they instantly disregard it.

Going for the hard sell never works.

[Alex_Burton]

EPK's and SMPr's are definitely better than your traditional press kit....that being said I think press kits are pretty worthless considering the fact that every single band has a myspace page with music, tour dates, contact info etc... that serves the exact same purpose. 99% of the music business people I work with never look at press kits, only myspace pages and if a band sends them a press kit or EPK they instantly disregard it.

Going for the hard sell never works.

In a lot of instances you're right. It really all depends on who you're pitching and what their preferences are. It's a good idea to know what your target is looking for before bombarding them with anything.

[insanemoshlord]

yew

[sobersik89]

What is your input on Social Media Marketing in the music industry?

[Alex_Burton]

What is your input on Social Media Marketing in the music industry?

Hey, sorry it took me a minute to reply. I've been traveling the last few weeks.

Anyway, what specifically do you want to know? If you're just looking for my general thoughts on it, I can tell you that it's not just useful, it's essential. The thing about social media is that everyone is involved in it and information transfers super fast, so fans are getting more content from artists than ever before, and they're getting it and processing it faster. In order to stay competitive, you have to be as active as everyone else.

The key to doing this successfully, is to develop your own unique ways of using social media and using them effectively. There are a million different social media sites out there, so isolate the most important ones and focus on maximizing those. Spreading yourself too thin will just dilute your message and create a half-assed internet presence that will just fade into the background.

A lot of people treat social media channels like a press outlet, blasting press releases at fans constantly. Truth be told, this just turns into white noise. Social Media is called "social" for a reason. It's not a one way street, it's a conversation; a dialog. Find interesting ways to engage your fans/peers, and don't talk at them, but talk with them.

Does this answer your question? If not, let me know and I'll give you more detail and/or answers to more specific questions.

[ablueskytragedy]

I'm in a band from North Jersey (we're all big Paulson fans btw, haha!) and we think we have a lot of drive and talent. A lot of the stuff we do is DIY, and we take pride in it, but there's a point where we feel we want to take the next step. We have decent quality recordings, and we definitely have our shit together. We want to start playing with bigger bands, getting more paying shows, and hopefully, getting label attention. We think these are feasible goals, but we don't really know where to begin with taking the next step. Do we try to get a management company to support us? Do we just send copies of our EP out to every label that exists?

[Rid Ickulous]

My immediate goal is to sell records. I'm pretty much a machine when it comes to writing and recording songs, meaning I'm capable of releasing 4 albums a year. I have my first of 3 currently for sale on cdbaby and itunes. With the tracks that are up on myspace and such sites, I've received good reviews across the board. I'm running into several problems though. I play all the instruments on the recordings, so until I find people to learn the songs, I can't play live. And people just don't buy music like they used to. With p2p and torrent downloading, people have gotten out of the habit of purchasing music. I can't even get my friends to buy my record, and these people have supported my musical endeavors for years. I'm hooked up on every networking site known to man. I'm interacting with total strangers. I've connected with 100s of people but I've only sold one record to date. What can someone like me that doesn't have a live band, do to promote my digital releases? Eventually I'd like to be able to get by financially on record sales alone, even if that's only 20k a year. Is that even feasible in the digital download age?

Build something around your musical project.

People like to say that you "can't go the NIN/Radiohead route unless you're a "legendary" recording act", but when I think of their route there's other things that comes to mind than just free downloads. Both acts have built something around their band. There's more to it than just the music and the band members. Use Web 2.0 functionality to build something around your music. Connect with other artists who are on the same page as you and assemble a team to take your whole act to the next level.

When people find your music and see a full, thought-provoking package they're much more likely to jump on your bandwagon - just make sure you've got the tunes to back it up!

[Burn_Burn_Burn]

I've always felt like I'm in a musically dead community. I live in Dallas, Texas, and am about to turn 18. I have been looking for band members, but for some reason have been hitting so many obstacles just finding like-minded people who want to play music with me. How do I find band members?

[sobersik89]

That just about sums it up - thanks a lot man appreciate the input

[PerfectChaos337]

I've always felt like I'm in a musically dead community. I live in Dallas, Texas, and am about to turn 18. I have been looking for band members, but for some reason have been hitting so many obstacles just finding like-minded people who want to play music with me. How do I find band members?

I have the same problem, except I live on Long Island.

[Burn_Burn_Burn]

I have the same problem, except I live on Long Island.

Um yeah..that's not a musically dead community.
Totally off subject though..did you see Brand New / GJ / etc. at Nassau at that huge show they did?

[KrispyKakes]

do you know a FOH engineer looking to go on the road? PM me if you do. Must be in Texas

[Alex_Burton]

I've always felt like I'm in a musically dead community. I live in Dallas, Texas, and am about to turn 18. I have been looking for band members, but for some reason have been hitting so many obstacles just finding like-minded people who want to play music with me. How do I find band members?

Unfortunately, this isn't really something I can give you a concrete answer on. I can tell you that having played in Dallas and the surrounding area many many times, that it's not musically dead. There's a lot of people playing music (I know a bunch of them!), but connecting with the right ones is a matter of chemistry that can't be dictated.

If you want to be really proactive about it, put out feelers on all of your social networks. Don't be afraid of meeting strangers on Craigslist. Go to shows of bands you like and pass out fliers (that's a pretty easy way to reach your target audience of like minded people). If you're having trouble looking in the actual city of Dallas, brand out into the surrounding areas like Denton, Plano, etc. Make as much noise as you can and eventually you'll connect with some one, but there's no tried and true method to it.

Good luck!

[Alex_Burton]

do you know a FOH engineer looking to go on the road? PM me if you do. Must be in Texas

I have a friend that ran sound for The Starting Line for years. I know he's looking for a new gig, but he's located in NC. If you're touring enough that you want your own FOH engineer, flying him out to the start of each tour shouldn't be a problem. But that's your call. I can put you in touch if you're interested. Otherwise, good luck!

[Alex_Burton]

I'm in a band from North Jersey (we're all big Paulson fans btw, haha!) and we think we have a lot of drive and talent. A lot of the stuff we do is DIY, and we take pride in it, but there's a point where we feel we want to take the next step. We have decent quality recordings, and we definitely have our shit together. We want to start playing with bigger bands, getting more paying shows, and hopefully, getting label attention. We think these are feasible goals, but we don't really know where to begin with taking the next step. Do we try to get a management company to support us? Do we just send copies of our EP out to every label that exists?

Hey, awesome! Thanks! It's always nice to hear that some one likes what you do!

Well it sounds like you guys are working hard, but I can't really tell you what the next step should be without more info. What's your draw? How often are you playing and where? What are the selling points for your band? Do you tour? Do you have organized social networks? Are you incentivizing your fan base to work for you? Do you have a video?

Let's be honest. This industry is about money. If you want to play with bigger bands and get label attention and get paid, you need to demonstrate value. Show people that you are worth their time and energy and they will want to work with you. When Paulson was first starting out, I'd book shows for touring bands or regional bands with buzz and then stick my band on the bill as direct support. This way I'd make sure we had the best time slot, and since it was my show, I controlled the money and paid my band whatever I wanted. It's extra work, but if you're hungry enough you won't mind the risks.

Another good way to get in front of crowds is to pitch your record release show to promoters. They know that a record release tends to be a bigger deal, and that bands are more likely to self-promote a special event like that, and are usually more willing to put you in opening slots for better shows because of this.

As far as management and labels go, I don't think that sending your record to them will really make a difference. Sure, they say they accept unsolicited demos, but the truth is that not a lot of bands get picked up that way. If you're ready to be represented, they will find you. Work on making your songs better, make your live show unforgettable. If you're bringing out kids and people are talking about you, labels and management will come. Make your music easily available and get people sharing it.

There's a whole lot of information and tips throughout this thread and my blog, on individual things you can do to bolster your status and streamline your operation. I'd suggest going back and browsing that stuff. I could go for days on the subject, so getting it all into one post is impossible.

[Burn_Burn_Burn]

Unfortunately, this isn't really something I can give you a concrete answer on. I can tell you that having played in Dallas and the surrounding area many many times, that it's not musically dead. There's a lot of people playing music (I know a bunch of them!), but connecting with the right ones is a matter of chemistry that can't be dictated.

If you want to be really proactive about it, put out feelers on all of your social networks. Don't be afraid of meeting strangers on Craigslist. Go to shows of bands you like and pass out fliers (that's a pretty easy way to reach your target audience of like minded people). If you're having trouble looking in the actual city of Dallas, brand out into the surrounding areas like Denton, Plano, etc. Make as much noise as you can and eventually you'll connect with some one, but there's no tried and true method to it.

Good luck!

Thanks, man..I've been trying that, and I'll keep on keeping on.

Also, just picked up All at Once from Amazon and it is killing.
Amazing, amazing work on that bass guitar.

[Alex_Burton]

Thanks, man..I've been trying that, and I'll keep on keeping on.

Also, just picked up All at Once from Amazon and it is killing.
Amazing, amazing work on that bass guitar.

Thanks man! Glad you dig!

[ablueskytragedy]

Hey, awesome! Thanks! It's always nice to hear that some one likes what you do!

Well it sounds like you guys are working hard, but I can't really tell you what the next step should be without more info. What's your draw? How often are you playing and where? What are the selling points for your band? Do you tour? Do you have organized social networks? Are you incentivizing your fan base to work for you? Do you have a video?

Let's be honest. This industry is about money. If you want to play with bigger bands and get label attention and get paid, you need to demonstrate value. Show people that you are worth their time and energy and they will want to work with you. When Paulson was first starting out, I'd book shows for touring bands or regional bands with buzz and then stick my band on the bill as direct support. This way I'd make sure we had the best time slot, and since it was my show, I controlled the money and paid my band whatever I wanted. It's extra work, but if you're hungry enough you won't mind the risks.

Another good way to get in front of crowds is to pitch your record release show to promoters. They know that a record release tends to be a bigger deal, and that bands are more likely to self-promote a special event like that, and are usually more willing to put you in opening slots for better shows because of this.

As far as management and labels go, I don't think that sending your record to them will really make a difference. Sure, they say they accept unsolicited demos, but the truth is that not a lot of bands get picked up that way. If you're ready to be represented, they will find you. Work on making your songs better, make your live show unforgettable. If you're bringing out kids and people are talking about you, labels and management will come. Make your music easily available and get people sharing it.

There's a whole lot of information and tips throughout this thread and my blog, on individual things you can do to bolster your status and streamline your operation. I'd suggest going back and browsing that stuff. I could go for days on the subject, so getting it all into one post is impossible.

Haha yeah looking back on my first post I realized how little information I gave you, my bad. We're all repping Bergen County (Waldwick and Ramsey specifically). Well we're all fairly young, ranging from 16-18 so it's difficult to tour, though we are planning a short east coast tour this summer. Our name is StandStill (our MySpace link is in my signature). The songs we have up now have kind of a Yellowcard vibe to them, but the new stuff (which we're recording with The Rat from I Am The Avalanche), has a more experimental, almost funky feel to it, albeit it is still very alt rock based.

We have enough material for a full length written, and once we get it out there we're hoping to play some more shows. The biggest shows we've played have been at The School of Rock in South Hackensack. We've played with The Click Five, and have a show coming up there with Amber Pacific and Halifax. Other than that, we've played with bands like Tokyo Rose, the Morning Of, and The Dangerous Summer. I'd say we're fairly popular for a local band, though that isn't really saying much anymore, seeing how the current NJ scene is flooded with crappy metal more recently haha. But yeah, we've sold up to 100 tickets for a show, and though it's a tedious and stressful task, we can definitely get the job done.

Being the lead singer, I think our live show is the most important aspect of the band for me. Crowd participation is generally very good at our shows, mainly because I think I have a little bit of ADHD and tend to swing the mic around and yell in peoples faces a lot haha.

That's about it, I mean we're definitely working hard and I'd say we have a leg up for sure seeing as we've been playing since we were in Junior High. I'm just looking to get our stuff noticed on a much broader spectrum

[BornUnderPunches]

Did you learn all this stuff from experience? How did you obtain all of this info.? And (Not to put your blog down because it's incredible) do you know if there are any good books that someone could have with them at all times?

[Alex_Burton]

Haha yeah looking back on my first post I realized how little information I gave you, my bad. We're all repping Bergen County (Waldwick and Ramsey specifically). Well we're all fairly young, ranging from 16-18 so it's difficult to tour, though we are planning a short east coast tour this summer. Our name is StandStill (our MySpace link is in my signature). The songs we have up now have kind of a Yellowcard vibe to them, but the new stuff (which we're recording with The Rat from I Am The Avalanche), has a more experimental, almost funky feel to it, albeit it is still very alt rock based.

We have enough material for a full length written, and once we get it out there we're hoping to play some more shows. The biggest shows we've played have been at The School of Rock in South Hackensack. We've played with The Click Five, and have a show coming up there with Amber Pacific and Halifax. Other than that, we've played with bands like Tokyo Rose, the Morning Of, and The Dangerous Summer. I'd say we're fairly popular for a local band, though that isn't really saying much anymore, seeing how the current NJ scene is flooded with crappy metal more recently haha. But yeah, we've sold up to 100 tickets for a show, and though it's a tedious and stressful task, we can definitely get the job done.

Being the lead singer, I think our live show is the most important aspect of the band for me. Crowd participation is generally very good at our shows, mainly because I think I have a little bit of ADHD and tend to swing the mic around and yell in peoples faces a lot haha.

That's about it, I mean we're definitely working hard and I'd say we have a leg up for sure seeing as we've been playing since we were in Junior High. I'm just looking to get our stuff noticed on a much broader spectrum

Well it sounds like you're moving in the right direction. Do you guys play out in places other than NJ? I'd recommend spending your weekends playing regionally as there are tons of markets you can reach in just a short drive. If you start to have pull in several markets, as opposed to just one, you'll definitely get that attention you're looking for.

I'd also point out that there's a difference between drawing 100 kids and selling 100 tickets. If you're actually drawing 100 kids at School of Rock, try using that pull to leverage some shows in NYC, or smaller NJ clubs like Maxwells. You'll do a much better job of turning heads by packing out a small club as opposed to only partially filling a larger one.

[Alex_Burton]

Did you learn all this stuff from experience? How did you obtain all of this info.? And (Not to put your blog down because it's incredible) do you know if there are any good books that someone could have with them at all times?

I learned this all from experience. Throughout my career we made some good decisions and some bad decisions, and while we had managers and A&R people and folks that were supposed to be looking out for us, we were led into some pretty ridiculous directions. So I'm happy to share the things that I've learned in hopes that I might be able to answer some questions for people that aren't sure what to do or where to go. I always wished I'd had that.

As far as books go? I've never read an industry guide or manual that wasn't total bullshit, unfortunately.

[MaydayU]

Where would one go about working with a booking agent? Do you have any suggestions? I'm booking my bands own shows but I feel like I need help.

[maps1488]

What are good ideas to launch promotions for a new CD and how does a young band go about booking a tour?

[Alex_Burton]

Where would one go about working with a booking agent? Do you have any suggestions? I'm booking my bands own shows but I feel like I need help.

Good luck! Seriously, to get a good booking agent you need good luck or someone that can network on your behalf. I'm a firm believer in working around the industry as much as possible, but when it comes to getting the tours you really want/need, you need a great booking agent, and they are in the highest demand. Of any of the things bands want - record labels, managers, distribution, etc. - the thing that can make the biggest difference in your career is a booking agent.

Look at Matt Galle, formerly of Ellis Industries and now of Paradigm. He picked up My Chemical Romance when they were nothing, just because he loved the band. Their success is due in large part to Galle. You can write the best record in the world, but if no one hears it, it doesn't matter. Booking agents will get you in front of the crowds you need in order to be heard, but as with most things in business, you need to demonstrate value. If you're filling rooms in a dozen markets or have significant hype on a site like AP.net or Pitchfork, those booking agents will find you.

But if you're not at that level, you're better off booking yourself. If you're bringing in $100 a night opening a tour, you probably can't pay yourself and your band much, let alone the booking agent that wants to skim off 10%.

Instead of focusing on getting an agent or a manager or a label, focus on making your band the best fucking band in town. Once you're outshining your peers, those industry folks you're looking for will come to you. Concentrate on writing the best songs, being the tightest band, and putting on the best show - those are the assets that will get you ahead, ultimately.

It's definitely daunting being the dude that books your own band's tours. I booked Paulson tours for years before we had a following or agent of our own, and I didn't really have a life during that time. I think I put together some decent tips on booking a great tour in this thread on my blog:

http://www.getfreshusa.com/post/268132846/ask-me-anything-how-do-i-book-a-tour-with-guarantees

Check it out. I hope it helps!

[Sean Rizzo]

Check it out. I hope it helps!
Explain to me how this mindrape of a situation occurs. My thoughts on it are expressed in the thread itself, so please read through. :wave:

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?t=1733722

I don't know a whole lot about the industry, but a situation like this is just retarded.

[Alex_Burton]

What are good ideas to launch promotions for a new CD and how does a young band go about booking a tour?

OH jeez, where to begin?!

To launch a CD... I could seriously write a book. Here's a few ideas to try:

1) Try partnering with a great blog to give away your record as a free download. This could be the web edition of your local paper or one of the top 100 Hype Machine blogs. Unfortunately, you've got to have the chops to run with this crowd. Hopefully your band is awesome!

2) Give your record away. Have a record release show that you headline or where you open for a bigger band. Give away a free copy of your record to everyone that buys a ticket. Prince did this with his last album, and managed to have it count for his soundscan numbers before Nielsen banned that method.

3) Engage your fans. Flying Lotus made an augmented reality app that allowed you to manipulate his songs by hand via your webcam. AFI had a treasure hunt a few years back. Lots of bands tempt fans by offering free downloads after they gain X amount of followers. The point is to find something your fans will be able to engage in and be drawn to regardless of the music. Tacking on your songs and tying your name to it are key, but the concept has to hold its own.

4) Try tweet for a track or giving away your record for pay-what-you-want on bandcamp. If you're good, you'll get downloads and emails.

5) Be fucking awesome. Seriously. I can't stress this enough. So much of your success depends on putting thought, effort, and attention to detail into your music. If you're just ripping off your favorite bands, people will notice and not give a shit. If you're being original and creating new ideas and pushing boundaries, you will turn heads.

How do you book a tour? With hard work and determination. It'll take a while, but don't get discouraged. First, read this thread on my blog:

http://www.getfreshusa.com/post/268132846/ask-me-anything-how-do-i-book-a-tour-with-guarantees

Then visit these sites for good contacts:

http://www.byofl.org
http://www.indieonthemove.com/
http://www.killertours.com/home/

There's also a great thread on AP.net about regional venues and independent promoters. Read it here:

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?t=1333192

Good luck!

[Alex_Burton]

Explain to me how this mindrape of a situation occurs. My thoughts on it are expressed in the thread itself, so please read through. :wave:

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?t=1733722

I don't know a whole lot about the industry, but a situation like this is just retarded.

This happens because most labels don't give a shit about fans, music, art, etc. They're businesses and they care about their bottom line. Drive Thru are notorious bullies. I've known the people at that label for over a decade, and they changed a lot as they became more successful.

Basically the deal is this: Drive Thru is holding whatever bands they can hostage in hopes that someone will buy out their contracts. They don't care about seeing another IATA record, they care about someone giving them $50,000 for the band's contract. Since it doesn't matter to them either way what happens to the band, they might as well hold out for the loot.

However, a lot of bands have been getting out of their contracts with Drive Thru because the contracts generally have limits and caveats that allow for the band's release under certain terms. For example, with my last record deal, once we delivered a new record to the label, the label had one year from that date to decide if they'd release the album. Most contracts have stipulations like this, but since I haven't seen the IATA contract, I can't say what the terms are, but I'd be willing to bet that DTR is in breach of contract and that IATA could get out of their deal with a proper lawyer.

I know of other DTR bands that have been working on getting out of their deals. It's definitely possible.

This is part of why I always stress that bands should work as hard as they can to work without labels. There are some great ones out there (Equal Vision, Beggars Group, etc.), but a majority of them will fuck you if it means they make a buck (or cut their losses).

[Sean Rizzo]

This happens because most labels don't give a ****** about fans, music, art, etc. They're businesses and they care about their bottom line. Drive Thru are notorious bullies. I've known the people at that label for over a decade, and they changed a lot as they became more successful.

Basically the deal is this: Drive Thru is holding whatever bands they can hostage in hopes that someone will buy out their contracts. They don't care about seeing another IATA record, they care about someone giving them $50,000 for the band's contract. Since it doesn't matter to them either way what happens to the band, they might as well hold out for the loot.

However, a lot of bands have been getting out of their contracts with Drive Thru because the contracts generally have limits and caveats that allow for the band's release under certain terms. For example, with my last record deal, once we delivered a new record to the label, the label had one year from that date to decide if they'd release the album. Most contracts have stipulations like this, but since I haven't seen the IATA contract, I can't say what the terms are, but I'd be willing to bet that DTR is in breach of contract and that IATA could get out of their deal with a proper lawyer.

I know of other DTR bands that have been working on getting out of their deals. It's definitely possible.

This is part of why I always stress that bands should work as hard as they can to work without labels. There are some great ones out there (Equal Vision, Beggars Group, etc.), but a majority of them will ****** you if it means they make a buck (or cut their losses).
That helps a lot, haha. I'm gonna quote this over to that thread for other people to read. Thanks!

[razzman3]

What is the best way to prepare for a tour financially. All of the booking and everything I can cover, but how do you get started to have to money to do it?

[Alex_Burton]

What is the best way to prepare for a tour financially. All of the booking and everything I can cover, but how do you get started to have to money to do it?

I'm not sure I understand that question, but let me give it a shot.

A tour should be paying for itself in the guarantees that you get for playing every night, and your merch sales. Make sure you route your tour smartly so that your shows aren't too far apart. Calculate your mileage and figure out how much it will cost to get to each show, and to drive the tour overall. This will help you estimate your expenses and ensure you can pay for the whole thing. It'll also tell you how much you can afford to pay out in per diems, spend on hotels, food, booze, etc.

Is this the kind of answer you're looking for or am I missing something?

[jnobel]

Alex, you should update your blog more with things of this nature. (assuming that's what the blog is for)

When I first subscribed to your RSS there was great content, but it seems like lately all your posts have been music recommendations.

[PerfectChaos337]

Hey, I have a question... What's the general opinion of bands getting management and booking agents when they start out and after doing a few tours? Here on long island a lot of the popular bands have management, but I can't tell if they get the opportunities that they do because they have a manager or if everyone just loves their band. Does it make touring easier with management and booking right off the bat? I guess i'm just asking for the general opinion and whether or not its worth it to get into these kind of business agreements early on in a bands career.

[Alex_Burton]

Alex, you should update your blog more with things of this nature. (assuming that's what the blog is for)

When I first subscribed to your RSS there was great content, but it seems like lately all your posts have been music recommendations.

Agreed! I want to do more of that stuff, and that was the original intent of the blog. At a certain point I started running short on ideas for lists, and I was traveling a lot for my new job. I think I'm going to go back through this thread and do longer, more thought out answers and post them to the blog.

I think I needed some one to call me out on it hahaha thanks!

[Alex_Burton]

Hey, I have a question... What's the general opinion of bands getting management and booking agents when they start out and after doing a few tours? Here on long island a lot of the popular bands have management, but I can't tell if they get the opportunities that they do because they have a manager or if everyone just loves their band. Does it make touring easier with management and booking right off the bat? I guess i'm just asking for the general opinion and whether or not its worth it to get into these kind of business agreements early on in a bands career.

Personally, I like when bands cut their teeth and learn to do shit on their own before they get success. You learn a LOT doing things that way.

But whether or not you SHOULD get involved with these people all depends on who these people are. If Andrew Ellis comes to you and wants to book your band, you have to be a crazy person to say no, regardless of what level you're at. However, there are a lot of people out there that want to be part of the industry, that really have no idea about what they're doing or the proper way to go about things. If you can separate the good from the bad, then work with anybody that will actually help you and treat you fairly.

It absolutely makes touring easier because these people (provided they're good at what they do), will get you on tours that you wouldn't be able to get otherwise, and hook you up with other opportunities that would be harder to obtain without leveraging their connections. Bands that everybody loves will get more opportunities because everybody loves them and they're moneymakers for concert promoters, but at the same time, if they're not super loved and are still getting opportunities, you can thank their management or other connections.

Bottom line, work with whomever can help you, but make sure you need them, and that they have a proven track record of success. If you're getting big on your own and don't need management, don't pay some one to get opportunities for you that you can get on your own.

[maps1488]

Hey man. Just wondering what your take on the whole Viral Maketing thing is? Like it? Hate it? Seen some that were really solid and some that sucked.

[juice182]

is it a bad idea to put songs online for free AND sites like itunes, ect?

[SkateFirm21]

Sorry if you answered this already, but is it possible to be playing too many shows. Don't get me wrong, I like playing shows all the time, it's fun and it's what I want to do with my life, but we're not that big of a band yet, and I feel like some friends are struggling to get money to keep up with all the shows. It's because every time we play we play a show, we get offered another two shows. I know it's probably something I shouldn't be complaining about, but is it wrong to say no every once in awhile to a show offer, will that make us look bad. I mean I say yes all the time because i think its good networking, and were meeting a lot of people and getting a lot of opportunities. I feel like the show experience would be a lot better with a bunch of people at one show rather than a few people at different shows all spread out. I'm probably just thinking about it too much...

[patrickhowell]

Sorry if you answered this already, but is it possible to be playing too many shows. Don't get me wrong, I like playing shows all the time, it's fun and it's what I want to do with my life, but we're not that big of a band yet, and I feel like some friends are struggling to get money to keep up with all the shows. It's because every time we play we play a show, we get offered another two shows. I know it's probably something I shouldn't be complaining about, but is it wrong to say no every once in awhile to a show offer, will that make us look bad. I mean I say yes all the time because i think its good networking, and were meeting a lot of people and getting a lot of opportunities. I feel like the show experience would be a lot better with a bunch of people at one show rather than a few people at different shows all spread out. I'm probably just thinking about it too much...

No, you're definitely on the right track with this. How often are you playing your hometown? Once you start developing a fan base, you should start waiting longer between shows. It's good that you're in demand with promoters, though. Now YOU can decide what shows will be best for you to play, instead of just taking whatever show is offered. Instead of playing local shows all the time, you should start branching out to other cities nearby. If you draw well in your hometown, other bands will want to do show trades with you.

[SkateFirm21]

No, you're definitely on the right track with this. How often are you playing your hometown? Once you start developing a fan base, you should start waiting longer between shows. It's good that you're in demand with promoters, though. Now YOU can decide what shows will be best for you to play, instead of just taking whatever show is offered. Instead of playing local shows all the time, you should start branching out to other cities nearby. If you draw well in your hometown, other bands will want to do show trades with you.

thanks, that makes me feel better. i mean we play one or two local shows every month, and on top of that we play at least another two or three shows in outside cities, which is starting to escalate (and they are a lot bigger cities compared to our hometown, but no more that 1hr 30min away). This kind of brings me to another question, we have promos, studio recorded songs, shows, we're working on merch, whats the next big thing to focus on?

[BetterDC]

Thanks so much for doing this. I'm booking a tour for my band from Switzerland this January. This really helps since things are done a little differently in the States than in Euope.

[imaustin55]

Is it necessary to trademark your band name if you are unsigned, but have material thats copyrighted? If so, how do I go about getting one for my band?
Also... 2 of the members are under the age of 18 if that means anything to this question...

thanks :D

[Alex_Burton]

Hey man. Just wondering what your take on the whole Viral Maketing thing is? Like it? Hate it? Seen some that were really solid and some that sucked.


Ooooh sorry I haven't checked this thread in a while! Once it left the front page I lost track of it. But I'm happy to see it back!

As far as viral marketing goes, well, it's like anything else: I love it if it's done right. Unfortunately, these days I don't see too many viral marketing campaigns from bands that do anything for me. For the most part it usually ends up being some band with a countdown on their myspace page and a friend at a prominent website posting a news item on their behalf along the lines of "What could this totally mysterious and wacky countdown mean?!" And we all know it's some stupid bullshit.

I know bands aren't expert marketers, but there are some companies doing great viral marketing campaigns and they could maybe learn a thing or two. Ford had a great one with the zombie takeover of MSN.com, Coke had the magic vending machine, and there are countless flash mobs popping up on behalf of this company or that. I'm not saying bands should try and copy these things, but there is something to be said for the creative approaches being taken. It's easy to do a lot of shit on the cheap these days too, so hopefully we see more innovation here.

[Alex_Burton]

thanks, that makes me feel better. i mean we play one or two local shows every month, and on top of that we play at least another two or three shows in outside cities, which is starting to escalate (and they are a lot bigger cities compared to our hometown, but no more that 1hr 30min away). This kind of brings me to another question, we have promos, studio recorded songs, shows, we're working on merch, whats the next big thing to focus on?

Well, it all comes down to the music. It's kind of hard to say exactly what you should be focusing on without having some specific knowledge of your situation though. Is it easy for people to access your tunes? What kind of download rates are you generating?

Hopefully you're using web analytics to track traffic to your website. See where people are coming from and go play their town. Find out what websites are giving you the biggest referrals and expand that relationship. Are people interacting frequently with your Twitter? Build on that conversation to spread the word. Maybe tweet for a track?

Is Facebook where all your traffic is at? Engage your fans and use Facebook analytics to see how people react to your posts. Adjust your content accordingly.

There's a great website called Next Big Sound that does general weekly analytics for your band based on traffic, plays, fans, and other activity on your social sites. This is a great tool for measuring the impact of whatever action you decide to take. For example, maybe you decide to film a series of videos for your album, once you start rolling them out you will be able to measure the impact of that campaign, see how it grows from week to week, and evaluate its effectiveness.

Two other semi-related points:

1) If you are playing every other week in your hometown and you have a fanbase, you are playing there too often. Once you've begun to develop a following, it's important to make those hometown shows feel special. If kids know they can see you every other week, you'll find a lot more of them saying, "Well I WAS going to go to the show, but I'll just go see them next week."

2) When you say you're "working on merch" what do you mean exactly? A lot of bands will tell you that merch is their main source of revenue, so get on that ASAP. Also, if you don't have music available at shows for kids to take home, you are wasting your time. It doesn't matter if its a download card, CD, EP, or whatever - just make sure they have something they can listen to after they leave, or there's a good chance they will forget about you. You want to capitalize on each live experience, so give them something to keep that experience going when the show is over!

[Alex_Burton]

Is it necessary to trademark your band name if you are unsigned, but have material thats copyrighted? If so, how do I go about getting one for my band?
Also... 2 of the members are under the age of 18 if that means anything to this question...

thanks :D

I wouldn't really worry about a trademark. I mean, are you worried that someone is going to take your band name? If your material is copyrighted, that serves as evidence that you were recording under that moniker before the new guy, so you shouldn't really have a problem. If you're fairly active as a band, you may want to consider registering as an LLC. This allows you to A) write off a bunch of your band income as expenses, and B) protect you from any damages should fans get injured or venues trashed or any other liability suits be brought against you. You can do that over at LegalZoom.com. It's easy and pretty cheap. Just remember you'll have to file an extra tax return every year.

[Alex_Burton]

Thanks so much for doing this. I'm booking a tour for my band from Switzerland this January. This really helps since things are done a little differently in the States than in Euope.

Feel free to hit me up if you need contacts in specific cities (I may know someone!) or have any questions about touring in the states. I'm happy to help!

[imaustin55]

if you copyrighted recorded songs, but want to re-record them for better quality, do you have to get another copyright on the newer versions or not due to the fact they are the same songs for the same album?

[iamthealex]

http://www.petdance.com/actionpark/albini/the-problem-with-music.html

How realistic are the claims in this article? Just curious.