the music industry: 3 things that really grind your gears

[TreyForest]

i've been reading/watching a lot of interviews lately with bands and the question of "what do you not like about the music industry" comes up very often so it got me thinking of 3 things that I really don't like about it. So just wondering what everyone else, the fans, don't like or as peter griffin says best "3 things that really Gind your gears" This has probably been done before but fuck it

1) Touring
Bands tour way 2 much and i hate it. I'm sick of going on this site and seeing everyday 10 new tours with lame fucking names starting up with the exact same bands in different combo's. Theres this culture nowadays that a band releases 1 record, and then tour it for 2 and a half years. I don't know how you expect to grow by touring the same 10 songs so much, your playing to the exact same fans. I say write more songs and records. All the greats, beatles, zepplin, floyd released at least 1 record a year, often even more then 1 a year. If your band actually has talent, your songs will get better and reckognized, and your fan base will grow. Especially in todays market where singles are more and more important, release more of them

2) 2 much filler, not enough killer haha
industry is way 2 saturated right now with bands that all sound the same. bands are signed on myspace plays and look instead of what use to happen which was building a very strong local following by live shows and then labels discovering bands through word of mouth. Anybody can sit down infront of a computer and write a song but not anyone can really impress with live shows, your band has to have talent

3) Assumption that "bands should be bigger then they are"
A lot of people say that on here and that line really really grinds my gears. I'm a big believer in that if it was meant to happen, it will. Yes bands can get lucky with a hit and make some money, but if they want a sustained career there gonna have to it more then once, which means they gotta actually be good (cough the used / TBS cough). Like for me, a band that I feel has a lot of potential is the Dangerous Summer, and even though I thought there debut full length was awesome, i still dont like people saying that they should be bigger then they are. If they were meant to be a headlining band then there next release will be better then the last ....straight up.

yeah ..... that felt kinda good writing that haha

[Chromefox]

I feel like, for someone with experience speaking to those in the industry, you don't seem to understand it very well.

[xJesusFreakx]

I feel like, for someone with experience speaking to those in the industry, you don't seem to understand it very well.

This. Especially to #1. Tour less, really?

[Alaina <3]

Bands should never tour less. EVER. As far as the things I hate...

1.) All these damn teenyboppers from Disney who can't sing to begin with and don't even bother to try and write their own songs
2.) Bands who can't seem to get their shit together and not put a three year time span in between albums
3.) Pop punk bands who sound EXACTLY the same (All Time Low, Forever the Sickest Kids, etc.)

[tyramail]

i don't think bands should ever tour less and your number three is lame.

[quicksilv001]

1) R.i.a.a.
2) R.i.a.a.
3) R.i.a.a.

[CalIsARealBoy]

I study Music Industry Management at university and can safely say that the biggest problem is bands who think they are gonna be the business trying to drive up thier advances and royalty rates when signing to independent labels. In this ressession its ridiculous and is detrimental to the industry.

[x togepi x]

i love this. "anybody can sit down infront of a computer and write a song but not anyone can really impress with live shows, your band has to have talent" but, bands should apparently hide this talent by touring less, but they should record more albums, which apparently anyone with a computer can do.

[abcdefghijake]

This. Especially to #1. Tour less, really?

Right? I really hate being able to see bands I like live, it really pisses me off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CalIsARealBoy]

Right? I really hate being able to see bands I like live, it really pisses me off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Yeah totally sucks getting the chance to see your favourite bands in person and having a amazing time! Terrible, absolutely terrible.

[abcdefghijake]

Yeah totally sucks getting the chance to see your favourite bands in person and having a amazing time! Terrible, absolutely terrible.

God damn it I just punched the wall I'm so pissed thinking about this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

[CalIsARealBoy]

God damn it I just punched the wall I'm so pissed thinking about this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

I just ate my own goldfish hoping it will fight its way out of my stomach like in Aliens so i wont have to suffer the atrosity of having to go to awesome gigs!

[sleepyseanzzz]

good idea, keep coming out with records that most people will steal and make zero money having fun out on the road with your band

[Deadbolt23]

I think people should have to write their own songs. I know this will never happen. I just wish it would.

[CalIsARealBoy]

I think we can safely say Treyforest has thought "what can i post that makes me look like i know stuff about the music industry" without actually knowing anything. A few cobbled ideas from some buzz topics and BOOM a ready made 'i look like an idiot' post!

[saveferris]

BTW The Dangerous Summer SHOULD be bigger. The scene is just saturated with stupid teenage girls and lame trends that a band like them will never get recognized.

[kbi the crowing]

1) Touring
Bands tour way 2 much and i hate it. I'm sick of going on this site and seeing everyday 10 new tours with lame fucking names starting up with the exact same bands in different combo's. Theres this culture nowadays that a band releases 1 record, and then tour it for 2 and a half years. I don't know how you expect to grow by touring the same 10 songs so much, your playing to the exact same fans. I say write more songs and records. All the greats, beatles, zepplin, floyd released at least 1 record a year, often even more then 1 a year. If your band actually has talent, your songs will get better and reckognized, and your fan base will grow. Especially in todays market where singles are more and more important, release more of them


that's because bands used to get payed a lot more for records and not much for touring
& some bands (I.E. Portugal. The Man) do make albums that often

your argument as a whole is kinda dumb

[TreyForest]

haha
i dont think u guys get my point about the touring
what I'm saying is that bands tour the same record way 2 much
record new shit, put out new songs

[Max_123]

you're an idiot
and....
PyeRxcRP-wE&feature=player_embedded

[ThisIsNotDan]

This. Especially to #1. Tour less, really?

hey in a music thread not too long ago you posted a video of some shoegaze band. what band was it? because I loved that song

[Matthew Tsai]

BTW The Dangerous Summer SHOULD be bigger. The scene is just saturated with stupid teenage girls and lame trends that a band like them will never get recognized.

No they shouldn't they're awful.

[SD_John]

1) Touring
Bands tour way 2 much and i hate it. I'm sick of going on this site and seeing everyday 10 new tours with lame fucking names starting up with the exact same bands in different combo's. Theres this culture nowadays that a band releases 1 record, and then tour it for 2 and a half years. I don't know how you expect to grow by touring the same 10 songs so much, your playing to the exact same fans. I say write more songs and records. All the greats, beatles, zepplin, floyd released at least 1 record a year, often even more then 1 a year. If your band actually has talent, your songs will get better and reckognized, and your fan base will grow. Especially in todays market where singles are more and more important, release more of them
You do realize that most bands come out with a record ever 2 years, right? It takes a few months to write and record a record, and they tour on it for about a year and a half, or a year depending on weather or not they want to put out records more often. Usually a band will put a record out every like 3 or 4 years if there is a major set back like losing a member and not finding one that fits the band or something like that.

I suggest you go take a basic english class, too. You should really learn how to spell.

[bard]

You do realize that most bands come out with a record ever 2 years, right? It takes a few months to write and record a record, and they tour on it for about a year and a half, or a year depending on weather or not they want to put out records more often. Usually a band will put a record out every like 3 or 4 years if there is a major set back like losing a member and not finding one that fits the band or something like that.

I suggest you go take a basic english class, too. You should really learn how to spell.
:-|

[SD_John]

:-|

D: i'm a hypocrite

[bard]

lol

[bard]

it's all good. everyone does it every now and then.

[x togepi x]

good idea, keep coming out with records that most people will steal and make zero money having fun out on the road with your band

touring isn't really "having fun on the road"

[KingJohn_654]

i love this. "anybody can sit down infront of a computer and write a song but not anyone can really impress with live shows, your band has to have talent" but, bands should apparently hide this talent by touring less, but they should record more albums, which apparently anyone with a computer can do.

this.

[sleepyseanzzz]

touring isn't really "having fun on the road"

i respectfully disagree. maybe sleeping in a van as well as other aspects of giglife aren't glamorous but overall the reason you tour is because you want to go out there and play the songs you love for the fans that love you. you get to hang out a lot and meet new people as well as take in the sights at every stop of the tour. if you aren't having fun while touring then why are you even on tour in the first place? you could make money by making another album instead. but i think most bands would prefer to go have fun every night and go out on tour, get their band name known better, and sell their merch along the way.

[x togepi x]

i respectfully disagree. maybe sleeping in a van as well as other aspects of giglife aren't glamorous but overall the reason you tour is because you want to go out there and play the songs you love for the fans that love you. you get to hang out a lot and meet new people as well as take in the sights at every stop of the tour. if you aren't having fun while touring then why are you even on tour in the first place? you could make money by making another album instead. but i think most bands would prefer to go have fun every night and go out on tour, get their band name known better, and sell their merch along the way.

have you ever been on tour?

[MartyrsCasualty]

Bands should never tour less. EVER. As far as the things I hate...

1.) All these damn teenyboppers from Disney who can't sing to begin with and don't even bother to try and write their own songs
2.) Bands who can't seem to get their shit together and not put a three year time span in between albums
3.) Pop punk bands who sound EXACTLY the same (All Time Low, Forever the Sickest Kids, etc.)

Totally off topic... but I love your avatar. Show doesn't get the credit it deserves.

[sleepyseanzzz]

have you ever been on tour?

i'm not in a band so no, and again, if you are out on tour, you are having some fun, unless your van gets broken into and your shit gets stolen. i know for a fact that most of the bands i listen to and every band i see on tour is loving what they are doing.

[x togepi x]

i'm not in a band so no, and again, if you are out on tour, you are having some fun, unless your van gets broken into and your shit gets stolen. i know for a fact that most of the bands i listen to and every band i see on tour is loving what they are doing.

Dude. Do you really think bands show you all the shitty things that happen on tour? Nobody would want to watch a dvd where the bass player's all pissy because someone told him to stop talking to his girlfriend on the phone in the van. Yes, you're having "some fun", but to say touring is "going out on the road and having fun with your band" or whatever is wrong. It's stressful. It's hectic.

I mean, do you really think a band is going to go on stage and complain that the promoter from the night before stiffed them? this shit happens commonly.

[Alaina <3]

Totally off topic... but I love your avatar. Show doesn't get the credit it deserves.
Thanks. I feel awesome now. :-)

[sleepyseanzzz]

Dude. Do you really think bands show you all the shitty things that happen on tour? Nobody would want to watch a dvd where the bass player's all pissy because someone told him to stop talking to his girlfriend on the phone in the van. Yes, you're having "some fun", but to say touring is "going out on the road and having fun with your band" or whatever is wrong. It's stressful. It's hectic.

I mean, do you really think a band is going to go on stage and complain that the promoter from the night before stiffed them? this shit happens commonly.

when it's over, most people enjoyed the fact they did it. what don't you get? it's like raising a kid, it sucks sometimes and other times its a lot of fun, and when it's over you are generally happy about the experience as a whole. you think being at home working a dead end job is more fun then seeing the country and playing your music for kids who want to hear it? there is a huge reason bands tour, and if they don't have fun touring then don't go out on tour. they would sacrifice making more money touring and selling merch and concentrate on making new records that less people would know about but whatever makes them happy right? if you aren't loving what you are doing then don't do it, i don't understand how you don't get this.

[xJesusFreakx]

hey in a music thread not too long ago you posted a video of some shoegaze band. what band was it? because I loved that song

This?

XhVkiOar0Ew

The Fauns - "Lovestruck" (from The Fauns)

[saveferris]

No they shouldn't they're awful.
Different strokes for different folks. I could say the same thing about another band.

[x togepi x]

when it's over, most people enjoyed the fact they did it. what don't you get? it's like raising a kid, it sucks sometimes and other times its a lot of fun, and when it's over you are generally happy about the experience as a whole. you think being at home working a dead end job is more fun then seeing the country and playing your music for kids who want to hear it? there is a huge reason bands tour, and if they don't have fun touring then don't go out on tour. they would sacrifice making more money touring and selling merch and concentrate on making new records that less people would know about but whatever makes them happy right? if you aren't loving what you are doing then don't do it, i don't understand how you don't get this.

most people wouldn't call raising a kid "having fun with the kids" though. that's my point. I'm not claiming that touring sucks no one should do it there's nothing good in it blah blah blah blah. i'm saying it isn't just having fun on the road. it can obviously be rewarding.

[And Hours Pass]

when it's over, most people enjoyed the fact they did it. what don't you get? it's like raising a kid, it sucks sometimes and other times its a lot of fun, and when it's over you are generally happy about the experience as a whole. you think being at home working a dead end job is more fun then seeing the country and playing your music for kids who want to hear it? there is a huge reason bands tour, and if they don't have fun touring then don't go out on tour. they would sacrifice making more money touring and selling merch and concentrate on making new records that less people would know about but whatever makes them happy right? if you aren't loving what you are doing then don't do it, i don't understand how you don't get this.

most people wouldn't call raising a kid "having fun with the kids" though. that's my point. I'm not claiming that touring sucks no one should do it there's nothing good in it blah blah blah blah. i'm saying it isn't just having fun on the road. it can obviously be rewarding.

I see what both of you guys are saying. I toured a bunch and it was definitely a fun and incredible experience. I think what togepi is saying is that all the times the van broke down, we had to sleep on the floor in the back of bars or venues, the lengths of time we went without showering on occasion - those things were not as fun. But in the end of the day, I think you're both right. It's a fun rewarding experience, that while great, also comes with hardships.

This is simply only based on my experience. I'm sure others may have had different ones.

[wendjiqn]

You can still tour a shit ton as well as put out a lot of music you simpleton.

[undonesweater93]

1. Money Talks

2. Consumers are morons

ergo

3. Morons dictate what bands get signed

[TangledUp]

This. Especially to #1. Tour less, really?
My thoughts exactly.

[Formatfun]

3.) Pop punk bands who sound EXACTLY the same (All Time Low, Forever the Sickest Kids, etc.)
Totally disagree. All Time Low >>>>>>>>>>>>>> FTSK. I don't know how you can't hear the difference.
EDIT: I mean I don't disagree with the bands sounding the same/generic is bad. I disagree with the example.

[Alaina <3]

Totally disagree. All Time Low >>>>>>>>>>>>>> FTSK. I don't know how you can't hear the difference.
EDIT: I mean I don't disagree with the bands sounding the same/generic is bad. I disagree with the example.
Sorry, those were the two I thought of when I posted. That, and my friend is obsessed with both of them and I'm just like "They suck..."

[Formatfun]

Sorry, those were the two I thought of when I posted. That, and my friend is obsessed with both of them and I'm just like "They suck..."
I don't know, maybe I just have a bias for ATL because the first time I saw them they did a blink-182 song as the encore. I've never not respected them since. Even after a few bad songs on albums, I still enjoy it all for the most part. However, FTSK is really generic and lame, in my opinion.

[x togepi x]

I see what both of you guys are saying. I toured a bunch and it was definitely a fun and incredible experience. I think what togepi is saying is that all the times the van broke down, we had to sleep on the floor in the back of bars or venues, the lengths of time we went without showering on occasion - those things were not as fun. But in the end of the day, I think you're both right. It's a fun rewarding experience, that while great, also comes with hardships.

This is simply only based on my experience. I'm sure others may have had different ones.

I am saying a lot of this from booking shows and playing with other bands: if people expect touring to be fun fun fun, they tend to get really annoying when it doesn't go that way. some of the shit i've put up with younger bands (younger being age of the band itself, not the age of the members) is ridiculous.

[Alaina <3]

I don't know, maybe I just have a bias for ATL because the first time I saw them they did a blink-182 song as the encore. I've never not respected them since. Even after a few bad songs on albums, I still enjoy it all for the most part. However, FTSK is really generic and lame, in my opinion.
I agree with the FTSK thing. I just have a hard time respecting ATL since Alex Gaskarth is, well, a massive douche.

[Jasper112]

I think we can safely say Treyforest has thought "what can i post that makes me look like i know stuff about the music industry" without actually knowing anything. A few cobbled ideas from some buzz topics and BOOM a ready made 'i look like an idiot' post!

harsh

[Jasper112]

He sure did get people talking, so i guess he was successful.

[Matthew Tsai]

Totally disagree. All Time Low >>>>>>>>>>>>>> FTSK. I don't know how you can't hear the difference.
EDIT: I mean I don't disagree with the bands sounding the same/generic is bad. I disagree with the example.

That's disgustingly backwards.

[Formatfun]

That's disgustingly backwards.
Is not.

[And Hours Pass]

I am saying a lot of this from booking shows and playing with other bands: if people expect touring to be fun fun fun, they tend to get really annoying when it doesn't go that way. some of the shit i've put up with younger bands (younger being age of the band itself, not the age of the members) is ridiculous.
Yeah, I completely understand where you're coming from. We certainly didn't go in expecting fun fun fun, but we were even run down a bit when the van broke down and we couldn't find places to sleep. You definitely get used to it, but it was definitely disheartening in the beginning. I think we were too naive to realize how often these things would happen.

[oddwithoutend]

The music industry doesn't grind my gears so much as it ruffles my feathers.

[xJesusFreakx]

The music industry doesn't grind my gears so much as it ruffles my feathers.

Feathers > gears.

[oddwithoutend]

Fucking right.

[JustAGirl01]

I just ate my own goldfish hoping it will fight its way out of my stomach like in Aliens so i wont have to suffer the atrosity of having to go to awesome gigs!

this was a great read haha

[ryanhorizons]

wow, its funny being on the inside of the music business and looking out at people like this hahahaha. if you think you got it right come run the labels for us.

[ohitsmark]

Touring = making some money to make more records.

I believe that is how it works, yes?

[x1onexwo1fx]

too many spelling and grammar mistakes, my head almost imploded.

[kboe@bex.net]

haha
i dont think u guys get my point about the touring
what I'm saying is that bands tour the same record way 2 much
record new shit, put out new songs

When you think about it that really isn't that much they might only hit up said cities 2-3 times in a years time span.
People miss out on shows b/c of work, school , no money , ect.

And I don't like when bands play all new songs off their new album that hasn't even been released/ only a week or so out

[jbertclassic]

You can still tour a shit ton as well as put out a lot of music you simpleton.
Portugal. The Man

[nkalldayyy]

1. Victory Records
2. Crabcore/Crunkcore/Scenecore, etc...
3. MTV

[flourish]

It bothers me that the bands with the most money are the bands that make it nowadays. It's about marketing, and that's disgusting. That's what bothers me most, but there's so much that annoys me too. Too many bands are talentless divas that think they deserve more than they're willing to work for. The fans are obnoxious, and (having just gone to the GK tour) half the girls are underage sluts who go to shows just hoping to get in Alex Gaskarth's pants. There's so little originality, too. Too many bands are just making the same pop-rock bullshit to appeal to fans instead of making something fresh or testing any kind of boundaries. With the accessibility of music growing so quickly, though, maybe it's not surprising that the entire music scene is getting unbearably bland.

That being said, I could barely read this. My grammar and spelling OCD is kicking in and.. good grief.

[kearn1tm]

From the seven tours my shitty band participated in before becoming a shitty college-town group, it was fun, but shitty. Super shitty. We certainly didn't go touring primarily for the "fun to be had," rather to make money and attempt to proliferate our music. It was an exercise in frustration, poverty and male-pattern baldness.

[Carlo Marx]

This. Especially to #1. Tour less, really?

yeah, it's a flawed argument he's got there. instead of saying tour less, he should have said write more.

[Carlo Marx]

It bothers me that the bands with the most money are the bands that make it nowadays. It's about marketing, and that's disgusting. That's what bothers me most, but there's so much that annoys me too. Too many bands are talentless divas that think they deserve more than they're willing to work for. The fans are obnoxious, and (having just gone to the GK tour) half the girls are underage sluts who go to shows just hoping to get in Alex Gaskarth's pants. There's so little originality, too. Too many bands are just making the same pop-rock bullshit to appeal to fans instead of making something fresh or testing any kind of boundaries. With the accessibility of music growing so quickly, though, maybe it's not surprising that the entire music scene is getting unbearably bland.

That being said, I could barely read this. My grammar and spelling OCD is kicking in and.. good grief.

labels don't want to take chances anymore. downloading really has had a negative impact on music as a whole, because record labels have been hemorrhaging money since the early part of the decade. labels don't want to risk signing a dud band anymore; they'd rather find someone whom they can mold into a certified money-maker. so all this bland, auto tuned pop shit that's been big for the past few years, it's all because they're proven sellers and represent a small gain or even less of a loss for the label bigwigs.

it's funny, "fans" complain about the quality of music declining as of late, but they're really the ones to blame for it.

[wendjiqn]

Portugal. The Man

Exactly

[flourish]

labels don't want to take chances anymore. downloading really has had a negative impact on music as a whole, because record labels have been hemorrhaging money since the early part of the decade. labels don't want to risk signing a dud band anymore; they'd rather find someone whom they can mold into a certified money-maker. so all this bland, auto tuned pop shit that's been big for the past few years, it's all because they're proven sellers and represent a small gain or even less of a loss for the label bigwigs.

it's funny, "fans" complain about the quality of music declining as of late, but they're really the ones to blame for it.

I wouldn't argue that at all, the fans are a big part of the problem (if not the biggest part). But that's a whole different issue, I think. Mostly because kids are generally becoming lazy, stupid, and ignorant. It's translating into their music, which is becoming just as lazy, stupid, and bland.

Label's influence aside, I just think it's sad how few bands are trying to produce anything remotely different or original. Everyone's playing it safe, including the bands. It's understandable, and equally sad that so few decent and original bands have any chance of making it anymore.

The whole scene's just kind of fucked.

[CalIsARealBoy]

harsh

Yeah i know, but true!

A good talking point no doubt but it amused me as somebody who is working in and studying the businessto see somebody complaining about bands touring too much. I mean i know bands claim they dont do it for the money but the eventual payday would be a pleasant bonus!

I doubt he realised that 9/10 bands never recoup money through their recordings, this being the recording costs and advances they must pay back the record company. A band will never see any royalty money until this money is made back. So the only way to make a little money is to tour hence why they tour the same album several times.

But yeah, i was a little harsh but i cant resist a good burn. :-p

[musikjunky311]

I can't wait till we all just record out of our houses and swap music over the internet while having day jobs and really long run on sentences.

[KingsCrossing]

labels don't want to take chances anymore. downloading really has had a negative impact on music as a whole, because record labels have been hemorrhaging money since the early part of the decade. labels don't want to risk signing a dud band anymore; they'd rather find someone whom they can mold into a certified money-maker. so all this bland, auto tuned pop shit that's been big for the past few years, it's all because they're proven sellers and represent a small gain or even less of a loss for the label bigwigs.

it's funny, "fans" complain about the quality of music declining as of late, but they're really the ones to blame for it.

Wow, most intelligent post of this thread/possibly this entire board. Thank you.

[xJesusFreakx]

yeah, it's a flawed argument he's got there. instead of saying tour less, he should have said write more.

"Write more" does make a lot more sense. If an up-and-coming band (or established one, but they can get away with more, depending on the size and loyalty of their fan base) waits too long to release new material, they quickly become irrelevant. Touring is essential for full-time bands, though. This is, of course, the source of income; it sure ain't from album sales.

Like most things, though, it's a matter of finding the balance.

[Jasper112]

Yeah i know, but true!

A good talking point no doubt but it amused me as somebody who is working in and studying the businessto see somebody complaining about bands touring too much. I mean i know bands claim they dont do it for the money but the eventual payday would be a pleasant bonus!

I doubt he realised that 9/10 bands never recoup money through their recordings, this being the recording costs and advances they must pay back the record company. A band will never see any royalty money until this money is made back. So the only way to make a little money is to tour hence why they tour the same album several times.

But yeah, i was a little harsh but i cant resist a good burn. :-p

Hehehe. Yea i know, ur absolutely right.

[Carlo Marx]

I wouldn't argue that at all, the fans are a big part of the problem (if not the biggest part). But that's a whole different issue, I think. Mostly because kids are generally becoming lazy, stupid, and ignorant. It's translating into their music, which is becoming just as lazy, stupid, and bland.

Label's influence aside, I just think it's sad how few bands are trying to produce anything remotely different or original. Everyone's playing it safe, including the bands. It's understandable, and equally sad that so few decent and original bands have any chance of making it anymore.

The whole scene's just kind of fucked.

it seems that the majority of bands today aren't writing music to create something new, they're writing music to become rock stars. the difference between the musical climate now and 40 years ago is that back then the idea of the rock star was a relatively new concept. those bands (beatles, zeppelin, black sabbath, jimi hendrix, et cetera) weren't writing music, they were creating art. a lot of people have forgotten that music really is just auditory art. it's been commercialized and commodotized (is that even a word?) and it has suffered for it.

i'm just waiting for the day when bands return to the ideal of music for music's sake: not to get fans, not to gain notoriety, not to take over the world, but simply to create something new.

[Carlo Marx]

Wow, most intelligent post of this thread/possibly this entire board. Thank you.

thanks man. it's something that's really bothered me a lot lately, but haven't had the experience to speak intelligently about until my band toured and did the song and dance routine for a label. it gets really disheartening and soul crushing to see it first hand. i'm just going to buy pro-tools and give out all my future tunes for free.

[KingsCrossing]

thanks man. it's something that's really bothered me a lot lately, but haven't had the experience to speak intelligently about until my band toured and did the song and dance routine for a label. it gets really disheartening and soul crushing to see it first hand. i'm just going to buy pro-tools and give out all my future tunes for free.

Yeah it's really sad the way labels are operating now, but in a way I understand where they're coming from. I've interned at a few labels, both major and large indie and they simply refuse to take risks. It's all about the numbers - merch and iTunes sales have trumped music and overall talent.

People complain about bad music, but then go ahead and download music illegaly and justify it for whatever reason. The worst reason is "well I go to a band's show and support them like that." People just don't understand the way this business works.

[Chromefox]

Illegal downloaders are the same people who spend the most money on music. How about those statistics?

[broaddplease]

The one thing that really bothers me is kids who are like, "________ is MY band, I cant believe they're on the radio now, those sellouts! Now they're gonna get tons of fake fans and it wont be cool for me to like them anymore."

[eriatarka24]

The one thing that really bothers me is kids who are like, "________ is MY band, I cant believe they're on the radio now, those sellouts! Now they're gonna get tons of fake fans and it wont be cool for me to like them anymore."
I hate that too.

[cshadows2887]

1. The obligatory "song added to the greatest hits that isn't on any other records" song. I know it's older than time. Still doesn't make it right. Great songs this has caused me to not own: Lenny Kravitz - Again, Foo Fighters - Wheels, Bob Dylan - Positively 4th Street. The list goes on.

2. Itunes-only EP's. It really just fucks over people who actually like to own physical copies of music, without benefitting anyone. I understand pressing a record in mass quantities is expensive, so just press a limited run.

3. Vocals at concerts being WAY too low in the mix. Another one that has been that way since the dawn of time, but it's no excuse. If I'm going to lose hearing at shows (which I am...and have enjoyed every minute) I want to at least hear the words. I understand you want to prove that you can kick your audiences asses (in an auditory sense) but cranking the drums up until it rattles your testicles off doesn't make your songs any more enjoyable if I can't hear your singer.

[cshadows2887]

The one thing that really bothers me is kids who are like, "________ is MY band, I cant believe they're on the radio now, those sellouts! Now they're gonna get tons of fake fans and it wont be cool for me to like them anymore."

Thaaaaat should have been on my list.

[Carlo Marx]

Illegal downloaders are the same people who spend the most money on music. How about those statistics?

first, link to those stats, please.

second, are you saying that the people who download the most illegally also spend the most legally? or is it just a fraction of illegal downloaders who spend the most money on actual purchases? because yeah, i download a ton, i'm not claiming that i don't. But I also spend a ton of money on cd's and records. I've got a little under 500 vinyl albums, and my cd collection is close to 2000. I'm not putting numbers up to brag, i'm just pointing out that a good portion of my money goes to music purchases. however, i know far more people who download and only download.

example: i was at my friends house yesterday, and one of the girls there asked me what i use to download music. i replied that i don't; i swap files with online friends but the majority of my collection is all physical copies. she stared at me with a dumbfounded look on her face and asked why i spend money; i replied that i actually take pride in having a cd collection. she couldn't process the fact that i still spend money on music.

point of the story: she downloads illegally. i do both but the majority of my library (and i'm talking about an 80%-20% split here) is made up of records that i own.

[Carlo Marx]

The one thing that really bothers me is kids who are like, "________ is MY band, I cant believe they're on the radio now, those sellouts! Now they're gonna get tons of fake fans and it wont be cool for me to like them anymore."

a lot of bands tend to change ther sound when they move on to radio/tv airplay. they do it to stay relevant. if i was ever in the position of making music my living, i probably wouldn't hesitate to change things about my style to stay relevant. but that's a judgement call; i've obviously never been in that position. it may seem like "selling out", but when you're presented with an opportunity to not only make money, but make enough to live comfortably it tends to be an easy decision. it sucks that what's popular is usually frowned upon in the indie scene, but c'est la vie.

walk a mile in your favorite band's shoes before you cry sellout. think about their position from their point of view.

[bard]

a lot of bands tend to change ther sound when they move on to radio/tv airplay. they do it to stay relevant. if i was ever in the position of making music my living, i probably wouldn't hesitate to change things about my style to stay relevant. but that's a judgement call; i've obviously never been in that position. it may seem like "selling out", but when you're presented with an opportunity to not only make money, but make enough to live comfortably it tends to be an easy decision. it sucks that what's popular is usually frowned upon in the indie scene, but c'est la vie.

walk a mile in your favorite band's shoes before you cry sellout. think about their position from their point of view.
i don't understand how you can think changing how you make music in order to make more money isnt selling out...

[Carlo Marx]

i don't understand how you can think changing how you make music in order to make more money isnt selling out...

it depends on when it happens. selling out, by definition, is changing your style to gain notoriety. if you've already been signed and have recieved airplay, changing your style is called staying relevant.

i'm not talking about a 180 degree change here, i'm talking about minor stylistic changes. lady gaga is huge now, so you're starting to hear her influence on other pop artists such as britney spears and christina aguilera. that's staying relevant.

if your friend had a heavily glassjaw influenced band, decided it wasn't working out and started something in the same vein as lady gaga, that would be selling out.

[bard]

it depends on when it happens. selling out, by definition, is changing your style to gain notoriety. if you've already been signed and have recieved airplay, changing your style is called staying relevant.

i'm not talking about a 180 degree change here, i'm talking about minor stylistic changes. lady gaga is huge now, so you're starting to hear her influence on other pop artists such as britney spears and christina aguilera. that's staying relevant.

if your friend had a heavily glassjaw influenced band, decided it wasn't working out and started something in the same vein as lady gaga, that would be selling out.
"staying relevant" is selling out. if you are really putting your heart and soul into your music, then you shouldn't have to care about what is "popular" or "relevant"

and you can be successful without "staying relevant"

it doesn't matter at what point in your career that you change your sound to "stay relevant"

[Carlo Marx]

"staying relevant" is selling out. if you are really putting your heart and soul into your music, then you shouldn't have to care about what is "popular" or "relevant"

and you can be successful without "staying relevant"

it doesn't matter at what point in your career that you change your sound to "stay relevant"

it's a rarity. and hey, if you're signed to a major label, you've already given away your heart and soul. you've signed a contract regarding your art, parting with most of your creative control. did you ever wonder why bands track demos before they begin work on a new album? it's because their label has to approve the songs. go back to the first post i made in this thread about what labels look for these days. selling out is an outdated term, and it really does depend on when a band's change in sound come about.

yes, you can be successful without "staying relevant", but these days it's incredibly difficult to do so, and it's only going to become even more difficult as time goes on.

[bard]

it's a rarity. and hey, if you're signed to a major label, you've already given away your heart and soul. you've signed a contract regarding your art, parting with most of your creative control. did you ever wonder why bands track demos before they begin work on a new album? it's because their label has to approve the songs. go back to the first post i made in this thread about what labels look for these days. selling out is an outdated term, and it really does depend on when a band's change in sound come about.

yes, you can be successful without "staying relevant", but these days it's incredibly difficult to do so, and it's only going to become even more difficult as time goes on.
so, because it's difficult to be successful without "staying relevant", it's okay to change your music?

BS

i'm not going to agree with you, so you might as well stop.

[KingsCrossing]

Not even going to bother making the same points Carlo Marx is making. He is right about this though.

[Carlo Marx]

so, because it's difficult to be successful without "staying relevant", it's okay to change your music?

BS

i'm not going to agree with you, so you might as well stop.

look, the point i'm making here is that unless you're willing to make sacrifices, you won't be a "successful" musician in the rock star sense.

i'm not saying that if a band isn't selling out arena shows they're unsuccessful. success is a relative term. if you accomplish what you set out to do, then you're a success. if what you want to do is make a living playing music, then get ready to eat some serious shit. as time goes on, it's going to be harder and harder to survive on the indie circuit.

[TangledUp]

The one thing that really bothers me is kids who are like, "________ is MY band, I cant believe they're on the radio now, those sellouts! Now they're gonna get tons of fake fans and it wont be cool for me to like them anymore."
Yes. It's really annoying hearing people complain about "their" band getting popular, and them acting like they are superior because they supposedly liked said band first. No one cares!

[Chromefox]

first, link to those stats, please.

second, are you saying that the people who download the most illegally also spend the most legally? or is it just a fraction of illegal downloaders who spend the most money on actual purchases? because yeah, i download a ton, i'm not claiming that i don't. But I also spend a ton of money on cd's and records. I've got a little under 500 vinyl albums, and my cd collection is close to 2000. I'm not putting numbers up to brag, i'm just pointing out that a good portion of my money goes to music purchases. however, i know far more people who download and only download.

example: i was at my friends house yesterday, and one of the girls there asked me what i use to download music. i replied that i don't; i swap files with online friends but the majority of my collection is all physical copies. she stared at me with a dumbfounded look on her face and asked why i spend money; i replied that i actually take pride in having a cd collection. she couldn't process the fact that i still spend money on music.

point of the story: she downloads illegally. i do both but the majority of my library (and i'm talking about an 80%-20% split here) is made up of records that i own. http://www.boingboing.net/2009/11/01/heavy-illegal-downlo.html

[broaddplease]

a lot of bands tend to change ther sound when they move on to radio/tv airplay. they do it to stay relevant. if i was ever in the position of making music my living, i probably wouldn't hesitate to change things about my style to stay relevant. but that's a judgement call; i've obviously never been in that position. it may seem like "selling out", but when you're presented with an opportunity to not only make money, but make enough to live comfortably it tends to be an easy decision. it sucks that what's popular is usually frowned upon in the indie scene, but c'est la vie.

walk a mile in your favorite band's shoes before you cry sellout. think about their position from their point of view.

But I'm not calling my favorite bands sell outs...I was just saying that its annoying when people do that...Isnt that what this boards is about, things in the music industry that annoy you?

[Back_in_Anger]

2. Itunes-only EP's. It really just fucks over people who actually like to own physical copies of music, without benefitting anyone. I understand pressing a record in mass quantities is expensive, so just press a limited run.
This. Although for me it's more of the itunes bonus material. It happens all the time. An album comes out that I want to buy, what do I do: buy the itunes version w/ bonus tracks or buy the physical album to add to my collection. I don't feel that consumers who want to spend their money on the product should have to choose. It would make sense that the idea of online exclusives are being driven by itunes and not the band/label, but can't the label do anything to offer the same material to people who actually buy the music? Luckily, all the bonus material is readily available on the internet somewhere.

[Carlo Marx]

But I'm not calling my favorite bands sell outs...I was just saying that its annoying when people do that...Isnt that what this boards is about, things in the music industry that annoy you?

i wasn't accusing you of crying sell-out. i'm just addressing your post. you know, offering my perspective on it. i think too many people go looking for fights on the internet. i'm just participating in the discussion. same as you.

yes, that's exactly what the thread is about. i just wanted to go a little deeper into the point you made.

[Carlo Marx]

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/11/01/heavy-illegal-downlo.html

ok, but the article provides no hard facts. and yes, they can poll people about downloading music illegally, but a poll doesn't represent every statistic, and numbers can be made to say whatever you want.

so, the people who download the most also buy the most. what about the people who don't download the most. they just download a little bit here and there. well, those numbers start to add up. one person downloading and buying does not outweigh the ten people who download but don't buy. but we're digressing anyway. my post was about downloading hurting the industry. it's a fact. you can't dispute it when we've all been watching album sales decline steadily for the past decade.

people can download and buy all they want, but unless every single downloader is also buying albums, it will continue to hurt asrtists and labels.

[broaddplease]

i wasn't accusing you of crying sell-out. i'm just addressing your post. you know, offering my perspective on it. i think too many people go looking for fights on the internet. i'm just participating in the discussion. same as you.

yes, that's exactly what the thread is about. i just wanted to go a little deeper into the point you made.

Aha I thought you thought I was one of those kids, sorry. No fights here.

[Chromefox]

ok, but the article provides no hard facts. and yes, they can poll people about downloading music illegally, but a poll doesn't represent every statistic, and numbers can be made to say whatever you want.

so, the people who download the most also buy the most. what about the people who don't download the most. they just download a little bit here and there. well, those numbers start to add up. one person downloading and buying does not outweigh the ten people who download but don't buy. but we're digressing anyway. my post was about downloading hurting the industry. it's a fact. you can't dispute it when we've all been watching album sales decline steadily for the past decade.

people can download and buy all they want, but unless every single downloader is also buying albums, it will continue to hurt asrtists and labels. Sigh. I never said anything about as a whole VS individuals, and also, it's a perfectly reasonable suggestion that people who spend the most on music are involved with music in all kinds of ways, and much more deeply than casual listeners.

I didn't provide the tidbit to enter a debate or end a discussion. It's a funfact. That is all.

[Carlo Marx]

Aha I thought you thought I was one of those kids, sorry. No fights here.

haha, tue. you know what they say about fighting on the internet.

[Carlo Marx]

Sigh. I never said anything about as a whole VS individuals, and also, it's a perfectly reasonable suggestion that people who spend the most on music are involved with music in all kinds of ways, and much more deeply than casual listeners.

I didn't provide the tidbit to enter a debate or end a discussion. It's a funfact. That is all.

i'm not gonna debate that. i think one fo the things inferred by my posts is that yeah, i download a ton, but i also buy a ton, and am more involved with music than most people i know.

come on though, what fun would this thread be without a debate of some sort? i'd like to think we're being slightly more intelligent than the kids that post in the official devil wears prada thread. and let's be honest, AP is severely lacking in the intelligent discussion area.

[Chromefox]

come on though, what fun would this thread be without a debate of some sort? i'd like to think we're being slightly more intelligent than the kids that post in the official devil wears prada thread. and let's be honest, AP is severely lacking in the intelligent discussion area. I don't disagree with you here, I just have nothing to argue in this case.

[matchbox202006]

21, flip it, 12. You're 12.