Halladay/Lee Trade Thread

[Killadelphia]

Instead of destroying the mlb thread.

[xbrokendownx]

i approve!

[pand75]

sweet.

[Eich696]

Justin, you are a genius.

[Killadelphia]

7:51pm: Elliott says (via Twitter (http://twitter.com/elliottbaseball/status/6681144488)) that Drabek is in the deal, but Aumont is not.

ugh...

[Mibabalou]

baseball

[IAmNietzche]

7:51pm: Elliott says (via Twitter (http://twitter.com/elliottbaseball/status/6681144488)) that Drabek is in the deal, but Aumont is not.

ugh...
shit, we should keep Lee then.

[Eich696]

7:51pm: Elliott says (via Twitter (http://twitter.com/elliottbaseball/status/6681144488)) that Drabek is in the deal, but Aumont is not.

ugh...

I really hope that this is not true...

[J.C.]

Nice.

[Lost Glories]

lee>halladay

[Killadelphia]

lee>halladay

Halladay is without a doubt a better pitcher over his career than Lee. Halladay also gives the Phillies a righty to go with Hamels.

The problem I have with the deal is everything else they're giving up for Halladay. If you're trading Drabek and Taylor. You might as well trade the farm for Halladay and keep Lee.

[Eich696]

Halladay is without a doubt a better pitcher over his career than Lee. Halladay also gives the Phillies a righty to go with Hamels.

The problem I have with the deal is everything else they're giving up for Halladay. If you're trading Drabek and Taylor. You might as well trade the farm for Halladay and keep Lee.

Agreed. Then Agreed again.

[IAmNietzche]

I think the big thing here is locking up a top 5 guy for 4+ years over what might amount to renting a top 10 guy for a year. However, if we're giving up Drabek then I'm not happy about this trade at all.

[pand75]

Nice.
Nice.

[Killadelphia]

I think the big thing here is locking up a top 5 guy for 4+ years over what might amount to renting a top 10 guy for a year. However, if we're giving up Drabek then I'm not happy about this trade at all.

Yeah but 2 of the 4 years will probably be rebuilding years...I mean obviously it is speculation that we won't be re-signing most of the team after 2011, but I'd say the odds are at least 70/30 as of right now.

[Eich696]

I just dont understand why we would not just do the deal with Toronto if we are including Drabek and Taylor and leave the M's out of it.

[Killadelphia]

I just dont understand why we would not just do the deal with Toronto if we are including Drabek and Taylor and leave the M's out of it.

$$, I already posted that though no one believes me that is why they're moving Lee. It is strictly to save $$.

[Eich696]

$$, I already posted that though no one believes me that is why they're moving Lee. It is strictly to save $$.

Looks like our cheap ass front office is back to strike again... If Drabek, Taylor, and Lee are traded for Halladay they are going to be the laughing stock of the MLB. So stupid.

[Killadelphia]

Looks like our cheap ass front office is back to strike again... If Drabek, Taylor, and Lee are traded for Halladay they are going to be the laughing stock of the MLB. So stupid.

Well they're not exactly cheap right now. They haven't been since they went after Thome, however, as Mike mentioned before, why can't they just foot the bill for one year.

[J.C.]

It's pretty obvious they moved Lee to save money, they should've just moved him in a separate deal. On his own, he would've netted them a nice haul.

[Until The Bombs]

Aren't/weren't the rumors that Lee intends to test the market? Which would mean highest bidder gets him and he'll likely goes for more than he should.

[Killadelphia]

It's pretty obvious they moved Lee to save money, they should've just moved him in a separate deal. On his own, he would've netted them a nice haul.

I wonder if that is what is going on now.

[Andy Young]

Halladay is better and Lee made it clear that he wasn't sure on signing a deal after his contract is up after this year so trading for Halladay and signing hime for 3 years to start off with is a pretty good move. Halladay put up great numbers despite having to play many many games a year aginst the Yanks, Red Sox and Rays so coming to the NL should see his numbers jump to really incredible figures.

[Eich696]

Well they're not exactly cheap right now. They haven't been since they went after Thome, however, as Mike mentioned before, why can't they just foot the bill for one year.

Yeah my bad I looked at it in the wrong sense. I just wish they would pony it up for one year...

[Killadelphia]

Aumont coming to Philly...makes things a little better.

[pand75]

Drabek to Jays
Aumont to Phillies

...for now

[StuGrimson]

Id really like it if somehow Lyle Overbay went to Seattle in this but I dont see that happening

[IAmNietzche]

Drabek to Jays
Aumont to Phillies

...for now
How does he compare to Drabek?

[Killadelphia]

How does he compare to Drabek?

Drabek and Taylor were listed as top 25 prospects in July.

Aumont wasn't in the top 50.

Aumont has upside, but we'll see.

[Eich696]

Drabek and Taylor were listed as top 25 prospects in July.

Aumont wasn't in the top 50.

That makes me feel GREAT

[Killadelphia]

That makes me feel GREAT

Aumont has upside though. Throws 95 and has a hard sinker. He's also a big body. Has a curveball that could become a plus pitch and his 3rd pitch is a change.

[wroteurname]

I really like this deal. Mainly because it puts Halladay in NL and not with the Yankees. However, in the past week the Red Sox have traded away one of my favorite players, failed to a sign another and brought in one of my most hated. What a a week.

[Eich696]

Aumont has upside though. Throws 95 and has a hard sinker. He's also a big body. Has a curveball that could become a plus pitch and his 3rd pitch is a change.

Wasn't he converted to a reliever though because of injury concerns?

[Killadelphia]

Wasn't he converted to a reliever though because of injury concerns?

yeah, but drabek also has injury concerns.

[Eich696]

yeah, but drabek also has injury concerns.

But everything went fine with him last year and he pitched the number of innings they were going to allow him to pitch... Do you think they will make aumont a starter if he comes here?

[pand75]

Aumont is going to be a closer or reliever with good stuff. Mariners weren't sure what he was.

[Killadelphia]

Aumont is going to be a closer or reliever with good stuff. Mariners weren't sure what he was.

no wonder why toronto doesn't want him.

[pand75]

no wonder why toronto doesn't want him.
I'm very impressed with Anthopoulos so far.

[Killadelphia]

I'm very impressed with Anthopoulos so far.

getting more and more pissed off with Amaro.

[Killadelphia]

PHI sends Lee, D'Arnaud, Taylor and Drabek and receives Halladay, Aumont and Gillies.

which means CLEARLY, Phillies could have Halladay and Lee.

[aloneatlastnj]

I'm very impressed with Anthopoulos so far.

he is definitely not ricciardi.

[pand75]

Z fleeced everyone

[Killadelphia]

So...why wasn't this trade just made last year, Amaro?

[Eich696]

I just heard that Blanton was part of the deal...

[Killadelphia]

I just heard that Blanton was part of the deal...

he's not. Only unknown piece is happ or drabek.

[goldandgreen182]

The trade made sense when Drabek was staying put. I really can't see how it is justified now, but that's just me.

[Eich696]

he's not. Only unknown piece is happ or drabek.

MUCH rather lose Happ than Drabek.

[StrictlyBiznas]

$$, I already posted that though no one believes me that is why they're moving Lee. It is strictly to save $$.

I completely believe that they're trading Lee to save money.

[Eich696]

I completely believe that they're trading Lee to save money.

Please dont remind me....:-(

[Ben09]

Drabek!! One of my high school buds. Definitely would hate for him to end up in Toronto.

[Killadelphia]

Phillies are getting $6MM in the deal. Fuck! Trading Lee is looking even dumber.

[xbrokendownx]

so basically theyre trading Lee to save $3 million? for real?!

[Killadelphia]

so basically theyre trading Lee to save $3 million? for real?!

Told you, the hunch was a dumb fucking idea.

[Kman223]

I really don't think that's the case. But, if it is, why aren't they just shopping Lee to the Rangers? They offered Feliz and Smoak for Josh Johnson, so clearly they aren't afraid of giving up prime talent. Id take either one of them over the entire Seattle package.

But really, they aren't trading Lee. It has to be Blanton. The difference is less than 3 million and Lee is so much better. Plus they are missing out on 2 draft picks as well.

[Killadelphia]

I really don't think that's the case. But, if it is, why aren't they just shopping Lee to the Rangers? They offered Feliz and Smoak for Josh Johnson, so clearly they aren't afraid of giving up prime talent. Id take either one of them over the entire Seattle package.

But really, they aren't trading Lee. It has to be Blanton. The difference is less than 3 million and Lee is so much better. Plus they are missing out on 2 draft picks as well.

Johnson is cheaper, under control for awhile, correct?

[Killadelphia]

I really don't think that's the case. But, if it is, why aren't they just shopping Lee to the Rangers? They offered Feliz and Smoak for Josh Johnson, so clearly they aren't afraid of giving up prime talent. Id take either one of them over the entire Seattle package.

But really, they aren't trading Lee. It has to be Blanton. The difference is less than 3 million and Lee is so much better. Plus they are missing out on 2 draft picks as well.

Phillies don't need to trade either. It is virtually two seperate deals.

[Kman223]

Johnson is cheaper, under control for awhile, correct?

Yes, not to mention younger (and better). Point is, Aumont is nothing special, probably end up being a reliever. There HAS to be a better offer for Cliff Lee. I just picked the Rangers because they have a deep farm and are in need of pitching. Plus they've shown a willingness to offer prime prospects for the best pitchers in the league.

[Killadelphia]

Yes, not to mention younger (and better). Point is, Aumont is nothing special, probably end up being a reliever. There HAS to be a better offer for Cliff Lee. I just picked the Rangers because they have a deep farm and are in need of pitching. Plus they've shown a willingness to offer prime prospects for the best pitchers in the league.

THEY DON'T HAVE TO TRADE CLIFF LEE!

Could have Halladay/Lee/Hamels/Blanton/Happ rotation.

Don't resign Lee, get 2 picks. They'll be low level prospects just like what we're getting.

[Eich696]

Shoot me. I am so pissed if this is all true.

Edit: Was very excited when I first heard about the deal. Thought all we would be losing was Cliff Lee and a prospect, but not things sound like they are getting out of hand...

[Kman223]

Phillies don't need to trade either. It is virtually two seperate deals.

Well yes, they do. They are going to try and keep their budget as close to $140MM as possible. That means either Lee or Blanton are going (only two mentioned) to try and offset the salary. My qualm isn't keeping the budget low. It's trading Cliff Lee over Joe Blanton to save an extra $2M. It's giving Jamie Moyer 2 years when nobody else would have. It's giving any reliever a huge contract, no matter what they had done.

I still think its Blanton being moved, they are smarter than this.

[Kman223]

THEY DON'T HAVE TO TRADE CLIFF LEE!

Could have Halladay/Lee/Hamels/Blanton/Happ rotation.

Don't resign Lee, get 2 picks. They'll be low level prospects just like what we're getting.

They do need to make some kind of separate trade man, they aren't busting their budget.

[Killadelphia]

Well yes, they do. They are going to try and keep their budget as close to $140MM as possible. That means either Lee or Blanton are going (only two mentioned) to try and offset the salary. My qualm isn't keeping the budget low. It's trading Cliff Lee over Joe Blanton to save an extra $2M. It's giving Jamie Moyer 2 years when nobody else would have. It's giving any reliever a huge contract, no matter what they had done.

I still think its Blanton being moved, they are smarter than this.

No, they don't. It is a self-imposed cap and they made many, many million over the last few years and one of their owners is a multi-billionaire. So no, they really do not need to. A $3MM investment to keep Lee this year isn't terrible.

Joe Blanton doesn't warrant much return, thats why. They could still trade Blanton and keep LEe.

[Kman223]

No, they don't. It is a self-imposed cap and they made many, many million over the last few years and one of their owners is a multi-billionaire. So no, they really do not need to. A $3MM investment to keep Lee this year isn't terrible.

You arent understanding what I am saying. No, technically they dont NEED to trade anyone. Im sure if it were up to Amaro he'd hang on to everyone and sign Matt Holliday while he was at it for those interleague games. You are being ridiculous, the owners don't want the budget going over 140 million, and thats what it is. We aren't the Yankees. So they will make another trade to free up salary somewhere.

[Killadelphia]

You arent understanding what I am saying. No, technically they dont NEED to trade anyone. Im sure if it were up to Amaro he'd hang on to everyone and sign Matt Holliday while he was at it for those interleague games. You are being ridiculous, the owners don't want the budget going over 140 million, and thats what it is. We aren't the Yankees. So they will make another trade to free up salary somewhere.

Having Lee or not having Lee is a difference of only $3 million next year. We're getting Halladay plus $6 million to pay for his salary from Toronto.

You're not understanding.

For a team that was so willing to pay fucking Eaton and Jenkins $8 million each to do nothing...I think for the people who fill their seats, they can spend $3 million.

[xbrokendownx]

They do need to make some kind of separate trade man, they aren't busting their budget.




if they are getting $6 million back in the deal, they would be saving a grand total of $3 million with this deal. they can just let Lee walk after this season, and get draft picks for it

[Kman223]

Okay, so get Halladay plus the 6 million and keep Lee (which I would love). That leaves them with roughly 3 million to spend on a reliever, bench player, etc. They are making another move, I think its Blanton on his way out, not Lee.

[Kman223]

Also, I want to make this clear, I want them to keep Lee and I think they are fools for not wanting to have a rotation of Halladay/Lee/Hamels/Blanton/Happ. Unfortunately that's just not how they are going to work, I don't think.

[Killadelphia]

Okay, so get Halladay plus the 6 million and keep Lee (which I would love). That leaves them with roughly 3 million to spend on a reliever, bench player, etc. They are making another move, I think its Blanton on his way out, not Lee.

Let's Bastardo relieve and bring up Mathieson.

The bench is done. They're not signing anything else for the bench. It is full.

[Kman223]

The Phillies like their overpayed vet relievers...

Really, there should be a manhunt for Jamie Moyer. He needs to retire or take a cut or something.

[Killadelphia]

10:12pm: Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun (via Twitter (http://twitter.com/elliottbaseball/status/6685310712)) has Toronto getting Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor, and Travis D'Arnaud; Philly getting Roy Halladay and Philippe Aumont; and the Mariners getting Cliff Lee, plus another piece (or, pieces).

[Eich696]

10:12pm: Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun (via Twitter (http://twitter.com/elliottbaseball/status/6685310712)) has Toronto getting Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor, and Travis D'Arnaud; Philly getting Roy Halladay and Philippe Aumont; and the Mariners getting Cliff Lee, plus another piece (or, pieces).

We are essentially getting nothing for fucking Lee...

[Killadelphia]

The Phillies like their overpayed vet relievers...

Really, there should be a manhunt for Jamie Moyer. He needs to retire or take a cut or something.

the only one overpaid is Lidge. Outside of that, who? no one is left on the market.

[Kman223]

Romero is overpaid, so is Durbin. Rodney is still on the market, and they have been linked to him. Im on your side man, I want what you want.

Edit: Also jamie moyer if they keep in the pen haha

[Killadelphia]

Romero is overpaid, so is Durbin. Rodney is still on the market, and they have been linked to him. Im on your side man, I want what you want.

Durbin gets arbitration. Hard to argue... Romero is overpaid for sure. Said that when they signed him.

Moyer is hurt.

[Kman223]

Durbin gets arbitration. Hard to argue... Romero is overpaid for sure. Said that when they signed him.

Moyer is hurt.

Couldve non tendered Durbin and kept Condrey. Moyer is a dick.

[Killadelphia]

Couldve non tendered Durbin and kept Condrey. Moyer is a dick.

Durbin made $1.6 MM last year, what are you complaining about?

[imirish06]

Oooooooooooof

[aloneatlastnj]

10:12pm: Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun (via Twitter (http://twitter.com/elliottbaseball/status/6685310712)) has Toronto getting Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor, and Travis D'Arnaud; Philly getting Roy Halladay and Philippe Aumont; and the Mariners getting Cliff Lee, plus another piece (or, pieces).

holy shit philadelphia got fleeced and this is such a dumb fucking idea. i see this as essentially two separate deals - one getting rid of lee, the other acquiring halladay.

now, isn't that package toronto will be getting VERY similar to the original deal they were talking about with the phillies back in july? why not just hang onto lee, explore/go through with the trade for halladay, bite the fucking bullet and have a bloated salary for 2010? the phillies are essentially getting rid of lee for JUST phillippe fucking aumont so far? wow this is getting really terrible/out of hand with nothing but conflicting stories from anonymous sources left and right.

the mariners have to be giving up something to toronto right? why/how else would this be a 3 team deal if they weren't? otherwise it's just 2 deals like i said.

[Killadelphia]

holy shit philadelphia got fleeced and this is such a dumb fucking idea. i see this as essentially two separate deals - one getting rid of lee, the other acquiring halladay.

now, isn't that package toronto will be getting VERY similar to the original deal they were talking about back in july? why not just hang onto lee, explore/go through with the trade for halladay, bite the fucking bullet and have a bloated salary for 2010? the phillies are essentially getting rid of lee for JUST phillippe fucking aumont so far? wow this is getting really terrible/out of hand.

Isn't this what I said before and all I heard was no way possible, blah blah blah.

[Killadelphia]

ESPN just had the deal reported earlier with Gillies going to Philly too.

[aloneatlastnj]

Isn't this what I said before and all I heard was no way possible, blah blah blah.

i have no clue what we've said/haven't said anymore. this whole thing is a gigantic cluster fuck with no real reporting being done other than the fact that halladay will be a member of the philadelphia phillies in 2010. i don't know if lee is going to seattle, i don't know if blanton/happ/whoever the fuck else is getting moved, i don't know SHIT about this deal. as it's being reported right now with the phillies giving up 3 guys to toronto (in a deal that seems very similar to that reported in july) and as it seems right now a separate transaction with seattle in which they're getting absofuckinglutely nothing in return for a guy that should get a similar return to what they're giving away to the blue jays....it's so fucking dumb for philadelphia. seattle would arguably be the only team to improve.

my head is ready to explode.

[startBBtoday]

phillies are getting the best player in this deal and prospects and it's clear they weren't going to spend the money to have halladay and lee. i really don't know what there is to complain about.

[Killadelphia]

i have no clue what we've said/haven't said anymore. this whole thing is a gigantic cluster fuck with no real reporting being done other than the fact that halladay will be a member of the philadelphia phillies in 2010. i don't know if lee is going to seattle, i don't know if blanton/happ/whoever the fuck else is getting moved, i don't know SHIT about this deal. as it's being reported right now with the phillies giving up 3 guys to toronto (in a deal that seems very similar to that reported in july) and as it seems right now a separate transaction with seattle in which they're getting absofuckinglutely nothing in return for a guy that should get a similar return to what they're giving away to the blue jays....it's so fucking dumb for philadelphia. seattle would arguably be the only team to improve.

my head is ready to explode.

yep, got yelled at for calling it lateral too.

Lee is a pure salary dump. No different than the Abreu Salary dump. a joke.

[lollercats]

Instead of destroying the mlb thread.
If we lose Happ and Lee, I will kill Ruben Amaro, Jr. with my own hands.

[Killadelphia]

phillies are getting the best player in this deal and prospects and it's clear they weren't going to spend the money to have halladay and lee. i really don't know what there is to complain about.

the prospects they're getting for lee is nothing.

We've virtually dumped 7 people from our system for Halladay and an extension, which we could have done last year...

[Killadelphia]

If we lose Happ and Lee, I will kill Ruben Amaro, Jr. with my own hands.

sadly, happ is staying.

[lollercats]

sadly, happ is staying.
I guess I'm in the minority, but I love Happ. He is one of the few young pitchers we have that seems to take the game seriously and tries to correct his mistakes unlike a certain hollywood boy...

[imirish06]

nuts and bolts. nuts and bolts

we got screwed

[Killadelphia]

I guess I'm in the minority, but I love Happ. He is one of the few young pitchers we have that seems to take the game seriously and tries to correct his mistakes unlike a certain hollywood boy...

Except he's not that good and his value was the highest it'll ever be right now.

[lollercats]

Meh, I'll respect your opinions by keeping mine to myself.

[aloneatlastnj]

phillies are getting the best player in this deal and prospects and it's clear they weren't going to spend the money to have halladay and lee. i really don't know what there is to complain about.

i think that's the biggest issue here. i don't even have much invested in the phillies other than i've lived in the area for 5+ years now and i don't understand why philadelphia just can't bite the bullet for a fucking year (after receiving millions in bonus revenue for being a contending team) and collect both talent and draft picks from hanging onto cliff lee AND trading for halladay at the same time.

instead they make what right now looks like two separate deals. and while it's still unclear what/who is going where, the pure return for cliff lee is a fucking joke. the only way i can see it balancing out is if seattle ponies up either in money or prospects (sent to philly and/or toronto) to alleviate the hit the phillies are taking for 1) dishing out prospects and, 2) trading cliff lee (whose value is through the fucking roof).

as it's being reported right now, seattle is acquiring cliff lee for virtually nothing (aumont - really nothing more than a relief prospect and maybe gillies who seems like brett gardner pt II with a better arm) - which isn't really how 3 team trades generally work. see: arizona/new york/detroit just a week ago.

i'm sure once this thing is finalized the whole mind fuck of what's really going on will go away and we'll be able to analyze it for better and worse but as it stands at this point in time, i just can't grasp what exactly is transpiring because it seems like philadelphia never had to trade for cliff lee in the first place haha.

[Killadelphia]

Meh, I'll respect your opinions by keeping mine to myself.

Sorry, I don't want to sound overbearing. I like Happ, great composure, however, he was incredibly lucky at times last year. A lot of balls hit right at people.

Guy definitely has potential and I wouldn't mind keeping him, but if it means Happ over Drabek, I'm keeping Drabek.

[teddy]

Should be fun to watch Cliff Lee for one year.

[Drew Beringer]

really can't believe how this whole deal turned out. Insane.

[brentywat]

as a mariners fan, i'm just glad to see the team actually putting in an effort to be competitive over this off season. the team was coming together anyways with the pieces they already had, and then they added chone figgins and now cliff lee. i like this.

[aloneatlastnj]

really can't believe how this whole deal turned out. Insane.

as it's shaping up, it looks absolutely horrible. the phillies could get SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much more for lee than they're reportedly getting even if he'd be a one year rental.

[imirish06]

as a mariners fan, i'm just glad to see the team actually putting in an effort to be competitive over this off season. the team was coming together anyways with the pieces they already had, and then they added chone figgins and now cliff lee. i like this.

As a mariners fan I think you should just shut the hell up.



joking.

[Srsly]

Pretty happy.. For a while it sounded like the Phillies were gonna come out with Lee & a prospect for Halladay, $6M off his contract. And that the Jays were just gonna end up with a few okay prospects..

Now we just gotta move that Wells contract.

[pand75]

Pretty happy.. For a while it sounded like the Phillies were gonna come out with Lee & a prospect for Halladay, $6M off his contract. And that the Jays were just gonna end up with a few okay prospects..

Now we just gotta move that Wells contract.

Absolutely impossible

[Eich696]

Once again. If all this speculation is right. Fuck this trade and the front office. Amaro...

[Drew Beringer]

as it's shaping up, it looks absolutely horrible. the phillies could get SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much more for lee than they're reportedly getting even if he'd be a one year rental.
Initially I thought it was a good deal for the Phillies, but I didn't think that they were getting rid of Drabek, giving away Lee for nothing, and didn't think they would be dumb enough to not want a 1-2 punch of Halladay-Lee. Guess I was wrong, apologies to Justin, complaints were legit.

[aloneatlastnj]

Initially I thought it was a good deal for the Phillies, but I didn't think that they were getting rid of Drabek, giving away Lee for nothing, and didn't think they would be dumb enough to not want a 1-2 punch of Halladay-Lee. Guess I was wrong, apologies to Justin, complaints were legit.

i don't even really remember what all was said - my own comments included so i'm pretty sure i've contradicted myself multiple times. everything happened pretty freakin' fast today, but as the dust is settling sure the phillies have been getting an elite starting pitcher but everything surrounding that is just batshit insane.

as far as justin's complaints: rosenthal's hunch wasn't stupid. he was actually dead on with the speculation. is it right to report hunches and report it as such? probably not. but rosenthal isn't some bum beat writer or blogger. he's got the inside scoop and is the real deal as far as baseball reporting goes so i'm sure his "hunch" was more rooted in fact than a hunch you or i may have.

[Drew Beringer]

Oh I wasn't talking about the hunches, I was talking about when I asked if Philly fans were ever happy and why they always complain even though they just got a stud pitcher. Haha. At the time, it wasn't known that they gave Lee away for peanuts.

[aloneatlastnj]

Oh I wasn't talking about the hunches, I was talking about when I asked if Philly fans were ever happy and why they always complain even though they just got a stud pitcher. Haha. At the time, it wasn't known that they gave Lee away for peanuts.

i'm going back looking through all that happened/was discussed in a 3 1/2 hour period earlier today. just insaaaaaaane.

[Srsly]

[/b]

Absolutely impossible
1) Yea, I was hoping we'd move him with Halladay and get less.

2) I think you just beat my team in FF, congrats. :(

[StrictlyBiznas]

Going to bed and praying that Amaro comes to his senses. Hoping to wake up and find that this entire deal has fallen apart in the last few hours.

[Eich696]

Going to bed and praying that Amaro comes to his senses. Hoping to wake up and find that this entire deal has fallen apart in the last few hours.

this or lee to the mariners for prospects, then trade them to Toronto in return for Halladay.

[mht]

and I thought signing Polanco for 18 million was bad, then they go and do this. Philly sports starting to reflect the city pretty well lol.

[five inch taint]

The only reason why I hate this trade is because I am a Mets fan.

[BigG1392]

I think the Atlanta Braves management are sitting in their office smiling right now. Halladay is an upgrade over Lee, but if Philly really wanted Halladay in the fiirst place, why didn't they get him last year? They just wasted their prospects. Atlanta and Philly finished with the same record in the second half, Atlanta already has a better starting rotation than Philadelphia, even with Halladay. Now, with the trade/FA market for starting pitchers all but gone, Atlanta can move Derek Lowe and get some team (maybe the Angels) to take a huge chunk of his salary. If Atlanta can free up some money from Lowe's contract, I can definitely see them going after Bay or Holliday.

[Killadelphia]

i don't even really remember what all was said - my own comments included so i'm pretty sure i've contradicted myself multiple times. everything happened pretty freakin' fast today, but as the dust is settling sure the phillies have been getting an elite starting pitcher but everything surrounding that is just batshit insane.

as far as justin's complaints: rosenthal's hunch wasn't stupid. he was actually dead on with the speculation. is it right to report hunches and report it as such? probably not. but rosenthal isn't some bum beat writer or blogger. he's got the inside scoop and is the real deal as far as baseball reporting goes so i'm sure his "hunch" was more rooted in fact than a hunch you or i may have.

Yeah it was more rooted and he should have said the Phillies ownership group is too cheap to have possibly the best rotation in a long time for one year. His original hunch was the original mess. Not this garbage. This is getting to be as bad as the mess the Flyers did to trade for Pronger and then extend him.

[Killadelphia]

12:45am: Jason Churchill of Prospect Insider (http://prospectinsider.com/) has had this info for quite a while today - the Phillies will get Aumont, Gillies, and righty Juan Ramirez from Seattle.


11:33pm: Rosenthal reports (http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/6687161485) that the Phillies get $6MM from the Jays. Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor and probably Travis D'Arnaud are headed to Toronto, Rosenthal says. Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies and a third player are apparently headed to Philadelphia.


Fucking God awful. Why the fuck are we limited to only Seattle now?

[aloneatlastnj]

12:45am: Jason Churchill of Prospect Insider (http://prospectinsider.com/) has had this info for quite a while today - the Phillies will get Aumont, Gillies, and righty Juan Ramirez from Seattle.


11:33pm: Rosenthal reports (http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/6687161485) that the Phillies get $6MM from the Jays. Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor and probably Travis D'Arnaud are headed to Toronto, Rosenthal says. Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies and a third player are apparently headed to Philadelphia.


Fucking God awful. Why the fuck are we limited to only Seattle now?

what do you mean? that return from the mariners to the phillies is for cliff lee, no? that's why you're limited to seattle. who knows if seattle is sending anything to toronto? so far nothing of the sort has been reported. it's looking less and less like a 3 team trade than it's looking like a salary dump (lee) that is a necessary precursory move to acquiring halladay when it looks like philadelphia didn't even have to trade for lee in the first place.

[bigmike]

Yeah, going to retract all those arguments for this deal I made earlier. This is awful. I'm looking up the revenue for the Phillies at the moment.

[bigmike]

God the Phillies are cheap.

[aloneatlastnj]

God the Phillies are cheap.

i've already retracted what i was saying last night as well. the more info that comes out about this there are a bunch of things i don't agree on, but the cheapness of the phillies? that's one of the biggest things i'm taking issue with. i don't have exact numbers but i'd assume they've made a nice chunk of change in extra revenue from being a winning team for the last 3 or 4 years. why couldn't they stretch payroll for as long as halladay is around, keep lee for that last year (and it seems like they could still also trade for halladay), then when the 2010 off season comes around let lee walk. you get his talent and apparent domination of the NL for another year then you collect the draft picks and have halladay for the next 3. by that time halladay is still only 35 or 36 and can hit free agency again if he wants - netting philadelphia even more picks just a few years later.


i don't know man. this whole thing is just fucking confusing because the package from philly to toronto (taylor, drabek, d'arnaud) is VERY, VERY similar to the original deal ricciardi was asking for.

[IAmNietzche]

Amaro tried to deal Blanton last week to effect the salary dump they were looking for but there were no takers. To keep from being out a starting pitcher spot if they couldn't pull Halladay, they tendered a deal with Blanton. Now they have to dump Lee to come in under their self-imposed salary cap while at the same time giving up premium prospects. The deal is shit, especially when there are clear plans to have this team back in rebuilding mode in two years.

If the deal goes through as-is, they need to scrap this stupid "salary cap" idea and use the leftover salary to go after some relief.

[Killadelphia]

what do you mean? that return from the mariners to the phillies is for cliff lee, no? that's why you're limited to seattle. who knows if seattle is sending anything to toronto? so far nothing of the sort has been reported. it's looking less and less like a 3 team trade than it's looking like a salary dump (lee) that is a necessary precursory move to acquiring halladay when it looks like philadelphia didn't even have to trade for lee in the first place.

Seattle isn't sending anything to Toronto. So, we can trade Lee to any team. I'm sure we could get better prospects from Anaheim. Amaro has one good move and now he's ruining it on top of all of his other garbage moves.

[Killadelphia]

Also, Blanton could be moved for prospects. He wasn't moved because the return was not good enough to send to Toronto. Understandable. However, apparently this trade has no need for third team's prospects to send to Toronto. Keep Lee, move Blanton for shit. Go to World Series in 2010 or at least be top contender from NL.

Amaro is racking up his terrible Gm status and this move will cost him his job in 2-3 years.

I mean by showing how cheap the Phillies are it ensures this roster will be depleted heavily in the upcoming years.

[Killadelphia]

Halladay + money for Drabek, Taylor, d'Arnaud official.

Can still keep Lee. Be smart you cheap fucks.

[IAmNietzche]

Any chance another suitor for Lee pops up now that they see that the Phils are basically giving him away?

[IAmNietzche]

6. Juan Carlos Ramirez, RHSP
08/16/88 (21)
A+ High Desert
Watching Ramirez on the mound, you may feel like you’re looking at a couple of Seattle’s top pitching prospects of the last 6-7 years. His build and smooth throwing motion may remind you of Rafael Soriano while his mannerisms point to Felix Hernandez. While Ramirez gets top billing among Mariner pitchers on this list, he’s got a long way to go before he dominates big league hitters like Rafy and the King. Ramirez’ fastball has touched the mid 90s but sits closer to 91-92. Many believe there is more velocity tucked away in there, and I tend to agree. Based on his size and motion there is no reason that he can’t sit 93-94 consistently as he continues to fill out and mature physically. Ramirez repeats his delivery well for someone his age and has improved his command since debuting in the States in 2007. While his walk rates have spiked back up this season, I believe that has more to do with him nibbling more in arguably the most hitter friendly environment in affiliated baseball than a regression of skills. Ramirez’s secondary stuff needs work. His slider and changeup are well below average at this point. There have been reports in the past of a promising curveball, but based on the reports it’s unclear whether it’s something he still has in his arsenal. High Desert is a tough place for any pitcher, and it has certainly hurt his overall stat line. But a 3.66 road FIP hints that he’s handling the Cal League and should be ready for AA in 2010. Ramirez will not be a fast riser without dramatic improvement, but his ceiling as of now appears to be as a good middle of the rotation starter or a shut down reliever.

10. Phillippe Aumont, RHRP
01/07/89 (20)
AA West Tenn
The 2007 first rounder has some of the best pure stuff in the entire system. He has so-so command of a four seamer in the mid-upper 90s, a low-mid 90s two seamer with a ton of movement down and in to righties, and since raising his arm slot has come up with devastating two plane curveball. His mechanics are ugly and he has trouble repeating them, and may have lead to a degenerative hip condition that should keep him out of the starting rotation for the duration of his career. He’d be in the top five as a starter, but now that he’s clearly a reliever his stock falls. He’s still the number one relief prospect, and has the stuff and makeup to be a shut down closer. Aumont will pitch against some advanced competition in the Arizona Fall League, and should debut sometime in 2010. However, it wouldn’t be that surprising to to see him get a September callup this season if a spot on the 40-man roster opens up. The Mariners can use any extra arms, and it would benefit him to work with M’s pitching coach Rick Adair before heading off the the AFL.

23. Tyson Gillies, CF
10/31/88 (20)
A+ High Desert
Gillies is one of the Mariners’ most exciting prospects for one reason: his wheels. Gillies is the fastest runner in the system, and one of the fastest in affiliated baseball. I’ve seen his speed graded at an 80 on the 20-80 scale, and 80 grades are unheard of. His offensive game revolves around his speed, as he bunts and chops the ball into the ground more often than not. The physical tools are there to hit for a bit of power, and he’s started to drive the ball into the gaps a little more often, but I’d imagine he’ll stick to small ball until it fails him. Gillies has a good idea of the strikezone and draws a fair amount of walks. He has trouble making contact at times. Gillies is legally deaf, which makes it hard for him to get great jumps in the outfield at times, but his great speed more than makes up for it. He has above average range at all three outfield positions and one of the best outfield arms in the system, if not the best. Gillies can steal bases on raw speed, and his success rate should improve as he learns some technique. Gillies just about has the skills to be a big league fourth outfielder right now, and it’s safe to say he’ll be a full time big leaguer at some point. If he wants to be a starter he’ll have to learn to make more consistent and more solid contact. Some members of the Mariners player development department see him as a Curtis Granderson-type player.

[Killadelphia]

They're all low level which is the problem. Drabek was to replace blanton next year. Taylor was to replace Werth or ibanez in 2011.

Mlb ready talent. This is low level question marks and none of their top prospects at all. We have a boat load of hit or miss arms like rivera and aumond in the system. Gillies is no different than Gose.

[CubbyNick42]

Any chance another suitor for Lee pops up now that they see that the Phils are basically giving him away?
Good chance, I had that same thought. There should be 28 GMs burning up Amaro's line.

[aloneatlastnj]

Halladay + money for Drabek, Taylor, d'Arnaud official.

Can still keep Lee. Be smart you cheap fucks.

if i was philly i'd still shop lee around but intend to keep him unless a realllyyy nice package of players is offered. i don't know that anaheim has anything better than what philadelphia would reportedly get from seattle, but you have to think of 1) teams that could use a guy like lee 2) teams that could take his salary while at the same time 3) putting together a solid return.

maybe i'm overvaluing the shit out of lee or something. but i can immediately think of multiple packages from all those teams i mentioned that could trump what they might get from seattle. i can think of 8 or 9 teams total that could realistically give a competitive return. both LA teams, both NY teams, texas, seattle and MAYBE san francisco, atlanta or colorado.

you also have to keep in mind that the return won't be erik bedard-like. that was a major exception, definitely not the norm. and these teams are trading for a guy that will only help for a year and will more than likely test free agency.

if they really are shipping lee to the mariners and getting aumont/ramirez/gillies, i'd be pissed as a phillies fan. ramirez has a chance and the upside to break out but it's been said on various prospect sites that aumont and gillies probably won't be above average major league guys.

[aloneatlastnj]

They're all low level which is the problem. Drabek was to replace blanton next year. Taylor was to replace Werth or ibanez in 2011.

Mlb ready talent. This is low level question marks and none of their top prospects at all. We have a boat load of hit or miss arms like rivera and aumond in the system. Gillies is no different than Gose.

yeah i understand that completely. but are teams REALLY going to give up MLB-ready talent for what could end up being one year of lee? i think that even if his value is through the roof right now, the fact that he's said openly that he wants to see what he can get in free agency and that said team would only have him for one year kinda brings it down a little. i'd probably give up some mid-level guys that aren't so hit or miss for him, but there's no chance i offer top prospects.

[maxvsmaradona]

I do not approve of this trade.

[IAmNietzche]

if i was philly i'd still shop lee around but intend to keep him unless a realllyyy nice package of players is offered. i don't know that anaheim has anything better than what philadelphia would reportedly get from seattle, but you have to think of 1) teams that could use a guy like lee 2) teams that could take his salary while at the same time 3) putting together a solid return.

i can maybe think of 8 or 9 teams total that could realistically give a competitive package for lee. both LA teams, both NY teams, texas, seattle and MAYBE san francisco, atlanta or colorado.

you also have to keep in mind that the return won't be erik bedard-like. that was a major exception, definitely not the norm. and these teams are trading for a guy that will only help for a year and will more than likely test free agency.

if they really are shipping lee to the mariners and getting aumont/ramirez/gillies, i'd be pissed as a phillies fan. ramirez has a chance and the upside to break out but it's been said on various prospect sites that aumont and gillies probably won't be above average major league guys.

maybe i'm overvaluing the shit out of lee or something. but i can immediately think of multiple packages from all those teams i mentioned that could trump what they might get from seattle.
Not sure Atlanta would be in it 1) because the Phils likely won't send him within the division and 2) they have filled all of their pitching spots and are looking to deal Lowe. Braves have the deepest rotation in the league, bar-none.

[Killadelphia]

yeah i understand that completely. but are teams REALLY going to give up MLB-ready talent for what could end up being one year of lee? i think that even if his value is through the roof right now, the fact that he's said openly that he wants to see what he can get in free agency and that said team would only have him for one year kinda brings it down a little. i'd probably give up some mid-level guys that aren't so hit or miss for him, but there's no chance i offer top prospects.

The answer is keep the cheapest cy young on the market. Get 2 picks next year. Draft your own low level guys.

[aloneatlastnj]

The answer is keep the cheapest cy young on the market. Get 2 picks next year. Draft your own low level guys.

well if that's the answer, philadelphia surely flunked that test. halladay is taking a physical today and the deal is all but finished.

[Scott Weber]

Dr. Z and his magic trade wand!

[IAmNietzche]

well if that's the answer, philadelphia surely flunked that test. halladay is taking a physical today and the deal is all but finished.
Lee isn't officially part of this is he? The Mariners need to be cut out of this thing completely.

[aloneatlastnj]

Lee isn't officially part of this is he? The Mariners need to be cut out of this thing completely.

i feel like it's 2 separate deals because seattle isn't sending anyone to toronto - they're dealing with philly for lee, not including prospects to toronto to help foot the bill.

[IAmNietzche]

i feel like it's 2 separate deals because seattle isn't sending anyone to toronto - they're dealing with philly for lee, not including prospects to toronto to help foot the bill.
Yeah, that makes sense. Regardless, I refuse to believe the Phils are dumb enough to pull the trigger on dealing Lee to the M's.

[aloneatlastnj]

and if it's true that the phillies REALLY are dead fucking set on sticking to their self-imposed salary cap, one trade (getting rid of lee or blanton or whoever) had to have been the necessary precursor to the other (acquiring halladay).

seattle improves by getting cy young caliber production for below market value while giving up marginal talent.

toronto finally deals their ace and gets a fair return all things considered. makes it look less like a salary dump considering 2/3 of the guys are close to mlb-ready with upside.

philadelphia gets a less than stellar package with zero impact talent for shipping away lee. they sign one of the elite pitchers in baseball and finally nets them their righty ace and were able to extend him for a fair amount of years plus reported options for juuuust below what he could get as a free agent. their strong farm system is all but wiped out which puts them in a tricky situation past 2011.

instead of dishing out money on relievers and a bench guy, they probably could have kept lee. add up money owed to madson, romero, gload, etc. and i bet that just about equals the 9 mil cliff lee is owed in 2010.


dave cameron at fangraphs wrote up a similar article with his thoughts on the trade. pretty fair assessment in my opinion.

[guccimaneburrrr]

Not sure Atlanta would be in it 1) because the Phils likely won't send him within the division and 2) they have filled all of their pitching spots and are looking to deal Lowe. Braves have the deepest rotation in the league, bar-none.

red sox would like to differ

[aloneatlastnj]

red sox would like to differ

i think he meant national league. i don't know if he's right, but i'm sure there's a case to be made in favor of it.

even if he meant in all of major league baseball, again, i'm sure you could make a case for that opinion. i'd also put the the yankees and rays in that as well.

[IAmNietzche]

red sox would like to differ
If you assume Dice-K comes into the year healthy. That's a big assumption.

[xbrokendownx]

DiceK is their 4th starter.....

[mht]

lol

[imirish06]

Read on ESPN that Lee was interested in staying:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4745103

[captainamazing4]

this trade makes me sad. :(

[Killadelphia]

Amaro should lose his job immediately.

[Scott Weber]

Read on ESPN that Lee was interested in staying:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4745103
That's what Lee's agent gets for making absolutely bonkers demands, though. When you come straight out and say things like "we're not taking a discount" and that he wants CC Sabathia money or more, you scare off a franchise from even wanting to cross that bridge.

[IAmNietzche]

Buster Olney says the Jays will immediately deal outfielder Michael Taylor to Oakland for Ben Wallace. Here’s Beerleaguer maven, clout, on Wallace. “Wallace is one of the best hitting prospects in the minors. The question is his glove and if he moves to another position he becomes far less valuable. He combined for .293/.367/.455 with 20 HRs between AA/AAA last season. because being dealt to the A's he was Cardinals #2 prospect according to BA, just behind Rasmus. He's a heavy legged guy with an average arm, but I think he can be league average defensively at 3B. I think he'll hit .300 in the big leagues with 20-25 HR power.”

[guccimaneburrrr]

or brett wallace. ben wallace can't hit a free throw let alone a baseball.

[bigmike]

Buster Olney says the Jays will immediately deal outfielder Michael Taylor to Oakland for Ben Wallace. Here’s Beerleaguer maven, clout, on Wallace. “Wallace is one of the best hitting prospects in the minors. The question is his glove and if he moves to another position he becomes far less valuable. He combined for .293/.367/.455 with 20 HRs between AA/AAA last season. because being dealt to the A's he was Cardinals #2 prospect according to BA, just behind Rasmus. He's a heavy legged guy with an average arm, but I think he can be league average defensively at 3B. I think he'll hit .300 in the big leagues with 20-25 HR power.”
Brett Wallace.

[bigmike]

Phillies should've been smart and dealt off Brad Lidge after 2008. If they want to save money, one good way is to not dump $11.5 million for a reliever.

[Killadelphia]

Phillies should've been smart and dealt off Brad Lidge after 2008. If they want to save money, one good way is to not dump $11.5 million for a reliever.

$12.5 MM

[itsmesean0630]

It's like yeah am I happy to be getting one if not the best pitcher in baseball to play for my favorite team? Yes I'm happy. But at the same time, it seems like the Phillies have lost so much. Oh well, I'm not bitter in any way. I did really like Cliff Lee though.

[bigmike]

$12.5 MM
Wow. I cannot fathom that. I think I can handle my team dumping a bunch of prospects but I would flip my shit if my team ever paid a reliever more than like ... $8 mil in a season.

[Killadelphia]

Rosenthal's hunch >x400 than what is happening now.

[StrictlyBiznas]

Rosenthal's hunch >x400 than what is happening now.

His "hunch" was that we'd trade Lee to get prospects for Halladay so we could keep our own, correct?

[Killadelphia]

His "hunch" was that we'd trade Lee to get prospects for Halladay so we could keep our own, correct?

yup. It's clear that Drabek is only involved because we're getting cash from Toronto.

[Throwback]

This trade is infuriating. That's all I'll say for now.

[imirish06]

Xz5HB_Nd84c

[Killadelphia]

So some people and I want to start a website: Donate $5 to keep Lee. We need 1,000,000 people.

[Eich696]

So some people and I want to start a website: Donate $5 to keep Lee. We need 1,000,000 people.

Dude I would be willing to give 20.

[mht]

So some people and I want to start a website: Donate $5 to keep Lee. We need 1,000,000 people.


I'd do this if it was donate $5 to fire Eddie Jordan

[Killadelphia]

I'd do this if it was donate $5 to fire Eddie Jordan

Man, his system just does not fit for the Sixers at all.

[mht]

Man, his system just does not fit for the Sixers at all.


if that's a nicer way of saying he sucks, then yes I agree. But anyway, back to the Philly needs to keep their prospects and/or Lee discussion.

[imirish06]

I'm hoping this is all an episode of Modern Family and we're getting innocente'd

[imirish06]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/marinersblog/2010516843_phillippe_aumont_takes_p hysica.html

[Brownpants06]

Happy what the Jays got in return. McGowan/Romero/Drabek will make a nice top 3, if McGowan comes back healthy.

[Killadelphia]

Happy what the Jays got in return. McGowan/Romero/Drabek will make a nice top 3, if McGowan comes back healthy.

I hope Drabek goes 34-0 every season of his career.

[IAmNietzche]

What's infuriating is it looks like Rube couldn't make up his mind whether to play for the now or play for the future, so he split the difference and fucked us for both. If you are playing for the now (to win the WS in 2010 and 2011 before the team is decimated), then you hang on to Lee for another year.

He mortgaged he future of this team while at the same time locking up Halladay for three years and probably more.

[StuGrimson]

Happy what the Jays got in return. McGowan/Romero/Drabek will make a nice top 3, if McGowan comes back healthy.

Even without Halladay it still beats the rotation we started the season with in 2007 that inclued Gustaco Chacin, Tomo Ohka, Josh Towers and Victor Zambrano.

[pand75]

Don't forget Marcum, Cecil and Marc Rzepczynski

[mht]

it would be great if Drabek panned out as a good player and Toronto can't hold on to him so they just trade him to a powerhouse like the Yankees where he has a decent career and they pay him CC Sabathia type money.

[Killadelphia]

Ruben Amaro has been a terrible GM, but for some reason he'll get praise for bringing the team back.

Yes, he did make some good moves, sort of with Howard, but totally missed the boat with Hamels, not buying out any years of free agency.

Signing Werth and Madson were fairly decent moves when it looked like Madson was going to walk. Acquiring Lee/Francisco without giving up the top prospects.

Moyer, Ibanez, Polanco, Lidge extension (yes, idc what people say, Amaro was running the team at that point).

All of these shit ass overpay by a lot deals really fucked the Phillies for keeping Lee and that is why he and the owners need to bite the bullet on this one.

[Killadelphia]

Someone flunked a physical. I know Aumont had his physical recently. I'd assume it is one of the pitchers involved, they usually get the most extreme physicals.

[pand75]

Somebody failed their physical........

[StuGrimson]

One of the Jays reporters mentioned something a couple days ago about Aumont failing a physical but he also reported he was going to the Jays at that point

[Scott Weber]

Aumont, not Aumond.

[Killadelphia]

If it is Aumont, who else would the Mariners offer?

[Killadelphia]

Ms8rMqKxoXQ&feature=player_embedded

[Scott Weber]

Not Triunfel, that's for damn sure. Maybe Josh Fields or Michael Pineda.

[Eich696]

Not Triunfel, that's for damn sure. Maybe Josh Fields or Michael Pineda.

Lets hope this Cliff Lee to Seattle deal just falls through if thats the case.

[Killadelphia]

Not Triunfel, that's for damn sure. Maybe Josh Fields or Michael Pineda.

pass on Fields. Pineda looks decent. Wish we could swing Triunfel. Don't understand why Lee pulls in virtually no top tier prospects.

[Eich696]

pass on Fields. Pineda looks decent. Wish we could swing Triunfel. Don't understand why Lee pulls in virtually no top tier prospects.

Phillies arent playing it smart thats why. They keep telling people about how they can't keep both financially which leaves them absolutely no leverage.

[Kman223]

Does this effect that 72 hour window they were given?

[Eich696]

Does this effect that 72 hour window they were given?

What?

[pand75]

Hearing it's with Drabek

[Eich696]

Hearing it's with Drabek

Hearing its with Aumont...

[Kman223]

Nevermind I think that was to discuss a Halladay extension... there's so much going on I got it mixed up. Maybe Rube will come to his senses and the owners will allow Lee to stay, after seeing the fan backlash. Wishful thinking...

[Killadelphia]

Does this effect that 72 hour window they were given?

Phillies and Halladay already agreed.

[Kman223]

950 ESPN says its Aumont

[Killadelphia]

Hearing its with Aumont...

Not Aumont according to TSN

[Eich696]

Praying to god its Aumont and that the Phils owners pony up and decide to take the hit and keep Lee.

[StuGrimson]

Not Aumont according to TSN

TSN has nothing up about this where did you see that

[Kman223]

Not Aumont according to TSN

lm sick of all of these false rumors, 950 says Aumont TSN says its not, all within 5 min. Blame twitter

[Killadelphia]

TSN has nothing up about this where did you see that

twitter.

[Killadelphia]

Lauber is speculating it is Taylor cause of elbow issues in winter ball.

[Scott Weber]

Prospect Insider, which has been super reliable for M's news this offseason, says it is not Aumont.

Maybe the Phillies didn't know Tyson Gillies is deaf? Hahahaha

[pand75]

Is he really?

[StuGrimson]

Canadian press is now saying Aumont passed

I guess it makes sens its a Jay who failed based on all these reports coming from the Canadian media

[Killadelphia]

Prospect Insider, which has been super reliable for M's news this offseason, says it is not Aumont.

Maybe the Phillies didn't know Tyson Gillies is deaf? Hahahaha

Gillies didn't take a physical.

Looks like Drabek, Taylor, or Wallace.

[Scott Weber]

Is he really?
Yeah, he is.

[Eich696]

Yeah, he is.

GREAT.

[Killadelphia]

I guess it could be Ramirez too, which sucks. I actually prefer him over Aumont.

[Killadelphia]

GREAT.

he's legally deaf, but wears hearing aids in both ears.

[guccimaneburrrr]

Curtis Pride?

[StuGrimson]

If Drabek fails this will become a huge disaster as he is the main piece of the trade

[Eich696]

he's legally deaf, but wears hearing aids in both ears.

Nah I know, I was just kidding. I dont mind it.

[Eich696]

If Drabek fails this will become a huge disaster as he is the main piece of the trade

Haha yeah all hell will break loose. I think at this point if the deal falls through the Phillies have no chance at signing Lee because it seems that they have burned some bridges. In the end we will lose Halladay and Lee. Sweet.

[Killadelphia]

Haha yeah all hell will break loose. I think at this point if the deal falls through the Phillies have no chance at signing Lee because it seems that they have burned some bridges. In the end we will lose Halladay and Lee. Sweet.

Amaro's boner for Halladay is so fucking big, I don't think it matters. He's giving away 2 of his "untouchables" for him already.

[Scott Weber]

Could Happ step in for Drabek and eliminate the cash from the deal?

[Eich696]

Could Happ step in for Drabek and eliminate the cash from the deal?

Wish that was done in the first place.

[StuGrimson]

I dont think the Jays do this deal unless they get a pitcher back and I dont know how much they want Happ

[Killadelphia]

Could Happ step in for Drabek and eliminate the cash from the deal?

No, cause that means the Phillies will look to move another player.

[Killadelphia]

It is not Drabek...so Wallace, Taylor, or D'Arnaud.

Probably Taylor's elbow.

[aloneatlastnj]

Haha yeah all hell will break loose. I think at this point if the deal falls through the Phillies have no chance at signing Lee because it seems that they have burned some bridges. In the end we will lose Halladay and Lee. Sweet.

lee's agent was just on mlb home plate on satellite radio. dude says both he and cliff lee are pretty upset the phillies did it this way. said that everything that came out from the philly end about lee simply wasn't true and there were never any talks really; that the communication between the two sides was through the media rather than straight up talking to lee/his agent.

from the tone of his voice the bridge there is all but burned.

[Killadelphia]

lee's agent was just on mlb home plate on satellite radio. dude says both he and cliff lee are pretty upset the phillies did it this way. said that everything that came out from the philly end about lee simply wasn't true and there were never any talks really, that the communication between the two sides was through the media rather than straight up talking to lee/his agent.

from the tone of his voice the bridge there is all but burned.

I heard the Agent was on the WFAN as well and they asked questions they made it sound a little different and closer to what the Phillies said, somewhat about Lee's demands.

Regardless, Phillies would never extend Lee anyway. With their hard, self-imposed, NHL like cap, they can barely afford to even extend Halladay.

[aloneatlastnj]

I heard the Agent was on the WFAN as well and they asked questions they made it sound a little different and closer to what the Phillies said, somewhat about Lee's demands.

Regardless, Phillies would never extend Lee anyway.

weird. oh well.


and hahahahaha @ that video. that's almost like randy johnson and his first day in new york - i was expecting him to punch that guy in the face.

[Killadelphia]

In 2011, the Phillies have about $100 million committed to only 10 players.

[Scott Weber]

http://twitter.com/StoneLarry/status/6738404262

[Killadelphia]

Also, the trade will go through as is. The physical fail isn't deal breaking, which pretty means it wasn't Drabek.

[Killadelphia]

Will the Phillies be trading their May 18th Cliff Lee Bobbleheads for Roy Halladay bobbleheads?

[Killadelphia]

This is longer than trying to acquire Eric Lindros. Fuck, don't trade with Canada anymore.

[StuGrimson]

This is longer than trying to acquire Eric Lindros. Fuck, don't trade with Canada anymore.

Because the Phillies had to work out a contract extension and a Phillies player fails a physical?

[imirish06]

ToddZolecki (http://twitter.com/ToddZolecki) (http://absolutepunk.net/)
Failed physical won't kill this deal. An announcement is still expected today.

[imirish06]

JSalisburyCSN (http://twitter.com/JSalisburyCSN) (http://absolutepunk.net/)
Deal done!!!! 5 p.m. press conference.... who brings the hoagies???

[StuGrimson]

Globe and Mail Toronto says nobody actually failed the physical now so maybe thats why it is going through

[Killadelphia]

Ugh, hope for the best now.

[Scott Weber]

Presser at 5pm EST

[pand75]

sweet, can't wait.

[Killadelphia]

Scott, I assume you love knowing the Mariners just went Kobe all over Amaro, Jr.

[Scott Weber]

Scott, I assume you love knowing the Mariners just went Kobe all over Amaro, Jr.
GMZ says you got got!

[Killadelphia]

GMZ says you got got!

I told you this move was terrible from the start and I distinctly remember stating that no team would be willing to give what Toronto wanted for Cliff Lee.

[guccimaneburrrr]

Innocente!!!!!

[Scott Weber]

I told you this move was terrible from the start and I distinctly remember stating that no team would be willing to give what Toronto wanted for Cliff Lee.
:celebrate:

[Killadelphia]

:celebrate:

Guess it's time for you to eat some crow.

[Scott Weber]

Guess it's time for you to eat some crow.
Wait, wha?

[Killadelphia]

Wait, wha?

I was blasted on this site for calling the idea dumb from the start and cited the main reason why and it is what officially happened.

[Scott Weber]

I was blasted on this site for calling the idea dumb from the start and cited the main reason why and it is what officially happened.
You were blasted for saying it would never happen and that Rosenthal was an idiot, and rightfully so. How was anyone supposed to know the pieces that were involved?

Your eternal pessimism does not equal foresight.

[Killadelphia]

You were blasted for saying it would never happen and that Rosenthal was an idiot, and rightfully so. How was anyone supposed to know the pieces that were involved?

Your eternal pessimism does not equal foresight.

Well, Rosenthal's ultimate hunch never happened either.

Yes, they moved Lee, but it was hardly for the reasons he stated, which I said early, citing that there was barely any team that could offer more than the Phillies could for Halladay.

[Scott Weber]

Well, Rosenthal's ultimate hunch never happened either.

Yes, they moved Lee, but it was hardly for the reasons he stated, which I said early, citing that there was barely any team that could offer more than the Phillies could for Halladay.
Oh please. Pat yourself on the back if you need it. I don't want a stupid argument over this.


Anyone know when the press conferences will be for the other teams?

[StuGrimson]

After the Jays finalize the deal with Oakland then the press conference should be announced

[Eich696]

Fuck the Phillies front office...

[StuGrimson]

Jays press conference is at 4 eastern

EDIT: I guess the real press conference isnt yet, this is just some interview with bluejays.com

[pand75]

Yeah watching it right now. His voice bothers me.

[StuGrimson]

Yeah watching it right now. His voice bothers me.

He said he has a cold so I hope his voice isnt that bad all the time. He is from Montreal he shouldnt sound like he is from Jersey.

[Killadelphia]

Oh please. Pat yourself on the back if you need it. I don't want a stupid argument over this.


Anyone know when the press conferences will be for the other teams?

You have an unwillingness to say anyone else was right...

[Scott Weber]

You have an unwillingness to say anyone else was right...
What part of I don't want a stupid argument over this did you not understand?

[Killadelphia]

LOL, that'll be my response to you from now on.

[Killadelphia]

Because the Phillies had to work out a contract extension and a Phillies player fails a physical?

Extension was worked out in first 24 hours. Failed Physical was Brett Wallace -- shoulder.

[Killadelphia]

wow, Lee move was to replenish the cupboard with shit, not because they couldn't afford Lee according to Amaro.

[Killadelphia]

Amaro - "We feel J.C. Ramirez, TROY Gillies, and Phipillipe Aumont will replenish the farm system"

Dude can't even pronounce the players he acquired or say their first names correctly.

[Scott Weber]

LOL, that'll be my response to you from now on.
And then I'll just boot you. Sound good?

[pand75]

Are you kidding French Media?

I'm sure they just asked AA why they didn't acquire Canadian players. Fuck that bullshit.

AA responded said that Jays had success with Delgado and the Expos had Pedro and Vlad. We wanted to acquire the best players available and they aren't Canadian.