dark side of the moon as performed by flaming lips>pink floyd

[x togepi x]

this album rules. disagree with me and i know you're a boring old man/lame pot head.

it has henry rollins on it.

[SickOfStars]

I can't wait to hear this.

some of us lame pot heads are okay, dick :-p

[x togepi x]

you can smoke weed and not like boring old man music. i mean, that's like half the reason sunn o)) exists

[murrich]

I like that song that Roger Waters does with Van Morrison and The Band, other than that I find them pretty boring.

[GhostFight]

i wish i could disagree with you but i havent heard it yet so i will have to wait until later to disagree with you.

[SickOfStars]

you can smoke weed and not like boring old man music. i mean, that's like half the reason sunn o)) exists

I'm more of an Isis guy, but I will agree that sometimes Sunn hits the spot

[love_american_style]

blasphemy

[EastCoastLights]

what is rollins' role on this? how often does he show up?

[theguy77]

well the flaiming lips ARE a better band than pink floyd...

[GhostFight]

well the flaiming lips ARE a better band than pink floyd...
woah, controversy.


make it stop.

[theguy77]

I'm more of an Isis guy, but I will agree that sometimes Sunn hits the spot

isis is sweet. my roomie showed me some of their stuff. i found out my former opinion about metal was completely ignorant and irrational and that there is stuff out there that i can consider inspired, tasteful, and artistic.

[oddwithoutend]

well the flaiming lips ARE a better band than pink floyd...
Easy there, slugger.

I'm excited to hear this album.

[RX XR]

weak effort

[theguy77]

woah, controversy.

make it stop.

honestly i feel like the only reason pink floyd would receive so much more reverence is because society is far enough past their time to consider them a "classic", and people are reluctant to compare any band that's still going right now to a classic, for fear of being perceived as ignorant to the former band's legacy. in 20 years, though, the flaming lips will likely be perceived as a classic of THIS generation (and the 90s), and it won't at all be controversial to declare that they made better music than another classic. so, realistically, what's the difference in calling it now, especially since the flaming lips have already established a legacy and though it hasnt aged much they are a very influential and prominent alternative/psychedelic band of our time?

[theguy77]

Easy there, slugger.

I'm excited to hear this album.

todd?

[oddwithoutend]

honestly i feel like the only reason pink floyd would receive so much more reverence is because society is far enough past their time to consider them a "classic", and people are reluctant to compare any band that's still going right now to a classic, for fear of being perceived as ignorant to the former band's legacy. in 20 years, though, the flaming lips will likely be perceived as a classic of THIS generation (and the 90s), and it won't at all be controversial to declare that they made better music than another classic. so, realistically, what's the difference in calling it now, especially since the flaming lips have already established a legacy and though it hasnt aged much they are a very influential and prominent alternative/psychedelic band of our time?
I'd say they aren't relatively close to being as influential as Pink Floyd.

[oddwithoutend]

todd?
ha No, it's just common knowledge that getting called slugger is one of the most irritating things you can say to a guy.

[theguy77]

I'd say they aren't relatively close to being as influential as Pink Floyd.

meh. but is there really even enough room to be that influential in the modern age, considering the explosion of underground music via the internet among other things?

[captainamazing4]

can't wait to listen to this!

[SickOfStars]

isis is sweet. my roomie showed me some of their stuff. i found out my former opinion about metal was completely ignorant and irrational and that there is stuff out there that i can consider inspired, tasteful, and artistic.

dude when you hear pelican you're going to shit :-D

[oddwithoutend]

meh. but is there really even enough room to be that influential in the modern age, considering the explosion of underground music via the internet among other things?
Probably not. It's highly anachronistic to compare the bands in terms of quality though, so I won't.

[theguy77]

dude when you hear pelican you're going to shit :-D

oh yeah hes showed me them too, they're fantastic. i like them better now than i did when they opened for thrice a year ago. lol

and though the vocals turned me off at first i can say im fond of baroness as well. also looking to get into kayo dot because i heard a few songs that i loved.

[love_american_style]

dude when you hear pelican you're going to shit :-D

hella

[dissident]

the flaming lips and pink floyd are both pretty fucking terrible.

[TheByrus]

I can't wait til Miley covers Dark Side of the Moon

[new_arbiter]

Listening to this at the moment. It's a nice take on it, for sure.

[liar23]

the flaming lips and pink floyd are both pretty fucking terrible.
Yes.

[ruffian]

you can smoke weed and not like boring old man music. i mean, that's like half the reason sunn o)) exists

lol

and the original dark side is one of the few albums that i feel is actually played out to the point where i don't want to hear it. especially when i'm on acid.

[briewer]

Ryan's right, the Flaming Lips are wayyyy better than Pink Floyd.

[GhostFight]

its definitely a sick take on the album, im about half way through. im not too huge on the lip's grimey garage-ey sound lately though, i probably would have liked it much more if it were recorded around the soft bulliten / zaireeka era.

[fake empire]

Where can I hear this?

[GuitarR0cker1]

I need to hear this.

[timb89]

well the flaiming lips ARE a better band than pink floyd...

vocally maybe not. i haven't heard all music of either bands but wayne coyne has a mediocre voice. still an amazing musician. when is this cd coming out anyone? it will be interesting to see who sings the improvised bit on great gig in the sky.

[ruffian]

vocally maybe not. i haven't heard all music of either bands but wayne coyne has a mediocre voice. still an amazing musician. when is this cd coming out anyone? it will be interesting to see who sings the improvised bit on great gig in the sky.

it's only gonna be a digital release i believe. out on itunes today, everywhere else next week.

[summer skin]

Dark Side of the Moon performed by DMX > Pink Floyd

[ruffian]

i'll see you WOOFWOOOF on the dark side WOOOFWOOOOF of the moon GROWWWWWL

[x togepi x]

honestly i feel like the only reason pink floyd would receive so much more reverence is because society is far enough past their time to consider them a "classic", and people are reluctant to compare any band that's still going right now to a classic, for fear of being perceived as ignorant to the former band's legacy. in 20 years, though, the flaming lips will likely be perceived as a classic of THIS generation (and the 90s), and it won't at all be controversial to declare that they made better music than another classic. so, realistically, what's the difference in calling it now, especially since the flaming lips have already established a legacy and though it hasnt aged much they are a very influential and prominent alternative/psychedelic band of our time?

I don't think flaming lips will be a classic unless we're talking about in a different sense but this times a thousand

I'd say they aren't relatively close to being as influential as Pink Floyd.

That's because Pink Floyd is old. Their influence really belongs to all the avant garde bands who created the techniques that this oh so innovative band borrowed. They're like radiohead, only bad at writing music for most of their albums.

it's like if radiohead came out with ok computer and kid a first and then decided to release a ton of boring pablo honey albums.

dude when you hear pelican you're going to shit :-D

he's going to shit all over himself wondering how such a terrible drummer could be in a good band.

I can't wait til Miley covers Dark Side of the Moon

I would buy this on picture vinyl

lol

and the original dark side is one of the few albums that i feel is actually played out to the point where i don't want to hear it. especially when i'm on acid.

on acid? dude that's what piper is for. buy that shit and blast off.

its definitely a sick take on the album, im about half way through. im not too huge on the lip's grimey garage-ey sound lately though, i probably would have liked it much more if it were recorded around the soft bulliten / zaireeka era.

I'd probably like it more too if it were like that, but I still like most of the new pink floyd albums.

[summer skin]

Pink Floyd suck my dick btw.
2nd Worst band everyone thinks you have to like behind Queen.
After Syd Barrett left they're worthless.
Fight me.

[anthonydarko]

I would like to hear this.

[xJesusFreakx]

isis is sweet. my roomie showed me some of their stuff. i found out my former opinion about metal was completely ignorant and irrational and that there is stuff out there that i can consider inspired, tasteful, and artistic.

Wait, you used to assume metal couldn't have any of those traits? Wow.

[MyWorldEntire]

Oh hey, two bands I can't stand.

[gr33ndayfr3ak]

Pink Floyd suck my dick btw.
2nd Worst band everyone thinks you have to like behind Queen.
After Syd Barrett left they're worthless.
Fight me.

I find this a little ridiculous. I (and I'm sure many others) think you should like both Floyd and Queen based almost entirely on their influence on (most likely) at least one artist you listen to. You don't have to like them, but you should at least respect them.

[summer skin]

I find this a little ridiculous. I (and I'm sure many others) think you should like both Floyd and Queen based almost entirely on their influence on (most likely) at least one artist you listen to. You don't have to like them, but you should at least respect them.
queen has literally no good songs.

[gr33ndayfr3ak]

queen has literally no good songs.

Queen is one of my favorite bands ever, so I'm a little biased. What all have you listened to?

[summer skin]

Queen is one of my favorite bands ever, so I'm a little biased. What all have you listened to?
every one of their songs ever.

[gr33ndayfr3ak]

every one of their songs ever.

Guess they're just not your taste then. You're missing out.

[summer skin]

Guess they're just not your taste then. You're missing out.
not really, the singer died of aids so I doubt they'll be releasing new material.

[gr33ndayfr3ak]

not really, the singer died of aids so I doubt they'll be releasing new material.

Doesn't mean you can't give their older material another shot.

[dissident]

i don't trust people who don't like queen. not liking Under Pressure should be a crime.

[summer skin]

i don't trust people who don't like queen. not liking Under Pressure should be a crime.
song is only good because of bowie.

[SickOfStars]

he's going to shit all over himself wondering how such a terrible drummer could be in a good band.

Hmm, never really bothered me, but I suppose the drumming's simplistic.

[theguy77]

vocally maybe not. i haven't heard all music of either bands but wayne coyne has a mediocre voice. still an amazing musician. when is this cd coming out anyone? it will be interesting to see who sings the improvised bit on great gig in the sky.

wayne's vocals never bothered me. they suit his music and only assist in making it distinctive. you know, for a band like the flaming lips, you really dont want a generic singer fronting them, because that'd be an injustice for the crazy things they do with their music. they're a lot better off with a vocalist that sounds like no other.

Wait, you used to assume metal couldn't have any of those traits? Wow.

most of the metal i had been exposed to didn't sound that way to me. that doesnt necessarily mean that it wasnt artistic and inspired, but i was speaking in terms of my perception. most the metal i'd heard just sounded like a bro-gimmick to me but that was likely due to ignorance and lack of exposure.

[xJesusFreakx]

most of the metal i had been exposed to didn't sound that way to me. that doesnt necessarily mean that it wasnt artistic and inspired, but i was speaking in terms of my perception. most the metal i'd heard just sounded like a bro-gimmick to me but that was likely due to ignorance and lack of exposure.

Ha, at least you admit it was ignorant. ;-) With some of the bands out there, I suppose I can see how you'd jump to that generalization.

[kwsqd]

I guess I need to listen to this. Disagree with the thread title, but I'll listen.

[oddwithoutend]

That's because Pink Floyd is old. Their influence really belongs to all the avant garde bands who created the techniques that this oh so innovative band borrowed. They're like radiohead, only bad at writing music for most of their albums.

it's like if radiohead came out with ok computer and kid a first and then decided to release a ton of boring pablo honey albums.
ha Yeah, makes sense.

[crackedthesky]

I don't see the Flaming Lips ever being anywhere NEAR the level of Pink Floyd, but I personally don't like the Flaming Lips :shurg:

[x togepi x]

i'm glad jeff got unbanned for the holidays. IT'S A FESTIVUS MIRACLE.

[briewer]

I don't see the Flaming Lips ever being anywhere NEAR the level of Pink Floyd, but I personally don't like the Flaming Lips :shurg:
Boo.

i'm glad jeff got unbanned for the holidays. IT'S A FESTIVUS MIRACLE.
Yay.

[SickOfStars]

I love jeff

[kwsqd]

i'm glad jeff got unbanned for the holidays. IT'S A FESTIVUS MIRACLE.
Togepi, you couldn't smooth a silk sheet if you had a hot date with a babe!

[Kid B]

This is really good. I don't know why I'm surprised.

[crackedthesky]

Boo.


Yay.


I don't hate them, or anything. Just not my particular cup of tea, whereas I quite literally grew up with Pink Floyd in my life.

[crackedthesky]

After doing a bit of research on this, I'm actually liking the idea more and more. I've always wondered why bands don't cover entire albums, and the Flaming Lips appear to be doing it just seriously enough to get the foot in the door, but still being relaxed enough to where people don't have to flip shit over it. I may end up checking this out.

[x togepi x]

Togepi, you couldn't smooth a silk sheet if you had a hot date with a babe!

you don't know how true this rings. I have silk sheets. they're always fucked up.

who makes their bed? seriously.

[bard]

i'm glad jeff got unbanned for the holidays. IT'S A FESTIVUS MIRACLE.
i was going to see the christmas decorations around a neighborhood with my little niece and nephew, and one house had a silver pole with a Happy Festivus sign at the bottom of it.

made the whole night totally worth it.

[IWasaCamera]

Haven't heard this and already agree.

[cshadows2887]

After doing a bit of research on this, I'm actually liking the idea more and more. I've always wondered why bands don't cover entire albums, and the Flaming Lips appear to be doing it just seriously enough to get the foot in the door, but still being relaxed enough to where people don't have to flip shit over it. I may end up checking this out.

Before you get too excited about the bands covering albums kick, just know Cheap Trick covered Sgt. Pepper's in it's entirety. It isn't always a cool idea.

[kwsqd]

you don't know how true this rings. I have silk sheets. they're always fucked up.

who makes their bed? seriously.
THEY DROVE MY FAMILY RIGHT OUT OF BAYSIDE SIR!

x

[AlinA82688]

i think the idea of this is so cool...haven't listened yet but can't wait to

[crackedthesky]

Before you get too excited about the bands covering albums kick, just know Cheap Trick covered Sgt. Pepper's in it's entirety. It isn't always a cool idea.

I never cared for Cheap Trick :shrug:
Wasn't implying it would be always great, though. But there are definitely some thing I'd love to hear.

[mmmmmpoetry]

That album sucks anyways.

[wesgemm08]

The cover of 'money' is not good. The rest of the album is great.

[summer skin]

i'm glad jeff got unbanned for the holidays. IT'S A FESTIVUS MIRACLE.

I love jeff
Aww you're gonna make this ol' gal blush!

[SickOfStars]

Aww you're gonna make this ol' gal blush!

;-)

[cshadows2887]

I never cared for Cheap Trick :shrug:
Wasn't implying it would be always great, though. But there are definitely some thing I'd love to hear.

Aw that's too bad. Though I guess their brand of power-pop isn't something everyone can love. But I was pretty sure it was impossible to dislike "Surrender."

[theguy77]

Haven't heard this and already agree.

hahahaha

[theguy77]

Pink Floyd suck my dick btw.
2nd Worst band everyone thinks you have to like behind Queen.
After Syd Barrett left they're worthless.
Fight me.

please fuck me. hard.

[blebbio]

Is this really that good?

[crackedthesky]

Aw that's too bad. Though I guess their brand of power-pop isn't something everyone can love. But I was pretty sure it was impossible to dislike "Surrender."

Haven't heard it. Maybe I'll check it out.

[heyzombiehitler]

i listened to it a few times the other day at work. it really is THAT good.

[kearn1tm]

I've never heard Pink Floyd, but this album bored Seanbaby. I take most of my life lessons from Seanbaby.

[GhostFight]

I've never heard Pink Floyd

???

[summer skin]

please fuck me. hard.
done and done.

[kearn1tm]

???

&&&

[poppa Q]

Is this really that good?

I don't think "it" being "that" good is the point.

[TheOtherAndrew]

woah, controversy.


make it stop.
Its only controversial to preppy 15 year olds who just discovered their dad's album collection.

[jbaseball44]

Downloading this now, excited to listen.

[will_to_burn]

Is this a download only release, or is there a CD copy?
Sorry if the answer's been posted, too lazy.

[mmmmmpoetry]

Pink Floyd suck my dick btw.
2nd Worst band everyone thinks you have to like behind Queen.
After Syd Barrett left they're worthless.
Fight me.

ACCURACY FTW

[Brokenhill]

well the flaiming lips ARE a better band than pink floyd...

OP and this:

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[Wisdom Tooth]

I'm just going to go ahead and say it. Pink Floyd might be one of the most overrated bands of all time and the Flaming Lips just suck.

[theguy77]

lol i knew it was only a matter of time before steven had something to say about this. and i knew i'd get quoted too.

[oliviaemmer]

Ryan's right, the Flaming Lips are wayyyy better than Pink Floyd.
this.

[wuduprod]

the only cool thing about pink floyd is that black strat with the shortened tremolo bar. othere than that, that band is overrated garbage.

[theguy77]

I'm just going to go ahead and say it. Pink Floyd might be one of the most overrated bands of all time and the Flaming Lips just suck.

the flaming lips are so much better than so many other bands who are as popular as they are.

[Wisdom Tooth]

the flaming lips are so much better than so many other bands who are as popular as they are.

Just because there better then another "popular" band still doesn't make them good.

[theguy77]

Just because there better then another "popular" band still doesn't make them good.

just comparing apples to apples :shrug:

they're probably better than your favorite band too.

[Brokenhill]

lol i knew it was only a matter of time before steven had something to say about this. and i knew i'd get quoted too.

Yours was the first one I saw or else it would have included IWasACamera's and whoever elses.

[iSasquatchh]

Indie hipsters keep me up at night.. :-(

[Brokenhill]

I don't even need to listen to this to explain why the original is better, but i'll be hearing it sometime this week and then probably coming back here and dishing it out.

[Wisdom Tooth]

just comparing apples to apples :shrug:

they're probably better than your favorite band too.


Well of course your going to say that. But as far as stage shows no band will top gwar I'm sorry.

[theguy77]

Well of course your going to say that. But as far as stage shows no band will top gwar I'm sorry.

hold on, i'll respond to you as soon as im done laughing

[jbaseball44]

Like it better than Floyd's. Not a surprise since i've never loved their work.

[theguy77]

Well of course your going to say that. But as far as stage shows no band will top gwar I'm sorry.

whew, thanks for that.

anyway, the flaming lips put on the best live show of any band i listen to or have listened to in my life. fact. seriously watch a youtube video or read about it on wikipedia or something.

[Wisdom Tooth]

hold on, i'll respond to you as soon as im done laughing

Take your time I'm going to go make a sandwich.

[wuduprod]

what do you put on a vegan sandwich? sounds like no fun to me. but i'd probably enjoy it more than a flaming lips album so... win.

[theguy77]

guys, sealab 2021 is not that great of a show. dont you two have anything better to do in cleveland?

[cshadows2887]

Well of course your going to say that. But as far as stage shows no band will top gwar I'm sorry.

Hahaha. I get jokes.

[Wisdom Tooth]

guys, sealab 2021 is not that great of a show. dont you two have anything better to do in cleveland?

Clearly you have never been to Cleveland.

[theguy77]

Clearly you have never been to Cleveland.

hahaha. could always be worse than here i guess.

[wuduprod]

guys, sealab 2021 is not that great of a show. dont you two have anything better to do in cleveland?

i'm currently in Buffalo. so, no.

Hahaha. I get jokes.

i think you very well may be the only one.

[briewer]

lol @ you clowns hating on the Flaming Lips.

[Genuma]

actually sealab is pretty amazing.

[x togepi x]

I don't even need to listen to this to explain why the original is better, but i'll be hearing it sometime this week and then probably coming back here and dishing it out.

You like the original better because you're a mindless fanboy.

Nobody will ever care what you think about anything.

[briewer]

You like the original better because you're a mindless fanboy.

Nobody will ever care what you think about anything.
I was waiting for this response...

[oddwithoutend]

You like the original better because you're a mindless fanboy.

Nobody will ever care what you think about anything.
haha

[x togepi x]

he should spend less time hating the gays and more time listening to worthwhile music.

BUT HE'S OUT OF ROOM ON HIS WALLS, WHERE WILL HE HANG HIS NEW FAVORITE BAND'S VINYL?

[Brokenhill]

he should spend less time hating the gays and more time listening to worthwhile music.

BUT HE'S OUT OF ROOM ON HIS WALLS, WHERE WILL HE HANG HIS NEW FAVORITE BAND'S VINYL?

All the music I listen to is worthwhile.

First of all, that "joke" should have never started in the first place because I never actually said that, what I said was display them on a shelf until I eventually was able to purchase a turntable to listen to them. I only have 3 records right now anyway. Also, I can't foresee anyother band coming remotely close to Pink Floyd for me...they're music, background, history, and almost all things related to them are far too intersting.

Like I said before, i'm a fanboy for a reason. There is no band like Pink Floyd.

[x togepi x]

All the music I listen to is worthwhile.

Pink Floyd sucks so that argument is flawed. A band that released the final cut or the wall does not get to be considered worthwhile music. I'd give you a free pass if you smoked a lot of weed in your garage but since you're lame, we both know that isn't true.



First of all, that "joke" should have never started in the first place because I never actually said that, what I said was display them on a shelf until I eventually was able to purchase a turntable to listen to them. I only have 3 records right now anyway. Also, I can't foresee anyother band coming remotely close to Pink Floyd for me...they're music, background, history, and almost all things related to them are far too intersting.

Like I said before, i'm a fanboy for a reason. There is no band like Pink Floyd.

I'm glad there aren't more bands like Pink Floyd. The world would be a worse place.

get out of threads where the adults are talking.

http://cdn.nextround.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/salt_thesnail.gif

[GuitarR0cker1]

guys, sealab 2021 is not that great of a show. dont you two have anything better to do in cleveland?
ysmLA5TqbIY

[Dr. Acula]

Salt the snail!

[Brokenhill]

Pink Floyd sucks so that argument is flawed. A band that released the final cut or the wall does not get to be considered worthwhile music. I'd give you a free pass if you smoked a lot of weed in your garage but since you're lame, we both know that isn't true.

'The Wall' is a genuine masterpiece. 'The Final Cut' is pretty average, but that doesn't tear down on the rest of their discog.
Yea, they other just "decent" releases, but the good way way wayyyy outweighs the bad.

Drugs are lame, PF is best when sober anyway.

[x togepi x]

'The Wall' is a genuine masterpiece. 'The Final Cut' is pretty average, but that doesn't tear down on the rest of their discog.
Yea, they other just "decent" releases, but the good way way wayyyy outweighs the bad.


the wall=filler bonanza.


Drugs are lame, PF is best when sober anyway.

The fact that you say this proves you don't understand the very band you claim to be in love with. stop being a poseur.

[Brokenhill]

the wall=filler bonanza.

The fact that you say this proves you don't understand the very band you claim to be in love with. stop being a poseur.

Filler doesn't even really apply to concept albums, especially when the band is one which mainly creates concept albums.

Drugs really only had an influence on 'Piper', and pretty much only with Syd.

[dissident]

listening to floyd sober has to be so tedious.

[x togepi x]

Filler doesn't even really apply to concept albums

Care to explain how it doesn't, there champ?

especially when the band is one which mainly creates concept albums.

Do you like Black Metal?

Tons of black metal cds are concept albums. following your logic, every black metal cd must be amazing.

Drugs really only had an influence on 'Piper', and pretty much only with Syd.

Considering the fact that I'm actually a musician who does drugs and plays music instead of a lame biblethumping poseur, I think I'd know what i'm talking about.

Even then, The loss of Syd effected the band their entire career, but you would already know that if you were a fan.

but you're also forgetting the fact that Dark Side of The Moon is inherently tied to drug use in popular culture. as well as the fact that The Flaming Lips have a history with drug use, so their take on the album is inherently tied to drug use. To claim "drugs are lame" makes you an ignorant observer who has absolutely no point in the discussion of Flaming Lips covering Pink Floyd. it would be like if i wanted to talk about Punk rock and said that guitars and politics are lame.

[Brokenhill]

listening to floyd sober has to be so tedious.

http://www.last.fm/user/Floyd_4_Life

That's not even 25% of my total plays, and I have yet to get bored.

[Brokenhill]

Care to explain how it doesn't, there champ?

Because "filler" was basically coined for bands who already had a few hit singles having to fill up space on a record. So bands who write song-to-song (them being independent) would be susceptible to filler. The point of a concept album is not to have singles available for release.

Do you like Black Metal?

Tons of black metal cds are concept albums. following your logic, every black metal cd must be amazing.
No, and no, it just wouldn't be filler. Just because something isn't filler doesn't mean it's good.

Even then, The loss of Syd effected the band their entire career, but you would already know that if you were a fan.
Yea, I know.
but you're also forgetting the fact that Dark Side of The Moon is inherently tied to drug use in popular culture. as well as the fact that The Flaming Lips have a history with drug use, so their take on the album is inherently tied to drug use. To claim "drugs are lame" makes you an ignorant observer who has absolutely no point in the discussion of Flaming Lips covering Pink Floyd. it would be like if i wanted to talk about Punk rock and said that guitars and politics are lame.
I'm just saying personally drugs are lame, not that they couldn't have a positive affect on music. Obviously, look at 'Piper'.

[theguy77]

let me be first to vouch for the notion that while the things you write will often be a lot more self-indulgent and a lot less concise, you can come up with so many more expressive ideas when you're high.

don't try writing pop that way though. hahaha

[x togepi x]

Because "filler" was basically coined for bands who already had a few hit singles having to fill up space on a record.

One could make the argument that songs like another brick in the wall were meant for radio play and not worthy of being on the record. in fact, many people have claimed the wall would have been better as a single album instead of a double.

So bands who write song-to-song (them being independent) would be susceptible to filler.

Nothing in your logic makes "writing filler" and "writing a concept" mutually exclusive. A band can write a concept album that is marketable.

The point of a concept album is not to have singles available for release.

see above, plus the fact that something can be part of a "concept" and still be considered filler.

If I wrote a novel about two people falling in love, but had chapter upon chapter just talking about them banging before I go on with the rest of the plot, a critic could say that some of those chapters are filler even though they're part of the story and not meant to be stripped from it/looked at separately. You can make the same case about the songs on the wall.


No, and no, it just wouldn't be filler. Just because something isn't filler doesn't mean it's good.

except for your argument here is that concept can't be filler, and many people use the word filler to denote songs that aren't good but merely take up space on the record.

Yea, I know.

apparently you don't.

I'm just saying personally drugs are lame, not that they couldn't have a positive affect on music. Obviously, look at 'Piper'.

You're just saying...a lot of shit that has no bearing on this conversation. get out of the thread.

[Brokenhill]

One could make the argument that songs like another brick in the wall were meant for radio play and not worthy of being on the record. in fact, many people have claimed the wall would have been better as a single album instead of a double.
Nothing in your logic makes "writing filler" and "writing a concept" mutually exclusive. A band can write a concept album that is marketable.
see above, plus the fact that something can be part of a "concept" and still be considered filler.
How would one know, they didn't write it. Of course concept albums almost always contain singles, but that doesn't mean it was the band's initial intent. Many times the band looks at their complete product (we'll take DSOTM for example), and they select a song or 2 to be available as a single (pressured by the label) - they chose "Money" AFTER DSOTM was complete, according to Roger.

My general point is that if a band's intentions are to write a concept or story album, you can't use the term filler for songs because their intent wasn't to release standalone product(s). You may be able to pinpoint filler-ish songs if they repeat something previously brought up to an unreasonable extent, but for the majority, each song has it's place and it all fits together as once complete piece.
Going by your line of thought, GYBE is mostly filler.
If I wrote a novel about two people falling in love, but had chapter upon chapter just talking about them banging before I go on with the rest of the plot, a critic could say that some of those chapters are filler even though they're part of the story and not meant to be stripped from it/looked at separately. You can make the same case about the songs on the wall.
Yea but first of all, you can't equate books to albums - the analogy is similar enough for this argument, but an album has more leeway. So on that you could argue that filler-ish stuff could exist if it's really repetative - but in terms of 'The Wall' there is no such scenario.
except for your argument here is that concept can't be filler, and many people use the word filler to denote songs that aren't good but merely take up space on the record.

Well those people aren't using the term "filler" completely correct then.

[Brokenhill]

Can't you ever just admit your even partially wrong? And can you ever not take a discussion to a personal level and just reply 1 for 1?

[Brokenhill]

And i'd think i'd know a bit more about PF then you if i've been reading into them/their music for 4 years, including a 400+ page personal history and a biogrophy of Syd Barrett.

[nkalldayyy]

the only album I can appreciate by Pink Floyd is The Wall. so, I guess I agree.

[dissident]

i got really stoned and saw it at a movie theater once. it was strange and i was entertained, but QVC would have entertained me at that point too. it certainly didn't change my opinion that pink floyd is 90% self indulgent boring garbage.

[x togepi x]

How would one know, they didn't write it.

this proves my point.

Of course concept albums almost always contain singles, but that doesn't mean it was the band's initial intent.

intent means nothing because we can't hop on a plane and ask the dudes why they did it. you look at the end product.

be realistic here: how many bands are going to honestly sit there and say they write filler songs?

but more importantly: SOMETHING CAN BE FILLER AND NOT MEANT TO BE FILLER. take my writing example: if i wrote the chapters about them banging, i could have just been a poor novelist and honestly thought they a purpose in the story. i don't think many bands sit down and try to write filler. they just write things that end up being filler.

My general point is that if a band's intentions are to write a concept or story album, you can't use the term filler for songs because their intent wasn't to release standalone product(s).

see above, artistic intention doesn't take into consideration talent or how successful the piece of art is at fulfilling its purpose.

You may be able to pinpoint filler-ish songs if they repeat something previously brought up to an unreasonable extent, but for the majority, each song has it's place and it all fits together as once complete piece.

If i can pinpoint "filler-ish" songs, then there's filler on the album. I never contended that it doesn't "fit into the whole" merely that the whole would be better without it. My chapters about banging fit in the whole.

Going by your line of thought, GYBE is mostly filler.

i would contend the opposite, which is why we're going to have to add godspeed to the list of bands who you completely don't understand.

Yea but first of all, you can't equate books to albums

first off? why not?

secondly, it makes sense as your claim is that a concept album is somehow unique because it has a concept. lit also does.

- the analogy is similar enough for this argument, but an album has more leeway.

Have you written an album and a novel?

I've written an album, i'm working on a novel. They're different in as much as they are different mediums, but I can easily say the creative process is quite alike.

So on that you could argue that filler-ish stuff could exist if it's really repetative - but in terms of 'The Wall' there is no such scenario.

repetitive or would the work be better if it wasn't there?

i'd argue a lot of the wall fits into either one.

Well those people aren't using the term "filler" completely correct then.

considering that is the most common use and the very definition i was using, you're acting quite presumptuous for someone who doesn't even understand the text he's discussing.

[x togepi x]

Can't you ever just admit your even partially wrong? And can you ever not take a discussion to a personal level and just reply 1 for 1?

If someone wants to prove it yeah. Nothing you've said is at all worthwhile.

And i'd think i'd know a bit more about PF then you if i've been reading into them/their music for 4 years, including a 400+ page personal history and a biogrophy of Syd Barrett.

You'd like to think that, but the fact that you don't even understand the role of drugs on the band proves that you don't know shit.

[Brokenhill]

I don't even care how you look at the word filler or how you use it. Going by it's primary meaning, concept albums can't really have filler. But it doesn't even matter, filler can be both good and bad, so it doesn't matter if you consider The Wall a big filler album...then it's incredibly great filler. Simple as that.

As for the album/book thing, just becaue the process of creation is similar, doesn't mean you can equate them...wouldn't you agree that a lot more goes into an album? All the aspects of the music and the lyrics, and then the compiling, arranging, engineering, etc. etc.

[Brokenhill]

If someone wants to prove it yeah. Nothing you've said is at all worthwhile.
According to you, nothing I have ever said or ever will say is worthwhile, because you have a personal hatred built up, so you're wrong on that because it's literally impossible.

You'd like to think that, but the fact that you don't even understand the role of drugs on the band proves that you don't know shit.
See the thing is, I do. Whatever I previously said either came out wrong or was misinterpreted (probably the latter since you're good at doing that).

[x togepi x]

I don't even care how you look at the word filler or how you use it. Going by it's primary meaning, concept albums can't really have filler.
http://donstuff.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/circular-reasoning1.jpg

But it doesn't even matter, filler can be both good and bad, so it doesn't matter if you consider The Wall a big filler album...then it's incredibly great filler. Simple as that.

The word filler inherently has a negative connotation and you know this. Nobody says "man, sonic youth's daydream nation is an amazing album because the filler is SO GOOD".



so...the person who hasn't written a novel or an album is going to tell the person who is currently in the process of both that they cannot equate creative processes that they're currently engaged in? hahaha.

[quote=A Fatal Goodbye]wouldn't you agree that a lot more goes into an album?

hell no. you seem to think writing a novel means sitting down at a computer and writing. there's all sorts of facets to it.

All the aspects of the music and the lyrics, and then the compiling, arranging, engineering, etc. etc.

writing can be just as complex. you arrange. your compile, sometimes you research. you character sketch, you outline, you draft. you revise, you revise again. you edit. just because you stick to one medium doesn't mean that it's somehow less work than writing an album.

[x togepi x]

According to you, nothing I have ever said or ever will say is worthwhile, because you have a personal hatred built up, so you're wrong on that because it's literally impossible.

make arguments that aren't worthless, then you'll have my respect.

i used to "hate" ryan but i see him posting worthwhile things. the difference between you two is he's not a raving moron.

[Brokenhill]

Of course filler has a negative connotation, but since when are you one to look at things like the common man?

I didn't say you couldn't equate the processes, i'm talking about the final product.

For a novel you can have 1 writer and 1 editory and still make an incredible piece of literature, on the other hand it generally takes a team of people to create even a decent album.

[Brokenhill]

make arguments that aren't worthless, then you'll have my respect.

i used to "hate" ryan but i see him posting worthwhile things. the difference between you two is he's not a raving moron.

Well others on this site, and a bunch of other people on other sites don't think that so it can't be entirely true.

[dissident]

Well others on this site, and a bunch of other people on other sites don't think that so it can't be entirely true.

yeah but i bet even stupidtyonparad has some people that get along with him somewhere.

[x togepi x]

Of course filler has a negative connotation, but since when are you one to look at things like the common man?

since i was using in that way and you, oh so wise and brave traveller of words, haven't given me any cogent reason to use the word in a different manner. you just use circular logic and semantic games because you are backed into a corner.

I didn't say you couldn't equate the processes, i'm talking about the final product.

i specifically used the word equate in my question, and you continued to speak as you were.

For a novel you can have 1 writer and 1 editory and still make an incredible piece of literature, on the other hand it generally takes a team of people to create even a decent album.

none of this has any relevance, nor does it take into consideration that many more than one person often work on novels.

[x togepi x]

Well others on this site, and a bunch of other people on other sites don't think that so it can't be entirely true.

so a bunch of people are wrong.

if you actually made an argument worthwhile, i would admit it.

[Brokenhill]

yeah but i bet even stupidtyonparad has some people that get along with him somewhere.

I can't be as bad as him.

[Brokenhill]

Alright, I figured it out - just agree with everything ever say.
Idk what took me so long.

[x togepi x]

this is why you're worthless. instead of engaging in discussions, you choose to act like a 14 year old brat who's mad because their parents won't let them go to that awesome rock concert because its past their curfew.

go ahead, take your ball, and go home. at least you won't be ruining this thread anymore.

[theguy77]

yeah but i bet even stupidtyonparad has some people that get along with him somewhere.

it seriously stuns me that there are. he is so definitively the worst poster on this site its not even funny, i dont understand how some of his opinions are even taken seriously in parts of these forums.

[x togepi x]

it seriously stuns me that there are. he is so definitively the worst poster on this site its not even funny, i dont understand how some of his opinions are even taken seriously in parts of these forums.


AFG and tachypython are the worst posters this site has ever had by far.

they're tied for inanity.

[Brokenhill]

this is why you're worthless. instead of engaging in discussions, you choose to act like a 14 year old brat who's mad because their parents won't let them go to that awesome rock concert because its past their curfew.

go ahead, take your ball, and go home. at least you won't be ruining this thread anymore.
You've got to be kidding, when have I never engaged in any discussion fully. I'm just sick of it dude, you always take things to a personal level or throw random insults why I consistently am respectable and stay on topic. I always stand my ground and defend what I believe. This is just the last straw, the way you argue sometimes is complete BS.

And once again you prove you know nothing about me regardless if it was meant to be directly related to me, as I don't live with my parents, and I never wasn't allowed to go to any concerts and I didn't have a strict curfew.

This thread can't be ruined, it was rubbish to begin. Some of the most retarded claims i've heard are in this thread.

[Brokenhill]

AFG and tachypython are the worst posters this site has ever had by far.

they're tied for inanity.

There's no way i'm even in the top 5, you and like 3 or 4 other peopel are the only one's that have issues with me.
Stupidityonparad*

Tachyon is intentionally like that, and can be easily ignored, SOP on the other hand...

[theguy77]

AFG and tachypython are the worst posters this site has ever had by far.

they're tied for inanity.

stupidtyonparad just recently said in total seriousness that simple plan was a punk band.

this is well after hes been berated several times for proclaiming that NOFX are "as punk as it gets".

not to mention i hadn't even been in that thread for weeks, and havent said anything to him in longer (hes blocked), and i see from a quoted message hes taking shots at me and condescending ME because its apparently wrong of me to know theres a difference between a band like fugazi and a band like sum 41.

[dissident]

i'm pretty sure if he said fat mike was as "punk as it gets" in front of someone like pete doherty he would be stabbed.

[x togepi x]

You've got to be kidding, when have I never engaged in any discussion fully.

Right now. I challenged your position and after all this all you have to say for yourself is a whiny "well i guess i should just always agree with what you have to say"."

I'm just sick of it dude, you always take things to a personal level or throw random insults why I consistently am respectable and stay on topic.

I will never care about how you feel at the point where you think women are your slaves and gays are morally flawed.

I always stand my ground and defend what I believe. This is just the last straw, the way you argue sometimes is complete BS.

If you "defended" what you believe, we wouldn't have a problem. You just make blind assertions, they get challenged, then you throw a fit. That's all I've been doing. I'm peppering it with insults because you totally derailed this thread to bring attention to yourself and backed out of the very first quote challenging your opinion by making it all about the wall.

And once again you prove you know nothing about me regardless if it was meant to be directly related to me, as I don't live with my parents, and I never wasn't allowed to go to any concerts and I didn't have a strict curfew.

apparently you don't know what an analogy is. i said you were acting like a 14 year old kid who's parents won't let them go to shows, not that you were literally a 14 year old kid. are you sure you read all of that 400 page pink floyd book or did you get confused and think it was actually happening to you in real time?

This thread can't be ruined, it was rubbish to begin. Some of the most retarded claims i've heard are in this thread.

I stated the opinion that the Flaming lips album (which i've doubt you've even heard) was better. Some people agreed. Some didn't. You threw a hissy fit like a little kid (once again, i know you're not a little kid. please remember what the word like means)

Stupidityonparad*

Tachyon is intentionally like that, and can be easily ignored, SOP on the other hand...

What you're doing right now is exactly what good ol' tachypython does.

[x togepi x]

stupidtyonparad just recently said in total seriousness that simple plan was a punk band.

this is well after hes been berated several times for proclaiming that NOFX are "as punk as it gets".

not to mention i hadn't even been in that thread for weeks, and havent said anything to him in longer (hes blocked), and i see from a quoted message hes taking shots at me and condescending ME because its apparently wrong of me to know theres a difference between a band like fugazi and a band like sum 41.

dude, i never argued that he knows what he's talking about

but at least he doesn't hate women and gay people.

[mrnegativezero]

Has the original subject already been dropped? Way late to the party, but I didn't enjoy this album at all. Probably cause I'm not into the Flaming Lips and was raised on Pink Floyd. But eh, I guess it could've been worse.

[Brokenhill]

Once again, classic Togepi. Women aren't slaves, i've never said that, and "morally flawed" isn't how I put it.

I haven't thrown any fits, i've been replying just like you have, except you like to derail or branch out by throwing in all these "well one could say this..." when it's not directly what we're talking about.

If you actually read what i've posted in here instead of just skimming through it like always you would have realized that like the second thing I said was how I was going to listen to TFL version and then come back and give my 2 cents, but you just "challenged" me by personal insult, like always.

Of course I know what an analogy is I just read past that "like" part since i'm tired and tryign to get off here so I wasn't paying attention therefore I led to the conclusion of direct correlation. Simple accident.

[x togepi x]

Once again, classic Togepi. Women aren't slaves, i've never said that, and "morally flawed" isn't how I put it.

I'm using the logical extension of your claims, but since you don't understand how these things work, I can see how you'd get pissed off. I mean, you think simple analogies are meant to be taken literally.

I haven't thrown any fits, i've been replying just like you have, except you like to derail or branch out by throwing in all these "well one could say this..." when it's not directly what we're talking about.

You threw a fit when you said that you should just agree all the time and threw the pity party about how oh so tired of this you were.

but no, i don't "derail", i use counterexamples to show how flawed your logic is. it's like...you think of something...then you come up with an idea and then you're done. you don't at all wonder if there are alternate perspectives or counterclaims that could be made that you've never thought of. but, golly AFG, i better not bring that up or you'll complain that the thread is derailed.

which is ironic because you're the person who derailed it from a discussion about a really good cover album to idiotic claims about pink floyd.

If you actually read what i've posted in here instead of just skimming through it like always you would have realized that like the second thing I said was how I was going to listen to TFL version and then come back and give my 2 cents, but you just "challenged" me by personal insult, like always.

THIS PROVES MY FUCKING POINT DUMBASS.

You came into the thread, having not listened to it, and started arguing. Point out where I said you were never going to listen to it. All I said is you haven't, because at the point you started posting here you hadn't.

Of course I know what an analogy is I just read past that "like" part since i'm tired and tryign to get off here so I wasn't paying attention therefore I led to the conclusion of direct correlation. Simple accident.

kind of like your conception?

OH NO IS THAT ANALOGY OR DO I REALLY THINK YOU'RE A BASTARD?

[summer skin]

OP and this:

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HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHA HAHAHA HAHAHA
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHA HAHAHA HAHAHA
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHA HAHAHA HAHAHA
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHA HAHAHA HAHAHA
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHA HAHAHA HAHAHA
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHA HAHAHA HAHAHA
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHA HAHAHA HAHAHA
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHA HAHAHA HAHAHA
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHA HAHAHA HAHAHA
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHA HAHAHA HAHAHA
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHA HAHAHA HAHAHA
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHA HAHAHA HAHAHA
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHA HAHAHA HAHAHA
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHA HAHAHA HAHAHA.
what?

[cshadows2887]

Have you written an album and a novel?

I've written an album, i'm working on a novel. They're different in as much as they are different mediums, but I can easily say the creative process is quite alike.


This is the one part in an otherwise really well-reasoned arguement that bothers me. To assume that what holds true for your creative process holds true for anyone else's is problematic at best. Art is too personal and individual for that.

[Nevuk]

Good times, Good times.

[Wisdom Tooth]

And i'd think i'd know a bit more about PF then you if i've been reading into them/their music for 4 years, including a 400+ page personal history and a biogrophy of Syd Barrett.

Jesus christ. That probably doesn't leave much time to do anything else. Masturbation and Syd Barrett must be your two favorite things in the world.

[kearn1tm]

I listened to this. I liked it, actually. Admittedly, I'm a casual Flaming Lips fan, so that helped. Out of interest, I may track down Pink Floyd's for comparison reasons.

I feel compelled to respond to some statements made in this thread though:

1.) Sealab is rad as hell.
2.) Mercury Rev should do this too. They're the better Flaming Lips
3.) I've seen the Lips live, and it's a good show, but not the best I've ever seen.
4.) Seanbaby is boss.
5.) I wrote a novel last year. It was distributed by a small Michigan publisher. It sold 59 copies. I suspect 59 copies of which were purchased by two of my friends.
6.) Typing "hahahahahahahahahhahahahaha" for the entirety of a post that extends down the page is obnoxious and I hope that, whoever you are poster, you're currently on fire.

[xJesusFreakx]

it seriously stuns me that there are. he is so definitively the worst poster on this site its not even funny, i dont understand how some of his opinions are even taken seriously in parts of these forums.

Eh, I think you're blowing your personal issues with him out of proportion. He is pretty ridiculous, was the first person I ever put on ignore on this site, etc., but I kind of like him. If I were you, I probably wouldn't like him, but making the jump to "worst poster on this site" is a bit much, at least in my opinion.

[new_arbiter]

what?

If you sound it out, it's more like a bad cough than a laugh.

[theguy77]

Eh, I think you're blowing your personal issues with him out of proportion. He is pretty ridiculous, was the first person I ever put on ignore on this site, etc., but I kind of like him. If I were you, I probably wouldn't like him, but making the jump to "worst poster on this site" is a bit much, at least in my opinion.

ive literally never come across someone on this site who has such a torrid combination of obstinance, poor reasoning, and just plain being an asshole all the time. he's stubborn and closed minded, says the dumbest and most offensive things about art constantly, and has the nerve to condescend YOU even when you politely introduce an alternate perspective. he also never has anything better to do than to just call me out in the most petty and childish ways just because people like me on this site and because i made a record im proud of. hes been doing that with me as his primary target constantly for the past 2 years and he STILL does it even now that ive blocked him and havent said a word to him (aside from actually COMPLIMENTING him on his music) in the past several weeks. its impossible to get through to him, no matter how badly he gets proven wrong time and time again he always comes back to the same idiotic views and no matter how nice ive ever been to him he always comes back to the same idiotic insults. its simply ridiculous how closed-minded and persistent he is no matter how many times ive tried to change my attitude about him, i simply cant respect him.

[x togepi x]

This is the one part in an otherwise really well-reasoned arguement that bothers me. To assume that what holds true for your creative process holds true for anyone else's is problematic at best. Art is too personal and individual for that.

I'm not assuming that at all. It was an argument by counter-example. AFG was saying you absolutely can't compare an album and a book because they require completely different creative processes. I pointed out a case where that isn't true to show that there are enough similarities to make the analogy work. If there weren't any similarities, then the creative process would have to be different in every case, which my example shows it's clearly not even if it is different in some cases. The reason he tries to point this out is because he has no response to this claim at all. Whether or not all creative processes are the same has no bearing on my argument.

He just wants to spout baseless bullshit about his sacred cow Pink Floyd and is so obsessed with The Wall being perfect that he won't accept any logic that could be used to show that it isn't. He doesn't want to actually engage what I was saying, which is why he threw a fit.

[x togepi x]

ive literally never come across someone on this site who has such a torrid combination of obstinance, poor reasoning, and just plain being an asshole all the time. he's stubborn and closed minded, says the dumbest and most offensive things about art constantly, and has the nerve to condescend YOU even when you politely introduce an alternate perspective. he also never has anything better to do than to just call me out in the most petty and childish ways just because people like me on this site and because i made a record im proud of. hes been doing that with me as his primary target constantly for the past 2 years and he STILL does it even now that ive blocked him and havent said a word to him (aside from actually COMPLIMENTING him on his music) in the past several weeks. its impossible to get through to him, no matter how badly he gets proven wrong time and time again he always comes back to the same idiotic views and no matter how nice ive ever been to him he always comes back to the same idiotic insults. its simply ridiculous how closed-minded and persistent he is no matter how many times ive tried to change my attitude about him, i simply cant respect him.

dude we can be talking about the exact same poster. AFG does most of this shit. So does tachypython (so glad he's banned). i mean shit, the first time i talked to tachpython, he whined that i said brand new was better than pink floyd when he specifically asked if anyone actually thought that.

[Brokenhill]

what?

Exactly.

[Brokenhill]

I'm not assuming that at all. It was an argument by counter-example. AFG was saying you absolutely can't compare an album and a book because they require completely different creative processes. I pointed out a case where that isn't true to show that there are enough similarities to make the analogy work. If there weren't any similarities, then the creative process would have to be different in every case, which my example shows it's clearly not even if it is different in some cases. The reason he tries to point this out is because he has no response to this claim at all. Whether or not all creative processes are the same has no bearing on my argument.

He just wants to spout baseless bullshit about his sacred cow Pink Floyd and is so obsessed with The Wall being perfect that he won't accept any logic that could be used to show that it isn't. He doesn't want to actually engage what I was saying, which is why he threw a fit.

I wasn't saying anything even close to "you absolutely can't compare an album to a book because they require complete different creative processes". This is another case of your misinterpreting my point and so then with your incomplete undersatnding of my view you attack so things get all over the place.
Of course writing music or writing a book can have extremely similar creative processes, but I was never talking about creative processes - you were. I was simply saying how generally more goes into an album (more on the quantity side) but not in the sense of length, but that there's more layers and aspects that are compiled.

I know The Wall isn't perfect. It's near-perfect for me personally, but I know it's not perfect. You're sayign i'm making baseless claims, yet you have yet to give a specific example for why 'The Wall' is a "filler bonanza".

My claim that filler can't really be applied to concept/story albums was based around this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filler_(media)#Music_Albums

[Brokenhill]

Also, if you go back you'll notice that you were the one who attacked me and took it instantly to a personal level. I said I was going to listen to the album before commenting on why Pink Floyd's is better, but you still went ahead with whatever it was you felt you had to say.
You started making claims that Pink Floyd "suck" and isn't "worthwhile music", which i've heard from you and a few other people, but have yet to hear any specefic reasons why.

[GhostFight]

this thread fucking sucks

[dissident]

it's about as good as the bands it's about.

[Brokenhill]

it's about as good as the bands it's about.

I agree.

[dissident]

you finally agree that pink floyd is awful?

[Brokenhill]

This thread is about The Flaming Lips.

I knew what you were getting at, but I still quoted you for what your post actually says.

[dissident]

that this thread sucks as much as pink floyd and the lips. which you agreed with.

[cshadows2887]

I'm not assuming that at all. It was an argument by counter-example. AFG was saying you absolutely can't compare an album and a book because they require completely different creative processes. I pointed out a case where that isn't true to show that there are enough similarities to make the analogy work. If there weren't any similarities, then the creative process would have to be different in every case, which my example shows it's clearly not even if it is different in some cases. The reason he tries to point this out is because he has no response to this claim at all. Whether or not all creative processes are the same has no bearing on my argument.

He just wants to spout baseless bullshit about his sacred cow Pink Floyd and is so obsessed with The Wall being perfect that he won't accept any logic that could be used to show that it isn't. He doesn't want to actually engage what I was saying, which is why he threw a fit.

Ok. After you clarified, I see where you were going with it. Any exception disproves a blanket claim like his. Well-played.

[x togepi x]

I wasn't saying anything even close to "you absolutely can't compare an album to a book because they require complete different creative processes". This is another case of your misinterpreting my point and so then with your incomplete undersatnding of my view you attack so things get all over the place.

This is fun because I can quote you saying just that:

Yea but first of all, you can't equate books to albums

Weird. It's like you don't even understand the things you write, let alone other people's views.

Of course writing music or writing a book can have extremely similar creative processes, but I was never talking about creative processes - you were. I was simply saying how generally more goes into an album (more on the quantity side) but not in the sense of length, but that there's more layers and aspects that are compiled.

here's a case where you completely ignore the other person's response to make the same baseless claim.

I would like you to substantiate your position that "more goes into an album, quantity-wise". i'm pretty sure just one of the lord of the rings books trumps essentially any rock-based album ever.

I know The Wall isn't perfect. It's near-perfect for me personally, but I know it's not perfect. You're sayign i'm making baseless claims, yet you have yet to give a specific example for why 'The Wall' is a "filler bonanza".

because it's a subjective taste claim! it doesn't matter if you like it or if i hate it. it matters when you're trying to justify your like of the album by saying things that aren't true. it would be like if you said you liked the wall because of kurt cobain's singing on it.

My claim that filler can't really be applied to concept/story albums was based around this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filler_(media)#Music_Albums (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filler_%28media%29#Music_Albums)

alright dude, go ahead and quote a wiki article talking about how music was written IN THE FUCKING 60S and act like that's at all relevant to the discussion.

Also, if you go back you'll notice that you were the one who attacked me and took it instantly to a personal level.

Could you please point out where I attacked you in this thread before you needlessly typed HAHAHAHAHAHA for like a page and addressed it to me and ryan?

oh wait. Of course i'm going to "attack you" for commenting on an album you've never fucking heard. I didn't make this thread for you. I made it because I was sure some people here would like to hear this CD and wouldn't even know it exists.

I said I was going to listen to the album before commenting on why Pink Floyd's is better, but you still went ahead with whatever it was you felt you had to say.

That isn't what you said at all. Here's your exact quote:

I don't even need to listen to this to explain why the original is better, but i'll be hearing it sometime this week and then probably coming back here and dishing it out.

So no, jackass, you were in fact commenting on the album before you ever listened to it, which is exactly what I accused you of.

You started making claims that Pink Floyd "suck" and isn't "worthwhile music", which i've heard from you and a few other people, but have yet to hear any specefic reasons why.

I've told you why plenty of times, but who cares? This thread was about the flaming lips's cover of this cd. You ruined it by whining that I made fun of you for posting stupid things. Oh fucking well.

[oddwithoutend]

Album is thoroughly enjoyable.

[s.t.e.v.e.n.]

Ahh. Haven't read a good one of these in a while.

[Brokenhill]

This is fun because I can quote you saying just that:

Weird. It's like you don't even understand the things you write, let alone other people's views.

here's a case where you completely ignore the other person's response to make the same baseless claim.

I would like you to substantiate your position that "more goes into an album, quantity-wise". i'm pretty sure just one of the lord of the rings books trumps essentially any rock-based album ever.

because it's a subjective taste claim! it doesn't matter if you like it or if i hate it. it matters when you're trying to justify your like of the album by saying things that aren't true. it would be like if you said you liked the wall because of kurt cobain's singing on it.

alright dude, go ahead and quote a wiki article talking about how music was written IN THE FUCKING 60S and act like that's at all relevant to the discussion.

Could you please point out where I attacked you in this thread before you needlessly typed HAHAHAHAHAHA for like a page and addressed it to me and ryan?

oh wait. Of course i'm going to "attack you" for commenting on an album you've never fucking heard. I didn't make this thread for you. I made it because I was sure some people here would like to hear this CD and wouldn't even know it exists.

That isn't what you said at all. Here's your exact quote:

So no, jackass, you were in fact commenting on the album before you ever listened to it, which is exactly what I accused you of.

I've told you why plenty of times, but who cares? This thread was about the flaming lips's cover of this cd. You ruined it by whining that I made fun of you for posting stupid things. Oh fucking well.

I used the word "equate" for a reason. Equal means EXACTLY THE SAME/ZERO DIFFERENCE. Books and albums aren't perfectly parallel.
Why I see it that more goes into the album is because (and this is simplified) lyrics are written, melodies are created to accompany the lyrics, music is written for each instrument, each instrument has various setting tampered with for input and output, everything must be recorded, the completed parts of the song and the album overall have to be engineered...compiling, blending, adjusting volume levels of all the channels, adding and adjusting any other optional effects like echo, and all the other adjustments and fine-tuning processes that are generally used.

How is bringing up where the term was basically coined irrelevent?

No, I wasn't commenting on the album, notice how I said I was going to come back and write my thoughts after hearing it.

[oddwithoutend]

The pinnacle of this thread was togepi saying "golly AFG".

[Brokenhill]

You like the original better because you're a mindless fanboy.

Nobody will ever care what you think about anything.

This is where the attack came, nowhere in this post does it express "Prove why it's better than the cover", so you never initially challenged me on that.

[GhostFight]

no this thread just fucking sucks (period). we should kill it.

[oddwithoutend]

no this thread just fucking sucks (period). we should kill it.
Did you listen to the album?

[GhostFight]

Did you listen to the album?
yes, and offered my opinion..

AND NO ONE FUCKING DISAGREED.

[Brokenhill]

It should be deleted and the actual discussion of the album be sparked in the official TFL thread.

[oddwithoutend]

its definitely a sick take on the album, im about half way through. im not too huge on the lip's grimey garage-ey sound lately though, i probably would have liked it much more if it were recorded around the soft bulliten / zaireeka era.
I like its Embryonic leanings because I think it does well to seperate it more from the original version. The very last line on the album kind of irks me, however.

There is no dark side of the moon, really
As a matter of fact, it's all dark

Buzzkiller if you ask me.

[GhostFight]

haha thanks man but i would have preferred if you just looked at my profile and said the bands i have listed in it suck.

TRUTH about the end of the album though, pretty stupid and pointless change.

[Brokenhill]

Pretty stupid and pointless change?

PF had people (including celebrities like Paul McCartney and his wife) come in and they asked them different questions...that last clip of "there is no dark side of the moon really, as a matter of fact it's all dark" is just a response they got, not something they wrote.

The same goes for the clips placed in "The Great Gig in the Sky".

[wesgemm08]

I can't get over how awful the cover of 'money' is.

[oddwithoutend]

just a response they got, not something they wrote.
Annoying ending, regardless.
I can't get over how awful the cover of 'money' is.
ha It flows nicely with the record, but if you were expecting a quality stand-alone track, I could see you being disappointed.

[GhostFight]

Pretty stupid and pointless change?

PF had people (including celebrities like Paul McCartney and his wife) come in and they asked them different questions...that last clip of "there is no dark side of the moon really, as a matter of fact it's all dark" is just a response they got, not something they wrote.

The same goes for the clips placed in "The Great Gig in the Sky".
yes, stupid and pointless. i know what pink floyd did during the recording of the album i've read the wikipedia page before.

have you ever heard the dub side of the moon version? i like that a lot more than the lips remake even though the lips are one of my favorite bands, i think its because the dub side version is pretty much note for note to the original they just changed up the style to make it reggae.

[Brokenhill]

Annoying ending, regardless.

ha It flows nicely with the record, but if you were expecting a quality stand-alone track, I could see you being disappointed.

I don't see how it's annoying, but alright.

[oddwithoutend]

I don't see how it's annoying, but alright.
That's fine. I don't see how it's not annoying.

[Brokenhill]

yes, stupid and pointless. i know what pink floyd did during the recording of the album i've read the wikipedia page before.

have you ever heard the dub side of the moon version? i like that a lot more than the lips remake even though the lips are one of my favorite bands, i think its because the dub side version is pretty much note for note to the original they just changed up the style to make it reggae.

It doesn't go against the rest of the album or anything...it's just a clever remark.

No I have not, 99% of the time I hate covers. You're not talking about that "Hip-hop tribute" are you? I always see that at Walmart or Best Buy, but I've never checked it out.

[oddwithoutend]

it's just a clever remark.
What's clever about it?

[Brokenhill]

What's clever about it?

Let me rephrase that, I think it's interesting that that was his initial reaction/comment to the question asked.

[GhostFight]

It doesn't go against the rest of the album or anything...it's just a clever remark.

No I have not, 99% of the time I hate covers. You're not talking about that "Hip-hop tribute" are you? I always see that at Walmart or Best Buy, but I've never checked it out.
no, like i said in the post you quoted, its a reggae tribute.

[Brokenhill]

no, like i said in the post you quoted, its a reggae tribute.

Oh yea, haha.

[Broclee]

Downloaded and ready to listen tomorrow.

I'm not big on Pink Floyd, but I do enjoy the Lips, so I'm interested to hear it.

[IntoTheSun]

It's funny how so many people on iTunes are absolutely outraged by it: PINK FLOYD IIS TEH GREATEST!!!1! HOW DARE THEY! *one star*

[x togepi x]

I used the word "equate" for a reason. Equal means EXACTLY THE SAME/ZERO DIFFERENCE. Books and albums aren't perfectly parallel.

What reason was that? I mean...it confuses me that you chose to use a word defined as such when i never actually said that concept albums and novels were EXACTLY THE SAME/ZERO DIFFERENCE. I merely said they had some similarities. Now either you're trying to misrepresent my view (which is odd since you continually accuse me of doing that) or you're just playing semantic games because that's the only leg you have to stand on.

So yeah, which is it dude? I pointed out how there are enough similarities. Are you going to respond to that claim or are you going to just try and get out of it by using language?

Why I see it that more goes into the album is because (and this is simplified) lyrics are written, melodies are created to accompany the lyrics, music is written for each instrument, each instrument has various setting tampered with for input and output, everything must be recorded, the completed parts of the song and the album overall have to be engineered...compiling, blending, adjusting volume levels of all the channels, adding and adjusting any other optional effects like echo, and all the other adjustments and fine-tuning processes that are generally used.

This is an incredibly shallow view of writing records and the written word. If you want to focus on the more apparent steps in writing an album and ignore the more hidden steps of writing something of substiantial length, than that's your problem. Cling to your ignorance dude.

What's important here is that my argument doesn't really talk about how things are written but talks about the finished product. If you contend that concept albums can't have filler because of the concept, then I can obviously point out you're wrong by pointing to books or even poetry which, have concepts and can also have filler.

Maybe I should have used poetry since it closely resembles lyrics (though there are obvious differences). A mark of a poor poet is filler in their poems.

How is bringing up where the term was basically coined irrelevent?

Two key reasons.

First, while it may have been true in the 60s when people were recording analog and pressing to vinyl that artists would need to write filler songs to fill up a side so that they weren't wasting vinyl because that shit is expensive, this process is largely irrelevant to today's landscape where most of the recorded to CD and artists can record 5 songs and call it a release a la Lady Gaga's The Fame Monster and not have to worry about wasting space since cds cost less than 50 cents to make. This means that artists who write filler songs nowadays aren't doing it for the same reasons people did it in the 60s, thus that conception of filler is outdated.

Second, it is apparent that words evolve. The word filler has evolved away from the original concept. Most commonly, the concept of filler means songs that are of lesser quality/completely mediocre than the hits/singles/great songs of an album. I would contend that most artists aren't writing filler to fill up a cd like you think they do, but rather, they lack the foresight to know that every song they write isn't necessarily good. If you're writing an album because you want to/need to, it can be quite hard to edit your work so that some weaker songs get left out. This is why, I think, that many bsides are amazing yet some songs off that album are not.

No, I wasn't commenting on the album, notice how I said I was going to come back and write my thoughts after hearing it.

You said that you didn't need to say why Pink Floyd's was better. That is a comment on the album. You're just saying no because I said yes. I think you need to be put in time out. GO TO YOUR ROOM.

This is where the attack came, nowhere in this post does it express "Prove why it's better than the cover", so you never initially challenged me on that.

Calling you an idiotic fanboy is the challenge. If you wanted to deny the fanboy charge, you could explain why the album was better. That's the difference between a fanboy and other people. The fan of the album might make a reasoned argument for why Pink Floyd's is better, it's probably quite easy if you like terrible music like Dark Side of The Moon, but you, the fan boy, predicated your position solely on the fact that pink floyd wrote Dark Side.

You can't argue that you didn't because you hadn't heard the album before you posted.

It should be deleted and the actual discussion of the album be sparked in the official TFL thread.

No, because this thread is supposed to be about a flaming lips album. It's going to be a big part of their NYE show, which is their biggest show of the year. It wouldn't make sense to talk about it in the idiotic Pink Floyd thread because 1) i made the thread to tell people this album leaked and I doubt people check the Pink Floyd thread for Flaming Lips leaks and 2) you don't talk about covers of songs in the original artist's thread usually

You could just go away and let people talk about the awesome cd. Nobody would miss you.

[x togepi x]

It's funny how so many people on iTunes are absolutely outraged by it: PINK FLOYD IIS TEH GREATEST!!!1! HOW DARE THEY! *one star*

i love it when things like that happen in any situation. i heard a lot of this sentiment when i was talking about this cd at my parent's house. it's funny. obviously the band had fun with it and it wasn't a totally serious reverent take. i guess music can be fun when you're a boring classic rocker.

[Broclee]

I'm gonna have to go with the Lip's, having listened to both side by side. Regardless of any sort of objective merits of either, I just enjoyed the Flaming Lip's version more.

[Brokenhill]

My comments are in the official thread.

[Cuddleworthy]

freak folking bore

[cshadows2887]

freak folking bore

Out of curiosity was it just the two threads you popped into to say the exact same post?

[Summersitcom]

well the flaiming lips ARE a better band than pink floyd...

oh god Ryan, please shut the fuck up.

[x togepi x]

My comments are in the official thread.

Nobody cares that you posted in the other thread because you can't respond to mine.

[Cuddleworthy]

Out of curiosity was it just the two threads you popped into to say the exact same post?

like five

[cshadows2887]

like five

You were in the mood for a good arguement?

[thehereaway]

I've only heard the cover of Money and it was absolute garbage, they completely butchered the original.

[Cuddleworthy]

You were in the mood for a good arguement?

no. there's only one e in argument, though

[Judge'sDaughter]

this album rules. disagree with me and i know you're a boring old man/lame pot head.

it has henry rollins on it.

I'm in shock. I really can't believe that you posted a shit thread like this.

[Cuddleworthy]

lol

[Brokenhill]

Nobody cares that you posted in the other thread because you can't respond to mine.

You want me to copy it in here?

[x togepi x]

You want me to copy it in here?

is it going to be the last thing you ever post on the internet? If not, don't waste your time. I don't need to read you fanboying out.

[Brokenhill]

Haha, I actually gave it more credit than I thought I would, but ok Jack.

[x togepi x]

I don't care.

[Brokenhill]

I realized this.

[cshadows2887]

no. there's only one e in argument, though

Good catch. Should read over my posts before I click submit.

[BBScience]

Its one thing if Pink Floyd isn't your cup of tea, but this is uninspired garbage.

[summer skin]

I miss when AFG had that black scene chick fake account.
Those were the music forum glory days.

[Brokenhill]

I miss when AFG had that black scene chick fake account.
Those were the music forum glory days.

Thank Jason for that.

[kwsqd]

Listened to some of this and definitely liked it. I wouldn't say it's immediately better than pink floyd's version, but it's just as good.

[Brokenhill]

Lol.

[kwsqd]

lol?


edit: thanks for the brilliant contribution.

[Brokenhill]

"It's just as good" is just as bad as if someone said it was better.

[xJesusFreakx]

I've been lurking this thread a bit, even though I'm not much for either Pink Floyd or the Flaming Lips, and I don't recall anyone yet explaining why exactly they prefer the one version to the other.

[kwsqd]

"It's just as good" is just as bad as if someone said it was better.
I think that it's on par with pink floyd's version... I'm not sure why that warrants you to say "lol" but alrighty.

[Brokenhill]

I've been lurking this thread a bit, even though I'm not much for either Pink Floyd or the Flaming Lips, and I don't recall anyone yet explaining why exactly they prefer the one version to the other.

I posted my song by song synopsis in the official TFL thread.

I think that it's on par with pink floyd's version... I'm not sure why that warrants you to say "lol" but alrighty.

I'm curious as to why you think so.

From "Speak to Me" to "Money", their cover is almost completely laughable/just plain bad. It finally turns around "Us and Them" which is their best cover on the whole album and finishes out the album decently. For it to be on par, it would have to exceed their attempts on "Us and Them" for ever single song. And even then it wouldn't be "on par" with the original, it would just be a great/unique cover.

[kwsqd]

I posted my song by song synopsis in the official TFL thread.



I'm curious as to why you think so.

From "Speak to Me" to "Money", their cover is almost completely laughable/just plain bad. It finally turns around "Us and Them" which is their best cover on the whole album and finishes out the album decently. For it to be on par, it would have to exceed their attempts on "Us and Them" for ever single song. And even then it wouldn't be "on par" with the original, it would just be a great/unique cover.

I'm not that big of a pink floyd fan to begin with, so it is fairly easy for me to say. In this case, I like some covers better than the originals and some originals better than the covers. It's not that big of a deal.. :shrug:

[xJesusFreakx]

I posted my song by song synopsis in the official TFL thread.

What's wrong with this thread?

[Brokenhill]

What's wrong with this thread?I guess nothing, besides some of the absurd and ignorant claims.
___________________________________ ________________________________
Sure, it's an interesting take on 'Dark Side', but interesting isn't always good.
This is on a first-time listen basis, with a lot of the comments made in real-time.. Yes, i'm biased (we all are), but the fact that i'm even giving it a chance shows that i'm taking it seriously. My intent is not to tear it down completely.

Speak to Me/Breathe:
Opening heart beat sounds pretty unofficial/not even remotely believable. It seems as if the band didn't make an attempt to make the quotes rest in the background. They didn't even attempt that first chord. Overall, it was too upbeat. The transition into "On the Run" is a bit too abrupt.

On the Run:
Very bleh. Not enough sense of the Doppler Effect, the key features of the original are very sparse in this version. I see how they're trying to push the guitar here, but they don't make any parallels to the original with it, which is disappointing.

Time/Breathe (Reprise):
There aren't any clocks. Yea, another instance of taking a new approach, but something related more to the sound of ticking should have been implemented.

The Great Gig in the Sky:
Finally, something peaceful and soothing with good melodies, with decent melodies and blending/flow. Nevermind, once the vocals jumped in, the music also went haywire. The vocals actually aren't that far off, but the first section with he heavy distortion/instrumentation sounds really bad. However, once the peace broke in again...it sounded much much better.

Money:
Musically, and the timing are fine, but the vocals are horrendous with that vocoder or whatever they're using. Why would the use of a computer generated sounding voice have any emphasis on the meaning of this song? DG's vocals in the original portray that sense of greed and whatnot. They couldn't find a chick to do the "He was cruisin' for a bruisin'" ? quote, really?

Us and Them:
Good start, one of the closer parallels to the original. Decent progression. Vocals were also executed well...i'm surprised. Missing bass parts, though...and the mini-climaxes for the choruses (though understandable as it sounds intentional...and I see/hear why they did it. Sounds nice this way). Pacing is kept all the way through, which is good...the guitar parts are executed well.
This was the song I was paying atention to the most (as it's my favorite song of all time), but like I said, they did a good job on it, so I applaud them for that.

Any Colour You Like:
Transition into it isn't fantastic, but it's not bad because it's supposed to kinda of scream in your face. I can see their focus is more on the guitar and the tweaks, since they left out most of the keyboard parts, which is fine...they did a decent job.

Brain Damage:
Pretty good transition into it, probably the best on the album. Vocals are fitting...not annoying. For the second chorus portion, drums came in late and aren't very fitting. Decent overall, but horrible climax to "Eclipse" which is one the best parts of the original album and IMO is an essential part. They didn't use any percussion before the song change.

Eclipse:
It was alright, don't really have any specific issues with it, I just thought they could have drawn out the end a bit more, and had that final quote be a little softer/a little more towards the end until a complete fade out.

Overall:
Yes, I know it's not supposed to be note for note, but it doesn't seem that they were consistent with their own approach, and they weren't consistent with backing the meanings throughout the album. Poor transitioning throughout, for an album like this...transitions are extremely important. I felt lost many times in the beginning. The latter portion ("Us and Them" to the end) is much better, I can sense the atmosphere much more on the latter portion. I think they could have done a better job (if the first half was more like the second)...the first half was worse then I though it'd be, but after hearing it the latter is much better then I thought it'd be. Overall it wasn't too bad I suppose, but it doesn't capture the emotion and expression that the original does, and it's composition is poor considering all the technology they have to work with as opposed what PF did in '73.

Also, I know some people think the original is boring, but honestly...honestly, compared to the original, this one is more boring because it lacks the energy that the original has in certain places.

[Broclee]

I've been lurking this thread a bit, even though I'm not much for either Pink Floyd or the Flaming Lips, and I don't recall anyone yet explaining why exactly they prefer the one version to the other.
Sometimes you just can't explain personal preference.

Though I'm sure several people will respond to this and try, either to great success or great failure.

[xJesusFreakx]

Sometimes you just can't explain personal preference.

Though I'm sure several people will respond to this and try, either to great success or great failure.

This is a fair point, but with some of the blanket statements people have made, I'd just kind of hope they could at least attempt to explain what they prefer in the one over the other.

[Broclee]

This is a fair point, but with some of the blanket statements people have made, I'd just kind of hope they could at least attempt to explain what they prefer in the one over the other.
Yeah, that makes sense. I have no qualms admitting that for me it's just personal preference.

[x togepi x]

lol at the guy, who decided he liked the pink floyd album better before he heard this one, talking about "ignorant claims".

i read a ten thousand page book about the flaming lips. i think i would know that i'm right.

[kwsqd]

lol at the guy, who decided he liked the pink floyd album better before he heard this one, talking about "ignorant claims".

i read a ten thousand page book about the flaming lips. i think i would know that i'm right.
who authored it?!

[Brokenhill]

lol at the guy, who decided he liked the pink floyd album better before he heard this one, talking about "ignorant claims".

i read a ten thousand page book about the flaming lips. i think i would know that i'm right.

That's because I prefer original versions of anything over covers 99.9% of the time, and even if I did prefer a cover, I probably wouldn't say that it's better than the original. I like listening to/watching things how they were originally meant to be listened to.
And since we're talking about Pink Floyd, I could easily come to the conclusion that the original would be better.

[x togepi x]

That's because I prefer original versions of anything over covers 99.9% of the time, and even if I did prefer a cover, I probably wouldn't say that it's better than the original. I like listening to/watching things how they were originally meant to be listened to.
And since we're talking about Pink Floyd, I could easily come to the conclusion that the original would be better.

so many logical fallacies here.

I don't care dude. That's what you don't get. I was just pointing out that you're posting illogical prejudiced statements about this album.

[dissident]

"It's just as good" is just as bad as if someone said it was better.

you're such a loser.

[Nevuk]

I'm in shock. I really can't believe that you posted a shit thread like this.
Um... this kind of thread is actually pretty typical for togepi. I find them amusing and they aren't meant to be taken totally seriously, but any excuse to watch him and afg fight it out is worth it regardless of what the rest of the thread consists of. I'm still amazed by the lack of discussion of afatalgoodbye's view on women and slaves, though. They're just sad.

[Brokenhill]

Um... this kind of thread is actually pretty typical for togepi. I find them amusing and they aren't meant to be taken totally seriously, but any excuse to watch him and afg fight it out is worth it regardless of what the rest of the thread consists of. I'm still amazed by the lack of discussion of afatalgoodbye's view on women and slaves, though. They're just sad.

I've stated my defense on women, you just missed it. No one has initiated the slave topic on me though.

[Nevuk]

I've stated my defense on women, you just missed it. No one has initiated the slave topic on me though.
That qualified as a defense? I thought you were joking.

[Brokenhill]

That qualified as a defense? I thought you were joking.

Where? In this thread? I meant in the theology thread.