Ouch

[ghostyouare]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EQFC8AlCVjE&mode=related&search=

Sorry, I know youtube is like th most credible source for information I mean afterall they brought us loose change and all but I just couldn't find anything with a worse rep than yt. Anyways, I thought this video was interesting.

Note: I'm not saying Al Qaeda is fake or supporting those claims in the title. I just wanted to shine some light on some one recent arrests of "terrorist"

[justinevans]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EQFC8AlCVjE&mode=related&search=

Sorry, I know youtube is like th most credible source for information I mean afterall they brought us loose change and all but I just couldn't find anything with a worse rep than yt. Anyways, I thought this video was interesting.

ha ha ha ha.

Let me guess the holocaust was a hoax too.

Did you forget what just happened recently?

KILL YOURSELF.

[cal1082]

I find it ridiculous and not remotely interesting

[FallingOut]

I find it ridiculous and not remotely interesting

Of course you dont, it doesnt fit what you want to believe. Any evidence, even if it makes perfect sense, against what you are fed by the government must be wrong.

[mps]

ha ha ha ha.

Let me guess the holocaust was a hoax too.

Did you forget what just happened recently?

KILL YOURSELF.

What the hell are you talking about? There was no need for any of that.

[mps]

I find it ridiculous and not remotely interesting

Personally I found it intriguing. This just shows you how full of bullshit the american government is. It's a disgrace that they did this to completely innocent people, especially the way they announced that they had uncovered terrorist sleeper cells. Terrorists my arse. I can't believe that they spent 1 year of intensive surveillance on one of those cases, which turned out to be a lost cause. Their time and money would be much better spent elsewhere. Some people are so delluded in this world.

[cal1082]

Personally I found it intriguing. This just shows you how full of bullshit the american government is. It's a disgrace that they did this to completely innocent people, especially the way they announced that they had uncovered terrorist sleeper cells. Terrorists my arse. I can't believe that they spent 1 year of intensive surveillance on one of those cases, which turned out to be a lost cause. Their time and money would be much better spent elsewhere. Some people are so delluded in this world.

I seriously dont know if you're joking with this post. The fact that I'm even questioning whether you're joking makes me sad.

I'll tell you this much. I'd like to see you go up to a family member of a person lost in a terrorism attack and pass these hair brain ideas by them. If it was me I'd beat the hell out of someone who pass that idea off to me after I lost a close one in an attack.

It's like arguing drunk driving is bad to a M.A.D.D mother.

[ghostyouare]

ha ha ha ha.

Let me guess the holocaust was a hoax too.

Did you forget what just happened recently?

KILL YOURSELF.
Whoa champ, what the fuck is that about?

And please remind me what happend recently?

[mps]

I seriously dont know if you're joking with this post. The fact that I'm even questioning whether you're joking makes me sad.

I'll tell you this much. I'd like to see you go up to a family member of a person lost in a terrorism attack and pass these hair brain ideas by them. If it was me I'd beat the hell out of someone who pass that idea off to me after I lost a close one in an attack.

It's like arguing drunk driving is bad to a M.A.D.D mother.

No I'm not joking, I'm just expressing that like most of the world, I believe that the american government is full of bullshit half the time. Did you actually watch the video? I'm not arguing about terrorism, so the final statement of your post is of no relevance. All I'm saying is that like the british government (my own government), the americans have a tendancy to wrongly convict people of terrorist activities - that is all I'm trying to get across. How can you arrest someone, and announce to the world that you have captured the first Al Qaeda terrorists bassed in america after finding a tourist video of disneyland, taken by a bunch of muslim teenagers. The american government actually quietly dropped charges, bassed on the fact that they had no grounds to charge them on. Point proven.

[x togepi x]

if Al-Qaeda was fake, then why is Osama from Saudi Arabia, Bush's ally?

You'd think if he was going to make up a fake threat, he'd have done it in Iraq to make it easier make a case to attack them instead of the shoddy WMD one.

Yes, a lot of the war on terror is bull. Like jailing Padilla or this so-called terror cell in Miami, but you can't possibly be telling me that there's no such thing as Al-Qaeda.

and before you go on your "don't trust the gov't" rant, realize that I trust them less than probably anyone on this board. nobody's more liberal than me.

[SePaMc]

sorry, i am not attempting to jack every thread....

but why does everything make me want to go to disneyland today?

[justinevans]

Whoa champ, what the fuck is that about?

And please remind me what happend recently?

they caught the people in Miami planning to bomb the sears tower.

[ghostyouare]

they caught the people in Miami planning to bomb the sears tower.
hahahaha ok did you watch the video? Did you also notice they caught some one planning to blow up disneyland? Anyways if they really did catch some people really trying to blow up the sears tower that doesn't excuse their past activity of dicking over arabs because they want to gloat to the media about it.

[ghostyouare]

if Al-Qaeda was fake, then why is Osama from Saudi Arabia, Bush's ally?

You'd think if he was going to make up a fake threat, he'd have done it in Iraq to make it easier make a case to attack them instead of the shoddy WMD one.

Yes, a lot of the war on terror is bull. Like jailing Padilla or this so-called terror cell in Miami, but you can't possibly be telling me that there's no such thing as Al-Qaeda.

and before you go on your "don't trust the gov't" rant, realize that I trust them less than probably anyone on this board. nobody's more liberal than me.
Whoa, I wasn't too huge on that part and I wasn't really focusing my thread about that. I was more interested in discussing how The American gov't has gone out of line for false triumphs.

[justinevans]

What the hell are you talking about? There was no need for any of that.

If someone cannot comprehend reality and they are as sane as anyone else.

Al Queda and terrorist groups existed before 9/11 people. The problem is that no one cared until we were attacked on our homeland. That is the issue I can see people having, but other than that...Move the fuck on. You're no better than the government you fail to trust and hate.

[justinevans]

No I'm not joking, I'm just expressing that like most of the world, I believe that the american government is full of bullshit half the time. Did you actually watch the video? I'm not arguing about terrorism, so the final statement of your post is of no relevance. All I'm saying is that like the british government (my own government), the americans have a tendancy to wrongly convict people of terrorist activities - that is all I'm trying to get across. How can you arrest someone, and announce to the world that you have captured the first Al Qaeda terrorists bassed in america after finding a tourist video of disneyland, taken by a bunch of muslim teenagers. The american government actually quietly dropped charges, bassed on the fact that they had no grounds to charge them on. Point proven.

Well, we have come to 1984. It sucks, but it has happened.

[justinevans]

if Al-Qaeda was fake, then why is Osama from Saudi Arabia, Bush's ally?

You'd think if he was going to make up a fake threat, he'd have done it in Iraq to make it easier make a case to attack them instead of the shoddy WMD one.

Yes, a lot of the war on terror is bull. Like jailing Padilla or this so-called terror cell in Miami, but you can't possibly be telling me that there's no such thing as Al-Qaeda.

and before you go on your "don't trust the gov't" rant, realize that I trust them less than probably anyone on this board. nobody's more liberal than me.

Osama was banished from Saudi Arabia.

[justinevans]

hahahaha ok did you watch the video? Did you also notice they caught some one planning to blow up disneyland? Anyways if they really did catch some people really trying to blow up the sears tower that doesn't excuse their past activity of dicking over arabs because they want to gloat to the media about it.

How can you make a comment if you don't even follow the news?

MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- Seven people are in custody after a sweep by law enforcement authorities in connection with an alleged plot against targets that may have included the Sears Tower, officials told CNN.

Officials said no weapons or bomb-making materials had been found in the searches in the Miami area by FBI and state and local law enforcement officials. The city is under no imminent threat, according to the FBI.

Law enforcement sources told CNN that the arrests disrupted what may have been the early stages of a domestic terrorist plot to attack the Sears Tower in Chicago, Illinois, the FBI building in Miami, and possibly other targets. (Watch details of the raids -- 2:53)

The 110-story Sears Tower is the world's third-tallest building and the tallest in North America.

Barbara Carley, managing director of the Sears Tower, said in a statement that "it would be inappropriate for us to confirm or deny details of news reports about federal law enforcement action before an official statement from the Justice Department.

"However, Sears Tower security officials regularly speak with the FBI and local law enforcement authorities who track and investigate terrorism threats. Today was no exception," she said. "Despite new information, law enforcement continues to tell us that they have never found evidence of a credible terrorism threat against Sears Tower that has gone beyond criminal discussions."

Law enforcement sources told CNN that some of the suspects are members of a radical Muslim group and that at least one had taken "an al Qaeda oath." They had carried out surveillance on the Sears Tower and FBI building in Miami, the sources said.

Federal law enforcement sources said five of the seven men were Americans, one was an illegal immigrant from Haiti whose visa had expired and the seventh was a resident alien.

Sources told CNN that the arrests culminated a monthslong undercover operation. The suspects believed they were dealing with an al Qaeda operative but the person was actually a government informant, the sources said.

Documents related to the investigation have been sealed.

One of the arrests was made before Thursday, officials said, and one of Thursday's arrests took place in Atlanta, Georgia.

A spokeswoman for Miami-Dade Mayor Carlos Alvarez said the mayor was notified of the raid earlier in the day, and a spokesman for Florida Gov. Jeb Bush said the governor had been notified Thursday morning.

Both Alvarez and Bush said they had no plans to tighten security.

"If anything, this is a plot foiled," Alvarez spokeswoman Vicki Mallette said.

Plans for a massive rally Friday in the city for the Miami Heat, the new National Basketball Association champions, are unchanged, she said, adding that 200,000 people were expected to attend.

The FBI said one search warrant was executed in a warehouse near a housing project in Liberty City, a predominantly black and low-income area of Miami.

Cedric Thomas, a co-owner of Thomas Produce Market, told the Miami Herald that the area around his store was teeming with federal agents.

''There is a ton of guys in uniforms moving around, blocking the streets. I'm not sure what they are doing,'' Thomas told the newspaper.

Neighbors told CNN the men, who wore turbans, caused no problems but acted oddly.

"All you could do was just see their eyes. They had their whole head wrapped up. Just the eyes showing. And they were standing guard -- one here, one there -- like soldiers. Very quiet," one woman said.

A man said the men never spoke to neighbors and would just nod their heads if spoken to.

"They was acting like they was in military training," he said.

Residents living near the warehouse told The Associated Press that the men taken into custody called themselves Muslims and had tried to recruit young people.

The men slept in the warehouse, Tashawn Rose, 29, told the AP.

"They would come out late at night and exercise," she said. "It seemed like a military boot camp that they were working on there. They would come out and stand guard."

The residents told the AP that FBI agents spent several hours seeking information from people in the neighborhood. They said the suspects, who appeared to be in their teens or 20s, had lived in the area for about a year, the AP reported.

"We are conducting a number of arrests and searches, and we'll have more about that when the operation is completed, probably tomorrow morning," FBI Director Robert Mueller told CNN's Larry King in an interview broadcast Thursday night.

"Because it's an ongoing operation, we really can't get into details," Mueller said. "But whenever we undertake an operation like this, we would not do it without the approval of a judge. We've got search warrants and arrest warrants and the like."

In a statement, the U.S. attorney's office in Miami said federal, state and local agencies made the arrests in connection with a domestic "terrorist-related matter."

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales will hold a news conference Friday regarding the raids.

[ghostyouare]

news article.
you have to be the biggest dumb ass I've ever encountered. Stop making false assumptions about me.

[justinevans]

you have to be the biggest dumb ass I've ever encountered. Stop making false assumptions about me.

You said if they even did find people? meaning I implied that you did not read or hear about it.

[ghostyouare]

You said if they even did find people? meaning I implied that you did not read or hear about it.
No I said, "If they really did find people REALLY TRYING TO BLOW UP THE SEARS TOWER" implying that the could have wrongfully arrested people. You're welcome to shut the fuck any time you want.

[justinevans]

No I said, "If they really did find people REALLY TRYING TO BLOW UP THE SEARS TOWER" implying that the could have wrongfully arrested people. You're welcome to shut the fuck any time you want.

well they didn't.

[ghostyouare]

well they didn't.
What makes you so sure?

[justinevans]

What makes you so sure?

If I told you, I'd have to kill you.

[ghostyouare]

If I told you, I'd have to kill you.
Thank you for starting off as an asshole and ending off as a complete moron.

[FallingOut]

Remember a couple of months ago, when the administration announced that, about 4 years ago, they had foiled a terrorists plan to blow up a building (cant remember exactly where it was or what its called sorry)? How ironic that this was at the time when Bush was being attacked for his wire tapping, and the fact that they didnt say anything when it actually happened. And the worst part of it all, was Bush dubbed the building "The Freedom Tower" He said "they tried to blow up the Freedom Tower" The building was not called that at all. Hmmmm, was Bush trying to play some mind tricks? NOOOOO. The Freedom Tower. Wow.

[justinevans]

Thank you for starting off as an asshole and ending off as a complete moron.

No, seriously that guot the guy through an informant. It wasn't the other oneswere they suspected the people and made it seem as if they were a part of something.

[justinevans]

Remember a couple of months ago, when the administration announced that, about 4 years ago, they had foiled a terrorists plan to blow up a building (cant remember exactly where it was or what its called sorry)? How ironic that this was at the time when Bush was being attacked for his wire tapping, and the fact that they didnt say anything when it actually happened. And the worst part of it all, was Bush dubbed the building "The Freedom Tower" He said "they tried to blow up the Freedom Tower" The building was not called that at all. Hmmmm, was Bush trying to play some mind tricks? NOOOOO. The Freedom Tower. Wow.

the thing is, even if they didn't blow up the towers or whatever...the al queda does exist and they also live through people like you that doubt their existence.

Don't take me wrong and say wow are you calling me a terrorist. I am not. People forget the WTC was bombed in 93' too and it was by a different terrorist group. There are terrorist cells everywhere. People hate our government, but they also hate the American way of life and American citizens just as much. So that means me, you, and Bush. --btw, al queda planned 9/11 in 1997

[ghostyouare]

the thing is, even if they didn't blow up the towers or whatever...the al queda does exist and they also live through people like you that doubt their existence.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHA shut the fck up dude. I'm sick of you sounding like Fox News. Now suck my cock and be on your merry way.

[justinevans]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA shut the fck up dude. I'm sick of you sounding like Fox News. Now suck my cock and be on your merry way.

and you sound like the NY Times editorial section?

Lets take things out of context to form a point.

[justinevans]

also, if they didn't exist, with the availability of the internet and global media, don't you think they would have made a statement?

[cal1082]

Remember a couple of months ago, when the administration announced that, about 4 years ago, they had foiled a terrorists plan to blow up a building (cant remember exactly where it was or what its called sorry)? How ironic that this was at the time when Bush was being attacked for his wire tapping, and the fact that they didnt say anything when it actually happened. And the worst part of it all, was Bush dubbed the building "The Freedom Tower" He said "they tried to blow up the Freedom Tower" The building was not called that at all. Hmmmm, was Bush trying to play some mind tricks? NOOOOO. The Freedom Tower. Wow.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/10/politics/10bush.html?ex=1297227600&en=8bea0a75dd5e347b&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Where did he dub it "The Freedom Tower"?

[cal1082]

some of you people are completely ridiculous.........

first, the bush administration is not conducting these arrests. It's the FBI probably 9 out of 10 times, so of course when the FBI makes a bust of what they think is a terrorism plot the Bush administration is going to want to come forward and be proud of that (who wouldnt?).

second, the video points out i believe 2 cases specifically. they completely ignore plots like the shoe bomber, the LA bust of 2002, Padilla (the ones i could think of off the top of my head).

thirdly, the video is criticizing the "Buffalo Six" arrest! WOW, these people trained in training camps. Hell they might not of had a direct plot yet, but who cares! You don't spend months in Afghan. learning how to be a good terrorist unless you have a reason for it. To criticize the arrest of these 6 men is the most absurd thing I've heard in awhile.

[ghostyouare]

some of you people are completely ridiculous.........

first, the bush administration is not conducting these arrests. It's the FBI probably 9 out of 10 times, so of course when the FBI makes a bust of what they think is a terrorism plot the Bush administration is going to want to come forward and be proud of that (who wouldnt?).

second, the video points out i believe 2 cases specifically. they completely ignore plots like the shoe bomber, the LA bust of 2002, Padilla (the ones i could think of off the top of my head).

thirdly, the video is criticizing the "Buffalo Six" arrest! WOW, these people trained in training camps. Hell they might not of had a direct plot yet, but who cares! You don't spend months in Afghan. learning how to be a good terrorist unless you have a reason for it. To criticize the arrest of these 6 men is the most absurd thing I've heard in awhile.
Hey champ before you continue to stick you foot in your mouth I never once directly said "the bush administration" while I did say "the gov't" the FBI would fall under that umbrella. Now stop acting like a hot shot that knows everything. Fine, they trained but that's about as far as it went. There's probably no more ties or anything (sorry for the assumption but I have no reason to believe otherwise and they didn't say they were still linked).

[cal1082]

Hey champ before you continue to stick you foot in your mouth I never once directly said "the bush administration" while I did say "the gov't" the FBI would fall under that umbrella. Now stop acting like a hot shot that knows everything. Fine, they trained but that's about as far as it went. There's probably no more ties or anything (sorry for the assumption but I have no reason to believe otherwise and they didn't say they were still linked).

No other ties...........

What other ties do you want beside training? A full developed plan? How about waiting till they act on it? The FBI should be applauded for arrresting people who train to be terrorists in the camps. I dont know how more "tied" in you can be!

You might not directly said the Bush admin., but that is what movie is getting at and that's the point.

[mps]

If someone cannot comprehend reality and they are as sane as anyone else.

Al Queda and terrorist groups existed before 9/11 people. The problem is that no one cared until we were attacked on our homeland. That is the issue I can see people having, but other than that...Move the fuck on. You're no better than the government you fail to trust and hate.

Hahaha, yes well I'm not even american, so that does make sense.

[x togepi x]

Osama was banished from Saudi Arabia.
yes but if 9/11 ect were all planned, don't you think we would have had Saddam behind it, or at least an Iraqi? That was my original point. You can technically tie Bush to Osama, so if this were all a ruse, wouldn't Bush have the intelligence to make a false enemy that was in no way related to him?

and threadstarter, that's cool. I see what you're saying that a lot of the WoT is bs, which it is, i was just worried this was going to become another oneof those 9/11 was planned, terrorism isn't real discussions that discredits real criticism.

[ghostyouare]

No other ties...........

What other ties do you want beside training? A full developed plan? How about waiting till they act on it? The FBI should be applauded for arrresting people who train to be terrorists in the camps. I dont know how more "tied" in you can be!

You might not directly said the Bush admin., but that is what movie is getting at and that's the point.Holy fuck. Are you kidding me? Training is a crime? Against who? Against what? Fuck man, you're dense. Get your head out of your ass.

[ghostyouare]

and threadstarter, that's cool. I see what you're saying that a lot of the WoT is bs, which it is, i was just worried this was going to become another oneof those 9/11 was planned, terrorism isn't real discussions that discredits real criticism. No, I'm completely aware of terrorism and I have been even previous to 9/11. I just wanted to show the video to show how bad our gov't is conducting the war on terrorism and some shit that is fed to us.

[Lueda Alia]

Just blame everything on the terrorists.

[dai the flu]

ridiculous. if it werent for cal's rational, educated, levelheaded input into these discussions, i wouldnt ever read these threads. im amazed at how incredibly retarded some people can be.

[ghostyouare]

ridiculous. if it werent for cal's rational, educated, levelheaded input into these discussions, i wouldnt ever read these threads. im amazed at how incredibly retarded some people can be.
What's Cal's dick taste like?

[justinevans]

yes but if 9/11 ect were all planned, don't you think we would have had Saddam behind it, or at least an Iraqi? That was my original point. You can technically tie Bush to Osama, so if this were all a ruse, wouldn't Bush have the intelligence to make a false enemy that was in no way related to him?

and threadstarter, that's cool. I see what you're saying that a lot of the WoT is bs, which it is, i was just worried this was going to become another oneof those 9/11 was planned, terrorism isn't real discussions that discredits real criticism.

What? I said it was planned by Al Queda in 1996-97' Not by the government.

[justinevans]

yes but if 9/11 ect were all planned, don't you think we would have had Saddam behind it, or at least an Iraqi? That was my original point. You can technically tie Bush to Osama, so if this were all a ruse, wouldn't Bush have the intelligence to make a false enemy that was in no way related to him?

and threadstarter, that's cool. I see what you're saying that a lot of the WoT is bs, which it is, i was just worried this was going to become another oneof those 9/11 was planned, terrorism isn't real discussions that discredits real criticism.

This is the problem with the world. Everyone wants to wait until something happens to act. Fuck doing anything before hand. There is no evidence until it happens.

Pathetic.

[ghostyouare]

Why did you guys go off topic anyways. I wanted to discuss how the gov't wrongfully arrested these arabic people.

[justinevans]

What's Cal's dick taste like?

Probably the same way dick may taste for you?

[justinevans]

Why did you guys go off topic anyways. I wanted to discuss how the gov't wrongfully arrested these arabic people.

But you act like this is the only government that does anything like this. Your biased hatred for a government you have absolutely nothing to do with is what is wrong. An isolated incident means that governments should not try to arrest people who may be connected with terrorist groups and so forth -- even if it is for questioning?

[ghostyouare]

But you act like this is the only government that does anything like this. Your biased hatred for a government you have absolutely nothing to do with is what is wrong. An isolated incident means that governments should not try to arrest people who may be connected with terrorist groups and so forth -- even if it is for questioning?
Whoa, I hate the government? HAHAHAHA. I was unaware that me being incredibly disappointed in the gov't over this made me hate them before hand. And no, the gov't shouldn't arrest wrongfully arrest a group of people after monitoring them for nearly a year and the best they could come up with is a year old planner.

[justinevans]

Whoa, I hate the government? HAHAHAHA. I was unaware that me being incredibly disappointed in the gov't over this made me hate them before hand. And no, the gov't shouldn't arrest wrongfully arrest a group of people after monitoring them for nearly a year and the best they could come up with is a year old planner.

Yes, you do. Do you actually read some of the shit you say and the tone you use?

[ghostyouare]

Yes, you do. Do you actually read some of the shit you say and the tone you use?
Tone is a strictly vocal. Stop trying to read too deep when you can hardly read at all.

[justinevans]

Tone is a strictly vocal. Stop trying to read too deep when you can hardly read at all.

I can hardly read? Are you fucking kidding me?

In a general sense, 'tone' is the attitude of the speaker or writer as revealed in the choice of vocabulary or the intonation of speech.

You're wrong. I guess that great California education has done nothing for you?

[justinevans]

haha I'm about to start talking shit on NJ

the man that has nothing to do with the conversation steps in? Talk shit on NJ, all you have is what other people may say.

[mps]

Why did you guys go off topic anyways. I wanted to discuss how the gov't wrongfully arrested these arabic people.
Precisely, that's what I've been trying to talk about, but I've been getting shit about "arguing about terrorists", so frankly, I can't be arsed to "discuss" stuff with people in here anymore, as it's not really a discussion.

[ghostyouare]

the man that has nothing to do with the conversation steps in? Talk shit on NJ, all you have is what other people may say.
It's quite hypocritical that you say that.

[justinevans]

It's quite hypocritical that you say that.

how so? I talked about the discussion that you arose.

[ghostyouare]

how so? I talked about the discussion that you arose.
No, you focused on calling me dumb because you thought I said that I agreed that Al Qaeda didn't exist.

[cal1082]

Holy fuck. Are you kidding me? Training is a crime? Against who? Against what? Fuck man, you're dense. Get your head out of your ass.

Well with the posts you've proven how uninformed you really are. I would suggest you get your head in a book, newspaper, or magazine.

It is against the law to give support to recongnized terrorism groups whether that is physical or financial support. Think about it..............? You're providing support for groups that our trying to destroy our country. Why shouldnt it be against the law? Do you support allowing people to give money to Al Qaeda legally?

If you had the slightest clue what you were arguing about you'd know that the 6 in Buffalo all pleaded guilty to it. That's why they recieved a reduced sentance.

Your arguments are about 3 years behind your age.

[cal1082]

Why did you guys go off topic anyways. I wanted to discuss how the gov't wrongfully arrested these arabic people.

Well lets be logical thinkers for a minute.................

First, you're absolutely believing the one side of the argument presented in this "You Tube" video. The governments side is not even presented by themselves. This should set off warning lights and flashes in your head if you're a logical thinker.

Second, the video presents only two examples. The second one of these being a good arrest considering they trained to be terrorists!

You're an excellent example of why critical thinking and research is on the decline. Thanks for the ignorance, at least attempt to portray a college freshmen in the research department.

[cal1082]

Here I'll even help you out further. Save THIS (http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/TeachingLib/Guides/Internet/Evaluate.html) page to your favorites. Since you obviously dont have a "bull shit" meter when it comes to finding information (or if you do you ignore it if it supports what you think) you'll need a guide for the internet.

Many colleges have put these out, but this one is from UC Berkely and explains a "good" source from a "bad" source. If you need help with some of the big words just ask me or one of the other members on the forum.

:D Goodluck!

[lightcollapse]

for once i actually think cal is dead on.

[justinevans]

Here I'll even help you out further. Save THIS (http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/TeachingLib/Guides/Internet/Evaluate.html) page to your favorites. Since you obviously dont have a "bull shit" meter when it comes to finding information (or if you do you ignore it if it supports what you think) you'll need a guide for the internet.

Many colleges have put these out, but this one is from UC Berkely and explains a "good" source from a "bad" source. If you need help with some of the big words just ask me or one of the other members on the forum.

:D Goodluck!

I'd clap my hands, but he'd ask me what your dick tastes like?

[cal1082]

for once i actually think cal is dead on.

one of the first signs of the apocolypse............?;)

[cal1082]

I'd clap my hands, but he'd ask me what your dick tastes like?

I'm guessing it taste like every other pound of man me he's had in his mouth

[xvszero]

the thing is, even if they didn't blow up the towers or whatever...the al queda does exist and they also live through people like you that doubt their existence.

Don't take me wrong and say wow are you calling me a terrorist. I am not. People forget the WTC was bombed in 93' too and it was by a different terrorist group. There are terrorist cells everywhere. People hate our government, but they also hate the American way of life and American citizens just as much. So that means me, you, and Bush. --btw, al queda planned 9/11 in 1997

Maybe TECHNICALLY a different group but, regarding the 1993 attack...

'A Kuwaiti (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuwait) man named Ramzi Yousef (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramzi_Yousef) began in 1991 to plan a bombing attack within the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States). Yousef's uncle Khalid Shaikh Mohammed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Shaikh_Mohammed), considered "the principal architect of the 9/11 attacks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11%2C_2001_attacks)", gave him advice and tips over the phone, and funded him with a US$ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_dollar)660 wire transfer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_transfer).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_bombing#_note-ksm)'

It's all the same guys in the end.

[Broken Parachute]

I know it sounds stupid but..what if we didn't arrest them and they did turn out to be terrorists? Then you guys would be cursing out the government for not doing something.

Whatever the government does, people find things wrong. There's no reason to argue it. Arab people in this country have a bad name because of the terrorists back in their country. I feel kind of bad for them.

[justinevans]

I know it sounds stupid but..what if we didn't arrest them and they did turn out to be terrorists? Then you guys would be cursing out the government for not doing something.

Whatever the government does, people find things wrong. There's no reason to argue it. Arab people in this country have a bad name because of the terrorists back in their country. I feel kind of bad for them.

damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Broken Parachute]

damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Exactly.

[ghostyouare]

I know it sounds stupid but..what if we didn't arrest them and they did turn out to be terrorists? Then you guys would be cursing out the government for not doing something.

Whatever the government does, people find things wrong. There's no reason to argue it. Arab people in this country have a bad name because of the terrorists back in their country. I feel kind of bad for them.
Fine, if you arrest them and check everything out and find nothing then atleast you checked. If you find nothing so you try to cover up fucking up by making bullshit evidence up then you're bound to be criticized.

[cal1082]

Fine, if you arrest them and check everything out and find nothing then atleast you checked. If you find nothing so you try to cover up fucking up by making bullshit evidence up then you're bound to be criticized.

Do you really believe these people should not be arrested for training in camps or supporting them with money?

[Broken Parachute]

Fine, if you arrest them and check everything out and find nothing then atleast you checked. If you find nothing so you try to cover up fucking up by making bullshit evidence up then you're bound to be criticized.
I don't get why they covered it up. They should have just released them.

[cal1082]

I don't get why they covered it up. They should have just released them.

Look at old news articles about. From what I gather you have the gov. putting together a flimsy case as the video states. What the video failed to mention though was one or two (can't remember) were convicted on fraud charges for visas, etc.....

Their was an internal investigation and the government asked the federal judge to have the case dismissed. Apparetnly the judge was very skeptical of the evidence that was brought up by the head prosecutor. The head prosecuter seems to be the main idiot behind the fiasco because there were internal notes by others in the government criticizing what was going on.

So from what I saw it wasn't really a cover up, more like an overzealous prosecutor either being pushed by higher ups to make a case, or attempting to make a name of his own.

[lfdfforever]

No I said, "If they really did find people REALLY TRYING TO BLOW UP THE SEARS TOWER" implying that the could have wrongfully arrested people. You're welcome to shut the fuck any time you want. you owned himmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[x togepi x]

This is the problem with the world. Everyone wants to wait until something happens to act. Fuck doing anything before hand. There is no evidence until it happens.

Pathetic.

are you talking about the recent arrests and padilla? There's no evidence that Padilla was involved in a terror plot at all. and the only thing linking the recent arrests to the sears tower was that one member of the "cell" went to Chicago, once. That's really shady evidence.

it's a waste. especially when there are paramilitary right-wing groups operating in the US.

Nobody's saying wait till something happens, but you have to have some evidence that something is going to happen. you can't arrest someone until it becomes possible for the crime to be committed or until they start actually trying to commit the crime.

when i was little, I used to get bored in class and draw pictures of airplanes running into things. sometimes this was a building. should the federal government arrest me for that?

your logic justifies the federal government arresting anyone who could possibly do something to help the terrorists , which is bad unless they have the intent to carry out said crime. this isn't minority report, just because the government arrests someone and says "oh, he's a terrorist" doesn't mean that the person was actually a terrorist.

and the first part you quoted at me was directed at threadstarter, not at you.

[sweethypocrisy]

trev, you could give cal mountains of evidence on something that goes against our government and hed still call you ignorant. he thinks anyone who has any doubts with some things the government does is retarded/uninformed.

[justinevans]

are you talking about the recent arrests and padilla? There's no evidence that Padilla was involved in a terror plot at all. and the only thing linking the recent arrests to the sears tower was that one member of the "cell" went to Chicago, once. That's really shady evidence.

it's a waste. especially when there are paramilitary right-wing groups operating in the US.

Nobody's saying wait till something happens, but you have to have some evidence that something is going to happen. you can't arrest someone until it becomes possible for the crime to be committed or until they start actually trying to commit the crime.

when i was little, I used to get bored in class and draw pictures of airplanes running into things. sometimes this was a building. should the federal government arrest me for that?

your logic justifies the federal government arresting anyone who could possibly do something to help the terrorists , which is bad unless they have the intent to carry out said crime. this isn't minority report, just because the government arrests someone and says "oh, he's a terrorist" doesn't mean that the person was actually a terrorist.

and the first part you quoted at me was directed at threadstarter, not at you.

Padilla

A convert to Islam, he took the name Abdullah al-Muhajir when he moved to Egypt in 1998. He allegedly trained at al Qaeda's military camps in Afghanistan in 2000 after being recruited by a Yemeni man he met on a pilgrimage to Mecca, according to the government.

The Justice Department said last year that Padilla has told interrogators that before the September 11 terror attacks he met with al Qaeda's late military chief, Mohamed Atef, about the apartment bombing plot, and Abu Zubaydah, the terror group's accused operations chief who is now in custody, about stealing radioactive material to be used in a crude explosive device.

If they are hiding it, I don't know, but from the accusations he should be arrested or atleast questioned. However, he was never arrested for conspiracy to commit terrorist attacks. He was arrested for conspiracy to murder U.S. nationals, conspiracy to provide material support to terrorists and providing material support to terrorists.

That stuff is now against the law? So if he did that stuff, he can be arrested.

Miami Arrest

Batiste allegedly told the informant that he was organizing an Islamic army to wage a jihad in the United States.

The indictment says Batiste gave the informant a list of equipment he needed, including "boots, uniforms, machine guns, radios and vehicles" as well as bullet-proof vests and $50,000 in cash.

There is talk that they may not have officially been a part of Al Queda, however, Al Queda is not the only terrorist group and anyone can be a terrorist. Timothy McVeigh was a murder and terrorist. Just because they may not affiliated with a certain group, it does not mean they cannot be a terrorist.

we'll see what happens in court.

[justinevans]

No, you focused on calling me dumb because you thought I said that I agreed that Al Qaeda didn't exist.

Yes, I think you were stupid to use this video to support your argument.

[justinevans]

No I said, "If they really did find people REALLY TRYING TO BLOW UP THE SEARS TOWER" implying that the could have wrongfully arrested people. You're welcome to shut the fuck any time you want.

Batiste allegedly told the informant that he was organizing an Islamic army to wage a jihad in the United States.

The indictment says Batiste gave the informant a list of equipment he needed, including "boots, uniforms, machine guns, radios and vehicles" as well as bullet-proof vests and $50,000 in cash.

[FallingOut]

trev, you could give cal mountains of evidence on something that goes against our government and hed still call you ignorant. he thinks anyone who has any doubts with some things the government does is retarded/uninformed.

Exactly true. According to Calvin, the administration can do no wrong.

I dont know if Al Qaeda exists or not, I think it probably does, but the government has clearly overblown a lot of things. Like the color warning levels. Come on. If thats not the most obvious example of trying to keep us in fear, what is?

[sweethypocrisy]

Exactly true. According to Calvin, the administration can do no wrong.

I dont know if Al Qaeda exists or not, I think it probably does, but the government has clearly overblown a lot of things. Like the color warning levels. Come on. If thats not the most obvious example of trying to keep us in fear, what is?
yeah, and i always get called an idiot for voicing my opinion on things by him if i dont 100% agree with him. like with the 9/11 thing, i believe that the overall notion of it is plausible, but i dont totally buy the conspiracy, and i dont totally buy the official story. and that makes me a retard.

[histrionics22]

your logic justifies the federal government arresting anyone who could possibly do something to help the terrorists , which is bad unless they have the intent to carry out said crime. this isn't minority report, just because the government arrests someone and says "oh, he's a terrorist" doesn't mean that the person was actually a terrorist.

How do you differentiate the difference between possibly carrying out a threat and intending to? It's virtually impossible.

[cal1082]

trev, you could give cal mountains of evidence on something that goes against our government and hed still call you ignorant. he thinks anyone who has any doubts with some things the government does is retarded/uninformed.

lol..........yes, mountains of evidence in the form of "You Tube" videos.

And the reasons why you're ignorant is because you dont read what I type or dont comprehend it before you post.

"From what I gather you have the gov. putting together a flimsy case as the video states."

See it's clear in the first case in the video and through other readings on it the government screwed up. There's no question, but what you Bush haters want to do is peg the ordeal directly to Bush and that is not clear. If you'd actually take the time to do a little research you might learn something.

That's why you're ignorant.

[cal1082]

Exactly true. According to Calvin, the administration can do no wrong.

I dont know if Al Qaeda exists or not, I think it probably does, but the government has clearly overblown a lot of things. Like the color warning levels. Come on. If thats not the most obvious example of trying to keep us in fear, what is?

I can give you a list of things I've disagreed with when it comes to teh administration and Bush

---Gay marriage amendment
---death penalty
---immigration policy
---handling of iran
---handling of N. Korea
---spending

Oh, and if you dont know if Al Qaeda exists yet than WOW. Also it's just "Cal"

[cal1082]

Also it's not a thing that I think you're an idiot because you dont agree with me (again where your ignorance comes in play). Sadly, there are very few democrats or liberals who post here regularly who have opinions based on good evidence, and common sense thinking.

I'm not gonna give a list of those I think do because I dont want to leave someone out, but I will say read some of Paul's posts. I'm pretty sure the only thing Paul and I agree on is that we don't agree on much, but I like reading his posts and opinions. Look at his posts then compare them to yours and you'll hopefully see what I'm talking about.

[x togepi x]

Padilla

A convert to Islam, he took the name Abdullah al-Muhajir when he moved to Egypt in 1998. He allegedly trained at al Qaeda's military camps in Afghanistan in 2000 after being recruited by a Yemeni man he met on a pilgrimage to Mecca, according to the government.

The Justice Department said last year that Padilla has told interrogators that before the September 11 terror attacks he met with al Qaeda's late military chief, Mohamed Atef, about the apartment bombing plot, and Abu Zubaydah, the terror group's accused operations chief who is now in custody, about stealing radioactive material to be used in a crude explosive device.

If they are hiding it, I don't know, but from the accusations he should be arrested or atleast questioned. However, he was never arrested for conspiracy to commit terrorist attacks. He was arrested for conspiracy to murder U.S. nationals, conspiracy to provide material support to terrorists and providing material support to terrorists.

That stuff is now against the law? So if he did that stuff, he can be arrested.

Miami Arrest

Batiste allegedly told the informant that he was organizing an Islamic army to wage a jihad in the United States.

The indictment says Batiste gave the informant a list of equipment he needed, including "boots, uniforms, machine guns, radios and vehicles" as well as bullet-proof vests and $50,000 in cash.

There is talk that they may not have officially been a part of Al Queda, however, Al Queda is not the only terrorist group and anyone can be a terrorist. Timothy McVeigh was a murder and terrorist. Just because they may not affiliated with a certain group, it does not mean they cannot be a terrorist.

we'll see what happens in court.
my problem with this is that it's all from the government, who's prosecuting these cases. Of course they're going to say that so and so's a terrorist or connected to terror plots. My main problem with the WoT is that it seems to flip innocent until proven guilty around. To win these cases, Padilla or whoever have to prove they're not a terrorist. I think that the government should still have the burden of proof.

It's just that this 180 on innocent until proven guilty coupled with the rapidly increasing executive power of the president that makes up most of my objections to the war on terror. Presidents have been increasing their power for years, it's not just a Bush thing, but it gets really scary when Bush (and it could very will have been Kerry/Clintion) says that he can hold people suspected of a crime indefinitely even though the courts tell him he can't.

that might be me just being the person who doesn't trust the government, and I'll admit that after these court cases, you could be totally right. I just wish there was some other info, like a foreign intel service or something saying the same thing as the USFG.

How do you differentiate the difference between possibly carrying out a threat and intending to? It's virtually impossible.
I admit, it's hard. but the difference is important. It's especially important when people have the ability to twist what you have to says around to make it say anything. Anyone could say something critical of an official and it get turned into a terrorist threat. It doesn't matter if you're talking about why abortion should be banned or ending the war.

I come from a farm community. I know lots of people that have lots of guns (for hunting) and fertilizer+ the equipment to make a bomb (for farming). Sometimes these people say stupid things like X politician should be shot. Does that mean that they're terrorists? No. they had no intent to carry out the crime. They're not going to fill up their truck full of fertilizer or use their guns to take a federal building.

[lightcollapse]

if you think al queda doesn't exist, you're a complete fucking retard.

srsly.


srslysrslysrsly.

[FallingOut]

if you think al queda doesn't exist, you're a complete fucking retard.

srsly.


srslysrslysrsly.

Yes, because, the television told you so. Take some time out of your life and stop to question one thing that youve been told.

srslsly

[Lueda Alia]

if you think al queda doesn't exist, you're a complete fucking retard.

srsly.


srslysrslysrsly.
I think you should stop calling people "idiots" if they believe in something you don't believe in/disagree with you. I've seen you do that quite a lot on this forum.

[x togepi x]

seriously, lay off the al-queda isn't real stuff.

if you're going to try to bring an orwell book to life, you should try the first half of homage to catalonia.

[justinevans]

Yes, because, the television told you so. Take some time out of your life and stop to question one thing that youve been told.

srslsly

hypocrisy (sp?) I'm drunk, so I don't mean to be a dick. I just think we all believe some things that we are told.

[cal1082]

Yes, because, the television told you so. Take some time out of your life and stop to question one thing that youve been told.

srslsly

You always say "because the television told you so" or "because Fox News told you so".

How about becasue the of the unbelievable evidence that they do and the the undeniable fact that Al Qaeda has been a group since for the past 20 years. There's no question.........

Lets not look at every attack since the early 90's.......
Lets not look at Chechnya.......
Lets not look at Kosovo.......
Lets not look at books written by former mujahideen members.......

Denying Al Qaeda is about like denying gravity

[cal1082]

I think you should stop calling people "idiots" if they believe in something you don't believe in/disagree with you. I've seen you do that quite a lot on this forum.

"Republican or not, I cannot understand how anyone that has a brain would/could support him."

[justinevans]

You always say "because the television told you so" or "because Fox News told you so".

How about becasue the of the unbelievable evidence that they do and the the undeniable fact that Al Qaeda has been a group since for the past 20 years. There's no question.........

Lets not look at every attack since the early 90's.......
Lets not look at Chechnya.......
Lets not look at Kosovo.......
Lets not look at books written by former mujahideen members.......

Denying Al Qaeda is about like denying gravity

What? Who is Al Qaeda?

[Lueda Alia]

"Republican or not, I cannot understand how anyone that has a brain would/could support him."
That's different than calling people idiots whenever they have a different opinion. I never said that because I have different views; I said that based on what I know: America has suffered while he's been President and I already explained why I think so.

[cal1082]

That's different than calling people idiots whenever they have a different opinion. I never said that because I have different views; I said that based on what I know: America has suffered while he's been President and I already explained why I think so.

I dont understand how saying someone is brainless and saming someone is an idiot is not the same thing.

[ghostyouare]

I dont understand.
It seems to be a reoccuring theme.

[cal1082]

It seems to be a reoccuring theme.

Really...............a 19 year old kid with evidence rooted in "You Tube" videos..........and you're wanting to take the conversation to not understanding something?

If you cant understand why people should be arrested for training in terrorists camps or giving terrorist groups money then there's not much point in arguing with you because we're both on two different spectrums all together.

[lfdfforever]

One love

[lightcollapse]

I think you should stop calling people "idiots" if they believe in something you don't believe in/disagree with you. I've seen you do that quite a lot on this forum.

k, sorry. i'll try and stop.

just, i mean saying al queda doesn't exist is ridiculous.

watch any documentary about afghanistan or countries surrounding it, al queda is in total control of some areas. i don't understand how someone can doubt its existance.

[lightcollapse]

Yes, because, the television told you so. Take some time out of your life and stop to question one thing that youve been told.

srslsly

what the fuck? you're basing your opinions of a youtube video and telling me to check my sources.

[justinevans]

Yes, because, the television told you so. Take some time out of your life and stop to question one thing that youve been told.

srslsly

you do realize that most tv is fighting your left-wing fight?

[Great Lakes]

Ok seriously some people here need to stop acting like all knowing gods here, your really not, no amount of education, reading or whatever can ever earn you the right to call someone ignorant for taking a different stand point to you. Thats just not right. Discussion not arguement.

Now i'm not going to waste my tme ay Al-Qaeda isn't real, i was in London a year ago when the underground was bombed, i saw what these groups can do. 9/11 was a tragedy, as is any terrorist attack, like Holocaust denial doubting the motive's and numbers is seen as outrageous because of the overwhelming evidence, but still in my view is nothing to prosecute for, just laugh at.

In Britain since the tube bombings, the british security forces have notably fucked up big ( see : The shooting of john de menezes ) but they have admitted they fucked up and the police officers responsible are now facing legal proceedures which could result in life sentences. Now as far as i know the americans haven't fucked up that bad.

Also saying that "just because they were trained terrorists doesn't mean they were gonna do anything" is just a bit silly dont you think? Soldiers train to go to war, and then ship out to go to combat. Its much the same for any terrorist except the fact that there war is in the enemy's country they aren't gonna go round screaming from rooftops "i'm a terrorist", they are going to make sure there is no evidence against them so in the event of them being captured the authorities have very little to keep them in custody for. Training in an Al-Qaeda training camp seems like substantial evidence to me, certainly enough for arrest.

[FallingOut]

what the fuck? you're basing your opinions of a youtube video and telling me to check my sources.

Such unbelievable ignorance. When did I ever claim to support the argument that Al Qaeda didnt exist? Never. When did I site any sources, let alone YouTube? Never. When did I tell you to check your sources? Never. All that I said was dont always believe every single thing you hear on TV. Next time try paying attention.

[FallingOut]

you do realize that most tv is fighting your left-wing fight?

I have never understood this thinking. I constantly hear conservatives saying that there is a left-wing bias on TV, but in my opinion, it leans slightly to the right. Please give me some support for your argument. I really would like to hear it. And it cant be because Ann Coulter told you so.

Now, the last time I checked, conservatives had an entire channel to themselves, Fox News obviously. I am a frequent viewer of MSNBC, which I think does a pretty balanced job, and lets see, who are some of the main anchors on there? Joe Scarborough (my favorite): he admitted on his show he was mostly conservative. Tucker Carlson: very conservative. These are two of the most popular anchors on that channel, and they are conservative. I dont really understand how you can say that TV has a liberal bias. Obviously that is not a complete summary of all TV, but those are two of the biggest news stations. The other one obviously is CNN which does not seem to lean either way to me, I think they report both sides equally. Where this liberal bias is, I would like to know.

[x togepi x]

I have never understood this thinking. I constantly hear conservatives saying that there is a left-wing bias on TV, but in my opinion, it leans slightly to the right. Please give me some support for your argument. I really would like to hear it. And it cant be because Ann Coulter told you so.

Now, the last time I checked, conservatives had an entire channel to themselves, Fox News obviously. I am a frequent viewer of MSNBC, which I think does a pretty balanced job, and lets see, who are some of the main anchors on there? Joe Scarborough (my favorite): he admitted on his show he was mostly conservative. Tucker Carlson: very conservative. These are two of the most popular anchors on that channel, and they are conservative. I dont really understand how you can say that TV has a liberal bias. Obviously that is not a complete summary of all TV, but those are two of the biggest news stations. The other one obviously is CNN which does not seem to lean either way to me, I think they report both sides equally. Where this liberal bias is, I would like to know.

Countdown with Keith Olbermann>everything else on MSNBC, CNN, Fox News...on bad puns alone.

[lightcollapse]

Such unbelievable ignorance. When did I ever claim to support the argument that Al Qaeda didnt exist? Never. When did I site any sources, let alone YouTube? Never. When did I tell you to check your sources? Never. All that I said was dont always believe every single thing you hear on TV. Next time try paying attention.

i said al queda exists, and you told me to stop believing what i hear on tv. i took that as you disagreeing with me.

[ghostyouare]

Really...............a 19 year old kid with evidence rooted in "You Tube" videos..........and you're wanting to take the conversation to not understanding something?

If you cant understand why people should be arrested for training in terrorists camps or giving terrorist groups money then there's not much point in arguing with you because we're both on two different spectrums all together.
Since you're all pretty much dumbasses and completely missed the point of the thread (pointing at cal) I'm closing this thread so I don't have to read anymore nonsense about people accusing me of not believeing in the existance of al aqaeda.

The only purpose of this thread was to shine some light on how assumed terrorists are being treated on American soil.

The fact that it's on youtube doesn't discredit it but yes it's not the most reliable source.

Edit: Damn, I guess you can't close your own threads in the politics section.

[FallingOut]

Countdown with Keith Olbermann>everything else on MSNBC, CNN, Fox News...on bad puns alone.

I do agree with you on this one. I forgot to mention him. How could I say Scarborough is my favorite when there is Olbermann? Damn what a mistake.

[justinevans]

I have never understood this thinking. I constantly hear conservatives saying that there is a left-wing bias on TV, but in my opinion, it leans slightly to the right. Please give me some support for your argument. I really would like to hear it. And it cant be because Ann Coulter told you so.

Now, the last time I checked, conservatives had an entire channel to themselves, Fox News obviously. I am a frequent viewer of MSNBC, which I think does a pretty balanced job, and lets see, who are some of the main anchors on there? Joe Scarborough (my favorite): he admitted on his show he was mostly conservative. Tucker Carlson: very conservative. These are two of the most popular anchors on that channel, and they are conservative. I dont really understand how you can say that TV has a liberal bias. Obviously that is not a complete summary of all TV, but those are two of the biggest news stations. The other one obviously is CNN which does not seem to lean either way to me, I think they report both sides equally. Where this liberal bias is, I would like to know.

60 minutes is liberal. During the election everything was focused on Bush or Bush lying about something involving Kerry. Presenting the news CNN doesn't lean either way too much, but some of their talkshow people are pretty left wing. Fox, we all know is conservative and as stupid as they can get.

However, outside of the news, many of the tv shows or movies have liberal agendas. They push an argument that the left side agrees with..that is why it is called the liberal media. They try to scare the shit out of the public and then you have the right wing just combat it and point out its failures instead of both sides just trying to fucking fix the problems.

[richter915]

60 minutes is liberal. During the election everything was focused on Bush or Bush lying about something involving Kerry. Presenting the news CNN doesn't lean either way too much, but some of their talkshow people are pretty left wing. Fox, we all know is conservative and as stupid as they can get.

However, outside of the news, many of the tv shows or movies have liberal agendas. They push an argument that the left side agrees with..that is why it is called the liberal media. They try to scare the shit out of the public and then you have the right wing just combat it and point out its failures instead of both sides just trying to fucking fix the problems.
Of the three major cable news networks...Fox news has the most viewers...so even with the slight left leanings of other stations...it's not as big of an influence. I live in a liberal household yet we all watch fox news...for some reason I can't explain.

Are you implying that tv shows and movies are a source of information? Whether movies and tv shows lean one way or another should have no influence on political views...and if it does, it obviously didn't make an impact in 2004. the left scares people? that's something new. Go to foxnews...the terror alert is elevated at all times...and during the 04 elections...it was even worse.

this is my opinion...
tv news: equal representation...if anything, right wing leanings due to fox news.
radio: easily right wing
newspapers: far far left
internet: depends on where u go.

[x togepi x]

However, outside of the news, many of the tv shows or movies have liberal agendas. They push an argument that the left side agrees with..that is why it is called the liberal media. They try to scare the shit out of the public and then you have the right wing just combat it and point out its failures instead of both sides just trying to fucking fix the problems.

I don't buy this. Anytime I've seen someone anti-war on a TV show, they've usually been shown in a fairly negative light. for example, there was an episode of law and order where an anti-war activist was killed. The reason he got killed was because he called a dead soldier a baby killer, so his dad flipped out and killed him. Does that seem like a positive light?

Liberals are often painted as clueless peaceniks, who don't "get it" on television, just like conservatives are painted as religious extremists or intolerant assholes. TV doesn't have a poltiical agenda, they pander to what they percieve to be the middle so that they can get the most viewers.

The only left agenda I've ever seen on TV is support of gay rights, which isn't really a liberal issue anymore since there are people on the conservative side who push for gay rights too.

[cal1082]

Since you're all pretty much dumbasses and completely missed the point of the thread (pointing at cal) I'm closing this thread so I don't have to read anymore nonsense about people accusing me of not believeing in the existance of al aqaeda.

The only purpose of this thread was to shine some light on how assumed terrorists are being treated on American soil.

The fact that it's on youtube doesn't discredit it but yes it's not the most reliable source.

Edit: Damn, I guess you can't close your own threads in the politics section.

I'm not accusing you of anything. You said this yourself.............

"Fine, they trained but that's about as far as it went. There's probably no more ties or anything (sorry for the assumption but I have no reason to believe otherwise and they didn't say they were still linked)."

"Holy fuck. Are you kidding me? Training is a crime? Against who? Against what? Fuck man, you're dense. Get your head out of your ass."

[justinevans]

Of the three major cable news networks...Fox news has the most viewers...so even with the slight left leanings of other stations...it's not as big of an influence. I live in a liberal household yet we all watch fox news...for some reason I can't explain.

Are you implying that tv shows and movies are a source of information? Whether movies and tv shows lean one way or another should have no influence on political views...and if it does, it obviously didn't make an impact in 2004. the left scares people? that's something new. Go to foxnews...the terror alert is elevated at all times...and during the 04 elections...it was even worse.

this is my opinion...
tv news: equal representation...if anything, right wing leanings due to fox news.
radio: easily right wing
newspapers: far far left
internet: depends on where u go.

I guess it depends on where you live for radio. Most radio that I've hard is left wing.

[justinevans]

I don't buy this. Anytime I've seen someone anti-war on a TV show, they've usually been shown in a fairly negative light. for example, there was an episode of law and order where an anti-war activist was killed. The reason he got killed was because he called a dead soldier a baby killer, so his dad flipped out and killed him. Does that seem like a positive light?

Liberals are often painted as clueless peaceniks, who don't "get it" on television, just like conservatives are painted as religious extremists or intolerant assholes. TV doesn't have a poltiical agenda, they pander to what they percieve to be the middle so that they can get the most viewers.

The only left agenda I've ever seen on TV is support of gay rights, which isn't really a liberal issue anymore since there are people on the conservative side who push for gay rights too.

tv doesn't have it as much as some movies.

[x togepi x]

tv doesn't have it as much as some movies.
the key phrase here is "some movies". Most movies don't have a wildly liberal agenda. They tend to stick to what's considered moderate. Even movies that do push a liberal viewpoint generally depict liberals in the same negative light that I was talking about earlier.

for example, and anti-war movie will paint the protesters in a negative light and have their protagonist be a "common man" who comes into the stance through his/her own way. It will make sure to point out that they aren't a part of those liberals, but people that merely figured out the truth. and yes, movies demonize conservatives too. it's because they want to get as much money as they can, so they try to go the middle route.

Even extremely political leftist messages get cut out of political movies. Take V For Vendetta. The comic is all about anarchy, with Evey and V talking about the merits of an anarchist society. Do you see that in the movie? No, instead of anarchy, V is talking about abstract notions of freedom. Why? because they wanted the movie to be widely accepted. They didn't want V for Vendetta to end up like Fight Club, another movie with an anarchist message, which was called terrorist.

[justinevans]

the key phrase here is "some movies". Most movies don't have a wildly liberal agenda. They tend to stick to what's considered moderate. Even movies that do push a liberal viewpoint generally depict liberals in the same negative light that I was talking about earlier.

for example, and anti-war movie will paint the protesters in a negative light and have their protagonist be a "common man" who comes into the stance through his/her own way. It will make sure to point out that they aren't a part of those liberals, but people that merely figured out the truth. and yes, movies demonize conservatives too. it's because they want to get as much money as they can, so they try to go the middle route.

Even extremely political leftist messages get cut out of political movies. Take V For Vendetta. The comic is all about anarchy, with Evey and V talking about the merits of an anarchist society. Do you see that in the movie? No, instead of anarchy, V is talking about abstract notions of freedom. Why? because they wanted the movie to be widely accepted. They didn't want V for Vendetta to end up like Fight Club, another movie with an anarchist message, which was called terrorist.

Okay the ones that normally focus on some future event are largely based off liberal ideas. The Day after Tomorrow, V for Vendetta, etc. The shitty you tube documenteries that start this shit.

Yes they want viewers, but there are messages between the lines. Most of your blockbuster political filmmakers and history filmmakers support the left-side and their views.

Fuck Time Magazine even based an article off the day after tomorrow.

The media is overall liberal, a large part coming from newspapers and magazines, but most of your opiniated films and tv shows support liberal views.

Please tell me what conservative films you've seen.