why George is not an idiot

[taintedwatcher]

i want to hear y George Bush is or is not an idiot. I want fact based arguements not emotiaonal rants.

[AShannon04]

You only have 1 post.

[FScott]

kill urself

[MyHeartIsMended]

And why should he kill himself? he has posted a legitimate thread in the proper place. I think that should merit a proper response.

[taintedwatcher]

kill urself
Fucking commie, go back to China

[AShannon04]

well, I think Bush is somewhat of an idiot for the following reasons:
-is trying to impose laws based on moral values (same sex marriage)
-trying to bridge the gap between Church and State

that's all I have for now.

[Broken Parachute]

My family voted for Bush and even they are upset with what he's done. Ask anyone who voted for Bush. Most of them will be upset at him.

[AShannon04]

My family voted for Bush and even they are upset with what he's done. Ask anyone who voted for Bush. Most of them will be upset at him.

yep, my parents are the same way. I think they both voted for Bush, but think he's fucked up royally.

[taintedwatcher]

1. Why do u think that same sex marriage is either bad or good?

2. Bridge the gap between separation of church and state what do u mean? George Bush?

[FondestMemory]

1. Why do u think that same sex marriage is either bad or good?

2. Bridge the gap between separation of church and state what do u mean? George Bush?

1. it's not a matter of thinking it's good or bad. but why should it be illegal? there is no reason for it not to be legal.

2. he's trying to make laws based off of the bible. that's not what this country should be. the bible and laws are two different things, and should stay that way.

[taintedwatcher]

1. THe basic foundation of the American structure is built upon the family, which is defined as being between a man and a woamn. To have gay marriage would degrade the value system which America has up for 200 hundred years.

2. Separation of chruch and state was in a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a friend, not in the Constitution. George is not making decisions based on the Bible. That's like saying a lama eats birds by grabbing it w/ its long tongue.

[AShannon04]

1. Why do u think that same sex marriage is either bad or good?

2. Bridge the gap between separation of church and state what do u mean? George Bush?

1. I don't necessarily agree or disagree with same sex marriage. I think people should have the right to choose who to ove and marry, and it's certainly not something that the president should create a constitutional amendment about just because he disagrees with the morality of it.

2. The United States Constitution clearly states that should be a separation between church and state and that everyone has the freedom of religion. President Bush has made it quite clear that he is an evangelical Christian and has used his position of power to promote Christian values. Examples of this include financially supporting faith-based groups, and on his first day in office, Bush moved to block federal aid to foreign groups that offered counseling or any other assistance to women in obtaining abortions.

[AShannon04]

2. Separation of chruch and state was in a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a friend, not in the Constitution. George is not making decisions based on the Bible. That's like saying a lama eats birds by grabbing it w/ its long tongue.

actually, it's an interpretation of the first amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Using federal funds and the taxpayer's money to support faith-based and religiously-discriminant organizations seems to go against that amendment if you ask me.

[FondestMemory]

1. THe basic foundation of the American structure is built upon the family, which is defined as being between a man and a woamn. To have gay marriage would degrade the value system which America has up for 200 hundred years.

2. Separation of chruch and state was in a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a friend, not in the Constitution. George is not making decisions based on the Bible. That's like saying a lama eats birds by grabbing it w/ its long tongue.

1. who defines it as a man and woman? a family is a family. whether it's a man and woman, or man and man or whatever. wouldn't the main definition be a group of people who love each other unconditionally? how can you try to define who can and can't meet that requirement.

2. this country was founded to give us the right to religious freedom. so, doesn't that negate that if church and state aren't seperated. george bush makes it clear his religion, and he makes it clear that weighs heavily in his decision making. and, llamas? what the fuck?

[FScott]

Fucking commie, go back to China

Maybe I should, in 10 years they will surpass the US. But I'm sure as bright as you are, you knew that already.

[concernedparent]

1. THe basic foundation of the American structure is built upon the family, which is defined as being between a man and a woamn. To have gay marriage would degrade the value system which America has up for 200 hundred years.

2. Separation of chruch and state was in a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a friend, not in the Constitution. George is not making decisions based on the Bible. That's like saying a lama eats birds by grabbing it w/ its long tongue. god damn, you're an idiot. I'm not usually so hateful without explaining myself but jeeze, idiot.

[lilhockeybro]

I first voted in 2004.
I voted for Bush.
I would vote for him again if it werent for the two term limit.

[AShannon04]

I first voted in 2004.
I voted for Bush.
I would vote for him again if it werent for the two term limit.

Why?
We've been at war for more than 3 years and don't seem to be gaining any ground while more and more soldiers die every day. The war is also estimated to eventually cost us more than 1 trillion dollars.
Our economy is at one of its lowest points in our history.
Hundreds of Americans are losing their jobs every day.
The American people don't have any faith in their government.

Please explain this to me.

[FScott]

The American people don't have any faith in their government.

Thats where you are wrong. Polls prove that atleast 29-31% of the nation is on the governments side :unsure:

[FScott]

god damn, you're an idiot. I'm not usually so hateful without explaining myself but jeeze, idiot.

Don't you love those people who are stuck in the past. Past culture, past ideas, past social issues. Times are changing and moving on, but they never will.

[AShannon04]

Thats where you are wrong. Polls prove that atleast 29-31% of the nation is on the governments side :unsure:

haha, silly me

[cal1082]

Why?
We've been at war for more than 3 years and don't seem to be gaining any ground while more and more soldiers die every day.
The war is also estimated to eventually cost us more than 1 trillion dollars.
Our economy is at one of its lowest points in our history.
Hundreds of Americans are losing their jobs every day.
The American people don't have any faith in their government.

Please explain this to me.

Maybe the American people dont have faith in their government because 50% of you're points are flat out wrong.

Yes you have a good arguement and reason to be concerned about about the top two things, but our economy is at one of its strongest points and we've had huge job gains over the past 3 or so years.

[Broken Parachute]

Why?
We've been at war for more than 3 years and don't seem to be gaining any ground while more and more soldiers die every day. The war is also estimated to eventually cost us more than 1 trillion dollars.
Our economy is at one of its lowest points in our history.
Hundreds of Americans are losing their jobs every day.
The American people don't have any faith in their government.

Please explain this to me.
Tell me where you found those facts, please.

[justinevans]

1. Why do u think that same sex marriage is either bad or good?

2. Bridge the gap between separation of church and state what do u mean? George Bush?

1. Same sex marriage has nothing to do with being good or bad. It is a preference and a right. Why there is no amendment? Every person in the country does not follow the same religion as Bush. Leave it up to the states to ban it or not, because the people in that state vote on it. Do not make a constitutional amendment.

2. He is trying to base some laws on Christian values. He may not really want to do it, but it is brought up to swing votes with the Religious right. He needs to let people deal with whatever their morals are with abortion, same-sex marriage etc...he is really not hurting anyone.

3. I am a Republican

[FScott]

4. I wanna kiss you

[justinevans]

1. THe basic foundation of the American structure is built upon the family, which is defined as being between a man and a woamn. To have gay marriage would degrade the value system which America has up for 200 hundred years.

2. Separation of chruch and state was in a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a friend, not in the Constitution. George is not making decisions based on the Bible. That's like saying a lama eats birds by grabbing it w/ its long tongue.

1. Family are you fucking kidding me? So many kids anymore have single parents raising them through divorce or wedlock.

2. I disagree. The first amendment has the freedom to chose whichever belief system you want (religion). You cannot base laws on what the Bible says is right - Judeo-Christian values. Not everyone is Jewish or Christian.

Ask any Northern Republican and that is what they do not like about Bush - He is a religious fanatic.

As much as I think it is ridiculous by the left wing to tear down the 10 commandments and so forth because it has basic moral values, I disagree that you can make laws based off a book or a belief system.

[justinevans]

Maybe I should, in 10 years they will surpass the US. But I'm sure as bright as you are, you knew that already.

yes and no, but they will decline like us. Their standard of living will rise, they are not pegged to the $ anymore meaning their prices will become more expensive and people will start buying from other countries.

[Broken Parachute]

1. Same sex marriage has nothing to do with being good or bad. It is a preference and a right. Why there is no amendment? Every person in the country does not follow the same religion as Bush. Leave it up to the states to ban it or not, because the people in that state vote on it. Do not make a constitutional amendment.

2. He is trying to base some laws on Christian values. He may not really want to do it, but it is brought up to swing votes with the Religious right. He needs to let people deal with whatever their morals are with abortion, same-sex marriage etc...he is really not hurting anyone.

3. I am a Republican
Yep, I'm a Republican and I feel the exact same way.

[justinevans]

Tell me where you found those facts, please.

MTV told him/her so.

[Broken Parachute]

MTV told him/her so.
MTV and kids these days. :shake:

[Justin_stacy]

Why?
We've been at war for more than 3 years and don't seem to be gaining any ground while more and more soldiers die every day. The war is also estimated to eventually cost us more than 1 trillion dollars.
Our economy is at one of its lowest points in our history.
Hundreds of Americans are losing their jobs every day.
The American people don't have any faith in their government.

Please explain this to me.

People have less faith in congress, republicans and democrats, then they do in Bush.
Bush was handed a recession headed economy, 9/11 hit and gas prices climbed ....these things had little to do with him. The economy in general is beyond the presidents reach.
So really all you have is is Iraq....something both parties called for, approved, and thought was needed. Remember Democrats, like Kerry, only changed their opinions on the war, when the war didn't go as planned. And wars never go as planned.

If you're going to call someone out first know your facts/issues.



Personally, though, i wouldn't vote for Bush again. I'm tired of Republicans who act and think like liberal. We live in a nation where the people are prodominately conservative, but where the media is controlled by liberals…..and our politicians need to start pandering to us, rather then trying to appease a media that won’t like them no matter what they do.

[Justin_stacy]

4. I wanna kiss you
:unsure:

[Broken Parachute]

People have less faith in congress, republicans and democrats, then they do in Bush.
Bush was handed a recession headed economy, 9/11 hit and gas prices climbed ....these things had little to do with him. The economy in general is beyond the presidents reach.
So really all you have is is Iraq....something both parties called for, approved, and thought was needed. Remember Democrats, like Kerry, only changed their opinions on the war, when the war didn't go as planned. And wars never go as planned.

If you're going to call someone out first know your facts/issues.



Personally, though, i wouldn't vote for Bush again. I'm tired of Republicans who act and think like liberal. We live in a nation where the people are prodominately conservative, but where the media is controlled by liberals…..and our politicians need to start pandering to us, rather then trying to appease a media that won’t like them no matter what they do.
I'm sick of the media.

[justinevans]

People have less faith in congress, republicans and democrats, then they do in Bush.
Bush was handed a recession headed economy, 9/11 hit and gas prices climbed ....these things had little to do with him. The economy in general is beyond the presidents reach.
So really all you have is is Iraq....something both parties called for, approved, and thought was needed. Remember Democrats, like Kerry, only changed their opinions on the war, when the war didn't go as planned. And wars never go as planned.

If you're going to call someone out first know your facts/issues.



Personally, though, i wouldn't vote for Bush again. I'm tired of Republicans who act and think like liberal. We live in a nation where the people are prodominately conservative, but where the media is controlled by liberals…..and our politicians need to start pandering to us, rather then trying to appease a media that won’t like them no matter what they do.

people base everything on how the economy was under clinton.

we went out of a recession in dec 92' clinton took office jan 93' and went into one in dec 00' and bust came in jan 01'

[matt_rawlings]

I think he has a silly face and smells of poopers.

thread/

[lilhockeybro]

Why?
We've been at war for more than 3 years and don't seem to be gaining any ground while more and more soldiers die every day. The war is also estimated to eventually cost us more than 1 trillion dollars.
Our economy is at one of its lowest points in our history.
Hundreds of Americans are losing their jobs every day.
The American people don't have any faith in their government.

Please explain this to me.
more and more soldiers die every day?

somewhere around forty million babies have been aborted since the late 60's.

i know boo hoo, you dont give a shit.

at least G-Dub is trying to stop that.

[justinevans]

more and more soldiers die every day?

somewhere around forty million babies have been aborted since the late 60's.

i know boo hoo, you dont give a shit.

at least G-Dub is trying to stop that.

well some people need to stop fucking like it is their job.

[FondestMemory]

more and more soldiers die every day?

somewhere around forty million babies have been aborted since the late 60's.

i know boo hoo, you dont give a shit.

at least G-Dub is trying to stop that.

that's kind of a shit argument. you're discrediting the deaths of all the soldiers dying in a meaningless war.

here's how it reads:

soldiers are dying because of the war he put us into for no reason, but at least he's trying to stop abortion.

[domesticyeti]

more and more soldiers die every day?

somewhere around forty million babies have been aborted since the late 60's.

i know boo hoo, you dont give a shit.

at least G-Dub is trying to stop that.


dont discredit soldiers, cuase thats what it sounds like you're doing.
and second, Bush has made almost NO progress is ending abortion.

[Broken Parachute]

I hope John McCain wins the next election. He's so badass. Conservatives and Liberals both like him and he's hysterical.

[x togepi x]

dont discredit soldiers, cuase thats what it sounds like you're doing.
and second, Bush has made almost NO progress is ending abortion.

except for, you know, putting two pro-life people on the supreme court.

[Lueda Alia]

Republican or not, I cannot understand how anyone that has a brain would/could support him.

[preppyak]

2. Separation of chruch and state was in a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a friend, not in the Constitution. George is not making decisions based on the Bible. That's like saying a lama eats birds by grabbing it w/ its long tongue. Aside from being one of the worst analogies I have ever heard, your theory is quite wrong as well. Most of the Bill of Rights is interpreted by the discussion that the original members of the Congress brought forth. For example, it was so universally agreed on about "Freedom of the Press" that there was little to no discussion on it, thus why it is so blurred a line about what that means, since we have no transcripted debate to gauge from. Freedom of Religion was widely discussed both because of leaving the CHurch of England and it's forms of power, and because most of the members of Congress had varied religious views.

If you want want Thomas Jefferson truly thought, here is the Virginia Constituion, in where he specifies that seperation

"[N]o man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities."

2. The United States Constitution clearly states that should be a separation between church and state and that everyone has the freedom of religion. President Bush has made it quite clear that he is an evangelical Christian and has used his position of power to promote Christian values. Examples of this include financially supporting faith-based groups, and on his first day in office, Bush moved to block federal aid to foreign groups that offered counseling or any other assistance to women in obtaining abortions.
The two parts I bolded show the clear difference in views...one that someone shouldn't be punished for having different views via Jefferson, and the other being the specific faith-based punishments via law...which seem to run in opposition. My assumption is that the words of one of the originators of the Constitution may know more what he meant by it.

except for, you know, putting two pro-life people on the supreme court. Do you have an over/under on when Roe v Wade gets brought back up...I'm thinking right around 2008 election time

[preppyak]

Republican or not, I cannot understand how anyone that has a brain would/could support him.
They don't anymore...his approval rating is what, 30ish or so now.

[domesticyeti]

except for, you know, putting two pro-life people on the supreme court.

is abortion over yet? no.
and it's very likely it wont be by the time he leaves office.

not to mention, Justices on the Supreme Court dont necessarily have to be pro-life. They don't vote on their morals, they have to interpret the law. So regardless of whether they are anti-abortion, they cant use that to make thier decision

[Lueda Alia]

They don't anymore...his approval rating is what, 30ish or so now.
I know that, but some people still do. I just don't really understand.

[fedhed7]

He's not fit to run this country.

[preppyak]

He's not fit to run this country.
Though apparently he is one of the most fit presidents ever...physically speaking. He jogs like every day...

is abortion over yet? no.
and it's very likely it wont be by the time he leaves office.

not to mention, Justices on the Supreme Court dont necessarily have to be pro-life. They don't vote on their morals, they have to interpret the law. So regardless of whether they are anti-abortion, they cant use that to make thier decision
You'd like to believe that, but the general rule of Supreme Court voting is quite different, and more often than not it is a moral stance.

This is why you hear senators and representatives complaining about judges "legislating from the bench...", etc. Interpreting the law can be done a number of ways really

[Justin_stacy]

Republican or not, I cannot understand how anyone that has a brain would/could support him.

I feel the same way about democrats with Kerry/Dean and Europeans and Canadians with socialism......its funny how otherwise normally looking people can be so mentally helpless.


Ironic how we feel the same way about each other.....no?

[x togepi x]

is abortion over yet? no.
and it's very likely it wont be by the time he leaves office.

not to mention, Justices on the Supreme Court dont necessarily have to be pro-life. They don't vote on their morals, they have to interpret the law. So regardless of whether they are anti-abortion, they cant use that to make thier decision

is abortion over yet? no. and that's a good thing.

one of those justices, I believe Roberts said that Roe v. Wade wasn't established case law, meaning that he'd probably vote to overturn it if it came to the supreme court. With abortion bans being passed in LA and SD, there's a good chance abortion will go to the supreme court again, and I think it will get overturned.

[Lueda Alia]

I feel the same way about democrats with Kerry/Dean and Europeans and Canadians with socialism......its funny how otherwise normally looking people can be so mentally helpless.


Ironic how we feel the same way about each other.....no?
That's just because we have different political views. With Bush it isn't about political views anymore. It can't be. Hence why I said, "Republican or not."

But either way, it's very easy to understand why people love socialism (ie free health care), and Canada is doing pretty well in general. While liking Bush is a little hard to understand considering that the bad he has done outweighs the good, in my opinion.

[Lueda Alia]

is abortion over yet? no. and that's a good thing.

one of those justices, I believe Roberts said that Roe v. Wade wasn't established case law, meaning that he'd probably vote to overturn it if it came to the supreme court. With abortion bans being passed in LA and SD, there's a good chance abortion will go to the supreme court again, and I think it will get overturned.
I very much doubt that it would stay overturned for a long time, if it does happen in the first place.

[x togepi x]

I don't...it'd require the court shifting back over to the left....which I really doubt will happen all that soon.

[Broken Parachute]

Republican or not, I cannot understand how anyone that has a brain would/could support him.
Hardly anyone does.

[bass ampss]

This thread ALMOST sucks harder than the person who made it.

[Justin_stacy]

That's just because we have different political views. With Bush it isn't about political views anymore. It can't be. Hence why I said, "Republican or not."

No its politically motivated, so it is similar.....

But either way, it's very easy to understand why people love socialism (ie free health care), and Canada is doing pretty well in general. While liking Bush is a little hard to understand considering that the bad he has done outweighs the good, in my opinion.

As for sociallism it is next to impossible for me to understand how someone could "love" being finacially raped in return for second class services and abuses......How weak someone must be to feel they must depended on a government for their well being. But again that's just me.

As for bush he speaks to alot of people, and people can see part of themselves in him. Where as someone like Kerry or Gore speaks down to you, as if they're better then you (ie elitism), Bush seems to speak with you.as an equal. And to alot of people having someone they can relate to is more important then personal politics.

Also as for the "bad out weighing the good" thing, that is also politically motivated. It would seem that socialism has a history of offering more bad then good, so should i find it twice as hard to understand how people can still support idea? Or is that not me bring my own personal bias into the conversation, again?

[Justin_stacy]

is abortion over yet? no. and that's a good thing.

one of those justices, I believe Roberts said that Roe v. Wade wasn't established case law, meaning that he'd probably vote to overturn it if it came to the supreme court. With abortion bans being passed in LA and SD, there's a good chance abortion will go to the supreme court again, and I think it will get overturned.

It was the other guy Alito, Robert implied that it was settled law, but said nothing directly.....but you must also remember that Roe V. Wade was a controversial ruling not only because of the subject matter, but also because of the extreme stretch the court took in justifying it. Many, liberal, constitutional scholars have said the court over stepped its boundaries on this ruling.

[richter915]

He got a C at Yale...pretty pathetic to me. (and yes, by those standards I'd say that other politicians including John Kerry are just as dumb)

[x togepi x]

It was the other guy Alito, Robert implied that it was settled law, but said nothing directly.....but you must also remember that Roe V. Wade was a controversial ruling not only because of the subject matter, but also because of the extreme stretch the court took in justifying it. Many, liberal, constitutional scholars have said the court over stepped its boundaries on this ruling.

damn, i knew it was either Alito or Roberts but not both.

my point is that, i think it's about to get overturned. what you're saying right there kind of backs me up.

[Zeran]

i want to hear y George Bush is or is not an idiot. I want fact based arguements not emotiaonal rants.
HE FUCKING PULLED IRAQ'S WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION OUT OF HIS ASS. and as a result, thousands of americans are dead and wounded. for what? for fucking nothing. and now how long are we in there for? wtf kind of shit is this. it's rigoddamniculous. as if other countries needed more reasons to hate us. shit.

[Justin_stacy]

damn, i knew it was either Alito or Roberts but not both.

my point is that, i think it's about to get overturned. what you're saying right there kind of backs me up.

but that is not the end of abortion.....it would still go back to the states to decide, and chances are, with the support health related abortions have, almost all states would have some form of protection for a womyn. Its the descressionary abortions that are at risk.

[taintedwatcher]

ok been awhile I'll respond

1. I don't necessarily agree or disagree with same sex marriage. I think people should have the right to choose who to ove and marry, and it's certainly not something that the president should create a constitutional amendment about just because he disagrees with the morality of it.

2. The United States Constitution clearly states that should be a separation between church and state and that everyone has the freedom of religion. President Bush has made it quite clear that he is an evangelical Christian and has used his position of power to promote Christian values. Examples of this include financially supporting faith-based groups, and on his first day in office, Bush moved to block federal aid to foreign groups that offered counseling or any other assistance to women in obtaining abortions.
actually, it's an interpretation of the first amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Using federal funds and the taxpayer's money to support faith-based and religiously-discriminant organizations seems to go against that amendment if you ask me.

RESPONSE 1:
1. Same sex marriage isn't just about morals. It's abnout money. If homosexuals have the same rights as hetrosexuals, u, the tax payer, will be paying the taxes for more marriages that the stae provides. Don't u get it? U'd have more money coming out of ur pocket.

2. How is that breaching the clause against making a law that will not separte church and state? Supporting and passing laws are different than supporting special interest groups. If Bill Clinton can sell our weapons secrets to the Chinese for campaign money then George Bush can voice support for Chrisitan groups. U tell me which costs the tax payers more.


RESPONSE 2:
1. who defines it as a man and woman? a family is a family. whether it's a man and woman, or man and man or whatever. wouldn't the main definition be a group of people who love each other unconditionally? how can you try to define who can and can't meet that requirement.

2. this country was founded to give us the right to religious freedom. so, doesn't that negate that if church and state aren't seperated. george bush makes it clear his religion, and he makes it clear that weighs heavily in his decision making. and, llamas? what the fuck?


1. that is true that love being unconditional makes a family, but however, that would mean that congress would have to recognize their legal binding of being a family, which again leads to more money being taken to the government, and u the tax payer losing more money.

2. R u retarded? If George Bush were a muslim, and he voiced that he was going to build a monument to allah in the white house, I'll bet u $100 bucks he'd get away w/ it. But when he voices his opinion (last time I checked speech never cost anything, and merely voicing an opinion was not making a law) he is crucified so to speak by people who think that he is passing a law. If anything I'm glad we have a president who sticks w/ an issue and doesn't flip flop like Mr. Kerry. So in cloasing, why do u pick on a man for his beliefs and freedoms, when that is the very thing that America was founded on. Even the President has the freedoms that are in the bill of rights and the U.S. Constitution. If u say he can't support Christianity by speaking then u are making void the very clause that says we have freedom of speech.

and oh Fscott

Maybe I should, in 10 years they will surpass the US. But I'm sure as bright as you are, you knew that already.

u don't even begin to comprehend. U have che for ur pic that speaks volumes about the intelligent choices u must make

[Paul Tao]

more and more soldiers die every day?

somewhere around forty million babies have been aborted since the late 60's.

i know boo hoo, you dont give a shit.

at least G-Dub is trying to stop that.
hahahahahahahahaha

sorry, just had to pop into this thread to laugh at this.

[FondestMemory]

1. that is true that love being unconditional makes a family, but however, that would mean that congress would have to recognize their legal binding of being a family, which again leads to more money being taken to the government, and u the tax payer losing more money.

2. R u retarded? If George Bush were a muslim, and he voiced that he was going to build a monument to allah in the white house, I'll bet u $100 bucks he'd get away w/ it. But when he voices his opinion (last time I checked speech never cost anything, and merely voicing an opinion was not making a law) he is crucified so to speak by people who think that he is passing a law. If anything I'm glad we have a president who sticks w/ an issue and doesn't flip flop like Mr. Kerry. So in cloasing, why do u pick on a man for his beliefs and freedoms, when that is the very thing that America was founded on. Even the President has the freedoms that are in the bill of rights and the U.S. Constitution. If u say he can't support Christianity by speaking then u are making void the very clause that says we have freedom of speech.

1. so your only problem with same sex marriage is that it will cause more taxes? that's pretty fucking selfish. if me paying a few extra dollars per paycheck means that millions of people are able to love one another and have that love recognized as a legal union, then i think that's worth it.

and since you don't want gays to marry because of the tax money it will take from you, what's your stance on the war without a point that is costing this country billions? that money's coming from the same place you're complaining it'd come from if same sex marriage were legal.

2. where the fuck did i ever say he wasn't allowed to be christian? nowhere. i said he shouldn't be making laws based on his religious beliefs. nobody should. i don't care if he's a christian, but i don't want him making laws with that as his main basis for doing so.

i also find it funny that you asked if i was retarded and followed it with an argument that could have been typed out better by a 9 year old.

[we are cured]

HAHAHAHAHA

These are all political ploys to get the public's attention away from the war in Iraq. Is George Bush an idiot? He might be, but his administration is and his advisors are certainly not idiotic. They diverted attention from our rising budget deficit, bubbling real estate market, and dwindling recession towards the War in 2003 and 2004 in order convince the public that changing a wartime president was a bad, bad thing, which would keep him in power for another term. Now that he's basically in lame duck session after these midterm elections (or the whole term you could argue), the attention is on trivial issues such as same-sex marriage and immigration (while the latter is certainly not trivial, the adminstration's attempt to curb immigration certainly is in that it will never pass).

Point being, the man behind the curtain is not an idiot, they're doing exactly what they wanted to do- two terms for a republican executive. Bush just happened to have the name to get him behind the curtain.

People that go around saying 'oh he's an idiot because of this or that' don't know what they're talking about, because nobody knows exactly what confidential shit lands on his desk every day. But they will in 20 years or so- that's when we can accurately judge the guy.

[cal1082]

1. so your only problem with same sex marriage is that it will cause more taxes? that's pretty fucking selfish. if me paying a few extra dollars per paycheck means that millions of people are able to love one another and have that love recognized as a legal union, then i think that's worth it.

and since you don't want gays to marry because of the tax money it will take from you, what's your stance on the war without a point that is costing this country billions? that money's coming from the same place you're complaining it'd come from if same sex marriage were legal.

2. where the fuck did i ever say he wasn't allowed to be christian? nowhere. i said he shouldn't be making laws based on his religious beliefs. nobody should. i don't care if he's a christian, but i don't want him making laws with that as his main basis for doing so.

i also find it funny that you asked if i was retarded and followed it with an argument that could have been typed out better by a 9 year old.

lol.......what's a loaded question? See above......

[x togepi x]

but that is not the end of abortion.....it would still go back to the states to decide, and chances are, with the support health related abortions have, almost all states would have some form of protection for a womyn. Its the descressionary abortions that are at risk.

functionally, abortion would be over for me since I'm in MO. but I know that many states have trigger laws that ban abortion when Roe gets overturned, so I'm not sure how abortion would look post-roe, I just know that it'd be a lot worse.

though I think of Roe goes, and Bush/someone like him is still in power, we'll see a national law banning it.

[richter915]

HAHAHAHAHA

These are all political ploys to get the public's attention away from the war in Iraq. Is George Bush an idiot? He might be, but his administration is and his advisors are certainly not idiotic. They diverted attention from our rising budget deficit, bubbling real estate market, and dwindling recession towards the War in 2003 and 2004 in order convince the public that changing a wartime president was a bad, bad thing, which would keep him in power for another term. Now that he's basically in lame duck session after these midterm elections (or the whole term you could argue), the attention is on trivial issues such as same-sex marriage and immigration (while the latter is certainly not trivial, the adminstration's attempt to curb immigration certainly is in that it will never pass).

Point being, the man behind the curtain is not an idiot, they're doing exactly what they wanted to do- two terms for a republican executive. Bush just happened to have the name to get him behind the curtain.

People that go around saying 'oh he's an idiot because of this or that' don't know what they're talking about, because nobody knows exactly what confidential shit lands on his desk every day. But they will in 20 years or so- that's when we can accurately judge the guy.
well said my friend. Just look at his approval ratings and everything makes sense.

[commatosa]

George W. Bush is NOT an idiot because

1) he boldly took a step forward and went to war with Iraq without getting most of the facts first and now there's peace in the middle east (finally).

2) his relentless attempt to ban homosexuals from marrying each other. an issue that clearly has been swept under the rug for many decades and needed to be addressed. Well he's cleanin' up shop, yeah!

3) he has shown, by example, that all americans need a little vacation every now and again, even if it IS 50% of their careers, so what?

4) he has looked into the face of the anti-christian constitution and closed the unnecessary gap between church and state.

....that's all I got for now, but I'll have more, you wait.

[richter915]

George W. Bush is NOT an idiot because

1) he boldly took a step forward and went to war with Iraq without getting most of the facts first and now there's peace in the middle east (finally).

2) his relentless attempt to ban homosexuals from marrying each other. an issue that clearly has been swept under the rug for many decades and needed to be addressed. Well he's cleanin' up shop, yeah!

3) he has shown, by example, that all americans need a little vacation every now and again, even if it IS 50% of their careers, so what?

4) he has looked into the face of the anti-christian constitution and closed the unnecessary gap between church and state.

....that's all I got for now, but I'll have more, you wait.
man...it's sad that many people will read what you said and not see the sarcasm.

[bigmike]

1. it's not a matter of thinking it's good or bad. but why should it be illegal? there is no reason for it not to be legal.

2. he's trying to make laws based off of the bible. that's not what this country should be. the bible and laws are two different things, and should stay that way.
if they keep it legal then the whole country will turn gay and we'll all be supporting terrorists soon. obviously. duh.

[x togepi x]

yeah but if we all go gay, and support the terrorists, they won't attack us, thus the threat of terrorism is defeated and america wins the war on terror.

[tiesareforever]

As for bush he speaks to alot of people, and people can see part of themselves in him. Where as someone like Kerry or Gore speaks down to you, as if they're better then you (ie elitism), Bush seems to speak with you.as an equal. And to alot of people having someone they can relate to is more important then personal politics.

This is retarted.

Bush hands down legislation and policy that sends us common folk to war, and to die, and then systamatically strips away our civil liberties.

But that's OK because he's one of us right? I mean he really know's what it's like to struggle and sacrifice.

Just like me he was born into a massively wealthy, and politically powerful family. Just like me he was deftly saved by daddy from armed conflict during the vietnam war (hell even that elitist pussy john kerry couldn't do that). And when he was given the position of governer, and now the presidency, you could just tell that he knew what hard work really was (but then, I guess he learned that from his high school days, slaving to make it into Yale). I mean it was so taxing that he had to take more vacation time than any other president in history.

Well since that's all bullshit it must just be the simple fact that he sounds like a disabled child.

Makes you feel like he really gets you, right?

P.S. I'll stick with my pussy, elitist, out of touch, war hero.

[cal1082]

This is retarted.

Bush hands down legislation and policy that sends us common folk to war, and to die, and then systamatically strips away our civil liberties.

But that's OK because he's one of us right? I mean he really know's what it's like to struggle and sacrifice.

Just like me he was born into a massively wealthy, and politically powerful family. Just like me he was deftly saved by daddy from armed conflict during the vietnam war (hell even that elitist pussy john kerry couldn't do that). And when he was given the position of governer, and now the presidency, you could just tell that he knew what hard work really was (but then, I guess he learned that from his high school days, slaving to make it into Yale). I mean it was so taxing that he had to take more vacation time than any other president in history.

Well since that's all bullshit it must just be the simple fact that he sounds like a disabled child.

Makes you feel like he really gets you, right?

P.S. I'll stick with my pussy, elitist, out of touch, war hero.

You should re-read what he typed

[tiesareforever]

You should re-read what he typed


I think I got it, but if you would like to elaborate please do so...

[Justin_stacy]

This is retarted.

Bush hands down legislation and policy that sends us common folk to war, and to die, and then systamatically strips away our civil liberties.

But that's OK because he's one of us right? I mean he really know's what it's like to struggle and sacrifice.

See the trick is to understand what you’re talking about, Bush handed legislation that almost every politician (D or R) had been calling for years. He did not create support for a war, he did not create the idea of a need for a war and he did not lie (make sure you understand the meaning of that word before you respond) about the war. If people like you would just get your head out of the sand and review a little history. Did you know your "war hero" had been calling for a war against suddum since 97'? And spoke numerous times about how Clinton’s weak response only strengthened suddum resolve?

What do you think Democrats would be saying and doing right now had the WMD's been there in the quantities that they had been saying for years there were? Do you think they'd still be callingthe war a bad idea, or hiding their previous years of support? Or is it more likely that they're all, with the exception of people like Lieberman, opportunist liars? What do you think?

(And I apologize but I’m not even going to touch that asinine statement about civil liberties.)


But back to the original comment; What i was saying is the ability to look and act like a common person allows the voting public to relate to you as one of them. So when you have two incredible flawed options, the one that the non-political majority can relate to more often, is the one that's going to gain more support (similarly this is how Clinton won in 92’). Now that doesn't mean one candidate is necessarily better then the other or smarter, it’s just the truth, people have a better time understanding and supporting those who they can relate too. And either on purpose or just naturally Bush, although clearly not a common citizen, has the ability to relate to the common man, where as someone like Kerry could never have a hope of relating with average Americans because of his elitist demeanor. That is why Bush had supporters in 04', and Kerry had people who didn't like Bush. Kerry had no support in the 04' election because no one but a few highly politicized individuals could relate to him.



P.S. I'll stick with my pussy, elitist, out of touch, war hero.

That wanted and supported a war before his true beliefs were minuplulated by a need for more power.....

November 9, 1997
"We must recognize that there is no indication that Saddam Hussein has any intention of relenting. So we have an obligation of enormous consequence, an obligation to guarantee that Saddam Hussein cannot ignore the United Nations. He cannot be permitted to go unobserved and unimpeded toward his horrific objective of amassing a stockpile of weapons of mass destruction. This is not a matter about which there should be any debate whatsoever in the Security Council, or, certainly, in this Nation. If he remains obdurate, I believe that the United Nations must take, and should authorize immediately, whatever steps are necessary to force him to relent--and that the United States should support and participate in those steps.

We must not presume that these conclusions automatically will be accepted by every one of our allies, some of which have different interests both in the region and elsewhere, or will be of the same degree of concern to them that they are to the U.S. But it is my belief that we have the ability to persuade them of how serious this is and that the U.N. must not be diverted or bullied."

[cal1082]

I think I got it, but if you would like to elaborate please do so...

He never argued that he wasnt well off or that he could be considered average based on wealth and opportunities.

He's talking about how he speaks to people.

"As for bush he speaks to alot of people, and people can see part of themselves in him. Where as someone like Kerry or Gore speaks down to you, as if they're better then you (ie elitism), Bush seems to speak with you.as an equal. And to alot of people having someone they can relate to is more important then personal politics."

[tiesareforever]

He never argued that he wasnt well off or that he could be considered average based on wealth and opportunities.

He's talking about how he speaks to people.


And I'm saying that it's all a sick joke, just because someone is uneducated and a jesus freak doesn't mean that you have to give into his simple words.

And by the way, I was looking at my post and I made a mistake in that it seemed that I was saying that Kerry would have been a good choice for president. I don't mean that at all, I just think that he would have been alot better than Bush.

[Justin_stacy]

And I'm saying that it's all a sick joke, just because someone is uneducated and a jesus freak doesn't mean that you have to give into his simple words..

And people wonder why there is such an aversion to the far left among average citizens?

Yep if you don't want your leaders to have a superiority complex or the personality of dead wood you must be a religious simpleton.

Oh lordy lordy when we in jesusland learns that the government is lord and master, father and mother.....

Being average doesn't mean one is stupid or a "jesus freak," just as being liberal doesn't mean one is a dependent drain on society.....You can't understand what you purposely make yourself ignorant of.

[tiesareforever]

And people wonder why there is such an aversion to the far left among average citizens?

Yep if you don't want your leaders to have a superiority complex or the personality of dead wood you must be a religious simpleton.

Oh lordy lordy when we in jesusland learns that the government is lord and master, father and mother.....

Being average doesn't mean one is stupid or a "jesus freak," just as being liberal doesn't mean one is a dependent drain on society.....You can't understand what you purposely make yourself ignorant of.

You're right, in the literal definition of "average" you don't have to be uneducated or a jesus freak; however, in the context that you are using it, that is exactly what it means.

[x togepi x]

And people wonder why there is such an aversion to the far left among average citizens?

Yep if you don't want your leaders to have a superiority complex or the personality of dead wood you must be a religious simpleton.

Oh lordy lordy when we in jesusland learns that the government is lord and master, father and mother.....

Being average doesn't mean one is stupid or a "jesus freak," just as being liberal doesn't mean one is a dependent drain on society.....You can't understand what you purposely make yourself ignorant of.

while i'm not Christian, it really pisses me off when my comrades rant about jesus freaks when it's completely unnecessary. Some people need to look into liberation theology...

[tiesareforever]

while i'm not Christian, it really pisses me off when my comrades rant about jesus freaks when it's completely unnecessary. Some people need to look into liberation theology...

I do it in this case because Bush is my personal definition of the term "jesus freak". He uses his religious zeletism to guide legislation for an entire country; that pisses me off.

[Justin_stacy]

You're right, in the literal definition of "average" you don't have to be uneducated or a jesus freak; however, in the context that you are using it, that is exactly what it means.

Again it goes back to......ignorance is bliss. No? Ignorant statement after ignorant statement is all you've been able to amass and yet somehow you’ve deemed yourself qualified to comment on the intelligence of others......What the fuck?

Isn't there a pile of sand you need to be returning your head to?

[cal1082]

I do it in this case because Bush is my personal definition of the term "jesus freak". He uses his religious zeletism to guide legislation for an entire country; that pisses me off.

Wait...........what legislation (besides perhaps gay marriage) has Bush used his "religious zeletism" to pass or try to pass?

[Justin_stacy]

Wait...........what legislation (besides perhaps gay marriage) has Bush used his "religious zeletism" to pass or try to pass?

and even redefining marriage is a bad example as it is largely opposed to in most blue states, hardly the land of jesus freaks.

[justinevans]

Wait...........what legislation (besides perhaps gay marriage) has Bush used his "religious zeletism" to pass or try to pass?

abortion

[gillianhsieh]

im pretty moderate. i just want to say, for that taintedwatcher kid, i don't think you know whats up when you say that banning gay marriage is about taxes. in fact i don't even know what it's about myself. how can you say that it's about taxes when like... we should be nailing corporations and really really ridiculous who get huge unnecessary tax breaks too? or the fact that people get shotgun weddings that last at best a year, which arguably trivializes "marriage" more than gay marriage ever would, cause they're just going to be divorced anyway, or unwanted children from unstable straight marriages sap away funding cause you have to foot their foster care etc blah blah

i don't know what it's about, but for sure i'll tell you it's not about taxes, it's about something that i don't think i will ever understand.

[Rebs]

HAHAHAHAHA

These are all political ploys to get the public's attention away from the war in Iraq. Is George Bush an idiot? He might be, but his administration is and his advisors are certainly not idiotic. They diverted attention from our rising budget deficit, bubbling real estate market, and dwindling recession towards the War in 2003 and 2004 in order convince the public that changing a wartime president was a bad, bad thing, which would keep him in power for another term. Now that he's basically in lame duck session after these midterm elections (or the whole term you could argue), the attention is on trivial issues such as same-sex marriage and immigration (while the latter is certainly not trivial, the adminstration's attempt to curb immigration certainly is in that it will never pass).

Point being, the man behind the curtain is not an idiot, they're doing exactly what they wanted to do- two terms for a republican executive. Bush just happened to have the name to get him behind the curtain.

People that go around saying 'oh he's an idiot because of this or that' don't know what they're talking about, because nobody knows exactly what confidential shit lands on his desk every day. But they will in 20 years or so- that's when we can accurately judge the guy.

I have to agree wholeheartedly. The bi-partisan nature of our country has created a huge amount of corruption within them (it's always been around, I'm just finally old enough to be taking notice) and the parties are controlling their candidates. The Republican party has been scrambling to win votes over. By taking a religious, anti-gay marriage, anti-abortion stance, they can win much of the country over. It's a bit pitiful to watch what they're doing with Bush, he seems to be a puppet for the party to pass what it wants.

[Justin_stacy]

abortion

Valuing human life is religious “zeletism?” What next, is understanding right from wrong also religious “zeletism?”

[cal1082]

abortion

It's not religious for aborition. It's a matter of if you think that's a person or not. That's why I didnt include it with gay marriage.

[justinevans]

It's not religious for aborition. It's a matter of if you think that's a person or not. That's why I didnt include it with gay marriage.

Well, I do agree however but much of the fight against abortion is from the religious right.

Both things are truly just for votes anyway. However, when left up to the states, more states have voted against gay marriage and they are also liberal states.

You have many poor people that are also very Christian.

[gillianhsieh]

are you serious you don't think abortion is a religious issue? I would say it is because your religion largely determines the value you place on an unborn child's life or even whether you feel like it has a life or not. and regardless of whether the fetus/embryo is a "person" or not, your religion also determines when you think killing is justified, regardless of if it's a fetus/embryo or normal person, and the standards you will buy for another person's abortion ie viability/risk to mother's life/vested state interest in protecting life as a commodity etc.

[FallingOut]

It's not religious for aborition. It's a matter of if you think that's a person or not. That's why I didnt include it with gay marriage.

I agree with you mostly on this statement. But to say that religion does not influence Bush's or most people's opinions and actions on abortion is just plain wrong. Its obvious that religious people are much more against it. But I am mostly against abortion myself, I think its only right when the woman's life is in danger, and I am not religious whatsoever.