Cartoon Network Cuts Cartel

[Melissa Johnson]

Cartel's (http://absolutepunk.net/cartel) performance on Cartoon Network (in front of 100's of screaming 7 year olds) was an edited version of Honestly, which was about half as long as the original version.

Submitted by veronabryce

[solanka]

Wow, this band is selling out hard.

[jfb392]

Haha, and veronabryce watched it.

[adelphi_rocks]

i wasn't even on the schedule. what time was it on?

[forumreader]

Wow, this band is selling out hard.
They're a pop band playing to a pop crowd...this isn't selling out.

[Chris Fallon]

Any publicity is good publicity.

And at least those 7-year olds are rocking out to a good band.

[andrewlterry]

I don't even understand this. What the hell is Cartel doing?

[Jason Tate]

I don't even understand this. What the hell is Cartel doing?
Playing their song on a national tv show?

[lanolynn]

Playing their song on a national tv show?so cutting their song up for 7 year olds is the same as playing for national tv... sounds like selling out to me.

[rhinitus]

fuck that, you aquateen-loving pricks would jump at the opportunity.

[Jason Tate]

so cutting their song up for 7 year olds is the same as playing for national tv... sounds like selling out to me.
Don't you have to go against your morals and beliefs to sell-out? The band's a pop band wanting to be a HUGE pop band. This was never hidden. They want to sell millions of albums; and to be honest, more power fucking to them. Being honest isn't selling out IMO.

[drumlife04]

i really don't understand why some of you people even bother bashing bands for "selling out." They're making a living doing what they do best...playing music. and if you don't think you'd jump at the opportunity to be rewarded for working hard, then you're an idiot...'cause anyone in their right mind would...also, don't you think you should walk in their shoes before you make comments like that?

[lanolynn]

Don't you have to go against your morals and beliefs to sell-out? The band's a pop band wanting to be a HUGE pop band. This was never hidden. They want to sell millions of albums; and to be honest, more power fucking to them. Being honest isn't selling out IMO.so changing your songs you suposedly put your heart in soul into just to get popular isn't selling out. i guess i don't know what selling out is.

[Jason Tate]

so changing your songs you suposedly put your heart in soul into just to get popular isn't selling out. i guess i don't know what selling out is.
You're right, you don't. How is playing a song to fit into the time slot "selling out"? Here, I'll let someone much smarter and better with words explain it for you. Everyone is required to read this before ever muttering the words "sell out" on this website again.

You actually asked me the question: "Are you taking any steps to keep shit real?" I want you always to look back on this time as being a time when those words came out of your mouth.
Now, there was a time when such a question - albeit probably without the colloquial spin - would have originated from my own brain. Since I was thirteen, sitting in my orange-carpeted bedroom in ostensibly cutting-edge Lake Forest, Illinois, subscribing to the Village Voice and reading the earliest issues of Spin, I thought I had my ear to the railroad tracks of avant garde America. (Laurie Anderson, for example, had grown up only miles away!) I was always monitoring, with the most sensitive and well-calibrated apparatus, the degree of selloutitude exemplified by any given artist - musical, visual, theatrical, whatever. I was vigilant and merciless and knew it was my job to be so.
I bought R.E.M.'s first EP, Chronic Town, when it came out and thought I had found God. I loved Murmur, Reckoning, but then watched, with greater and greater dismay, as this obscure little band's audience grew, grew beyond obsessed people like myself, grew to encompass casual fans, people who had heard a song on the radio and picked up Green and listened for the hits. Old people liked them, and stupid people, and my moron neighbor who had sex with truck drivers. I wanted these phony R.E.M.-lovers dead.
But it was the band's fault, too. They played on Letterman. They switched record labels. Even their album covers seemed progressively more commercial. And when everyone I knew began liking them, I stopped. Had they changed, had their commitment to making art with integrity changed? I didn't care, because for me, any sort of popularity had an inverse relationship with what you term the keeping 'real' of 'shit.' When the Smiths became slightly popular they were sellouts. Bob Dylan appeared on MTV and of course was a sellout. Recently, just at dinner tonight, after a huge, sold-out reading by David Sedaris and Sarah Vowell (both sellouts), I was sitting next to an acquaintance, a very smart acquaintance married to the singer-songwriter of a very well-known band. I mentioned that I had seen the Flaming Lips the night before. She rolled her eyes. "Oh I really liked them on 90210," she sneered, assuming that this would put me and the band in our respective places.
However.
Was she aware that The Flaming Lips had composed an album requiring the simultaneous playing of four separate discs, on four separate CD players? Was she aware that the band had once, for a show at Lincoln Center, handed out to audience members something like 100 portable tape players, with 100 different tapes, and had them all played at the same time, creating a symphonic sort of effect, one which completely devastated everyone in attendance? I went on and on to her about the band's accomplishments, their experiments. Was she convinced that they were more than their one appearance with Jason Priestly? She was.
Now, at that concert the night before, Wayne Coyne, the lead singer, had himself addressed this issue, and to great effect. After playing much of their new album, the band paused and he spoke to the audience. I will paraphrase what he said:
"Hi. Well, some people get all bitter when some song of theirs gets popular, and they refuse to play it. But we're not like that. We're happy that people like this song. So here it goes."
Then they played the song. (You know the song.) "She Don't Use Jelly" is the song, and it is a silly song, and it was their most popular song. But to highlight their enthusiasm for playing the song, the band released, from the stage and from the balconies, about 200 balloons. (Some of the balloons, it should be noted, were released by two grown men in bunny suits.) Then while playing the song, Wayne sang with a puppet on his hand, who also sang into the microphone. It was fun. It was good.
But was it a sellout? Probably. By some standards, yes. Can a good band play their hit song? Should we hate them for this? Probably, probably. First 90210, now they go playing the song every stupid night. Everyone knows that 90210 is not cutting edge, and that a cutting edge alternarock band should not appear on such a show. That rule is clearly stated in the obligatory engrained computer-chip sellout manual that we were all given when we hit adolescence.
But this sellout manual serves only the lazy and small. Those who bestow sellouthood upon their former heroes are driven to do so by, first and foremost, the unshakable need to reduce. The average one of us - a taker-in of various and constant media, is absolutely overwhelmed - as he or she should be - with the sheer volume of artistic output in every conceivable medium given to the world every day - it is simply too much to begin to process or comprehend - and so we are forced to try to sort, to reduce. We designate, we label, we diminish, we create hierarchies and categories.
Through largely received wisdom, we rule out Tom Waits's new album because it's the same old same old, and we save $15. U2 has lost it, Radiohead is too popular. Country music is bad, Puff Daddy is bad, the last Wallace book was bad because that one reviewer said so. We decide that TV is bad unless it's the Sopranos. We liked Rick Moody and Jonathan Lethem and Jeffrey Eugenides until they allowed their books to become movies. And on and on. The point is that we do this and to a certain extent we must do this. We must create categories, and to an extent, hierarchies.
But you know what is easiest of all? When we dismiss.
Oh how gloriously comforting, to be able to write someone off. Thus, in the overcrowded pantheon of alternarock bands, at a certain juncture, it became necessary for a certain brand of person to write off The Flaming Lips, despite the fact that everyone knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that their music was superb and groundbreaking and real. We could write them off because they shared a few minutes with Jason Priestley and that terrifying Tori Spelling person. Or we could write them off because too many magazines have talked about them. Or because it looked like the bassist was wearing too much gel in his hair.
One less thing to think about. Now, how to kill off the rest of our heroes, to better make room for new ones?
We liked Guided by Voices until they let Ric Ocasek produce their latest album, and everyone knows Ocasek is a sellout, having written those mushy Cars songs in the late 80s, and then - gasp! - produced Weezer's album, and of course Weezer's no good, because that Sweater song was on the radio, right, and dorky teenage girls were singing it and we cannot have that and so Weezer is bad and Ocasek is bad and Guided by Voices are bad, even if Spike Jonze did direct that one Weezer video, and we like Spike Jonze, don't we?
Oh. No. We don't. We don't like him anymore because he's married to Sofia Coppola, and she is not cool. Not cool. So bad in Godfather 3, such nepotism. So let's check off Spike Jonze - leaving room in our brains for… who??
It's exhausting.
The only thing worse than this sort of activity is when people, students and teachers alike, run around college campuses calling each other racists and anti-Semites. It's born of boredom, lassitude. Too cowardly to address problems of substance where such problems actually are, we claw at those close to us. We point to our neighbor, in the khakis and sweater, and cry foul. It's ridiculous. We find enemies among our peers because we know them better, and their proximity and familiarity means we don't have to get off the couch to dismantle them.
And now, I am also a sellout. Here are my sins, many of which you may know about already:
First, I was a sellout because Might magazine took ads.
Then I was a sellout because our pages were color, and not stapled together at the Kinko's.
Then I was a sellout because I went to work for Esquire.
Now I'm a sellout because my book has sold many copies.
And because I have done many interviews.
And because I have let people take my picture.
And because my goddamn picture has been in just about every fucking magazine and newspaper printed in America.
And now, as far as McSweeney's is concerned, The Advocate interviewer wants to know if we're losing also our edge, if the magazine is selling out, hitting the mainstream, if we're still committed to publishing unknowns, and pieces killed by other magazines.
And the fact is, I don't give a fuck. When we did the last issue, this was my thought process: I saw a box. So I decided we'd do a box. We were given stories by some of our favorite writers - George Saunders, Rick Moody (who is uncool, uncool!), Haruki Murakami, Lydia Davis, others - and so we published them. Did I wonder if people would think we were selling out, that we were not fulfilling the mission they had assumed we had committed ourselves to?
No. I did not. Nor will I ever. We just don't care. We care about doing what we want to do creatively. We want to be interested in it. We want it to challenge us. We want it to be difficult. We want to reinvent the stupid thing every time. Would I ever think, before I did something, of how those with sellout monitors would respond to this or that move? I would not. The second I sense a thought like that trickling into my brain, I will put my head under the tires of a bus.
You want to know how big a sellout I am?
A few months ago I wrote an article for Time magazine and was paid $12,000 for it I am about to write something, 1,000 words, 3 pages or so, for something called Forbes ASAP, and for that I will be paid $6,000 For two years, until five months ago, I was on the payroll of ESPN magazine, as a consultant and sometime contributor. I was paid handsomely for doing very little. Same with my stint at Esquire. One year I spent there, with little to no duties. I wore khakis every day. Another Might editor and I, for almost a year, contributed to Details magazine, under pseudonyms, and were paid $2000 each for what never amounted to more than 10 minutes work - honestly never more than that. People from Hollywood want to make my book into a movie, and I am probably going to let them do so, and they will likely pay me a great deal of money for the privilege.
Do I care about this money? I do. Will I keep this money? Very little of it. Within the year I will have given away almost a million dollars to about 100 charities and individuals, benefiting everything from hospice care to an artist who makes sculptures from Burger King bags. And the rest will be going into publishing books through McSweeney's. Would I have been able to publish McSweeney's if I had not worked at Esquire? Probably not. Where is the $6000 from Forbes going? To a guy named Joe Polevy, who wants to write a book about the effects of radiator noise on children in New England.
Now, what if I were keeping all the money? What if I were buying property in St. Kitt's or blew it all on live-in prostitutes? What if, for example, I was, a few nights ago, sitting at a table in SoHo with a bunch of Hollywood slash celebrity acquaintances, one of whom I went to high school with, and one of whom was Puff Daddy? Would that make me a sellout? Would that mean I was a force of evil?
What if a few nights before that I was at the home of Julian Schnabel, at a party featuring Al Pacino and Robert DeNiro, and at which Schnabel said we should get together to talk about him possibly directing my movie? And what if I said sure, let's?
Would all that make me a sellout? Would I be uncool? Would it have been more cool to not go to this party, or to not have written that book, or done that interview, or to have refused millions from Hollywood?
The thing is, I really like saying yes. I like new things, projects, plans, getting people together and doing something, trying something, even when it's corny or stupid. I am not good at saying no. And I do not get along with people who say no. When you die, and it really could be this afternoon, under the same bus wheels I'll stick my head if need be, you will not be happy about having said no. You will be kicking your ass about all the no's you've said. No to that opportunity, or no to that trip to Nova Scotia or no to that night out, or no to that project or no to that person who wants to be naked with you but you worry about what your friends will say.
No is for wimps. No is for pussies. No is to live small and embittered, cherishing the opportunities you missed because they might have sent the wrong message.
There is a point in one's life when one cares about selling out and not selling out. One worries whether or not wearing a certain shirt means that they are behind the curve or ahead of it, or that having certain music in one's collection means that they are impressive, or unimpressive.
Thankfully, for some, this all passes. I am here to tell you that I have, a few years ago, found my way out of that thicket of comparison and relentless suspicion and judgment. And it is a nice feeling. Because, in the end, no one will ever give a shit who has kept shit 'real' except the two or three people, sitting in their apartments, bitter and self-devouring, who take it upon themselves to wonder about such things. The keeping real of shit matters to some people, but it does not matter to me. It's fashion, and I don't like fashion, because fashion does not matter.
What matters is that you do good work. What matters is that you produce things that are true and will stand. What matters is that the Flaming Lips's new album is ravishing and I've listened to it a thousand times already, sometimes for days on end, and it enriches me and makes me want to save people. What matters is that it will stand forever, long after any narrow-hearted curmudgeons have forgotten their appearance on goddamn 90210. What matters is not the perception, nor the fashion, not who's up and who's down, but what someone has done and if they meant it. What matters is that you want to see and make and do, on as grand a scale as you want, regardless of what the tiny voices of tiny people say. Do not be critics, you people, I beg you. I was a critic and I wish I could take it all back because it came from a smelly and ignorant place in me, and spoke with a voice that was all rage and envy. Do not dismiss a book until you have written one, and do not dismiss a movie until you have made one, and do not dismiss a person until you have met them. It is a fuckload of work to be open-minded and generous and understanding and forgiving and accepting, but Christ, that is what matters. What matters is saying yes.
I say yes, and Wayne Coyne says yes, and if that makes us the enemy, then good, good, good. We are evil people because we want to live and do things. We are on the wrong side because we should be home, calculating which move would be the least damaging to our downtown reputations. But I say yes because I am curious. I want to see things. I say yes when my high school friend tells me to come out because he's hanging with Puffy. A real story, that. I say yes when Hollywood says they'll give me enough money to publish a hundred different books, or send twenty kids through college. Saying no is so fucking boring. And if anyone wants to hurt me for that, or dismiss me for that, for saying yes, I say Oh do it, do it you motherfuckers, finally, finally, finally.

That gasp of air coming out of your mouth right now is the sound of you choking on the words you can no longer speak. "Owned" is the term most people use - I'll just sit back and hope your mind has been significantly blown.

[Melissa Johnson]

so cutting their song up for 7 year olds is the same as playing for national tv... sounds like selling out to me.
Jesus Christ, I've only seen you post twice, and you seem negative about everything. It's not selling out. Any band that tells you that they're "doing it for the music" is completely bullshitting you. The objective of every band is to make music, yes, but all the while making money to support themselves off of it and make a living. Do you go to work just because "you love the place"? Hell no you don't. You go for a paycheck, but wait, should I call you a "sell out" because that's why you go to work? To make money? No. So don't call Cartel a sell-out for getting their music out to a new demographic. Also, lots of songs are cut during performances. Do you see American Idol playing the entire song? No, you don't.

[lanolynn]

A) You're right, you don't. How is playing a song to fit into the time slot "selling out"? Here, I'll let someone much smarter and better with words explain it for you. Everyone is required to read this before ever muttering the words "sell out" on this website again.

You actually asked me the question: "Are you taking any steps to keep shit real?" I want you always to look back on this time as being a time when those words came out of your mouth.
Now, there was a time when such a question - albeit probably without the colloquial spin - would have originated from my own brain. Since I was thirteen, sitting in my orange-carpeted bedroom in ostensibly cutting-edge Lake Forest, Illinois, subscribing to the Village Voice and reading the earliest issues of Spin, I thought I had my ear to the railroad tracks of avant garde America. (Laurie Anderson, for example, had grown up only miles away!) I was always monitoring, with the most sensitive and well-calibrated apparatus, the degree of selloutitude exemplified by any given artist - musical, visual, theatrical, whatever. I was vigilant and merciless and knew it was my job to be so.
I bought R.E.M.'s first EP, Chronic Town, when it came out and thought I had found God. I loved Murmur, Reckoning, but then watched, with greater and greater dismay, as this obscure little band's audience grew, grew beyond obsessed people like myself, grew to encompass casual fans, people who had heard a song on the radio and picked up Green and listened for the hits. Old people liked them, and stupid people, and my moron neighbor who had sex with truck drivers. I wanted these phony R.E.M.-lovers dead.
But it was the band's fault, too. They played on Letterman. They switched record labels. Even their album covers seemed progressively more commercial. And when everyone I knew began liking them, I stopped. Had they changed, had their commitment to making art with integrity changed? I didn't care, because for me, any sort of popularity had an inverse relationship with what you term the keeping 'real' of 'shit.' When the Smiths became slightly popular they were sellouts. Bob Dylan appeared on MTV and of course was a sellout. Recently, just at dinner tonight, after a huge, sold-out reading by David Sedaris and Sarah Vowell (both sellouts), I was sitting next to an acquaintance, a very smart acquaintance married to the singer-songwriter of a very well-known band. I mentioned that I had seen the Flaming Lips the night before. She rolled her eyes. "Oh I really liked them on 90210," she sneered, assuming that this would put me and the band in our respective places.
However.
Was she aware that The Flaming Lips had composed an album requiring the simultaneous playing of four separate discs, on four separate CD players? Was she aware that the band had once, for a show at Lincoln Center, handed out to audience members something like 100 portable tape players, with 100 different tapes, and had them all played at the same time, creating a symphonic sort of effect, one which completely devastated everyone in attendance? I went on and on to her about the band's accomplishments, their experiments. Was she convinced that they were more than their one appearance with Jason Priestly? She was.
Now, at that concert the night before, Wayne Coyne, the lead singer, had himself addressed this issue, and to great effect. After playing much of their new album, the band paused and he spoke to the audience. I will paraphrase what he said:
"Hi. Well, some people get all bitter when some song of theirs gets popular, and they refuse to play it. But we're not like that. We're happy that people like this song. So here it goes."
Then they played the song. (You know the song.) "She Don't Use Jelly" is the song, and it is a silly song, and it was their most popular song. But to highlight their enthusiasm for playing the song, the band released, from the stage and from the balconies, about 200 balloons. (Some of the balloons, it should be noted, were released by two grown men in bunny suits.) Then while playing the song, Wayne sang with a puppet on his hand, who also sang into the microphone. It was fun. It was good.
But was it a sellout? Probably. By some standards, yes. Can a good band play their hit song? Should we hate them for this? Probably, probably. First 90210, now they go playing the song every stupid night. Everyone knows that 90210 is not cutting edge, and that a cutting edge alternarock band should not appear on such a show. That rule is clearly stated in the obligatory engrained computer-chip sellout manual that we were all given when we hit adolescence.
But this sellout manual serves only the lazy and small. Those who bestow sellouthood upon their former heroes are driven to do so by, first and foremost, the unshakable need to reduce. The average one of us - a taker-in of various and constant media, is absolutely overwhelmed - as he or she should be - with the sheer volume of artistic output in every conceivable medium given to the world every day - it is simply too much to begin to process or comprehend - and so we are forced to try to sort, to reduce. We designate, we label, we diminish, we create hierarchies and categories.
Through largely received wisdom, we rule out Tom Waits's new album because it's the same old same old, and we save $15. U2 has lost it, Radiohead is too popular. Country music is bad, Puff Daddy is bad, the last Wallace book was bad because that one reviewer said so. We decide that TV is bad unless it's the Sopranos. We liked Rick Moody and Jonathan Lethem and Jeffrey Eugenides until they allowed their books to become movies. And on and on. The point is that we do this and to a certain extent we must do this. We must create categories, and to an extent, hierarchies.
But you know what is easiest of all? When we dismiss.
Oh how gloriously comforting, to be able to write someone off. Thus, in the overcrowded pantheon of alternarock bands, at a certain juncture, it became necessary for a certain brand of person to write off The Flaming Lips, despite the fact that everyone knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that their music was superb and groundbreaking and real. We could write them off because they shared a few minutes with Jason Priestley and that terrifying Tori Spelling person. Or we could write them off because too many magazines have talked about them. Or because it looked like the bassist was wearing too much gel in his hair.
One less thing to think about. Now, how to kill off the rest of our heroes, to better make room for new ones?
We liked Guided by Voices until they let Ric Ocasek produce their latest album, and everyone knows Ocasek is a sellout, having written those mushy Cars songs in the late 80s, and then - gasp! - produced Weezer's album, and of course Weezer's no good, because that Sweater song was on the radio, right, and dorky teenage girls were singing it and we cannot have that and so Weezer is bad and Ocasek is bad and Guided by Voices are bad, even if Spike Jonze did direct that one Weezer video, and we like Spike Jonze, don't we?
Oh. No. We don't. We don't like him anymore because he's married to Sofia Coppola, and she is not cool. Not cool. So bad in Godfather 3, such nepotism. So let's check off Spike Jonze - leaving room in our brains for… who??
It's exhausting.
The only thing worse than this sort of activity is when people, students and teachers alike, run around college campuses calling each other racists and anti-Semites. It's born of boredom, lassitude. Too cowardly to address problems of substance where such problems actually are, we claw at those close to us. We point to our neighbor, in the khakis and sweater, and cry foul. It's ridiculous. We find enemies among our peers because we know them better, and their proximity and familiarity means we don't have to get off the couch to dismantle them.
And now, I am also a sellout. Here are my sins, many of which you may know about already:
First, I was a sellout because Might magazine took ads.
Then I was a sellout because our pages were color, and not stapled together at the Kinko's.
Then I was a sellout because I went to work for Esquire.
Now I'm a sellout because my book has sold many copies.
And because I have done many interviews.
And because I have let people take my picture.
And because my goddamn picture has been in just about every fucking magazine and newspaper printed in America.
And now, as far as McSweeney's is concerned, The Advocate interviewer wants to know if we're losing also our edge, if the magazine is selling out, hitting the mainstream, if we're still committed to publishing unknowns, and pieces killed by other magazines.
And the fact is, I don't give a fuck. When we did the last issue, this was my thought process: I saw a box. So I decided we'd do a box. We were given stories by some of our favorite writers - George Saunders, Rick Moody (who is uncool, uncool!), Haruki Murakami, Lydia Davis, others - and so we published them. Did I wonder if people would think we were selling out, that we were not fulfilling the mission they had assumed we had committed ourselves to?
No. I did not. Nor will I ever. We just don't care. We care about doing what we want to do creatively. We want to be interested in it. We want it to challenge us. We want it to be difficult. We want to reinvent the stupid thing every time. Would I ever think, before I did something, of how those with sellout monitors would respond to this or that move? I would not. The second I sense a thought like that trickling into my brain, I will put my head under the tires of a bus.
You want to know how big a sellout I am?
A few months ago I wrote an article for Time magazine and was paid $12,000 for it I am about to write something, 1,000 words, 3 pages or so, for something called Forbes ASAP, and for that I will be paid $6,000 For two years, until five months ago, I was on the payroll of ESPN magazine, as a consultant and sometime contributor. I was paid handsomely for doing very little. Same with my stint at Esquire. One year I spent there, with little to no duties. I wore khakis every day. Another Might editor and I, for almost a year, contributed to Details magazine, under pseudonyms, and were paid $2000 each for what never amounted to more than 10 minutes work - honestly never more than that. People from Hollywood want to make my book into a movie, and I am probably going to let them do so, and they will likely pay me a great deal of money for the privilege.
Do I care about this money? I do. Will I keep this money? Very little of it. Within the year I will have given away almost a million dollars to about 100 charities and individuals, benefiting everything from hospice care to an artist who makes sculptures from Burger King bags. And the rest will be going into publishing books through McSweeney's. Would I have been able to publish McSweeney's if I had not worked at Esquire? Probably not. Where is the $6000 from Forbes going? To a guy named Joe Polevy, who wants to write a book about the effects of radiator noise on children in New England.
Now, what if I were keeping all the money? What if I were buying property in St. Kitt's or blew it all on live-in prostitutes? What if, for example, I was, a few nights ago, sitting at a table in SoHo with a bunch of Hollywood slash celebrity acquaintances, one of whom I went to high school with, and one of whom was Puff Daddy? Would that make me a sellout? Would that mean I was a force of evil?
What if a few nights before that I was at the home of Julian Schnabel, at a party featuring Al Pacino and Robert DeNiro, and at which Schnabel said we should get together to talk about him possibly directing my movie? And what if I said sure, let's?
Would all that make me a sellout? Would I be uncool? Would it have been more cool to not go to this party, or to not have written that book, or done that interview, or to have refused millions from Hollywood?
The thing is, I really like saying yes. I like new things, projects, plans, getting people together and doing something, trying something, even when it's corny or stupid. I am not good at saying no. And I do not get along with people who say no. When you die, and it really could be this afternoon, under the same bus wheels I'll stick my head if need be, you will not be happy about having said no. You will be kicking your ass about all the no's you've said. No to that opportunity, or no to that trip to Nova Scotia or no to that night out, or no to that project or no to that person who wants to be naked with you but you worry about what your friends will say.
No is for wimps. No is for pussies. No is to live small and embittered, cherishing the opportunities you missed because they might have sent the wrong message.
There is a point in one's life when one cares about selling out and not selling out. One worries whether or not wearing a certain shirt means that they are behind the curve or ahead of it, or that having certain music in one's collection means that they are impressive, or unimpressive.
Thankfully, for some, this all passes. I am here to tell you that I have, a few years ago, found my way out of that thicket of comparison and relentless suspicion and judgment. And it is a nice feeling. Because, in the end, no one will ever give a shit who has kept shit 'real' except the two or three people, sitting in their apartments, bitter and self-devouring, who take it upon themselves to wonder about such things. The keeping real of shit matters to some people, but it does not matter to me. It's fashion, and I don't like fashion, because fashion does not matter.
What matters is that you do good work. What matters is that you produce things that are true and will stand. What matters is that the Flaming Lips's new album is ravishing and I've listened to it a thousand times already, sometimes for days on end, and it enriches me and makes me want to save people. What matters is that it will stand forever, long after any narrow-hearted curmudgeons have forgotten their appearance on goddamn 90210. What matters is not the perception, nor the fashion, not who's up and who's down, but what someone has done and if they meant it. What matters is that you want to see and make and do, on as grand a scale as you want, regardless of what the tiny voices of tiny people say. Do not be critics, you people, I beg you. I was a critic and I wish I could take it all back because it came from a smelly and ignorant place in me, and spoke with a voice that was all rage and envy. Do not dismiss a book until you have written one, and do not dismiss a movie until you have made one, and do not dismiss a person until you have met them. It is a fuckload of work to be open-minded and generous and understanding and forgiving and accepting, but Christ, that is what matters. What matters is saying yes.
I say yes, and Wayne Coyne says yes, and if that makes us the enemy, then good, good, good. We are evil people because we want to live and do things. We are on the wrong side because we should be home, calculating which move would be the least damaging to our downtown reputations. But I say yes because I am curious. I want to see things. I say yes when my high school friend tells me to come out because he's hanging with Puffy. A real story, that. I say yes when Hollywood says they'll give me enough money to publish a hundred different books, or send twenty kids through college. Saying no is so fucking boring. And if anyone wants to hurt me for that, or dismiss me for that, for saying yes, I say Oh do it, do it you motherfuckers, finally, finally, finally. i don't consider a single band mentioned in the the above statement a sell out. and that is probably because none of those bands edited their songs for a crowd full of 7 year olds. have the flaming lips or rem ever been on cartoon network? somehow i doubt it. there is a difference between becoming popular based purely on your music as the examples stated above and playing to a crowd of children who have no idea what the fuck your song is even about. if cartel wnats to be the most popular band amongst 7-10 year olds then more power to them. i just thought they were different than simple plan and good charolette. if one more good band does this shit i am just gonna snap.

[Jason Tate]

i don't consider a single band mentioned in the the above statement a sell out. and that is probably because none of those bands edited their songs for a crowd full of 7 year olds. have the flaming lips or rem ever been on cartoon network? somehow i doubt it. there is a difference between becoming popular based purely on your music as the examples stated above and playing to a crowd of children who have no idea what the fuck your song is even about. if cartel wnats to be the most popular band amongst 7-10 year olds then more power to them. i just thought they were different than simple plan and good charolette. if one more good band does this shit i am just gonna snap.
I'd like you to return your brain to the plant, it's been recalled. You need a new one. Seriously. I shouldn't try and even explain things to some of you people, it's so obviously over your head that it's not even funny. From now on the obligatory, "you're a fucking idiot" will have to suffice.

[livelovecrydie]

IMO, you guys are all wrong about selling out.

the only way a band sells out (to me) is if they make an album or two, and then they realize some certain aspect of their band needs to be changed to 'make it big'. for example.. changing their style of music (drastically), getting rid of a band member (ala yellowcard).

i dont see how a band can 'sell out' with their first album. if their initial intention was to make poppy music that appeals to a certain large, music-buying demographic, and they are successful doing that, then they didnt 'sell out', they just accomplished their goal.

[Amplifried]

i don't consider a single band mentioned in the the above statement a sell out. and that is probably because none of those bands edited their songs for a crowd full of 7 year olds. have the flaming lips or rem ever been on cartoon network? somehow i doubt it. there is a difference between becoming popular based purely on your music as the examples stated above and playing to a crowd of children who have no idea what the fuck your song is even about. if cartel wnats to be the most popular band amongst 7-10 year olds then more power to them. i just thought they were different than simple plan and good charolette. if one more good band does this shit i am just gonna snap.

The Flaming Lips did a a really lame fucking song for that shitty fucking Spongebob Movie. I don't think they are sell outs because of it though.

Also, sell outs or not.... I think it's fucking funny as fuck that Cartel played for a bunch of 7-10 year old kids. Has to be kind of embaressing.

[lanolynn]

I'd like you to return your brain to the plant, it's been recalled. You need a new one. Seriously. I shouldn't try and even explain things to some of you people, it's so obviously over your head that it's not even funny. From now on the obligatory, "you're a fucking idiot" will have to suffice. ok so i have no brain. please, since you're a fucking genious, explain to me how a band that wrote songs about things 7 year olds have no idea about, yet plays for them, is cool to you but a band who's parents supported their band isn't. could it be you helped promote the band that plays for 7 year olds and you would look bad if you criticized them now.

[Chris Fallon]

Sometimes, in order to go through with contractual obligations, you have to minimize part of your original plan in order to suffice with someone elses. In this case, Cartel had to edit down their song for the Cartoon Network for whatever undisclosed reasons. Probably because a bunch of kids can't really sit through a 3 minute pop song to begin with, and because the network doesn't want to show the entire song, since other bands are doing it, as well. If you claim that to be selling out - and I'm looking directly at you, lanolynn - then your definition of selling out is increasingly vague and you are detached from the world as we know it.

Oh and I'm sure you're due back at ACE hardware soon, because you are a tool.

[Chris Fallon]

ok so i have no brain. please, since you're a fucking genious, explain to me how a band that wrote songs about things 7 year olds have no idea about, yet plays for them, is cool to you but a band who's parents supported their band isn't. could it be you helped promote the band that plays for 7 year olds and you would look bad if you criticized them now.

Pwned

EDIT: SAT score, quick!

[Jason Tate]

ok so i have no brain. please, since you're a fucking genious, explain to me how a band that wrote songs about things 7 year olds have no idea about, yet plays for them, is cool to you but a band who's parents supported their band isn't. could it be you helped promote the band that plays for 7 year olds and you would look bad if you criticized them now.
Well, sure, show me a few things:

1) Only 7 year olds watched this show.
2) The song wasn't written for 7 year olds.
3) I ever said I gave a flying fuck who listens to this pop band.

The issue here, brainless fuckhead, is that you're just wrong. You're a douche with nothing to do tonight except sit around here and try and act like your opinion on this topic matters. Let me break it to you: IT DOESN'T. Not only that, but you're just flat out wrong. You have no legs to stand on. You're making assumptions and presumptions based on things you HAVE NO FUCKING PROOF of -- do you realize how fucking stupid that makes you? Seriously. Sit back, re-evaluate what you're doing with your night! You're arguing OVER A POP BAND ON A WEBSITE! Come on!! And then you're arguing over a band that flat out laid their intentions out when they started the band!! My word. You feel it yet? You feel that aching sensation in the back of your head? It's your brain trying to wake up and tell you that you're fucking stupid.

PS. The issue with CIWWAF was never, ever, ever about anything more then how badly they suck and how they lie to their fans - that's it.

[Melissa Johnson]

ok so i have no brain. please, since you're a fucking genious, explain to me how a band that wrote songs about things 7 year olds have no idea about, yet plays for them, is cool to you but a band who's parents supported their band isn't. could it be you helped promote the band that plays for 7 year olds and you would look bad if you criticized them now.
There's nothing wrong with CIWWAF's parents "supporting" them. I have several friends in touring bands who's parents still wire them money so they can eat while on tour. However, you're acting as i Cartel has a CHOICE of whether or not they do certain things. Ever given the thought that since they're on a major label, the label might have said "OK, you guys. Play Cartoon Network. And by the way, your song is being edited (ie shortened) to fit the time slot. We also have avid 7yr old Cartoon Network fans in the crowd. Now go put on your instruments and play."? Most bands on majors DON'T have a choice when doing certain things. I highly doubt Cartel had any say in their song being edited and the crowd given to them.

[Amplifried]

Well, sure, show me a few things:

1) Only 7 year olds watched this show.
2) The song wasn't written for 7 year olds.
3) I ever said I gave a flying fuck who listens to this pop band.

The issue here, brainless fuckhead, is that you're just wrong. You're a douche with nothing to do tonight except sit around here and try and act like your opinion on this topic matters. Let me break it to you: IT DOESN'T. Not only that, but you're just flat out wrong. You have no legs to stand on. You're making assumptions and presumptions based on things you HAVE NO FUCKING PROOF of -- do you realize how fucking stupid that makes you? Seriously. Sit back, re-evaluate what you're doing with your night! You're arguing OVER A POP BAND ON A WEBSITE! Come on!! And then you're arguing over a band that flat out laid their intentions out when they started the band!! My word. You feel it yet? You feel that aching sensation in the back of your head? It's your brain trying to wake up and tell you that you're fucking stupid.

PS. The issue with CIWWAF was never, ever, ever about anything more then how badly they suck and how they lie to their fans - that's it.

To be fair, you're arguing with him about it, dear leader.

[Jason Tate]

To be fair, you're arguing with him about it, dear leader.
But I get paid to sit here and argue with people on a website - it's my fucking job and a very huge portion of my life - for starters.

[Amplifried]

But I get paid to sit here and argue with people on a website - it's my fucking job and a very huge portion of my life - for starters.

Word. I only posted in this thread, because my little brother was watching this evening. He's 10. I thought it was pretty damn funny that he was asking why Coheed couldn't be on there. I wonder if they'd edit their songs down at all.

[lanolynn]

Well, sure, show me a few things:

1) Only 7 year olds watched this show.
2) The song wasn't written for 7 year olds.
3) I ever said I gave a flying fuck who listens to this pop band.


The issue here, brainless fuckhead, is that you're just wrong. You're a douche with nothing to do tonight except sit around here and try and act like your opinion on this topic matters. Let me break it to you: IT DOESN'T. Not only that, but you're just flat out wrong. You have no legs to stand on. You're making assumptions and presumptions based on things you HAVE NO FUCKING PROOF of -- do you realize how fucking stupid that makes you? Seriously. Sit back, re-evaluate what you're doing with your night! You're arguing OVER A POP BAND ON A WEBSITE! Come on!! And then you're arguing over a band that flat out laid their intentions out when they started the band!! My word. You feel it yet? You feel that aching sensation in the back of your head? It's your brain trying to wake up and tell you that you're fucking stupid. check your own damn website to see where i found out they played for a bunch of seven year olds. secondly listen to the damn song and tell me you would have understood what it meant when you were 7 years old. sure you might have liked the tune but does that mean you got it. number 3, you promoted the shit out of this band and i'm sure you made bank for doing it so i think you probably do give a shit if people listen to this band. i first heard of cartel because of your websites leak. why would you do all that if you didn't care? finally you yourself earlier claimed cartel is a band whose goal has always been to make it big. how is that different from other bands who you have ripped apart for making it their goal to make it big, such as cute is what we aim for. i enjoy both bands and don't understand why you don't since their is very little differences other than the fact one paid you to promote them. also you make fun of me for arguing on a website, but look who i'm arguing with. it's you.

[Chris Fallon]

Word. I only posted in this thread, because my little brother was watching this evening. He's 10. I thought it was pretty damn funny that he was asking why Coheed couldn't be on there. I wonder if they'd edit their songs down at all.

Just the thought of Co&Ca on Cartoon Network is enough to make somebody's head explode. That'd be the trip of all trips. Just seeing the entranced and confused 7-year olds in the crowd would be a highlight. "Wow, your hair is so big."

[Chris Fallon]

check your own damn website to see where i found out they played for a bunch of seven year olds. secondly listen to the damn song and tell me you would have understood what it meant when you were 7 years old. sure you might have liked the tune but does that mean you got it. number 3, you promoted the shit out of this band and i'm sure you made bank for doing it so i think you probably do give a shit if people listen to this band. i first heard of cartel because of your websites leak. why would you do all that if you didn't care? finally you yourself earlier claimed cartel is a band whose goal has always been to make it big. how is that different from other bands who you have ripped apart for making it their goal to make it big, such as cute is what we aim for. i enjoy both bands and don't understand why you don't since their is very little differences other than the fact one paid you to promote them. also you make fun of me for arguing on a website, but look who i'm arguing with. it's you.

"Honey, I just don't think little Billy here is getting it...."

[Amplifried]

Just the thought of Co&Ca on Cartoon Network is enough to make somebody's head explode. That'd be the trip of all trips. Just seeing the entranced and confused 7-year olds in the crowd would be a highlight. "Wow, your hair is so big."

I would not trust Claudio Sanchez around my children. That's why I love him so much.

[Melissa Johnson]

check your own damn website to see where i found out they played for a bunch of seven year olds. secondly listen to the damn song and tell me you would have understood what it meant when you were 7 years old. sure you might have liked the tune but does that mean you got it. number 3, you promoted the shit out of this band and i'm sure you made bank for doing it so i think you probably do give a shit if people listen to this band. i first heard of cartel because of your websites leak. why would you do all that if you didn't care? finally you yourself earlier claimed cartel is a band whose goal has always been to make it big. how is that different from other bands who you have ripped apart for making it their goal to make it big, such as cute is what we aim for. i enjoy both bands and don't understand why you don't since their is very little differences other than the fact one paid you to promote them. also you make fun of me for arguing on a website, but look who i'm arguing with. it's you.
And if instead of having your head stuck up your fucking ass and you actually READ the post, you see that it was submitted by a USER. A USER submitted that they had the OPINION that the crowd was full of 7 year olds. Shut the fuck up.

[chcougar1]

okay.

Damn there is a lot of bitching going on in this thread. I used to listen to a lot of rap (2 pac, biggie, master p, the hot boyz, etc) Then I was introduced to this wonderful genre of music called emo/indie/alt rock/pop punk whatever. It showed me that music played by instruments and actually written by the band members was light years better than what I used to listen to. The only thing I dont like about this change is the fans.

It seems like the majority of the people that listen to pop punk, hardcore, etc are soooooooooo fucking bent on everyone being perfect and not "selling out" if a band gets popular then they sold out and they are fucking lame now. Get a fucking life people. Quit bitching about bands you used to like and still do but wont admit it because all the stupid teenage girls like them. Get over it, they are making money doing what they love and making people happy to see their shows and sing along.

I've never written anything like this before on ap.net, but I figured now would be a good time because as mentioned before Cartel didnt fucking edit their songs..they just played shorter versions to fit the time slot.

Yes it bothers me that they played for 7 year olds, but you know what it is exposure and likely something their record label signed them up to do. Hell maybe they even WANTED to do this...if so thats great.

Personally I think they just need to get on SNL or some other show to boost them. I surprised they are not already much bigger. They also need to do their own national headlining tour, which will probably follow the new found glory tour...

anyways I am posting because I'm tired of 95% of the fans of the music that I love the most are a bunch of fucking whiners and losers who try to belittle people and bitch about something positive that bands are doing.

Get a life

[Jason Tate]

check your own damn website to see where i found out they played for a bunch of seven year olds.

Uhm, I guess you don't get hyperbole very well, that's understandable seeing as you haven't grasped a single concept brought forth in this thread.

secondly listen to the damn song and tell me you would have understood what it meant when you were 7 years old.

It's a pop song, pretty sure the meaning is second to the hook and cheesy guitar line. Does it matter if a 7 year old "gets" a song? Does it really effect you in some profound way!? Why do you care so much about how OTHERS feel or don't feel? Is that your deal, do you need everyone to "get it" or they're not "worthy"? Your life must be PATHETIC.

number 3, you promoted the shit out of this band and i'm sure you made bank for doing it so i think you probably do give a shit if people listen to this band. i first heard of cartel because of your websites leak. why would you do all that if you didn't care? finally you yourself earlier claimed cartel is a band whose goal has always been to make it big. how is that different from other bands who you have ripped apart for making it their goal to make it big, such as cute is what we aim for. i enjoy both bands and don't understand why you don't since their is very little differences other than the fact one paid you to promote them. also you make fun of me for arguing on a website, but look who i'm arguing with. it's you.

You're right, the difference is that Cartel's label didn't spend a fucking DIME on their promotion of that album on AP.net. I did all their promo/banners/leak for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. CIWWAF's label spent money on their ads for this website - Cartel didn't.

UH OH - here we go again, those little things called "facts" get in the way of your supposed "slam" on me!? That must suck.

I have NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, ripped on a band for making it their goal to get big. This is a flat out fucking lie - and you know it.

I already addressed your last point, it's my job to sit here and argue - I'm making money doing it - what's your excuse?

[lanolynn]

And if instead of having your head stuck up your fucking ass and you actually READ the post, you see that it was submitted by a USER. A USER submitted that they had the OPINION that the crowd was full of 7 year olds. Shut the fuck up. well if a user submitted that as an opinion it should be in the the genearl forums. here is "news" from a user, jason tate has lost his mind. please post this on the main page.

[Chris Fallon]

well if a user submitted that as an opinion it should be in the the genearl forums. here is "news" from a user, jason tate has lost his mind. please post this on the main page.

Here are the real Neandrathals, ladies and gentlemen...here are the real ones.

[chcougar1]

well if a user submitted that as an opinion it should be in the the genearl forums. here is "news" from a user, jason tate has lost his mind. please post this on the main page.

If these site ever closes because of people like you I will be sooo pissed and it will just show everyone how lame they are for being stupid fucks

[Jason Tate]

well if a user submitted that as an opinion it should be in the the genearl forums. here is "news" from a user, jason tate has lost his mind. please post this on the main page.
This is how the website's been ran for 8 years. The same amount of time some of the people watching Cartel tonight have BEEN ALIVE, is how love I've ran MY website this way. How is this all of a sudden a shock to you? It's pretty fucking crystal clear to me.

[Jason Tate]

If these site ever closes because of people like you I will be sooo pissed and it will just show everyone how lame they are for being stupid fucks
Yep, Lanolynn just did it - I'm pissed - let's toss up the for sale sign.

Hahaha.. this kid's a fucking idiot. Like I'm sorry, if you can read Dave Egger's essay and still be so ignorant that you argue the "sell out" angle - you deserve the name calling that is inevitable.

People like him ... I shake my head ... laugh ... and just tell myself I'll never raise my kid to think that way.

[Amplifried]

Well, it's been interesting listening to you chuckle fucks bitch on the Internet. Hey, you know I mean that in the most endearing way possible. I'm going to call it a night and listen to some nice, soothing Genghis Tron.

G'night QTs ;*

[chcougar1]

Yep, Lanolynn just did it - I'm pissed - let's toss up the for sale sign.

Hahaha.. this kid's a fucking idiot. Like I'm sorry, if you can read Dave Egger's essay and still be so ignorant that you argue the "sell out" angle - you deserve the name calling that is inevitable.

People like him ... I shake my head ... laugh ... and just tell myself I'll never raise my kid to think that way.

Haha good to know man ....I visit this site probably 10 times a day...it IS my outlet for good music:) keep up the good work man...are you going to any shows coming up here in Portland? Brand new, madina lake/race the sun/so they say, the fray, and/or warped?

I've always thought about looking around for you at shows, but then figured I'd never be able to recognize you !!!!

anyways man good job on the site..its amazing

[IamTheINDUSTRY]

Yep, Lanolynn just did it - I'm pissed - let's toss up the for sale sign.

Hahaha.. this kid's a fucking idiot. Like I'm sorry, if you can read Dave Egger's essay and still be so ignorant that you argue the "sell out" angle - you deserve the name calling that is inevitable.

People like him ... I shake my head ... laugh ... and just tell myself I'll never raise my kid to think that way.So you owuld place Cartel, who plays a concert for the Cartoon Network, in the same vein as bands like R.E.M. and The Flaming Lips?

[Jason Tate]

Haha good to know man ....I visit this site probably 10 times a day...it IS my outlet for good music:) keep up the good work man...are you going to any shows coming up here in Portland? Brand new, madina lake/race the sun/so they say, the fray, and/or warped?

I've always thought about looking around for you at shows, but then figured I'd never be able to recognize you !!!!

anyways man good job on the site..its amazing
I'll be at the Brand New show on the 12th. I usually hang out in the back - inconspicuously (who'd of thought from my attitude on the website, eh?). Feel free to look for me or say hi if you find me, I'm pretty approachable - and look similar to my profile picture. Email me before the show or something, I'll tell you what I'm wearing to make it easy on you.

[Jason Tate]

So you owuld place Cartel, who plays a concert for the Cartoon Network, in the same vein as bands like R.E.M. and The Flaming Lips?
You do realize the actual bands listed in the essay were personal examples meant to symbolize and stand for all artists and musicans, right? Guess not. Shocking.

[Chris Fallon]

So you owuld place Cartel, who plays a concert for the Cartoon Network, in the same vein as bands like R.E.M. and The Flaming Lips?

Who gives a shit who they play a concert for? It could be the fucking Oxygen network for all I care - either way, it's all publicity to further their career.

[Jason Tate]

Who gives a shit who they play a concert for? It could be the fucking Oxygen network for all I care - either way, it's all publicity to further their career.
He doesn't get it .. it's okay .. he just drew the short straw in life, not much he can do about it now.

[IamTheINDUSTRY]

You do realize the actual bands listed in the essay were personal examples meant to symbolize and stand for all artists and musicans, right? Guess not. Shocking. But the bands mentioned in the essay got popular based on their music, not appearing Cartoon Network.

[chcougar1]

I'll be at the Brand New show on the 12th. I usually hang out in the back - inconspicuously (who'd of thought from my attitude on the website, eh?). Feel free to look for me or say hi if you find me, I'm pretty approachable - and look similar to my profile picture. Email me before the show or something, I'll tell you what I'm wearing to make it easy on you.

I'm getting pretty old so I will probably be in the balcony at that show...I'll be standing all night monday at dashboard in seattle so I doubt I will be on the floor for Brand New...If I recognize you I will say whats up....I wouldnt know what else to say..so if I dont then just know that you're website owns:)

[Chris Fallon]

He doesn't get it .. it's okay .. he just drew the short straw in life, not much he can do about it now.

These things happen, I guess. Some people lack basic intelligence to get them through even the most simple situations.

[bigmike]

So i'm pretty sure that my head exploded from reading some of the things in this thread.

[chcougar1]

umm Cartel could get popular because of their music they just have to be EXPOSED like every other band

[Jason Tate]

But the bands mentioned in the essay got popular based on their music, not appearing Cartoon Network.
Are you for reals? Music doesn't magically get popular. There isn't a "everyone now listens to us" fairy. The EXACT EXAMPLE in the fucking essay was about a band being on 90210 (A TV SHOW, because I doubt you'd figure that out). Furthermore the essay isn't about those bands - GO READ THE FUCKING THING AGAIN - it's about the attitude of cock-weasels like yourself.

[bigmike]

Are you for reals? Music doesn't magically get popular. There isn't a "everyone now listens to us" fairy. The EXACT EXAMPLE in the fucking essay was about a band being on 90210 (A TV SHOW, because I doubt you'd figure that out). Furthermore the essay isn't about those bands - GO READ THE FUCKING THING AGAIN - it's about the attitude of cock-weasels like yourself.
the majority of the kids on this site i don't think have the attention span to read that entire essay.

[Chris Fallon]

the majority of the kids on this site i don't think have the attention span to read that entire essay.

The man speaks truths.

[Jason Tate]

the majority of the kids on this site i don't think have the attention span to read that entire essay.
I know. I bolded some key points for the MTV generation, but I don't think that helped either.

[Nolessthanblink]

check your own damn website to see where i found out they played for a bunch of seven year olds. secondly listen to the damn song and tell me you would have understood what it meant when you were 7 years old. sure you might have liked the tune but does that mean you got it. number 3, you promoted the shit out of this band and i'm sure you made bank for doing it so i think you probably do give a shit if people listen to this band. i first heard of cartel because of your websites leak. why would you do all that if you didn't care? finally you yourself earlier claimed cartel is a band whose goal has always been to make it big. how is that different from other bands who you have ripped apart for making it their goal to make it big, such as cute is what we aim for. i enjoy both bands and don't understand why you don't since their is very little differences other than the fact one paid you to promote them. also you make fun of me for arguing on a website, but look who i'm arguing with. it's you.

So wait, you're saying that you have to "get" what a song means to enjoy it? I know for damn sure that when I was 7 I wasn't looking for the inner, deeper meanings in songs... if it sounded good I liked it... Im sure thats what these kids did too... dumbass. Jason owned you. :)

[bigmike]

I know. I bolded some key points for the MTV generation, but I don't think that helped either.
yeah, i think they conveniently 'missed' those. that is assuming, of course, that they even glanced at it, which I'm pretty sure they didn't.

[IamTheINDUSTRY]

Are you for reals? Music doesn't magically get popular. There isn't a "everyone now listens to us" fairy. The EXACT EXAMPLE in the fucking essay was about a band being on 90210 (A TV SHOW, because I doubt you'd figure that out). Furthermore the essay isn't about those bands - GO READ THE FUCKING THING AGAIN - it's about the attitude of cock-weasels like yourself. I seriously doubt that The Flaming Lips trace there popularity to having there song played on 90210. Personally I hear about most new music through this site, but I find it frustrating that this site is so biased some times. I understand that this is your site and you value your opinions, but this website could become one of the top spots for credible news.

[Jason Tate]

I seriously doubt that The Flaming Lips trace there popularity to having there song played on 90210. Personally I hear about most new music through this site, but I find it frustrating that this site is so biased some times. I understand that this is your site and you value your opinions, but this website could become one of the top spots for credible news.
I don't want it to be. It's funny how you are the champion against these "sellouts" known as Cartel, yet you are openly ask me to change MY believes and MY integrity to become something I actively campaign against.

Ironic much?

[Chris Fallon]

Hey, I read it. I thought it was one of the best music-related essays I've ever read, to be honest. It's too bad that dumbass kid didn't seem to get the main idea, but then again...it's kind of long, it has big words in it, and it actually has a profound message to lay out about the "sell out" term that is often given to popular musicians.

Sometimes, it's just better to walk away. Lanolyn had to learn the hard way and be owned and then banned by our fearless leader, Mr. Jason Tate. *APPLAUSE*

[chcougar1]

does this guy think he stand a chance against the creator of this website and the hundreds of people that will defend Jason.....let alone the fact that he is completely wrong?

[Jason Tate]

does this guy think he stand a chance against the creator of this website and the hundreds of people that will defend Jason.....let alone the fact that he is completely wrong?
:worship: me my minions.

I am being sarcastic, in case I have to spell that out for anyone.

[bigmike]

Hey, I read it. I thought it was one of the best music-related essays I've ever read, to be honest. It's too bad that dumbass kid didn't seem to get the main idea, but then again...it's kind of long, it has big words in it, and it actually has a profound message to lay out about the "sell out" term that is often given to popular musicians.

Sometimes, it's just better to walk away. Lanolyn had to learn the hard way and be owned and then banned by our fearless leader, Mr. Jason Tate. *APPLAUSE*
haha, did lanolyn get banned? what is this Jason, the sports forum? :)

[chcougar1]

:worship: me my minions.

I am being sarcastic, in case I have to spell that out for anyone.

Haha you kick so much ass man....and damn closing in on 25,000 posts...amazing

[Jason Tate]

haha, did lanolyn get banned? what is this Jason, the sports forum? :)
Hahahaha.. I banned him for 2 days, he is "IAMTheINsider" too though - according to our IP logs at least.

Sports forum tirade, what? LOL. Those were horrible. I'm not like that anymore ... well, untill next year's tourney maybe. ;)

[Nolessthanblink]

I seriously doubt that The Flaming Lips trace there popularity to having there song played on 90210. Personally I hear about most new music through this site, but I find it frustrating that this site is so biased some times. I understand that this is your site and you value your opinions, but this website could become one of the top spots for credible news.

Sonny Moore says this site's credit is that of chimps... What's with everyone challenging your credibility there Tate? Shit.

[bigmike]

Hahahaha.. I banned him for 2 days, he is "IAMTheINsider" too though - according to our IP logs at least.

Sports forum tirade, what? LOL.
haha. oh man. what's the over/under on bannings during college basketball season?
I'm going with around 78.

[IamTheINDUSTRY]

I don't want it to be. It's funny how you are the champion against these "sellouts" known as Cartel, yet you are openly ask me to change MY believes and MY integrity to become something I actively campaign against.

Ironic much?I am not against Cartel. I enjoy Cartel. I undersatnd this site is basically your personal opinion, I just think with so many people turning to your site for information your wasting the potential of this website by being overly biased. You have the forums where people are supposed to be able to express their opinions, so why not put more focus on having converstions like this happen there. And only post actual news on the front page.

[bigmike]

Sonny Moore says this site's credit is that of chimps... What's with everyone challenging your credibility there Tate? Shit.
I'll start taking FFTL seriously when they start making music that is out of the playing range of chimps.

[Jason Tate]

Sonny Moore says this site's credit is that of chimps... What's with everyone challenging your credibility there Tate? Shit.
Hahahaha.. I was the first to tell people not to take us seriously. I don't like the responsibility that "credibility" brings. Just me though .. I'd rather do my thing and people can take from it what they will.

[chcougar1]

Hahahaha.. I banned him for 2 days, he is "IAMTheINsider" too though - according to our IP logs at least.

Sports forum tirade, what? LOL. Those were horrible. I'm not like that anymore ... well, untill next year's tourney maybe. ;)

Who makes two accounts? haha wow so he can make it look like people are supporting his idiotic babble? haha

[Jason Tate]

I am not against Cartel. I enjoy Cartel. I undersatnd this site is basically your personal opinion, I just think with so many people turning to your site for information your wasting the potential of this website by being overly biased. You have the forums where people are supposed to be able to express their opinions, so why not put more focus on having converstions like this happen there. And only post actual news on the front page.
What's not news now? I guess I'm confused. I post shit that's "not news" all the time ... who cares? It's fun? It's funny? It's enjoyable. Life's too short to take too seriously.

[Chris Fallon]

Sonny Moore says this site's credit is that of chimps... What's with everyone challenging your credibility there Tate? Shit.

And what Sonny says goes, right?

[chcougar1]

as entertaining as this has been I need some sleep...so I will come back tomorrow and read pages 6-30 of this thread...should be fun:)

[Jason Tate]

haha. oh man. what's the over/under on bannings during college basketball season?
I'm going with around 78.
Hahahaha.. I don't remember. :innocent:

[Chris Fallon]

Who makes two accounts? haha wow so he can make it look like people are supporting his idiotic babble? haha

That's what I was asking myself? What is this, the 6th grade, where you make two AIM screen names so you can pretend to have a convo going with someone when it's really yourself? Some people...

[bigmike]

That's what I was asking myself? What is this, the 6th grade, where you make two AIM screen names so you can pretend to have a convo going with someone when it's really yourself? Some people...
...someone got a confession they want to make about having conversations with themselves?

[Chris Fallon]

...someone got a confession they want to make about having conversations with themselves?

I'm doing it now; I just feel cooler doing it.

[Nolessthanblink]

I'll start taking FFTL seriously when they start making music that is out of the playing range of chimps.

:appl: By the way, I am in no way agreeing with Sonny... he's a dumbass for saying that shit. I'm just baffled as to why people who hate the way that Jason runs things so much around here take the time to check this site everyday and take even MORE time out of their precious lives to post on here and other places on the net about this website and the "horrible" way it's run...

[Jason Tate]

:appl: By the way, I am in no way agreeing with Sonny... he's a dumbass for saying that shit. I'm just baffled as to why people who hate the way that Jason runs things so much around here take the time to check this site everyday and take even MORE time out of their precious lives to post on here and other places on the net about this website and the "horrible" way it's run...
Haha, I dunno? No one hates or trashes on the unimportant and unsuccessful? O well, I brush it all off now - it doesn't even get to me.

[Chris Fallon]

:appl: By the way, I am in no way agreeing with Sonny... he's a dumbass for saying that shit. I'm just baffled as to why people who hate the way that Jason runs things so much around here take the time to check this site everyday and take even MORE time out of their precious lives to post on here and other places on the net about this website and the "horrible" way it's run...

I love this site and have no problems with how it's ran, organized, etc.

I just can't stand those fuckers who sit here and talk about how bad everything about this site is when they can just go bitch elsewhere. I enjoy posting random shit on here and reading others have fun - and those of us who frequently check in on posts know who is a brat and who likes to have a fun time. That's all I'm here for - because it is my source for music and entertainment.

[IamTheINDUSTRY]

What's not news now? I guess I'm confused. I post shit that's "not news" all the time ... who cares? It's fun? It's funny? It's enjoyable. Life's too short to take too seriously. I have my opinion and you have your's. But in the end this your website, and your opinion matters more. By the way, about the ip address, lanolyn and I both live in Murfreesboro, so if we share an ip address it's probably because we live in the same dorm, not because we are the same person. Unlike lanolyn I agree with most of the things that have been said here. I would just run this website differently if it were mine. But it's not so keep up the good work Tate.

[Nolessthanblink]

Haha, I dunno? No one hates or trashes on the unimportant and unsuccessful? O well, I brush it all off now - it doesn't even get to me.

Shake the haters off Jason... shake them haters off... and maybe get me someone that can give me an idea of set lists from the AVA and TBS tour that's going on right now? I'd be eternally greatful.

[bigmike]

Haha, I dunno? No one hates or trashes on the unimportant and unsuccessful? O well, I brush it all off now - it doesn't even get to me.
well, if you want to let it get to you, i'll take the site off your hands. I'm always down for getting paid to indulge in my insomnia.

[Nolessthanblink]

I have my opinion and you have your's. But in the end this your website, and your opinion matters more. By the way, about the ip address, lanolyn and I both live in Murfreesboro, so if we share an ip address it's probably because we live in the same dorm, not because we are the same person. Unlike lanolyn I agree with most of the things that have been said here. I would just run this website differently if it were mine. But it's not so keep up the good work Tate.

I smell bullshit... it's REALLY funny how that other guy is awake at 5 am and checking out this forum at the exact same time and how he ALSO decided to FINALLY comment as soon as his little buddy gets his account banned... very odd.

[Nolessthanblink]

I love this site and have no problems with how it's ran, organized, etc.

I just can't stand those fuckers who sit here and talk about how bad everything about this site is when they can just go bitch elsewhere. I enjoy posting random shit on here and reading others have fun - and those of us who frequently check in on posts know who is a brat and who likes to have a fun time. That's all I'm here for - because it is my source for music and entertainment.

It wasn't really directed at you... Sorry my friend. I was just kinda thinking aloud about how everyone always thinks that they can improve shit in their own way if they could only have control over it. I honestly don't know how this website could be much better... Unless of course there was more news about Hidden In Plain View :)

[Chris Fallon]

It wasn't really directed at you... Sorry my friend. I was just kinda thinking aloud about how everyone always thinks that they can improve shit in their own way if they could only have control over it. I honestly don't know how this website could be much better... Unless of course there was more news about Hidden In Plain View :)

it's all good. Just after a long day of reading bickering kids go on and on about how bad and unprofessional this site is after everything Jason has done to make it as well-run as possible, it's tiring. Ignorance gets really, really old after you read it a hundred times.

[Big_Guy]

Don't you have to go against your morals and beliefs to sell-out? The band's a pop band wanting to be a HUGE pop band. This was never hidden. They want to sell millions of albums; and to be honest, more power fucking to them. Being honest isn't selling out IMO.
ok, that's not selling out, but that sounds pretty fucking gay. They actually said they want to sell a million albums? I hope they fall flat on their faces

[Big_Guy]

Haha, I dunno? No one hates or trashes on the unimportant and unsuccessful? O well, I brush it all off now - it doesn't even get to me.
WOW, just WOW

[JohnnyG]

Any publicity is good publicity.

And at least those 7-year olds are rocking out to a good band.

Agreed

[mma]

their album is amazing and they make wonderful music. that's all i care about, really.

[girlsroxboys]

The only aspect of a band's career that matters is the music. Who cares where they play or who likes them? If there is quality and creativity in what they write, then more power to them. Too bad this doesn't apply to Cartel haha. Why am I posting on this thread? ahhhh

[xowearmeout]

Playing their song on a national tv show?

haha.

[iheartmariokart]

yo peeps. just wanted to drop a line to all you who are concerned or worried about our newfound love from radio and mtv.

we are not sellouts....we have always wanted this. let me explain.

when we started playing in bands in high school the big new thing was new found glory....in fact, they were my first "show" ever. (if you don't know the difference between a "show" and a "concert" they i don't direct any of this to you) they played in a small club about 50 people deep and it was awesome. so much fun. next time i say them 6 months later was to about 300. after that it was mtv, radio, amphitheatres with blink 182. i was so stoked for them. mainly because i knew that they were making it and would continue to make records for a while to come. it thrilled me to know that one of my favorite bands was now adored by a lot of people and i got to see them with about 50 other people in some small club in Atlanta. i was proud of them for that reason. i felt like i had something to do with their success. too cool right?

i feel that anyone who doesn't like our oncoming success is wrongly allocating their distaste with the situation. i thought that certain people were dumb when they'd say to others that they had seen nfg before someone else. i laughed inside because i knew that i saw them at their first show in atlanta worth a grain of salt. and i'm sure that a ton of people had seen them before me. i think when i hear comments like "now all the little 12 year old girls are gonna come and ruin the concerts...mehhh....why did you have to go all mainstream....mtv and cartel don't mix".....i have to address a couple things. one being that if you don't think that we are mainstream or that we don't mix with mtv i strongly urge you to listen to the record and analyze the popness that is honestly or say anything else or runaway or if i fail....all extremely poppy. in a good way of course....it's not a boy band or anything....close....but not. i think we should welcome new fans into the fold. not all of us were cool 12 year olds....me especially. i was a complete ass at 12 but i didnt turn out so bad. yes, the shows will get bigger and there will be those parasites that jump from favorite band to the next....i assure you it will happen. but the thing to do is to relish in the fact that you...yes you....are part of the reason why we are able to continue to write music and succeed. new people are only gonna get to hear it because you cared when no one else did. we will never forget that....i swear to you.

major labels have their own special way of making people not like them....mostly because they want to get you to pay for stuff unlike indies. i know its not the most fan friendly venture into your pocketbooks or wallets (i don't discriminate) but trust me when i say that our band has never been in a better position than it is right now and that is solely due to the fact that a label with clout and love of our music has laid down the gauntlet for us. we've built what we have and it will continue to run the same way...hustlin' but we will have help now and the masses will become involved. we love you and we will never forget all of you here right now who have made all of this possible for us. our dreams came true....now we want to give some of that back to you...(we have to keep just a little for ourselves) ; ) but yeh, chin up....we'll always be friends and you'll always be able to say that you heard of us first. we thank you for that. you'll see that we are all about fun and enjoyment and making a big joke out of everything b/c this whole music thing really is a big joke....a joke we take seriously but if you could see some of the stuff we've seen (which in time you will) you'd understand what i mean. our videos will be funny. our photos will be funny....and most of all....we'll be funny. laughs all around. on the house.

we love you. and thank you for caring. we'd be concerned if you didn't.

smiles

Will

Straight from the horses mouth. The kids a smart one. I bolded more and longer parts then Jason, hopefully that'll get your attention. Fuck, I'm 15 and i read that. I think you can all do that.

OK. I AM 15. I have not been a fan of Cartel since the very beggining lolzz. I learned about them cause a friend of mine was wearing their tshirt. Honestly i don't like pop. It's catchy, fun music. SO I LISTENED. I've never been to one of their shows, and i never really plan to go out of my way to(even though all the recording i've seen his voice is amazing). I just enjoy the music. is that any different than any of the 12 year olds seeing them on cartoon network? If it is please explain it to me thanks :)

[dontgrabtindy]

i got banned for 2 days due to college basketball :(

[i2ockbotm]

I wish Cartel played a concert for me when I was seven. Would have been the best day of my young life.

[1000shadesofred]

Wow, this band is selling out hard.

now that theyre on island what do u expect, expect more of this stupid shit to come

[xowearmeout]

There isn't a "everyone now listens to us" fairy.

best line i've ever read on this website. hahaha.

[xowearmeout]

Straight from the horses mouth. The kids a smart one. I bolded more and longer parts then Jason, hopefully that'll get your attention. Fuck, I'm 15 and i read that. I think you can all do that.

OK. I AM 15. I have not been a fan of Cartel since the very beggining lolzz. I learned about them cause a friend of mine was wearing their tshirt. Honestly i don't like pop. It's catchy, fun music. SO I LISTENED. I've never been to one of their shows, and i never really plan to go out of my way to(even though all the recording i've seen his voice is amazing). I just enjoy the music. is that any different than any of the 12 year olds seeing them on cartoon network? If it is please explain it to me thanks :)

agreed. completely.

[robdobi]

i read one page of this and giggled.

guys, this is cartel we are talking about, these songs couldn't be laced with any more sugary bubblegum hooks if they tried.

you are an idiot if you think this isn't anything more than straight up pop rock.

make some money while you are young guys, better than playing for elitist 15 year olds who would rather wish you play VFW halls for the rest of your life.

[siimpx]

i guess i won't be seeing them in bars anymore. does anyone know when this comes on again?

[KB3RG]

Props to Cartel. If they want to earn money (which) everyone does because our society is not a folk style where we play just for the love. We are a commercial culture and do things to make money. Sure you can still have a love for the music. Example: TEN. If some band wants to "sellout" to make money, by all means and do so. Its better than flipping burgers at some fast food place. Plus you do not have to listen to someone if you do not choose to.

[Loch_Doun]

i don't consider a single band mentioned in the the above statement a sell out. and that is probably because none of those bands edited their songs for a crowd full of 7 year olds. have the flaming lips or rem ever been on cartoon network? somehow i doubt it. there is a difference between becoming popular based purely on your music as the examples stated above and playing to a crowd of children who have no idea what the fuck your song is even about. if cartel wnats to be the most popular band amongst 7-10 year olds then more power to them. i just thought they were different than simple plan and good charolette. if one more good band does this shit i am just gonna snap.
umm... REM played on Seseme Street for your information... yeah

[*crying stars*]

good for the 7-year-olds. they probably had a good time. =)

You're right, you don't. How is playing a song to fit into the time slot "selling out"? Here, I'll let someone much smarter and better with words explain it for you. Everyone is required to read this before ever muttering the words "sell out" on this website again.

You actually asked me the question: "Are you taking any steps to keep shit real?" I want you always to look back on this time as being a time when those words came out of your mouth.
Now, there was a time when such a question - albeit probably without the colloquial spin - would have originated from my own brain. Since I was thirteen, sitting in my orange-carpeted bedroom in ostensibly cutting-edge Lake Forest, Illinois, subscribing to the Village Voice and reading the earliest issues of Spin, I thought I had my ear to the railroad tracks of avant garde America. (Laurie Anderson, for example, had grown up only miles away!) I was always monitoring, with the most sensitive and well-calibrated apparatus, the degree of selloutitude exemplified by any given artist - musical, visual, theatrical, whatever. I was vigilant and merciless and knew it was my job to be so.
I bought R.E.M.'s first EP, Chronic Town, when it came out and thought I had found God. I loved Murmur, Reckoning, but then watched, with greater and greater dismay, as this obscure little band's audience grew, grew beyond obsessed people like myself, grew to encompass casual fans, people who had heard a song on the radio and picked up Green and listened for the hits. Old people liked them, and stupid people, and my moron neighbor who had sex with truck drivers. I wanted these phony R.E.M.-lovers dead.
But it was the band's fault, too. They played on Letterman. They switched record labels. Even their album covers seemed progressively more commercial. And when everyone I knew began liking them, I stopped. Had they changed, had their commitment to making art with integrity changed? I didn't care, because for me, any sort of popularity had an inverse relationship with what you term the keeping 'real' of 'shit.' When the Smiths became slightly popular they were sellouts. Bob Dylan appeared on MTV and of course was a sellout. Recently, just at dinner tonight, after a huge, sold-out reading by David Sedaris and Sarah Vowell (both sellouts), I was sitting next to an acquaintance, a very smart acquaintance married to the singer-songwriter of a very well-known band. I mentioned that I had seen the Flaming Lips the night before. She rolled her eyes. "Oh I really liked them on 90210," she sneered, assuming that this would put me and the band in our respective places.
However.
Was she aware that The Flaming Lips had composed an album requiring the simultaneous playing of four separate discs, on four separate CD players? Was she aware that the band had once, for a show at Lincoln Center, handed out to audience members something like 100 portable tape players, with 100 different tapes, and had them all played at the same time, creating a symphonic sort of effect, one which completely devastated everyone in attendance? I went on and on to her about the band's accomplishments, their experiments. Was she convinced that they were more than their one appearance with Jason Priestly? She was.
Now, at that concert the night before, Wayne Coyne, the lead singer, had himself addressed this issue, and to great effect. After playing much of their new album, the band paused and he spoke to the audience. I will paraphrase what he said:
"Hi. Well, some people get all bitter when some song of theirs gets popular, and they refuse to play it. But we're not like that. We're happy that people like this song. So here it goes."
Then they played the song. (You know the song.) "She Don't Use Jelly" is the song, and it is a silly song, and it was their most popular song. But to highlight their enthusiasm for playing the song, the band released, from the stage and from the balconies, about 200 balloons. (Some of the balloons, it should be noted, were released by two grown men in bunny suits.) Then while playing the song, Wayne sang with a puppet on his hand, who also sang into the microphone. It was fun. It was good.
But was it a sellout? Probably. By some standards, yes. Can a good band play their hit song? Should we hate them for this? Probably, probably. First 90210, now they go playing the song every stupid night. Everyone knows that 90210 is not cutting edge, and that a cutting edge alternarock band should not appear on such a show. That rule is clearly stated in the obligatory engrained computer-chip sellout manual that we were all given when we hit adolescence.
But this sellout manual serves only the lazy and small. Those who bestow sellouthood upon their former heroes are driven to do so by, first and foremost, the unshakable need to reduce. The average one of us - a taker-in of various and constant media, is absolutely overwhelmed - as he or she should be - with the sheer volume of artistic output in every conceivable medium given to the world every day - it is simply too much to begin to process or comprehend - and so we are forced to try to sort, to reduce. We designate, we label, we diminish, we create hierarchies and categories.
Through largely received wisdom, we rule out Tom Waits's new album because it's the same old same old, and we save $15. U2 has lost it, Radiohead is too popular. Country music is bad, Puff Daddy is bad, the last Wallace book was bad because that one reviewer said so. We decide that TV is bad unless it's the Sopranos. We liked Rick Moody and Jonathan Lethem and Jeffrey Eugenides until they allowed their books to become movies. And on and on. The point is that we do this and to a certain extent we must do this. We must create categories, and to an extent, hierarchies.
But you know what is easiest of all? When we dismiss.
Oh how gloriously comforting, to be able to write someone off. Thus, in the overcrowded pantheon of alternarock bands, at a certain juncture, it became necessary for a certain brand of person to write off The Flaming Lips, despite the fact that everyone knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that their music was superb and groundbreaking and real. We could write them off because they shared a few minutes with Jason Priestley and that terrifying Tori Spelling person. Or we could write them off because too many magazines have talked about them. Or because it looked like the bassist was wearing too much gel in his hair.
One less thing to think about. Now, how to kill off the rest of our heroes, to better make room for new ones?
We liked Guided by Voices until they let Ric Ocasek produce their latest album, and everyone knows Ocasek is a sellout, having written those mushy Cars songs in the late 80s, and then - gasp! - produced Weezer's album, and of course Weezer's no good, because that Sweater song was on the radio, right, and dorky teenage girls were singing it and we cannot have that and so Weezer is bad and Ocasek is bad and Guided by Voices are bad, even if Spike Jonze did direct that one Weezer video, and we like Spike Jonze, don't we?
Oh. No. We don't. We don't like him anymore because he's married to Sofia Coppola, and she is not cool. Not cool. So bad in Godfather 3, such nepotism. So let's check off Spike Jonze - leaving room in our brains for… who??
It's exhausting.
The only thing worse than this sort of activity is when people, students and teachers alike, run around college campuses calling each other racists and anti-Semites. It's born of boredom, lassitude. Too cowardly to address problems of substance where such problems actually are, we claw at those close to us. We point to our neighbor, in the khakis and sweater, and cry foul. It's ridiculous. We find enemies among our peers because we know them better, and their proximity and familiarity means we don't have to get off the couch to dismantle them.
And now, I am also a sellout. Here are my sins, many of which you may know about already:
First, I was a sellout because Might magazine took ads.
Then I was a sellout because our pages were color, and not stapled together at the Kinko's.
Then I was a sellout because I went to work for Esquire.
Now I'm a sellout because my book has sold many copies.
And because I have done many interviews.
And because I have let people take my picture.
And because my goddamn picture has been in just about every fucking magazine and newspaper printed in America.
And now, as far as McSweeney's is concerned, The Advocate interviewer wants to know if we're losing also our edge, if the magazine is selling out, hitting the mainstream, if we're still committed to publishing unknowns, and pieces killed by other magazines.
And the fact is, I don't give a fuck. When we did the last issue, this was my thought process: I saw a box. So I decided we'd do a box. We were given stories by some of our favorite writers - George Saunders, Rick Moody (who is uncool, uncool!), Haruki Murakami, Lydia Davis, others - and so we published them. Did I wonder if people would think we were selling out, that we were not fulfilling the mission they had assumed we had committed ourselves to?
No. I did not. Nor will I ever. We just don't care. We care about doing what we want to do creatively. We want to be interested in it. We want it to challenge us. We want it to be difficult. We want to reinvent the stupid thing every time. Would I ever think, before I did something, of how those with sellout monitors would respond to this or that move? I would not. The second I sense a thought like that trickling into my brain, I will put my head under the tires of a bus.
You want to know how big a sellout I am?
A few months ago I wrote an article for Time magazine and was paid $12,000 for it I am about to write something, 1,000 words, 3 pages or so, for something called Forbes ASAP, and for that I will be paid $6,000 For two years, until five months ago, I was on the payroll of ESPN magazine, as a consultant and sometime contributor. I was paid handsomely for doing very little. Same with my stint at Esquire. One year I spent there, with little to no duties. I wore khakis every day. Another Might editor and I, for almost a year, contributed to Details magazine, under pseudonyms, and were paid $2000 each for what never amounted to more than 10 minutes work - honestly never more than that. People from Hollywood want to make my book into a movie, and I am probably going to let them do so, and they will likely pay me a great deal of money for the privilege.
Do I care about this money? I do. Will I keep this money? Very little of it. Within the year I will have given away almost a million dollars to about 100 charities and individuals, benefiting everything from hospice care to an artist who makes sculptures from Burger King bags. And the rest will be going into publishing books through McSweeney's. Would I have been able to publish McSweeney's if I had not worked at Esquire? Probably not. Where is the $6000 from Forbes going? To a guy named Joe Polevy, who wants to write a book about the effects of radiator noise on children in New England.
Now, what if I were keeping all the money? What if I were buying property in St. Kitt's or blew it all on live-in prostitutes? What if, for example, I was, a few nights ago, sitting at a table in SoHo with a bunch of Hollywood slash celebrity acquaintances, one of whom I went to high school with, and one of whom was Puff Daddy? Would that make me a sellout? Would that mean I was a force of evil?
What if a few nights before that I was at the home of Julian Schnabel, at a party featuring Al Pacino and Robert DeNiro, and at which Schnabel said we should get together to talk about him possibly directing my movie? And what if I said sure, let's?
Would all that make me a sellout? Would I be uncool? Would it have been more cool to not go to this party, or to not have written that book, or done that interview, or to have refused millions from Hollywood?
The thing is, I really like saying yes. I like new things, projects, plans, getting people together and doing something, trying something, even when it's corny or stupid. I am not good at saying no. And I do not get along with people who say no. When you die, and it really could be this afternoon, under the same bus wheels I'll stick my head if need be, you will not be happy about having said no. You will be kicking your ass about all the no's you've said. No to that opportunity, or no to that trip to Nova Scotia or no to that night out, or no to that project or no to that person who wants to be naked with you but you worry about what your friends will say.
No is for wimps. No is for pussies. No is to live small and embittered, cherishing the opportunities you missed because they might have sent the wrong message.
There is a point in one's life when one cares about selling out and not selling out. One worries whether or not wearing a certain shirt means that they are behind the curve or ahead of it, or that having certain music in one's collection means that they are impressive, or unimpressive.
Thankfully, for some, this all passes. I am here to tell you that I have, a few years ago, found my way out of that thicket of comparison and relentless suspicion and judgment. And it is a nice feeling. Because, in the end, no one will ever give a shit who has kept shit 'real' except the two or three people, sitting in their apartments, bitter and self-devouring, who take it upon themselves to wonder about such things. The keeping real of shit matters to some people, but it does not matter to me. It's fashion, and I don't like fashion, because fashion does not matter.
What matters is that you do good work. What matters is that you produce things that are true and will stand. What matters is that the Flaming Lips's new album is ravishing and I've listened to it a thousand times already, sometimes for days on end, and it enriches me and makes me want to save people. What matters is that it will stand forever, long after any narrow-hearted curmudgeons have forgotten their appearance on goddamn 90210. What matters is not the perception, nor the fashion, not who's up and who's down, but what someone has done and if they meant it. What matters is that you want to see and make and do, on as grand a scale as you want, regardless of what the tiny voices of tiny people say. Do not be critics, you people, I beg you. I was a critic and I wish I could take it all back because it came from a smelly and ignorant place in me, and spoke with a voice that was all rage and envy. Do not dismiss a book until you have written one, and do not dismiss a movie until you have made one, and do not dismiss a person until you have met them. It is a fuckload of work to be open-minded and generous and understanding and forgiving and accepting, but Christ, that is what matters. What matters is saying yes.
I say yes, and Wayne Coyne says yes, and if that makes us the enemy, then good, good, good. We are evil people because we want to live and do things. We are on the wrong side because we should be home, calculating which move would be the least damaging to our downtown reputations. But I say yes because I am curious. I want to see things. I say yes when my high school friend tells me to come out because he's hanging with Puffy. A real story, that. I say yes when Hollywood says they'll give me enough money to publish a hundred different books, or send twenty kids through college. Saying no is so fucking boring. And if anyone wants to hurt me for that, or dismiss me for that, for saying yes, I say Oh do it, do it you motherfuckers, finally, finally, finally.

That gasp of air coming out of your mouth right now is the sound of you choking on the words you can no longer speak. "Owned" is the term most people use - I'll just sit back and hope your mind has been significantly blown.

Wow. That's all you can say after reading that.

[irishpunk14]

Not surprising,yet still lame.

[Nolessthanblink]

now that theyre on island what do u expect, expect more of this stupid shit to come

Um, aren't they on Epic? And here YOU are talking about "stupid shit"... You're not cool enough to refer to yourself in 3rd person, so just stop it.

[_kelly]

i read that whole essay you posted jason and know that this wasnt the point at all but "and that terrifying Tori Spelling person" might have been one of the best lines.

[Melie]

how did i miss this show? i would have rocked out right along those 7 year olds. screw selling out, enjoy the music.

[chuckmagnum]

Please don't mind what I'm trying to say cause I'm, I'm being honest
When I tell you that you
You're part of the reason I'm so set on the rest of my life
Being a part of you
You tell me what you think about being open,
About being honest with yourself

Cause things will never be the same.

So I guess I'll see you, see you around
I'm spinning while falling down
Now you know why I'm begging you to stay

Well don't waste time getting to the point, cause I'm, I'm patiently waiting
For your next phone call, your next excuse for losing sleep again
Tell me what you think about being open,
About being honest with yourself

Cause things will never be the same

So I guess I'll see you, see you around
I'm spinning while falling down
Now you know why I'm begging you to stay

Cause I can't stop it now
It's so amazing how
I know I cant, I could never walk away

How can we resolve this now
We let it go, and wonder how
This can ever be the same
Can never be the same

So I guess I'll see you, see you around
I'm spinning while I'm falling down
Now you know why I'm begging you, I'm begging!

Cause I can't stop it now,
It's so amazing how,
I know I cant, I could never walk away.

Please don't mind what I'm trying to say, cause I'm, I'm being honest.

[bobby runs]

ok so i spent like 20 minutes reading this whole thread just to see what was up with the bitching i have a few points to make.

1) i never thought of cartel as selling out. when i saw that they were featured on mtv's website i was just like damn, i didnt get to see them in an intimate setting. i dont care that people only like them because of honestly or anything like that. to me that is one of their best songs that could pull someone into the band. my friend told me to download their cd from itunes back in october when i got a $15 thing to the itunes store. and i asked him what were the best songs. he told me "honestly", burn this city" and "the minstrels prayer". i listened to those first and then told him: "ok lets take a bet on when cartel is gonna be on mtv" after i heard honestly i knew they were going to be the next big thing from the indie labels to make it to mtv. i mean if you seriously thought you could keep cartel as your little band then you are really effing stupid. cartel released the ransom ep as more of a "pop-punk" band and on chroma they released a cd that was made by a pretty damn good "pop-rock" band. now they might not be the best pop-rock band ever but they are better than anything that is being played on the radio. now i just need to them on vh1 and that will solidfy the fact that cartel is a popular band and a lot of people are listening to them.

2) when i was 7 i was into backstreet boys and pretty much anything that was really poppy and pretty much targeted at my age group. and you know what i never "got" any of those songs when i was that age. i just started listening to those records a few months ago and realized that some "emo" bands pretty much write about the same things as the songwriters for these boy bands. and hot dam would i have loved to see someone that i liked a lot with a good song when i was 7.

3) you know what who gives a shit if fftl is going to mt to cry. i dont care if what here is true or not and i just want to see some funny stuff posted. and i never really believed this site when they said fftl were being primadonas. i believed what kevin lyman said. if what was posted here was true he would have said fftl got kicked off because of undisclosed reasons. so yeah who cares about that crappy band.

[Jason Tate]

i read that whole essay you posted jason and know that this wasnt the point at all but "and that terrifying Tori Spelling person" might have been one of the best lines.
I do what I can.

[The Coalition]

At least that crowd full of 7 year olds was way more into the show than all the people who "get what the song is about" and sit there with there arms crossed at a rock show. Im encouraging more 7 year olds at shows.

And yes, of course I watched it... on my DVR.

[mffjake]

this is all bullshit.
cartel had an oppurtunity to perform on NATIONAL television, something that any pop band out there would never pass up if they take what they're doing seriously. that's not selling out.
both times that i've had the honor of sharing a stage with the amazing guys from cartel, they have demonstrated as much of a passion and love for the music as i've seen from any other band. they got a chance to do something huge.
good for them.
stop bashing them.

[iheartmariokart]

Really, no one understands what they listen to at that age. The Spice Girls had some songs that i'd think are totally innapropriate for the 7-12 crowd, but they ate it up. It's pop music, deal with it.

[Chris Fallon]

now that theyre on island what do u expect, expect more of this stupid shit to come

They aren't on Island - they're on Epic.

[Chris Fallon]

umm... REM played on Seseme Street for your information... yeah

Good point. AND also, REM changed the lyrics to the song for the show, something Cartel did not do.

[Keyser_Soze]

Does anyone have the clip? Link?

[thisisrightnow]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see what the big fucking deal with Cartel being on Cartoon Network is. They're an amazing band and their talent needs to be shown to others, regardless of age.

[The Revisionist]

When will GWAR be on the Cartoon Network?

[jeffinmotion]

i didn't take the time to read this entire thread, because it's a lot of arguing over something that i'm not sure the two sides of the fence will ever come to see eye to eye on. However i do feel that now more than ever people are realizing how bullshit a term "selling out" has come to be.

People. Cartel hasn't changed. They are the same band, they are making the same music, they're doing what they want to do.

back when Green Day got huge I got called a sellout for liking them. But they never did anything to sell out either (while i don't completely agree with the makeup, i'll let it go, their music still rules) <--- to be taken as a joke


but seriously folks. selling out is what bands like the goo goo dolls and staind did (both of those bands used to own). you get huge success out of a sleeper single that you almost didn't even put on the record because they're not your style (ahem, "name" from a boy named goo, "been a while" from who the fuck knows/cares) and then you realize the song completely redefines your bands style and demographic and, instead of being true to your style, you run with it. if cartel writes a "name" or a "it's been a while" then realize that is the shit they will make more money writing and decide to write an entire record in this new vein, then they can be called sellouts.

the progression from the ransom ep to chroma was natural. they are still doing what cartel's always done, and that's making sugary pop rock music and doing a damn good job of it. more power to them for finding a UNIQUE AND NEW WAY to promote themselves! I haven't seen something that innovative since that band Gray Star did the Jimmy Neutron show. It's smart man. Kids love music, and they're getting sick of the lame singalongs of generations past... besides, if I met a 7 year old bumping chroma i'd think it was the coolest thing ever. And now i bet there's a whole bunch of them. how is that not the awesomest thing ever????

[N8IVIin0rity]

their album is amazing and they make wonderful music. that's all i care about, really.
w3rd. cartel fucking pwnz.