Bible Codes on U.S. Weapons in Iraq/Afghanistan [Archive]

ruffian

01/19/10, 07:24 AM

Thought there may be a thread but...

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-military-weapons-inscribed-secret-jesus-bible-codes/story?id=9575794

Coded references to New Testament Bible passages about Jesus Christ are inscribed on high-powered rifle sights provided to the United States military by a Michigan company, an ABC News investigation has found.

The sights are used by U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and in the training of Iraqi and Afghan soldiers. The maker of the sights, Trijicon, has a $660 million multi-year contract to provide up to 800,000 sights to the Marine Corps, and additional contracts to provide sights to the U.S. Army.

U.S. military rules specifically prohibit the proselytizing of any religion in Iraq or Afghanistan and were drawn up in order to prevent criticism that the U.S. was embarked on a religious "Crusade" in its war against al Qaeda and Iraqi insurgents.

lol basically. the best part is the marine corp says it was completely oblivious to the whole thing.

JordanBuell

01/19/10, 08:02 AM

why would that company want to put a bible verse on a gun that is going to be used to kill people? doesnt make any sense

zachff

01/19/10, 08:07 AM

Saw this somewhere this morning. It's pretty ridiculous. I'd be pretty upset as a non-Christian if I was deployed using this hardware. However, my guess is that most soldiers aren't really thinking about this if the weapon is saving their life.

caveBEAR

01/19/10, 08:49 AM

I'm sure the company didn't mean any harm by it (check the bottom of your cup at In 'N' Out and some other restaurants, they print verses in the bottom lips of their cups) and just was doing what religious people do, and probably thought they were 'protecting' the soldiers, but as noted in the article, you want NOTHING available for critics to use as evidence for a 'crusade'.

bard

01/19/10, 09:34 AM

yeah, a lot of companies do this. was going to mention in-n-out.

the women's store Forever 21 prints 'John 3:16' in pretty big letters on every bag.

RX XR

01/19/10, 09:39 AM

Not a big deal..

Smeee

01/19/10, 10:17 AM

I don't know what to make of this... I'm a Christian and I find this a little messed up really. And unnecessary.

oldwirehands

01/19/10, 10:25 AM

Badass.

Simulcast

01/19/10, 10:26 AM

Badass.

qft.

MyNameIsRoss

01/19/10, 10:49 AM

unfortunately, as i understand, there is a sizable portion of born again-'christian-soldiers' in our military.

rawesome

01/19/10, 10:50 AM

Why would anyone do this to begin with?

Simulcast

01/19/10, 11:53 AM

unfortunately, as i understand, there is a sizable portion of born again-'christian-soldiers' in our military.

Why, exactly, is this unfortunate?

MyNameIsRoss

01/19/10, 11:59 AM

Why, exactly, is this unfortunate?

because the US is not a theocracy, this isn't the crusades. could give the people we're fighting, who happen to be muslim-fundamentalists, the wrong idea, that this is some sort of holy war. are you that thick?

Healthy Scratch

01/19/10, 12:32 PM

because the US is not a theocracy, this isn't the crusades. could give the people we're fighting, who happen to be muslim-fundamentalists, the wrong idea, that this is some sort of holy war. are you that thick?
are you that thick? the muslim-fundamentalists already think this is a holy war. and simply having christians in the military does not make the military a christian entity.

MyNameIsRoss

01/19/10, 12:35 PM

are you that thick? the muslim-fundamentalists already think this is a holy war. and simply having christians in the military does not make the military a christian entity.

wasn't referring to 'christians in the military', was referring to soldiers in our military who believe they are in a holy war. they exist. research.

Healthy Scratch

01/19/10, 12:46 PM

wasn't referring to 'christians in the military', was referring to soldiers in our military who believe they are in a holy war. they exist. research.
please enlighten me as to this "sizable portion" of holy land crusaders.

Simulcast

01/19/10, 12:59 PM

because the US is not a theocracy, this isn't the crusades. could give the people we're fighting, who happen to be muslim-fundamentalists, the wrong idea, that this is some sort of holy war. are you that thick?

Show me this sizable portion. I'm pretty sure that 100% of the Muslim "fundamentalists" believe this to be a holy war, so there's no wrong idea to give.

Simulcast

01/19/10, 01:05 PM

I wish we had more "Christian soldiers" like this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_C._York). The terrorists would have given up by now.

MyNameIsRoss

01/19/10, 01:29 PM

Scahill (the blackwater journalist) has written about this shit: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeremy-scahill/us-soldiers-in-afghanista_b_195639.html

Simulcast

01/19/10, 01:39 PM

Scahill (the blackwater journalist) has written about this shit: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeremy-scahill/us-soldiers-in-afghanista_b_195639.html

Wow, you are an idiot. Evangelism is completely different from what the crusaders did a thousand years ago. In the middle ages crusaders believed that killing unbelievers was actually an act of compassion (as hard as that is to believe) because living in a world apart from God was unthinkably horrific to them. This has nothing to do with your twisted view of a Christian "holy war" and does not represent a "sizable" amount of U.S. forces.

MyNameIsRoss

01/19/10, 01:48 PM

hahaha okay...the harmless reference i made to the crusades was in no way a comparison. just like calling someone a nazi doesn't mean you're calling them a national socialist. evangelist christian leadership in our military is a problem. give no fuck if you can't see that.

i'm done. stop quoting me.

Simulcast

01/19/10, 01:53 PM

wasn't referring to 'christians in the military', was referring to soldiers in our military who believe they are in a holy war. they exist. research.

/=

hahaha okay...the harmless reference i made to the crusades was in no way a comparison. just like calling someone a nazi doesn't mean you're calling them a national socialist. evangelist christian leadership in our military is a problem. give no fuck if you can't see that.

i'm done. stop quoting me.

You need to get your ducks in a row pal.

SunnyInPhilly

01/19/10, 02:03 PM

unfortunately, as i understand, there is a sizable portion of born again-'christian-soldiers' in our military.

wasn't referring to 'christians in the military', was referring to soldiers in our military who believe they are in a holy war. they exist. research.

Care to try again?

GeeBee

01/19/10, 02:04 PM

Wow, you are an idiot. Evangelism is completely different from what the crusaders did a thousand years ago. In the middle ages crusaders believed that killing unbelievers was actually an act of compassion (as hard as that is to believe) because living in a world apart from God was unthinkably horrific to them. This has nothing to do with your twisted view of a Christian "holy war" and does not represent a "sizable" amount of U.S. forces.

/=

You need to get your ducks in a row pal.

Fuck your ducks:

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/07/08/the-us-christian-military/

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/05/0082488

http://www.alternet.org/politics/140221/bush%27s_shocking_biblical_prophecy _emerges:_god_wants_to_%22%3Berase% 22%3B_mid-east_enemies_%22%3Bbefore_a_new_age _begins%22%3B/

http://islam-west.com/2009/08/blackwater-iraq-christian-crusaders-killing-christ.html

Do some reading before you bash people smarter than you.

cory-182

01/19/10, 02:05 PM

Badass.

Ditto.

GeeBee

01/19/10, 02:05 PM

Care to try again?

Care to catch a reference?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onward,_Christian_Soldiers

Jesus you people are daft.

MyNameIsRoss

01/19/10, 02:11 PM

Ben09

01/19/10, 02:12 PM

As a Christian, I don't give a fuck. They could've put "I love Satan" on them as long as they're killing the other guy.

Simulcast

01/19/10, 02:13 PM

Fuck your ducks:

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/07/08/the-us-christian-military/

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/05/0082488

http://www.alternet.org/politics/140221/bush%27s_shocking_biblical_prophecy _emerges:_god_wants_to_%22%3Berase% 22%3B_mid-east_enemies_%22%3Bbefore_a_new_age _begins%22%3B/

http://islam-west.com/2009/08/blackwater-iraq-christian-crusaders-killing-christ.html

Do some reading before you bash people smarter than you.

I have many friends and a brother who have served in the military in various branches. The overarching conspiracies that your articles allege have not affected or made themselves present those I know who do not believe in God, or who are very timid in their faith (in the case of my brother), or even those with a strong belief in Christianity. I have never heard any of them claim that the leadership advocated a holy war of any kind. Again, I don't see any concrete evidence, beyond the traditional role that Christianity has played in the American military, for some sort of holy war advocated by the American Military. Your articles prove nothing to this effect.

MyNameIsRoss

01/19/10, 02:15 PM

Care to try again?

one of those says 'christian-soldiers' and one says 'christians in the military'...not.the.same.

care to try again, fuckhead?

SunnyInPhilly

01/19/10, 02:17 PM

Care to catch a reference?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onward,_Christian_Soldiers

Jesus you people are daft.

That's great. Show me where he said anything about that in the first quoted post. Otherwise, you're a fucking idiot.

SunnyInPhilly

01/19/10, 02:18 PM

one of those says 'christian-soldiers' and one says 'christians in the military'...not.the.same.

care to try again, fuckhead?

Sure. As soon as you explain the difference. I was under the impression that soldiers were in the military.

GeeBee

01/19/10, 02:21 PM

As a Christian, I don't give a fuck. They could've put "I love Satan" on them as long as they're killing the other guy.
Wow. Point entirely missed.
I have many friends and a brother who have served in the military in various branches. The overarching conspiracies that your articles allege have not affected or made themselves present those I know who do not believe in God, or who are very timid in their faith (in the case of my brother), or even those with a strong belief in Christianity. I have never heard any of them claim that the leadership advocated a holy war of any kind. Again, I don't see any concrete evidence, beyond the traditional role that Christianity has played in the American military, for some sort of holy war advocated by the American Military. Your articles prove nothing to this effect.
So, since your personal experience doesn't match with the widely reported-on movement of christian evangelism within the armed forces, it's all conspiracy theories?
Awesome logic there gumshoe.
That's great. Show me where he said anything about that in the first quoted post. Otherwise, you're a fucking idiot.

he fucking said, in quotations "CHRISTIAN-SOLDIERS", an obvious reference to the song I just fucking cited, "ONWARD, CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS", you fucking moron. Anyone with half a brain would've caught the cultural reference, but you apparently don't make the cut.

<*)))><

01/19/10, 02:23 PM

wasn't referring to 'christians in the military', was referring to soldiers in our military who believe they are in a holy war. they exist. research.
I also read that one soldiers believed he was fighting aliens.

MyNameIsRoss

01/19/10, 02:27 PM

Sure. As soon as you explain the difference. I was under the impression that soldiers were in the military.

i was referencing CHRISTIAN-SOLDIERS. not soldiers who happen to be christians. read things.

Simulcast

01/19/10, 02:27 PM

So, since your personal experience doesn't match with the widely reported-on movement of christian evangelism within the armed forces, it's all conspiracy theories?
Awesome logic there gumshoe.

Widely? These are all isolated incidences involving individuals. Religious discrimination is forbidden by the Army. When the drill sergeants at boot camp start indoctrinating recruits (they don't) and religious services of every faith other than Christianity are no longer present on base, then you might have an argument.

MyNameIsRoss

01/19/10, 02:27 PM

I also read that one soldiers believed he was fighting aliens.

just.stop.

SunnyInPhilly

01/19/10, 02:29 PM

he fucking said, in quotations "CHRISTIAN-SOLDIERS", an obvious reference to the song I just fucking cited, "ONWARD, CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS", you fucking moron. Anyone with half a brain would've caught the cultural reference, but you apparently don't make the cut.

Oh right. From "Christian soldiers", I wasn't supposed to assume that he meant soldiers that are Christian. I was supposed to assume that he was referring to your idiotic Wikipedia article about a fucking hymn. Any logical person would make that reference. You win.

MyNameIsRoss

01/19/10, 02:29 PM

GeeBee

01/19/10, 02:33 PM

Oh right. From "Christian soldiers", I wasn't supposed to assume that he meant soldiers that are Christian. I was supposed to assume that he was referring to your idiotic Wikipedia article about a fucking hymn. Any logical person would make that reference. You win.

Since I gathered exactly that from his term in quotations, I guess that makes me logical. Glad I win.

The wikipedia article was a reference to help you wrap your mind around the concept of a rhetorical reference, you simple prick.

GeeBee

01/19/10, 02:36 PM

Widely? These are all isolated incidences involving individuals. Religious discrimination is forbidden by the Army. When the drill sergeants at boot camp start indoctrinating recruits (they don't) and religious services of every faith other than Christianity are no longer present on base, then you might have an argument.

I'm not arguing anything, just pointing out your moronic refusal to acknowledge that the "christianization" of the military and the war is an issue that has been widely reported on, discussed, and examined for some time now. You swept it away and discredited the poster condescendingly, so I stepped in to correct your slight. Get over it.

Simulcast

01/19/10, 02:38 PM

less isolated than you think. get off your high horse, do some goddamn research.

What type of research would that be? Typing in "Christian zealots in the military" in Google and pulling up a bunch of blogs and an Anderson Cooper piece about a supposed conspiracy to turn the U.S. army into the sword of Christ's mouth? Give me a break, dude. The majority of U.S. soldiers don't give a fuck about religion or following "God's commandments to wipe out the muslims". You want to solve a real problem? Focus on gang member joining the military. Now that's a concrete and proven problem. Get out of here with your bullshit.

rawesome

01/19/10, 02:43 PM

As a Christian, I don't give a fuck. They could've put "I love Satan" on them as long as they're killing the other guy.
That was disgusting.

What a great "Christian".

GeeBee

01/19/10, 02:45 PM

What type of research would that be? Typing in "Christian zealots in the military" in Google and pulling up a bunch of blogs and an Anderson Cooper piece about a supposed conspiracy to turn the U.S. army into the sword of Christ's mouth? Give me a break, dude. The majority of U.S. soldiers don't give a fuck about religion or following "God's commandments to wipe out the muslims". You want to solve a real problem? Focus on gang member joining the military. Now that's a concrete and proven problem. Get out of here with your bullshit.

Uh, yep, it would have been JUST that easy to confirm that it's a valid issue.

MyNameIsRoss

01/19/10, 02:49 PM

you just don't get it. I'm done.

SunnyInPhilly

01/19/10, 02:49 PM

Since I gathered exactly that from his term in quotations, I guess that makes me logical. Glad I win.

The wikipedia article was a reference to help you wrap your mind around the concept of a rhetorical reference, you simple prick.

No, it means you interpreted the post differently. There were several other posters who assumed he was referring to soldiers that are Christian. His post was obscure at best. Not really worth arguing at this point.

Simulcast

01/19/10, 02:50 PM

Uh, yep, it would have been JUST that easy to confirm that it's a valid issue.

That doesn't make it valid. 3 incidences. With that logic I could say radical Islam is a valid issue in the military, given the Ft. Hood shootings and the actions of Sgt. Asan Akbar in Kuwait a few years ago. Unless you believe that it is a valid issue?

bard

01/19/10, 02:52 PM

using internet blogs as evidence? weird.

SunnyInPhilly

01/19/10, 02:54 PM

using internet blogs as evidence? weird.

Glad someone else noticed this too. Apparently reading a blog on Huffington Post passes for research to some people.

Simulcast

01/19/10, 02:54 PM

using internet blogs as evidence? weird.

Thank you.

GeeBee

01/19/10, 02:55 PM

There were several other posters who assumed he was referring to soldiers that are Christian. His post was obscure at best. Not really worth arguing at this point.
You're right. Since you're too dense to pick up an obvious cultural reference, you're not worth arguing with.
That doesn't make it valid. 3 incidences. With that logic I could say radical Islam is a valid issue in the military, given the Ft. Hood shootings and the actions of Sgt. Asan Akbar in Kuwait a few years ago. Unless you agree that it is a valid issue?

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20061231_chris_hedges_americas_holy _warriors/
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/3/125520/2516
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8171

I can keep using my google, since you're apparently too stupid to.

GeeBee

01/19/10, 02:57 PM

using internet blogs as evidence? weird.

Glad someone else noticed this too. Apparently reading a blog on Huffington Post passes for research to some people.

Thank you.

Ah, arguing against the source rather than the content, which happens to prove you dead wrong...

That, too, is a new one.

Simulcast

01/19/10, 02:57 PM

You're right. Since you're too dense to pick up an obvious cultural reference, you're not worth arguing with.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20061231_chris_hedges_americas_holy _warriors/
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/3/125520/2516
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8171

I can keep using my google, since you're apparently too stupid to.

Awesome, more blogs including dailykos! Sooooo is Radical Islam a problem in the military? I googled it and found many results. Many of them were from blogs.

GeeBee

01/19/10, 02:58 PM

Awesome, more blogs including dailykos! Sooooo is Radical Islam a problem in the military? I googled it and found many results. Many of them were from blogs.

Since 12 people are dead as a result, I'd have no argument with that statement. Your point?

Simulcast

01/19/10, 02:59 PM

Ah, arguing against the source rather than the content, which happens to prove you dead wrong...

That, too, is a new one.

Yes, that is a good MO to follow when doing research. From now on my papers in Roman history will disregard the source of information and only use information that pertains to my particular beliefs. Who cares who wrote it?

bard

01/19/10, 02:59 PM

GeeBee

01/19/10, 03:00 PM

i'm not arguing either side.

i'm just saying posting random blogs isn't proving your point, on either side of the argument. i can find blogs of people who support/"have evidence" for tons of crazy crap, but it doesn't make it true.

The blogs weren't posted trying to prove the issue one way or the other. They were posted as evidence that IT IS AN ISSUE.

GeeBee

01/19/10, 03:01 PM

Yes, that is a good MO to follow when doing research. From now on my papers in Roman history will disregard the source of information and only use information that pertains to my particular beliefs. Who cares who wrote it?

Again, missing the point. See above.

I'm not trying to prove the military is being christianized. I'm trying to point out how moronic it was of you to say it wasn't an issue. It IS an issue that's been discussed widely.

SunnyInPhilly

01/19/10, 03:04 PM

Ah, arguing against the source rather than the content, which happens to prove you dead wrong...

That, too, is a new one.

You obviously don't understand what the word "prove" means. Here you go.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prove

The fact that 75% of your "proof" is editorial blogs shows that you don't grasp the concept.

macabre

01/19/10, 03:16 PM

Uh Oh

GeeBee

01/19/10, 03:24 PM

You obviously don't understand what the word "prove" means. Here you go.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prove

The fact that 75% of your "proof" is editorial blogs shows that you don't grasp the concept.

For about the tenth time, gumshoe, the citations PROVE that it's an issue that is being widely discussed.

wrppdarndyrfngr

01/19/10, 04:02 PM

here are some mainstream news providers discussing overall issue of evangelical christians in the military:

NPR - Evangelical Chaplains Test Bounds of Faith in Military

FoxNews - U.S. Military Accused of Handing Out Bibles in Afghanistan (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/04/military-accused-handing-bibles-afghanistan/)

Newsweek - http://www.newsweek.com/id/202734

acemvivere

01/19/10, 04:06 PM

Somehow I'm not quite surprised.

Machu505

01/19/10, 04:14 PM

To be honest, I don't care.

GeeBee

01/19/10, 04:19 PM

To be honest, I don't care.

So what's to differentiate one religiously-motivated killing from another?

Machu505

01/19/10, 04:21 PM

So what's to differentiate one religiously-motivated killing from another?
It's just that inscriptions on guns are the last thing on my mind right now. I'm not condoning, it's just not a top priority.

GeeBee

01/19/10, 04:22 PM

It's just that inscriptions on guns are the last thing on my mind right now. I'm not condoning, it's just not a top priority.

I gotcha. Fair enough.

EchoPark

01/19/10, 04:24 PM

abortion=okay

Christian quotes on gun sight=not okay.

Any questions?

GeeBee

01/19/10, 04:26 PM

abortion=okay

Christian quotes on gun sight=not okay.

Any questions?

Apple ok.
Orange ok.
Apple compared to Orange= not okay.

Any questions?

Machu505

01/19/10, 04:28 PM

abortion=okay

Christian quotes on gun sight=not okay.

Any questions?
This makes no sense.

bard

01/19/10, 04:29 PM

whole milk? = okay
skim milk? = not okay
chocolate milk = okay

any questions?

bladerdude360

01/19/10, 04:30 PM

I saw this on my homepage a little while ago, it's sort of disconcerting.

GeeBee

01/19/10, 04:31 PM

whole milk? = okay
skim milk? = not okay
chocolate milk = okay

any questions?

Guns in the army= ok
Abortion= ok
Performing an abortion with a gun upon which Christian creeds are inscribed= not ok.

Any questions?

bard

01/19/10, 04:32 PM

Guns in the army= ok
Abortion= ok
Performing an abortion with a gun upon which Christian creeds are inscribed= not ok.

Any questions?
lol

any questions?

rawesome

01/19/10, 04:38 PM

I'm going to go ahead and ask this again:
Why would anyone do this to begin with?

.invisible ink.

01/19/10, 04:39 PM

i'm not surprised but i am disappointed. this company has a government contract therefore it's our tax dollars paying this organization. I believe strongly in "separation of church and state" and don't really want my tax dollars being used to promote their religious message but that's just me.