selloutts

[headclub]

i hate it when people are like this band is a bunch of sellouts because they write their own music, have a huge fan base, and are pretty damn successful...damn sellouts...i want my band to stay underground, make no profit, and never be able to afford to tour and support my band...HELLZ YEA I AM HARDCORE PUNK...

lets take the biggest bunch of "sellouts" mentioned on this site- Fall Out Boy
im not a big fan...but
you all call them sellouts because

A. they have music videos on MTV
B. they have a huge fan base
C. they went from Take This To Your Grave, normal poppunk, to FUTCT, more experimental
D. they do huge stadiums, that sell out, and every kid sings back to them
E. they do it all for the money

well

A. who gives a shit if a band decides MTV can use their music video
B. well, isnt that what all bands want...a FANBASE?
C. just because a band evolves, becomes more mature, and doesnt write the same riffs and lyrics 12 times...isnt selling out
D. yet again...look at B
E. nope...if it was for the money and not the fan, would they do acoustic sets in apartments on new years eve, would they tour almost everyday for 2 years straight?

just because a band matures and evolves doesnt mean they are sellouts

a sellout would be like NOFX joining the President Bush Support Group for 134252 dollars saying fuck it to all the songs they have wrote

selling out is forgeting what you started a band for...not the money, not the girls, not anything other than to have fun and write music and pass time with friends

selling out is forgetting what your band and music stands for and wanting money

fuck the whole sellout business..if you dont know what you are talking about dont call a band a sellout

and i know there is going to be a bunch of replys like "tool," or "haha, stfu dumbass" or whatever, i really dont care

like i read from some post on here

fighting online is like winning the special olympics...at the end of the day you are still fucking retarded

[x togepi x]

i hate it when people try and justify selling out. which is common on this site.

being popular does not necessarily equal selling out. and changing your musical style does not necessarily mean maturation.

i absolutely hate how you framed this debate in a way for someone like me, who hates sellouts, is kind of forced to justify bands becoming stagnant.

[PDon11]

Selling out to me is when a band changes their sound or image just to get more famous or sell more records. And not a changing of sound thats a progression on previous releases but a changing of sound that is intentially made to be more mainstream and popular.

[odnetnin]

Define sellout.

[x togepi x]

Define sellout.

that's the question....i define it as a band that goes against their values for bigger success. some of my favorite bands are on majors.

[HonnieBononnie]

this was how the bass player (Josh Applebach) from Greeley Estates replied when asked about selling out


hmm. this is kinda a loaded question.

you know, the more i became involved and interested in the music industry the more i realized that the lines between selling out and staying true to the music are really very very blurred.

heres a quick story. years ago i was a big fan of Chris Carrabba of Further Seems Forever and later Dashboard Confessional. I went to shows and saw how he poured his heart out on stage. it was almost overwhelming. then he got a band, then he played an electric guitar and later he was heard on the RADIO!!! i almost died watching what I saw as "the death of dashboard confessional" ... then AP published an article/interview with Chris Carrabba. Chris responded to how his fans may have been recieving his growth in popularity. And what he said really changed the way i felt about it.. but it was Alexis Neptune, the wife of Chad Neptune (bass player for Further Seems Forever and long time friend of Chris Carrabba) that really changed the way i viewed "selling out".. she told me how musicians can only afford to be musicians if they "sell out".

there is just not enough money available to bands to be on an indie label forever and not be played on the radio and sellout tours and such. its true! dudes in business suits are the ones making money, not the artists. its the sad reality of it. But if you like a band enough to want them to be able to continue making music, they have to be widely known. So theres a big misunderstanding by most scene kids out there.

For example: Greeley Estates is not a big band by most standards. Yet most of the kids are shocked to find out that all of us have jobs! None of us make any money on Greeley Estates shows, merch sales, etc. All the money we make goes right back into the band!!! (insuring our van / trailor, merch & album production, promotions, touring, manager & lawyer fees, and much more!)

One day, if we continue to be so blessed, we might be able to make a career out of this, and on that day, half of our fans will call us sell outs. Oh, if they only knew...

Thanks for the great question!

I relly like how he responded to this and it pretty much changed how i looked at the situation

[x togepi x]

there is just not enough money available to bands to be on an indie label forever and not be played on the radio and sellout tours and such. its true! dudes in business suits are the ones making money, not the artists. its the sad reality of it. But if you like a band enough to want them to be able to continue making music, they have to be widely known. So theres a big misunderstanding by most scene kids out there.



what about Fugazi or Ted Leo?

You can make money and be on an indie label.

[irishpunk14]

i hate it when people try and justify selling out. which is common on this site.

being popular does not necessarily equal selling out. and changing your musical style does not necessarily mean maturation.

i absolutely hate how you framed this debate in a way for someone like me, who hates sellouts, is kind of forced to justify bands becoming stagnant.I agree.

[odnetnin]

that's the question....i define it as a band that goes against their values for bigger success. some of my favorite bands are on majors.
Seems rather contradicting to me.

[x togepi x]

well like, some of them are older bands that existed at a time where there weren't really indie labels like the beatles

and others are like the mars volta who are all about having total creative control, and their label, universal, let's them do whatever they want on their albums. they're not really going against their values.

[BreakerBreaker]

Hot Cross and Set Your Goals.

[3milesdown]

sellout is an overused term. i think all bands are sellouts because money is needed.

[x togepi x]

sellout is an overused term. i think all bands are sellouts because money is needed.

see kids? this was what i was talking about when I made my post.

you can be DIY all you want. Selling out has more to do with you making a statement and then going back on it to gain popularity. It's not merely just being popular, and it really pisses me off when people straw man selling out in that way. stop justifying it, it's not a good thing when your favorite band decides to essentially tell you that the lyrics to their back catalog are nothing but a bunch of lies like against me! did.

[headclub]

sellout is an overused term. i think all bands are sellouts because money is needed.

making SELLING OUT nonexistant

in the industry selling out is needed to be able to afford to be a band
touring is super expensive and so is releasing albums

[headclub]

see kids? this was what i was talking about when I made my post.

you can be DIY all you want. Selling out has more to do with you making a statement and then going back on it to gain popularity. It's not merely just being popular, and it really pisses me off when people straw man selling out in that way. stop justifying it, it's not a good thing when your favorite band decides to essentially tell you that the lyrics to their back catalog are nothing but a bunch of lies like against me! did.

ive always hated against me...but i see what you are saying..i was trying to state what the guy before you said. like my last post...i must have worded it wrong

[odnetnin]

well like, some of them are older bands that existed at a time where there weren't really indie labels like the beatles

and others are like the mars volta who are all about having total creative control, and their label, universal, let's them do whatever they want on their albums. they're not really going against their values.
Music videos? What?

[phoenixinflames]

I'm at work right now...and i just got a ton of funny looks cause i seriously laughed so hard while reading the first post here.

[x togepi x]

Music videos? What?

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. if it's a diss on the mars volta for their videos, i'm pretty sure they came up with that entire concept. I haven't really seen any of the videos besides televators and the widow though and i think music videos are just extraneous anyway.

but seriously, everyone who thinks selling out is "necessary" needs to tell me how ted leo and fugazi aren't making money...because I'm pretty sure Ian Mackaye turned down a duffle bag of cash from Sony just to keep control of his label, and he seems to be doing fine for himself.

Touring does cost a lot of money, but you can still make that money on an indie label, since bands usually get higher cuts from their cds from indies than they do from majors.

[Juliana101]

The problem with "selling out" is that if you want to be in music because you love it, and you want to pick it up as your profession, then you need to make money. I realized this when my favorite band, The Juliana Theory, broke up.

They wrote this huge blog on how they needed to sell their equipment just to keep going. If you love music and you want to do it for the rest of your life, then you need to.

Why is it OK for athletes and celebrities to want multi million dollar paychecks to play sports or act in movies, and it's completely wrong for a band to want to make some money off of it? Isn't it still entertainment?

[x togepi x]

There isn't a problem if bands want to make millions of dollars (even though that's stupid since the only people that really deserve that much money would be people who find the cure for aids/cancer). The problem is when a band *sells out* an ideal to get this money.

For example, you start a pop-punk band, get signed to Island...that's not selling out.

you start an anti-capitalist punk band that rants about hating the military industrial complex, and then you sign to a major label, where most majors are tied to arms companies, you're a sell out.

There's a huge difference between the two scenarios, and that's what people need to realize. At the point where you go back on your ideals to get more popularity/money,you become a sell out, and that is bad because it calls into question every lyric you've sang in your back catalog. It becomes fake.

[Juliana101]

There isn't a problem if bands want to make millions of dollars (even though that's stupid since the only people that really deserve that much money would be people who find the cure for aids/cancer). The problem is when a band *sells out* an ideal to get this money.

For example, you start a pop-punk band, get signed to Island...that's not selling out.

you start an anti-capitalist punk band that rants about hating the military industrial complex, and then you sign to a major label, where most majors are tied to arms companies, you're a sell out.

There's a huge difference between the two scenarios, and that's what people need to realize. At the point where you go back on your ideals to get more popularity/money,you become a sell out, and that is bad because it calls into question every lyric you've sang in your back catalog. It becomes fake.


ohhhhhhh I get what you're saying now, I agree with you then.

[headclub]

There isn't a problem if bands want to make millions of dollars (even though that's stupid since the only people that really deserve that much money would be people who find the cure for aids/cancer). The problem is when a band *sells out* an ideal to get this money.

For example, you start a pop-punk band, get signed to Island...that's not selling out.

you start an anti-capitalist punk band that rants about hating the military industrial complex, and then you sign to a major label, where most majors are tied to arms companies, you're a sell out.

There's a huge difference between the two scenarios, and that's what people need to realize. At the point where you go back on your ideals to get more popularity/money,you become a sell out, and that is bad because it calls into question every lyric you've sang in your back catalog. It becomes fake.

i agree completely

[atticus1492]

tool

[atticus1492]

haha, stfu dumbass

[atticus1492]

I know this is an old post but I think you hit the proverbial nail right on the head with this post.
Very well said!

And to those that say indie bands can't thrive and/or survive? Fugazi and NoMeansNo are classic examples.

Also, epic bump.

[wyverna]

i already made this thread years ago and it was a shit thread even then.

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?t=82884

[LifeInDecay]

There isn't a problem if bands want to make millions of dollars (even though that's stupid since the only people that really deserve that much money would be people who find the cure for aids/cancer). The problem is when a band *sells out* an ideal to get this money.

For example, you start a pop-punk band, get signed to Island...that's not selling out.

you start an anti-capitalist punk band that rants about hating the military industrial complex, and then you sign to a major label, where most majors are tied to arms companies, you're a sell out.

There's a huge difference between the two scenarios, and that's what people need to realize. At the point where you go back on your ideals to get more popularity/money,you become a sell out, and that is bad because it calls into question every lyric you've sang in your back catalog. It becomes fake.

That senario should clear up any confussion. I completly agree. It also bugs me when people keep say that if your selling out it dosn't always mean there's money involved. Of coures it is, hence the term "sell out"

[xvszero]

Well Fall Out Boy always sucked so no big deal.

It is slightly annoying when a band changes their sound just to get big, but hey... if bands don't get big they generally end up breaking up soon enough anyway once band members decide they want to actually be able to support a family someday and being a starving artist isn't cutting it anymore.

[Antics]

Set Your Goals.


hahahaha.

no.

[hairsprayqueen]

i'd rather not pay attention to this stuff. and if someone likes a band that's a 'sellout' it doesnt matter, as long as they're enjoying themselves let them listen. they can listen to all the 'shitty sellout' music they want. it's just their taste. imo.

[TheOtherAndrew]

i hate it when people try and justify selling out. which is common on this site.

being popular does not necessarily equal selling out. and changing your musical style does not necessarily mean maturation.

i absolutely hate how you framed this debate in a way for someone like me, who hates sellouts, is kind of forced to justify bands becoming stagnant.
Dude, you don't have to respond to a guy's thread if its overtly obvious he doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

[jordanvanwieche]

a great example of sell out is avril lavengn(?) she used to pretend to be punk and it worked for her and she used to say "fuck the pretty girl image", and do things like spit on camera (so punk...) or show her ass. now with her new record from what i hear of her girlfriend song she is a girl now. what happened to her im a punk girl image? she sold out thats what.

ps i do not like avril i just thought it was a good example.

[TheOtherAndrew]

a great example of sell out is avril lavengn(?) she used to pretend to be punk and it worked for her
Amazing first post.

hQRI9N-KBbc

[Yes. And?]

a great example of sell out is avril lavengn(?) she used to pretend to be punk and it worked for her and she used to say "fuck the pretty girl image", and do things like spit on camera (so punk...) or show her ass. now with her new record from what i hear of her girlfriend song she is a girl now. what happened to her im a punk girl image? she sold out thats what.

ps i do not like avril i just thought it was a good example.
lol

[gloriousmuse]

Amazing first post.

hQRI9N-KBbc


start them young i guess; but aw, she was cute

[iaminsane20]

sellout is an overused term. i think all bands are sellouts because money is needed.
well obviously. you need money when your in a band or else the band wont survive. even if you play shows for free, they still take donations for the bands playing, cause they need it. without money, you cant buy gas, get on tours, or get food.

[iaminsane20]

what also sucks is when people have liked a band since they started, then once they "sellout" they completely change theri opinion...paging underoath.

[jordanvanwieche]

i hate the fact that people call fall out boy sell outs. i went to their concert and they now have sell out boy concert tees for sale. its almost like they are embracing it. fall out boy is my favourite band and i hate when people call them sell outs. plus dont judge me on liking fall out boy they are the only pop punk band that i like. its just sad to see the ignorance people have and how poor of a vocabulary they have. it seems like if they dont like a band they call them a sell out without thinking about the true meaning.

there chicken fucker. happy?

[iaminsane20]

i hate the fact that people call fall out boy sell outs. i went to their concert and they now have sell out boy concert tees for sale. its almost like they are ambracing it. fall out boy is my favourtie band and i hate when people call them sell outs. plus dont judge me on liking fall out boy they are the only pop punk band that i like. its just sad to see the ignorance people have and how poor of a vocabulary they have. it seems like if they dont like a band they call them a sell out without thinking about the true meaning.
and you have bad spelling. ambracing? favourtie?

[jordanvanwieche]

i may have bad spelling but atleast i can put together a sentance. i have bad spelling because i type what i think and dont proof read. this is an online forum not a formal essay

[TheOtherAndrew]

i may have bad spelling but atleast i can put together a sentance. i have bad spelling because i type what i think and dont proof read. this is an online forum not a formal essay
correct spelling leads to people seeing that you're intelligent, which then leads to people taking you seriously.

[jordanvanwieche]

i suppose you are right. although i did take a spelling test back in the eigth grade and it told me i had the spelling of a kid in grade 6. ive always lacked in that category, but dont you think that were a little off topic?

[iaminsane20]

i may have bad spelling but atleast i can put together a sentance. i have bad spelling because i type what i think and dont proof read. this is an online forum not a formal essay
true, but when you complain about how people have bad grammar, and then you cant spell, then you might as well not talk.

[jordanvanwieche]

its not like i cant spell they are typos, but whatever your right

[iaminsane20]

its not like i cant spell they are typos, but whatever your right
sorry if i sounded like an asshole, but its just dumb when people try to say something then they say something that makes them sound as dumb as what they are trying to say. not trying to single you out, but its all people.

[absolutecrunk]

its not like i cant spell they are typos, but whatever your right
Not a typo.
You can spell. Just not very well.

[yournewhaircut]

Selling out and popularity have no connection at all.

[underthetalking]

Street cred don't pay the bills.

[theguy77]

the reason i don't think fall out boy are sellouts is because i believe that they really do still feel the music they write. i really hate infinity on high but especially as patrick writes most of the music, i mean its obvious he just wants music that allows him to sing in a certain style, and i can respect that. i feel like they got poppier because they wanted to, not because the pop culture wanted them to.

sellout is such a convenient term people use when one of their favorite bands starts making a new style of music. just because you dont feel the music doesnt mean the band doesn't either.

as for the indie/major label deal, if you're a band that's been around for awhile and has some real talent you can make a decent sum of money off of good-sized indie label. indie labels can get you music videos that are played on fuse and might be played on MTV, and if your music is good enough, there are plenty of other ways you can promote massively--AP.net would be an example. look at thrice, they're pretty well-known and on an indie label they're making enough money that they even continue to donate a lot of it to charities. however an indie label will probably never be able to give you the funds you need to feel secure for the life ahead of you, so if you never hit it big on a good deal with a major label you'd have to be ready to jump right into another career right after the band breaks up.

as for the fanbase thing, fall out boy's fanbase is becoming more fickle as time progresses. the direction they've taken has lost most of their hardcore TTTYG fans and since FUCT blew up its only been the singles that have kept them alive. they're now under a lot of pressure like most young bands on major labels to make great records, because if one record is a flop and isn't well perceived, the major label sees no more profit in them and "shelves" them -- stops promoting them, stops putting them on good tours, doesn't work as hard to get the singles out there, etc. since they're out on the pop-culture and have lost most of their die hard fanbase a lot of what they've got left is fickle fans who only pay attention to them when their singles are on MTV and the radio, and if the label "shelves" them for a poor release they basically fall off the face of the earth.

and that is why i believe no band should jump into the pop culture that early. i'd say wait for the fourth album, kind of like death cab.

[dbair88]

id say theirs a differance between selling out and buying it also. cuz if you make a song or 2 that you know will be on the radio(so you will make money) that seems like buying in to me. but if you let a record label change you style or somethin like that. that seems like selling out

[jorn444]

the reason i don't think fall out boy are sellouts is because i believe that they really do still feel the music they write. i really hate infinity on high but especially as patrick writes most of the music, i mean its obvious he just wants music that allows him to sing in a certain style, and i can respect that. i feel like they got poppier because they wanted to, not because the pop culture wanted them to.

sellout is such a convenient term people use when one of their favorite bands starts making a new style of music. just because you dont feel the music doesnt mean the band doesn't either.

as for the indie/major label deal, if you're a band that's been around for awhile and has some real talent you can make a decent sum of money off of good-sized indie label. indie labels can get you music videos that are played on fuse and might be played on MTV, and if your music is good enough, there are plenty of other ways you can promote massively--AP.net would be an example. look at thrice, they're pretty well-known and on an indie label they're making enough money that they even continue to donate a lot of it to charities. however an indie label will probably never be able to give you the funds you need to feel secure for the life ahead of you, so if you never hit it big on a good deal with a major label you'd have to be ready to jump right into another career right after the band breaks up.

as for the fanbase thing, fall out boy's fanbase is becoming more fickle as time progresses. the direction they've taken has lost most of their hardcore TTTYG fans and since FUCT blew up its only been the singles that have kept them alive. they're now under a lot of pressure like most young bands on major labels to make great records, because if one record is a flop and isn't well perceived, the major label sees no more profit in them and "shelves" them -- stops promoting them, stops putting them on good tours, doesn't work as hard to get the singles out there, etc. since they're out on the pop-culture and have lost most of their die hard fanbase a lot of what they've got left is fickle fans who only pay attention to them when their singles are on MTV and the radio, and if the label "shelves" them for a poor release they basically fall off the face of the earth.

and that is why i believe no band should jump into the pop culture that early. i'd say wait for the fourth album, kind of like death cab.
I think you would be suprised about how many "diehard" fans they still have, but I see what you're saying.

[skanking4u20]

one of my favorite bands i am listening to now is against me! and their are allot of people shit talking them about joining universal and my message to them is get over your selfs its still the same guys singing good songs music is music weather you play in a basement or an arena

[noisefloor1989]

If I found out my favorite music artists were serial rapists today, I wouldn't care.
It's my music. I don't let it get more personal than that.
If they change (for money or otherwise) and sound different, and I ENJOY it, I don't hold it against them, and will continue to listen to them regardless.

[XxIronistxX]

i hate it when people are like this band is a bunch of sellouts because they write their own music, have a huge fan base, and are pretty damn successful...damn sellouts...i want my band to stay underground, make no profit, and never be able to afford to tour and support my band...HELLZ YEA I AM HARDCORE PUNK...

lets take the biggest bunch of "sellouts" mentioned on this site- Fall Out Boy
im not a big fan...but
you all call them sellouts because

A. they have music videos on MTV
B. they have a huge fan base
C. they went from Take This To Your Grave, normal poppunk, to FUTCT, more experimental
D. they do huge stadiums, that sell out, and every kid sings back to them
E. they do it all for the money

well

A. who gives a shit if a band decides MTV can use their music video
B. well, isnt that what all bands want...a FANBASE?
C. just because a band evolves, becomes more mature, and doesnt write the same riffs and lyrics 12 times...isnt selling out
D. yet again...look at B
E. nope...if it was for the money and not the fan, would they do acoustic sets in apartments on new years eve, would they tour almost everyday for 2 years straight?

just because a band matures and evolves doesnt mean they are sellouts

a sellout would be like NOFX joining the President Bush Support Group for 134252 dollars saying fuck it to all the songs they have wrote

selling out is forgeting what you started a band for...not the money, not the girls, not anything other than to have fun and write music and pass time with friends

selling out is forgetting what your band and music stands for and wanting money

fuck the whole sellout business..if you dont know what you are talking about dont call a band a sellout

and i know there is going to be a bunch of replys like "tool," or "haha, stfu dumbass" or whatever, i really dont care

like i read from some post on here

fighting online is like winning the special olympics...at the end of the day you are still fucking retarded
i completely agree.

[theguy77]

meh he didnt say anything that hasnt been said 45,000 times before. people on this site are typically not ignorant enough to use the word sellout for most bands anyway.