Stem Cell Research Debate (cont.)

[Scuba Chris]

There was one brewing in the general forum here so I thought I would continue it in here since the original thread got deleted.

I believe the ethics of dealing with unborn children is very sticky, so much so that I am not exactly sure where I stand on them. I am for stem cell research and abortion... but am not crazy about killing a fetus in the process.

Discuss.

[splitsecond]

i thought maybe it got moved... guess not.

[Scuba Chris]

i thought maybe it got moved... guess not.

booyah deleted it. I guess he didn't want the nasty debate to happen.

[cantnokdahustle]

There was one brewing in the general forum here so I thought I would continue it in here since the original thread got deleted.

I believe the ethics of dealing with unborn children is very sticky, so much so that I am not exactly sure where I stand on them. I am for stem cell research and abortion... but am not crazy about killing a fetus in the process.

Discuss.


an embryo is not a fetus.

zygote
embryo
then fetus.

[cal1082]

it shouldnt be a political issue just like marriage. government should stay out of it

[dangets]

it shouldnt be a political issue just like marriage. government should stay out of it

it is a political issue though, because stem cell research, like most scientific research, is dependent upon on government funding

[cal1082]

it is a political issue though, because stem cell research, like most scientific research, is dependent upon on government funding

many like me think that if embryonic stem cell research shows results the private sector will fund it

[FallingOut]

So much that Bush has done has angered me....this might be the most ridiculous thing he has done yet. To veto this bill that will give something more funding that has scientifically proven to help cancer research and other medical things....its mind boggling to me. About 70% of Americans support this cause, and Bush ignores them. Scientists support it, other Republicans support it, he ignores them. This man is just unbelievable.

Tony Snow said Bush wasnt going to support something that was "murder." MURDER??? Use some common sense here, please. Stem cells are not human beings, by any means.

Like Cal said, for government to be involved in this is ridiculous. This is common sense.

[cal1082]

So much that Bush has done has angered me....this might be the most ridiculous thing he has done yet. To veto this bill that will give something more funding that has scientifically proven to help cancer research and other medical things....its mind boggling to me. About 70% of Americans support this cause, and Bush ignores them. Scientists support it, other Republicans support it, he ignores them. This man is just unbelievable.

Embryonic stem cell research has not proven to help anything.

[YourMusicSucks]

Embryonic stem cell research has not proven to help anything.

Yes it has. Don't ask me to prove it, you can use google yourself =P

[cal1082]

Yes it has. Don't ask me to prove it, you can use google yourself =P

I'm about 99% it hasnt proven to help anything as of yet. About a year ago a big deal was made over a scientist in South Korea, I believe, that said he had some major breakthrough. This was advocates of embryonic stem cell researchs first proof that it did actually do something. Months later it turned out the scientist had made up his research.

Unless something has come up in the last year or so we're still at the same point. All you can say is "possibly".

I'd readily admit I'm wrong if you can show me that embryonic stem cell research has proven anything?

[FallingOut]

I'm about 99% it hasnt proven to help anything as of yet. About a year ago a big deal was made over a scientist in South Korea, I believe, that said he had some major breakthrough. This was advocates of embryonic stem cell researchs first proof that it did actually do something. Months later it turned out the scientist had made up his research.

Unless something has come up in the last year or so we're still at the same point. All you can say is "possibly".

I'd readily admit I'm wrong if you can show me that embryonic stem cell research has proven anything?

Alright maybe I was wrong saying its proven. But as far as I have heard, the debate seems to be over that stem cell research certainly has potential. So obviously getting more funding will help bring out this potential and hopefully help cure cancer and other things. It just seems incredibly obvious that if so many scientists believe that this research can do great things, that we should take advantage of that. Not doing so is practically moving backwards.

[cal1082]

Alright maybe I was wrong saying its proven. But as far as I have heard, the debate seems to be over that stem cell research certainly has potential. So obviously getting more funding will help bring out this potential and hopefully help cure cancer and other things. It just seems incredibly obvious that if so many scientists believe that this research can do great things, that we should take advantage of that. Not doing so is practically moving backwards.

there is research being done on the existing lines, if the promise is that great companies will jump aboard.

Like I said, with such a dividing issue i think it's best the federal gov. stay out, if anything put the funding in the hands of individual states. Threre's also greater implications if it does prove to be successful that has to be addressed like cloning as well.

[noodledancer]

stem cell research will not grind to a halt because the president doesn't want to allocate more federal funds to the endeavor. the research has been, & will continue to be funded privately or local governments. while i don't really agree with the president's decision, it is not the end all, be all for stem cell research.

[richter915]

so stupid...

[megwhite]

My mother works in a reproductive clinic, which helps people get pregnant, if they cannot do themselves because of medical reasons. So, she personally knows that over 100 embryos, not babies by any means, are left there.

These embryos could be used to find treatments to cancer, aids, alzheimers. It drives me insane because there are objects that could be tested to find cures that would hurt or impede on NO ONE but yet something is once again, immoral.

[love_american_style]

this debate has been goin on for years and im still ignorant to what stem cell research is........i dont think i even know what a stem cell is.

[coatbutton]

You don't have to kill a fetus (or a zygote, or an embryo) to get stem cells. Research can be done with adult stem cells, and cells from umbilical cords.

[cal1082]

Some of you need to remember that embryonic stem cell research is not illegal.

[dangets]

many like me think that if embryonic stem cell research shows results the private sector will fund it

there are probably plenty of private sector sources that would be willing to fund promising research, but by not fully supporting it i think the government would be losing out. it would be another step in the steady decline of their scientific credibility, and probably damaging to America's historical leadership in science and technology, something that goes a long way in increasing our soft power influence with other countries, and incidentally something that is also on the decline.

[basementsong]

this debate has been goin on for years and im still ignorant to what stem cell research is........i dont think i even know what a stem cell is. it's a generalized type of cell from which other types of cells can develop.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=define:+stem+cell

[NameTaken69]

i'm proud to live in a state in which our governor has signed a bill that will set aside $100 million over 10 years for stem cell research.

[FallingOut]

Some of you need to remember that embryonic stem cell research is not illegal.

Who ever said they thought it was illegal? I dont know why you continue to think that everybody in this thread is ignorant. I know its not illegal, I know it can be privately funded, but really much can private funding do? I doubt it could do that much. Im sure with a lot of government backing it could go a lot further. Nobody ever said it was going to die if Bush didnt approve it. We just want to see it be taken farther if it can do a lot of good.

[love_american_style]

it's a generalized type of cell from which other types of cells can develop.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=define:+stem+cell

thank you.

[NameTaken69]

We just want to see it be taken farther if it can do a lot of good.
i agree. i love the dave avatar by the way.

[boysdontcry17]

attack of the clones

[histrionics22]

Who ever said they thought it was illegal? I dont know why you continue to think that everybody in this thread is ignorant. I know its not illegal, I know it can be privately funded, but really much can private funding do? I doubt it could do that much. Im sure with a lot of government backing it could go a lot further. Nobody ever said it was going to die if Bush didnt approve it. We just want to see it be taken farther if it can do a lot of good.
People want federal funding for this, but then will cry about funding not going elsewhere. Unfortunately, its a lose lose situation.

If there is a decent breakthrough proving embryonic stem cells can lead to cures for various diseases, then there will be funding. Until then, it is a lost cause.

[justinevans]

I actually wrote a paper on this.

[matt_rawlings]

I really do not have a clue why people are so againt this.

They are dead, unborn featus's. Its just a step up from organ donation in my book, although stem cell research could very well cure some of the harshest diseases on the planet.

When issues concerning the health of the world are thrown out of congress on the basis of religion (because most of the ethical problems surrounding it are religiously based, no matter what bullshit excuse people get fed by CNN) then church and state become one, which is exactly what George Bush has been trying to do for 6 years

[justinevans]

I really do not have a clue why people are so againt this.

They are dead, unborn featus's. Its just a step up from organ donation in my book, although stem cell research could very well cure some of the harshest diseases on the planet.

When issues concerning the health of the world are thrown out of congress on the basis of religion (because most of the ethical problems surrounding it are religiously based, no matter what bullshit excuse people get fed by CNN) then church and state become one, which is exactly what George Bush has been trying to do for 6 years

George Bush is trying to win votes...the public is easily manipulated.

And I don't think anywhere in the bible it talks about using life to help life, I could be wrong.

[justinevans]

The biggest issue is Fear of the Unknown

[matt_rawlings]

Alot of Christian groups are against anything they consider 'Unnatural'. This means anything that deals with man screwing around with our genetics.

Religious groups have been putting pressure on the government and researchers the world over to stop stem cell research as well as many other advanced studies at a genetic level.

They believe that in doing this we are tampering with gods design for us, and trying to improve on gods work is a big no-no for them.

[parallelism]

Alot of Christian groups are against anything they consider 'Unnatural'. This means anything that deals with man screwing around with our genetics.

Religious groups have been putting pressure on the government and researchers the world over to stop stem cell research as well as many other advanced studies at a genetic level.

They believe that in doing this we are tampering with gods design for us, and trying to improve on gods work is a big no-no for them.


Yeah, so why are they still watching tv, using contraceptives (I know that some don't) and using artificial sweeteners? It's so stupid, because really, it's hardly different. It's like so many are so afraid to "break the rules," so instead, they just find stupid little ways around them. And then it's not bad anymore, I guess?

I personally think it's a big no-no to be that ridiculous. If you think it's immoral because you're destroying a life, then that's even crazier; it's an embryo, it's not like people are shipping in their babies to be tested with. I don't get how so many people can think that the whole, "God's design" rule only applies when it comes to manipulating people and their make-up. Any other animals or plants and it's okay, though?

As far as God's design, I think maybe they should've thought about God's design for the rainforests if they didn't want to have to resort to stem-cell research for cures. That's a hell of a lost cause now, though.

It's so stupid for people to make religion a factor in the argument against this.

[parallelism]

I really do not have a clue why people are so againt this.

They are dead, unborn featus's. Its just a step up from organ donation in my book, although stem cell research could very well cure some of the harshest diseases on the planet.

When issues concerning the health of the world are thrown out of congress on the basis of religion (because most of the ethical problems surrounding it are religiously based, no matter what bullshit excuse people get fed by CNN) then church and state become one, which is exactly what George Bush has been trying to do for 6 years

Religion should be way the fuck apart from state.
Period.

[PaulsRightNut]

cord blood

[_kelly]

Embryonic stem cell research has not proven to help anything.

im not that educated on the subject at all, so im not going to try to make some huge point, but my cousin had leukemia, got a stem cell transplant, and is still alive today because it.
im assuming the transplant wouldnt have been possible without some research, and to me, saving someones life is certainly helping something

[richter915]

that whole fetus farming shit is messed up. and I support stem cell research.

[richter915]

Some of you need to remember that embryonic stem cell research is not illegal.
that's not the debate and it really shouldn't be.

[cal1082]

im not that educated on the subject at all, so im not going to try to make some huge point, but my cousin had leukemia, got a stem cell transplant, and is still alive today because it.
im assuming the transplant wouldnt have been possible without some research, and to me, saving someones life is certainly helping something

it would have not been an embryonic stem cell

[richter915]

many like me think that if embryonic stem cell research shows results the private sector will fund it
private funding comes nowhere close to government grants. Pretty much, you're asking research to be done without money in order to get money...but u can't do research without initial funding.

[cal1082]

Also it's not specifically a religious issues. You can hold no religious views whatsoever and be against embryonic stem cell research based purely on the ethical question of if you are destroying human life.

Goes the same way for abortion as well. I have a friend who has no faith nor religion yet is against something like abortion.

[cal1082]

private funding comes nowhere close to government grants. Pretty much, you're asking research to be done without money in order to get money...but u can't do research without initial funding.

and it does have intial funding. guess the question is how much, how long, and then the big ethical issue.

[richter915]

Also it's not specifically a religious issues. You can hold no religious views whatsoever and be against embryonic stem cell research based purely on the ethical question of if you are destroying human life.

Goes the same way for abortion as well. I have a friend who has no faith nor religion yet is against something like abortion.
of course. But that's not how the majority of anti-abortion anti-embryonic stem cell research people are. Most of them are somewhat hard nose Christians (actually, not even Christians...just religious people in general).

[cal1082]

of course. But that's not how the majority of anti-abortion anti-embryonic stem cell research people are. Most of them are somewhat hard nose Christians (actually, not even Christians...just religious people in general).

Yes, because most who are religious have a problem with destroying the early stages of human life.

It's not a religious question though in general, it's an ethical one. Just so happens religion clearly falls on one side.

Take someone on these boards that is totaly against the death penalty and holds no religious views...........so is the question of the death penalty a religious one in general or an ethical one?

[richter915]

and it does have intial funding. guess the question is how much, how long, and then the big ethical issue.
right. My guess is that with stem cell research is that it's very fragile so it might take time to produce viable results but at the moment they can't get that funding...gov't funding would do it. But I agree with you and I think that eventually the results will be made (or not) and funding can be allocated. The government isn't stupid...they put so much money into war (which goes against Christian doctrine I'm guessing?) they shouldn't avoid it for this.