So I am joining AA, any advice?

[joeglenk]

My parents are alcoholics and I don't want to be them. I want to know what I may find before I walk in this Saturday. I woulld like to hear as much as I can about it before I go. I am kinda scared.

[Mibabalou]

lol

bring a 6 pack?

[muttley]

Show up as your avatar.

[PezMullet]

Get drunk before going. It's gonna ease things a little bit.

[Sic Transit Zeb]

My parents are alcoholics and I don't want to be them. I want to know what I may find before I walk in this Saturday. I woulld like to hear as much as I can about it before I go. I am kinda scared.

Why go to AA? Just stop drinking, or get a therapist. Seems like you're more worried about your parents than actual drinking issues. Not sure if you would qualify as an alcoholic. If I were you, get a therapist...talk about your issues.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

Do you already drink but want to attend AA before it gets out of hand?

[Smash Adams]

there are definitely organizations for family of alcoholics
ah google http://www.projectknow.com/alcohol-treatment/support-for-families-of-alcoholics.html

[xmicxcorex]

get plastered, dress up like ninja.

[Kozzy333]

I'm confused, are you and your parents alcoholics?

[perceptrons]

Fuck AA, seek treatment that doesn't require you to give yourself up to a "higher power."

[SomedayTheFire]

http://southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com/images/shows/southpark/vertical_video/import/season_09/sp_0914_05_v6.jpg
G'luck.

[Thriftstoresuit]

Um, are you drinking as well? otherwise, you're looking for an Al-anon meeting.

[xapplexpiex]

You guys are douches.
If you're not an alcoholic, don't go to AA. Go to a support group.

[intensified]

Take your parents with you since they probably need the help more than you do. I really don't understand the purpose of this thread.

[Lirr168]

Fuck AA, seek treatment that doesn't require you to give yourself up to a "higher power."

It's not about finding God or even a god, just acknowledging that you yourself are not the be all and end all, that there are things beyond your own control with which we all wrestle.

OP, unless you are certain that you have reached a point where you cannot control your drinking without the help of a group like AA, I would first make a serious effort on your own. AA is a lifelong commitment that isn't really going to do much unless you are 100% committed to it 100% of the time. At your age, it might be worth seeing what you can make of it on your own before you make such a lasting commitment.

[Two Headed Girl]

http://southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com/images/shows/southpark/vertical_video/import/season_09/sp_0914_05_v6.jpg
G'luck.

Love it.

[CobraLucha]

Fuck AA, seek treatment that doesn't require you to give yourself up to a "higher power."

The higher power can be anything. Doesn't have to necessarily be religious...
It could be a fucking mud ball if you really wanted it to be. I suppose you could even be your own higher power, somehow...

[walshknilb281]

its depressing as shit, I went twice court ordered for underage drinking. Not to be rude but the people there are pretty depressing looking and share horrible stories and it makes you not want to turn out anything like them

[the seventeenth]

you and your parents should give up drinking for good. Horrible addiction, so instead I can only reccomend one true substitute: do crack!
'or else da guv'ment will come nd take ur babies!

[Wake Up]

Fuck AA, seek treatment that doesn't require you to give yourself up to a "higher power."

this

[-karla]

It's not about finding God or even a god, just acknowledging that you yourself are not the be all and end all, that there are things beyond your own control with which we all wrestle.

OP, unless you are certain that you have reached a point where you cannot control your drinking without the help of a group like AA, I would first make a serious effort on your own. AA is a lifelong commitment that isn't really going to do much unless you are 100% committed to it 100% of the time. At your age, it might be worth seeing what you can make of it on your own before you make such a lasting commitment.

agreed.

i got myself into a serious drinking problem for about 1-2 years. most nights i'd drink to the point of blacking out. i ended up moving away from the place where i'd developed this awful problem and it was the best thing i could've done at the time. i also got into some really bad debt because of the drinking, but paid off all my credit card eventually.

moving away worked for me and soon enough i learned to control when i've had enough and got my shit together.

i still like to drink and get drunk at the weekends, but is definitely for fun now and not an escape.

[perceptrons]

It's not about finding God or even a god, just acknowledging that you yourself are not the be all and end all, that there are things beyond your own control with which we all wrestle.
The higher power can be anything. Doesn't have to necessarily be religious...
It could be a fucking mud ball if you really wanted it to be. I suppose you could even be your own higher power, somehow...

I am aware of how AA works. They don't have to say "God" when the entire program is oozing with religious overtones.

Either way, my point was that there are better places/programs to seek treatment from and that's still true.

[i fux i fux]

when i saw AA, i thought attack attack...

[ryanhorizons]

My parents are alcoholics and I don't want to be them. I want to know what I may find before I walk in this Saturday. I woulld like to hear as much as I can about it before I go. I am kinda scared.

this is a good step. if you feel like you need help, and you are making that first step, more power to you. with some help in the right direction you can fight this.

everyone lay the fuck off. people think drinking addictions are a joke, and they are not. maybe we should be supportive of our fellow ap.net user.

[WakingTheMisery]

Taking your parents was the best idea I heard. Or, just don't drink. You are young enough where it shouldn't be a compulsion.

[about3fitty]

http://southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com/images/shows/southpark/vertical_video/import/season_09/sp_0914_05_v6.jpg
G'luck.

its a diseeeeease

[from debris]

a lot denial going on around here

[intensified]

Taking your parents was the best idea I heard. Or, just don't drink. You are young enough where it shouldn't be a compulsion.

:highfive:

[roughroads]

AA is for quitters.
And quitters never win.

[joeglenk]

I do drink alot, in fact daily, and am looking to seek advice from others who have attended the program or know someone who has.

[warstory]

Uh lol at everyone discouraging you from going to aa. Go and check it out. If it's not for you then there are other options. My mom isn't an alcoholic but needed a new liver and had to go to meetings in order to be put on the transplant list. aa was too intense for her since she didn't have a drinking problem so as an alternative she went to this church thing that dealt with all types of addiction. She really liked ot because it wasn't preachy and not overly intense. So look around for something like that if aa doesn't work for you.

[joeglenk]

I have had enough abuse from all the comedians and smartass' today. I would like to give thanks to all the people that gave positive answers.

[joeglenk]

this is a good step. if you feel like you need help, and you are making that first step, more power to you. with some help in the right direction you can fight this.

everyone lay the fuck off. people think drinking addictions are a joke, and they are not. maybe we should be supportive of our fellow ap.net user.

Thank you man.

[MyNameIsRoss]

have some fucking self control. but seriously, i dont have any personal experience with AA, but it seems like a bullshit program, that obviously has religious undertones, (if you have a problem with that) and one of my good friends drinks (heavily) everyday, by himself even. He woke up today and drank a 24 pack and then tonight he had himself two pints of Jager. It's fucked up.

[lovekillsgirl]

To be perfectly honest group situations like that aren't so effective as compared to really just cracking down on your drinking and, building up a support system of friends for you and your parents. I think it'd be easier hearing from your friends that you need to quit drinking than compared to a room full of strangers who are struggling themselves to do so.
I kind of know from first hand experience what it's like to have an alcoholic parent; it totally sucks but if you really are serious about it and they are too, it's totally possible to recover. My dad's been sober for 10+ years now, he did it all on his own with the support from family and friends.

[circasurvivor]

Smoke pot

[Auals]

I have had enough abuse from all the comedians and smartass' today. I would like to give thanks to all the people that gave positive answers.

Move to Australia. Drinking daily is a common occurence here. In fact, I know quite a few people who finish off a six-pack every night after work. Drinking Daily is not alcoholism. However, if you truly feel you are, I advise seeing a psychologist/therapist. AA groups are still mostly support groups, a Psych/Therapist will actually drill down to the bedrock of your issue and help you sort it out.

Hope that helps. I was seirous about the Australia thing, it's much more relaxed here.

[bobcatbob18]

My dad attends AA and he really enjoys it. He tends to be more religious now (maybe not AA's doing) but he says it helps him get through another day sober. He once said something that really stuck a chord with me: "Don't leave AA saying 'I am never going to drink again' because for alcoholics that isn't realistic. Instead say 'I do not need a drink today.'"

[Shatter_Glass]

Just don't drop the soap....i think???

[PezMullet]

There's nothing bad about being an alcoholic!

ZAztYQN_DiE

vkM5H0Sbe7w

[Amour For Liars]

My parents are alcoholics and I don't want to be them. I want to know what I may find before I walk in this Saturday. I woulld like to hear as much as I can about it before I go. I am kinda scared.
Have them take DMT. Cured my 12 year manic depression. Its been used to treat alcholics with a 50% higher success rate then AA. and even used for heroin addicts. v-WtV-aEIxY
Side effects include ego loss, going to outerspace, talking with god, getting raped with love by aliens and permanent changes on lifes perspective.. Ill find the links on the alcholic treament, I remember something about one longtime drunk took it, was scared shitless out of his abuse and started going to church the very next sunday lol. Yeah it can do that.

ps. Im in st.louis too. atleast the treatment places and AA community seems positive and supportive around here, even though I didnt exactly have success with them. best of luck!

[-karla]

gone thru the above.... the secret is to be happy with yoursel. ;)

[SafetyofRoutine]

There's nothing really funny about any of this so I don't understand the smartass comments at all. Whatever you do, do something! Be proactive about it. First step is to acknowledge a problem and your there, pat yourself on the back. I'm not an alcoholic but I don't like support groups like that cause I hear all sad stories and feel shittier about life, for you it may be beneficial. One on one addiction therapy could also help. DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN YOUR ALREADY DOING. Join a class for something that interests you just for fun, you have to take your focus off alcohol and onto something else.

As far as friends, generally your circle of friends is determined by what you have been doing for awhile, they may not be supportive or take him seriously. His parents are alcoholics, they also will not be supportive and will very unlikely go to AA with him. You need outside support. Good luck.

[al.is.on]

Fuck AA, seek treatment that doesn't require you to give yourself up to a "higher power."

THIS!!!!

[LucasJ218]

I am aware of how AA works. They don't have to say "God" when the entire program is oozing with religious overtones.

Either way, my point was that there are better places/programs to seek treatment from and that's still true.

Don't say you're aware of how AA works and then repeat your idiotic comment. The emphasis isn't on religion but on realizing that you cannot rely on yourself and willpower alone to overcome the addiction you're facing. There is no such thing as a functioning alcoholic but the vast majority of alcoholics would claim they are one and that's the root of the problem.

The "higher power" isn't religion, necessarily. It's anything. You spout off misinformation that you've "read" or "watched" on the internet or other media without experiencing something for yourself as truth and you can discourage people from seeking help that really need it based on your own misconceptions.

Facts about AA.

1) It has worked and can work for millions the world over. Internationally. Multiple languages.
2) It's a "self-run" organization. There is no church or government council leading it. Members run it.
3) It's WIDELY available. Call your local police station and I guarantee they can point you to an AA meeting within twenty minutes of where you are that's currently in session.
4) It's completely (no really, get this) anonymous. Private. Nothing you share leaves group. Your attendance isn't known unless you share it with someone outside of group.

[Deadbolt23]

I say you go once or twice and check out if it's for you. If not, then look around for something that is. Good job for seeking help. It's not easy at all to admit you need it. Good luck.

[Rubato]

Fuck AA, seek treatment that doesn't require you to give yourself up to a "higher power."

This.

AA is a very underhanded, shady organization.

Ignoring the obvious oppressive religious affiliation, because that's all too easy to attack.

One of the things they purport is the mantra of "Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic" whereas numerous psychological studies on alcoholics have shown most alcoholics after seeking treatment (that's not AA) are able to return to occasional social drinking with out any major problems. Whereas, AA makes people believe if you even have ONE SIP of alcohol, you're a full-blown alcoholic again...causing people to snap and go right back to binging and then back to AA, therefore worsening the problem.

Making people think they're not in control of their own addictions and having to hand themselves over to a higher power doesn't help people, it just debilitates them and gives them even less confidence in themselves.

[Rubato]

Don't say you're aware of how AA works and then repeat your idiotic comment. The emphasis isn't on religion but on realizing that you cannot rely on yourself and willpower alone to overcome the addiction you're facing. There is no such thing as a functioning alcoholic but the vast majority of alcoholics would claim they are one and that's the root of the problem.

The "higher power" isn't religion, necessarily. It's anything. You spout off misinformation that you've "read" or "watched" on the internet or other media without experiencing something for yourself as truth and you can discourage people from seeking help that really need it based on your own misconceptions.

Facts about AA.

1) It has worked and can work for millions the world over. Internationally. Multiple languages.
2) It's a "self-run" organization. There is no church or government council leading it. Members run it.
3) It's WIDELY available. Call your local police station and I guarantee they can point you to an AA meeting within twenty minutes of where you are that's currently in session.
4) It's completely (no really, get this) anonymous. Private. Nothing you share leaves group. Your attendance isn't known unless you share it with someone outside of group.

AA has a 2.9 to 7% success rate, it is SLIGHTLY effective. People seeking alternative methods of treatment for alcoholism such as cognitive behavioral therapy and other have a MUCH higher rate of success at beating their addictions. And I'm sorry, but you must be very naive not to know that AA is a CHRISTIAN organization.

You've got a very, naive, one-sided view of alcoholism to begin with. Would you call people in France or Italy alcoholics because they have 1-2 bottles of wine a day with meals? No. The biggest problem with addictions and alcoholism is that most people and organizations support a VERY close-minded, one-sided definition of what an addiction is and who's an addict... instead of attacking the real problem.

[inthemidst]

This.

AA is a very underhanded, shady organization.

Ignoring the obvious oppressive religious affiliation, because that's all too easy to attack.

One of the things they purport is the mantra of "Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic" whereas numerous psychological studies on alcoholics have shown most alcoholics after seeking treatment (that's not AA) are able to return to occasional social drinking with out any major problems. Whereas, AA makes people believe if you even have ONE SIP of alcohol, you're a full-blown alcoholic again...causing people to snap and go right back to binging and then back to AA, therefore worsening the problem.

Making people think they're not in control of their own addictions and having to hand themselves over to a higher power doesn't help people, it just debilitates them and gives them even less confidence in themselves.

So, you've gone yourself to experience this?

[LucasJ218]

So, you've gone yourself to experience this?

No. He's clueless. He thinks all alcoholics have bad behavioral patterns when in reality alcoholism is a genetic disease that prevents those afflicted from saying no to additional drinks.

Alcoholics shouldn't ever pick up a drink again after quitting. Anyone who thinks it's okay for an alcoholic to socially drink is wrong. Alcoholism is a life-long disease, and that's not a concept AA invented... What a fucking moron.

[inthemidst]

No. He's clueless. He thinks all alcoholics have bad behavioral patterns when in reality alcoholism is a genetic disease that prevents those afflicted from saying no to additional drinks.

Alcoholics shouldn't ever pick up a drink again after quitting. Anyone who thinks it's okay for an alcoholic to socially drink is wrong. Alcoholism is a life-long disease, and that's not a concept AA invented... What a fucking moron.

I just wanted to make sure. Those who make outrageous comments about a certain subject whom have never experienced it themselves can only be described as foolish.

In all sincerity, how is everything since attending? Did you beat the addiction?

[yellowhouse]

Why go to AA? Just stop drinking, or get a therapist. Seems like you're more worried about your parents than actual drinking issues. Not sure if you would qualify as an alcoholic. If I were you, get a therapist...talk about your issues.

I think you might be missing the point? Not to be a dick.

[MonopolyMan]

this is a good step. if you feel like you need help, and you are making that first step, more power to you. with some help in the right direction you can fight this.

everyone lay the fuck off. people think drinking addictions are a joke, and they are not. maybe we should be supportive of our fellow ap.net user.

agreed...this kinda stuff is tough to deal with....especially when family is involved...you cant fix your parents man but you can fix yourself and thats most important. Good luck with everything :beerbros:

[Sic Transit Zeb]

I think you might be missing the point? Not to be a dick.

Hmm, well from what he said I don't think so. AA is for alcoholics not for people who are afraid to become one. He would want to go to something that would involve families affected by alcoholism, i.e. alanon or a therapist. AA is for people where their own drinking has negatively impacted many things in their life.

[perceptrons]

Don't say you're aware of how AA works and then repeat your idiotic comment. The emphasis isn't on religion but on realizing that you cannot rely on yourself and willpower alone to overcome the addiction you're facing. There is no such thing as a functioning alcoholic but the vast majority of alcoholics would claim they are one and that's the root of the problem.

The "higher power" isn't religion, necessarily. It's anything. You spout off misinformation that you've "read" or "watched" on the internet or other media without experiencing something for yourself as truth and you can discourage people from seeking help that really need it based on your own misconceptions.

Facts about AA.

1) It has worked and can work for millions the world over. Internationally. Multiple languages.
2) It's a "self-run" organization. There is no church or government council leading it. Members run it.
3) It's WIDELY available. Call your local police station and I guarantee they can point you to an AA meeting within twenty minutes of where you are that's currently in session.
4) It's completely (no really, get this) anonymous. Private. Nothing you share leaves group. Your attendance isn't known unless you share it with someone outside of group.
Again, I understand what AA is, and I know what alcoholism is, but thanks for repeating yourself. Since you enjoy repetition, let me state again, I said AA was oozing with religious overtones. If you knew what overtones were, perhaps you would stop repeating an argument against a point I did not make. Just wondering, if there aren't any religious overtones, then why is it that the courts ruled that it was against the establishment clause to force attendance?

Those facts are wonderful, but it doesn't change my opinion that there are better programs out there.

[punk89]

Why are so many people making fun of OP for seeking help? It's a brave and difficult thing to go through, especially if everyone is making fun of you. I'm happy you're seeking help. I wish you the best of luck.

[julietelizabeth]

No. He's clueless. He thinks all alcoholics have bad behavioral patterns when in reality alcoholism is a genetic disease that prevents those afflicted from saying no to additional drinks.


It's not a genetic disease. I think I get what you're trying to say, but you're saying it wrong. It is really not a genetic disease.

[Jet Set Paul]

Smoke pot
this.

[formatted.]

I've been to meetings in support of a friend, and my best piece of advice is to get a list of meetings in your area and try out several different times/locations. The age of participants, organization and style of the meeting, and just the overall dynamic can be very different from one group to the next, so the best thing to do is just check them out and see where you feel most comfortable.

From my limited experience, the people were all pleasant and welcoming. No one will ask you to talk if you don't want to, so don't be afraid to just go and observe.

I give you credit for exploring options to help yourself. Best of luck.

[Tim Lincecum]

It's not about finding God or even a god, just acknowledging that you yourself are not the be all and end all, that there are things beyond your own control with which we all wrestle.

OP, unless you are certain that you have reached a point where you cannot control your drinking without the help of a group like AA, I would first make a serious effort on your own. AA is a lifelong commitment that isn't really going to do much unless you are 100% committed to it 100% of the time. At your age, it might be worth seeing what you can make of it on your own before you make such a lasting commitment.

somebody probably fought you about this already but...

step 3 is "Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him"

step 6 is "Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character" step 7 is "Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings"

step 11 is "Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out."

and step 12 is "Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs"

CLEARY it is about religion and spirituality. 4 of these steps require you to admit there is a God and even step 5 (Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.) does too. So don't say that it isn't about God because nearly half the steps mention God in them

[Tim Lincecum]

It's not a genetic disease. I think I get what you're trying to say, but you're saying it wrong. It is really not a genetic disease.

yup, also people don't take into account how old people are when they start drinking. I personally think that has a much greater impact than genetics. My father is an alcoholic and started when he was 14. I had my first drink on my 19th birthday and I have no problems with alcohol. small sample size but I think its probably true for many other examples as well

[Tim Lincecum]

I do drink alot, in fact daily, and am looking to seek advice from others who have attended the program or know someone who has.

are you drunk now?

[Rubato]

No. He's clueless. He thinks all alcoholics have bad behavioral patterns when in reality alcoholism is a genetic disease that prevents those afflicted from saying no to additional drinks.

Alcoholics shouldn't ever pick up a drink again after quitting. Anyone who thinks it's okay for an alcoholic to socially drink is wrong. Alcoholism is a life-long disease, and that's not a concept AA invented... What a fucking moron.

Alright, not to be a dick here, but you're being incredibly close-minded and an asshole. "Alcoholism" is NOT a life-long disease, it is in fact NOT a disease under the criteria of the DSM-IV. Alcohol DEPENDENCE is a mental disorder, a substance abuse one, and is defined by alcohol having a QUANTIFIABLY and OBJECTIVELY negative impact on your life or your health. Being an alcoholic is NOT a disease, alcoholism is not a real fucking disease. Alcoholism is a word used to describe a particular pattern of drinking, it is not a disease, no one seems to make this distinction. Read the DSM-IV before you start calling everything a disease.

Moreso, there is NO substantial or conclusive evidence that identifies it is a genetic disease. You're more LIKELY to be an alcoholic if your blood relatives were, yes, but there is no identifiable genetic factor for being alcohol dependent, it's an immensely complicated number of things that contribute to alcoholism... alcohol is a very vague and misunderstood drug, with alcohol dependence even less understood.

There are NUMEROUS psychological studies that have PROVED the ability of people who were once addicted to alcohol to return to social drinking, so don't tell me that an alcoholic CAN'T ever have another drink... you're propagating a terribly one dimensional version of "Alcoholism" that does more harm than good.

No, I am not an alcoholic, but both of my parents were. They have since returned to being able to have just one or two beer on occasion, or go out for drinks every so often without any repercussions or resurgence of dependence. So please don't blindly attack me based on not being an alcoholic and assume I'm some foolish asshole with a vendetta against AA who's uninformed and has no real experience or notion of alcohol dependence, that's a pretty big fucking insult. Not only do I study drugs and psycho-pharmacology as a profession, but I also have a large family history of alcohol dependence, therefore giving me a pretty fucking good perspective on the whole issue.

Get back to me when you can give me a solid debate that doesn't involve narrowminded governmental and religious propaganda and misinformation and calling me a "fucking moron" because I challenge the ass-backwards, westernized concept of what "alcoholism" is. Pull your head out of your ass and read some of the scientific literature on the subject before you decide to be such a fucking martyr for the cause.

[Wake Up]

Alright, not to be a dick here, but you're being incredibly close-minded and an asshole. "Alcoholism" is NOT a life-long disease, it is in fact NOT a disease under the criteria of the DSM-IV. Alcohol DEPENDENCE is a mental disorder, a substance abuse one, and is defined by alcohol having a QUANTIFIABLY and OBJECTIVELY negative impact on your life or your health. Being an alcoholic is NOT a disease, alcoholism is not a real fucking disease. Alcoholism is a word used to describe a particular pattern of drinking, it is not a disease, no one seems to make this distinction. Read the DSM-IV before you start calling everything a disease.

Moreso, there is NO substantial or conclusive evidence that identifies it is a genetic disease. You're more LIKELY to be an alcoholic if your blood relatives were, yes, but there is no identifiable genetic factor for being alcohol dependent, it's an immensely complicated number of things that contribute to alcoholism... alcohol is a very vague and misunderstood drug, with alcohol dependence even less understood.

There are NUMEROUS psychological studies that have PROVED the ability of people who were once addicted to alcohol to return to social drinking, so don't tell me that an alcoholic CAN'T ever have another drink... you're propagating a terribly one dimensional version of "Alcoholism" that does more harm than good.

No, I am not an alcoholic, but both of my parents were. They have since returned to being able to have just one or two beer on occasion, or go out for drinks every so often without any repercussions or resurgence of dependence. So please don't blindly attack me based on not being an alcoholic and assume I'm some foolish asshole with a vendetta against AA who's uninformed and has no real experience or notion of alcohol dependence, that's a pretty big fucking insult. Not only do I study drugs and psycho-pharmacology as a profession, but I also have a large family history of alcohol dependence, therefore giving me a pretty fucking good perspective on the whole issue.

Get back to me when you can give me a solid debate that doesn't involve narrowminded governmental and religious propaganda and misinformation and calling me a "fucking moron" because I challenge the ass-backwards, westernized concept of what "alcoholism" is. Pull your head out of your ass and read some of the scientific literature on the subject before you decide to be such a fucking martyr for the cause.

There's always going to be a difference between science and experience. I am a recovering alcoholic and drug abuser. Once you decied to give up a drug you will always replace it for another. Most of the time the addiction you've traded is being addicted to a lackthereof. There's not been a day in recent memory where I haven't thought about drugs and made a conscious effort not to fall back into old patterns. There is no cure, there is only a change from one addiction to another.

[LucasJ218]

There's always going to be a difference between science and experience. I am a recovering alcoholic and drug abuser. Once you decied to give up a drug you will always replace it for another. Most of the time the addiction you've traded is being addicted to a lackthereof. There's not been a day in recent memory where I haven't thought about drugs and made a conscious effort not to fall back into old patterns. There is no cure, there is only a change from one addiction to another.

/thread

[perceptrons]

/thread
Surprising.

[LucasJ218]

I refuse to address all of your points because I can't even read the entire rant you threw at me right now - just don't wanna get caught up in the frustration before I go out.

But I do want to address your notion that my belief on the matter is based on "propaganda". My experiences aren't related to a 5TH grade DARE class - that program is a joke. My experiences have nothing to do with anything my government or school ever taught me. All that bullshit that tried to teach me that pot lead to coke and was in someway just as addictive was obviously just that - bullshit.

My experience comes from watching my closest friends and family deal with alcoholism. So many people that hit rock bottom, came back from it, could handle it "socially" or the "occasional drink" once in a while for a couple years before they found themselves in another rut. It's a very surreal experience to watch it happen to those around you when you don't have the issues they have.

I drink four or five times a year because I'm not a big fan of most alcohol (some people taste hops differently than others and the very bitter taste ruins beer for me). So no, I've never been an alcoholic to know what exactly that feels like exactly, or even much of a casual drinker. But I've watched it destroy aunts, uncles, cousins, and friends that I'll maintain for life. People that still hit the bar at last call every weekday night after they finish their night shift.

But this isn't about my beliefs on whether some people drink too much or not. It's not about the different amounts of alcohol different cultures consume. This is about whether or not AA is an effective treatment, and to argue it isn't is just fucking stupid. Just because you disagree with the methods doesn't mean they don't work or that they cause harm.

[perceptrons]

But this isn't about my beliefs on whether some people drink too much or not. It's not about the different amounts of alcohol different cultures consume. This is about whether or not AA is an effective treatment, and to argue it isn't is just fucking stupid. Just because you disagree with the methods doesn't mean they don't work or that they cause harm.
The fact that AA has helped people has no bearing on the assertion that other alcohol treatment programs are better. Disagreeing with the methods, and disagreeing with the methods because you think they are harmful are different things. I happen to be in the latter group in regards to AA.

[jco3]

Their are a lot of elitist folks in this thread. Just do your thing, and F da haterz.