Orca kills trainer at Sea World, Orlando

[caveBEAR]

Here's (http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/25/florida.seaworld.death/index.html?hpt=T2) the story.

Thoughts on the attack? Animals in captivity? Sea World's decision to keep the whale in question?

[Shakriel]

I think they need to stop using that specific whale, now has 3 deaths linked to it.

[caveBEAR]

I think they need to stop using that specific whale, now has 3 deaths linked to it.

They aren't going to get rid of him because he's their main breeding male. He's worth millions.

[SingledOut]

They aren't going to get rid of him because he's their main breeding male. He's worth millions.

no shit really?

[caveBEAR]

no shit really?

Was that meant to be taken sarcastically or did you not know this previously?

[SingledOut]

Was that meant to be taken sarcastically or did you not know this previously?

no dude im being serious haha, i had no idea he was their main breeding male, im at work and everyones wondering why they dont just set him free since hes been tied to what 2-3 deaths? but i mean that makes sense, he's gotta be worth a shit ton then!

[caveBEAR]

no dude im being serious haha, i had no idea he was their main breeding male, im at work and everyones wondering why they dont just set him free since hes been tied to what 2-3 deaths? but i mean that makes sense, he's gotta be worth a shit ton then!

Yeah. They said on the news was the the problem is he's aggressive, so they keep him isolated, which only adds to more aggression and not being able to make social(?) connections. They said that's probably the reason he grabbed the trainer...he was trying to play and literally has no idea how to do it. :shrug:

Captivity is teh suck.

[SingledOut]

Yeah. They said on the news was the the problem is he's aggressive, so they keep him isolated, which only adds to more aggression and not being able to make social(?) connections. They said that's probably the reason he grabbed the trainer...he was trying to play and literally has no idea how to do it. :shrug:

Captivity is teh suck.

Wow, that is insane. Such a shame that thats what he has to do now...I wonder if something else will be done if another fatality occurs...hey off subject but, saw one of your fav bands is NFG...my band is wrapping up their EP and im sending out three songs to people for feedback, if you;re bored or interested, its REAL pop punk, none of that shit thats garbage haha, if you want to hear em PM your email!

[brandino15]

Wow, that's terrible.

"While this incident remains the subject of an ongoing death investigation, there are no signs of foul play," the sheriff's statement said. "All evidence and witness statements indicate that the death was a tragic accident."

Really..? Are they suggesting there might have been a killer whale conspiracy or something..? :-|

[Theseventhson]

A killer whale killed? Holy shit!

[Alou]

I'm for endangered species being in some form of captivity so that they can be protected, but I am really against other common animals being put in Zoos and the what not.

As for the whale, Trainer was an idiot based on what I've read.

[catherinexhimel]

I don't think that animals should be in captivity for entertainment.

[Smash Adams]

Wow, that's terrible.

"While this incident remains the subject of an ongoing death investigation, there are no signs of foul play," the sheriff's statement said. "All evidence and witness statements indicate that the death was a tragic accident."

Really..? Are they suggesting there might have been a killer whale conspiracy or something..? :-|
No one ever suspects Shamu

But seriously I'm mixed since I'm 5 and love going to Sea World and the Zoo, but on the other hand I know it's morally wrong and the way they treat their animals is horrible

[deFobbed14yrs]

death by whale........wtf

[GuitarGuy]

Who would have guessed that a killer whale might be a little dangerous?

[GeeBee]

I'm always perplexed when people like this and Steve Irwin make a living teasing animals, and then people are surprised when they get killed by them.

[Scrandon]

Killer Whales kill? Whaaaaaa?

[FlashTaco]

I'm for endangered species being in some form of captivity so that they can be protected, but I am really against other common animals being put in Zoos and the what not.


Exactly. These animals should not be forced to do shows everyday.

They should only be in captivity for research or if the animal couldn't survive on it's own in the wild.

[sdbrown]

I'm for endangered species being in some form of captivity so that they can be protected, but I am really against other common animals being put in Zoos and the what not.

As for the whale, Trainer was an idiot based on what I've read.
The trainer was one of the best in the field. What are you reading that gave you the opinion she was an idiot?
I don't think that animals should be in captivity for entertainment.


But seriously I'm mixed since I'm 5 and love going to Sea World and the Zoo, but on the other hand I know it's morally wrong and the way they treat their animals is horrible
My best friend works at Sea World. She sent out an email this morning, figured you all might be interested in what she had to say:
"...I do not know what happened yesterday, nor do I know what the trainer was doing/feeling, nor what the whale was doing/feeling. No one does, and no one will for sure. But I do know that you cannot begin to judge a zoological park unless you have seen the inner workings. While the news and certain animal rights groups will tell you that all marine mammals should be freed- I encourage you to think before you believe what is being said. One article states that Keiko- otherwise known as Free Willy- went from swimming in a small, cramped tank to roaming the open ocean with his fellow whales. I beg you to please research what actually happened to Keiko. He was a wild caught baby, trained and made a star by humans, later released to the wild and died shortly after. There are numerous accounts that say he followed people, for companionship and food, and returned to sites where humans cared for him. As for his social life with other whales? Pretty difficult for a lone male, raised and dependent on humans, to make his way with strangers in a matriarchal whale society...

The news would also tell you that the animals are stuck in small "cages" or "tanks" and made to do tricks for food. They are "stressed" and "depressed" and lash out at us humans because of this. The company is only "in it for the money". Yes, there are plenty of road side circuses that mistreat animals. There are some bad zoos out there. I can tell you firsthand that the amount of love, and care, and money that goes into maintaining the health and well being of the animals in a reputable park such as Sea World- cannot even be measured by human means. People, such as myself, devote our lives to working a rather unglamorous and dirty job, simply so the animals can be as "happy" as possible. The money that is poured into their care, and also research and conservation efforts WORLDWIDE is more than probably all of our paychecks combined."

[caveBEAR]

As for the whale, Trainer was an idiot based on what I've read.

:-| Yeah, I'm going to need to see what you read, because that sounds like horseshit compared to everything else I've heard.

[Amour For Liars]

i dont care, good riddence to that seaworld scum bag. Normally I dont feel inclinced to say something so disrespectful but..

My Biology teacher made us watch a movie on illegal fishing and whaling. Sea World pays and sponsors fishing companys and organizations that poach and just fuck shit in the ocean up, because Sea Worlds Logic is " This is bussiness. We Give more help to the people fucking shit up than the Conservation Organizations. This way the dickpop blowers who kill and endanger marine life will slowly win. So when people cant go to the ocean for marine life 40 years from now, atleast they will have good old seaworld. Cha Ching$$$"

The worlds fucked up now a days.

[Smash Adams]

The trainer was one of the best in the field. What are you reading that gave you the opinion she was an idiot?



My best friend works at Sea World. She sent out an email this morning, figured you all might be interested in what she had to say:
"...I do not know what happened yesterday, nor do I know what the trainer was doing/feeling, nor what the whale was doing/feeling. No one does, and no one will for sure. But I do know that you cannot begin to judge a zoological park unless you have seen the inner workings. While the news and certain animal rights groups will tell you that all marine mammals should be freed- I encourage you to think before you believe what is being said. One article states that Keiko- otherwise known as Free Willy- went from swimming in a small, cramped tank to roaming the open ocean with his fellow whales. I beg you to please research what actually happened to Keiko. He was a wild caught baby, trained and made a star by humans, later released to the wild and died shortly after. There are numerous accounts that say he followed people, for companionship and food, and returned to sites where humans cared for him. As for his social life with other whales? Pretty difficult for a lone male, raised and dependent on humans, to make his way with strangers in a matriarchal whale society...

The news would also tell you that the animals are stuck in small "cages" or "tanks" and made to do tricks for food. They are "stressed" and "depressed" and lash out at us humans because of this. The company is only "in it for the money". Yes, there are plenty of road side circuses that mistreat animals. There are some bad zoos out there. I can tell you firsthand that the amount of love, and care, and money that goes into maintaining the health and well being of the animals in a reputable park such as Sea World- cannot even be measured by human means. People, such as myself, devote our lives to working a rather unglamorous and dirty job, simply so the animals can be as "happy" as possible. The money that is poured into their care, and also research and conservation efforts WORLDWIDE is more than probably all of our paychecks combined."


I'm glad to hear the other side of the story, and also there's constant medical care at zoos etc that doesn't exist in the wild

[Amour For Liars]

I'm always perplexed when people like this and Steve Irwin make a living teasing animals, and then people are surprised when they get killed by them.
Dont talk shit on Stever Irwin, his methods were far more practical then what most Zoos use. He was a professional who did wonders for conservation. Besides hes been my avatar for 2 months now. I dont even know whos is in yours

[Simulcast]

i dont care, good riddence to that seaworld scum bag. Normally I dont feel inclinced to say something so disrespectful but..

My Biology teacher made us watch a movie on illegal fishing and whaling. Sea World pays and sponsors fishing companys and organizations that poach and just fuck shit in the ocean up, because Sea Worlds Logic is " This is bussiness. We Give more help to the people fucking shit up than the Conservation Organizations. This way the dickpop blowers who kill and endanger marine life will slowly win. So when people cant go to the ocean for marine life 40 years from now, atleast they will have good old seaworld. Cha Ching$$$"

The worlds fucked up now a days.


You sound like a very stupid person.

[Simulcast]

The trainer was one of the best in the field. What are you reading that gave you the opinion she was an idiot?



My best friend works at Sea World. She sent out an email this morning, figured you all might be interested in what she had to say:
"...I do not know what happened yesterday, nor do I know what the trainer was doing/feeling, nor what the whale was doing/feeling. No one does, and no one will for sure. But I do know that you cannot begin to judge a zoological park unless you have seen the inner workings. While the news and certain animal rights groups will tell you that all marine mammals should be freed- I encourage you to think before you believe what is being said. One article states that Keiko- otherwise known as Free Willy- went from swimming in a small, cramped tank to roaming the open ocean with his fellow whales. I beg you to please research what actually happened to Keiko. He was a wild caught baby, trained and made a star by humans, later released to the wild and died shortly after. There are numerous accounts that say he followed people, for companionship and food, and returned to sites where humans cared for him. As for his social life with other whales? Pretty difficult for a lone male, raised and dependent on humans, to make his way with strangers in a matriarchal whale society...

The news would also tell you that the animals are stuck in small "cages" or "tanks" and made to do tricks for food. They are "stressed" and "depressed" and lash out at us humans because of this. The company is only "in it for the money". Yes, there are plenty of road side circuses that mistreat animals. There are some bad zoos out there. I can tell you firsthand that the amount of love, and care, and money that goes into maintaining the health and well being of the animals in a reputable park such as Sea World- cannot even be measured by human means. People, such as myself, devote our lives to working a rather unglamorous and dirty job, simply so the animals can be as "happy" as possible. The money that is poured into their care, and also research and conservation efforts WORLDWIDE is more than probably all of our paychecks combined."




This was a good read. Thanks.

[caveBEAR]

i dont care, good riddence to that seaworld scum bag. Normally I dont feel inclinced to say something so disrespectful but..

My Biology teacher made us watch a movie on illegal fishing and whaling. Sea World pays and sponsors fishing companys and organizations that poach and just fuck shit in the ocean up, because Sea Worlds Logic is " This is bussiness. We Give more help to the people fucking shit up than the Conservation Organizations. This way the dickpop blowers who kill and endanger marine life will slowly win. So when people cant go to the ocean for marine life 40 years from now, atleast they will have good old seaworld. Cha Ching$$$"

The worlds fucked up now a days.

You do realize the trainer who died had absolutely nothing to do with all the gripes you have with SeaWorld?

[caveBEAR]

Dont talk shit on Stever Irwin, his methods were far more practical then what most Zoos use. He was a professional who did wonders for conservation. Besides hes been my avatar for 2 months now. I dont even know whos is in yours

Sea World does wonders for conservation, too. As a matter of fact, I'd be willing to bet that Sea World funnels more money into conservation efforts than Irwin did.

[GeeBee]

Dont talk shit on Stever Irwin, his methods were far more practical then what most Zoos use. He was a professional who did wonders for conservation. Besides hes been my avatar for 2 months now. I dont even know whos is in yours

I don't care if he was mother theresa. He provoked animals for entertainment. He reaped what he sowed.

[Alou]

:-| Yeah, I'm going to need to see what you read, because that sounds like horseshit compared to everything else I've heard.

I only read two or three articles and all them mentioned the whale was known to be aggressive. One also said she wasn't taking neccessary precautions. I'll try and post the links if I get a chance. Going to eat right now though.

[Hay]

idk how i feel about this but it reminded me of this movie http://thecovemovie.com/

[Amour For Liars]

You sound like a very stupid person.
I dont have any form of spell check so if your stabbing at my typing. Go for it.

But I've worked first hand in many different places on volunteer work (St.Louis Zoo, St.l Aquarium, Chicago Aquarium) and the amount of revanue generated by visitors goes in many facilities every year. Because as much as it all it about conservation and preserving wildlife, it also has alot to do with money.. You know the little paper thing that makes the world go around. Its this simple.

Exotic pet trade, blackmarket poaching for food, unconventional medicine and clothing shrinks the numbers of animals in the wild. the rate at which most animals repopulate to normal levels after we kill/collect them can take 10's of years, and thats counting the almost unheard of exception we leave shit alone. So on top of that think about the logging, building for human living space, the rainforest and coral reefs and all these other eco systems we fuck up for what ever our purposes are. Theirs really no hope for alot of it. SeaWorld, big zoos, private collections, human built safari and nature parks which make money, and as I said earliar alot of it; know this. Maybe most average day employees dont think about it. But the big people working at, and the invester's in these establishments know. The proof is in the numbers along elsewhere , esp the uprising profit of sweet green cash. This is something that happens everyday. Just an example scenario. SeaWorld wants to buy a 5 mile stretch of beach for some project or park they want to sponsor. Mr Hotel Tycoon wants it for his casino/waterpark/hotel thing. SeaWorlds budget is 3.5 million and Mr. Hiltons is 35M. So now the only option is for seaworld to get goverment help to buy this plot of land. Normally the goverment could say the area needs to be a reserved for nature and totally shut Mr. Hilton out of the equasion but that wont happen because SeaWorld will probally make little to no profit and not attract many people annually. (which explains the 3.5M budget) But Senator McAsshole and Governor Greedybitch find out if they decline SeaWorlds request for the purchase of the ocean land, The Hilton megastructure will make the state 45M a year in taxes. And possilby put money in their own pockets if they were that corrupt. So this gives Seaworld less oppurtunities to expand outwards, forcing them to expand inwards. By that I mean, if sea world and zoos cant save and buy land and other resources they need outside of the park. Then they might as well make money funding the machine thats winning, and has chosen the fate further down the road.

[Simulcast]

I dont have any form of spell check so if your stabbing at my typing. Go for it.

But I've worked first hand in many different places on volunteer work (St.Louis Zoo, St.l Aquarium, Chicago Aquarium) and the amount of revanue generated by visitors goes in many facilities every year. Because as much as it all it about conservation and preserving wildlife, it also has alot to do with money.. You know the little paper thing that makes the world go around. Its this simple.

Exotic pet trade, blackmarket poaching for food, unconventional medicine and clothing shrinks the numbers of animals in the wild. the rate at which most animals repopulate to normal levels after we kill/collect them can take 10's of years, and thats counting the almost unheard of exception we leave shit alone. So on top of that think about the logging, building for human living space, the rainforest and coral reefs and all these other eco systems we fuck up for what ever our purposes are. Theirs really no hope for alot of it. SeaWorld, big zoos, private collections, human built safari and nature parks which make money, and as I said earliar alot of it; know this. Maybe most average day employees dont think about it. But the big people working at, and the invester's in these establishments know. The proof is in the numbers along elsewhere , esp the uprising profit of sweet green cash. This is something that happens everyday. Just an example scenario. SeaWorld wants to buy a 5 mile stretch of beach for some project or park they want to sponsor. Mr Hotel Tycoon wants it for his casino/waterpark/hotel thing. SeaWorlds budget is 3.5 million and Mr. Hiltons is 35M. So now the only option is for seaworld to get goverment help to buy this plot of land. Normally the goverment could say the area needs to be a reserved for nature and totally shut Mr. Hilton out of the equasion but that wont happen because SeaWorld will probally make little to no profit and not attract many people annually. (which explains the 3.5M budget) But Senator McAsshole and Governor Greedybitch find out if they decline SeaWorlds request for the purchase of the ocean land, The Hilton megastructure will make the state 45M a year in taxes. And possilby put money in their own pockets if they were that corrupt. So this gives Seaworld less oppurtunities to expand outwards, forcing them to expand inwards. By that I mean, if sea world and zoos cant save and buy land and other resources they need outside of the park. Then they might as well make money funding the machine thats winning, and has chosen the fate further down the road.

I don't care about any of that. I was basing what I said on your opening statement, which was as follows:


i dont care, good riddence to that seaworld scum bag. Normally I dont feel inclinced to say something so disrespectful but..

[Amour For Liars]

I don't care about any of that. I was basing what I said on your opening statement, which was as follows:
Thats how I feel. Emotional connection is void. The loss of human life to me is no different then the loss of a bug life. Maybe less important sometimes but thats me :wave:

[caveBEAR]

Thats how I feel. Emotional connection is void. The loss of human life to me is no different then the loss of a bug life. Maybe less important sometimes but thats me :wave:

Cool story, bro.

[Machu505]

I know from 28 Days Later that animal rights activists will be the death of us all.

[Simulcast]

I know from 28 Days Later that animal rights activists will be the death of us all.

+1. Keep those diseases in their cages.

[caveBEAR]

I know from 28 Days Later that animal rights activists will be the death of us all.

:lol:

[whenyourearound]

I just saw this on this news before. Sea World got the whale in 92 and he's had a few problems since then. They use him for breeding purposes and I think they said they're still going to use him in the shows. I think they should take him out of shows and just keep him for the bredding purposes only.

[caveBEAR]

I just saw this on this news before. Sea World got the whale in 92 and he's had a few problems since then. They use him for breeding purposes and I think they said they're still going to use him in the shows. I think they should take him out of shows and just keep him for the bredding purposes only.

He's the 'splashing' whale because of his larger size.

[whenyourearound]

He's the 'splashing' whale because of his larger size.

Ahhh I see, good to know.

[Smash Adams]

Thats how I feel. Emotional connection is void. The loss of human life to me is no different then the loss of a bug life. Maybe less important sometimes but thats me :wave:
Are you a fan of Huey Lewis and the News by any chance?

[emilymarie100]

"that the whale approached the glass side of the 35-foot-deep tank at Shamu Stadium, jumped up and grabbed Brancheau by her waist, shaking her so violently that her shoe came off."

Holy shit, why do they have him anywhere near the public? I can see he's there for breeding purposes but why can't they just keep him isolated completely from the public? I mean he is a killer whale, shouldn't that have tipped anyone off?

Fuck I hate SeaWorld/Zoo's.

[GeeBee]

Going to eat right now though.

That's what the whale said, too...

[caveBEAR]

"that the whale approached the glass side of the 35-foot-deep tank at Shamu Stadium, jumped up and grabbed Brancheau by her waist, shaking her so violently that her shoe came off."

Holy shit, why do they have him anywhere near the public? I can see he's there for breeding purposes but why can't they just keep him isolated completely from the public? I mean he is a killer whale, shouldn't that have tipped anyone off?

Fuck I hate SeaWorld/Zoo's.

The orca thought it was playing. Think of how you play with a dog. Now imagine the dog is over 20 feet long. The orca wasn't trying to kill her, it ended up drowning her. This isn't exactly how orcas kill things, go watch footage of them attacking seals.

[caveBEAR]

They are dolphins, by the way, not whales.

[GeeBee]

The orca thought it was playing. Think of how you play with a dog. Now imagine the dog is over 20 feet long. The orca wasn't trying to kill her, it ended up drowning her. This isn't exactly how orcas kill things, go watch footage of them attacking seals.

Same thing with rabbits. It's not malicious. Sometimes they just snap and people die.

[caveBEAR]

Same thing with rabbits. It's not malicious. Sometimes they just snap and people die.

Only in Medieval England my friend.




RUN AWAY, RUN AWAY!!!

[GeeBee]

They are dolphins, by the way, not whales.
Whales aren't fish, they're mammals. So suck it.

(Sorry, I've been drinking in honor of this fine whale tormentor, and I've taken it way too far.)

[GeeBee]

Only in Medieval England my friend.




RUN AWAY, RUN AWAY!!!

:lol: You win, my friend. Ne'er do ye disappoint.

[Machu505]

They are dolphins, by the way, not whales.

And you should thus feel ashamed you ever referred to them as whales.

[emilymarie100]

The orca thought it was playing. Think of how you play with a dog. Now imagine the dog is over 20 feet long. The orca wasn't trying to kill her, it ended up drowning her. This isn't exactly how orcas kill things, go watch footage of them attacking seals.


Oh ha I actually typed something about him playing, not meaning to kill anybody but obviously if this is how he plays he shouldn't be around the public, it's not his fault is what I'm trying to say.

[caveBEAR]

And you should thus feel ashamed you ever referred to them as whales.

I am ashamed, sir...I am.


But you'll notice no usage of the word 'whale' in the thread title...

[caveBEAR]

Oh ha I actually typed something about him playing, not meaning to kill anybody but obviously if this is how he plays he shouldn't be around the public, it's not his fault is what I'm trying to say.

She wasn't the public. The public isn't allowed near him. She was a trainer...I'm pretty sure she was aware this could happen.

[Alou]

That's what the whale said, too...

Haha.

[emilymarie100]

She wasn't the public. The public isn't allowed near him. She was a trainer...I'm pretty sure she was aware this could happen.


"most likely died from multiple traumatic injuries and drowning after one of the park's killer whales pulled her into a pool behind Shamu Stadium,"

Ah Okay that's why that didn't make any sense to me. My bad.

[ArtForLovers]

I'm always perplexed when people like this and Steve Irwin make a living teasing animals, and then people are surprised when they get killed by them.
Exactly. Imagine some creature bigger than you (or sometimes not) poking you and "training" you to jump up and catch a fish. I'm be pissed to.

[caveBEAR]

Exactly. Imagine some creature bigger than you (or sometimes not) poking you and "training" you to jump up and catch a fish. I'm be pissed to.

That's misleading. Orcas like fish and jumping much more than people do.

[0s0]

I'm a huge carnivore, etc., etc., so I'm no animal rights activist, but I think that SeaWorld is just a sick idea. These animals swim ocean to ocean, and they are in this small, small pool. Deng.

They aren't going to get rid of him because he's their main breeding male. He's worth millions.

Yeah for reals. And he didn't kill the trainer, he was just "playing."

[Metal Now]

Wow, that's terrible.

"While this incident remains the subject of an ongoing death investigation, there are no signs of foul play," the sheriff's statement said. "All evidence and witness statements indicate that the death was a tragic accident."

Really..? Are they suggesting there might have been a killer whale conspiracy or something..? :-|

This is hilarious.

[Whereisreggie]

Here's my take on it. The only thing I agree with Sea World on is that they have a great rehabilitation program and continue to educate people on animal conservation. But once they put in rides, and practically everything else they have, they are no longer a zoological park. They are an amusement park. We know dolphins and whales are smart. We don't need to teach them tricks, they learn naturally. For example, orcas throw their prey in the air all the time in the wild, play with it, nudge it, etc. This situation is no different than an orca toying with a sea lion, besides the sadness of the trainer's lost. In regards to the trainer, she wasn't an idiot. She actually was a veterinarian and was the most experienced of the trainers. To think all those years at vet school are no gone is horrible. But we have to take in consideration that man is not invincible. Wrong gestures, movements, display can easily set an animal off. Yes it is extremely sad on both parts, the animal and the trainer. Plus, all the faculty at Sea World know their animals very well. They know each animal have certain traits and characteristics about them that can make them dangerous. But we will never know FULLY what sets an animal off. Orcas are relatively docile but are curious. This particular one wanted to play and viewed the trainer as a toy, not food.

[caveBEAR]

Here's my take on it. The only thing I agree with Sea World on is that they have a great rehabilitation program and continue to educate people on animal conservation. But once they put in rides, and practically everything else they have, they are no longer a zoological park. They are an amusement park. We know dolphins and whales are smart. We don't need to teach them tricks, they learn naturally. For example, orcas throw their prey in the air all the time in the wild, play with it, nudge it, etc. This situation is no different than an orca toying with a sea lion, besides the sadness of the trainer's lost. In regards to the trainer, she wasn't an idiot. She actually was a veterinarian and was the most experienced of the trainers. To think all those years at vet school are no gone is horrible. But we have to take in consideration that man is not invincible. Wrong gestures, movements, display can easily set an animal off. Yes it is extremely sad on both parts, the animal and the trainer. Plus, all the faculty at Sea World know their animals very well. They know each animal have certain traits and characteristics about them that can make them dangerous. But we will never know FULLY what sets an animal off. Orcas are relatively docile but are curious. This particular one wanted to play and viewed the trainer as a toy, not food.

:mellow:

[The Indigo]

I'm in favor of killing the whale.

[Whereisreggie]

:mellow:

I get into animal vs. people debates. Sorry lolz

[rawesome]

I'm in favor of killing the whale.
Why?

[Healthy Scratch]

i'm not sure if thats the picture you were going for, but that particular one sums up my feelings rather well.

[The Indigo]

Why?
He's an animal that's killed at least two people, maybe three, and they're keeping him just because he's worth a lot of money. I'm not saying they should necessarily destroy him, but he should at least be released to die in the wild.

..
I see.

[caveBEAR]

'Don't hurt ze tiger...'

[HometownHero]

Either set the whale free or put it down

[Chromefox]

They're endangered, you can't just kill them off. :-d

The whale needs to remain in captivity in order to breed and attempt to replenish some numbers, and while I don't know much about whales, I'm fairly certain you can't just set them free and expect them to find a pod and know how to migrate and shit.

Just stop exploiting them instead. I'd probably kill a person every couple of years if they stuffed me in a little pool and made me dance for fish too.

[RushAndAPush]

I can't believe some people would consider killing the animal.

[Machu505]

I can't believe some people would consider killing the animal.

Got to punish the thing somehow. :rolleyes:

It seems like the negligence of the woman killed isn't being considered at all.

[Machu505]

He's an animal that's killed at least two people, maybe three, and they're keeping him just because he's worth a lot of money. I'm not saying they should necessarily destroy him, but he should at least be released to die in the wild.


I see.

Seems like the pic's been changed.

[open mind]

orcas have NEVER killed a human in the wild......this one has killed 3......which might be a sign that this whale should be released into the wild and given a chance to find a pod.

[open mind]

They're endangered, you can't just kill them off. :-d

The whale needs to remain in captivity in order to breed and attempt to replenish some numbers, and while I don't know much about whales, I'm fairly certain you can't just set them free and expect them to find a pod and know how to migrate and shit.

Just stop exploiting them instead. I'd probably kill a person every couple of years if they stuffed me in a little pool and made me dance for fish too.

released orcas (even those who've been held in captivity their entire lives) have been shown to have an amazing ability to integrate into a pod.

orcas are incredibly intelligent and sociable animals that have continuously displayed an incredible ability to adapt to their surroundings.

[J.C.]

I'd probably kill a person every couple of years if they stuffed me in a little pool and made me dance for fish too.

YOU AND WHAT ARMY

[The Indigo]

Got to punish the thing somehow. :rolleyes:

It seems like the negligence of the woman killed isn't being considered at all.
What negligence? All the reports I've read say the trainer was one of the most experienced at the park.

[Machu505]

What negligence? All the reports I've read say the trainer was one of the most experienced at the park.
Being in the water with an animal not trained to be in the water with humans.

[The Indigo]

Being in the water with an animal not trained to be in the water with humans.
She wasn't in the water. The orca pulled her in. Also, how do you figure the animal wasn't trained to be in the water with humans? It was a show; the orca had to have training to perform, which includes being in the water with humans.

[paper halo]

She wasn't in the water. The orca pulled her in. Also, how do you figure the animal wasn't trained to be in the water with humans? It was a show; the orca had to have training to perform, which includes being in the water with humans.

False. Try reading the article:

The 22-foot-long whale was "not accustomed to people being in his tank" and "wouldn't have realized he was dealing with a very fragile human being," Solomons said at the time.

Because of Tilikum's history, as well as his size, trainers did not get into the water with him, Tompkins told CNN. Specific procedures were in place for working with him, he said, although "obviously, we need to evaluate those protocols."

[caveBEAR]

False. Try reading the article:

Reading comprehension...they just don't teach it at school much any more, do they? :rolleyes:

[Machu505]

She wasn't in the water. The orca pulled her in. Also, how do you figure the animal wasn't trained to be in the water with humans? It was a show; the orca had to have training to perform, which includes being in the water with humans.
Funny story, you see, the person that was supposed to train the orca to get along with humans was the last person it killed.

[GeeBee]

Funny story, you see, the person that was supposed to train the orca to get along with humans was the last person it killed.

Almost like Yin and Yang...which oddly look like Orcas, as well...

[Machu505]

Almost like Yin and Yang...which oddly look like Orcas, as well...

I call them the pandas of the sea.

[caveBEAR]

I call them the pandas of the sea.

:lol:

[<*)))><]

What a shame but it makes me remember when I would play with my cat and he'd get very excited and try to bite me because he thought it was fun. He never tried to hurt me but he got blood some times now I'm happy he isn't 20ft long because instead of a little nibble it would of been death. If we learned anything from this that they should try and shrink big animals so this way humans will be unkillible by anything other then humans.

[The Indigo]

False. Try reading the article:
Sensationalist infotainment channels' websites aren't really my "go to" source for accurate news.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8535618.stm

Jim Solomons, a spokesman for the Orange County Sheriff's Office, said early accounts indicated she could have slipped and fallen into the tank.

Witnesses said the orca had jumped and grabbed Dawn Brancheau by the waist from a poolside platform before dragging her underwater.
Chuck Tompkins, SeaWorld parks' head of animal training, was quoted by Reuters news agency saying: "She was rubbing the killer whale's head, and [it] grabbed her and pulled her in."
At that point, she said, the whale "took off really fast, and then he came back around to the glass, jumped up, grabbed the trainer by the waist and started shaking her violently. The last thing we saw was her shoe floating."
Audience member Eldon Skaggs told AP news agency the whale had "pulled her under and started swimming around with her".
Oh, how negligent of her to let herself be dragged underwater by a six ton animal. Use some common sense, people; why would a trainer with "16 years of experience" knowingly get into a tank with an orca that wasn't trained to swim with people and who had already been involved in at least one human death? How likely is that?

[TangledUp]

Sea World's decision to keep the whale in question?
With the risk of sounding insensitive, I fully support Sea World's decision. It's not the whale's fault. It's like when tigers attack trainers, or birds of prey, etc. They're just being wild animals. When you have a wild animal in captivity and have human interaction, that shit's not natural, and they run the risk of this happening every time.

[paper halo]

Sensationalist infotainment channels' websites aren't really my "go to" source for accurate news.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8535618.stm


Oh, how negligent of her to let herself be dragged underwater by a six ton animal. Use some common sense, people; why would a trainer with "16 years of experience" knowingly get into a tank with an orca that wasn't trained to swim with people and who had already been involved in at least one human death? How likely is that?

The article you just quoted mentioned the previous death, and you're saying that didn't actually happen?

How about you employ some common sense, it's a massive wild animal, no amount of training is going to prevent occasional incidents like this.

[The Indigo]

The article you just quoted mentioned the previous death, and you're saying that didn't actually happen?

How about you employ some common sense, it's a massive wild animal, no amount of training is going to prevent occasional incidents like this.
I'm saying the death has nothing to do with any kind of negligence from the trainer. And by the logic of your second statement, I maintain my position that the orca in question (or any "massive wild animal" for that matter) should not remain at SeaWorld.

[The Indigo]

With the risk of sounding insensitive, I fully support Sea World's decision. It's not the whale's fault. It's like when tigers attack trainers, or birds of prey, etc. They're just being wild animals. When you have a wild animal in captivity and have human interaction, that shit's not natural, and they run the risk of this happening every time.
Then why is everyone here so in favor of keeping a wild animal in captivity?

[Machu505]

The animal will die if released.

[paper halo]

I'm saying the death has nothing to do with any kind of negligence from the trainer. And by the logic of your second statement, I maintain my position that the orca in question (or any "massive wild animal" for that matter) should not remain at SeaWorld.

I never implied it had anything to do with negligence on the trainer's part. You also advocated killing the animal, or releasing it with the assumption that it would not survive in the wild. We are in agreement that such animals should not be held in captivity for the amusement of humans.

[The Indigo]

Still, keeping an especially aggressive orca in captivity (where it's lifespan is already dramatically shortened) will only run the risk of more human deaths.

[The Indigo]

I never implied it had anything to do with negligence on the trainer's part. You also advocated killing the animal, or releasing it with the assumption that it would not survive in the wild. We are in agreement that such animals should not be held in captivity for the amusement of humans.
Yup. I think where we differ is that I feel like releasing/putting the animal down would be better in the long run. They're keeping him for breeding purposes, to perpetuate the captivity of more orcas, condemning them to a stressful life in a fish bowl. It'll lead to more aggression and more deaths. I honestly wouldn't mind if SeaWorld shut down completely, continued to take care of the animals it had until they all passed away, and then having the employees go find real careers in conservation.

[TangledUp]

Then why is everyone here so in favor of keeping a wild animal in captivity?
I'm not in favor of it. So not everyone.

This whale, however, most likely needs to stay in captivity. If it was born in captivity, who knows if it could survive in the wild.

I, too, am not in favor of wild animals being in captivity. I know that in some cases, it has served a good purpose (ie, protecting endangered species), but breeding orcas at Sea World just to entertain humans isn't right, I don't think.

[caveBEAR]

Still, keeping an especially aggressive orca in captivity (where it's lifespan is already dramatically shortened) will only run the risk of more human deaths.

They used this same 'loss of life' argument to shut down N.A.S.A.



Oh, wait...

[The Indigo]

They used this same 'loss of life' argument to shut down N.A.S.A.



Oh, wait...
NASA =/= SeaWorld. Bad comparison.

[Machu505]

NASA is SeaWorld.

[flask]

NASA is SeaWorld.

i lol'd


more like serial killer whale amirite?
was that joke already made?
whatever im out.

[caveBEAR]

NASA =/= SeaWorld. Bad comparison.

I think it fits quite nicely. N.A.S.A. has experts who put themselves into possibly dangerous situations in order to further research, science, and hypothetically, the human race. Sometimes things go wrong, but we don't abandon everything, because those lost knew the risk they were in. SeaWorld, as well, is actively engaged in research and science towards marine life, including conservation efforts. SeaWorld is able to continue these actions due to ticket sales which are fueled by shows like this. The trainer was a vet, and very qualified, so she knew the risks. SeaWorld doesn't stop what they're doing because of it, the risks are there, everyone is aware, and the end result is supposed to outweigh what has occurred here.

[<*)))><]

Now that we are talking about whales and NASA it reminds me of southpark. Im pretty sure the writers predicted this....

[The Indigo]

I think it fits quite nicely. N.A.S.A. has experts who put themselves into possibly dangerous situations in order to further research, science, and hypothetically, the human race. Sometimes things go wrong, but we don't abandon everything, because those lost knew the risk they were in. SeaWorld, as well, is actively engaged in research and science towards marine life, including conservation efforts. SeaWorld is able to continue these actions due to ticket sales which are fueled by shows like this. The trainer was a vet, and very qualified, so she knew the risks. SeaWorld doesn't stop what they're doing because of it, the risks are there, everyone is aware, and the end result is supposed to outweigh what has occurred here.
I disagree. Everyone working at NASA is willingly involved in the processes that go on there. Do you really think the animals at SeaWorld would choose to be held in captivity if they had the choice? For all of SeaWorld's supposed "conservation" efforts, the animals living there, particularly the orcas, are "inherently unsuitable" (http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20100225005767&newsLang=en) to live in such conditions. The humans NASA puts in space choose to be there. That's the main flaw in your comparison; there really isn't a well-backed moral argument against NASA (note, moral =/= financial, in case you wanted to keep trying to justify your comparison rather than attending to the argument at hand).

[caveBEAR]

I disagree. Everyone working at NASA is willingly involved in the processes that go on there. Do you really think the animals at SeaWorld would choose to be held in captivity if they had the choice? For all of SeaWorld's supposed "conservation" efforts, the animals living there, particularly the orcas, are "inherently unsuitable" (http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20100225005767&newsLang=en) to live in such conditions. The humans NASA puts in space choose to be there. That's the main flaw in your comparison; there really isn't a well-backed moral argument against NASA (note, moral =/= financial, in case you wanted to keep trying to justify your comparison rather than attending to the argument at hand).

tl:dr



I really don't care.

[The Indigo]

tl:dr



I really don't care.
K.

[open mind]

The animal will die if released.

perhaps....but i'd bet on it finding a pod.....orcas are in the top 5 in terms of intelligent species on this planet......and they've shown a remarkable ability to adapt to enviormental and social habitats.

[open mind]

all animal park bullshit aside the majority of released orcas do make it.