The Official 2010 UK Election Thread

[alice+interiors]

Since there is a maximum of 3 months left when it can be called, and this one is much more worth discussing than the 2005 one.. it will be especially interesting to chart how the BNP fare in this election, and it is also likely that we will see a change of party/leader at the helm.

Discuss.

edit: The election is now set for Tuesday 6th May.

thanks to paper_halo for the following:

Some useful links for the Brits here, and anyone else interested:

Actually British?

Register to vote (http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/register_to_vote/elections_2010.aspx)

Parties:

Labour (http://www2.labour.org.uk/manifesto-splash)
Conservatives (http://www.conservatives.com/)
Liberal Democrats (http://www.libdems.org.uk/splash.aspx)
Green Party (http://www.greenparty.org.uk/)
UKIP (http://www.ukip.org/)
BNP (http://bnp.org.uk/)

News sites:

BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/)
Politics.co.uk (http://www.politics.co.uk/)
Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/)
Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/)
Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/)
Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/)

Other useful stuff:

Voteforpolicies (http://voteforpolicies.org.uk/) - Useful site if you're unsure of the policies of each party, and who you should vote for.

Okay..... and go.

[aerofan11]

I reckon BNP will get a lot of votes. Even though, they are well hated in the media (and by me :-)). A lot of my friends have said they want them to win.

[paper halo]

I reckon BNP will get a lot of votes. Even though, they are well hated in the media (and by me :-)). A lot of my friends have said they want them to win.

They won't. They'll get more than they should, but they won't do well overall. UKIP are inexplicably gaining support, but I don't see them making any substantial gains either.

[Machu505]

If BNP members get elected, the Queen ought to just do the right thing and have them beheaded.

[saysmydoctor]

Lib dems looking good or bad?

[aerofan11]

They won't. They'll get more than they should, but they won't do well overall. UKIP are inexplicably gaining support, but I don't see them making any substantial gains either.
Yeah. I don't think they'll win, of course. But they will do well enough, to justify running next time.

[paper halo]

Lib dems looking good or bad?

Hard to say, they managed to slip behind UKIP in 2004, but they weren't affected as much as the other parties by the MP expenses scandal, so hopefully that'll work in their favour.

[Chrisj182]

Lib dems looking good or bad?

They won't win a majority, but the it's looking quite likely that there will be a hung parliament (No over all majority by any party) so if Lib Dems gained more seats than they have now, and Labour and the Tories win less seats, then a Labour/Lib Dem coalition government will be a likely outcome.

I'm going to vote Lib Dems, I know they won't win, but neither Labour (with Brown) nor Conservative will help this country (My personal opinion).

[saysmydoctor]

I wouldn't support Labour either.

[paper halo]

They won't win a majority, but the it's looking quite likely that there will be a hung parliament (No over all majority by any party) so if Lib Dems gained more seats than they have now, and Labour and the Tories win less seats, then a Labour/Lib Dem coalition government will be a likely outcome.

I'm going to vote Lib Dems, I know they won't win, but neither Labour (with Brown) nor Conservative will help this country (My personal opinion).

Agree with this. A coalition government is looking likely.

[DejaGuy89]

the hell?

[badday?]

I may as well not vote this year, it's not as if we have any real choices. Lib Dems won't win, Labour are dire, I too don't believe that the Conservatives will help the UK and I think there are obvious reasons for not voting BNP...

[paper halo]

I may as well not vote this year, it's not as if we have any real choices. Lib Dems won't win, Labour are dire, I too don't believe that the Conservatives will help the UK and I think there are obvious reasons for not voting BNP...

This is a poor excuse not to vote, given the way the UK system works.

[badday?]

I'll still vote, I still voted in the Scottish elections despite the fact I didn't see any clear cut reason to pick one party over the other. In the end, I had a very trivial reason for voting SNP but I'll admit it was a pretty poor (and still unfulfilled) promise that put them ahead of the other parties.

[kofiadrian]

They won't win a majority, but the it's looking quite likely that there will be a hung parliament (No over all majority by any party) so if Lib Dems gained more seats than they have now, and Labour and the Tories win less seats, then a Labour/Lib Dem coalition government will be a likely outcome.

I'm going to vote Lib Dems, I know they won't win, but neither Labour (with Brown) nor Conservative will help this country (My personal opinion).



if i was british i'd vote Lib Dem too.

[saysmydoctor]

I like Nick Clegg, he seems capable. I don't know British politics that well so I'm sure someone could correct me.

[denissuxx]

Labour. Brown is a good leader. Cannot trust Cameron at all.

[saysmydoctor]

Labour. Brown is a good leader. Cannot trust Cameron at all.
I think Gordon Brown has been exceptionally smart and willing to make the tough calls that the rest in Labour haven't been able to make.

[denissuxx]

I think Gordon Brown has been exceptionally smart and willing to make the tough calls that the rest in Labour haven't been able to make.

Agreed. I fear that he will be blamed for the recession and the troubles over the past few years. I think he's dealt with things well, considering.

[alice+interiors]

I don't think Brown is decisive enough. Equally, I don't particularly want Cameron or the Lib Dems in charge. I think the Conservatives are gonna come out top though.

[paper halo]

I don't think Brown is decisive enough. Equally, I don't particularly want Cameron or the Lib Dems in charge. I think the Conservatives are gonna come out top though.

That's what I initially thought, but I've noticed a lot of hate for Cameron recently. It's going to be close.

[kofiadrian]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7044185.ece




um........... whaaaat?

[paper halo]

I notice Cameron has subtly stolen the 'vote for change' slogan.

[alice+interiors]

I notice Cameron has subtly stolen the 'vote for change' slogan.
Haha, nothing subtle about that.

[paper halo]

Haha, nothing subtle about that.

Haha yeah, I was being really sarcastic.

[kofiadrian]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7046890.ece



no, no, no.

[paper halo]

Bump. As the election is now set for May 6th, I thought this thread should be resurrected.

Here are some useful links for the Brits here, and anyone else interested:

Actually British?

Register to vote (http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/register_to_vote/elections_2010.aspx)

Parties:

Labour; (http://www2.labour.org.uk/)
Conservatives; (http://www.conservatives.com/)
Liberal Democrats; (http://www.libdems.org.uk/)
Green Party; (http://www.greenparty.org.uk/)
UKIP; (http://www.ukip.org/)
BNP. (http://bnp.org.uk/)

News sites:

BBC; (http://news.bbc.co.uk/)
Politics.co.uk (http://www.politics.co.uk/);
Reuters; (http://uk.reuters.com/)
Guardian; (http://www.guardian.co.uk/)
Independant; (http://www.independent.co.uk/)
Telegraph. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/)

Other useful stuff:

Voteforpolicies (http://voteforpolicies.org.uk/) - Useful site if you're unsure of the policies of each party, and who you should vote for.

Okay..... and go.

[Deadbolt01]

I think Labour have been a letdown overall. Broken promises and important compromises in civil liberties. Better than the media portrays though...or at least bad for a different reason. I did the voteforpolicies site at school and came up as a labour voter, but I don't think that takes into account the fact that they're useless and don't follow through on what they say.
I won't be voting for the conservatives...ever.
Same goes for the BNP naturally, but I don't think they'll pick up a seat.
My party of choice would probably be the Lib Dems(I know it's not great manners to say, but whatever). However, the ridiculous voting system we have means they have very little chance of getting into government and an even smaller chance of winning in my constituency. The choice for me would therefore be between labour and the Greens and although I didn't like the greens much previously, I'm starting to warm to them a little now and I think 1 seat would be a good thing. I'm 16 though, so I obviously can't vote. I don't support a voting age change either, by the way.

Anyway, most important point is this: The electroal system needs to be changed so that people can vote for who they want to vote for.

[Chrisj182]

I think Labour have been a letdown overall. Broken promises and important compromises in civil liberties. Better than the media portrays though...or at least bad for a different reason. I did the voteforpolicies site at school and came up as a labour voter, but I don't think that takes into account the fact that they're useless and don't follow through on what they say.
I won't be voting for the conservatives...ever.
Same goes for the BNP naturally, but I don't think they'll pick up a seat.
My party of choice would probably be the Lib Dems(I know it's not great manners to say, but whatever). However, the ridiculous voting system we have means they have very little chance of getting into government and an even smaller chance of winning in my constituency. The choice for me would therefore be between labour and the Greens and although I didn't like the greens much previously, I'm starting to warm to them a little now and I think 1 seat would be a good thing. I'm 16 though, so I obviously can't vote. I don't support a voting age change either, by the way.

Anyway, most important point is this: The electroal system needs to be changed so that people can vote for who they want to vote for.

The electoral system really does need to change, I live in an area with a safe seat (Labour) so there's little point me voting, but I will anyway.

[Chrisj182]

Agreed. I fear that he will be blamed for the recession and the troubles over the past few years. I think he's dealt with things well, considering.

I agree, though he does have a strong cabinet with him. A lot of people won't realise this and are looking for a scapegoat which will turn out to be Brown. Brown may have got us through the recession but Churchill managed to lose an election after WW2, so I don't see that Brown is any safer.

[alice+interiors]

Bump. As the election is now set for May 6th, I thought this thread should be resurrected.

Here are some useful links for the Brits here, and anyone else interested:

Actually British?

Register to vote (http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/register_to_vote/elections_2010.aspx)

Parties:

Labour; (http://www2.labour.org.uk/)
Conservatives; (http://www.conservatives.com/)
Liberal Democrats; (http://www.libdems.org.uk/)
Green Party; (http://www.greenparty.org.uk/)
UKIP; (http://www.ukip.org/)
BNP. (http://bnp.org.uk/)

News sites:

BBC; (http://news.bbc.co.uk/)
Politics.co.uk (http://www.politics.co.uk/);
Reuters; (http://uk.reuters.com/)
Guardian; (http://www.guardian.co.uk/)
Independant; (http://www.independent.co.uk/)
Telegraph. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/)

Other useful stuff:

Voteforpolicies (http://voteforpolicies.org.uk/) - Useful site if you're unsure of the policies of each party, and who you should vote for.

Okay..... and go.
Edited into the original post. Thanks.

[paper halo]

Edited into the original post. Thanks.

Sweet, no problem.

I think Labour have been a letdown overall. Broken promises and important compromises in civil liberties. Better than the media portrays though...or at least bad for a different reason. I did the voteforpolicies site at school and came up as a labour voter, but I don't think that takes into account the fact that they're useless and don't follow through on what they say.
I won't be voting for the conservatives...ever.
Same goes for the BNP naturally, but I don't think they'll pick up a seat.
My party of choice would probably be the Lib Dems(I know it's not great manners to say, but whatever). However, the ridiculous voting system we have means they have very little chance of getting into government and an even smaller chance of winning in my constituency. The choice for me would therefore be between labour and the Greens and although I didn't like the greens much previously, I'm starting to warm to them a little now and I think 1 seat would be a good thing. I'm 16 though, so I obviously can't vote. I don't support a voting age change either, by the way.

Anyway, most important point is this: The electroal system needs to be changed so that people can vote for who they want to vote for.

I agree with most of this. I actually wasn't aware of much of the Green Party's policy standpoints prior to using that site, I actually do like and agree with a large portion of their policy, but still believe I am going to go with Lib Dem. I also agree with your point about the electoral system. Sadly, the only parties willing to change it are those unable to achieve power because of it. It works for Labour and the Tories, so they won't ever change it. I'm surprised more people aren't pissed off that we've effectively come down to a two party system with less of a choice than ever before.

[Deadbolt01]

Sweet, no problem.



I agree with most of this. I actually wasn't aware of much of the Green Party's policy standpoints prior to using that site, I actually do like and agree with a large portion of their policy, but still believe I am going to go with Lib Dem. I also agree with your point about the electoral system. Sadly, the only parties willing to change it are those unable to achieve power because of it. It works for Labour and the Tories, so they won't ever change it. I'm surprised more people aren't pissed off that we've effectively come down to a two party system with less of a choice than ever before.
Actually, if the Labour or Conservative victory is only marginal(they don't get an overall majority - 50%+ of the seats)then they'll most likely have to form a coalition or hung parliament with the Lib Dems. One of the expected policies that will be conceded to the Lib Dems is electoral reform, so yeah it could happen for the next election.

[paper halo]

Actually, if the Labour or Conservative victory is only marginal(they don't get an overall majority - 50%+ of the seats)then they'll most likely have to form a coalition or hung parliament with the Lib Dems. One of the expected policies that will be conceded to the Lib Dems is electoral reform, so yeah it could happen for the next election.

I know, I have been hoping for a hung parliament since it started to look like a very real possibility. I think A labour/Lib Dem coalition is the best we can hope for, as much as Labour irk me.

[Deadbolt01]

I know, I have been hoping for a hung parliament since it started to look like a very real possibility. I think A labour/Lib Dem coalition is the best we can hope for, as much as Labour irk me.
Yeah, indeed. I'm not totally secure on the democratic principle of having a hung parliament involving the 3rd party, but if it means that electoral reform is on the cards and Vince Cable gets a say then I won't protest. Seems like the first time I vote we could well have the new system, which'd be cool. Still not sure which out of them is best, I guess AVplus looks most likely...I'll come back here with my thoughts after we're done with electoral systems in my politics module ha.

[paper halo]

A brief look at the Lib Dem manifesto. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/apr/14/liberal-democrat-manifesto-at-a-glance)

[paper halo]

Yeah, indeed. I'm not totally secure on the democratic principle of having a hung parliament involving the 3rd party, but if it means that electoral reform is on the cards and Vince Cable gets a say then I won't protest. Seems like the first time I vote we could well have the new system, which'd be cool. Still not sure which out of them is best, I guess AVplus looks most likely...I'll come back here with my thoughts after we're done with electoral systems in my politics module ha.

I agree that AVplus would be the most likely system to be implemented, being almost a halfway point between first past the post, and full proportional representation. It would certainly be preferable to the current FPTP system.

[secretsociety92]

Tough decision between Lib Dem and Labour, Conservatives are not trust worthy and BNP and UKIP just wanna isolate us from the rest of the world.

[Thesleepingwell]

Definately not voting Conservative.
Meh, they'll make a mess.

[alice+interiors]

Much as I wouldn't vote Conservative.. people have got to face up to what Labour has done to this country in the past eight years. Two farcical wars, a dying economy, high unemployment rates, increasingly simple examinations.. no way should anybody vote to keep this corporate veil in power.

[paper halo]

You don't say... (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/uk-election-brown-regrets-listening-to-bankers-2010-04-14?siteid=rss&rss=1)

[terror_91]

Definately not voting Conservative.
Meh, they'll make a mess.
More of a mess than the country is already in?

What do people think the debates are going to be like tonight?
I'm excited for them but I could see it not working out too well for Cameron; debates tend to benefit the people from behind (i.e. Clegg and Brown) than those in the lead.

[Hiroki]

More of a mess than the country is already in?

What do people think the debates are going to be like tonight?
I'm excited for them but I could see it not working out too well for Cameron; debates tend to benefit the people from behind (i.e. Clegg and Brown) than those in the lead.
The debates will be worth watching and I think Cameron will do a good job as he has an over inflated ego and talks a lot of shite so he is made for tv. The great unwashed will love him X-).

Hopefully Labour will win in the end as I really don't trust dodgy Dave and his mates.

[terror_91]

The debates will be worth watching and I think Cameron will do a good job as he has an over inflated ego and talks a lot of shite so he is made for tv. The great unwashed will love him X-).

Hopefully Labour will win in the end as I really don't trust dodgy Dave and his mates.
I can understand "Dodgy dave and his mates" but is he really worse than Brown? How many Labour MPs are going to court over expenses? Was it 3?
The rest of Brown's mates are just "Cabs for hire".

[Hiroki]

I can understand "Dodgy dave and his mates" but is he really worse than Brown? How many Labour MPs are going to court over expenses? Was it 3?
The rest of Brown's mates are just "Cabs for hire".
Well having lived through the last time they were in power they ruined the country and are just as corrupt as Labour and i'd rather stick to what we have now than go through another Conservative hell.

[terror_91]

Well having lived through the last time they were in power they ruined the country and are just as corrupt as Labour and i'd rather stick to what we have now than go through another Conservative hell.
I can't really argue with that as I've only lived here since '99 but surely we are talking about two different parties? 20 years is a long time.

[Hiroki]

I can't really argue with that as I've only lived here since '99 but surely we are talking about two different parties? 20 years is a long time.
Same party underneath it all.

[Deadbolt01]

This is my case for the Lib Dems: Conservatives are shite, Labour shite. Not exactly intellectual reasoning there, but that's how I feel simplified(though I do also agree politically about a lot of what they have to say), and I don't see why more people aren't willing to give the Liberals a shot. There's a case for smaller parties such as the greens too, though I get a feeling that parties with such little chance of getting into power have a similarly small chance of attracting able politicians.

I'm looking forward to the debate tonight. I predict a stalemate on the first one.

[Thesleepingwell]

All three of the main parties are thinking the same damn thing.
Peh. Bored of 'the big three'.

I'm voting Green.

[Chrisj182]

This debate is interesting, Cameron is coming off worse than the other two though.

[alice+interiors]

Not repeating all my thoughts on the evening, but those curious can view my twitter/rant vehicle at their leisure.

http://twitter.com/matthewmain

[secretsociety92]

Nick Clegg for Priminister, about time we have a different party that actually wants to make us the people more involved in politics and not shut out from it all.

[Deadbolt01]

Wishful thinking, unfortunately.

[alice+interiors]

I don't think he offers all the change he's hyped up for.

[secretsociety92]

Got better and more thoughtout policies compared to Labour and Conservative.

[alice+interiors]

Policies, yes, agreed with you on that front - though still, the necessary changes aren't radical enough to have a complete impact. They are far and away better than the other two - I just think Clegg is Tony Blair part two, and that is disgusting. We don't want another Prime Minister who can do it all in front of the cameras and yet screw the country around left right and centre away from them.

[secretsociety92]

I think that Lib Dem will have a bigger impact with their policies than the other two and at least they are not making the statement that if the Government steps away in certain parts of society and lets us take over then that is a solution to the problems we face.

[alice+interiors]

I think that Lib Dem will have a bigger impact with their policies than the other two and at least they are not making the statement that if the Government steps away in certain parts of society and lets us take over then that is a solution to the problems we face.
Well.. actually, I think that's what they are saying. Surely calling for an increase in referendums and suggesting the people have control over the penalising of MPs / removing their MP is doing exactly that?

[secretsociety92]

Well.. actually, I think that's what they are saying. Surely calling for an increase in referendums and suggesting the people have control over the penalising of MPs / removing their MP is doing exactly that?
I agree with the controlling over MPs but surely allowing parents to run their local school is going a bit far. Surely a successful head teacher in another school would be a better choice.

[alice+interiors]

I agree with the controlling over MPs but surely allowing parents to run their local school is going a bit far. Surely a successful head teacher in another school would be a better choice.
Oh, yeah I don't agree with Cameron on that crap. I think that's one of those 'popular promises we'll forget in five minutes if elected'. I don't think schools should be left to the control of the parents; my mum is a teacher and I know she'd never vote for that.

[secretsociety92]

Oh, yeah I don't agree with Cameron on that crap. I think that's one of those 'popular promises we'll forget in five minutes if elected'. I don't think schools should be left to the control of the parents; my mum is a teacher and I know she'd never vote for that.
What do you think about Lib Dem plans to scrap Trident and ID cards?

[alice+interiors]

What do you think about Lib Dem plans to scrap Trident and ID cards?
ID cards are the worst idea ever, definitely back that. Trident.. I'm not very well educated on. Give me time to get back to you. I am big supporter of the policies the Lib Dems have unveiled for transport, the road cuts in favour of mass rail/public transport spending goes down very well with me.

[secretsociety92]

ID cards are the worst idea ever, definitely back that. Trident.. I'm not very well educated on. Give me time to get back to you. I am big supporter of the policies the Lib Dems have unveiled for transport, the road cuts in favour of mass rail/public transport spending goes down very well with me.
I agree that ID cards are stupid idea and cost a lot of money that can be put elsewhere (NHS, cancer research, welfare) and the public transport policies I think will be a good idea if put into great effect and I dunno if this is part of their transport policy but if the rail and public transport is greener than it is at the moment then that will be great, certainly keep me from driving.

[saysmydoctor]

Andrew Sullivan has been following the British elections pretty closely.

I read Nick Clegg performed pretty well at the debates. I bet the Tories are scared.

[caveBEAR]

Any of you guys feel like giving this stupid American a rundown of what you're talking about? This is (not surprisingly) all foreign to me.

[saysmydoctor]

http://www.pheedcontent.com/click.phdo?i=398e1028f4d2d5ba6abbc8 56c387c263

An interesting take away from Sullivan's round-up is this bit from Gideon Rachman:


Can Clegg keep it up? If he does, the Lib Dems might even force Labour into third place, which would be extraordinary. In the next debate, the Lib Dem leader will lack the element of surprise and freshness that he took advantage of so effectively tonight. Cameron and Brown will also see him as a much more dangerous opponent - and will definitely go for him. On the other hand, Clegg now has some momentum and excitement behind him, and he can build on that. And the next debate will be about foreign affairs. As a multi-lingual, former Euro-MP that should be Clegg’s strong suit - although in Eurosceptic Britain, he will probably try to disguise the extent of his Europhilia.



Suddenly, this election looks interesting.

[GuitarR0cker1]

This American is hoping that the Lib Dems force a hung parliament.

[paper halo]

Oooh a sticky :-)

Very pleased with Clegg's performance in the debate last night.

Snap polls:
ITV: Clegg 43%, Cameron 26%, Brown 20%
YouGov/The Sun: Clegg 51%, Cameron 29%, Brown 19%
Channel Four: Clegg 58%, Brown 28%, Cameron 13%
Sky News: Clegg 37%, Brown 32%, Cameron 31%

Source. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8624317.stm)

[paper halo]

Any of you guys feel like giving this stupid American a rundown of what you're talking about? This is (not surprisingly) all foreign to me.

Get out, you damn yank ;-)

Check out some of the links I posted on the previous page, they're also now in the OP, they should give you an idea of what's going on.

[paper halo]

A close friend just told me she's voted BNP before and intends to do so again....

I'm not angry... I'm disappointed.

[Deadbolt01]

Policies, yes, agreed with you on that front - though still, the necessary changes aren't radical enough to have a complete impact. They are far and away better than the other two - I just think Clegg is Tony Blair part two, and that is disgusting. We don't want another Prime Minister who can do it all in front of the cameras and yet screw the country around left right and centre away from them.
Agreed, though I think with Vince Cable behind him there's some actual know-how there.

[alice+interiors]

Andrew Sullivan has been following the British elections pretty closely.

I read Nick Clegg performed pretty well at the debates. I bet the Tories are scared.
He did okay, for some reaction was probably overdone in his favour.. Brown actually looked relaxed, really. Clegg just kept on cracking out tons of cheesy catchphrases (these always work, for whatever reason) see: 'what's best for you and your family' and 'let me tell you straight'. In many ways he came across every bit as smarmy as Cameron, for whatever reason.

However, I do feel these kind of debates never favour the candidate already in power.

http://www.pheedcontent.com/click.phdo?i=398e1028f4d2d5ba6abbc8 56c387c263

An interesting take away from Sullivan's round-up is this bit from Gideon Rachman:


[/INDENT]
The Lib Dems won't push Labour into third, let me assure you.

[Midgar777]

For anyone unsure of who they want to vote for it might be worth checking out this website (though it's currently down for maintenance)

http://voteforpolicies.org.uk

It asks you loads of questions based on policies then shows you what proportion of policies you selected for each party. I managed to get a 33% 3 way split and the end result looked like the google chrome logo! Crazy!

[Deadbolt01]

already posted.

[Midgar777]

ahh my bad ^_^ sorry I didn't read the whole thread.

or the bottom of the first post ¬_¬ fail!

[FuzzyĐuck]

Although the first past the post method we use is undeniably flawed, it's used too often as an excuse - the Lib Dems could push Labour into third place, or even win, if everybody stuck to their convictions and didn't consider a vote for neither Labour nor Tory as a wasted vote!

A close friend just told me she's voted BNP before and intends to do so again....

I'm not angry... I'm disappointed.

I feel sick that some of my friends vote conservative, finding out they voted BNP would be a quick end to a friendship...

[Thesleepingwell]

Fair point.

People should vote for a different party for a change. They honestly confess to not trusting the Tories, regardless if David Cameron changed the party logo to a tree. As for Gordon Brown, he took too long to call an election and it will backfire. I had planned to vote Green, but I might consider the Lib Dems, if the manifesto is worth voting for.

But I cannot see any party getting a majority. All the polls are suggesting a hung parliament.
We'll see.

[paper halo]

Cameron and Clegg on science. (http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/thesword/2010/04/tories-and-lib-dems-set-out-sc.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news)

[Deadbolt01]

Cameron getting an egg thrown at him (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8634952.stm)

[saysmydoctor]

Cameron getting an egg thrown at him (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8634952.stm)
Busheddddddddddddddddd.

[paper halo]

Hahaha, Tory backed newspapers called out via twitter. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/apr/22/twitter-nick-clegg-newspaper-swipe)

[YourNewestSam]

Still no idea who to vote for. Might just blindly stab at the voting slip, I'm sure the results will be very similar for every government.

[paper halo]

Still no idea who to vote for. Might just blindly stab at the voting slip, I'm sure the results will be very similar for every government.

Try the voteforpolicies site linked on the first page.

[YourNewestSam]

Try the voteforpolicies site linked on the first page.

I did, came up Green Party. I'll have to try it again when I have more time.


Is there local elections at the same time? I'm not 100% sure how all this works, never been that interested in politics.

[Alex Djaferis]

anyone watching?

[aerofan11]

anyone watching?
I'm reading the live feed on Sky's website. I watched some of it earlier about Terrorism and relations with Europe and the US, and I have to say Gordon was probably the best.

[alice+interiors]

I did, came up Green Party. I'll have to try it again when I have more time.


Is there local elections at the same time? I'm not 100% sure how all this works, never been that interested in politics.
Definitely try it again, then.

anyone watching?
:bow:

[Alex Djaferis]

Definitely try it again, then.


:bow:

Word. THis will confuse you further with the quotes, but i just quoted you in the eurokids

[paper halo]

I only caught the end of the debate, I'll watch it properly over the weekend. From the brief part I saw, Cameron wasn't coming off too well.

[secretsociety92]

I still think Clegg is best out of the three after watching the second debate.

[paper halo]

A look at the debate. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8638738.stm)

[paper halo]

I did, came up Green Party. I'll have to try it again when I have more time.

Try this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8515961.stm#subject=key&col1=conservative&col2=labour&col3=libdem) as a faster alternative.

Is there local elections at the same time? I'm not 100% sure how all this works, never been that interested in politics.
Seems like you might be a bit confused by the first past the post system, which is easy enough to do. You can read up on it here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_past_the_post)

[FuzzyĐuck]

I still think Clegg is best out of the three after watching the second debate.

Seconded. Though I'm really disappointed none of the three stuck their necks out and directly criticised the pope and the Catholic church's stance on the many issues the person in the audience raised. Skirted around that one eh, don't want to upset middle England!

[secretsociety92]

Seconded. Though I'm really disappointed none of the three stuck their necks out and directly criticised the pope and the Catholic church's stance on the many issues the person in the audience raised. Skirted around that one eh, don't want to upset middle England!
Yeh I think they should have talked more about that subject.

[alice+interiors]

Seconded. Though I'm really disappointed none of the three stuck their necks out and directly criticised the pope and the Catholic church's stance on the many issues the person in the audience raised. Skirted around that one eh, don't want to upset middle England!
I don't know if you've noticed, but all three party leaders definitely fall under the category of 'middle-class England'.

[FuzzyĐuck]

I don't know if you've noticed, but all three party leaders definitely fall under the category of 'middle-class England'.

Being m'point, albeit indirectly. And also the reason I have to consciously engage myself in politics and remind myself that although most politicians would disagree with most of my morals and opinions, as I do theirs, I still have the privilege to vote and a duty to do so.

[Thesleepingwell]

I don't know if you've noticed, but all three party leaders definitely fall under the category of 'middle-class England'.

Yeah I noticed that as well, intresting point. England's middle class has been traditionally liberal so the historians and demographics say.

Might explain why they are constantly fighting to the central ground. Might be because both Labour and Tories have tried to be more 'liberal' in recent years. For me the big three all in someway or another want the same thing.

[paper halo]

This is amazing:

EKFTtYx2OHc&feature=player_embedded

[paper halo]

Also, facebook fail:

*** ***** likes Conservatives!
*** ***** joined the group I bet we can find 1,000,000,000 individuals who dislike capitalism!

:hitself:

[paper halo]

Debate on climate change. (http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/thesword/2010/04/uk-election-who-will-tackle-cl.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news)

[secretsociety92]

Also, facebook fail:

*** ***** likes Conservatives!
*** ***** joined the group I bet we can find 1,000,000,000 individuals who dislike capitalism!

:hitself:
Haha.

[Deadbolt01]

This is amazing:

EKFTtYx2OHc&feature=player_embedded
Seen that, ace.

[paper halo]

I might revive my Twitter account, as sharing of political opinions and news seems to be one of the few things it is good for.

[paper halo]

Oh Gordon. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8649012.stm)

[Deadbolt01]

Not sure what thats going to do to the campaign. I feel its pretty uncool that they can play private conversations like that.

[paper halo]

Not sure what thats going to do to the campaign. I feel its pretty uncool that they can play private conversations like that.

I, personally don't see it as a massive issue. He is only human, and I would have found that woman irritating. However, I fully expect the media and other parties to capitalise on this.

Oh, and if anyone wants to follow me on Twiitter to see pretty much the same opinions I post on here, feel free: http://twitter.com/battmenton.

[paper halo]

Potential for Labour to lose seats to Lib Dems. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/apr/28/liberal-democrats-labour-marginals-poll?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

[secretsociety92]

Xbox Live has put up there own poll for the General Election and my god it shows how many idiots play on it.

[Chrisj182]

Xbox Live has put up there own poll for the General Election and my god it shows how many idiots play on it.

What results does it show?

[secretsociety92]

What results does it show?
So far -

Lib Dems (26.5%)

Labour (17.3%)

Conservative (20.2%)

Other (35.8%)

Total Votes - 82,915

[Chrisj182]

So far -

Lib Dems (26.5%)

Labour (17.3%)

Conservative (20.2%)

Other (35.8%)

Total Votes - 82,915

That's a very large "other" compared to other election polls.

[paper halo]

Xbox Live has put up there own poll for the General Election and my god it shows how many idiots play on it.

I've noticed a lot of BNP supporters on Live. Thankfully, most of them are too young to vote.

[secretsociety92]

That's a very large "other" compared to other election polls.

It sure is and it is holding at about that percentage.
I've noticed a lot of BNP supporters on Live. Thankfully, most of them are too young to vote.
So have I that is why the Other option on the pole is so high.
So far -

Lib Dems (26.7%)

Labour (17.3%)

Conservative (20.3%)

Other (35.5%)

Total Votes -100,060

[Chrisj182]

I've noticed a lot of BNP supporters on Live. Thankfully, most of them are too young to vote.

I'm ashamed to admit that when I was younger I thought they were right, but I was wrong, let's hope they realise that as well by the time they can vote.

[paper halo]

So, who else watched the debate?

I really enjoyed watching Cameron try to justify tax cuts for the rich.

[secretsociety92]

I watched it and still think Lib Dem policies make more sense and are the kind of policies that will help in the future.

[paper halo]

Snap polls calling Cameron the winner. I can predict the headlines in the daily mail, times, and telegraph tomorrow :rolleyes:

[caveBEAR]

What exactly did that woman say to have the Prime Minister refer to her as bigoted?

[paper halo]

What exactly did that woman say to have the Prime Minister refer to her as bigoted?

She attempted to voice her concerns about immigration, but did so none too eloquently.

Something along the lines of: "all these Eastern Europeans what are coming in.... where are they flocking from?" (Eastern Europe, perhaps? Duh.)

You can watch the clip and judge for yourself. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8649308.stm) (The immigration exchange starts around 2:30)

[Thesleepingwell]

Snap polls calling Cameron the winner. I can predict the headlines in the daily mail, times, and telegraph tomorrow :rolleyes:

All the media will be gleeful about that because they will claim they are right.
Far from I've seen and read Brown, Cameron and Clegg are all just as bad as each other.
Meh. I'm voting Green.

[paper halo]

A psychological look at the last debate. (http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/thesword/2010/04/uk-election-verdict-on-the-fin.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news)

[Deadbolt01]

Ulh1dAjnblA
lol

[secretsociety92]

Ulh1dAjnblA
lol
Haha, that pretty much sums up their policies.

[Thesleepingwell]

Ulh1dAjnblA
lol

Can we call that 'car crash' politics?

[Thesleepingwell]

I watched it and still think Lib Dem policies make more sense and are the kind of policies that will help in the future.

Fair enough, but I don't agree as some of the policies are disappointing, but the political damage may have been done. Clegg has been blindsided by his rivals and the media have been treading on his toes heavily. Okay it's smearing, but this IS politics.

[saysmydoctor]

You Brits need to watch your usage of fucking -gate, alright?

[paper halo]

You Brits need to watch your usage of fucking -gate, alright?

In the now infamous outburst by one Saysmydoctor, commonly referred to as threadgate....

[saysmydoctor]

In the now infamous outburst by one Saysmydoctor, commonly referred to as threadgate....
Zing.

[secretsociety92]

Fair enough, but I don't agree as some of the policies are disappointing, but the political damage may have been done. Clegg has been blindsided by his rivals and the media have been treading on his toes heavily. Okay it's smearing, but this IS politics.
He has the best overall policies and I wish people would take notice to what young people are saying about the election as on the Xbox Live poll 28.3% voted Lib Dem out of 188,117 people.

[Thesleepingwell]

He has the best overall policies and I wish people would take notice to what young people are saying about the election as on the Xbox Live poll 28.3% voted Lib Dem out of 188,117 people.

Fair point. 28.3% is a vote share that people ought to take notice of.
I agree that peoople tend to ignore our generation's political ideas.
We need to be heard!!!

[secretsociety92]

Fair point. 28.3% is a vote share that people ought to take notice of.
I agree that peoople tend to ignore our generation's political ideas.
We need to be heard!!!
We sure do need to be heard especially when Labour have 17% and Conservative 20% which is the complete opposite of what other polls are showing.

[kofiadrian]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/leading_article/article7113404.ece

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/30/the-liberal-moment-has-come

To the shock of no one, The Times endorses the Conservatives; and The Guardian endorses the Liberal Democrats

[Thesleepingwell]

Just been reading the manifesto for the Green Party.
Impressive.

http://www.greenparty.org.uk/assets/files/resources/Manifesto_web_file.pdf

Thoughts?

[paper halo]

Just been reading the manifesto for the Green Party.
Impressive.

http://www.greenparty.org.uk/assets/files/resources/Manifesto_web_file.pdf

Thoughts?

I didn't realise until recently just how socialist their policies are in nature, I'd always considered them a one issue party. I feel they still place too much emphasis on that one issue, which allows their other policies to go ignored, sadly. I like their policies alot, and I hope they do make some gains in this election, but, personally, I would view it as a wasted vote this time.

[Thesleepingwell]

Fair dues, that's a fair opinion.

I'm going to make this vote a wise one. After all this is democracy and I want to have polictians who are in tune with us. I want change and I can only do that by voting. I'll vote for what I truly believe in rather than accepting there are three parties and that's it.

Look at it this way. All three of them don't like each other that much. Clegg says he doesn't want to work Brown or Cameron. The others don't want to work with him or each other. Labour and the Tories have got too much pride to give ground to the Lib Dems in a coalition. I've given this a serious thought, that a hung parliament is the last thing an econmically uncertain UK really needs.

[paper halo]

Well I still support most of the Lib Dem's policies, and I think if the chance arose they would team up with Labour. This could potentially offer the chance for voting reform, giving us a more representative system for next time.

In my view, a hung parliament is far preferable to a Tory government.

[paper halo]

On a seperate note, I just got a BNP leaflet through my front door. Anyone who supports them genuinely deserves nothing but contempt.

[Chrisj182]

Well I still support most of the Lib Dem's policies, and I think if the chance arose they would team up with Labour. This could potentially offer the chance for voting reform, giving us a more representative system for next time.

In my view, a hung parliament is far preferable to a Tory government.

Agreed, the Liberal Democrats are the winners in this election, judging by polls, as they'll have to be part of the coalition government (most likely with Liberals). This will finally cause some kind of electoral reform, badly needed in this country in my opinion.

Liberal Democrats have my vote anyway.

[Jordie-182]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/leading_article/article7113404.ece

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/30/the-liberal-moment-has-come

To the shock of no one, The Times endorses the Conservatives; and The Guardian endorses the Liberal Democrats

As far as I'm concerned, the Guardian can endorse the Liberal Democrats as much as they like, considering they seem to be getting flack from most other media outlets for no real reason.

Also, I only just found this thread and I haven't really got ages to read through it from page 1, but I found this article by the Independent, thought it was pretty interesting. (I apologise if it's already been posted)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sun-censored-poll-that-showed-support-for-lib-dems-1951940.html

[paper halo]

The virtues of a hung parliament. (http://www.voteforachange.co.uk/)

Also, on top of the shadow home secretary supporting b&b owners rights to discriminate against gay people, I found this (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/02/conservatives-philippa-stroud-gay-cure?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter) gem posted on twitter last night. Yeah, today's Tory party is really different to the old one :rolleyes:

[paper halo]

Looks like he really is desperate. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/02/gordon-brown-nick-clegg-gameshow-host) That's right Gordon, attract voters by patronising them.

[secretsociety92]

On a seperate note, I just got a BNP leaflet through my front door. Anyone who supports them genuinely deserves nothing but contempt.
Suprisingly I haven't had one through mine, not that I want 1930s/40s war propaganda.

[paper halo]

Conservatives bankrolled by Christian donors. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/02/secret-christian-donors-bankroll-tories) Apparently we're turning into the US.

[saysmydoctor]

Conservatives bankrolled by Christian donors. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/02/secret-christian-donors-bankroll-tories) Apparently we're turning into the US.
First you take our debates, then you take our suffixes, then you take our campaign funding methodology. Your democracy is almost complete.

[paper halo]

First you take our debates, then you take our suffixes, then you take our campaign funding methodology. Your democracy is almost complete.

The Tories also swiped the 'vote for change' slogan. Though 'vote for regression' would be more apt in their case.

[Thesleepingwell]

The Tories just need 14 seats to get a majority...

Tories have 38%
Lib Dems with 28%
Labour with 27%

Found those percentages on a YouGov poll on the Sky News website.

I think this is useful: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8609989.stm

[Thesleepingwell]

First you take our debates, then you take our suffixes, then you take our campaign funding methodology. Your democracy is almost complete.

It's fucked. We need PR here...

[paper halo]

The Tories just need 14 seats to get a majority...

Tories have 38%
Lib Dems with 28%
Labour with 27%

Found those percentages on a YouGov poll on the Sky News website.

I think this is useful: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8609989.stm

Don't trust YouGov, they are unashamedly pro-tory.

[Thesleepingwell]

Don't trust YouGov, they are unashamedly pro-tory.

Figures. Not surpised. Opinion polls are often misleading...

[paper halo]

Figures. Not surpised. Opinion polls are often misleading...

Well YouGov is run by The Sun, which is owned by Rupert Murdoch. The Sun came out in support of the Conservative party in the run up to this election, and have already been accused of conveniently failing to publish poll results that support other parties. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sun-censored-poll-that-showed-support-for-lib-dems-1951940.html)

(EDIT: Only just realised the article I posted was already posted above by Jordie-182.)

[Thesleepingwell]

Well YouGov is run by The Sun, which is owned by Rupert Murdoch. The Sun came out in support of the Conservative party in the run up to this election, and have already been accused of conveniently failing to publish poll results that support other parties. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sun-censored-poll-that-showed-support-for-lib-dems-1951940.html)

That is just plain wrong. The Sun has been harsh on the Lib Dems from what I've read.
Elections should not be decided because of sleazed dirt in papers.
And people will believe what they read, just crazy.

Oh well it's nothing new tbh.

[paper halo]

That is just plain wrong. The Sun has been harsh on the Lib Dems from what I've read.
Elections should not be decided because of sleazed dirt in papers.
And people will believe what they read, just crazy.

Oh well it's nothing new tbh.

Murdoch also owns The Times, and obviously The Daily Mail is pro tory too. The Guardian and The Observer are, I think, the only two to support the Liberal Democrats. Hopefully the majority of people in this country aren't stupid enough to have their views swayed by obviously biased newspaper reporting.

[Thesleepingwell]

I get the impression the media think they are in control. All Murdoch wants is to sell papers.
Captalism and polictics. You can't seperate 'em.

[aerofan11]

I get the impression the media think they are in control. All Murdoch wants is to sell papers.
Captalism and polictics. You can't seperate 'em.
Murdoch is trying as hard as he can to persuade the Great British public to vote Tory for many reasons. On the top of my head I know that the Tories wants to give Ofcom (they're the people who handle TV complaints from viewers) less power. And a lot of people know Ofcom fucked Sky (a Murdoch owned company) over last year, making them charge less for Sky Sports, and put it on other cable TV services.
The best way of Murdoch trying to convince us is to make the newspapers he owns pro-Tory.

Sucks that a guy who can't even vote is trying so hard to get everyone to vote for one party.

[paper halo]

Poll of polls. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/interactive/2010/apr/06/general-election-2010-polling) All put the Tories in the lead.

[paper halo]

A US journalist's perspective. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/02/britain-election-us-journalist-jacob-weisberg)

[paper halo]

So, just to recap, here are some examples of the modern attitudes of the Tories toward the LGBT community:

B&Bs should be allowed to discriminate against gay couples; (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8602371.stm)
The risk of HIV for homosexual men is comparable to the risks faced by front-line soldiers; (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/england/8639886.stm)
Homosexuality can, and should, be cured with prayer. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/02/conservatives-philippa-stroud-gay-cure)

[paper halo]

Lib Dems going for Labour heartland. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/03/nick-clegg-targets-labour-heartland)

[Deadbolt01]

Green party representative came to my door just now, was trying to get on my side with the "I think the voting age should be lowered to 16" thing, I owned her bad style. Silly idea to lower the voting age.

[paper halo]

Green party representative came to my door just now, was trying to get on my side with the "I think the voting age should be lowered to 16" thing, I owned her bad style. Silly idea to lower the voting age.

We have enough unimformed voters as it is. Not that everyone under the age of 18 is uninformed, of course.

[Deadbolt01]

We have enough unimformed voters as it is. Not that everyone under the age of 18 is uninformed, of course.
Exactly. It's about 95% uninformed I'd say, between 16 and 18. Theyd dumb it down with text messaging services and similar bollocks.

[saysmydoctor]

I'd support lowering the voting age if it coincided with education and informing students of the issues. Make them informed. It's important.

[kofiadrian]

So, just to recap, here are some examples of the modern attitudes of the Tories toward the LGBT community:

B&Bs should be allowed to discriminate against gay couples; (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8602371.stm)
The risk of HIV for homosexual men is comparable to the risks faced by front-line soldiers; (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/england/8639886.stm)
Homosexuality can, and should, be cured with prayer. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/02/conservatives-philippa-stroud-gay-cure)


This makes the prospects of a tory victory even more disturbing.

[aerofan11]

So, just to recap, here are some examples of the modern attitudes of the Tories toward the LGBT community:

B&Bs should be allowed to discriminate against gay couples; (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8602371.stm)
The risk of HIV for homosexual men is comparable to the risks faced by front-line soldiers; (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/england/8639886.stm)
Homosexuality can, and should, be cured with prayer. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/02/conservatives-philippa-stroud-gay-cure)

I spoke to the guy who made those Hiv claims last week. Class A cock. Didn't know what to say, and kept giving me statistics, which i didn't want.
Then a teacher had an argument with him about it. Pretty entertaining, but it made me wish i could vote, so i could not vote conservatives.

[paper halo]

Hammersmith and Fulham council: A model of compassionate conservatism. (http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-welcome-to-cameron-land-1962318.html)

[kofiadrian]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/may/05/1983-cameron-victory-kinnocks-words


Neil Kinnock's words still ring true. They could be even more so on Friday morning.

[Chrisj182]

I'd support lowering the voting age if it coincided with education and informing students of the issues. Make them informed. It's important.

Agreed, the first time I could study politics was at 16, it should be taught from at least 14. I had to sit through French from 11 till 16, with nothing in politics in that entire time, ridiculous.

[paper halo]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/may/05/1983-cameron-victory-kinnocks-words


Neil Kinnock's words still ring true. They could be even more so on Friday morning.

Good article. Depressing though. I'm attending an election party tomorrow night, and I'll be drinking for the duration anyway, but I think I'm going to need something seriously strong if Cameron wins.

[terror_91]

I'll be watching this on my bill. My mother has promised to stay up for a bit but she won't last.

Looks like I will have to watch the Conservatives march to a small majority all alone. I really hope there isn't a hung parliament.

[Deadbolt01]

Tempted to watch the alternative one tomorrow night with Charlie Brooker. Not sure though.

[Deadbolt01]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/england/8663681.stm

fight! Yes.

[paper halo]

I'll be watching this on my bill. My mother has promised to stay up for a bit but she won't last.

Looks like I will have to watch the Conservatives march to a small majority all alone. I really hope there isn't a hung parliament.

I'm still yet to hear any decent arguments against a hung parliament. I've heard a ton of good arguments against a Tory government.

[terror_91]

I'm still yet to hear any decent arguments against a hung parliament. I've heard a ton of good arguments against a Tory government.
What is your response to a compromised manifesto?

No party will ever plan for a hung parliament, what is the point in admitting that your policies are not not good enough for the majority of people?

If no party plans for, it means that it has to be negotiated behind closed doors in the days/months after the election through coalitions. What if the coalition is made up of the 2nd and 3rd place party? How is it fair that the party that most people support will be out of power?

I'll come back to this tomorrow as I need to go to bed. I'll bring some more arguments as well ;-)

[paper halo]

Oh my...

http://img63.yfrog.com/img63/56/ry3f.jpg

[georgedcc]

Oh my...

http://img63.yfrog.com/img63/56/ry3f.jpg

Bloody hell, I dislike David Cameron as much as anybody but the Mirror have ben brutal to him this campaign. I still lol'd though.

http://voteforpolicies.org.uk/

This is an interesting site as you can see whose polices you actually like. Apparently in 75% green and 25% Lib Dem

Edit: that link was actually in the opening post, I clearly should have read it more carefully.

[georgedcc]

Has anyone had a look around the BNP website? It's entertaining in a 'what the fuck!?' way.

Talking about past BNP convictions: 'self-defence against leftist thugs and youthful stupidity now twenty years or more in the past'.

Talking about the Environment: 'Unlike the fake “Greens” who are merely a front for the far left of the Labour regime, the BNP is the only party to recognise that overpopulation – whose primary driver is immigration, as revealed by the government’s own figures – is the cause of the destruction of our environment.'

Complaining about Safeway job application forms (!?) : 'Their job application form however makes for interesting reading, especially if you classify your “ethnic origin” as English, Welsh, Scots or simply British. Amazingly there is no box to tick if you happen to classify yourself as such. You can lump yourself into White European or White Other then “specify”. A classic case of blatant discrimination against the indigenous Britons.'

About crime: 'End the liberal fixation with the “rights” of criminals'.

About schooling: 'The reintroduction of daily Christian assemblies' And 'The ending of the scandalous and racist neglect that has left working class white boys at the bottom of the table for academic achievement'.

It's absolutely incredible in a terrifying way. Check it out.

[paper halo]

What is your response to a compromised manifesto?

No party will ever plan for a hung parliament, what is the point in admitting that your policies are not not good enough for the majority of people?

This comes down, in part, to the representation offered by our voting system. The majority of people do not decide who wins, the majority of seats decides. A party could gain the majority of the popular vote but still not gain enough seats to pass the post. This is why I believe the system needs to be reformed, and the only way that will happen, is if we have a hung parliament. The Tories would certainly not reform a system that works for them. Granted, the process would be slow, as a coalition government would typically take longer in reaching decisions, but ultimately worth it. They could potentially also finally reform the House of Lords.

If no party plans for, it means that it has to be negotiated behind closed doors in the days/months after the election through coalitions. What if the coalition is made up of the 2nd and 3rd place party? How is it fair that the party that most people support will be out of power?
See again, my point about the first past the post system. There is a fairly high chance that the Lib Dems will gain more votes than Labour, but gain less seats, how is that democratic? Also, if the coalition is made up of the second and third place parties, it will have the majority of the seats, that is the reason for such alliances; to make up the number of seats in order to pass the winning post.

There is a lot of fear spoken about the effectiveness of a coalition government, but the largest national economy in Europe is overseen by such a government, and has had coalition goverments as the norm for over 60 years. Not that such an example is necessarily indicative of what would happen here, but it is worth bearing in mind when observing the hysteria some newspapers are trying to incite.
I'll come back to this tomorrow as I need to go to bed. I'll bring some more arguments as well ;-)
I look forward to it.

[paper halo]

Shit. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/05/general-election-2010-david-cameron)

[georgedcc]

Shit. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/05/general-election-2010-david-cameron)

Shit indeed. To be brutally honest, I'm nearly resigned to the idea of 'Call me Dave' being my Prime Minister on Friday morning. I'm not happy about it, but I've accepted it as a tragic inevitability.

[paper halo]

Shit indeed. To be brutally honest, I'm nearly resigned to the idea of 'Call me Dave' being my Prime Minister on Friday morning. I'm not happy about it, but I've accepted it as a tragic inevitability.

The only comfort I can draw from that thought is that, after five years of a Conservative government, they will most likely go an entire generation before having any hope of being elected again. Whatever government emerges on Friday morning, it will not be a popular one.

[paper halo]

Election day front pages. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/gallery/2010/may/06/general-election-2010-newspapers-front-pages?picture=362252670)

I like how the Daily Express summarises the key chunks of bullshit, presumably to better appeal to the average IQ of their readers.

[FuzzyĐuck]

Everyone remember to vote today! And please remember to vote for policies as well as personality...

It's your vote so decide on merit, and remember in the vast majority of the world a hung parliament is just called,well,the government :o) So ignore the scaremongering, it's just that.

[secretsociety92]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/england/8663681.stm

fight! Yes.
Typical BNP policies there, kick people down if they don't agree with you.

[paper halo]

Just to highlight how horrendous our voting system is, this site (http://www.voterpower.org.uk/) tells you what a vote is worth in your constituency. Mine was 0.066. Seriously, I applaud anyone who can tell me with a straight face that FPTP is fair.

[kofiadrian]

Just to highlight how horrendous our voting system is, this site (http://www.voterpower.org.uk/) tells you what a vote is worth in your constituency. Mine was 0.066. Seriously, i applaud anyone who can tell me with a straight face that FPTP is fair.



It isn't fair or logical in the slightest bit. And I thought the electoral college was stupid....

[paper halo]

It isn't fair or logical in the slightest bit. And I thought the electoral college was stupid....

We really need reform.

On a different note, my new facebook profile pic:
http://posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/glyndot/DuHcfklnDygasDfcfcIGxEBalajuIDwwasl IEHFvbABfqGpxsgwtEGonwJpx/media_httpgifgifcoukimgblog101009jp g_okaDhpsbBqDjxcs.jpg.scaled500.jpg
Had to be done.

[Hiroki]

So I voted for the first time today and went with Labour.

I'm pretty confident in my own decision but due to the fact that the debates have been on tv I feel that a lot of the general public will vote in the general election like it's a tv show and will vote for personality over policies and will let that cunt Cameron into power

[kofiadrian]

For the world's sake, I really, really, really do not want the Tories to win.







*Last time i'll mention my tory hatred on here until its all done and dusted.

[Deadbolt01]

Cameron hasnt got personality or policies....sigh.
7h92DALSM_A&feature=player_embedded

[paper halo]

For the world's sake, I really, really, really do not want the Tories to win.

You're far from alone there.

I can't see why people want to suport a party that is going to slash public spending, raise VAT, and most probably freeze minimum wage, all while clinging to a promise of tax breaks for the most wealthy people in the country.

[Deadbolt01]

Raising VAT while not raising income tax is a regressive tax on the poor, really. The poor pay a larger proportion of their income that way. Another reason why Cameron shouldnt get in.

[thehereaway]

I took Government & Politics at AS-Level so I would know how to use my vote properly and better understand the political system in this country. I voted Labour, because I agree with more of their policies than any other party. My constituency, Devices, has been Conservative since 1992 though, so i'm not holding my breath.

FPTP is ridiculous.

[Deadbolt01]

I'm doing Gov & Pol right now and yeah, I agree with you.

[FuzzyĐuck]

On a different note, my new facebook profile pic:
http://posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/glyndot/DuHcfklnDygasDfcfcIGxEBalajuIDwwasl IEHFvbABfqGpxsgwtEGonwJpx/media_httpgifgifcoukimgblog101009jp g_okaDhpsbBqDjxcs.jpg.scaled500.jpg
Had to be done.

Beautiful, yes it did - can I steal?

The office was dead quiet this afternoon and someone must've said something about tonight - everyone went still and it was such a strange feeling as you could tell we were all thinking the same thing - imagining if the Tories won, "what if...?" heh. God I felt like I was gonna throw up - hell I'd happily wipe that saggy Scotsman's arse if it meant Cameron wouldn't win, eeeww

[Midgar777]

Okay, I'm going to have to throw it out there: If you are a bit of a tool like me and you put a Tick instead of a Cross.... is that okay or is it void? Some people are saying void but some websites I've looked on suggest that as long as it's clear which one you voted for it's counted.

??

[terror_91]

This comes down, in part, to the representation offered by our voting system. The majority of people do not decide who wins, the majority of seats decides. A party could gain the majority of the popular vote but still not gain enough seats to pass the post. This is why I believe the system needs to be reformed, and the only way that will happen, is if we have a hung parliament. The Tories would certainly not reform a system that works for them. Granted, the process would be slow, as a coalition government would typically take longer in reaching decisions, but ultimately worth it. They could potentially also finally reform the House of Lords. I can see your point but the amount of times that the party without the popular vote has gotten into power has been very few since WWII. I'm not sure of the exact figure but I would say it is under 5 (2 rings a bell but I'm not sure).
At a time like this, can we really afford to be taking slow decisions? Do we have the time to argue out over all these different issues? Can compromises be reached for everything? Take trident as an example, is there a compromise between the Lib Dems and other parties?
I believe that the current Houses of Common debates are enough to come to an informed decision without the need to bargain. There is no need to trade bits and bobs to arrive at a policy that no one voted for.

See again, my point about the first past the post system. There is a fairly high chance that the Lib Dems will gain more votes than Labour, but gain less seats, how is that democratic? Also, if the coalition is made up of the second and third place parties, it will have the majority of the seats, that is the reason for such alliances; to make up the number of seats in order to pass the winning post.
It wouldn't be but I personally believe that the Lib Dem support won't follow through. I think people will get to the polling station and will chicken out of the "change" that Clegg is offering.
If I am wrong, then, no, I accept your point. It wouldn't be very democratic but how democratic is voting for one party only to be given two parties who have both compromised on their manifestos? For me, that is a million times worse. Not a single person would have voted for our government; no one in the entire country. You then have your party having to back down over issues. Say the Lib Dems backed down over trident and that was the main reason I voted for them? I know parties can't keep all their promises but I think that this situation would be a lot more likely.
There is a lot of fear spoken about the effectiveness of a coalition government, but the largest national economy in Europe is overseen by such a government, and has had coalition goverments as the norm for over 60 years. Not that such an example is necessarily indicative of what would happen here, but it is worth bearing in mind when observing the hysteria some newspapers are trying to incite.
Yes, it is true that they have worked in Germany and that there is probably an unnecessary hysteria over the hung parliament but I think that this relates to my point about compromising positions. I don't want a mish-mash of government, I want a strong government that is willing to take decisive action. That's something I don't believe you can get with a coalition. Every single decision takes that little bit longer.
I look forward to it. Hung parliaments are less stable than FPTP parliaments. What this can result in is (even more so than usual) short-termism. The systemic problems that would crop up will not be properly corrected. Would the trade unions have been put in their proper place had it not been for the decisive action that only a strong government could deliver? Would we be in a position where the "Winter of Discontent" of 1978-1979 was a regular occurrence due to the stranglehold that trade unions had over the economy? This is a bit pessimistic and doom day-ish, I'll admit, but it is possible that the problems of the trade unions would not have been sorted quickly, if they got sorted at all. Short-termism is a problem as it is, we cannot allow for more of it.

So, hung parliaments lead to a short-termist government, which no one has voted for both in terms of actual votes and in terms of compromised promises, that take longer to make decisions (longer to build and each decision takes that much longer). These decisions are often band-aids on the serious problems of society. There is also a problem of extreme parties getting into power. PR also gives smaller parties much more power than they deserve. If a party is getting 40% of the popular vote, why should they be compromising policies with a party that only got 10%?

Did anyone see the BNP scuffle with the 3 Asian lads? I'd like to know what support the BNP are getting in the constituency that Griffin is running in.

[Deadbolt01]

Okay, I'm going to have to throw it out there: If you are a bit of a tool like me and you put a Tick instead of a Cross.... is that okay or is it void? Some people are saying void but some websites I've looked on suggest that as long as it's clear which one you voted for it's counted.

??

They're saying its fine this year.


So What coverage are you guys watching? I'm on the alternative one, mostly just because I love Charlie Brooker.

[FuzzyĐuck]

So What coverage are you guys watching? I'm on the alternative one, mostly just because I love Charlie Brooker.

Same here, though I'm sleeping through the celebrity politician Come Dine With Me. Shame as I love the normal one!

terror_91 (http://www.absolutepunk.net/member.php?u=973242), can you provide citations to research or articles that find modern coalition governments significantly slower or more 'short-term' than a fpp system? Any administration serving a full term would show similar consideration of the consequences of any new legislation...?

[paper halo]

I'm going to have to respond to the above post tomorrow, as I'm currently late for an election night gathering. I won't be able to post my thoughts on here, but I'll probably be tweeting (http://twitter.com/battmenton), if anyone's likely to be interested in my increasingly drunken rants.

Good luck to everyone and what not, let's hope for the best!

[paper halo]

Before I go, first exit poll is in (http://economist.com/blogs/bagehot), and it's not pretty.

[amii_G]

I can't believe my first vote was Labour, and I was pretty much forced into it (tactical voting against the Tories). Not looking good, tbh.

[Anderson]

Before I go, first exit poll is in (http://economist.com/blogs/bagehot), and it's not pretty.
It's not pleasent reading. The swing to the tories in the first two declared seats are 8 and 11% :-(

[jdark6]

Who are all these people voting for the Tories?! Everyone I've talked to has said "not the Tories".

[terror_91]

Same here, though I'm sleeping through the celebrity politician Come Dine With Me. Shame as I love the normal one!

terror_91 (http://www.absolutepunk.net/member.php?u=973242), can you provide citations to research or articles that find modern coalition governments significantly slower or more 'short-term' than a fpp system? Any administration serving a full term would show similar consideration of the consequences of any new legislation...?
Possibly; who knows. I don't care enough to be bothered finding them (if they are there to be found). My point was that since coalitions tend to be more unstable that it would make them more short-termist because they will be continually thinking about an election that is always round the corner.

My point came from this quote:
"It's clearly constrained - it can't do what a government with an overall majority can do," explains Lord Norton, an expert on Parliament. "It's far more fraught, a far more hand to mouth existence. You can govern but you can't govern proactively," he adds

Some big swings to the tories in labour seats and con-lab marginals. Not so much in the con-lib marginals.

Must say, it was an absolute joy to see the original exit polls which had the lib dems down by 3 seats. I knew the support was never going to follow through.

[kofiadrian]

Montgomeryshire just went tory from lib dem. the fuck. 13.2% swing. SHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT.

[saysmydoctor]

Possibly; who knows. I don't care enough to be bothered finding them (if they are there to be found). My point was that since coalitions tend to be more unstable that it would make them more short-termist because they will be continually thinking about an election that is always round the corner.

My point came from this quote:
"It's clearly constrained - it can't do what a government with an overall majority can do," explains Lord Norton, an expert on Parliament. "It's far more fraught, a far more hand to mouth existence. You can govern but you can't govern proactively," he adds

Some big swings to the tories in labour seats and con-lab marginals. Not so much in the con-lib marginals.

Must say, it was an absolute joy to see the original exit polls which had the lib dems down by 3 seats. I knew the support was never going to follow through.
That's not how it works, sorry pal.

[JonM]

Keeping my fingers crossed for a Tory majority. I fucking hate Scotland though, bunch of socialist arseholes who are too happy with the welfare state that has been developed, life is far too easy to just sponge off the government up here and people don't want it to change.

I'm moving to fucking England.

[saysmydoctor]

Keeping my fingers crossed for a Tory majority. I fucking hate Scotland though, bunch of socialist arseholes who are too happy with the welfare state that has been developed, life is far too easy to just sponge off the government up here and people don't want it to change.

I'm moving to fucking England.
Do you also hate unicorns?

[saysmydoctor]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/05/a-liblab-pact.html

Lib Dem/Labour coalition talks?

[saysmydoctor]

Is it just me or is there a level of humbleness in British politics and cordiality that I wish could transfer to the US? Or is that just outsider naivety?

[caveBEAR]

Is it just me or is there a level of humbleness in British politics and cordiality that I wish could transfer to the US? Or is that just outsider naivety?

Forget just politics. I wish the US seemed a bit more humble altogether.

[terror_91]

That's not how it works, sorry pal.
Think you will find that is how it works. I do what I want.

Still got my fingers crossed for a small majority but it is so unpredictable it can hardly be called.

[caveBEAR]

Think you will find that is how it works. I do what I want.

Who are you? Eric Cartman?

[terror_91]

Who are you? Eric Cartman?
Sure, why not?

[saysmydoctor]

Think you will find that is how it works. I do what I want.

Still got my fingers crossed for a small majority but it is so unpredictable it can hardly be called.
So you just normally spout off things as if they are facts but never actually validate them?

Where in life does that work? Besides Fox News.

[kofiadrian]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/05/a-liblab-pact.html

Lib Dem/Labour coalition talks?



from the looks of it, there might not be a lib/lab coalition or a con majority. eeeeeeeeeeek.

[caveBEAR]

Sure, why not?

Because Cartman is a complete prick. But, hey, if you want it, it's all yours.

[terror_91]

So you just normally spout off things as if they are facts but never actually validate them?

Where in life does that work? Besides Fox News.
Shit, I didn't realise that AP forums were so serious! I'll quickly gather together some references for you!
Because Cartman is a complete prick. But, hey, if you want it, it's all yours.
Oh shit, I'm incredibly insulted.

I knew I was in for trouble when I saw all the lib dem logos and anti-tory; hope you are all enjoying the results.

[caveBEAR]

Shit, I didn't realise that AP forums were so serious! I'll quickly gather together some references for you!

No one really cares if you don't want your opinions to be taken seriously.

[saysmydoctor]

Shit, I didn't realise that AP forums were so serious! I'll quickly gather together some references for you!

Oh shit, I'm incredibly insulted.

I knew I was in for trouble when I saw all the lib dem logos and anti-tory; hope you are all enjoying the results.
We take our discussion seriously, if you aren't interested in participating in such a manner: bye.

And I'm awaiting those references.

[saysmydoctor]

http://blogs.channel4.com/snowblog/2010/05/07/could-the-phone-still-ring-for-the-lib-dems/
Hmmm

[saysmydoctor]

"The Green Party's Caroline Lucas wins Brighton Pavilion, becoming the party's first Westminster MP. She says the people of the constituency have made history. "Thank you so much for putting the politics of hope above the politics of fear."'

[saysmydoctor]

I like the way the British announce the winners of elections.

[paper halo]

Shit, I didn't realise that AP forums were so serious! I'll quickly gather together some references for you!

People are expected to back up their assertions in politics, that is how it works, deal with it or be treated with contempt, your choice.

I knew I was in for trouble when I saw all the lib dem logos and anti-tory; hope you are all enjoying the results.
Differing opinions can be scary can't they. I wouldn't feel smug just yet if I were you though.

[kofiadrian]

Nick Clegg looked somewhat gutted in his speech. bummer.

[paper halo]

Nick Clegg looked somewhat gutted in his speech. bummer.

I'm not surprised. What's more depressing is the number of votes compared to the number of seats. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/) At least this will serve to highlight the undemocratic nature of FPTP.

[paper halo]

BNP with over half a million votes, but no seats. This country is disappointing me on so many levels.

[paper halo]

Must say, it was an absolute joy to see the original exit polls which had the lib dems down by 3 seats. I knew the support was never going to follow through.

Apparently a large number of people decided that voting Labour, in order to keep the Tories out, was more important. I can't think why.

[kofiadrian]

BNP with over half a million votes, but no seats. This country is disappointing me on so many levels.


doubles the votes the Green Party. I thought Britain was better than that.

[kofiadrian]

This election has shown one thing(especially true for Lib Dems): Opinions polls do not really mean jack shit.

[paper halo]

doubles the votes the Green Party. I thought Britain was better than that.

On the plus side, the Green Party have at least come away with a seat. Potentially the only upshot of our awful electoral system.

[kofiadrian]

Some tory broad on Sky News predicts that by the end of the day, Cameron will be PM with a minority government. I really, really do not want this to be the case but, I don't know. This is so fucking depressing.

[paper halo]

Some tory broad on Sky News predicts that by the end of the day, Cameron will be PM with a minority government. I really, really do not want this to be the case but, I don't know. This is so fucking depressing.

He needs to at least hit 300 seats, which is looking quite likely, sadly. But it's not nearly as simple as that, there's no way of knowing for sure yet.

[FuzzyĐuck]

Ah crap... time to emigrate...

[Midgar777]

Cameron is fail. "Vote for me and I'll build a wall around london to keep the poor out"

[Paulb-182]

People can complain that BNP has more votes than The Green Party, but if people want votes for The Green Party, they really need something to stand for. The sad truth is, the BNP has a strong view on immigration, a lot of people don't like immigrants, simple as that. Any party worth their salt have 'lets save the environment' somewhere in their things to do list.

I voted conservative both general and national, but of course Labour got in round my way, because it's a stronghold for them here. It's a joke cus they've done fuck all good for the people of this town.

[ammar]

hung parliament... kinda good i think but i know jack shit bout politics

[Chrisj182]

I voted Lib Dem in a Labour stronghold, I really hope they can both form a government.

[kofiadrian]

I voted Lib Dem in a Labour stronghold, I really hope they can both form a government.


considering Clegg's recent statement, that is not happening.

[Chrisj182]

considering Clegg's recent statement, that is not happening.

No i've just seen that now. Tbh I can't see Clegg backing down on his electoral reform issue, and it would be out of Cameron's interest to support proportional representation.

[Paulb-182]

Yeah, Clegg wants in with the Conservatives it seems. That's a good thing to me.

[secretsociety92]

I would of prefered it to have been Labour/Lib Dem as they have ideas that suit each other well.

[ammar]

i know lib dems wanna legalize marijauna so i hope that goes through :-d

[kofiadrian]

Sky News understands that Labour is "in touch" with SNP. Bitch please.

[paper halo]

I'm back in the land of the living, just about.

Need to express my love for the guy who fought the power:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/files/2010/05/fistman11.JPG

[kofiadrian]

I have a hunch that Cameron. on the back of this result, is going to face a backlash from some members of his own party for not having won this election fair and square.

[secretsociety92]

One good thing about this election, BNP failed to get the one seat they thought they would win and lost out by about 18,000 votes to Labour.

[paper halo]

Really curious to see what's going to happen here. Clegg has indicated he won't form a government with Brown, Tories will need to make up the seats somehow and they might not be able to form a stable coalition without the help of the Lib Dems.

[paper halo]

One good thing about this election, BNP failed to get the one seat they thought they would win and lost out by about 18,000 votes to Labour.

Half a million BNP votes is still pretty depressing. I'm glad the Green Party won a seat though.

[paper halo]

It'll be interesting to see what happens in regard to the polling station controversy. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8666338.stm)