what will happen to mcgwire?

[thejetstolehome]

poll coming...

[FondestMemory]

i don't think most voters have the balls to not vote him in first ballot.

i honestly think he should be a first ballot anyways. yeah, chances are he's done some shit. but there's no rock solid evidence. i don't see how you can keep him, or anybody for that matter, out on speculation.

plus, if he doesn't make it in, who from this era goes in? the entire last 10-15 years are tainted. are they gonna have to second guess everybody?

him and bonds are first ballot hall of famers without a doubt.

[LeftWideOpen]

alan schwarz was on Outside the Lines this morning and I pretty much agree with him ..

he isnt a first ballot HOFer because of the suspicion, but if we're 10 years down the road and we still have no proof ..he goes in. You can't keep him out based on rumors or your gut feeling, but that doesnt mean you have to vote him in right away. I think voters should vote no for now, but in doing so they suspend any judgment beyond their uncertainty.

[bigmike]

alan schwarz was on Outside the Lines this morning and I pretty much agree with him ..

he isnt a first ballot HOFer because of the suspicion, but if we're 10 years down the road and we still have no proof ..he goes in. You can't keep him out based on rumors or your gut feeling, but that doesnt mean you have to vote him in right away. I think voters should vote no for now, but in doing so they suspend any judgment beyond their uncertainty.
exactly. i agree with that as well. although, i think barry bonds is a first ballot guy, base solely on the first half of his career.

what about sosa? Palmeiro?

[NetNerdsRevenge]

I said eventually because of what he did baseball, but his career is tainted. However, thats how I feel. I think the voters will vote him in and set precedent for coming years. I dont think its the right move, but its what I can see happening.

[ActorInThisPlay]

he'll get in the hall, maybe not on the first ballot but he will. McGwire and Sosa basically saved baseball with their homerun race.

[ThriftWhore]

McGwire won't go in on the first ballot, but he will eventually get in. With Sosa and Palmeiro, I don't really know. Between the two of them, i'd say Sammy has a better shot to get in because Palmeiro tested positive after being a public symbol at the supreme court hearings.

Unless there is a positive test, i don't think it should keep them out. Sure, some of their home-runs or records may be tainted- but how do we know that others aren't? There's no way to tell and to start to pick and choose where to embarass an athlete and ban them from the hall of fame, or even baseball.

[leafsacc]

I voted "never" more out of wishfull thinking. I think he'll go in eventually unless something is discovered, but it depends on how much that day in court plays on the minds of the writers doing the voting.

[leftstranded]

he'll get in eventually. not right away however

[The Matt Kaufman]

he'll get in eventually. not right away however

I agree..he'll probably get in just because he broke the initial Roger Maris record and brought a lot of fans back..with the steroids though it just wont be the first time..

[mikeford]

hopefully never.

[Caleb Cattivera]

he was a great player before he juiced.

[mikeford]

he was a great player before he juiced.

he'd been juicin since oakland my man

[FondestMemory]

he was a great player before he juiced.

thing is, you don't know when he was juiced. there's no way to know when he started. when he quit. when he took time off. there's actually no proof that he did it at all.

with that said, how could anybody not vote him in first ballot?

[Broken Parachute]

thing is, you don't know when he was juiced. there's no way to know when he started. when he quit. when he took time off. there's actually no proof that he did it at all.

with that said, how could anybody not vote him in first ballot?
There is still a question of whether he did or did not, they have to take that into account because if he did juice up, and he's in the HOF, that's fucked up.

[mikeford]

as much as a piece of shit jose canseco is, most of whats in that book is true.

[FondestMemory]

There is still a question of whether he did or did not, they have to take that into account because if he did juice up, and he's in the HOF, that's fucked up.

but, to me it's easier to take that away from him. if he's in the hall, and 5 years go by and something then comes out, strip him of that. if he's not in, and 5 years go by and nothing comes out, the dude's been made to wait for nothing.

i honestly feel the only one that should be left out without a doubt is palmeiro. he's the only one with a failed test.

[ActorInThisPlay]

I still think he should get in...if you are going to keep one person out for doing steroids, you have to keep them all out and there is no way to determine who did and who didn't do steroids considering how prominent they were.

[The Matt Kaufman]

I still think he should get in...if you are going to keep one person out for doing steroids, you have to keep them all out and there is no way to determine who did and who didn't do steroids considering how prominent they were.

precisely...these guys should get in and we allow all types of hoodlums in the hall of fame but yet what I dont understand is why Pete Rose isnt in the hall of fame...Im guessing thats been discussed a few times around here.

[Jesse2]

I think most people involved with baseball have a "gut feeling" about who is clean and who is dirty. Unfortunately, you can't keep someone out based on gut feelings, but I don't think they'll be in any rush to vote for mcgwire/sosa/bonds, etc.

[The Matt Kaufman]

I think most people involved with baseball have a "gut feeling" about who is clean and who is dirty. Unfortunately, you can't keep someone out based on gut feelings, but I don't think they'll be in any rush to vote for mcgwire/sosa/bonds, etc.

Agreed..but even before they were juiced (at least Bonds) they were decent players..although McGwire seemed like he juiced up from day one..Bonds looked mad skinny in the late 80s

[Jesse2]

Agreed..but even before they were juiced (at least Bonds) they were decent players..although McGwire seemed like he juiced up from day one..Bonds looked mad skinny in the late 80s

"decent" doesn't get you into the HOF

[The Matt Kaufman]

"decent" doesn't get you into the HOF

they were slightly above decent but I dont know if it was due to steriods etc..Bonds was still an allstar and hit a lot when he looked like a stick

[Jesse2]

they were slightly above decent but I dont know if it was due to steriods etc..Bonds was still an allstar and hit a lot when he looked like a stick

okay, but you get my point. steroids don't make shitty players amazing. they turn good players into monsters.

i don't doubt that some of those roiders could have made the HOF regardless, bonds certainly included, but it's impossible to know what was a result of the steroids and what was a result of their talent/hard work/practice.

[The Matt Kaufman]

okay, but you get my point. steroids don't make shitty players amazing. they turn good players into monsters.

i don't doubt that some of those roiders could have made the HOF regardless, bonds certainly included, but it's impossible to know what was a result of the steroids and what was a result of their talent/hard work/practice.

Oh exactly..thats what I figured you were going at. You gotta be decent before taking steroids otherwise instead of just being a "bum" your a "large bum"...hahahha sorry had to make the joke..Im wondering about Griffey considering he was hurt for 4 years if he was on roids in his hayday in the 90s.

[mikeford]

mcguire had the talent but not the physical makeup in the beginning (go peep his rookie card), the steroids pushed him over the mountain top. dude was definitely juiced all through oakland bash brothers era and the 98 HR chase.

but yeah, they dont make shitty players amazing (hello jeremy giambi....), they give certain people the push over the top.

[Jesse2]

Oh exactly..thats what I figured you were going at. You gotta be decent before taking steroids otherwise instead of just being a "bum" your a "large bum"...hahahha sorry had to make the joke..Im wondering about Griffey considering he was hurt for 4 years if he was on roids in his hayday in the 90s.

i seriously doubt griffey was juiced. i've followed him from day 1 (living in seattle) and there was never an abnormal jump in his performance.

plus he has the greatest swing i have ever seen

[The Matt Kaufman]

mcguire had the talent but not the physical makeup in the beginning (go peep his rookie card), the steroids pushed him over the mountain top. dude was definitely juiced all through oakland bash brothers era and the 98 HR chase.

but yeah, they dont make shitty players amazing (hello jeremy giambi....), they give certain people the push over the top.

heh jeremy giambi..too bad he didnt juice like his brother..what a piece of garbage he was

[Caleb Cattivera]

i seriously doubt griffey was juiced. i've followed him from day 1 (living in seattle) and there was never an abnormal jump in his performance.

plus he has the greatest swing i have ever seen

if anyone says griffey juiced, they're fucking stupid. dude's been a rail since day one. he just has natural power.

[jaimej]

alan schwarz was on Outside the Lines this morning and I pretty much agree with him ..

he isnt a first ballot HOFer because of the suspicion, but if we're 10 years down the road and we still have no proof ..he goes in. You can't keep him out based on rumors or your gut feeling, but that doesnt mean you have to vote him in right away. I think voters should vote no for now, but in doing so they suspend any judgment beyond their uncertainty.
Well put.

[The Matt Kaufman]

if anyone says griffey juiced, they're fucking stupid. dude's been a rail since day one. he just has natural power.

Yeah the guy looks like a twig but nobody can tell whether maybe he has juiced up..I love the guy's swing but you never know...sometimes steroids dont make you that big? (Not sure but just a thought)

[silentgoodbye]

HoF eventually. That guy was a beast..

[bigmike]

if anyone says griffey juiced, they're fucking stupid. dude's been a rail since day one. he just has natural power.
And he's got the best homerun swing in the game of baseball today.

[ActorInThisPlay]

And he's got the best homerun swing in the game of baseball today.
yeah it sucks that he got injured so much...I would have loved to see where he would be if he had stayed healthy all those years.

[bigmike]

yeah it sucks that he got injured so much...I would have loved to see where he would be if he had stayed healthy all those years.
it would be amazing if he never got hurt. it's the best swing i've ever seen in my lifetime. hands down.