Official Carlos Beltran is better than you thread

[MrMet]

Another grandslam!

[MrMet]

That makes 3 in one month.

[xearlynovemberx]

mvp

[MrMet]

unbelievable

[xearlynovemberx]

unbelievable

he really is

[brutusUbastard]

fuck

[xearlynovemberx]

fuck

:lol:

[MrMet]

We are going to score like 17 runs this game.

[xearlynovemberx]

We are going to score like 17 runs this game.

imagine beltran were to hit another gs?

[brutusUbastard]

the mets proved me wrong...

after the emabarrasining stent in chicago i thought their season was in the shitter.

and after the braves lost the series to florida I knew it was over for them.

[brutusUbastard]

We are going to score like 17 runs this game.

13 or 15

[MrMet]

Maybe the brave's fans will finally shut their mouths with them going to be about 15 games out after today.

[xearlynovemberx]

christ im better then woodward

[brutusUbastard]

Maybe the brave's fans will finally shut their mouth with them going to be about 15 games out after today.

yep my mouth has been wide open

[jaimej]

He should not be wasting his time in the NL.

[xearlynovemberx]

He should not be wasting his time in the NL.

your just angry the yankees didnt get him :neiner:

[mcm1610]

What was the final score of the yankees game last night? I assume they lost, becuase I stopped paying attention at 19-5 TB. That, coupled with the Boston comeback yesterday made me a happy fan.

[xearlynovemberx]

What was the final score of the yankees game last night? I assume they lost, becuase I stopped paying attention at 19-5 TB. That, coupled with the Boston comeback yesterday made me a happy fan.

19-6

[Anton Djamoos]

The Mets are finally gonna win the NL East, I'm so happy.

[jaimej]

Moved to sports.

[brutusUbastard]

The Braves will be lucky if they get wildcard...

goddamnit

[MrMet]

haha the brave's announcer just got all excited about the braves hitting a double. "THATS A START" haha

[brutusUbastard]

At least the next few series for both Philly and Florida will fuck them both

[MrMet]

Chipper Jones was smart to get out with an injury while he could.

[xearlynovemberx]

The Mets are finally gonna win the NL East, I'm so happy.

me too!

[brutusUbastard]

Chipper Jones was smart to get out with an injury while he could.

what the fuck...

are you seriously going to be that big of an ass and shit all over the an organiztion who set the record for most consecutive dvisions?

a team that keeps that title out of the hands of the Yankees?

[MrMet]

what the fuck...

are you seriously going to be that big of an ass and shit all over the an organiztion who set the record for most consecutive dvisions?

a team that keeps that title out of the hands of the Yankees?

I'm a mascot, it's my job to mock other teams.

[xearlynovemberx]

tom glavine fucking sucks big fucking dick

[MrMet]

Looks like another 4-5 inning game for tommy.

[xearlynovemberx]

tom glavine should just fucking hang it up what a scumbag

[brutusUbastard]

geez, you northern fans are assholes aren't you?

a player does bad and you guys boo them and want to slit their throat. jesus christ.

[xearlynovemberx]

geez, you northern fans are assholes aren't you?

a player does bad and you guys boo them and want to slit their throat. jesus christ.

theres no reason he should have given up those 3 runs

[MrMet]

I'm a member of the Jose Valentin's Sexy Fun Mustache Club on facebook.

[xearlynovemberx]

I'm a member of the Jose Valentin's Sexy Fun Mustache Club on facebook.

that would be reason enough for me to join

[MrMet]

geez, you northern fans are assholes aren't you?

a player does bad and you guys boo them and want to slit their throat. jesus christ.

It's called playing in new york.

[xearlynovemberx]

another gs?

[mcm1610]

I bet I'm better at math and speaking English than Carlos Beltran is.

[xearlynovemberx]

I bet I'm better at math and speaking English than Carlos Beltran is.

perhaps

[MrMet]

Wondering where Kaz Matsui is? Jose Valentin's moustache ate him.

[Split2nd]

Can we make an Official MLB Thread? Oh wait...

[xearlynovemberx]

Wondering where Kaz Matsui is? Jose Valentin's moustache ate him.

hahha, kaz is he even playing in colorado?

[MrMet]

hahha, kaz is he even playing in colorado?

I think he's injured not sure. That or he's in the minors. I think their also might be a missing person report on him.

[brutusUbastard]

Fuckfuckfuck

[xearlynovemberx]

Fuckfuckfuck

if he hits another 1....

[MrMet]

damn. we needed another grand slam.

[xearlynovemberx]

damn. we needed another grand slam.

hes been playing terrible lately..its very upsetting

[MrMet]

hes been playing terrible lately..its very upsetting

I know it. what the fuck already.

[xearlynovemberx]

I know it. what the fuck already.

id rather him slump now

[MrMet]

Brutus: If it makes you feel any better I am also in the Bring Back Chief Knockahoma facebook group.

[xearlynovemberx]

Brutus: If it makes you feel any better I am also in the Bring Back Chief Knockahoma facebook group.

hahhaha, best thing ever

[MrMet]

atleast glavine is getting run support to make up for his terrible pitching performance.

[xearlynovemberx]

atleast glavine is getting run support to make up for his terrible pitching performance.

it was just that 1 bad inning

[MrMet]

it was just that 1 bad inning

true

[xearlynovemberx]

true

lets see how he does now

[MrMet]

lets see how he does now

*fingers crossed*

[xearlynovemberx]

*fingers crossed*

maybe we should cross dicks 2

(movie refrence if you saw it)

[MrMet]

What movie? i missed it.

[xearlynovemberx]

What movie? i missed it.

clerks 2

[MrMet]

Yeah I gotta see it.

[xearlynovemberx]

Yeah I gotta see it.

fucking tom glavine

[MrMet]

They are only leaving him because starting pitchers must pitch 5 full innings to be allowed to officially get him a win. That and Willie Randolph is a moron.

[xearlynovemberx]

They are only leaving him because starting pitchers must pitch 5 full innings to be allowed to officially get him a win. That and Willie Randolph is a moron.

hahah, if he could win this game that would be amazing

[MrMet]

another homer by beltran. This just isn't fair lol.

[xearlynovemberx]

another homer by beltran. This just isn't fair lol.

lol

[MrMet]

yup

[MrMet]

This game is still too close. 3 runs isn't that much.

[MrMet]

Tyler Yates the ex-met with a 1-2-3 inning.

[xearlynovemberx]

i like chad bradford

[MrMet]

i like chad bradford

yeah he's been a pretty solid option out of the pen for us.

[xearlynovemberx]

yeah he's been a pretty solid option out of the pen for us.

ditto with felciano

[selftitled85]

i still find it funny that he was pretty much despised for his lack of production last year. and now he is ruling.

[xearlynovemberx]

i still find it funny that he was pretty much despised for his lack of production last year. and now he is ruling.

everyone expected this type of year last year i know i did and he was shit but now that hes playing good fuckin a

[xbrokendownx]

haha the same carlos beltran that all mets fans hated last year? :)





i keed, i keed.

[ThriftWhore]

I'm incredibly happy that Beltran is having the year we expected out of him from last year.

[The Matt Kaufman]

Can this be like the official Lets Go Mets thread?

[justinevans]

beltran guzzles semen.

[fcknazisympathy]

beltran guzzles semen.

david wright too that ******

[justinevans]

david wright too that ******

nah, I personally know David Wright does not like gay people.

[xearlynovemberx]

david wright too that ******

coming from a yankee fan full of cum guzzlers

[justinevans]

coming from a yankee fan full of cum guzzlers

what do they live inside him?

[xearlynovemberx]

arod swallows more then he makes errors

oh and dont be jealous our cf and 3b are better

[xbrokendownx]

arod swallows more then he makes errors

oh and dont be jealous our cf and 3b are better






thats fine, our catcher, 2b, rf (abreu) and 1b are all better, so its all good :)

[The Matt Kaufman]

thats fine, our catcher, 2b, rf (abreu) and 1b are all better, so its all good :)

I dont really feel like debating but you think that...fasano (yes not the everyday catcher) made a great throw yesterday while the yankees lost 19-6...

[xearlynovemberx]

thats fine, our catcher, 2b, rf (abreu) and 1b are all better, so its all good :)

giambi delgado is a toss up

[xbrokendownx]

I dont really feel like debating but you think that...fasano (yes not the everyday catcher) made a great throw yesterday while the yankees lost 19-6...





so? he made one bad play, that doenst make him a bad player



fasano is what he is- a solid backup catcher, at least defensively

[justinevans]

thats fine, our catcher, 2b, rf (abreu) and 1b are all better, so its all good :)

you forgot ss.

[bigmike]

so this is basically why the majority of all NY fans, regardless of the sport, fucking suck.

[justinevans]

so this is basically why the majority of all NY fans, regardless of the sport, fucking suck.

why?

[bigmike]

why?
david wright's a ******.

no arod's a ******.

don't be upset because we've got a better cf, 1b, ss, 3b manager, stadium, blue seats, trainers, mascots that give rim jobs

blah blah blah. ridiculous.

[justinevans]

david wright's a ******.

no arod's a ******.

don't be upset because we've got a better cf, 1b, ss, 3b manager, stadium, blue seats, trainers, mascots that give rim jobs

blah blah blah. ridiculous.

panties in a bunch over detroit being the shittiest city ever?

[justinevans]

david wright's a ******.

no arod's a ******.

don't be upset because we've got a better cf, 1b, ss, 3b manager, stadium, blue seats, trainers, mascots that give rim jobs

blah blah blah. ridiculous.

btw you close to Farmington Hills? I know some girls from there.

[The Matt Kaufman]

david wright's a ******.

no arod's a ******.

don't be upset because we've got a better cf, 1b, ss, 3b manager, stadium, blue seats, trainers, mascots that give rim jobs

blah blah blah. ridiculous.

hahaha so true..which is why Im like fine whatever believe what you want..I mean our hot dogs at shea taste better (Joking joking joking..who cares)

[The Matt Kaufman]

panties in a bunch over detroit being the shittiest city ever?

hahahaa..jersey attitude at its best

[justinevans]

hahaha so true..which is why Im like fine whatever believe what you want..I mean our hot dogs at shea taste better (Joking joking joking..who cares)

he was making fun of mets fans too.

[justinevans]

hahahaa..jersey attitude at its best

it is though. he'll admit it.

[bigmike]

panties in a bunch over detroit being the shittiest city ever?
I wouldn't know considering i live on the otherside of the state. Shit talk Detroit all you want. I think i'm actually closer to Chicago than Detroit.


btw you close to Farmington Hills? I know some girls from there.
No. see above.

[justinevans]

I wouldn't know considering i live on the otherside of the state. Shit talk Detroit all you want. I think i'm actually closer to Chicago than Detroit.



No. see above.

hahah I know some upers too? i don't know how you spell it.

[bigmike]

hahah I know some upers too? i don't know how you spell it.
upers work. i don't ever call them that because it sounds retarded to me, but i know what you meant.

why do you know people in michigan.

[justinevans]

upers work. i don't ever call them that because it sounds retarded to me, but i know what you meant.

why do you know people in michigan.

i went to northwood university, the main campus is in midland, michigan...i went to the one in palm beach, fl

[bigmike]

i went to northwood university, the main campus is in midland, michigan...i went to the one in palm beach, fl
oh nice. northwood's expensive isn't it? a few of my brother's friends went there. the one in michigan, i mean.

[bigmike]

oh, and seriously, the city of detroit does fucking suck. just for the record.

[justinevans]

oh nice. northwood's expensive isn't it? a few of my brother's friends went there. the one in michigan, i mean.

sorta I guess. including room and board it is like 22,000-24,000 I forget. I just paid tuition and lived in a condo

[bigmike]

sorta I guess. including room and board it is like 22,000-24,000 I forget. I just paid tuition and lived in a condo
nice. not bad for going to school in florida.

[justinevans]

nice. not bad for going to school in florida.

nope

[The Matt Kaufman]

he was making fun of mets fans too.

I know..I can care less though whatever he thinks but hes got a good point and I dont disagree..I try to stay away from the stupid arguements because they dont go anywhere.

[MrMet]

ok im going to skip the last 3 pages of arguments because they are irrelevant, so i'll get straight to the point. Billy Wagner = garbage

[justinevans]

ok im going to skip the last 3 pages of arguments because they are irrelevant, so i'll get straight to the point. Billy Wagner = garbage

Deal with that scumbag.

[histrionics22]

Mets still overpaid for a career .282 hitter based off one good postseason series. Last year is the norm for him. This year is an aberration.

And Mets fans laughing at Kaz Matsui, you do realize you are still paying like 5.7 million for him to be on the Rockies.

[The Matt Kaufman]

Mets still overpaid for a career .282 hitter based off one good postseason series. Last year is the norm for him. This year is an aberration.

And Mets fans laughing at Kaz Matsui, you do realize you are still paying like 5.7 million for him to be on the Rockies.
look at what the guy has done in Kansas City and houston previously. http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/beltrca01.shtml

This year is the norm for him and last year isnt. Forget about Matsui. Hes garbage.

Billy Benitezrojas. Hes a piece of trash too

[histrionics22]

look at what the guy has done in Kansas City and houston previously. http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/beltrca01.shtml

This year is the norm for him and last year isnt. Forget about Matsui. Hes garbage.

Billy Benitezrojas. Hes a piece of trash too
Are you looking at the same numbers I am?

[The Matt Kaufman]

22hr 108 rbis-99
24hr 101 rbis-2001
29hr 101 rbis-2002
26hr 100 rbis-2003
38hr 104 rbi-2004

whats wrong with those numbers?? Hes hitting good numbers even before his peak (In my opinion)..im confused on what your point is..forget last years numbers.he was hurt

[histrionics22]

22hr 108 rbis-99
24hr 101 rbis-2001
29hr 101 rbis-2002
26hr 100 rbis-2003
38hr 104 rbi-2004

whats wrong with those numbers?? Hes hitting good numbers even before his peak (In my opinion)..im confused on what your point is..forget last years numbers.he was hurt
All while playing on a subpar team. He's only had 2 years of batting over .300. In fact, in his free agent year (2004), he batted .278 in KC and a paltry .258 in Houston. Wow he hit 23 home runs for Houston. How many home runs did Morgan Ensberg hit last year in the joke of a ballpark in Houston? Again, he was paid based on what he did in the postseason, which was an anomaly.

[The Matt Kaufman]

All while playing on a subpar team. He's only had 2 years of batting over .300. In fact, in his free agent year (2004), he batted .278 in KC and a paltry .258 in Houston. Wow he hit 23 home runs for Houston. How many home runs did Morgan Ensberg hit last year in the joke of a ballpark in Houston? Again, he was paid based on what he did in the postseason, which was an anomaly.

playing for a subpar team yes your right. The guy doenst hit much for average but obviously it looks like he gets the hits when it counts with the homeruns and RBIs. I dont know how many homeruns Morgan Ensberg hit. Yes you are right that he was paid based on what he did in the postseason but even so the guy has numbers to back it up. Having a 4-5 100+ RBI seasons before the age of 30 means your pretty good in my book.

[MrMet]

Deal with that scumbag.

however... Billy Wagner > paris1sinflames

[justinevans]

however... Billy Wagner > paris1sinflames

diarrhea > MrMet

[histrionics22]

diarrhea > MrMet
Mets fairweather fans > MrMet

[The Matt Kaufman]

Mets fairweather fans > MrMet
Dont even get me started on fairweathers...thats the one thing I hate about all sports when a team wins..all of the sudden all these random people are fans...

[Broken Parachute]

Mvp

[The Matt Kaufman]

David Wright should be MVP..Beltran will be runner up

[Broken Parachute]

David Wright should be MVP..Beltran will be runner up
Beltran has better stats in every category except for average.

[we are cured]

All while playing on a subpar team. He's only had 2 years of batting over .300. In fact, in his free agent year (2004), he batted .278 in KC and a paltry .258 in Houston. Wow he hit 23 home runs for Houston. How many home runs did Morgan Ensberg hit last year in the joke of a ballpark in Houston? Again, he was paid based on what he did in the postseason, which was an anomaly.

Anybody who is an AVERAGE 100 RBI man and a career .282 hitter is worth a lot of money. The amount of money he got? Maybe not, but when multiple teams are bidding on a player, it drives his market value up.

And last year was not the norm for him, as he was 16 points below his career batting average and 23 RBI below his average number per full season. Is his home-run hitting this year an abberration? Maybe, because he does benefit from a lineup in which there are few if any weaknesses. Still, he's doing it, so he's officially better than you.

[we are cured]

Dont even get me started on fairweathers...thats the one thing I hate about all sports when a team wins..all of the sudden all these random people are fans...

I don't really mind it (except for the traffic on the LIE and Grand Central)..Shea gets a hell of a lot louder when they come out, and you know in your heart that you love the team way more than they do.

[The Matt Kaufman]

I don't really mind it (except for the traffic on the LIE and Grand Central)..Shea gets a hell of a lot louder when they come out, and you know in your heart that you love the team way more than they do.

Oh of course..during the 2 years of the red sox yankees fiasco nobody ever questioned that I was a mets fan because I knew our time would come..which is nice. I do see a lot more Mets stickers now on cars (I put my frame on my car finally...girlfriend is proud of me). I will see how Shea erupts when they come out on Saturday as I am going to the game. Cant wait!

Things are definitely sweeter when you wait and celebrate versus jumping on the bandwagon

[The Matt Kaufman]

Anybody who is an AVERAGE 100 RBI man and a career .282 hitter is worth a lot of money. The amount of money he got? Maybe not, but when multiple teams are bidding on a player, it drives his market value up.

And last year was not the norm for him, as he was 16 points below his career batting average and 23 RBI below his average number per full season. Is his home-run hitting this year an abberration? Maybe, because he does benefit from a lineup in which there are few if any weaknesses. Still, he's doing it, so he's officially better than you.

Thank you very much for that point..better said than me

[we are cured]

Oh of course..during the 2 years of the red sox yankees fiasco nobody ever questioned that I was a mets fan because I knew our time would come..which is nice. I do see a lot more Mets stickers now on cars (I put my frame on my car finally...girlfriend is proud of me). I will see how Shea erupts when they come out on Saturday as I am going to the game. Cant wait!

Things are definitely sweeter when you wait and celebrate versus jumping on the bandwagon

Yeah I think I'm going Saturday as well. Or Sunday. Depends on the night before.

[The Matt Kaufman]

Yeah I think I'm going Saturday as well. Or Sunday. Depends on the night before.
Oh nice..I hope theres more mets fans than usual on the 7 train...Im going with a phillies fan believe it or not..probably will cue some laughter

Where do you usually sit? Im getting hooked up so Ill probably be 3rd row from the field..

[Split2nd]

This year is an aberration for Beltran IMO. He's good, but not this good.

I find it funny you guys are arguing over average and RBIs.... average fluctuates like crazy and RBIs are team dependent. A career .282/.353/.492 hitter is putting up.285/.388/.638. Improvement is understandable, but not this much. Unless he's completely changed his stance or something about him, I don't buy it. He's a solid .280/.370/.520 hitter with great basestealing capabilities but I don't think he's the MVP like he's playing right now.

Also histrionics, I used to argue the same thing as you, but I got served up a while back... in '04 Beltran's OPS away was .300 points higher than his OPS at home, and hit 8 more HRs on the road... so the Houston being a bandbox argument is bunk.

[histrionics22]

This year is an aberration for Beltran IMO. He's good, but not this good.

I find it funny you guys are arguing over average and RBIs.... average fluctuates like crazy and RBIs are team dependent. A career .282/.353/.492 hitter is putting up.285/.388/.638. Improvement is understandable, but not this much. Unless he's completely changed his stance or something about him, I don't buy it. He's a solid .280/.370/.520 hitter with great basestealing capabilities but I don't think he's the MVP like he's playing right now.

Also histrionics, I used to argue the same thing as you, but I got served up a while back... in '04 Beltran's OPS away was .300 points higher than his OPS at home, and hit 8 more HRs on the road... so the Houston being a bandbox argument is bunk.
So the numbers lied. I still think Enron Field is a joke of a park.

[MrMet]

If you think Beltran sucks, you have something wrong with you. Seriously.

[histrionics22]

If you think Beltran sucks, you have something wrong with you. Seriously.
If you think he's worth the contract he got with the Mets you have something wrong with you. Seriously.

[xearlynovemberx]

If you think he's worth the contract he got with the Mets you have something wrong with you. Seriously.

his salary=the whole fucking payroll of the pirates

[Broken Parachute]

If you think he's worth the contract he got with the Mets you have something wrong with you. Seriously.
What team are you a fan for, anyway?

[The Matt Kaufman]

What team are you a fan for, anyway?

good point...I think he likes the pirates?

[Broken Parachute]

good point...I think he likes the pirates?
HAHAHA
Pirates fans' comments don't count (except for Vince's).

[MrMet]

Free Xavier Nady!

[MrMet]

and yeah my sig is hot.

[histrionics22]

HAHAHA
Pirates fans' comments don't count (except for Vince's).

Hey wow. Sorry we don't play in the largest market in North America. At least I stay loyal to my teams unlike 1/2 of all New York fans.

[MrMet]

his salary=the whole fucking payroll of the pirates

Mr. Met's salary = the whole payroll of the pirates.

[histrionics22]

Mr. Met's salary = the whole payroll of the pirates.
I dont get the point of these posts. Everyone knows the Pirate payroll is low. Only people with little knowledge dont know the economic situation of Pittsburgh.

[Split2nd]

So the numbers lied. I still think Enron Field is a joke of a park.
As do I... I don't want to get into the '05 playoffs...

[Split2nd]

Is it funny to make fun of the Pirates' payroll ? Yeah wow, that should be the reason you shouldn't be laughing, because they can spend 1/5 of what your team spends and still beat your team on any given night

[MrMet]

Is it funny to make fun of the Pirates' payroll ? Yeah wow, that should be the reason you shouldn't be laughing, because they can spend 1/5 of what your team spends and still beat your team on any given night

I agree. Just look at the Pirate's awesome record.

[xbrokendownx]

mr met likes the cock














....yeah, i said it.

[Split2nd]

mr met likes the cock














....yeah, i said it.
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/mark_bechtel/08/17/daily.blog/p1_phanatic.jpg>> http://pages.prodigy.com/lemus/mrmet/mrmet4.jpg

[MrMet]

mr met likes the cock














....yeah, i said it.


And Mr. Met just checked out your last fm account. How's the new Nsync album?

[MrMet]

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/mark_bechtel/08/17/daily.blog/p1_phanatic.jpg>> http://pages.prodigy.com/lemus/mrmet/mrmet4.jpg

Phillie Phanatic is in a Mr. Met Fan Group on facebook. Enough said.

[xbrokendownx]

And Mr. Met just checked out your last fm account. How's the new Nsync album?






nsync doesnt have a new album, you silly goose you.



and im sorry, girlfriend is a badass song (the nelly remix)

[bigmike]

I don't know if anyone's said it yet but:

Andruw Jones >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vernon Wells > Carlos Beltran.

/thread.

[xbrokendownx]

I don't know if anyone's said it yet but:

Andruw Jones >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vernon Wells > Carlos Beltran.

/thread.






this man speaks the truth

[MrMet]

nsync doesnt have a new album, you silly goose you.



and im sorry, girlfriend is a badass song (the nelly remix)

badass song, perhaps because you've never had one?

[MrMet]

I don't know if anyone's said it yet but:

Andruw Jones >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vernon Wells > Carlos Beltran.

/thread.

compare the stats.

[xbrokendownx]

badass song, perhaps because you've never had one?






youre handle and "character" is of a mascot for a baseball team, and youre ripping on me?


oh sweet irony

[xbrokendownx]

compare the stats.





Andruw Jones: 326 HRs, 985 RBI, .267 avg, 918 runs
Vernon Wells: 135 HRs, 473 RBI, .290 avg, 447 runs
Carlos Beltran: 195 HRs, 743 RBI, .282 avg, 782 runs


you were saying?

and do you even want to go into defense?

[Split2nd]

I don't really want to get into this, but my basic stance on it is this

Beltran is most likely slightly better than Andruw offensively, but Andruw is ahead of him defensively, by a lot IMO. Vernon Wells has had a great year, two atrocious ones, and this year he's been fantastic. I'd like to see more consistency but I think he could be the best of the three if he continues to put up numbers like this.

They're all very similar/good players. Andruw's worth will never be what it could be until he raises his OBP above .350

[mattregan]

Hasn't Andrew Jones played more seasons then Carlos??? Also I think it's pretty stupid that you guys are fighting with someone who has a mascot as a username. It's actually kind of funny. It's no different than any of your screen names.

[Split2nd]

Hasn't Andrew Jones played more seasons then Carlos??? Also I think it's pretty stupid that you guys are fighting with someone who has a mascot as a username. It's actually kind of funny. It's no different than any of your screen names.
Yeah but the difference is we're not dickheads.

[mattregan]

Yeah but the difference is we're not dickheads.

I haven't seen all the posts, but it seems that he was only defending himself. I could be wrong.

[bigmike]

compare the stats.
okay.

Average Seasons:

Andruw Jones, 29 years old, 10 Seasons:
.267, 34 HR, 100 RBI, 157 H, 31 DBL, .845 OPS, 89.5 Runs Created, 8 Gold Gloves (1998-2005), .990 Fielding %

-through age 28, his numbers are comparable to: Frank Robinson, Ruben Sierra, Al Kaline, Eddie Mathews, Ron Santo, Ken Griffey, Hank Aaron, Darryl Strawberry, Juan Gonzalez, Barry Bonds.
# of HOFer's? 4

Vernon Wells, 27 years old, 7 Seasons:
.285, 26 HR, 96 RBI, 182 H, 39 DBL, .811 OPS, 59.7 Runs Created, 2 Gold Gloves (04-05), .994 Fielding %

-through age 26 his numbers are comparable to: Ellis Valentine, bobby Murcer, Andrew Dawson, Shawn Green, Billy Williams, Ellis Burks, Reggie Smith, Gary Sheffield, Vic Wertz.
# of HOFer's? 1

Carlos Beltran, 29 years old, 8 Seasons:
.282, 25 HR, 101 RBI, 178 H, 32 DBL, .829 OPS, 85.25 Runs Created, 0 Gold Gloves, .982 Fielding %
-through age 28 his numbers are comparable to: Andre Dawson, Dave Winfield, Jack Clark, Bobby Bonds, Reggie Smith, Gus Bell, Dale Muphy, Harold Baines, Johnny Callison, Billy Williams.
# of HOFers? 2.

[xbrokendownx]

i cannot believe andruw jones isnt even fucking 30 yet

[mattregan]

Beltran's going to hit atleast 40 home runs this year though, so that would bump those average stats up.

[xbrokendownx]

Beltran's going to hit atleast 40 home runs this year though, so that would bump those average stats up.





morgan ensberg hit 36 hr's last year...whats your point? one good year doesnt make you a good player.


(im n ot saying beltran isnt a good player)

[bigmike]

Beltran's going to hit atleast 40 home runs this year though, so that would bump those average stats up.
yes. but it's not like andruw and vernon wells aren't going to have bad years. andruw's on pace for 39 HRs. i didn't check wells, but his is probably up there as well. thus, their averages go up. beltran's year won't make his number like, double.

[mattregan]

morgan ensberg hit 36 hr's last year...whats your point? one good year doesnt make you a good player.


(im n ot saying beltran isnt a good player)

My point is Beltran's numbers are going to be about even or better than Jones, minus the gold gloves.

[bigmike]

My point is Beltran's numbers are going to be about even or better than Jones, minus the gold gloves.
no they won't, andruw jones is having an above average season, as well. therefore his numbers will go up. Beltran's HR's, fielding %, etc aren't going to dramatically change because of 1 way above average season for him.

[The Matt Kaufman]

okay.

Average Seasons:

Andruw Jones, 29 years old, 10 Seasons:
.267, 34 HR, 100 RBI, 157 H, 31 DBL, .845 OPS, 89.5 Runs Created, 8 Gold Gloves (1998-2005), .990 Fielding %

-through age 28, his numbers are comparable to: Frank Robinson, Ruben Sierra, Al Kaline, Eddie Mathews, Ron Santo, Ken Griffey, Hank Aaron, Darryl Strawberry, Juan Gonzalez, Barry Bonds.
# of HOFer's? 4

Vernon Wells, 27 years old, 7 Seasons:
.285, 26 HR, 96 RBI, 182 H, 39 DBL, .811 OPS, 59.7 Runs Created, 2 Gold Gloves (04-05), .994 Fielding %

-through age 26 his numbers are comparable to: Ellis Valentine, bobby Murcer, Andrew Dawson, Shawn Green, Billy Williams, Ellis Burks, Reggie Smith, Gary Sheffield, Vic Wertz.
# of HOFer's? 1

Carlos Beltran, 29 years old, 8 Seasons:
.282, 25 HR, 101 RBI, 178 H, 32 DBL, .829 OPS, 85.25 Runs Created, 0 Gold Gloves, .982 Fielding %
-through age 28 his numbers are comparable to: Andre Dawson, Dave Winfield, Jack Clark, Bobby Bonds, Reggie Smith, Gus Bell, Dale Muphy, Harold Baines, Johnny Callison, Billy Williams.
# of HOFers? 2.

Did you research this or know this off the top of your head?

[we are cured]

Jones is a beast, there's no doubt he has an edge on Beltran. What's great about Beltran, though, is that he's finally living up to the potential he set for himself after the 04 playoffs.

[The Matt Kaufman]

Jones is a beast, there's no doubt he has an edge on Beltran. What's great about Beltran, though, is that he's finally living up to the potential he set for himself after the 04 playoffs.
That is true..Andruw has been good for years and that was predicted when he showed up at a 19 year old in 1996..if he hit more homeruns he would have maybe 400+ homeruns

[bigmike]

Did you research this or know this off the top of your head?
Off the top of my head. the movie "Rain Man" was originally written about me.

kidding.

[MrMet]

Aaron Heilman, what's wrong with you?

[xbrokendownx]

Aaron Heilman, what's wrong with you?







hes not good, thats whats wrong with him

[The Matt Kaufman]

hes not good, thats whats wrong with him

precisely...he was good in college and has been a bum since being with the mets

[we are cured]

Heilman was much better when he switched up his arm angles. Now his ball is just ridiculously flat.

[The Matt Kaufman]

Heilman was much better when he switched up his arm angles. Now his ball is just ridiculously flat.

When he didnt have that sidearm bend down throw the ball approach?

If that makes sense

[we are cured]

When he didnt have that sidearm bend down throw the ball approach?

If that makes sense

yeah i hear you. i agree i mean it was great when he would come over the top and throw a breaking pitch, but then dip down low and throw one of those moving fastballs. he's had his moments.

[The Matt Kaufman]

yeah i hear you. i agree i mean it was great when he would come over the top and throw a breaking pitch, but then dip down low and throw one of those moving fastballs. he's had his moments.

Of course..I just wish he had more good than bad!

[histrionics22]

I agree. Just look at the Pirate's awesome record.
Keep knocking the Pirates. As Gorzelanny outpitches NL Cy Young candidate Carlos Zambrano, the team just keeps getting better. The Pirates will have one of the best pitching staff's in the league in 3 years.

[Split2nd]

Keep knocking the Pirates. As Gorzelanny outpitches NL Cy Young candidate Carlos Zambrano, the team just keeps getting better. The Pirates will have one of the best pitching staff's in the league in 3 years.
They have some nice prospects, but I wouldn't go that far. Snell-Duke-Gorzelanny is a nice trio, Maholm is an average pitcher, and they have a nice couple bullpen arms to go with Gonzo in Capps and Sharpless, but none of the three have proven all that much really. Their system hitting-wise blows outside of Walker and McCutchen.

[histrionics22]

They have some nice prospects, but I wouldn't go that far. Snell-Duke-Gorzelanny is a nice trio, Maholm is an average pitcher, and they have a nice couple bullpen arms to go with Gonzo in Capps and Sharpless, but none of the three have proven all that much really. Their system hitting-wise blows outside of Walker and McCutchen.
I have confidence in the pitchers. Paulino, our catcher is a ROTY candidate. Look for Brad Eldred or Ryan Doumit to play first in the future. I do agree they need to upgrade at a lot of positions, but young pitching is where it starts. Just ask the Tigers.

[bigmike]

Keep knocking the Pirates. As Gorzelanny outpitches NL Cy Young candidate Carlos Zambrano, the team just keeps getting better. The Pirates will have one of the best pitching staff's in the league in 3 years.
they will. it's just unfortuante for Pittsburgh that they'll be on about 5 different teams around the league after they trade them away.

[histrionics22]

they will. it's just unfortuante for Pittsburgh that they'll be on about 5 different teams around the league after they trade them away.
Not true. Unless they trade them away (which is a possibility given that Littlefield gave up on Perez at the ripe old age of 24). The days of the Pirates not spending money on home grown talent is over. Unfortunately, it was one year too late to keep Aramis Ramirez.

[bigmike]

Not true. Unless they trade them away (which is a possibility given that Littlefield gave up on Perez at the ripe old age of 24). The days of the Pirates not spending money on home grown talent is over. Unfortunately, it was one year too late to keep Aramis Ramirez.
i think you missed the last few words of what you quoted from me where i said "when they trade them away"

[histrionics22]

Haha I guess so.

[MrMet]

Mets have a bright young roster themselves. Bannister, Pelfrey, Maine, Humber, etc... I'll be surprised if 3 of those guys are with the team in 4 years though.

[histrionics22]

Freddy Sanchez > David Wright

[MrMet]

Atleast the game is actually on Fox today. Normally they show the Redsox game here.

[xearlynovemberx]

tom glavine fucking BLOWS

[xearlynovemberx]

finally an out

[MrMet]

With every start I'm losing more and more faith in him.

[xearlynovemberx]

With every start I'm losing more and more faith in him.

he should just hang it up

[MrMet]

he should just hang it up

He's a free agent after the season, so he might be gone. (atlanta) I still think he has something to offer though.

[xearlynovemberx]

He's a free agent after the season, so he might be gone. (atlanta) I still think he has something to offer though.

just get him off the mets

[xearlynovemberx]

everyday endy ftw

[MrMet]

just get him off the mets

It depends how he finishes the year. I think he could be a really good 5th starter, but not if he continues to pitch like garbage.

[justinevans]

well howard has more hrs and rbis now =)

[MrMet]

well howard has more hrs and rbis now =)

Howard is a beast.

[Split2nd]

Not too confident in either Doumit or Eldred. Doumit's a decent C, but not a good 1B. Eldred is old as fuck, and his contact skills in the minors were poor.

[Split2nd]

just get him off the mets
Jason Shiell > Tom Glavine

[Split2nd]

Jason Shiell > Tom Glavine
nvm. Who needs to acquire a starting pitcher when you've got the future ace of the Braves Jason Shiell and his 4,000 ERA?

[MrMet]

nvm. Who needs to acquire a starting pitcher when you've got the future ace of the Braves Jason Shiell and his 4,000 ERA?

haha.

[MrMet]

Thanks for the help Lieber.

[histrionics22]

Not too confident in either Doumit or Eldred. Doumit's a decent C, but not a good 1B. Eldred is old as fuck, and his contact skills in the minors were poor.
Doumit can easily play first with a little practice. Eldred needs to learn how to hit off speed pitches. He crushes fastballs.

[Split2nd]

Doumit can easily play first with a little practice. Eldred needs to learn how to hit off speed pitches. He crushes fastballs.
I wasn't talking about his defense. At 1B, his production is average at best. He's only had one good year power-wise and that was as a 24 year old at AAA, for only 51 games.

Learning how to hit offspeed pitches is a pretty big thing to learn. Anyone can crush a fastball.

[histrionics22]

I wasn't talking about his defense. At 1B, his production is average at best. He's only had one good year power-wise and that was as a 24 year old at AAA, for only 51 games.

Learning how to hit offspeed pitches is a pretty big thing to learn. Anyone can crush a fastball.
Yea in 51 games he hit 12 HRs and batted .345. He's showed glimpses of his power in the majors and theres no reason that when he's healthy he couldn't continue it.

Eldred still has a chance.

[xearlynovemberx]

nvm. Who needs to acquire a starting pitcher when you've got the future ace of the Braves Jason Shiell and his 4,000 ERA?


hahah

[Split2nd]

Yea in 51 games he hit 12 HRs and batted .345. He's showed glimpses of his power in the majors and theres no reason that when he's healthy he couldn't continue it.

Eldred still has a chance.
No reason? Other than the fact that those numbers are completely out of line with his entire minor league career? Or that he was older than the competition by a noticible margin? He's a decent catcher, but he'll be average at best at 1B offensively.

[MrMet]

Good to see the Mets sign Wright to a long term contract. Underpaid, but it's good to see him staying in Blue and Orange!

[The Matt Kaufman]

Good to see the Mets sign Wright to a long term contract. Underpaid, but it's good to see him staying in Blue and Orange!

A few days ago he didnt want an extention but its nice to see him and reyes locked up..hopefully theyll be a good core with milledge for years to come.

[MrMet]

A few days ago he didnt want an extention but its nice to see him and reyes locked up..hopefully theyll be a good core with milledge for years to come.

yeah they were going to wait untill next year to discuss it, but I think with the reyes signing and the pressure from whoever to get it done, they changed their mind.

[The Matt Kaufman]

yeah they were going to wait untill next year to discuss it, but I think with the reyes signing and the pressure from whoever to get it done, they changed their mind.

hey works for me. Maybe we'll even be able to get Jesus Kazmir (I know his name is Scott) to come back in 2011 and theyll all play on the same team..wow what a team that could be

[xbrokendownx]

hey works for me. Maybe we'll even be able to get Jesus Kazmir (I know his name is Scott) to come back in 2011 and theyll all play on the same team..wow what a team that could be





yeah with 35 year old carlos beltran and 39 year old carlos delgado lol its stupid to look 5 years down the road

[The Matt Kaufman]

yeah with 35 year old carlos beltran and 39 year old carlos delgado lol its stupid to look 5 years down the road

No Im saying with the young guys..Beltran will only be 34..Delgado will be gone by then though..but the younger crop of talent might be good (Milledge, Pelfrey, Kazmir, Wright, Reyes etc)

Of course if that happens..doubt it will

[Split2nd]

yeah with 35 year old carlos beltran and 39 year old carlos delgado lol its stupid to look 5 years down the road
Not really.

Escobar 2B
Brandon Jones CF
Saltalamacchia 1B
Andrus SS
McCann C
Francoeur RF
Campbell 3B
Johnson/Kahui LF

siiiick

[xbrokendownx]

Not really.

Escobar 2B
Brandon Jones CF
Saltalamacchia 1B
Andrus SS
McCann C
Francoeur RF
Campbell 3B
Johnson/Kahui LF

siiiick




maybe by then jeff francouer will learn how to walk

[The Matt Kaufman]

Not really.

Escobar 2B
Brandon Jones CF
Saltalamacchia 1B
Andrus SS
McCann C
Francoeur RF
Campbell 3B
Johnson/Kahui LF

siiiick

if you can pronounce the first baseman's name you should win an award.

[Split2nd]

if you can pronounce the first baseman's name you should win an award.
It's really not that hard... Salt-uh-luh-mah-kee-uh

[Split2nd]

maybe by then jeff francouer will learn how to walk
I doubt it. The fucking org thinks his aggressiveness is a good thing. Couple that with Terry Pendleton being a terrible hitting coach because he himself was always really aggressive and Jeff will never learn how.

[The Matt Kaufman]

I doubt it. The fucking org thinks his aggressiveness is a good thing. Couple that with Terry Pendleton being a terrible hitting coach because he himself was always really aggressive and Jeff will never learn how.

heh terry pendleton..I think its good when someone knows who the guy was. I havent met too many people who do

[xbrokendownx]

I doubt it. The fucking org thinks his aggressiveness is a good thing. Couple that with Terry Pendleton being a terrible hitting coach because he himself was always really aggressive and Jeff will never learn how.






yeah its gotta be frustrating


although, if alfonso soriano can learn how to walk and not strike out every other AB, i think any player could. dude was HORRIBLE at it early in his career

[The Matt Kaufman]

yeah its gotta be frustrating


although, if alfonso soriano can learn how to walk and not strike out every other AB, i think any player could. dude was HORRIBLE at it early in his career

And dont forget Jose Reyes..he walked like 20 times all of last year.

[Split2nd]

And dont forget Jose Reyes..he walked like 20 times all of last year.
When I watched Reyes last year it just seemed like he was afraid of striking out, so whenever he got 2 strikes on him, regardless of the amount of balls, he'd just be protecting, fouling everything away.

Jeff does that to an extent because he HATES taking a pitch and then it ending up being a strike. I fucking hate it when he takes a borderline pitch and the blue calls it a strike, because all that does is discourage him from taking pitches. Not only does he do the thing Reyes did last year, he also thinks he can drive anything close to the plate. So he's Reyes x 10 in horribleness plate discipline wise.

[The Matt Kaufman]

When I watched Reyes last year it just seemed like he was afraid of striking out, so whenever he got 2 strikes on him, regardless of the amount of balls, he'd just be protecting, fouling everything away.

Jeff does that to an extent because he HATES taking a pitch and then it ending up being a strike. I fucking hate it when he takes a borderline pitch and the blue calls it a strike, because all that does is discourage him from taking pitches. Not only does he do the thing Reyes did last year, he also thinks he can drive anything close to the plate. So he's Reyes x 10 in horribleness plate discipline wise.

give it time Im sure hes going to be a good player..hes in his 20s right?

The braves always develop ridiculously good players out of nowhere..

[Split2nd]

give it time Im sure hes going to be a good player..hes in his 20s right?

The braves always develop ridiculously good players out of nowhere..
Well Jeff wouldn't really be out of nowhere. He was a premiere toolsy athlete taken in the first round.

[justinevans]

Carlos Beltran is not better than Ryan Howard =)

[The Matt Kaufman]

Carlos Beltran is not better than Ryan Howard =)

When Ryan howard has 5-6 100RBI seasons and plays in the playoffs and performs well we can all say that..until then I cant agree with that.

[justinevans]

When Ryan howard has 5-6 100RBI seasons and plays in the playoffs and performs well we can all say that..until then I cant agree with that.

Howard hit more home runs last year and had almost as many rbis in half a year than beltran had the whole year.

[The Matt Kaufman]

Howard hit more home runs last year and had almost as many rbis in half a year than beltran had the whole year.

and hes a great player..but you cant say the guy is better than someone when hes been in the league for 1 1/2 years and compare it to someone who has been around for 7.

[justinevans]

and hes a great player..but you cant say the guy is better than someone when hes been in the league for 1 1/2 years and compare it to someone who has been around for 7.

okay, he is better this year, Beltran's career year.

higher average, higher slugging, more hrs, more rbis, more hits

[Split2nd]

They've been pretty much equal this year. Any differences in their stats are pretty negligible.

[justinevans]

They've been pretty much equal this year. Any differences in their stats are pretty negligible.

true, but Howard is only in his 2nd year... Beltran has been in the majors awhile.

[Split2nd]

true, but Howard is only in his 2nd year... Beltran has been in the majors awhile.
While this is true, Beltran is only 2 1/2 years older than Howard

[justinevans]

While this is true, Beltran is only 2 1/2 years older than Howard

yes, but Beltran has seen major league pitching, and certain pitcher more often.

[MrMet]

yes, but Beltran has seen major league pitching, and certain pitcher more often.

It's not Beltran's fault, that he was major league ready at an earlier age than Howard was.

[justinevans]

It's not Beltran's fault, that he was major league ready at an earlier age than Howard was.

or the fact Philly had Jim Thome sitting there?

[bigmike]

i've got to go with mr. met on this one. Beltran, right now is the better player. Hitting wise this season is pretty even, but beltran being the 2nd best defensive CF in the league gives him the edge. not to mention the ability to run (which he doesn't because why would he when he's hitting in front of those guys in the lineup).

[xbrokendownx]

i definitely agree beltran is a better player right now (howard just hasnt done it for long enough, but i really like him) but beltran's defense is wayyyyy overrated IMO. dude plays with his back up against the center field wall

[bigmike]

i definitely agree beltran is a better player right now (howard just hasnt done it for long enough, but i really like him) but beltran's defense is wayyyyy overrated IMO. dude plays with his back up against the center field wall
does he not make the plays when needed? okay then.

[xbrokendownx]

does he not make the plays when needed? okay then.





just because he makes the plays when needed doenst mean hes a great defensive player

[Goodbye Forever]

Saying that he's overrated defensively because he plays deep is pretty silly, especially since catchable balls rarely drop in front of him him.

[MrMet]

just because he makes the plays when needed doenst mean hes a great defensive player

What do you consider a great defensive player?

[xbrokendownx]

What do you consider a great defensive player?





andruw jones, omar vizquel, roberto alomar, ken griffey, torii hunter

[MrMet]

andruw jones, omar vizquel, roberto alomar, ken griffey, torii hunter

I meant what do you look for (characteristics) when you are deciding if someone is a great defensive player or not?

[Split2nd]

Beltran is fast, and is a good defensive center fielder, but I've seen him botch many easy plays, and from when I've watched him, he doesn't make many great plays, which is what I define as a great defensive Center Fielder. It's not the highlight reel catches, just getting to balls that the average center fielder wouldn't be able to. I think it stems from the fact that his actual defensive ability is sort of lacking, and is mostly comprised of his great speed.

But right now I think he's the better player because he's done it for longer, and he's an unreal basestealer. Howard is just ridiculous though. 2 1/2 years is still a sizeable difference, a 26 year old kid putting up 50+ HRs is amazing. Everyone laughed their asses off at Pecota's 90th percentile projection of Howard, and now look at him. haha.

[bigmike]

Beltran is fast, and is a good defensive center fielder, but I've seen him botch many easy plays, and from when I've watched him, he doesn't make many great plays, which is what I define as a great defensive Center Fielder. It's not the highlight reel catches, just getting to balls that the average center fielder wouldn't be able to. I think it stems from the fact that his actual defensive ability is sort of lacking, and is mostly comprised of his great speed.

But right now I think he's the better player because he's done it for longer, and he's an unreal basestealer. Howard is just ridiculous though. 2 1/2 years is still a sizeable difference, a 26 year old kid putting up 50+ HRs is amazing. Everyone laughed their asses off at Pecota's 90th percentile projection of Howard, and now look at him. haha.
you don't think Beltran's the 2nd best defensive CF in the NL?

[Split2nd]

you don't think Beltran's the 2nd best defensive CF in the NL?
I didn't say that. I just don't think he's a great defensive outfielder. He can be 2nd best in the NL but not great, that just shows there's a lack of very good defensive CFs in the league. I think Andruw and Torii are the only great ones. Wells and Beltran are very good, as was Griffey, and I've always liked Cameron, but they're not great. I like Wells more than Beltran too.

[The Matt Kaufman]

I love Ryan Howard but in order to say someone is better (reiterating what I said before) you have to see someone play for more than a year.

As far as Beltran's defense goes I dont think its top notch but its pretty good in my opinion. I dont know how many assists he has or anything like that. He does maneuver around the outfield a little better this year though since he doesnt have the bad quad.

[justinevans]

I love Ryan Howard but in order to say someone is better (reiterating what I said before) you have to see someone play for more than a year.

As far as Beltran's defense goes I dont think its top notch but its pretty good in my opinion. I dont know how many assists he has or anything like that. He does maneuver around the outfield a little better this year though since he doesnt have the bad quad.

He has, a year and a month, and the only person in his area for putting up better numbers is Big Papi.

If you're going to build a team around a player, would it be Howard or Beltran? I think it is that simple.

[The Matt Kaufman]

He has, a year and a month, and the only person in his area for putting up better numbers is Big Papi.

If you're going to build a team around a player, would it be Howard or Beltran? I think it is that simple.

Id say Howard in a minute..but you still trying to tell me that hes better at this point in time cant be true because he hasnt played in a playoff game, hasnt played more than 5 years, etc etc etc. Great player but you cant say the guy is better than Beltran and hes only been around a year. Its like saying David Wright is the best third baseman ever. Cant do it.

[justinevans]

Id say Howard in a minute..but you still trying to tell me that hes better at this point in time cant be true because he hasnt played in a playoff game, hasnt played more than 5 years, etc etc etc. Great player but you cant say the guy is better than Beltran and hes only been around a year. Its like saying David Wright is the best third baseman ever. Cant do it.

Well the David Wright is a stupid analogy because he isn't even the best right now.

But I know where you're coming from.

I just think, minus the speed Howard has more talent. So Howard is a better talent. You can't judge that in baseball by their approach to the ball and their swing.

[The Matt Kaufman]

Well the David Wright is a stupid analogy because he isn't even the best right now.

But I know where you're coming from.

I just think, minus the speed Howard has more talent. So Howard is a better talent. You can't judge that in baseball by their approach to the ball and their swing.

I figured you knew where I was coming from. David Wright may not be the best thirdbaseman in baseball but he probably will be or at least top 3..thats an opinion of course.

Howard has more talent? I dont know if I can agree with that..you gotta remember while he might be carrying the team on his back, he might not get pitched around or anything like that..Im sure the pitching around will start and the phillies will need a backup.

Mind you, David Wright is on pace to hit more homeruns than Mike Schmidt. We'll of course see if he hits another 500+ homeruns

[xbrokendownx]

the best third basemen in the MLB right now are (not in any order)

david wright
alex rodriguez
miguel cabrera

with scott rolen not far behind. anyone else that says something different is just wrong