Most overrated athlete of all time

[LikeAnAvalanche]

Touchy subject boys!

My vote goes to Joe Namath. He is in the Hall of Fame, and yet he has a 50% pass completion rate. He has 173 TD's, and 220 INT's. Yeah, he played the roll right, but other than that, I don't see how we put this guy in the HOF. Especially if it's on his flashy lifestyle's merit, because the NFL now-a-days kind of doesn't like flashy lifestyles.

So my vote goes to Joe Namath as most overrated athlete of all time.

[CTMarshall]

You bite your tongue! Namath was great...although, I probably only think so because I live in Alabama.

[TheProsAndCons]

Rocky Balboa

Edit: Also, evidence of overratedness http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?t=1598582

[barkingincision]

dennis rodman

[introduction]

David Beckham.

[domotime2]

terrell owens

[theactionblast]

dennis rodman


You have got to be kidding me. Dennis Rodman was one of the best rebounders of all time. He also was an incredible defender.

[EchoPark]

Guy Dowd

[barkingincision]

You have got to be kidding me. Dennis Rodman was one of the best rebounders of all time. He also was an incredible defender.
i was kidding
its dennis fucking rodman
action blast

[domotime2]

Bob Greise

[phillipjacob]

what about tony romo

[Metal Now]

Me.

[speakhandsforme]

John Elway is always the clear answer to me. The fact that so many "experts" name Elway as the greatest QB of all-time is beyond me. I can understand the honor going to Unitas, Favre, Graham, Montana, Marino, or even Manning...but Elway's just an overrated piece.

Other names that come to mind: Muhammad Ali, Joe Namath, Jose Canseco

[Akissforher]

David Beckham.

this infinitely.

[Killadelphia]

Donovan McNabb, most overrated by media, most underrated by fan base.

Joking aside, Joe Namath.

[Killadelphia]

John Elway is always the clear answer to me. The fact that so many "experts" name Elway as the greatest QB of all-time is beyond me. I can understand the honor going to Unitas, Favre, Graham, Montana, Marino, or even Manning...but Elway's just an overrated piece.

Other names that come to mind: Muhammad Ali, Joe Namath, Jose Canseco

Ali? Really?

[brothaman]

what about tony romo

being a cowboys fan, i cant say yes or no. i dont think hes all that overrated, but i dont think people rate him very high either. alot of that comes just from him being the quarterback of the dallas cowboys, you are automatically under the microscope.

[xbrokendownx]

Namath

[Macbeth.]

hahaha. sports.

[Portugal4142]

tiger woods.. just a different kind of overrated

[hoser1689]

Nolan Ryan

[startBBtoday]

John Elway and Cal Ripken Jr.

[And Hours Pass]

Scottie Pippen

[JuneJuly]

David Beckham.

totally agree with this.

[FondestMemory]

tiger woods.. just a different kind of overrated

What does that even mean?

[Portugal4142]

What does that even mean?

Overrated: "To overestimate the merits of; rate too highly."

(Just to be on the safe side) Merit: "claim to respect and praise; excellence; worth."

To sum up, he's an ass. He was overrated as a person and half the reason he's famous is because of his endorsments. And half the reason he got sponsors is because he was viewed as a proper role model

[StuGrimson]

I think Tiger is overexposed but not overrated

[wesgemm08]

lolwut.jpg

[fflash]

Donovan McNabb, most overrated by media, most underrated by fan base.

Joking aside, Joe Namath.

underrated?
Didn't McNabb give up in the super bowl?
Didn't T.O. have nine catches coming back from a broken ankle?
McNabb is clearly overrated, not the most of all time, but still, when you get "injured" after you an int...

[xbrokendownx]

tyler hansbrough has the least talent of all time, and donovan mcnabb is overrated

glad to see youre consistently a moron at least

[drawndead]

as a Yankee fan I might have to go with Jeter. YES he is insanely clutch and classy and the captain but the Yankees media always put him up there with Lou Gehrig and that just isn't fair to Gehrig. Jeter is my favorite Yankee but he is overrated when being compared to Gehrig like he so often is

[inthemidst]

Paul Pierce.

[startBBtoday]

Paul Pierce.

Scottie Pippen


not saying i agree or disagree, just why do you say so?

[Cameronisonfire]

what about tony romo

He gets my vote. Ugh all the crygirls fans need a parachute to hop of the dudes nuts.
http://www.stlallsports.com/pics/tony_romo_crying_after_fumble.jpg

[inthemidst]

not saying i agree or disagree, just why do you say so?

I don't think he's very talented, but everyone holds him in such high regard. I can't stand the way he plays. He just throws up bad shots that somehow go in.

[nickonthecoast]

Air Bud.
That damn dog couldn't defend shit.
But when he would make a shot, the whole fucking world went ape shit.

[rollerman4221]

Overrated: "To overestimate the merits of; rate too highly."

(Just to be on the safe side) Merit: "claim to respect and praise; excellence; worth."

To sum up, he's an ass. He was overrated as a person and half the reason he's famous is because of his endorsments. And half the reason he got sponsors is because he was viewed as a proper role model

or maybe because he is the greatest golfer of all time, but who knows.........

[sleepyseanzzz]

tom brady without a doubt, i laughed when one of the guys from espn said he should get paid more than peyton right now

[And Hours Pass]

not saying i agree or disagree, just why do you say so?
I have this argument with a friend of mine all the time, so I will just go through the points he gives as to why he thinks Pippen is great and refute them.

Pippen's appearance on the dream team - Isiah Thomas was passed over for Pippen when he had just finished leading the Pistons to 2 NBA Championships. Pippen was in no way more qualified than Isiah and certainly didn't belong on this team. He coat-tailed in with Jordan.

Pippen's defense on Magic Johnson won the 1991 NBA finals - BS. This is such a ridiculous statement. You can see the following stats:

Johnson's 1991 NBA Finals Stats: 18.6 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 12.4 apg
Johnson's 1991 NBA Finals Stats while guarded by Pippen: 18.5 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 12.8 apg

Doesn't look like much of a defensive shutdown to me...

Pippen was an unselfish player - seriously? Unselfish? Look no further than 93-94 conference semi-final. No phenomenal player would ever refuse to enter a game when a play wasn't designed for them. That's just absurd.

Those are some key reasons I think he's overrated. Do you disagree?

[startBBtoday]

I have this argument with a friend of mine all the time, so I will just go through the points he gives as to why he thinks Pippen is great and refute them.

Pippen's appearance on the dream team - Isiah Thomas was passed over for Pippen when he had just finished leading the Pistons to 2 NBA Championships. Pippen was in no way more qualified than Isiah and certainly didn't belong on this team. He coat-tailed in with Jordan.

Pippen's defense on Magic Johnson won the 1991 NBA finals - BS. This is such a ridiculous statement. You can see the following stats:

Johnson's 1991 NBA Finals Stats: 18.6 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 12.4 apg
Johnson's 1991 NBA Finals Stats while guarded by Pippen: 18.5 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 12.8 apg

Doesn't look like much of a defensive shutdown to me...

Pippen was an unselfish player - seriously? Unselfish? Look no further than 93-94 conference semi-final. No phenomenal player would ever refuse to enter a game when a play wasn't designed for them. That's just absurd.

Those are some key reasons I think he's overrated. Do you disagree?

i can google, "scottie pippen overrated" too

http://pw1.netcom.com/~bjalas/basketball/bulls/pippen.htm

[KillTheMusic]

Sidney Crosby

[xbrokendownx]

Sidney Crosby


oh boy

[KillTheMusic]

oh boy

Wasn't expecting a response that quick. I was joking, of course. I think he deserves the majority of the praise he gets.

[InTheatersNow]

LikeAnAvalanche and Derrick Rose
(http://absolutepunk.net/member.php?u=906752)

[And Hours Pass]

i can google, "scottie pippen overrated" too

http://pw1.netcom.com/~bjalas/basketball/bulls/pippen.htm
I wouldn't have any idea if that was googled. That came from an email chain between 5 friends about that. Because he put it better than I did, I copied my friend Dave's response right out of his email to save time.

That's actually even surprising to me that he googled that... Sorry about that man. I had no idea.

[greenteaallday]

as a Yankee fan I might have to go with Jeter. YES he is insanely clutch and classy and the captain but the Yankees media always put him up there with Lou Gehrig and that just isn't fair to Gehrig. Jeter is my favorite Yankee but he is overrated when being compared to Gehrig like he so often is

This isn't really that ridiculous comparing the two.

Jeter just passed him in hits and is approaching most of his other numbers.

[FondestMemory]

i just think the scottie pippen argument is a lame one anyways.

nobody talks about him being in the top 10-15 players to ever play the game, because he wasn't.

he will forever be linked to jordan, as he should be. he was a HUGE contributor to the six title teams and is one of the best "sidekicks" in the history of the game. that's how's he's talked about, and that's deserved.

what keeps him from being overrated was that he was also able to step into big boy shoes when the time came. the bulls teams during jordan's white sox days weren't awful. pippen carried that team and made them stay relevant. then he went on to portland and was a gigantic part of their success when he was there.

scottie pippen knew his role and accepted it, and was among the best to do that.

[HometownHero]

I have this argument with a friend of mine all the time, so I will just go through the points he gives as to why he thinks Pippen is great and refute them.

Pippen's appearance on the dream team - Isiah Thomas was passed over for Pippen when he had just finished leading the Pistons to 2 NBA Championships. Pippen was in no way more qualified than Isiah and certainly didn't belong on this team. He coat-tailed in with Jordan.

Pippen's defense on Magic Johnson won the 1991 NBA finals - BS. This is such a ridiculous statement. You can see the following stats:

Johnson's 1991 NBA Finals Stats: 18.6 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 12.4 apg
Johnson's 1991 NBA Finals Stats while guarded by Pippen: 18.5 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 12.8 apg

Doesn't look like much of a defensive shutdown to me...

Pippen was an unselfish player - seriously? Unselfish? Look no further than 93-94 conference semi-final. No phenomenal player would ever refuse to enter a game when a play wasn't designed for them. That's just absurd.

Those are some key reasons I think he's overrated. Do you disagree?

A lot of pro athletes can be dick headed at times. Doesn't refute Scottie's talent as a player. The man was a key to the Bulls success. It was not just Jordan. Without that team they would not have gotten as far imo. They were very well rounded and Pippen played a huge role. He's a fantastic player. (Except when he came to Portland and stunk shit up for us)

[HometownHero]

i just think the scottie pippen argument is a lame one anyways.

nobody talks about him being in the top 10-15 players to ever play the game, because he wasn't.

he will forever be linked to jordan, as he should be. he was a HUGE contributor to the six title teams and is one of the best "sidekicks" in the history of the game. that's how's he's talked about, and that's deserved.

what keeps him from being overrated was that he was also able to step into big boy shoes when the time came. the bulls teams during jordan's white sox days weren't awful. pippen carried that team and made them stay relevant. then he went on to portland and was a gigantic part of their success when he was there.

scottie pippen knew his role and accepted it, and was among the best to do that.

I thought he basically sucked when with Portland :shrug:

[And Hours Pass]

A lot of pro athletes can be dick headed at times. Doesn't refute Scottie's talent as a player. The man was a key to the Bulls success. It was not just Jordan. Without that team they would not have gotten as far imo. They were very well rounded and Pippen played a huge role. He's a fantastic player. (Except when he came to Portland and stunk shit up for us)
Loved the ending to what you said. I think he is a talented player. I wouldn't try to argue otherwise. But I think his talent is equal to that of Steve Kerr, Toni Kukoc, Luc Longley, and Ron Harper. All of them were role players who added to the success of the bulls. He is in no way one of the 50 greatest of all time. Not even close.

Would you put Robert Horry in the top 50 of all time? Hell no. Yet he was a role player on two championship teams. I just don't see any justification for calling him one of the best in the game. Doesn't make sense to me.

[oh...rly]

Overrated: "To overestimate the merits of; rate too highly."

(Just to be on the safe side) Merit: "claim to respect and praise; excellence; worth."

To sum up, he's an ass. He was overrated as a person and half the reason he's famous is because of his endorsments. And half the reason he got sponsors is because he was viewed as a proper role model

The question isn't, "Who is the most overrated person?"

All the reasons you gave have nothing to do with being an athlete.

[Alkaline 182]

Tom Brady

[And Hours Pass]

i just think the scottie pippen argument is a lame one anyways.

nobody talks about him being in the top 10-15 players to ever play the game, because he wasn't.

he will forever be linked to jordan, as he should be. he was a HUGE contributor to the six title teams and is one of the best "sidekicks" in the history of the game. that's how's he's talked about, and that's deserved.

what keeps him from being overrated was that he was also able to step into big boy shoes when the time came. the bulls teams during jordan's white sox days weren't awful. pippen carried that team and made them stay relevant. then he went on to portland and was a gigantic part of their success when he was there.

scottie pippen knew his role and accepted it, and was among the best to do that.
But they put him in the top 50 - http://www.nba.com/history/players/50greatest.html

I completely agree he was a good role player, but do you really believe he belongs in the top 50?

[HometownHero]

Loved the ending to what you said. I think he is a talented player. I wouldn't try to argue otherwise. But I think his talent is equal to that of Steve Kerr, Toni Kukoc, Luc Longley, and Ron Harper. All of them were role players who added to the success of the bulls. He is in no way one of the 50 greatest of all time. Not even close.

Would you put Robert Horry in the top 50 of all time? Hell no. Yet he was a role player on two championship teams. I just don't see any justification for calling him one of the best in the game. Doesn't make sense to me.

Yeah Robert Horry did some clutch stuff, for the Spurs and such, but I don't think he was half as consistent as Pippen was. I think without Pippen the Bulls would not have been as good. He was truly one of the greatest "sidekicks" one could have. The dude could feed Jordan like no other and step up and hit shots when he had to. All those players helped in a great way but I don't think they could have really stepped up to be a solid starter and move the ball the way Pippen did. The Bulls had the best of everything. Solid center, Rodman cleaning up the boards like a crazy man, Pippen dishing out to everyone, and Jordan just being himself. I think he was great, but yeah not the best of all time but just a really solid player

[Tyler Vagyler]

Phil Mickelson?

[startBBtoday]

Loved the ending to what you said. I think he is a talented player. I wouldn't try to argue otherwise. But I think his talent is equal to that of Steve Kerr, Toni Kukoc, Luc Longley, and Ron Harper. All of them were role players who added to the success of the bulls. He is in no way one of the 50 greatest of all time. Not even close.

Would you put Robert Horry in the top 50 of all time? Hell no. Yet he was a role player on two championship teams. I just don't see any justification for calling him one of the best in the game. Doesn't make sense to me.

Oh my god. This couldn't be further from the truth. As fondest said, pippen carried those bulls teams to respectable records while jordan was gone. Also, just look at his stats and compare them to kerr, kukoc, longley, harper and horry. it's not even close.

[honkyg88]

Oh my god. This couldn't be further from the truth. As fondest said, pippen carried those bulls teams to respectable records while jordan was gone. Also, just look at his stats and compare them to kerr, kukoc, longley, harper and horry. it's not even close.
Just what I was going to say. Scottie averaged around 20 points a game when he was with the Bulls. He was so much more then a typical role player.

[Portugal4142]

The question isn't, "Who is the most overrated person?"

All the reasons you gave have nothing to do with being an athlete.

I got creative with it. The question also isn't "Who's athletic ability is overrated" My point was, 6 months ago everyone viewed him as the best golfer/role model for people (hence the sponsorships). Turns out he's just the best golfer.

[COREhorizon]

Tom Brady

This

[And Hours Pass]

Yeah Robert Horry did some clutch stuff, for the Spurs and such, but I don't think he was half as consistent as Pippen was. I think without Pippen the Bulls would not have been as good. He was truly one of the greatest "sidekicks" one could have. The dude could feed Jordan like no other and step up and hit shots when he had to. All those players helped in a great way but I don't think they could have really stepped up to be a solid starter and move the ball the way Pippen did. The Bulls had the best of everything. Solid center, Rodman cleaning up the boards like a crazy man, Pippen dishing out to everyone, and Jordan just being himself. I think he was great, but yeah not the best of all time but just a really solid player
I can respect that. I know I'm selling him short. I just hate seeing him make all of these elite lists just because he was next to Jordan. But again, you're right - he added a lot of value to the team. I just think there are quite a few players you could've swapped in for him (not the aforementioned ones) that might have risen to the elite status he did solely by having their game elevated by Jordan.

[HometownHero]

I can respect that. I know I'm selling him short. I just hate seeing him make all of these elite lists just because he was next to Jordan. But again, you're right - he added a lot of value to the team. I just think there are quite a few players you could've swapped in for him (not the aforementioned ones) that might have risen to the elite status he did solely by having their game elevated by Jordan.

But that's just relative anyway isn't it? Because we never know what would have happened if someone else was there. I don't know if they would have flopped, been even better, or whatever. I just know that Pippen was a pretty great key role player.

[And Hours Pass]

But that's just relative anyway isn't it? Because we never know what would have happened if someone else was there. I don't know if they would have flopped, been even better, or whatever. I just know that Pippen was a pretty great key role player.
One can speculate, but that's the extent I guess. I'll give you Pippen being a great key role player, but I stand by my comment that he in no way belongs in the top 50, and as a result, is overrated.

[HometownHero]

One can speculate, but that's the extent I guess. I'll give you Pippen being a great key role player, but I stand by my comment that he in no way belongs in the top 50, and as a result, is overrated.

I never said he did haha I don't think he belongs on that list, but I also don't think he is overrated :shrug:

[wawanice]

without a doubt Donovan McNabb..what a douche..Ill never understand why every analyst is on his nuts. Chunky soup sucks too!

[sargentlgfuad]

Tom Brady
lmao. you're from MA and I'm from FL, and even i disagree with you.

[brentywat]

don't you ever say dennis rodman was overrated.......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBOEOSK7FcE

[And Hours Pass]

I never said he did haha I don't think he belongs on that list, but I also don't think he is overrated :shrug:
But if he's on the NBA's top 50 and you don't think he should be rated that high, wouldn't that inherently mean he's overrated?

(welcome to semantics-ville :wave:. I know it's semantics, but just had to ask it anyway)

[HometownHero]

But if he's on the NBA's top 50 and you don't think he should be rated that high, wouldn't that inherently mean he's overrated?

(welcome to semantics-ville :wave:. I know it's semantics, but just had to ask it anyway)

You'd think it would but I don't give a shit about lists, and such. He's not overrated in my mind. In a world view sure. I know it sounds stupid as shit but whatever hahaha

[FondestMemory]

that list is 14 years old. it's not even fucking relevant right now.

if they were to do another list tomorrow, scottie pippen would not be on it.

[saveferris]

John Elway and Cal Ripken Jr .
how so?

[FondestMemory]

i can see cal ripken jr.

and i guess i understand john elway, but i disagree with it. numbers aside, he was one of the best qbs i've watched play.

[Anton Djamoos]

John Elway and Cal Ripken Jr.
Ripken Jr. is only overrated because of those that don't know sports know his name so you hear about him more.

[speakhandsforme]

Ali? Really?

Really. Many consider him to be the greatest athlete of all time....yet almost all boxing historians exclude him from the 5 greatest of all time and some don't even have him in the top ten. The fact that he is more popular than Sugar Ray Robinson is merely a product of the time in which he reigned.

[startBBtoday]

ripken's numbers are just very pedestrian. .276/.340/.447/.788 are not even really HOF numbers. he's held as highly as he is because of the consecutive games streak, but other than that he's a player who only had two seasons with an ops over .900 (one of those he only played half the season late in his career), never fast, never great at getting on base. he had two great seasons (his mvp years) and 11 seasons with an ops under .800.

[Scott Weber]

Reggie Jackson. Craig Biggio.

[Stavie Steelo]

David Beckham
Brady Quinn - They had his trade at the top 5 off season moves and I still don't understand that he's isn't very good. Yes, Cleveland is awful but he isn't gonna start so how is he top 5 for a back QB? Makes no sense.

[suppyguppy]

Brett Favre. 1 ring early in his career. Choked in every big game situation after that.

[startBBtoday]

David Beckham
Brady Quinn - They had his trade at the top 5 off season moves and I still don't understand that he's isn't very good. Yes, Cleveland is awful but he isn't gonna start so how is he top 5 for a back QB? Makes no sense.

i know every single piece of information about this trade and the teams involved and what you just posted makes absolutely zero sense.

[suppyguppy]

Reggie Jackson. Craig Biggio.

Man Biggio? I love the way that guy played the game. What qualifies him as overrated to you?

[FondestMemory]

Reggie Jackson. Craig Biggio.

Two very good ones.

And wilt chamberlain.

[milli_vanilli]

Biggio was awesome. Under rated.

[startBBtoday]

i've never compared biggio and ripken's stats side by side, but it's weird to think that biggio was actually considerably better than ripken.

[xbrokendownx]

Biggio was underrated? what the hell?

[startBBtoday]

Biggio was awesome. Under rated.

definitely disagree that he's underrated, but i would probably put him somewhere between properly rated and slightly overrated.

[Scott Weber]

Man Biggio? I love the way that guy played the game. What qualifies him as overrated to you?
3,000 hits and a likely hall of famer when he shouldn't sniff it.

Solid prime surrounded by 10+ very mediocre seasons. .796 career OPS.

[Stavie Steelo]

i know every single piece of information about this trade and the teams involved and what you just posted makes absolutely zero sense.
I am saying it makes no sense how that is the fifth best offseason move? I can't remember where I read it at but it had; Karlos Dansby, Thomas Jones, Antrel Rolle all as lower moves than Brady Quinn you got to be fucking kidding me the guy is a backup QB or bottom starter in this league at best.

[HometownHero]

Two very good ones.

And wilt chamberlain.

I agree on Wilt

[startBBtoday]

I am saying it makes no sense how that is the fifth best offseason move? I can't remember where I read it at but it had; Karlos Dansby, Thomas Jones, Antrel Rolle all as lower moves than Brady Quinn you got to be fucking kidding me the guy is a backup QB or bottom starter in this league at best.

well they got him for basically nothing. no one is saying he's going to start in denver.

[Killadelphia]

Really. Many consider him to be the greatest athlete of all time....yet almost all boxing historians exclude him from the 5 greatest of all time and some don't even have him in the top ten. The fact that he is more popular than Sugar Ray Robinson is merely a product of the time in which he reigned.

But wasn't THAT time when boxing was pretty much at a high point?

[Scott Weber]

AVG/OBP/SLG

Player A: .281/.363/.433, 24 steals/162 games
Player B: .277/.352/.436 22 steals/162 games

Both 2nd basemen.

[startBBtoday]

without looking, durham?

[And Hours Pass]

You'd think it would but I don't give a shit about lists, and such. He's not overrated in my mind. In a world view sure. I know it sounds stupid as shit but whatever hahaha
Eh, who cares how it sounds. It's all opinions anyway.

[1moreandimfree]

I thought he basically sucked when with Portland :shrug:

Uhh.. No. Scottie was HUGE for Portland.

[Scott Weber]

without looking, durham?
you got it. where's the ray durham love? craig biggio is overrated as shit IMO.

[spunkmastaflex]

You have got to be kidding me. Dennis Rodman was one of the best rebounders of all time. He also was an incredible defender.

amen

[sleepyseanzzz]

lmao. you're from MA and I'm from FL, and even i disagree with you.

give me a break, new england is a system for quarterbacks. even matt cassell won some games there after never starting since high school. now hes nothing in kansas city. brady is a dime a dozen quarterback, just has a good team surrounding him and a few tainted rings to boot.

[sleepyseanzzz]

This isn't really that ridiculous comparing the two.

Jeter just passed him in hits and is approaching most of his other numbers.

exactly what i was thinking, and he is still able to succeed in an era where players are using banned substances to get ahead in the game.

[xbrokendownx]

give me a break, new england is a system for quarterbacks. even matt cassell won some games there after never starting since high school. now hes nothing in kansas city. brady is a dime a dozen quarterback, just has a good team surrounding him and a few tainted rings to boot.



:-|

[about3fitty]

some of the answers in this thread are unbelievable

[greenteaallday]

Phil Mickelson?

People love him more because he's a nice guy and seems to be lovable loser.

I love Mickelson, so its not meant to discredit him but he's the kind of guy you can get behind because of the struggles he has on the course (choking) and off the course (wife having cancer) .

[theactionblast]

Scottie Pippen

get the fuck out of here.

[theactionblast]

Loved the ending to what you said. I think he is a talented player. I wouldn't try to argue otherwise. But I think his talent is equal to that of Steve Kerr, Toni Kukoc, Luc Longley, and Ron Harper. All of them were role players who added to the success of the bulls. He is in no way one of the 50 greatest of all time. Not even close.

Would you put Robert Horry in the top 50 of all time? Hell no. Yet he was a role player on two championship teams. I just don't see any justification for calling him one of the best in the game. Doesn't make sense to me.




Ron Harper, Toni Kukoc, Luc Longley, and Steve Kerr cannot compare to Scottie Pippen. He was Jordans right hand man, and I firmly believe that if Jordan stayed retired and they built a team around pippen, the bulls would have still won a title. Look at the 93/94 season when Jordan was gone, Scottie Pippen led that team to the eastern conference finals and the main reason the bulls lost was because of the biggest phantom foul call in NBA history.

[startBBtoday]

you got it. where's the ray durham love? craig biggio is overrated as shit IMO.

i know what you're getting at, but to be fair, biggio did that for 2800 games and durham did for 1900. and that just was durham, there was no real peak like there was with biggio.

[yaz06]

The biggest bullshit answer given on here so far is Tom Brady by far. What he wins 3 Super Bowls in 4 years and then hasn't got another one since and everyone thinks he's wasshed up. Let's look back to 2008 when the Pats went undefeated and Brady passed for 50 tds. Sure they choked in the Super Bowl that year but this guy would still be ranked in the top three for best QBs in the NFL now.

[And Hours Pass]

get the fuck out of here.

Hey there - let's stick with gtfo. It lands nicer.

Ron Harper, Toni Kukoc, Luc Longley, and Steve Kerr cannot compare to Scottie Pippen. He was Jordans right hand man, and I firmly believe that if Jordan stayed retired and they built a team around pippen, the bulls would have still won a title. Look at the 93/94 season when Jordan was gone, Scottie Pippen led that team to the eastern conference finals and the main reason the bulls lost was because of the biggest phantom foul call in NBA history.

I would respond to your points, but this discussion was had ad naseum already in the thread. And I'll say this: the 93/94 season showed me one thing - Pippen isn't a leader. A leader is somebody who does whatever he can to help his team win when they need it most. The minute he refused to enter the game when the final play wasn't designed for him he proved to the world why he was the second option for most of his career. People like Jordan/Bird/Magic all wanted the ball - but they wouldn't refuse to enter if they didn't get that final shot. No true leader would.

[FondestMemory]

so base an entire career around one 30 second span of it. ignore every other point about how good he was and keep going back to an incident that was irrelevant in the overall picture and took place in a spot where his team wouldn't have even got to without him.

leader or not, pippen is not overrated.

[Theher3tic]

Air Bud.
That damn dog couldn't defend shit.
But when he would make a shot, the whole fucking world went ape shit.
LOL

[Scott Weber]

i know what you're getting at, but to be fair, biggio did that for 2800 games and durham did for 1900. and that just was durham, there was no real peak like there was with biggio.
I don't believe we should reward players for playing for a long time, especially in Biggio's case where the last 8 years of his career were extremely mediocre.

[whothehellispat]

jimmie johnson, jeff gordon

[WordsAndFears]

Wasn't expecting a response that quick. I was joking, of course. I think he deserves the majority of the praise he gets.

i agree. i think he deserves the praise he gets- he IS a very good player. however, i think he's overrated in the sense that he lets the praise get to his head, and is sort of an asshole about it all. in contrast, henrik lundqvist (who is a goalie, i realize- an entirely different position) is also a very good player, but is more humble about it all. does that make sense?

[Jake Denning]

Uhh.. No. Scottie was HUGE for Portland.

Correct, he was the only reason why they won games back then.

[Aphasia17]

David Beckham.

I knew at least one person would say Becks. I think he's only ever been overrated by the people who love the celebrity side of him. A lot of them don't know Beckham the athlete very well so they assume he's one of the best players in the world since he's popular. True fans with any knowledge of the sport know perfectly well he's never been among the best. He has always been and will continue to be one of the best crossers
and free kick takers in the world. Other than that, he's never been great at anything else (dribbling, running at defenders, etc.)

[bigmike]

This thread is fucking awful. Jesus christ.

[tstick18]

This thread is fucking awful. Jesus christ.
Is that your pick? I'd say Moses was far more overrated.

[speakhandsforme]

But wasn't THAT time when boxing was pretty much at a high point?

Yes, he was the face of boxing's finest hour. However, he isn't a contender for its all-time crown.

[HometownHero]

Uhh.. No. Scottie was HUGE for Portland.
He provided some leadership. Care to share what else?

[Kurt Retenauer]

If I could find it, I'd like to that thread where that kid called Michael Jordan the most overrated athlete ever, which eventually turned into every sports forum poster to jump all over him.

[Kurt Retenauer]

Is that your pick? I'd say Moses was far more overrated.

I lol'd

[troubledbyinsects]

Is that your pick? I'd say Moses was far more overrated.
hahhaha i just lol'd so hard

but seriously some of the responses in here are baffling

[yayitsjoe]

Rocky Balboa

Edit: Also, evidence of overratedness http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?t=1598582

false.

[Kurt Retenauer]

It pains me to see David Beckham on here so many times being a Man U fan and all, but I'd agree on the premise of his skills post-Man U days. He was excellent for Man U, not so much Real Madrid, LA Galaxy, or AC Milan.

[derekmoyer4]

get the fuck out of here.
amen.

[ActorInThisPlay]

Emmitt Smith - dude ran behind the best offensive line in the game for how many years. He was a great RB but I don't think he's even in the top 5 all time.

[about3fitty]

This thread is fucking awful. Jesus christ.

agree with this

Is that your pick? I'd say Moses was far more overrated.

and lol at this

[benn10]

Sidney Crosby

[StuGrimson]

Sidney Crosby

Maybe he is overexposed but by no means is he overrated

[FondestMemory]

Emmitt Smith - dude ran behind the best offensive line in the game for how many years. He was a great RB but I don't think he's even in the top 5 all time.

I wouldnt say hes overrated.

He doesnt really get talked about as being the best ever. When it comes to all time great lists, hes usually fifth at best according to people who know the game. Thats about right.

[joshsurber]

Payton Manning

[benn10]

Maybe he is overexposed but by no means is he overrated

Definitely overrated.

[drawndead]

This isn't really that ridiculous comparing the two.

Jeter just passed him in hits and is approaching most of his other numbers.

the hits yeah but the other comparison that are being made are i think a little too far fetched. yes Jeter is consistent and clutch but he isn't on the same level as Gehrig.

[bigmike]

Definitely overrated.
False.

[StuGrimson]

Definitely overrated.

Good point you make a strong case

[Drew Beringer]

Wilt Chamberlain.

[sargentlgfuad]

give me a break, new england is a system for quarterbacks. even matt cassell won some games there after never starting since high school. now hes nothing in kansas city. brady is a dime a dozen quarterback, just has a good team surrounding him and a few tainted rings to boot.
oh yeah, you're right... just three superbowl rings in a few years. no biggy. dude i'm a miami dolphins fan, i have reason to hate him.

[benn10]

Good point you make a strong case

As do you.

[SwiftSilentDead]

Chris Osgood

[COTA]

Sidney Crosby

Yes.

[ActorInThisPlay]

give me a break, new england is a system for quarterbacks. even matt cassell won some games there after never starting since high school. now hes nothing in kansas city. brady is a dime a dozen quarterback, just has a good team surrounding him and a few tainted rings to boot.
haha did you see who his receivers were? the fact that Manning has only won 1 with Harrison and Wayne and Brady won 3 with Troy Brown should tell you something about him as a QB.

[greenteaallday]

the hits yeah but the other comparison that are being made are i think a little too far fetched. yes Jeter is consistent and clutch but he isn't on the same level as Gehrig.

Yeah but neither me, you or anyone I know has seen Gehrig play everyday. From watching Jeter play everyday you see how good he is, and that make me a little biased but:

I think it is safe to say he is this generations Gehrig.At the end of his career he is going to eclipse his hit record , play more games in a Yankee uniform, and may beat his runs total. Gehrig also played with murder's row, not that Jeter didn't have good teams but they weren't murder's row.

I just don't think it is out of the question to compare the two in the least bit.

[ndoleman]

Sidney Crosby
That's a joke.

[about3fitty]

brett favre

[mymusicismylife]

Joe Namath

[KillTheMusic]

i agree. i think he deserves the praise he gets- he IS a very good player. however, i think he's overrated in the sense that he lets the praise get to his head, and is sort of an asshole about it all. in contrast, henrik lundqvist (who is a goalie, i realize- an entirely different position) is also a very good player, but is more humble about it all. does that make sense?

Disagree that he's let it get to his head. I'd say he does a pretty good job, especially with the amount of press and other media stuff he has to do all the time. Not to mention he's had the weight of the NHL on his shoulders since he was 16 years old.

[drawndead]

Yeah but neither me, you or anyone I know has seen Gehrig play everyday. From watching Jeter play everyday you see how good he is, and that make me a little biased but:

I think it is safe to say he is this generations Gehrig.At the end of his career he is going to eclipse his hit record , play more games in a Yankee uniform, and may beat his runs total. Gehrig also played with murder's row, not that Jeter didn't have good teams but they weren't murder's row.

I just don't think it is out of the question to compare the two in the least bit.

i do see your point

[sleepyseanzzz]

haha did you see who his receivers were? the fact that Manning has only won 1 with Harrison and Wayne and Brady won 3 with Troy Brown should tell you something about him as a QB.

manning has no defense, did you watch the superbowl this year?

[sleepyseanzzz]

oh yeah, you're right... just three superbowl rings in a few years. no biggy. dude i'm a miami dolphins fan, i have reason to hate him.

i bet if the dolphins video taped other teams they would have a shot at winning three superbowls too right?

[xbrokendownx]

not with such greats as cleo lemon and AJ feeley at QB

[fightinirish217]

as a Yankee fan I might have to go with Jeter. YES he is insanely clutch and classy and the captain but the Yankees media always put him up there with Lou Gehrig and that just isn't fair to Gehrig. Jeter is my favorite Yankee but he is overrated when being compared to Gehrig like he so often is

I'm a Yankee fan too, die-hard, and I understand that Jeter may not be on par with Gehrig in everyone's minds right now, but let's not forget who Jeter passed this year as the Yankees all-time hit leader. I get what you're saying but DJ is up there with the top Yankees of all time, and rightfully so.

[milli_vanilli]

you got it. where's the ray durham love? craig biggio is overrated as shit IMO.

Are you really comparing Ray Durham to Craig Biggio?

Well. Ray Durham only had 2,000 hits in his career. Who cares? A lot of guys are in that club.

If you make it to the 3,000 hit club you are great and worthy of the hall of fame. Unless you're Raphael Palmerio and you cheated for a large part of your career.

I'm not saying Craig Biggio is the greatest 2B ever or anything. And he definitely shouldn't be first ballot, but to say he shouldn't even sniff the hall of fame puzzles me.

[sargentlgfuad]

i bet if the dolphins video taped other teams they would have a shot at winning three superbowls too right?
yeah, you obviously have no idea how football is played (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+is+football+played).

[sleepyseanzzz]

yeah, you obviously have no idea how football is played (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+is+football+played).

definitely, that's why they were fined millions and had to forfeit draft picks? again, you don't know shit. have fun when the jets whoop your ass twice next year

[drawndead]

I'm a Yankee fan too, die-hard, and I understand that Jeter may not be on par with Gehrig in everyone's minds right now, but let's not forget who Jeter passed this year as the Yankees all-time hit leader. I get what you're saying but DJ is up there with the top Yankees of all time, and rightfully so.

I think after he retires and I can see his career numbers when all is said and done I think he might be on that level it's just hard right now to put him up with those greats when I can still see him play everyday. I don't think my brain can fathom him being in the same sentence as Gehrig. Like too watch a player be in the same category as him I can't wrap my head around yet

[bigmike]

Are you really comparing Ray Durham to Craig Biggio?

Well. Ray Durham only had 2,000 hits in his career. Who cares? A lot of guys are in that club.

If you make it to the 3,000 hit club you are great and worthy of the hall of fame. Unless you're Raphael Palmerio and you cheated for a large part of your career.

I'm not saying Craig Biggio is the greatest 2B ever or anything. And he definitely shouldn't be first ballot, but to say he shouldn't even sniff the hall of fame puzzles me.
Never understood "he's not a first ballot guy, but he should be in" mentality. Can someone, anyone explain it to me. In my understanding, you're a HOFer whether you get in on your 1st or 8th try, right? So why if someone isn't good enough to be in during their first year of eligibility do they become better over time?

[Scott Weber]

Are you really comparing Ray Durham to Craig Biggio?

Well. Ray Durham only had 2,000 hits in his career. Who cares? A lot of guys are in that club.

If you make it to the 3,000 hit club you are great and worthy of the hall of fame. Unless you're Raphael Palmerio and you cheated for a large part of your career.

I'm not saying Craig Biggio is the greatest 2B ever or anything. And he definitely shouldn't be first ballot, but to say he shouldn't even sniff the hall of fame puzzles me.
Biggio played a long time. The stretch in which he reached 2,200 to 3,000 hits was extremely mediocre. But 7-8 seasons of mediocrity makes him a hall of famer? How does that make sense? Fuck counting stats. It's just a number. Adrian Beltre has a shot to get 3,000 hits for goodness sake.

[Anton Djamoos]

Wilt Chamberlain.
Bingo.

Edit: I'd say most overrated not in terms of skill, but just overall team player. Great athlete and enormous potential, but his stats were skyrocketed because of selfishness.

[schenksta]

Jason Sehorn. Not really sure if he was thought of as a great football player, but he was definitely more famous than he should have been.

[catherinexhimel]

Rocky Balboa


That's just a character in a movie.

[xbrokendownx]

That's just a character in a movie.


dont tell people from Philadelphia that

[catherinexhimel]

dont tell people from Philadelphia that


Haha, I have before.

[benn10]

That's a joke.
No one's laughing.

[tfieldz]

the most overrated athlete of all time is happy gilmore. i mean, his drives were incredible but that's all that was good about him

[fightinirish217]

I think after he retires and I can see his career numbers when all is said and done I think he might be on that level it's just hard right now to put him up with those greats when I can still see him play everyday. I don't think my brain can fathom him being in the same sentence as Gehrig. Like too watch a player be in the same category as him I can't wrap my head around yet

Yea I totally understand, I feel the same way sometimes. We're watching a living legend as he's playing. Once he retires he'll be cemented as one of the all-time greats.

[ndoleman]

No one's laughing.
I did. Please prove how Crosby is overrated despite having pretty much every achievement in his sport before the age of 23.

[drawndead]

Yea I totally understand, I feel the same way sometimes. We're watching a living legend as he's playing. Once he retires he'll be cemented as one of the all-time greats.

absolutely. he's our generations mickey mantle to my future kids ha

[WakingTheMisery]

Shaq

[xbrokendownx]

...how is shaq overrated?

[benn10]

I did. Please prove how Crosby is overrated despite having pretty much every achievement in his sport before the age of 23.

I don't feel like it. Google search the keywords "Crosby" and "overrated" and you'll find your answer.

[xbrokendownx]

I don't feel like it. Google search the keywords "Crosby" and "overrated" and you'll find your answer.



dynamite! this guy is definitely on the debate team

[showmethefever]

Never understood "he's not a first ballot guy, but he should be in" mentality. Can someone, anyone explain it to me. In my understanding, you're a HOFer whether you get in on your 1st or 8th try, right? So why if someone isn't good enough to be in during their first year of eligibility do they become better over time?
I feel like the Baseball HOF is just fucked up in general.

[LikeAnAvalanche]

dynamite! this guy is definitely on the debate team

uugh2Xvt-J8&feature=related

[showmethefever]

I hate Crosby and I think that he is overrated in the sense that he's not the best player in the world, because when it comes to individual skill Oveckin is much better than Crosby. That being said, he's a great player and knows how to win games/championships whether I like it or not.

[sargentlgfuad]

definitely, that's why they were fined millions and had to forfeit draft picks? again, you don't know shit. have fun when the jets whoop your ass twice next year
ok. calm down. calm down. it's only the internet and it's only sports. you're right. three superbowls mean nothing. the lions could view video footage of other teams and win the superbowl, too. i understand.

[bigmike]

I hate Crosby and I think that he is overrated in the sense that he's not the best player in the world, because when it comes to individual skill Oveckin is much better than Crosby. That being said, he's a great player and knows how to win games/championships whether I like it or not.
Stunning development that you'd take Ovechkin over Crosby. Didn't see that coming. I'll take Sidney Crosby every single day of the week over OV.

[showmethefever]

Stunning development that you'd take Ovechkin over Crosby. Didn't see that coming. I'll take Sidney Crosby every single day of the week over OV.
Like I said, Ovechkin is the better individual player when it comes to skill, but to date, Crosby has been a much better winner.

[bigmike]

Like I said, Ovechkin is the better individual player when it comes to skill, but to date, Crosby has been a much better winner.
False. Give me the guy who wins more face offs than he loses, is a better passer, is a better leader, is better defensively and more marketable in North America because -- and this is sad, but a major factor -- he speaks english better and NHL fans don't like their Euro's (see: the bostonryan's and COTA's of the world in the NHL thread).

[showmethefever]

False. Give me the guy who wins more face offs than he loses, is a better passer, is a better leader, is better defensively and more marketable in North America because -- and this is sad, but a major factor -- he speaks english better and NHL fans don't like their Euro's (see: the bostonryan's and COTA's of the world in the NHL thread).
True. But Ovechkin's scoring, hitting and plus/minus numbers are much better. Different aspects, completely different players, so I guess it's more of an opinion. I just prefer Oveckin haha.

[bigmike]

True. But Ovechkin's scoring, hitting and plus/minus numbers are much better. Different aspects, completely different players, so I guess it's more of an opinion. I just prefer Oveckin haha.
Plus/minus is a flawed stat that is more dependent on your teams goal differential prowess -- not something that can be easily attributed to a player. You really think Schultz is the best d-man in the game because of his +36?

[showmethefever]

Plus/minus is a flawed stat that is more dependent on your teams goal differential prowess -- not something that can be easily attributed to a player. You really think Schultz is the best d-man in the game because of his +36?
Best d-man at being on the ice when the best offensive team scores. It's just nice to use because there's a pretty huge gap between both of them in that stat.

[bigmike]

Best d-man at being on the ice when the best offensive team scores. It's just nice to use because there's a pretty huge gap between both of them in that stat.
But why should he get credit because he happens to be on the ice with elite offensive forwards? He shouldn't. I hate +/-. Incredibly flawed.

Edit: And does he even control when he's on the ice? Nope. It's also a stat that's not only influenced heavily by team, but by coaches as well.

[showmethefever]

But why should he get credit because he happens to be on the ice with elite offensive forwards? He shouldn't. I hate +/-. Incredibly flawed.

Edit: And does he even control when he's on the ice? Nope. It's also a stat that's not only influenced heavily by team, but by coaches as well.
It is flawed because some players can have great +/- without really contributing or creating goals, but I think that Ovechkin does have a lot to do with a good amount of goals scored while he's out there.

[Echo Park]

every american soccer player

[Im Not Scene]

I know I'll get shit about this one because of my avatar, but LBJ. Good athlete. Completely over rated. He is a modern day Dominique Wilkins. The only main difference is his apg are higher. The rest is higher, but not enough to anoint him "the chosen one."

[Mibabalou]

every american soccer player

fuck off

[Im Not Scene]

PS- LBJ's MPG are higher also. I wonder what happens when you use the PER48 method instead of just averages.

[showmethefever]

every american soccer player
USA! USA! USA!

[bigmike]

It is flawed because some players can have great +/- without really contributing or creating goals, but I think that Ovechkin does have a lot to do with a good amount of goals scored while he's out there.
Who in the fuck is talking about Ovechkin's +/- at the moment. I was commenting on Schultz. OV does have a ton to do with his +/-.

[showmethefever]

Who in the fuck is talking about Ovechkin's +/- at the moment. I was commenting on Schultz. OV does have a ton to do with his +/-.
I brought up Ovechkin's, then you said it's flawed and brought up Schultz's as an example of that. I agreed and said that it's flawed because you have guys like Schultz who don't contribute a whole lot to their +/-, but Ovechkin did.

[LikeAnAvalanche]

LikeAnAvalanche and Derrick Rose
(http://absolutepunk.net/member.php?u=906752)

I'm hated on here, can't be over-rated. haha

[FondestMemory]

I know I'll get shit about this one because of my avatar, but LBJ. Good athlete. Completely over rated. He is a modern day Dominique Wilkins. The only main difference is his apg are higher. The rest is higher, but not enough to anoint him "the chosen one."

if hes completely overrated, who in the league is better than him?

He top two in the game without argument. So to be completetly overrated, does that mean hes not even top 10? Top 5?

[xbrokendownx]

I know I'll get shit about this one because of my avatar, but LBJ. Good athlete. Completely over rated. He is a modern day Dominique Wilkins. The only main difference is his apg are higher. The rest is higher, but not enough to anoint him "the chosen one."



lol says the Magic fan.

[LikeAnAvalanche]

every american soccer player

hahahha

:appl:

[WordsAndFears]

Disagree that he's let it get to his head. I'd say he does a pretty good job, especially with the amount of press and other media stuff he has to do all the time. Not to mention he's had the weight of the NHL on his shoulders since he was 16 years old.
yeah, i see your point there, fair enough.

[Im Not Scene]

if hes completely overrated, who in the league is better than him?

He top two in the game without argument. So to be completetly overrated, does that mean hes not even top 10? Top 5?


I guess what I see is that as an athlete he's over rated. He is definitely in the top FIVE currently, (Wade. Kobe. Dirk. CP3. No particular order.) but he's not in the top 20 all time. He constantly whines if calls don't go his way. He expects a foul called every time he drives down the lane. He's a poor sport. I went to a Chris Paul charity event in Winston Salem, with a good 20 NBA players in attendance, and he was the ONLY on who was unapproachable because he had body guards who wouldn't let you within 5 feet of the guy. I guess a few high flying dunks that don't usually mean anything in blow out wins make you an air to Jordans throne.

[FondestMemory]

yes. because all lebron is known for is high flying dunks in meaningless blowout games.

nothing you pointed out has anything at all to do with his ability as a basketball player. everything you criticized has to do with his personality.

it's only his seventh year in the league, and his resume of milestones already would make for an impressive career. by the time he's done, he'll not only be in the top 20 all time, but he'll be very high in that list.

this is just another case of "that guy's overrated because i don't like him."

[livethesounds]

lol "dudes overrated cause he has body guards and i couldn't talk to him".

[LikeAnAvalanche]

I also kind of think LeBron is over-rated.

I'm not saying he is bad in the least, but some of the accolades he gets are just insane.

[livethesounds]

I also kind of think LeBron is over-rated.

I'm not saying he is bad in the least, but some of the accolades he gets are just insane.

as in?

[LikeAnAvalanche]

as in?

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/9928/david-stern-lebron-james-may-be-best-ever

And there are MANY more.

[theactionblast]

Hey there - let's stick with gtfo. It lands nicer.

Not a fan of internet lingo, sorry dawg.

I would respond to your points, but this discussion was had ad naseum already in the thread. And I'll say this: the 93/94 season showed me one thing - Pippen isn't a leader. A leader is somebody who does whatever he can to help his team win when they need it most. The minute he refused to enter the game when the final play wasn't designed for him he proved to the world why he was the second option for most of his career. People like Jordan/Bird/Magic all wanted the ball - but they wouldn't refuse to enter if they didn't get that final shot. No true leader would.


The fact that you think Pippen is not a leader does not make him overrated the dude had great numbers and played his heart out.

[And Hours Pass]

The fact that you think Pippen is not a leader does not make him overrated the dude had great numbers and played his heart out.
Where have you been for the past week that you're just responding to this now?

And yes, it does. The top 50 should be made up of incredible leaders in the game. You think it's just great numbers?

Player 1 (Career #'s): 16.1 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 5.2 apg
Player 2 (Career #'s): 18 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 4.5 apg

If you think it's just numbers alone, then let's welcome your choice, player 1, Scottie Pippen, and what would seemingly be your other choice, player 2, Grant Hill.

Show me 10 people that think Grant Hill's top 50. Pippen wasn't a leader, and solely great numbers does not a top 50 player make.


(I say this with sincerity - if you respond to this today/tomorrow, I'm happy to keep discussing this with you. But this was discussed ad nauseum over a week ago, and I'd rather not bother with it next week.)

[theactionblast]

Where have you been for the past week that you're just responding to this now?

And yes, it does. The top 50 should be made up of incredible leaders in the game. You think it's just great numbers?

Player 1 (Career #'s): 16.1 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 5.2 apg
Player 2 (Career #'s): 18 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 4.5 apg

If you think it's just numbers alone, then let's welcome your choice, player 1, Scottie Pippen, and what would seemingly be your other choice, player 2, Grant Hill.

Show me 10 people that think Grant Hill's top 50. Pippen wasn't a leader, and solely great numbers does not a top 50 player make.


(I say this with sincerity - if you respond to this today/tomorrow, I'm happy to keep discussing this with you. But this was discussed ad nauseum over a week ago, and I'd rather not bother with it next week.)


I think Scottie Pippen was an unreal talent dude Scottie Pippen is Robin to MJ's Batman. I seriously think without MJ around they could have built a team around Scottie and still won a championship. The dude really was just a killer wingman. The fact is it was Michaels team and not Scottie's, given the situation that MJ was gone, scottie would have had better #'s and would have been the go to guy. Even MJ recognizes how great Pippen was, why can't you? haha.

[FondestMemory]

Why does a list thats almost 15 years old keep getting brought up? Its fucking irrelevant.

[And Hours Pass]

I think Scottie Pippen was an unreal talent dude Scottie Pippen is Robin to MJ's Batman. I seriously think without MJ around they could have built a team around Scottie and still won a championship. The dude really was just a killer wingman. The fact is it was Michaels team and not Scottie's, given the situation that MJ was gone, scottie would have had better #'s and would have been the go to guy. Even MJ recognizes how great Pippen was, why can't you? haha.

The bolded made me laugh. Very nice metaphor. Unfortunately the two of us can only speculate what would've happened without MJ. My opinion is that Pippen had the opportunity to step up and in the 93/94 conference semi-finals showed that he wasn't primed to lead that team. I think he's good, but I just can't put him in the top 50 which inherently means he's overrated in my eyes.

[And Hours Pass]

Why does a list thats almost 15 years old keep getting brought up? Its fucking irrelevant.
Because it still stands! Until the list becomes irrelevant, it will continue to be discussed. It hasn't been revised or revisited, and hence is the current standard.

[xbrokendownx]

how does it still stand? theres been a handful of players to play since then that would be added to that list and replace guys

Kobe, Lebron, Garnett, Duncan, possibly Nash, possibly Wade

[FondestMemory]

The list is already irrelevant. You wont hear many people touting pippen as a top 50 player right now.

At the time that list was made, the bulls were in the middle of winning multiple titles. Jordan and pippen were dominating the league. Pippen was a current pick because he was playing at such a high level at the time.

Just like if you were to make a list right now there would be current players on it that dont belong just because theyre playing at a hig level right now.

The list is outdated and irrelevant. To reference that over and over again as the basis to an argument seems silly to me.

[theactionblast]

Who's to say Pippen wouldn't make the new list, His only non post season apperance was in his final season. I think Pippen stays.

[TEAMRAMROD]

:-d at LBJ being overrated.

[greenteaallday]

I guess what I see is that as an athlete he's over rated. He is definitely in the top FIVE currently, (Wade. Kobe. Dirk. CP3. No particular order.) but he's not in the top 20 all time. He constantly whines if calls don't go his way. He expects a foul called every time he drives down the lane. He's a poor sport. I went to a Chris Paul charity event in Winston Salem, with a good 20 NBA players in attendance, and he was the ONLY on who was unapproachable because he had body guards who wouldn't let you within 5 feet of the guy. I guess a few high flying dunks that don't usually mean anything in blow out wins make you an air to Jordans throne.

You've just lost all credibility.

No one is better in the game, and he is his mid twenty's. Enough said.

[xbrokendownx]

have you ever watched tim duncan play? dude complains more than anyone in NBA history, yet is still considered a top player all time.

[iihungrieii]

have you ever watched tim duncan play? dude complains more than anyone in NBA history, yet is still considered a top player all time.

i think kobe complains more

[Anton Djamoos]

have you ever watched tim duncan play? dude complains more than anyone in NBA history, yet is still considered a top player all time.
Vlade Divac and Sasha Vujacic complain more.

[Anton Djamoos]

how does it still stand? theres been a handful of players to play since then that would be added to that list and replace guys

Kobe, Lebron, Garnett, Duncan, possibly Nash, possibly Wade
What about Kidd?

[xbrokendownx]

yea, i forgot about Kidd. just further proves my point

[Anton Djamoos]

yea, i forgot about Kidd. just further proves my point
You also forgot Penny Hardaway.

[SentientBeing]

Pippen's appearance on the dream team - Isiah Thomas was passed over for Pippen when he had just finished leading the Pistons to 2 NBA Championships. Pippen was in no way more qualified than Isiah and certainly didn't belong on this team. He coat-tailed in with Jordan.

Isiah wasn't just coming off two titles. He was coming off getting swept by the Bulls and organizing a sore-loser "walk out" before the game was over. The fact is he rubbed many players/coaches the wrong way and no one wanted him on the team (including his best buddy Magic who admitted it years later). Pippen's star was rising and the committee wanted him on the team. He was the 4th player picked. And the funny thing is Isiah's coach Chuck Daly (the coach of the Dream Team) was so enamored with Pippen's skill that he went as far as to say Pippen was the 2nd best player on that team behind Jordan which says a lot considering the company he was in.

Pippen's defense on Magic Johnson won the 1991 NBA finals - BS. This is such a ridiculous statement. You can see the following stats:

Johnson's 1991 NBA Finals Stats: 18.6 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 12.4 apg
Johnson's 1991 NBA Finals Stats while guarded by Pippen: 18.5 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 12.8 apg

Doesn't look like much of a defensive shutdown to me...


Stop showing your ignorance here. Pippen's defense on Magic was very important because for the second straight game Jordan got in early foul trouble trying to guard Magic. It was obvious he couldn't do it. Magic was having his way with him. Secondly, once Pippen was switched on to Magic it limited LA's fast break attack. Pippen ball-hawked Magic up and down the floor to slow him down. This made LA play a more half court game which is where they didn't want to be against Chicago's smothering defense. Defense doesn't always show up on the stat sheet son.

- seriously? Unselfish? Look no further than 93-94 conference semi-final. No phenomenal player would ever refuse to enter a game when a play wasn't designed for them. That's just absurd.

One play in the heat of the moment doesn't define a career. Pippen had the talent to ballhog and jack up 20+ shots like these overrated guards/forwards we see today but he didn't. He played balanced team ball and competed on both sides of the ball. All of his teammates/coaches speak very highly of him.




And yes, it does. The top 50 should be made up of incredible leaders in the game. You think it's just great numbers?

Player 1 (Career #'s): 16.1 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 5.2 apg
Player 2 (Career #'s): 18 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 4.5 apg

If you think it's just numbers alone, then let's welcome your choice, player 1, Scottie Pippen, and what would seemingly be your other choice, player 2, Grant Hill.

Show me 10 people that think Grant Hill's top 50. Pippen wasn't a leader, and solely great numbers does not a top 50 player make.


(I say this with sincerity - if you respond to this today/tomorrow, I'm happy to keep discussing this with you. But this was discussed ad nauseum over a week ago, and I'd rather not bother with it next week.)

That argument is ridiculous. Did you conveniently forget about the other side of the ball? Grant Hill never came close to playing the kind of defense Pippen did. Scottie Pippen made 10 All-Defense teams. His defense changed games/series. He's regarded as one of the best perimeter defenders of all-time. That's not going to show up on a stat sheet. And as far as Pippen's leadership goes I'll take his coach's word for it...

“On the Bulls, Scottie was probably the player most liked by others. He mingled. He brought out the best in players and communicated the best. Leadership, real leadership is one of his strengths. Everybody says Michael was a great leader.He led by example, by rebuke, by harsh words. Scottie’s leadership was equally dominant, but his was a leadership of patting on the back, of support.”


-Phil Jackson

[Im Not Scene]

You've just lost all credibility.

No one is better in the game, and he is his mid twenty's. Enough said.

We'll see how many championships he wins. This year is going to be his best chance, and I hope the Magic stomp on them again in the ECF.

[troubledbyinsects]

who gives two fucks if someone complains a lot? newsflash, almost every NBA player complains when calls don't go their way.

[And Hours Pass]

Isiah wasn't just coming off two titles. He was coming off getting swept by the Bulls and organizing a sore-loser "walk out" before the game was over. The fact is he rubbed many players/coaches the wrong way and no one wanted him on the team (including his best buddy Magic who admitted it years later). Pippen's star was rising and the committee wanted him on the team. He was the 4th player picked. And the funny thing is Isiah's coach Chuck Daly (the coach of the Dream Team) was so enamored with Pippen's skill that he went as far as to say Pippen was the 2nd best player on that team behind Jordan which says a lot considering the company he was in.



Stop showing your ignorance here. Pippen's defense on Magic was very important because for the second straight game Jordan got in early foul trouble trying to guard Magic. It was obvious he couldn't do it. Magic was having his way with him. Secondly, once Pippen was switched on to Magic it limited LA's fast break attack. Pippen ball-hawked Magic up and down the floor to slow him down. This made LA play a more half court game which is where they didn't want to be against Chicago's smothering defense. Defense doesn't always show up on the stat sheet son.



One play in the heat of the moment doesn't define a career. Pippen had the talent to ballhog and jack up 20+ shots like these overrated guards/forwards we see today but he didn't. He played balanced team ball and competed on both sides of the ball. All of his teammates/coaches speak very highly of him.




That argument is ridiculous. Did you conveniently forget about the other side of the ball? Grant Hill never came close to playing the kind of defense Pippen did. Scottie Pippen made 10 All-Defense teams. His defense changed games/series. He's regarded as one of the best perimeter defenders of all-time. That's not going to show up on a stat sheet. And as far as Pippen's leadership goes I'll take his coach's word for it...

“On the Bulls, Scottie was probably the player most liked by others. He mingled. He brought out the best in players and communicated the best. Leadership, real leadership is one of his strengths. Everybody says Michael was a great leader.He led by example, by rebuke, by harsh words. Scottie’s leadership was equally dominant, but his was a leadership of patting on the back, of support.”


-Phil Jackson
If this hadn't been discussed ad nauseum last week, I would've responded to all this. Read through all the discussions in the thread and you can see the back and forth.

[FondestMemory]

Theres no back and forth.

Theres people making valid points and you disagreeing with them by bringing up a 15 year old list and the time he didnt enter the game over and over again.

[mr. man]

I know I'm a fan, but to say Tom Brady is ridiculous to me. (Glad a lot of people have already stood up for him) We're talking about a guy who has been on three championship teams, has thrown 50 TDs in a season. I know teams win championships, and I totally agree, but we're talking about 3 championships. Is Peyton probably a better QB? I'd say so. But he does have a tough time winning the big one, which hurts him in the discussion. Whether is fair or not, thats up to the individual judging the situation. And spygate...sure it probably helped, but I like the fact that someone brought up the "if the lions got their hands on everyone's signals through film" argument.

I'm ashamed of a lot of the names being thrown out there. Most people on this list are, or at least were, studs, or were integral parts of championship teams. I think when "best ever" gets thrown out there, thats the only time I say someone is overrated. Its happened with Tommy Boy, its happened with Peyton, its happened with Kobe or Lebron, and its happened with ARod and even Albert. Look, they're not the best ever....yet. Quit saying it. They are awesome, will continue to be awesome, but are not the best ever.

[wuduprod]

Mario Lemieux

[DD21345]

pete sampras

[theactionblast]

If this hadn't been discussed ad nauseum last week, I would've responded to all this. Read through all the discussions in the thread and you can see the back and forth.

Looks like your most over rated athlete of all time will be joining the Hall of fame this year. :)

[CheckeredFloors]

He's not the most overrated athlete ever but I hate hearing about how good Brandon Jennings is.
37% FG percentage is just abyssmal

[LikeAnAvalanche]

He's not the most overrated athlete ever but I hate hearing about how good Brandon Jennings is.
37% FG percentage is just abyssmal

I agree, but his team wins, and he's a big part of it, and he's only a rookie, so he will get A LOT better.