christians and punk music and what a christian has to say

[mrpostman]

So I wrote this out a few days ago in a blog entry and thought I would share it with people on here to get feedback from both Christians and non-Christains....this is not a way to convert anybody, this is simply my view on things...I hope to get some interesting comments and look foward to reading them...

Christianity today....hmmm what do we think of when we hear that...of course its the negative things...there are idiots saying God hates ****, and people in general saying the country is going to the crapper because of gays and whatever else....taking scripture and twisting it into what they want. I have my beliefs and what is sin and such and I know I sin every day of my life. I don't think I am better then anybody else and I thank God that He is around to help me out, because I am pretty much worthless without Him....

Anyways it is sad that Christians are viewed as basically intolerant idiots by most of America. This comes up in my mind because of something I saw on Fuse of a few days ago from the warped tour, it was called inside out or something like that. Anyways, they were showing the punk band NOFX playing at warped tour....Fat Mike the lead singer used many breaks in the music to hate on either Underoath or Christianity or Underoath for being Christians, then he showed up to a Bible study that underoath helped lead with several other bands at warped tour, he was drunk and just gave most the guys their a hard time. He hated on Christianity the whole time and frankly made himself look like an idiot since he is a huge advocate for being tolerant and such when he is being incredibly intolerant towards Christians. This doesn't bother me coming from him, because really he is an uneducated lead singer of a punk band that thinks punk rock is about "pissing people off". Punk rock isn't about that, it does piss people off sometimes but isn't about that...but whatever....

But really all of this is being said because the thing is there are educated people out there that hold the same views as fat mike, they don't go around bashing on Christians and calling Jesus names or anything, but they feel the same way. I wish there was something I could do to change that, if people hated me for the plan fact I was a Christian then i would be angry i think towards them, but its not really that, its because Christian leaders are too busy thinking politics is the way to solve all the problems in this country, they spend money in courts and other such things instead of just trying to focus on loving people and doing what Jesus called us to do.

I go to Liberty University, which if you don't know is headed up by Jerry Falwell. I have had the pleasure of meeting him several times and he really is a nice guy and he really does love people and he is really doing a lot of things that are helping people and showing God's love to many people. But the problem that I have with him is how much money and time he and Jerry Falwell ministries puts into politics and fighting things in court. he is in ministry and I just feel that his focus should be on ways to show people God's love and in time these other things will work themselves out. That is my belief. I never once saw Jesus spending tons of money or going to courts to change laws or whatever, he was simply about showing people love and knowing as long as they love God and went after a relationship that in time things would change and that things would work out for the best.

I will end this long entry with this. There is a lot of crap in the world, it is going to get worse as we get older its just the way it is. God didn't call us to change laws he called us to first love him and second to show the rest of the world his love. We have forgotten that overall as a church in America and this is why so many people are turning away from Christianity.

Wow this has been long....

so as you can see this was kind of targeted towards Christians, but I think it would be great if other people that may not agree with me spoke up...I am all about having discussions about these kind of things...its always very interesting how people view things differently

[boysdontcry17]

thats a big ass post. maybe i'll read it later lol.

[mrpostman]

thats a big ass post. maybe i'll read it later lol.

haha you're right....sorry, i thought about making it shorter, but it says everything that i want to say, so I didn't

[dbarker02]

I think any statement saying something positive about Jerry Falwell makes the rest of the post pretty much null and void.

[RiotChick]

dude, what fucker thinks christians say god hates ****?!?!? this guy i know, Macon, has been openly gay since he was 16, and he fuckin WORKS for a Christian Foundation.

[Caleb Cattivera]

dude, what fucker thinks christians say god hates ****?!?!? this guy i know, Macon, has been openly gay since he was 16, and he fuckin WORKS for a Christian Foundation.

god doesnt hate them, but he doesnt approve of it. i have gay ffriends, but i know they're going to hell.

[dbarker02]

dude, what fucker thinks christians say god hates ****?!?!? this guy i know, Macon, has been openly gay since he was 16, and he fuckin WORKS for a Christian Foundation.

I believe he was referencing the Westboro Baptist Church. You can find out all about them at http://www.godhatesfags.com

Or

You can this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gubiP3mP3Ds). Be warned, you'll probably get sick.

[Czarsy]

Didn't read.

[mrpostman]

I think any statement saying something positive about Jerry Falwell makes the rest of the post pretty much null and void.

I understand where you come from saying something like that, he has said some dumb things in the past, people have also twisted his words in the past too. There are many positive things he does and his ministry does...they have a home for unwed mother's who families reject them because they think they are wicked sinners, there is a home people sturggling with drugs, there is a place for kids with rough family lives to go to in downtown lyncburg, virginia if need...this is just the beginning of the list of positive things...yes he does some things I don't agree with, but is there really a person on this earth that we can agree with on everything? If you read my entire post you would realize i don't see eye to eye on jerry falwell on a lot of things, i said he is a nice guy and does a lot of positive things which are facts.....

I believe he was referencing the Westboro Baptist Church. You can find out all about them at http://www.godhatesfags.com (http://www.godhatesfags.com/)

Or

You can this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gubiP3mP3Ds). Be warned, you'll probably get sick.

yeah that is exactly what I am talking about, these kind of Christians really do make me sick and is the reason why people like fat mike have such a hard time saying anything good about christians....and really who could blame him?

[boysdontcry17]

dude, what fucker thinks christians say god hates ****?!?!? this guy i know, Macon, has been openly gay since he was 16, and he fuckin WORKS for a Christian Foundation.

your name is riotchick. have you ever being in a riot? i was once, some crazy shit.

[punklet2101]

Nice..
I agree on a lot of things here,
i too hate that we have that reputation and it needs to be changed.

[punklet2101]

dude, what fucker thinks christians say god hates ****?!?!? this guy i know, Macon, has been openly gay since he was 16, and he fuckin WORKS for a Christian Foundation.

yeah. there are a few gay guys in my church and they are as much welcome as the next person and i think thats the way it should be

[x togepi x]

yes, I don't understand how some Christians will willingly ignore the parts of the bible that say you shouldn't shave or eat shellfish or wear clothing made of multiple blended fibers, but harp on homosexuality. it doesn't make any sense.

anyway, Christians have the same problem that communists have. People took their belief system, twisted it around and used it to serve an agenda and now people think it's bullshit without thinking of the merits of the entire system.

my only problem with Christianity and punk rock comes from this: Punk is rooted in anti-authority. The church can be a huge example of authority. My only question is that, do these Christian bands follow the edicts of their church/denomination without thinking about it? i know that there can be tons of of really anti-authoritarian sects of Christianity, I just wonder if these bands really represent that or if they actually do represent conservative fundamentalist Christianity, which doesn't have a place in punk. at least, in my opinion.

[mrpostman]

yes, I don't understand how some Christians will willingly ignore the parts of the bible that say you shouldn't shave or eat shellfish or wear clothing made of multiple blended fibers, but harp on homosexuality. it doesn't make any sense.

anyway, Christians have the same problem that communists have. People took their belief system, twisted it around and used it to serve an agenda and now people think it's bullshit without thinking of the merits of the entire system.

my only problem with Christianity and punk rock comes from this: Punk is rooted in anti-authority. The church can be a huge example of authority. My only question is that, do these Christian bands follow the edicts of their church/denomination without thinking about it? i know that there can be tons of of really anti-authoritarian sects of Christianity, I just wonder if these bands really represent that or if they actually do represent conservative fundamentalist Christianity, which doesn't have a place in punk. at least, in my opinion.

i am not sure if punk rock really started as anti-authority...it started as people were sick of the same old music and people wanted something different....through out the years some punk bands have decided to be anti-authority which is cool, i think punk rock is about being different and accepting all people and just giving kids a place they feel welcomed...that is really how it started...i also would dare to say most bands with christians in them aren't conservative fundamentalist...if that was the case then they would be burning punk albums....

[x togepi x]

No, punk started as an anti-authoritarian form of music. It rebelled against the state of the music industry and any punk band worth listening to back when it started had an anti-authoritarian message.

as for you comment about conservative christianity not being found in punk bands, I used to agree...but now there's that lame conservative punk movement so I really have no idea. I'm just not educated about christian punk/hardcore band's stances on various political issues. I asked about Underoath's stance on homosexuality and nobody answered that.

There are strains of hardcore conservative christianity in punk. I don't think they belong, however, I see nothing wrong with liberal christianity since Jesus sounded pretty punk.

[dai the flu]

yes, I don't understand how some Christians will willingly ignore the parts of the bible that say you shouldn't shave or eat shellfish or wear clothing made of multiple blended fibers, but harp on homosexuality. it doesn't make any sense.

ill answer that for you. the parts about shaving or certain foods and all of that was in the hebrew scriptures intended for the israelites to follow. its called the mosaic law code. when jesus came to earth, his followers were not supposed to follow that law code anymore and he instead instituted a new one based on love in the christian greek scriptures. but also in the christian greek scriptures are laws against homosexuality. those other laws you mentioned though were no longer requirements.

[mrpostman]

[quote=x togepi x;3945897]No, punk started as an anti-authoritarian form of music. It rebelled against the state of the music industry and any punk band worth listening to back when it started had an anti-authoritarian message.

as for you comment about conservative christianity not being found in punk bands, I used to agree...but now there's that lame conservative punk movement so I really have no idea. I'm just not educated about christian punk/hardcore band's stances on various political issues. I asked about Underoath's stance on homosexuality and nobody answered that.

There are strains of hardcore conservative christianity in punk. I don't think they belong, however, I see nothing wrong with liberal christianity since Jesus sounded pretty punk.[/quoty

yeah, that is what i meant, it formed as an alternative to what the music industry had to offer and many times these artist were frustrated with corporate america.

As far as politics goes, I have a very good mix of conservative and liberal views and I think that is really what you will find in most christian based acts, I can not speak for most of them, but I am sure most of them are a good mix....I was just saying I doubt they are conservative fundamentalists which by the definition stick to every fundamental in the Bible even if in the old testament which aside from a view things Jesus spoke about while on earth is no longer valid....anyways, this isn't about theology,,,,typically what someone would call a fundamentalist is one of these kind of Christians that believes rock music is evil and all sorts of wacked out beliefs...

anyways, i just woke up, so hopefully this makes a little sense

[x togepi x]

As far as politics goes, I have a very good mix of conservative and liberal views and I think that is really what you will find in most christian based acts, I can not speak for most of them, but I am sure most of them are a good mix....I was just saying I doubt they are conservative fundamentalists which by the definition stick to every fundamental in the Bible even if in the old testament which aside from a view things Jesus spoke about while on earth is no longer valid....anyways, this isn't about theology,,,,typically what someone would call a fundamentalist is one of these kind of Christians that believes rock music is evil and all sorts of wacked out beliefs...

anyways, i just woke up, so hopefully this makes a little sense

what you said makes sense.

You can consider Christianity to be anti-authoritarian, especially the kind that says you can be whoever you are and it doesn't matter, what matters is your relationship with God. I have no problem with that kind of Christianity in the scene. I just don't like fundamentalist Christianity like conservatives push.

I do feel it is entering the scene, especially through the hardline/edge kids. I'm kind of an anamoly in my local scene because I'm a nonChristian edge kid, but many edge kids often trumpet conservative's positions on homosexuality or at least they do here.

I disagree with your statement about fundamentalists hating rock and roll. That sort of thing is changing. Fundamentalists are opening up to the media because they can use it ot further their beliefs. Hell, there's even going to be a fundamentalist video game where you try to convert nonbelievers and if they don't, you can just kill them.

I want to agree with you when you say that bands like Underoath aren't like fundamentalists, but I've never been able to talk with them about politics/life or really see an interview with them where they discuss that. maybe these christian bands are just apolitical, which is cool for them, but I just wonder where they stand on these issues and if that comes out in their music.

[x togepi x]

i didn't see this post

ill answer that for you. the parts about shaving or certain foods and all of that was in the hebrew scriptures intended for the israelites to follow. its called the mosaic law code. when jesus came to earth, his followers were not supposed to follow that law code anymore and he instead instituted a new one based on love in the christian greek scriptures. but also in the christian greek scriptures are laws against homosexuality. those other laws you mentioned though were no longer requirements.

I don't think the greek scripture comdemns homosexuality. I think it condemns lust on a whole. No where in the bible are homosexuals protrayed as capable of having loving relationships. the part you're referring to, romans?, refers to people who were so overcome with lust that they turned to same sex relations. That's not really homosexuality, since homosexuals are wired to like the same sex. These people changed in ritual.

romans can also be interpreted as a comdemnation of pagan ritual that happened at the time. if it's a ritual, it's not really a loving homosexual relationship.

besides, those passages from the greek scripture may not even be criticizing homosexuality as a whole, but rather the practices of greek culture. It was a common rite of passage for teenage boys to have sex with older men. Also, male prostitution was a common occurence. You see this in the root of the word Lady..which basically comes from lad: the word originally meaning, a girl that looks like a boy. The church at the time could have seen these seemingly homosexual relationships as based on lust and therefore condemned it.

I repeat myself, nowhere in the bible does it ever talk about two people of the same sex loving each other as if that's a sin.

[dai the flu]

i didn't see this post



I don't think the greek scripture comdemns homosexuality. I think it condemns lust on a whole. No where in the bible are homosexuals protrayed as capable of having loving relationships. the part you're referring to, romans?, refers to people who were so overcome with lust that they turned to same sex relations. That's not really homosexuality, since homosexuals are wired to like the same sex. These people changed in ritual.

romans can also be interpreted as a comdemnation of pagan ritual that happened at the time. if it's a ritual, it's not really a loving homosexual relationship.

besides, those passages from the greek scripture may not even be criticizing homosexuality as a whole, but rather the practices of greek culture. It was a common rite of passage for teenage boys to have sex with older men. Also, male prostitution was a common occurence. You see this in the root of the word Lady..which basically comes from lad: the word originally meaning, a girl that looks like a boy. The church at the time could have seen these seemingly homosexual relationships as based on lust and therefore condemned it.

I repeat myself, nowhere in the bible does it ever talk about two people of the same sex loving each other as if that's a sin.

fair enough. everybody seems to have their own interpretation of certain scriptures. im not putting down your opinions on matters, i just wanted to explain why the older laws of the hebrew scriptures are no longer in effect for christians.

i have a question though about this statement you made...'you can be whoever you want and it doesnt matter, what matters is your relationship with god'. i know you werent exactly putting that out there as your own personal belief, maybe it is, maybe it isnt. but my question is...can you really have a good relationship with god if you're knowingly not living up to his standards?

[x togepi x]

honestly, I'm not sure how to answer that. I mean, I think I could, but it might sound patronizing or something.

[catchmealone]

god doesnt hate them, but he doesnt approve of it. i have gay ffriends, but i know they're going to hell.

Oh come on Caleb, you can't condemn your gay friends to hell. Their post-life future is in God's hands, and can only be altered through their own actions and the actions of God.

As for the actual post, it had some fair points, but when I saw it posted as "christians and punk music and what a christian has to say", I was somewhat disappointed, because it had minimal to do with punk music and how it pertains to Christianity........or perhaps I just had a much different view of what the content was going to be.

Personal belief, look at some of the older, more influential punk bands. Minor Threat, they wrote plenty about anti-religion. Bad Religion are definitly anti-religious. Dead Kennedy's were also. I feel punk was kinda formed and brought about this mentality of "Anti-Reagan", "Anti-Religion", and "Anti-norm". Back in the roots of punk, people who recently converted to Christianity would leave the scene. It just seems like punk was started to get away from things like Christianity.

You didn't have Christian influenced punk bands back then. I'll be the first to admit I'm not the guru of music, but I can't think of that many, if any, Christian punk bands from the 80's. I'm sure there were some, but they were by far outnumbered and more than likely ridiculed. Punk only became acceptable to Christianity once a watered down version of punk became acceptable to most of America. And by that time, the ideals and beliefs punk once stood for were kind of dead.

Once again, that's purely opinion. Discuss.

[x togepi x]

You didn't have Christian influenced punk bands back then. I'll be the first to admit I'm not the guru of music, but I can't think of that many, if any, Christian punk bands from the 80's. I'm sure there were some, but they were by far outnumbered and more than likely ridiculed. Punk only became acceptable to Christianity once a watered down version of punk became acceptable to most of America. And by that time, the ideals and beliefs punk once stood for were kind of dead.




i think bad brains morphed into a christian band.

[catchmealone]

i think bad brains morphed into a christian band.
That's Rastafarian

[mrpostman]

[quote=catchmealone;3962352

Personal belief, look at some of the older, more influential punk bands. Minor Threat, they wrote plenty about anti-religion. Bad Religion are definitly anti-religious. Dead Kennedy's were also. I feel punk was kinda formed and brought about this mentality of "Anti-Reagan", "Anti-Religion", and "Anti-norm". Back in the roots of punk, people who recently converted to Christianity would leave the scene. It just seems like punk was started to get away from things like Christianity.

You didn't have Christian influenced punk bands back then. I'll be the first to admit I'm not the guru of music, but I can't think of that many, if any, Christian punk bands from the 80's. I'm sure there were some, but they were by far outnumbered and more than likely ridiculed. Punk only became acceptable to Christianity once a watered down version of punk became acceptable to most of America. And by that time, the ideals and beliefs punk once stood for were kind of dead.

Once again, that's purely opinion. Discuss.[/quote]

you're right there wasn't a lot of christian influence punk bands in the 80's, i think really what happend is a lot of christians got sick of how today's church is and how they felt as if their relationship with God was more important then a certain set of rules, so then christians began forming more and more punk/rock/whatever bands because they were sick of being put into some box simply because they were christians

anyways, you are right punk started as more of an anti-religion type of thing, but punk rock isn't about just one thing, its about giving people something different, its about having fun, its sometimes about a message, i am sure there are some old school punks that really are pissed at the whole christian thing, but i think if they sat down and talked to these bands that they would see that they aren't so different....

my opinions anyways....

[punklet2101]

i didn't see this post



I don't think the greek scripture comdemns homosexuality. I think it condemns lust on a whole. No where in the bible are homosexuals protrayed as capable of having loving relationships. the part you're referring to, romans?, refers to people who were so overcome with lust that they turned to same sex relations. That's not really homosexuality, since homosexuals are wired to like the same sex. These people changed in ritual.

romans can also be interpreted as a comdemnation of pagan ritual that happened at the time. if it's a ritual, it's not really a loving homosexual relationship.

besides, those passages from the greek scripture may not even be criticizing homosexuality as a whole, but rather the practices of greek culture. It was a common rite of passage for teenage boys to have sex with older men. Also, male prostitution was a common occurence. You see this in the root of the word Lady..which basically comes from lad: the word originally meaning, a girl that looks like a boy. The church at the time could have seen these seemingly homosexual relationships as based on lust and therefore condemned it.

I repeat myself, nowhere in the bible does it ever talk about two people of the same sex loving each other as if that's a sin.

nice points there, another interesting way to look at it

[FrankMareno]

lmao i love NOFX

[Liarsenic]

Not as many christian bands are so reliant on conservative christianity as you would think. Especially the ones playing on Warped Tour for instance. The guys in Underoath have always been very friendly and have never, in my experience, been the kind of dudes to shove their beliefs down anyone's throats. A lot of christian bands that also have mainstream success are the same way. Their personal inspiration and purpose comes from their beliefs, much in the same way bands like the sex pistols and the stooges were inspired by their anti-authoritarian beliefs.
I agree that bands that try to "witness" to secular crowds or things of that sort can be seen as a band using the punk sound to trap kids into listening to their message. But it's important to not only listen to the bands lyrics but also the approach they take.

[mrpostman]

lmao i love NOFX


Glad to hear it, but just so you know this post was not inspired by NOFX, it was months of other things said so I thought that now with all the stupid NOFX/Underoath crap going on I would post some thoughts on Christianity and music....

[Ilovepoprock]

that video makes me sick. they are ignoring what god says is the most important commandment 'love god and other'.

[x togepi x]

Not as many christian bands are so reliant on conservative christianity as you would think. Especially the ones playing on Warped Tour for instance. The guys in Underoath have always been very friendly and have never, in my experience, been the kind of dudes to shove their beliefs down anyone's throats. A lot of christian bands that also have mainstream success are the same way. Their personal inspiration and purpose comes from their beliefs, much in the same way bands like the sex pistols and the stooges were inspired by their anti-authoritarian beliefs.
I agree that bands that try to "witness" to secular crowds or things of that sort can be seen as a band using the punk sound to trap kids into listening to their message. But it's important to not only listen to the bands lyrics but also the approach they take.

my problem is that they're so soft spoken that we don't really know what christian beliefs they have. some times the most soft spoken are also the most extremist. if punk doesn't question these christian band's motives, it'd be really easy for a fundamentalist band to start up and gain a following. That's why I don't like the precedent that we shouldn't be criticizing Christian bands because it's criticizing a religion.

I mean, I don't care if they're spreading the good news as long as it's a version that doesn't preach hate.

[Liarsenic]

my problem is that they're so soft spoken that we don't really know what christian beliefs they have. some times the most soft spoken are also the most extremist. if punk doesn't question these christian band's motives, it'd be really easy for a fundamentalist band to start up and gain a following. That's why I don't like the precedent that we shouldn't be criticizing Christian bands because it's criticizing a religion.

I mean, I don't care if they're spreading the good news as long as it's a version that doesn't preach hate.


I agree whole heartedly. It should also be reciprocated to secular punk bands, so that we don't end up with tons of punk bands that think they have to shove politics into their music in order to be considered punk rock or whatever. I agree that politics has its place in punk rock, but there are a lot of bands out there that just bash Bush because it's the thing to do, or just criticize the same elements of government as all the other bands out there. Personally, I thought Green Day's approach to their newly embraced political side was hamfisted and stupid, seeing as though their fan base is made up mostly of 14 year old girls. I mean for god's sake (sorry Underoath) Dookie was about smoking pot, masturbating and being bored in suburbia, but now they want to be the next amabassadors for music in politics? It angers me when bands blindly attach things like generic politics or christianity to themselves in order to seem deeper or more important. Like, if Pete Wentz started preaching about the war in Iraq, I would send him a death threat.

[punkpixie]

I thank God that He is around to help me out, because I am pretty much worthless without Him....


Statements like these are the reason im an atheist. You should value your life even if you don't believe there is a higher being.

[mrpostman]

Statements like these are the reason im an atheist. You should value your life even if you don't believe there is a higher being.

I have self worth and I have never been the kind of person to be suicidal or anything like that, I just know the kind of person I was before and the person I am now and see how God has helped me through. I understand how statements like the one I made about being worthless without God would make you feel the way you do, but really unless I wrote an even longer entry there is no way I had the time or space to explain to the absolute punk world my story.

[FrankMareno]

Glad to hear it, but just so you know this post was not inspired by NOFX, it was months of other things said so I thought that now with all the stupid NOFX/Underoath crap going on I would post some thoughts on Christianity and music....

it is about them they kick ass, i respect i guess the views on christianity but Fat Mike can say whatever the fuck he wants the same with the article being written on it, i hate christian bands

[Shoes]

god doesnt hate them, but he doesnt approve of it. i have gay ffriends, but i know they're going to hell.
Are you serious?

[Broken Parachute]

yes, I don't understand how some Christians will willingly ignore the parts of the bible that say you shouldn't shave or eat shellfish or wear clothing made of multiple blended fibers, but harp on homosexuality. it doesn't make any sense.

anyway, Christians have the same problem that communists have. People took their belief system, twisted it around and used it to serve an agenda and now people think it's bullshit without thinking of the merits of the entire system.

my only problem with Christianity and punk rock comes from this: Punk is rooted in anti-authority. The church can be a huge example of authority. My only question is that, do these Christian bands follow the edicts of their church/denomination without thinking about it? i know that there can be tons of of really anti-authoritarian sects of Christianity, I just wonder if these bands really represent that or if they actually do represent conservative fundamentalist Christianity, which doesn't have a place in punk. at least, in my opinion.
Once again, your opinions never fail to amaze me. Great post.

[Shoes]

I repeat myself, nowhere in the bible does it ever talk about two people of the same sex loving each other as if that's a sin.
Exactly, and nowhere in the Bible does Jesus himself directly say he condems homosexuality.

[Ilovepoprock]

Exactly, and nowhere in the Bible does Jesus himself directly say he condems homosexuality.

no God does not say that all homosexuals aer going to hell for beign homosexuality, that would contradict the entire message of the gospel. God doesn't hate homosexuals but he does describe acts of sodomy as abominations. Homosexuality most definitely is a sin.

[Shoes]

no God does not say that all homosexuals aer going to hell for beign homosexuality, that would contradict the entire message of the gospel. God doesn't hate homosexuals but he does describe acts of sodomy as abominations. Homosexuality most definitely is a sin.
Yes but nowhere does Jesus ever say it. Rather man says it, and man is flawed. Jesus is not, therefore if he doesn't condem it then I see no reason why it should be sin. And if you're talking about acts of sodomy does that exclude lesbians, or is it okay for girls?
It also says that if your neighbour works on the Sabbath then you should stone him. A few of my friends work on Sundays, should I stone them?

[queendependency]

I read this article once on homosexuality where the author pretty much just admitted that all we could do was love each other and study the Bible because it's very unclear on this topic..
http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god_article.php?id=7159

[mrpostman]

it is about them they kick ass, i respect i guess the views on christianity but Fat Mike can say whatever the fuck he wants the same with the article being written on it, i hate christian bands

I never said anything negative about fat mike, he can say whatever he wants. If you read my original posts I said I don't blame fat mike for saying the kinds of things he says because the Christians that are always on tv seem to give Christianity a bad name. I said in my orignial post that i get upset with those kinds of Christians way before I could even start getting upset with a band that hates the religion of Christianity. I can't blame Fat Mike or anybody else for that matter one bit....I think if you read the whole entry that I started this topic with you could see that is what I basically was saying. I guess you decided to ignore that and thought since I am a Christian I must be bashing on fat mike

[mrpostman]

I read this article once on homosexuality where the author pretty much just admitted that all we could do was love each other and study the Bible because it's very unclear on this topic..
http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god_article.php?id=7159

I love relevant magazine. Its great. I agree, we can have our opinions on homosexuality, but in the end it doesn't matter, just show everybody love like Jesus talked so much about when on earth and I think that this world would be a much better place, but its so hard for people to live that way. As I get older I am learning more and more to get better at this...I hope one day I can say I truely do show love to everybody, with God's help I think I will be able to....

[x togepi x]

no God does not say that all homosexuals aer going to hell for beign homosexuality, that would contradict the entire message of the gospel. God doesn't hate homosexuals but he does describe acts of sodomy as abominations. Homosexuality most definitely is a sin.

how do you define sodomy?

Once again, your opinions never fail to amaze me. Great post.

thanks.

[BreakerBreaker]

no God does not say that all homosexuals aer going to hell for beign homosexuality, that would contradict the entire message of the gospel. God doesn't hate homosexuals but he does describe acts of sodomy as abominations. Homosexuality most definitely is a sin.

So it's cool to like dudes, but you can't have sex with them? Sounds like a shit deal.

[BruisedxBroken]

So it's cool to like dudes, but you can't have sex with them? Sounds like a shit deal.

No, you can. Just know that once you do, your ticket to hell has already been issued.

[catchmealone]

No, you can. Just know that once you do, your ticket to hell has already been issued.
What the fuck?! That is VERY UNTRUE.
Never once in the bible does it say that same sex intercourse is an automatic ticket to hell.

Many believe that suicide is the only thing that is irreconcilleble(sp) in god's eyes, but I'm not even sure how I feel about that.

We are humans. We are not to judge. You can't sit there and say anyone is going to hell for any reasons because you do not know that person's relationship with God, and that's the most important thing.

[catchmealone]

Yes but nowhere does Jesus ever say it. Rather man says it, and man is flawed. Jesus is not, therefore if he doesn't condem it then I see no reason why it should be sin. And if you're talking about acts of sodomy does that exclude lesbians, or is it okay for girls?
It also says that if your neighbour works on the Sabbath then you should stone him. A few of my friends work on Sundays, should I stone them?
To be technical, Jesus never wrote one word of the bible. The bible was written front to back by something like 40 or 60 authors, the exact number I'm not true, over the course of 600+ years.

[Shoes]

No, you can. Just know that once you do, your ticket to hell has already been issued.
I like to kiss girls, am I going to Hell?
To be technical, Jesus never wrote one word of the bible. The bible was written front to back by something like 40 or 60 authors, the exact number I'm not true, over the course of 600+ years.
Oh yeah, I meant in his teachings he never says he condems homosexuality.

[shadowofmyself]

To be technical, Jesus never wrote one word of the bible. The bible was written front to back by something like 40 or 60 authors, the exact number I'm not true, over the course of 600+ years.


i've always wondered why people find it so hard to believe in that mormon dude and find it so easy to believe in the bible. could it be that 40 to 60 guys got together and wrote a perfectly good self-help book that people decided to worship? and could it be that in the past 600+ years that the bible has been around (with hundreds of translations) that somethings have been skewed?

[Ilovepoprock]

Yes but nowhere does Jesus ever say it. Rather man says it, and man is flawed. Jesus is not, therefore if he doesn't condem it then I see no reason why it should be sin. And if you're talking about acts of sodomy does that exclude lesbians, or is it okay for girls?
It also says that if your neighbour works on the Sabbath then you should stone him. A few of my friends work on Sundays, should I stone them?

NO, 'homosexuality is a sin' is never in red lettering, that's where faith in the Gods word despite wether or not God spoke it comes in. Besides even if it is documented in the bible as being said by Jesus, MAN still wrote it down.

The particular act of sodomy i was refering to excludes girls, they don't have penis's :).

I believe what you are referring to is a medophor in the bible that teaches that you should try your hardest not to let your friends sin, because death is better than sin. Not that anyoen who doesn't go to church on sunday should be killed. Furthermore, Sabath is not exclusively on sunday, sabath is any day of the week in which you take the day to pay mind to god and so forth.

My pastor works sunday, adn his sabath is on a friday. He doesn't take calls, he doesn't go to the office. stuff like that, he spends the day with god.

[Ilovepoprock]

how do you define sodomy?





hmmm, i couldn't give you an a fit definition really, but It's somewhere along the lines of any sexual intercourse that isn't vaginal or with a human. So, I believe the bible defines sodomy under, anal sex, sex with a goat, oral sex....and anything else your imagination can come up with.

i could be wrong.

[Ilovepoprock]

So it's cool to like dudes, but you can't have sex with them? Sounds like a shit deal.

No it's not cool to like dudes. Harmartiology can get confusing as all get out, but basically it's sin to have homosecual desires, but with God you can over come the sinful ACT of say, sodomy and so you are righteous in God. I really don't wanna get into it, it's confusing as hell...

[x togepi x]

hmmm, i couldn't give you an a fit definition really, but It's somewhere along the lines of any sexual intercourse that isn't vaginal or with a human. So, I believe the bible defines sodomy under, anal sex, sex with a goat, oral sex....and anything else your imagination can come up with.

i could be wrong.

okay, so lots of christians commit sodomy. even within marriage. why condemn to guys for having sex but not a guy getting a blow job from a girl?

[Ilovepoprock]

okay, so lots of christians commit sodomy. even within marriage. why condemn to guys for having sex but not a guy getting a blow job from a girl?

you shouldn't and i'd like to point out that im not condemming anyone. Nor is god he forgives any sin by person. married couples performing heterosexual sodomy will never be different than two dudes.

[catchmealone]

you shouldn't and i'd like to point out that im not condemming anyone. Nor is god he forgives any sin by person. married couples performing heterosexual sodomy will never be different than two dudes.
yea, sodomy is a sin. homosexuality is a sin. a sin is a sin is a sin is a sin is a......

It's human's who say these horrible things about God hating homosexuals

[jaredx54x]

Putas!

[vjonnyv]

Anyone know where I can see the NOFX video that was mentioned earlier in the post?

[Ilovepoprock]

yea, sodomy is a sin. homosexuality is a sin. a sin is a sin is a sin is a sin is a......

It's human's who say these horrible things about God hating homosexuals

i may be way off base, but are you implying I am saying God hates homosexuals?

[Shoes]

NO, 'homosexuality is a sin' is never in red lettering, that's where faith in the Gods word despite wether or not God spoke it comes in. Besides even if it is documented in the bible as being said by Jesus, MAN still wrote it down.

The particular act of sodomy i was refering to excludes girls, they don't have penis's :)..
Haha you know what I meant:p
I believe what you are referring to is a medophor in the bible that teaches that you should try your hardest not to let your friends sin, because death is better than sin. Not that anyoen who doesn't go to church on sunday should be killed. Furthermore, Sabath is not exclusively on sunday, sabath is any day of the week in which you take the day to pay mind to god and so forth.

My pastor works sunday, adn his sabath is on a friday. He doesn't take calls, he doesn't go to the office. stuff like that, he spends the day with god.
Nah, it actually says that if your neighbour works on the Sabbath you can stone him. I don't think that sounds much like a metaphor or a helpful "hey help your friends from sinning". It seems pretty straight forward to me.

[catchmealone]

i may be way off base, but are you implying I am saying God hates homosexuals?
not at all, i was agreeing with you

[Ilovepoprock]

Haha you know what I meant:p

Nah, it actually says that if your neighbour works on the Sabbath you can stone him. I don't think that sounds much like a metaphor or a helpful "hey help your friends from sinning". It seems pretty straight forward to me.

give me the refrence.

[Ilovepoprock]

not at all, i was agreeing with you

haha, good.

[Shoes]

give me the refrence.
I'll find it today.

[HeyCoffeeEyes]

I don't know what this thread was originally about, but this is a funny letter someone sent to Dr. Laura, that addresses the sutff about the Sabbath, us Sodomites, and all that other bs in Judaic law.


Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

[HeyCoffeeEyes]

give me the refrence.

Exodus 35:2.

Six days shall work (http://www.godrules.net/library/topics/topic2069.htm) be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath (http://www.godrules.net/library/topics/topic1623.htm) of rest (http://www.godrules.net/library/topics/topic1574.htm) to the LORD: whosoever doeth work (http://www.godrules.net/library/topics/topic2069.htm) therein shall be put to death (http://www.godrules.net/library/topics/topic502.htm).

[mrpostman]

the old law is no longer in effect because jesus came and took all of that away with his death and resurection

[dbarker02]

silly christians

[HeyCoffeeEyes]

silly christians

Replicated in the Form of a Quotation In Recognition of Verity

Or just plain old QFA.

R

[x togepi x]

the old law is no longer in effect because jesus came and took all of that away with his death and resurection


yes, but leviticus is what most conservative christians quote when they condemn homosexuality. the point that people misuse the bible still stands.

[mrpostman]

yes, but leviticus is what most conservative christians quote when they condemn homosexuality. the point that people misuse the bible still stands.

yeah, i know where people are coming from, i was just trying to state the facts

[Ilovepoprock]

Exodus 35:2.

in no place does it state that it must be a sunday only that a sabath is taken only that it must be one out of seven days. Nor does it say that it is any mans right to kill him.

[Shoes]

Exodus 35:2.
Haha well you beat me to it.

[HeyCoffeeEyes]

in no place does it state that it must be a sunday only that a sabath is taken only that it must be one out of seven days. Nor does it say that it is any mans right to kill him.


Right but it does say the powers that be - legal authority - should put him to death. Who else is going to dit If God were just going to take care of it himself he wouldnt need to write it in law. So clearly its a perscription meant for people to carry out by whatever power they have established. Just face it, your holy bible advocates murder. Kind of like when God committed genocide in Sodom and Gomorrah. No really, its cool. Religion of peace.

[Ilovepoprock]

Right but it does say the powers that be - legal authority - should put him to death. Who else is going to dit If God were just going to take care of it himself he wouldnt need to write it in law. So clearly its a perscription meant for people to carry out by whatever power they have established. Just face it, your holy bible advocates murder. Kind of like when God committed genocide in Sodom and Gomorrah. No really, its cool. Religion of peace.

if you know very much about the bible then you will know that no verse can be understood without it's context. That being said the laws in leviticus and exodus are laws pertaining to ancient israel to set them above the rest to make them stand out against the rest of the world (not to mention make them wealthier and healthier). So yes God commanded the killing of people who dont perform a sabath, in israel, at that time. YOU GOT ME!! My life is a lie, God wants everyone to die.

no.

My faith and God is based on love and forgiveness.

[spencersface]

Exodus 35:2.

lol

[Shoes]

Right but it does say the powers that be - legal authority - should put him to death. Who else is going to dit If God were just going to take care of it himself he wouldnt need to write it in law. So clearly its a perscription meant for people to carry out by whatever power they have established. Just face it, your holy bible advocates murder. Kind of like when God committed genocide in Sodom and Gomorrah. No really, its cool. Religion of peace.
I do aggree with you about the other stuff you said and quoted, but Christianity is a religion based on peace. But a lot of what is said in the bible by men I don't listen to. I take more notice of the teachings of Jesus himself.
Though, you're completely right about the other Sodomite and Sabbath stuff.