Why Hip Hop is Dead

[eriatarka24]

So true, and so hilarious
KIV0ZlkJMTw

[Thesleepingwell]

Haha... he's got a great argument!

Hip Hop needs go back to old skool.
He's right.

[anthonydarko]

:yawn:

[ninthandash]

I was thinking something more like this:
http://www.mefeedia.com/watch/24187359

[HometownHero]

So true, and so hilarious
KIV0ZlkJMTw

So wrong and completely stupid

Haha... he's got a great argument!

Hip Hop needs go back to old skool.
He's right.
If by great argument you mean weak argument with absolutely no merit or use of intelligence then you are correct. What's old "skool" to you bro? Moron

[HometownHero]

<object width="400" height="300"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=6849933&amp;serve r=vimeo.com&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_bylin e=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=&amp;fullscre en=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=6849933&amp;serve r=vimeo.com&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_bylin e=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=&amp;fullscre en=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="300"></embed></object><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/6849933">Tom O C - Entrepreneur</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user2365896">King Dong</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

Video fail

[SophGod]

He's not talking about hip hop, he's talking about radio rap. Dude's an idiot.

[Thesleepingwell]

So wrong and completely stupid


If by great argument you mean weak argument with absolutely no merit or use of intelligence then you are correct. What's old "skool" to you bro? Moron

Public Enemy, Cypress Hill and NWA
None of this new shit comes close. And Cypress Hill still put out decent material.
Getting to see these guys at Leeds Festival.

Hey look everyone has got opinions.
We don't need to throw insults over it.

[ninthandash]

Video fail


Tom OC claimed a copyright violation on my video so I had to hurry up and change it lol.

[HometownHero]

Public Enemy, Cypress Hill and NWA
None of this new shit comes close. And Cypress Hill still put out decent material.
Getting to see these guys at Leeds Festival.

Hey look everyone has got opinions.
We don't need to throw insults over it.

:yawn:

[Scrandon]

"If you ain't got no money take yo broke ass home"

that was so pathetic

[CaryGrant]

Albums out in the past 3 years:
Mos Def - The Ecstatic
One Be Lo - The R.E.B.I.R.T.H.
Talib Kweli - Eardrum
Sage Francis - Human the Death Can Dance
Dead Prez - Information Age
Living Legends - The Gathering

But, sure!

[Smeee]

I dig.

[HometownHero]

Albums out in the past 3 years:
Mos Def - The Ecstatic
One Be Lo - The R.E.B.I.R.T.H.
Talib Kweli - Eardrum
Sage Francis - Human the Death Can Dance
Dead Prez - Information Age
Living Legends - The Gathering

But, sure!

This is barely even scratching the surface of the awesome hip hop records that have been released. But point made perfectly

[Star Slight]

So completely wrong. His whole stealing lyrics part is just sampling? And "if you aint got no money take you broke ass home" is a saying, thats why they all say it. "Oh I think they like me" is just referencing the first song, its clever, its like an allusion.

Plus, as someone said, he's talking about radio rap, not hip hop.

[beersbeers]

Hip hop wont go away. You have too many people obsessed with the things they love (objects, not people or ideals). Music is an output of how society is today. Punk was created to try to tear down the foundations and old school thinking of status quo. Disco was popular in the same era punk started and it was about having fun and living life. If you haven't noticed trends their are usually two polar opposites in music that come around in the same era's, one becoming social commentary and one more about having fun. if you hate it don't listen to it.

[summer skin]

if anything hip hop is thriving right now with the internet and mixtapes. people are getting discovered that would have never had a shot before.

[jeremyc]

Hip hop wont go away. You have too many people obsessed with the things they love (objects, not people or ideals). Music is an output of how society is today. Punk was created to try to tear down the foundations and old school thinking of status quo. Disco was popular in the same era punk started and it was about having fun and living life. If you haven't noticed trends their are usually two polar opposites in music that come around in the same era's, one becoming social commentary and one more about having fun. if you hate it don't listen to it.

Great point.

[TheMisanthrope]

he is right overall....new rap sucks

[Star Slight]

he is right overall....new rap sucks

like?

[RonStoppable]

There's a lot of awesome rap and hip hop being released right now. It's not on the radio, where apparently this guy gets all of his music from.

A trend that annoys me a lot more than radio rap/hip hop is YouTube tools making awful videos ranting about shit.

[Star Slight]

Y2fPw3rA6i4
One example of how Hip hop isn't dead.

[zachff]

Hip hop is dead 'cause I killed it

[ETGsynth]

There's a lot of awesome rap and hip hop being released right now. It's not on the radio, where apparently this guy gets all of his music from.

A trend that annoys me a lot more than radio rap/hip hop is YouTube tools making awful videos ranting about shit.

Very true.

[barkingincision]

apparently he doesn't know about Galapagos 4
or the Chef
for that matter

[Theseventhson]

:yawn:
I'm going to agree with this.

[TheMisanthrope]

like?

any rap on the radio and most of the people he quoted is bad.

there are good rappers out right now but people dont know of them or they are under recognized.

wu tang clan is good
when dr dre drops detox i bet that will be good
im confident there are good underground rappers that i have not listened to

but the rap everybody hears is not good and in a few years will be gone and nobody will care

[Hagysaurus Rex]

all hip hop =/= top 40 rap hits.

[Cameronisonfire]

You could listen to rock on the radio and make a few generalizations about that genre of music as well. The guy just needs to stop listening to radio rap. Stupid video.

[beersbeers]

I dont think he's making generalizations, it's obvious he is targeting the certain genre. the "pop" rap if you will or crunk...i don't know what to call it. THe music is pathetic. 4 nignogs jumping around screaming random ass shit, while someone hits like 4 different notes the entire time is just embarrassing. They know they have a successful market for the shit, and by making some dumb phrase like the whole "superman dat ho" is catches on to bros and dumb party chicks all over the country. They're actually pretty smart taking advantage of intellectually depraved young adults

[SophGod]

Do I have to say it again? He's talking about Radio Rap, and not Hip-Hop. He says the word hip-hop several times in his video. He's clearly an idiot.

[CaryGrant]

I dont think he's making generalizations, it's obvious he is targeting the certain genre. the "pop" rap if you will or crunk...i don't know what to call it. THe music is pathetic. 4 nignogs jumping around screaming random ass shit, while someone hits like 4 different notes the entire time is just embarrassing. They know they have a successful market for the shit, and by making some dumb phrase like the whole "superman dat ho" is catches on to bros and dumb party chicks all over the country. They're actually pretty smart taking advantage of intellectually depraved young adults

Okay, sure, but you're obviously looking at the genre through the lens of someone who's only aware of the Top 40 stuff. If someone told you alternative rock was dead because they saw a couple of Creed and Nickelback videos, or that there is no good punk/hardcore because their friend's sister really likes Good Charlotte, you'd probably have a very different response because those are genres you're familiar with. This guy is making generalities because that's obviously the extent of his scope. To someone who has actually immersed themselves in the culture enough to understand that there's Souljaboy and then there's Common, like there's Limp Bizkit and then there's Isis, it takes on the appearance of a really uneducated argument resulting from someone critiquing a whole movement based on the limited exposure they've had to it--and the worst of it at that, because in this industry the shit always rises to the top.

EDIT: Also, nignogs? Holy shit, man. Educate yourself. Welcome to the millennium.

[roughroads]

HAozIJ5reRQ
/obligatory

[Theseventhson]

I dont think he's making generalizations, it's obvious he is targeting the certain genre. the "pop" rap if you will or crunk...i don't know what to call it. THe music is pathetic. 4 nignogs jumping around screaming random ass shit, while someone hits like 4 different notes the entire time is just embarrassing. They know they have a successful market for the shit, and by making some dumb phrase like the whole "superman dat ho" is catches on to bros and dumb party chicks all over the country. They're actually pretty smart taking advantage of intellectually depraved young adults

Have you ever actually listened to rap or hip hop? I mean, wow.

[beersbeers]

If you actually read what I said i was commenting on top 40 rap and the music on the radio, not hip-hop in general. I do listen to a lot of underground rap, you both who commented on what I said should pay a tad more attention to phrasing

[vivatoto56]

For me, hip hop died with Tupac.

Just a personal opinion though.

[briewer]

In terms of what is more wrong/annoying:

his voice > his claims about hip hop

[Indoor Living]

I've been thinking the exact opposite in the last year or two. I've discovered more talented rappers and emcees that I actually enjoy recently then when I was an 8th grader or a freshman trying to 'force' myself to like rap because all my classmates did.

[CaryGrant]

I've been thinking the exact opposite in the last year or two. I've discovered more talented rappers and emcees that I actually enjoy recently then when I was an 8th grader or a freshman trying to 'force' myself to like rap because all my classmates did.

Exactly--it's all about getting yourself deep enough into the culture to actually explore and find what you like. How long do you think it would take someone raised on hip hop to find hardcore/screamo bands with substance that they enjoy?

[eriatarka24]

Either way, he's right about the specific ones that he's referring to...Especially with Flo Rida and his shitty "Blue" and "You Spin Me Round" rip offs. Even if it's not truly 'hip hop,' although he does say R&B just as many times as he says hip hop in that video.


But I'm not saying I don't know of any other hip hop, or rather, REAL HIP HOP... Sorry if it came across that way with that one sentence post, for the person who said "so wrong and so completely stupid." Aron (the guy who made the video) still has a point. It may really be radio rap as sophos34 put it, but it is still terrible now.

Anyway.

[jwicklun]

hip hop is still alive, you just will not find it on the radio.

[IntoTheSun]

In terms of what is more wrong/annoying:

his voice > his claims about hip hop

Oh my god, I love how agitated he gets at around 4:20 hahaha. He reminds me of those Asian kids at my school who spend way too much time playing video games and making bad racist jokes.

[bladerdude360]

Not hilarious at all.

[Mochem]

This could be said about basically every genre of music if all you listen to is the mainstream stuff that's played on the radio. Three Days Grace, Breaking Benjamin, Alter Bridge, Theory of a Dead Man, Shinedown, Nickelback, Daughtry, etc. all sound the same except for their varying degrees of heaviness. And they all suck. Old mainstream music is better in pretty much every genre when compared to this generation of mainstream and radio music.

It's been obvious for a while now.

http://likethedew.com/img/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

[Twizzla]

Jesus any point he is trying to make is lost to the fact he himself makes me want to fucking kill myself.

[eriatarka24]

Not hilarious at all.
that's nice

[ThisIsNotDan]

all hip hop =/= top 40 rap hits.

yes. this is what people like him don't get. and yeah it's beating a dead horse

[Hagysaurus Rex]

This could be said about basically every genre of music if all you listen to is the mainstream stuff that's played on the radio. Three Days Grace, Breaking Benjamin, Alter Bridge, Theory of a Dead Man, Shinedown, Nickelback, Daughtry, etc. all sound the same except for their varying degrees of heaviness. And they all suck. Old mainstream music is better in pretty much every genre when compared to this generation of mainstream and radio music.

It's been obvious for a while now.

http://likethedew.com/img/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

I wonder how much of that is true and how much of that is nostalgia and the fact that we, generally speaking, are more critical of new bands/acts the older we get.

Not trying to pick a fight. I just know that I liked a lot of mainstream stuff when I was younger (more impressionable, etc) that I probably wouldn't take much notice of if it came out now.

Great .gif, btw.

[Indoor Living]

Exactly--it's all about getting yourself deep enough into the culture to actually explore and find what you like. How long do you think it would take someone raised on hip hop to find hardcore/screamo bands with substance that they enjoy?
It takes one group, at least, that's what it did for me. I'm speaking from a pop-punk view, but for the sake of argument, I'll continue. I grew up, as a ton of little kids did, loving radio shit, pop stuff, no substance for the most part, etc. Then I checked out "Ocean Avenue" by Yellowcard at my local library. From then on, it just strung me along to different bands in the genre, Starting Line, NFG, Say Anything, Brand New, and so on and so forth. Finding a single band in a new genre is, to me, how you go about starting to change your tastes in music. Hopefully this makes some sense. It's how I did it.

[ipunchcouches]

This is so true. I loved it

[asthenia*]

Y2fPw3rA6i4
One example of how Hip hop isn't dead.

i don't agree with the OP video at all but this is a pretty weak example of hip hop being alive.

you should check out P.O.S or Shad or something actually artistic

[wuduprod]

ooooh.... a "music on the radio is bad" thread. how original. almost as original as the kids who like to talk about "real hip-hop" because they've listen to wu-tang and/or dead prez a few times.

[MADSTA]

Those five things could be said about the popular sect of any genre.

[Star Slight]

i don't agree with the OP video at all but this is a pretty weak example of hip hop being alive.

you should check out P.O.S or Shad or something actually artistic

Reks is an incredibly talented artist, Grey Hairs is almost perfect. I just happened to pick him because i was listening to that song at the time.
I'm sick of people acting like P.O.S is the only good rapper out there now. Sure, hes great, but there are rappers on the same level or greater out there as well.

[kearn1tm]

If I were a sheep, I'd agree. Seeing as how I'm not (ish), and there's a deluge of phenomenal hip hop acts, I don't agree.

[kearn1tm]

This could be said about basically every genre of music if all you listen to is the mainstream stuff that's played on the radio. Three Days Grace, Breaking Benjamin, Alter Bridge, Theory of a Dead Man, Shinedown, Nickelback, Daughtry, etc. all sound the same except for their varying degrees of heaviness. And they all suck. Old mainstream music is better in pretty much every genre when compared to this generation of mainstream and radio music.

It's been obvious for a while now.

http://likethedew.com/img/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

For every awesome mainstream act you're nostalgically horny for because tons of people told you that they're classics, there's an equal number of shitty mainstream acts from the same period.

"Music was so much better off in [period]" statements are hilarious.

[SophGod]

For every awesome mainstream act you're nostalgically horny for because tons of people told you that they're classics, there's an equal number of shitty mainstream acts from the same period.

"Music was so much better off in [period]" statements are hilarious.

Oh god, If I had a dollar for every time someone has said the scene was so much better back in the early 2000's I'd have enough money to buy a CD from every band in the scene from the early 2000's.

[ohmessylife]

If I were a sheep, I'd agree. Seeing as how I'm not, and there's a deluge of phenomenal hip hop acts, I don't agree.


I agree with you, there certainly is a good deal of new artists/release that are very enjoyable. Everyone who thinks hip hop is a dead or dying genre needs to dig a little deeper, and enlighten themselves.

[Theseventhson]

Oh god, If I had a dollar for every time someone has said the scene was so much better back in the early 2000's I'd have enough money to buy a CD from every band in the scene from the early 2000's.

Seriously. Like, no shit you thought the scene was better when you were 14 because when you're 14, you like a lot of shit.

[SophGod]

Seriously. Like, no shit you thought the scene was better when you were 14 because when you're 14, you like a lot of shit.
The only thing that can prove the scene from back then is better than the scene now is that Thursday emerged during that time period.


/fanboy.
But as I said in another thread, there are some good new bands in the scene these days, just have to wade through the shit. And there are still bands from the earlier scene putting out music. So that argument is as stupid as the hip hop argument.

[eriatarka24]

Yeah I agree with what he is saying in that video (because a lot of what he said is true) but I do not personally think that hip hop entirely sucks and that it is "dead", which is a little harsh to say. I titled the the thread the way I did because that's the title of the video, really.


(I still thought it was really funny to watch, but for those who don't, eh, your sense of humor is different, so what.)

[kearn1tm]

All of his reasons for hip hop being dead or somehow reduced in quality then whatever arbitrary period he'd like to hold on to are contrived. "Oh man, they jack beats and lyrics and it's all about hedonistic bullsiht." Stop listening to bad hip hop. The alternatives alternatives are plentiful. Yeah, If I listened to four horrendous mainstream hip hop acts and knew nothing about the breadth of the genre, I'd say the same thing. Seriously, any of you who think hip hop is in dire need of a resurgence aren't paying attention to hip hop.

[Mikey Paine]

:hitself:

[yayitsjoe]

MY4kFSuMvKM

hip hop is never gonna die if this man is alive.

[IntoTheSun]

So many terrible comments on that youtube page. This is what one guy responded to mine with:
no, he's pretty spot on. really the only rap artists i know that don't do what this guy said is eminem and some of hollywood undead songs

...Hollywood Undead?

[eriatarka24]

So many terrible comments on that youtube page. This is what one guy responded to mine with:


...Hollywood Undead?

:-|

[tfar06]

hip hop is dead because they arent fighting for their rights anymore. its all smoke weed, look at hoes and ice/ bling/ cars/ clothes. there you have it in a nut shell. some artists make hip hop but thats not projected to the fore front of the scene, as it was in the 80s and 90s (in some ways).

[tfar06]

All of his reasons for hip hop being dead or somehow reduced in quality then whatever arbitrary period he'd like to hold on to are contrived. "Oh man, they jack beats and lyrics and it's all about hedonistic bullsiht." Stop listening to bad hip hop. The alternatives alternatives are plentiful. Yeah, If I listened to four horrendous mainstream hip hop acts and knew nothing about the breadth of the genre, I'd say the same thing. Seriously, any of you who think hip hop is in dire need of a resurgence aren't paying attention to hip hop.
right.

[briewer]

hip hop is dead because they arent fighting for their rights anymore. its all smoke weed, look at hoes and ice/ bling/ cars/ clothes. there you have it in a nut shell. some artists make hip hop but thats not projected to the fore front of the scene, as it was in the 80s and 90s (in some ways).
Whenever you think you can break down an entire genre into "it's all x and y", you can guess you're probably dead wrong about your assumptions about said genre.

[kearn1tm]

]hip hop is dead because they arent fighting for their rights anymore. its all smoke weed, look at hoes and ice/ bling/ cars/ clothes. [/B]there you have it in a nut shell. some artists make hip hop but thats not projected to the fore front of the scene, as it was in the 80s and 90s (in some ways).

Do you even listen to hip hop?

[briewer]

Do you even listen to hip hop?
Have you heard that new Wu-Tang album? It's all smoke weed, look at hoes and ice/ bling/ cars/ clothes.

[kearn1tm]

Have you heard that new Wu-Tang album? It's all smoke weed, look at hoes and ice/ bling/ cars/ clothes.

Wu-Massacre? No, but the covers are rad (and penciled by Chris Bachalo who is a rad comic artist and I'm ruining your joke but you'll love me anyway).

[briewer]

Wu-Massacre? No, but the covers are rad (and penciled by Chris Bachalo who is a rad comic artist and I'm ruining your joke but you'll love me anyway).
I posted it at the SOTS forum, if you're interested (love you anyway=duh).

[tfar06]

Do you even listen to hip hop?
yes. but hip hop isnt mainstream. i liten to nujabes (rip), cyne, blu, grassroots, panacea, etc. i was just speaking on mainstream terms. regarding the wu tang comment, wu tang hasnt been popular in 12 yrs.

[showmethefever]

lol at the guy who said nignogs.

[briewer]

yes. but hip hop isnt mainstream. i liten to nujabes (rip), cyne, blu, grassroots, panacea, etc. i was just speaking on mainstream terms.
Okay...? You could say that everything mainstream is "all smoke weed, look at hoes and ice/ bling/ cars/ clothes". It's packaged for the lowest common denominator and the baseness of mainstream hip hop, mainstream rock, mainstream whatever speaks to that. Question is, who gives a flying fuck about what's happening in the mainstream, and why would the shoddiness of the mainstream product mean the death of the entire genre? Weezer's latest album sucked really hard, but nobody's calling this the death of power pop. Then why should a few unlistenable singles from Jay Sean and Justin Bieber mean the entire genre of hip hop is dead?

regarding the wu tang comment, wu tang hasnt been popular in 12 yrs.
OBFCL2 was one of the best reviewed albums from last year, bro. And again, what does their popularity have to do with anything?

[asthenia*]

Reks is an incredibly talented artist, Grey Hairs is almost perfect. I just happened to pick him because i was listening to that song at the time.
I'm sick of people acting like P.O.S is the only good rapper out there now. Sure, hes great, but there are rappers on the same level or greater out there as well.

im not the world biggest hip hop fan, sue me. but that reks jam sounds like a kanye rip off, jus saying. and i like how you ignored my other recommendation. way to approach this with an open mind

[briewer]

^wat.

[kearn1tm]

I posted it at the SOTS forum, if you're interested (love you anyway=duh).

Yes! Love you back, Bri-Bri.

yes. but hip hop isnt mainstream. i liten to nujabes (rip), cyne, blu, grassroots, panacea, etc. i was just speaking on mainstream terms. regarding the wu tang comment, wu tang hasnt been popular in 12 yrs.

I think there's a romanticized vision of mainstream music ingrained in the heads of many in this thread. What was mainstream hip hop of the '90s like? When Kanye has an existential crisis in Can't Tell Me Nothing, how is that any less engaging then when Biggie's prophesizing his own death or 2-Pac's perpetuating the absurdity of an artistic division that culminated in gangstyle attacks or Dre's making damn sure we we all know he's still "D-R-E" by telling us how fucked up he gets or Snoop Dog asserts his love of ganja and his affinity for violence or Bone Thugs and Harmony compose yet another banal "see you when you die" hit?

You could point to Company Flow or De La Soul or Haiku D'etat or Black Star or The Coup or Common who all released socially-conscious albums in the '90s, but they were all released with either little fanfare/promotion/small labels or were marketed inappropriately/ineffectively and never became the sales juggernauts of acts like the above mentioned. And really, if we're commenting on how contrived and ubiquitous the themes of hip hop lyrics are, isn't social oppression/racial inequality been done ad nauseum. That isn't to say that's a bad thing, as it's still an unfortunately large facet of US (among so many other countries) living and should be discussed in art, with as many distinctive voices as possible, but if originality of theme is called into question, then really, what's the complaint? And isn't the excess and trials of "young money" and the most unlikely of people (IE - a subjugated race finding social mobility in art) getting cash a relevant subject? Why is that any more trite and less interesting than any other faux-relateable subject matter of any other genre?

And speaking of originality/freshness, I'm not sure if Nujabes is a good example. He's simply a hybrid of pastiche past; melding 8-bit sound with modal/post-bop Jazz and breakbeat, he's not (or wasn't) saying anything new in the expression of mixing these sounds and other artists have made downtempo sounding hip hop out of similar influences. That isn't the point. Something doesn't have to be novel to be quality.

In the '90s, we had albums like Freestyle Fellowship's Innercity Griots, Black Star's Mos & Talib are Black Star, De La's 3 Feet and Rising, Haiku D'etat's s/t, Wu's explosion (pretty damn mainstream), Jedi Mind Tricks' The Psycho-Social..., GZA's Liquid Swords, Common's Like Water for Chocolate, Company Flow's Funcrusher Plus, The Fugees' The Score, Nas' Illmatic, Main Source's Breaking Atoms and so on and so forth.

Some of those were mainstream, some were not. We also had shitty Cyprus Hill albums, uninspired novelty jams like I Wish I Were a Little Bit Taller by Skeelo and Informer by Snow, Snoop Dog becoming a parody of hip hop within the decade (while releasing some brilliant stuff), etc. There's always been contrvied mainstream shit with good mainstream shit and many of them share the aesthetic properties of their genre, just like all the fantastic albums I could rattle off from the last decade and all the shitty ones from the genre.

NAME DROPPING = FUN

[The Raine]

To everyone saying "what an idiot, there's lots of good hip hop/r&b", I think it's extremely clear he's only targeting the Top 40 brand. Just because he doesn't say "mainstream" in front of every mention of "hip hop", it doesn't mean you have to rush to the defense of your beloved underground artists. And as trite and obvious as his points may be in relation to Top 40 pop rap, it doesn't make (most of) them any less true.

[caveBEAR]

I think there's a romanticized vision of mainstream music ingrained in the heads of many in this thread. What was mainstream hip hop of the '90s like? When Kanye has an existential crisis in Can't Tell Me Nothing, how is that any less engaging then when Biggie's prophesizing his own death or 2-Pac's perpetuating the absurdity of an artistic division that culminated in gangstyle attacks or Dre's making damn sure we we all know he's still "D-R-E" by telling us how fucked up he gets or Snoop Dog asserts his love of ganja and his affinity for violence or Bone Thugs and Harmony compose yet another banal "see you when you die" hit?

You could point to Company Flow or De La Soul or Haiku D'etat or Black Star or The Coup or Common who all released socially-conscious albums in the '90s, but they were all released with either little fanfare/promotion/small labels or were marketed inappropriately/ineffectively and never became the sales juggernauts of acts like the above mentioned. And really, if we're commenting on how contrived and ubiquitous the themes of hip hop lyrics are, isn't social oppression/racial inequality been done ad nauseum. That isn't to say that's a bad thing, as it's still an unfortunately large facet of US (among so many other countries) living and should be discussed in art, with as many distinctive voices as possible, but if originality of theme is called into question, then really, what's the complaint.

And speaking of originality/freshness, I'm not sure if Nujabes is a good example. He's simply a hybrid of pastiche past; melding 8-bit sound with modal/post-bop Jazz and breakbeat, he's not (or wasn't) saying anything new in the expression of mixing these sounds and other artists have made downtempo sounding hip hop out of similar influences. That isn't the point. Something doesn't have to be novel to be quality.

In the '90s, we had albums like Freestyle Fellowship's Innercity Griots, Black Star's Mos & Talib are Black Star, De La's 3 Feet and Rising, Haiku D'etat's s/t, Wu's explosion (pretty damn mainstream), Jedi Mind Tricks' The Psycho-Social..., GZA's Liquid Swords, Common's Like Water for Chocolate, Company Flow's Funcrusher Plus, The Fugees' The Score, Nas' Illmatic, Main Source's Breaking Atoms and so on and so forth.

Some of those were mainstream, some were not. We also had shitty Cyprus Hill albums, uninspired novelty jams like I Wish I Were a Little Bit Taller by Skeelo and Informer by Snow, Snoop Dog becoming a parody of hip hop within the decade (while releasing some brilliant stuff), etc. There's always been contrvied mainstream shit with good mainstream shit and many of them share the aesthetic properties of their genre, just like all the fantastic albums I could rattle off from the last decade and all the shitty ones from the genre.

:appl:

[briewer]

To everyone saying "what an idiot, there's lots of good hip hop/r&b", I think it's extremely clear he's only targeting the Top 40 brand. Just because he doesn't say "mainstream" in front of every mention of "hip hop", it doesn't mean you have to rush to the defense of your beloved underground artists. And as trite and obvious as his points may be in relation to Top 40 pop rap, it doesn't make (most of) them any less true.
Okay? So the mainstream sucks, bfd. Is his next video going to be about how water is wet?

[Theseventhson]

To everyone saying "what an idiot, there's lots of good hip hop/r&b", I think it's extremely clear he's only targeting the Top 40 brand. Just because he doesn't say "mainstream" in front of every mention of "hip hop", it doesn't mean you have to rush to the defense of your beloved underground artists. And as trite and obvious as his points may be in relation to Top 40 pop rap, it doesn't make (most of) them any less true.

Then why make a video? Obviously the mainstream sucks, it's rhetorical to point it out.

[kearn1tm]

To everyone saying "what an idiot, there's lots of good hip hop/r&b", I think it's extremely clear he's only targeting the Top 40 brand.

He's claiming it sucks now and was great back in the day (whatever "the day" is) by claiming the subject matter and means of beat production was much more original. He's wrong. Some sheep hears "oh man, hip hop sucks now 'cause it's all bitches and hoes" and makes a shitty video pandering to those who think that without actually analyzing the subject. Mainstream hip hop resembles mainstream hip hop now. There was good mainstream hip hop in the '90s and there was good mainstream hip hop in the last decade. There was an endless sea of shit as it pertains to '90s hip hop, just as there was in the '00s.

[Mochem]

For every awesome mainstream act you're nostalgically horny for because tons of people told you that they're classics, there's an equal number of shitty mainstream acts from the same period.

"Music was so much better off in [period]" statements are hilarious.
When you think of what mainstream music the 50's, 60's, and 70's are known for and then compare it to what the 2000's are known for, you can't seriously argue that the only reason the older generation seems better is because I'm "nostalgically horny" for it.

I'm not saying music was better off back then. I am saying that popular music back then was better off. There are so many great bands around now, they're just not popular.

[kearn1tm]

I am saying that popular music back then was better off.

For every band you're in love with, there was equally shitty bands/acts that littered mainstream radio in every decade you can point to.

There's quite a few good mainstream acts and an unending deluge of bad ones, just as there has been for quite some time.

[Star Slight]

im not the world biggest hip hop fan, sue me. but that reks jam sounds like a kanye rip off, jus saying. and i like how you ignored my other recommendation. way to approach this with an open mind


I didn't ignore it, Slade is a decent rapper. I'm just annoyed at people writing off a lot of talented hip hop artists because AP didn't give them the approval stamp. So many people namedrop P.O.S on this site, its ridiculous. You said it yourself, you're not the biggest hip hop fan, so why would you try to point out that the link I posted of a talented rapper isn't actually "artistic"? And then tell me that I'm the one who doesn't have an open mind about it
And a Kanye rip off?...come on

[asthenia*]

I didn't ignore it, Slade is a decent rapper. I'm just annoyed at people writing off a lot of talented hip hop artists because AP didn't give them the approval stamp. So many people namedrop P.O.S on this site, its ridiculous. You said it yourself, you're not the biggest hip hop fan, so why would you try to point out that the link I posted of a talented rapper isn't actually "artistic"? And then tell me that I'm the one who doesn't have an open mind about it
And a Kanye rip off?...come on

slade? who's slade? i said you should check out Shad. And I just said P.O.S cause I was going off the top of my head. I'm not the biggest hip hop fan but I still have a good 10-12 artists I really like. And it's just my opinion I guess but that song wasn't great and yeah, musically it was a rip off of Kanye circa 2004 what with that whole gerbal voice thing it's got going on (I don't really know what people refer to that technique as). I wasn't referring to his rapping.

[Star Slight]

slade? who's slade? i said you should check out Shad. And I just said P.O.S cause I was going off the top of my head. I'm not the biggest hip hop fan but I still have a good 10-12 artists I really like. And it's just my opinion I guess but that song wasn't great and yeah, musically it was a rip off of Kanye circa 2004 what with that whole gerbal voice thing it's got going on (I don't really know what people refer to that technique as). I wasn't referring to his rapping.

Whoops, Shad*.
And you mean the sampling? Like what the majority of rappers do in their songs?

[ninthandash]

When you think of what mainstream music the 50's, 60's, and 70's are known for and then compare it to what the 2000's are known for, you can't seriously argue that the only reason the older generation seems better is because I'm "nostalgically horny" for it.

I'm not saying music was better off back then. I am saying that popular music back then was better off. There are so many great bands around now, they're just not popular.

I agree with this post.

When you say 60s rock, you think of the legends, like Zep.
When you say 90s rock, you think of butt rock like Creed.

[GreenDayStinks!]

Hip Hop is dead like Miles Davis played piano

[asthenia*]

Whoops, Shad*.
And you mean the sampling? Like what the majority of rappers do in their songs?

well yeah sampling but basically the expedited version that kanye made famous.

[Star Slight]

well yeah sampling but basically the expedited version that kanye made famous.

So your argument is that Reks isn't good or artistic because he uses samples in his song like a fair amount of hip hop artists out there today...and nothing about his rap?

[eriatarka24]

To everyone saying "what an idiot, there's lots of good hip hop/r&b", I think it's extremely clear he's only targeting the Top 40 brand. Just because he doesn't say "mainstream" in front of every mention of "hip hop", it doesn't mean you have to rush to the defense of your beloved underground artists. And as trite and obvious as his points may be in relation to Top 40 pop rap, it doesn't make (most of) them any less true.
yep

mainstream was actually a lot better years ago, also. it's just absolutely terrible now.

I liked old school Usher, I'll admit...Can't take anything he did after Confessions seriously.

[Star Slight]

yep

mainstream was actually a lot better years ago, also. it's just absolutely terrible now.

I liked old school Usher, I'll admit...Can't take anything he did after Confessions seriously.

Neh, mainstream was always pretty bad music. As someone said before you were just younger then.

[asthenia*]

So your argument is that Reks isn't good or artistic because he uses samples in his song like a fair amount of hip hop artists out there today...and nothing about his rap?

you're kind of proving my point here... doing something everyone else is doing isn't exactly original or artistic. the fact that he uses influences so obviously bothers me. if kanye had produced the song it would be different. to rip off another artist's style is lame in my opinion. and the lyrics aren't that great either. the first verse is essentially nothing but bragging, second is pretty much the same. i do like the third verse if i;m being honest but in general this isn't my thing. sorry if that bugs you

[kearn1tm]

Mainstream was so much better when I was -2. I mean, that's what my dad tells me!

[IntoTheSun]

I agree with this post.

When you say 60s rock, you think of the legends, like Zep.
When you say 90s rock, you think of butt rock like Creed.

I really hope this is sarcasm.

[Star Slight]

you're kind of proving my point here... doing something everyone else is doing isn't exactly original or artistic. the fact that he uses influences so obviously bothers me. if kanye had produced the song it would be different. to rip off another artist's style is lame in my opinion. and the lyrics aren't that great either. the first verse is essentially nothing but bragging, second is pretty much the same. i do like the third verse if i;m being honest but in general this isn't my thing. sorry if that bugs you

But its not like Kanye invented that style of sampling, its been around since the 90s, probably the 80s. Through the Wire might be one of the more prominent examples, but its definitely not the only one.
Haha, it doesn't bug me if you don't like it, but to act like this is a terrible example of new hip hop is a little ridiculous.

[asthenia*]

But its not like Kanye invented that style of sampling, its been around since the 90s, probably the 80s. Through the Wire might be one of the more prominent examples, but its definitely not the only one.
Haha, it doesn't bug me if you don't like it, but to act like this is a terrible example of new hip hop is a little ridiculous.
oh no i dont think it's a terrible example, i just wouldnt have chosen it. and thats a good point, but that kind of sampling is way more predominant now than it was back then, i think just because it's easier to do

[The Raine]

Okay? So the mainstream sucks, bfd. Is his next video going to be about how water is wet?

Then why make a video? Obviously the mainstream sucks, it's rhetorical to point it out.

The video is aimed at the casual radio listener, not the musical fanatics who post on message boards. From the perspective of most people in this thread, the entire argument is trite and obvious. But as I'm sure you're well aware, there are tens of millions of people beyond the realm of message boards who love only Top 40 music, and those points aren't so obvious to them. You need to recognize the target demographic before saying something doesn't serve a purpose.

He's claiming it sucks now and was great back in the day (whatever "the day" is) by claiming the subject matter and means of beat production was much more original. He's wrong. Some sheep hears "oh man, hip hop sucks now 'cause it's all bitches and hoes" and makes a shitty video pandering to those who think that without actually analyzing the subject. Mainstream hip hop resembles mainstream hip hop now. There was good mainstream hip hop in the '90s and there was good mainstream hip hop in the last decade. There was an endless sea of shit as it pertains to '90s hip hop, just as there was in the '00s.

Point taken. His argument has plenty of holes and he's not the most informed person on the subject of classic and current hip hop. But some of his more obvious points about misogyny, materialism, and huge ego's may help enlighten a couple young radio-listeners. If so, I'd call that a huge win for the world.

[Star Slight]

The video is aimed at the casual radio listener, not the musical fanatics who post on message boards. From the perspective of most people in this thread, the entire argument is trite and obvious. But as I'm sure you're well aware, there are tens of millions of people beyond the realm of message boards who love only Top 40 music, and those points aren't so obvious to them. You need to recognize the target demographic before saying something doesn't serve a purpose.



Point taken. His argument has plenty of holes and he's not the most informed person on the subject of classic and current hip hop. But some of his more obvious points about misogyny, materialism, and huge ego's may help enlighten a couple young radio-listeners. If so, I'd call that a huge win for the world.

I understand what you're trying to say about the top 40 radio listener, but if they're so oblivious to these points, do you think that they would even care about this video? Like do you honestly think that there was one person who watched this and came to the revelation that they will no longer listen to the radio because phrases are reused and rappers talk about bling?
The average top 40 listener, if we're going to generalize them, rarely gives a shit about the lyrics to a song or what the song is about. The majority of these songs are meant to be played at a club or a party, so why should those people care about the integrity of the song? My roomate, who listens to a good amount of music but could probably fall into this category, watched the video with me and said...why should I give a shit about any of this? Which is what, I assume, most people would do when they watched the video.
The video was pointless, and the argument has been made so many times before in a much better fashion.

[Theseventhson]

There's a lot of dumb people in this thread.

[theptrzk]

radio rap is garbage, but so is radio rock.

[ANYcore]

sweeping generalization

[cshadows2887]

There's a lot of dumb people in this thread.

Just for irony's sake I want to point out that it should be there are a lot of dumb people. You obviously know that, but "people are stupid" posts should have proper grammar.

[briewer]

Just for irony's sake I want to point out that it should be there are a lot of dumb people. You obviously know that, but "people are stupid" posts should have proper grammar.
No, he was right. The subject of the sentence, "a lot", is singular and thus the verb should be "is". What you're referring to, "of dumb people", is a prepositional phrase and doesn't have an effect on the subject-verb agreement of the sentence.

[cshadows2887]

No, he was right. The subject of the sentence, "a lot", is singular and thus the verb should be "is". What you're referring to, "of dumb people", is a prepositional phrase and doesn't have an effect on the subject-verb agreement of the sentence.

Actually you're right, Statement rescinded. The phrase "a lot" should really be stricken from the English language anyway.