Time for another religious thread!

[mps]

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

Discuss.

(I don't know where this quote came from, I just found it)

[myaimistruex3]

That was nicely put.

[cantnokdahustle]

Stephen Roberts.

Now, It is my hope that every xtian on here will one day read Mark Twain's Letters from Earth.

[Dan Hollister]

Any Christian will still not be a big fan of this quote because by definition it would be sacriligious to them to believe in any number of gods besides, well, God. Having too few would be the same as having too many. Neither are acceptable.

Not like that's the point of the quote, but that's how it will be interpretted. You can't reason with some of these closed-minded religious people.

[cantnokdahustle]

Any Christian will still not be a big fan of this quote because by definition it would be sacriligious to them to believe in any number of gods besides, well, God. Having too few would be the same as having too many. Neither are acceptable.

Not like that's the point of the quote, but that's how it will be interpretted. You can't reason with some of these closed-minded religious people.

then "they" need to read their bibles again. No where does it state that there are not any other gods out there. "Thou shalt have no OTHER gods BEFORE me."

[kamikazi]

nice quotage there, may have to use that in my next philosophy exam...
i do love religious debating-especially when it gets messy.. which is what i was hoping for in here...

[dai the flu]

not going to debate anything here. but christians dont deny existence of other gods. the bible even calls satan a god.
but like dan hollister said, thats kind've beside the point. you're trying to spark a debate on gods existence, but im not getting into that again. why dont you read all the other threads about it.

[Juliana101]

then "they" need to read their bibles again. No where does it state that there are not any other gods out there. "Thou shalt have no OTHER gods BEFORE me."

I like that one.

[mps]

not going to debate anything here. but christians dont deny existence of other gods. the bible even calls satan a god.
but like dan hollister said, thats kind've beside the point. you're trying to spark a debate on gods existence, but im not getting into that again. why dont you read all the other threads about it.

If you're talking to me then yes, I have read all the other threads about it, and participated in many of them (hence the title of this thread containing the word 'another'). I just thought it's been awhile since anyone has discussed anything of this nature, and just thought I'd post the interesting quote I came across. :thumbsup:

[ghostyouare]

not going to debate anything here. but christians dont deny existence of other gods. the bible even calls satan a god.
but like dan hollister said, thats kind've beside the point. you're trying to spark a debate on gods existence, but im not getting into that again. why dont you read all the other threads about it.
Where does it call satan a god?

[ghostyouare]

then "they" need to read their bibles again. No where does it state that there are not any other gods out there. "Thou shalt have no OTHER gods BEFORE me."
First and last, first and only? It's all the same. That scripture was in reference of false idols not the possibility of other true gods.

[richter915]

First and last, first and only? It's all the same. That scripture was in reference of false idols not the possibility of other true gods.
sick burn

[ghostyouare]

Any Christian will still not be a big fan of this quote because by definition it would be sacriligious to them to believe in any number of gods besides, well, God. Having too few would be the same as having too many. Neither are acceptable.

Not like that's the point of the quote, but that's how it will be interpretted. You can't reason with some of these closed-minded religious people.
Being an athiest doesn't make you open-minded, champ.

[richter915]

oh and for the record, I don't understand the original quote at all and I'd like it to be explained kthx.

[cal1082]

quote doesnt make sense

[dai the flu]

Where does it call satan a god?

2 corinthians 4:4 calls him the god of this world

[cantnokdahustle]

why all of the confusion?

at any given time in the world's history there are tens of thousands of varying gods of all sorts that folks believe in (yes, even today). The quote by Stephen Roberts merely says, you (the theist) and I (the atheist) are not so very different after all. people of the world believe in so many different gods: ahura mazda, shiva,Siddha, Arahant, Acharya, Upadhyaya, Sadhu, Ishvara, Allah, Yahweh, Jehova,etc... the list of contemporary gods would fill many text books (and does). But xtians, muslims, hebrews, etc do not believe in any of the tens of thousands of other gods that people purport to believe in, thus "they" (theists) are atheists in all other religions. So the atheist says look, you know how ridiculous those people on that island look, who are worshipping that deity that you scoff at, well that is the way your practices look to me.

[AdamAtCollege]

As a Christian, I like this quote. It makes sense.

Maybe I'm one of the few, but I understand why some people don't believe. For me, it works. My spiritually makes sense and makes my life better.

But for some people, they don't need that. I like it. Stephen Roberts? Is this from a book or something or just... from out there?

[Dan Hollister]

1) I said it is considered sacriligious to believe in others as they believe in God. I suppose it's a trick of words. I don't mean "believe" as in "exist," I meant "believe" as in "follow." My bad.

2) I also never said that being an athiest makes you open-minded. I have many athiest friends that I have to quite down because they like going after Christians and tearing them apart. But similarly, your average American Christian is not the most open-minded, athiest-tolerating, science-supporting individual. Period. You may me. Most are not. End of story.

3) Reading the Bible almost doesn't matter, because as any historian will tell you, the version of the Bible that circulates around the world right isn't the only version. There's several thousand versions, all different. This version is just the one that was published.

[ghostyouare]

2 corinthians 4:4 calls him the god of this world
I'm willing to bet anything it's just a loose translation.

[ghostyouare]

3) Reading the Bible almost doesn't matter, because as any historian will tell you, the version of the Bible that circulates around the world right isn't the only version. There's several thousand versions, all different. This version is just the one that was published.
hahaha that's simply false. There's hundreds of copies of the old testament that are pretty much word-for-word. And thousands almost word-for-word copies of the new testament. No historian will tell you what you claim unless they haven't done their research.

[Dan Hollister]

Nope, and I know this because I read 2 entire books on the subject by professors at Harvard and other such places that actually have, in their posession, some 14,000 original, handwritten copies of the Bible from before they could start printing them, and absolutely none of them are identical.

You really think that after thousands of years in some cases here, several language translations, human error, and the fact that the printing press didn't even exist until recently... you think they are still all the same?

Not that I really see a point in debating you, because this is undisputable. The modern King James version of the Bible is not the "original," it was merely the most popular English translation, and the first one to get printed.

[dai the flu]

I'm willing to bet anything it's just a loose translation.
i dont know if you're alluding to the particular translation i took that from or not, but i have yet to find any version/translation that doesnt use the word god in that scripture.
plus its consistent with other scriptures in the bible. 1 john 5:19 says the whole world is lying under his power. john 14:30 calls him the ruler of the world, and ephesians 2:2 calls him the ruler of the world's air or attitude. so its no real stretch to think that the bible calls him the "god of the world".

[AdamAtCollege]

It's true. While God is the God of Heaven, Satan is the God of everything in this world.

[MPS_]

Nope, and I know this because I read 2 entire books on the subject by professors at Harvard and other such places that actually have, in their posession, some 14,000 original, handwritten copies of the Bible from before they could start printing them, and absolutely none of them are identical.

You really think that after thousands of years in some cases here, several language translations, human error, and the fact that the printing press didn't even exist until recently... you think they are still all the same?

Not that I really see a point in debating you, because this is undisputable. The modern King James version of the Bible is not the "original," it was merely the most popular English translation, and the first one to get printed.

That may be true about the modern day English translation. However, the Hebrew version of the Old Testament that is used by thousands of Jews and scholars from around the world are nearly word for word identical and even more so, documents from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating back to 2nd Century BCE are once more nearly word for word identical in their text.

[Dan Hollister]

First off, if you're still citing the Old Testament as law in this day and age, I think there's a problem. Second of all, I don't buy what you're saying. If you have some sources or a book on the subject or something, let me know, I honestly would love to check it out, but I can't take something like that at face value. And thirdly, this still doesn't account for the New Testament, which is all over the map.

Partial list of idiotic laws in the Old Testament:
- men may always abuse or leave their wives, women are never for any reason allowed to take such action
- you must beat your children in order to discipline them
- any child born out of wedlock is subject to eternal damnation in hell
- slavery is not only acceptable, but necessary
- homosexuality is an abomination
- tattooing your body is a sin and a crime
- if a man dies leaving behind a son and a daughter, the son inherits everything, the daughter gets nothing, and she must then live the rest of her life under the rule of the son

So even if they are word-for-word correct as you say, you clearly either have to interpret the Old Testament as themes and guidelines rather than law, or you just accept that we should be enforcing the above and a whole lot more.

[dai the flu]

First off, if you're still citing the Old Testament as law in this day and age, I think there's a problem. Second of all, I don't buy what you're saying. If you have some sources or a book on the subject or something, let me know, I honestly would love to check it out, but I can't take something like that at face value. And thirdly, this still doesn't account for the New Testament, which is all over the map.

Partial list of idiotic laws in the Old Testament:
- men may always abuse or leave their wives, women are never for any reason allowed to take such action
- you must beat your children in order to discipline them
- any child born out of wedlock is subject to eternal damnation in hell
- slavery is not only acceptable, but necessary
- homosexuality is an abomination
- tattooing your body is a sin and a crime
- if a man dies leaving behind a son and a daughter, the son inherits everything, the daughter gets nothing, and she must then live the rest of her life under the rule of the son

So even if they are word-for-word correct as you say, you clearly either have to interpret the Old Testament as themes and guidelines rather than law, or you just accept that we should be enforcing the above and a whole lot more.

why dont people understand this? when jesus came to earth and died and blah blah blah, he ended the old law covenant. all those things you mentioned were no longer required. thats not my own personal belief, the bible itself explains it.

[Dan Hollister]

There is a passage talking about this, but it's rather vague. The idea was that the Old would be to govern the Jews and the New to govern the Christians, but it's still a matter of interpretation. There's still untold numbers of people who insist that the Old Testament is law.

Which bugs me more than anything else, because they nitpick. They disobey 99.99% of the Old Testament laws, but bust out lines from it when it's convenient. (i.e. homosexuality is an abomination! The Bible says so!)

[Zeran]

Any Christian will still not be a big fan of this quote because by definition it would be sacriligious to them to believe in any number of gods besides, well, God. Having too few would be the same as having too many. Neither are acceptable.

Not like that's the point of the quote, but that's how it will be interpretted. You can't reason with some of these closed-minded religious people.

what makes believing in your religion close minded? that's their belief, only one god. isn't it close minded to think all christians are lame and that there has to be more than one god or no god?

[AdamAtCollege]

Partial list of idiotic laws in the Old Testament:
- men may always abuse or leave their wives, women are never for any reason allowed to take such action
- you must beat your children in order to discipline them
- any child born out of wedlock is subject to eternal damnation in hell
- slavery is not only acceptable, but necessary
- homosexuality is an abomination
- tattooing your body is a sin and a crime
- if a man dies leaving behind a son and a daughter, the son inherits everything, the daughter gets nothing, and she must then live the rest of her life under the rule of the son



1.) I know of a few scriptures that if a man mistreats a woman WITHOUT JUST CAUSE that he will be punished. Men aren't allowed to do whatever they want, based on Old Testament theology.

2.) I'd like to see the "You MUST beat your children" scripture.

3.) I'd also like to see the slavery is NECESSARY scripture. Maybe I just don't know it, but I've never read that. At the time, slavery was common so they addressed it in the Bible.

4.) In some more traditional countries, the male children still inherit everything. Not unheard of.

Just my view.

[Teeya]

King James version of the Bible is not right either king James had it changed to his liking and had a lot of things regarding women changed so that they couldn’t get any power Also had a lot of references to the blood of Christ taken out and so has a lot of other bibles...
the bible also calls Satan a prince of the air and the father of lies..... Lucifer has never been to hell like most believe he was forced outta heaven in the atmosphere of the earth hence the name the prince of the air
okay with the whole old is law thing it was until Christ came then he fulfilled them all and then he created new laws
Btw Christian (most not all) have twisted things written in the bible there is references to willing servant they work off a debt or work until they can have there own land and they had there left or right ear pieced cant remember right now sorry and then they were free to go I don’t know how the English and Americans got forced slavery outta that if fu*king ridiculous how that happened
And as far as the who spare the rod damn the child I don’t believe that’s what it was originally because like I side before King James changed it he was also a very superstitious man and have done the research on it, it doesn’t take a lot plus human error and many languages later and many translations later here we are having a Jesus discussion we will never know what is real till we die so who cares live life and have fun doing so

^_^

[Alex Djaferis]

I'm willing to bet anything it's just a loose translation.

which is a massive problem with scripture today.

everything can be construed or explained as 'loose scripture'

to me taht sounds an easy way out of not wanting to accept another explanation.

[Alex Djaferis]

hahaha that's simply false. There's hundreds of copies of the old testament that are pretty much word-for-word. And thousands almost word-for-word copies of the new testament. No historian will tell you what you claim unless they haven't done their research.

true. however, todays copy may be vastly different to the first versions back in the day. its been re written and done over. so whose to say that todays message is the actual one that was 'supposed' to be heard?