This is Alabama, we speak English.

[themagicrat]

Tim James is a republican running for governor in Alabama. In his new TV spot he claims that if elected he will only offer the drivers test in English. Needless to say this has angered quite a few people. Currently the exam is offered 12 languages, Arabic, Chinese, English, Farsi, French, German, Greek, Japanese, Korean, Russian, Spanish, Thai and Vietnamese.

I have to say I don't totally disagree with the man seeing as the vast majority of road signs in this country are in English. I was wondering what some other people thought about this. The TV spot is below.

B9ohsvJHkbY&feature=player_embedded

[bard]

This is a million times more racist than the AZ bill to me.

He's pretty much saying that nobody is allowed to live in Alabama that doesn't know how to speak English. There are a ton of normal, legal people in America who don't speak a lick of English.

This guy is ridiculous.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

gJ0pGK5gDhU

[ambulance]

I have to say I don't totally disagree with the man seeing as the vast majority of road signs in this country are in English. I was wondering what some other people thought about this. The TV spot is below.
[/youtube]

Except the majority of signs don't necessarily need to be read to understand their meaning.

[themagicrat]

Except the majority of signs don't necessarily need to be read to understand their meaning.

I don't completely agree with him. I can just kind of see where he's coming from. I mean to offer the test in Farsi and Arabic in a state like Alabama does seem a bit bizarre and to have copies of it just sitting around does seem like a waste of money to me. I think we could reasonably condense the list into five languages or so without much issue.

[apoemtothedead]

Except the majority of signs don't necessarily need to be read to understand their meaning.
It sucks for all the Romans living in Alabama. They'll have no idea what those arabic numbers on that one white and black sign mean.

[apoemtothedead]

I don't completely agree with him. I can just kind of see where he's coming from. I mean to offer the test in Farsi and Arabic in a state like Alabama does seem a bit bizarre and to have copies of it just sitting around does seem like a waste of money to me. I think we could reasonably condense the list into five languages or so without much issue.
Paper is really expensive these days.

[saysmydoctor]

Late pass.

[deFobbed14yrs]

well then, two states i have to stay out of. so the A states are sorta taken care of then. arizona, alabama, alaska

[bard]

I don't completely agree with him. I can just kind of see where he's coming from. I mean to offer the test in Farsi and Arabic in a state like Alabama does seem a bit bizarre and to have copies of it just sitting around does seem like a waste of money to me. I think we could reasonably condense the list into five languages or so without much issue.
Pretty sure that the cost isn't much. I imagine they have a database of documents in their computers for all the different languages they offer (maybe a handful of English and Spanish ones laying around) and they just print the other languages when necessary.

I think if you live in America, you should learn English to make it easier on you, but to deny someone something because they don't know English is extremely racist and egotistical.

[saysmydoctor]

well then, two states i have to stay out of. so the A states are sorta taken care of then. arizona, alabama, alaska
Huckabee's from Arkansas. Boom.

[themagicrat]

Pretty sure that the cost isn't much. I imagine they have a database of documents in their computers for all the different languages they offer (maybe a handful of English and Spanish ones laying around) and they just print the other languages when necessary.

I think if you live in America, you should learn English to make it easier on you, but to deny someone something because they don't know English is extremely racist and egotistical.

I don't think they should be denied it at all, assuming they're legal citizens of course. But I don't see anything wrong with suggesting the test be given in less than 12 languages.

[caveBEAR]

Pretty sure that the cost isn't much. I imagine they have a database of documents in their computers for all the different languages they offer (maybe a handful of English and Spanish ones laying around) and they just print the other languages when necessary.

I think if you live in America, you should learn English to make it easier on you, but to deny someone something because they don't know English is extremely racist and egotistical.

Well put.

[deFobbed14yrs]

Huckabee's from Arkansas. Boom.

add that to the list

[loveisdead]

Fuck another thread I know I'm gonna have to ban someone from.

[loveisdead]

add that to the list

I actually don't mind Huckabee that much.

[caveBEAR]

Fuck another thread I know I'm gonna have to ban someone from.

:lol:

[loveisdead]

:lol:

I only banned the guy for a few days. He'll be back. I'm sure of it.

[Mitch]

Huckabee seems like a decent enough guy but I think some of his beliefs are pretty crazy.

[Smash Adams]

But he's just a businessman, you can't be racist if you're trying to save money duh

[loveisdead]

Huckabee seems like a decent enough guy but I think some of his beliefs are pretty crazy.

I think given his occupation he's actually fairly level headed.

[deFobbed14yrs]

Fuck another thread I know I'm gonna have to ban someone from.


HAHA

I actually don't mind Huckabee that much.

haha and i don't really either but it fit with the alliteration.

[apoemtothedead]

Huckabee seems like a decent enough guy but I think some of his beliefs are pretty crazy.
Agreed. Although his head-to-body ratio is all kinds of fucked up.

[Roboman]

Really, how many transitions are needed in a 30-second spot?! God, at one point he even steps into the shadows in front of the camera?! What a terrible ad.

Oh yeah, back on topic...this is pretty stupid, although I have the feeling that some people will probably just latch onto the "this is Alabama, we speak English" part of it, even if they don't care about the driver's license issue. And surely there must be other, more important issues to deal with?

[studskalny]

Hah this is really stupid..some people need to wake up and realize that there are many legal citizens who have different first languages in this country and the number is going to keep growing.

I think if you live in America, you should learn English to make it easier on you, but to deny someone something because they don't know English is extremely racist and egotistical.

All that needs to be said really.

[DonnerParty666]

this is america, and if you don't like it then you can GIIIIIIIT OUT!

[Domcakes]

Really, how many transitions are needed in a 30-second spot?! God, at one point he even steps into the shadows in front of the camera?! What a terrible ad.
Seriously though! That ad was awful. Did M. Night Shyamalan direct that or something?

[J.C.]

What should we do with the mutes? They don't speak English.

[coma]

bard nailed it. let's go home folks.

[fflash]

No national language, no way this happens.

[Machu505]

Smart man. He knows exactly what Alabama Republicans want to hear.

[zachff]

You could argue that most US-born people in Alabama don't know how to speak English anyways

[Clarett'sGreyGoose]

You could argue that most US-born people in Alabama don't know how to speak English anyways
bazing!

Seriously though, he most likely does know exactly what Republicans in Alabammer want to hear, and people might just latch onto "This is Alabama, we speak English" and vote for him, just like a couple (hundred) thousand young black people went to the polls and voted for Obama...because they wanted a black president, not because of his platform.

Also, is it just me, or does that soft piano music eerily remind anyone else of 2girls1cup?

[zachff]

What an awkward commercial. He starts off all fucking gung-ho about it, then the last 10 seconds with the piano music and the lighting make it out like it's some sad Lifetime movie.

[Crossfade]

What a tool. I see this commercial almost every time I turn on the tv. What's wrong with his argument and makes no "common sense" is the money that would be lost due to various fees and costs that come along with license tests and requirements to drive (license plate, etc...) would far outweigh just having one version of a test instead of many.

This guy is why everyone thinks Alabama is completely backwards.

[Crossfade]

Smart man. He knows exactly what Alabama Republicans want to hear.

So sad. So true.

[SouthernCross40]

TVKsGjs71PQ&feature=related

[schaft]

bard nailed it. let's go home folks.
Agreed.

[tottivillarossi]

Tim James is a republican running for governor in Alabama. In his new TV spot he claims that if elected he will only offer the drivers test in English. Needless to say this has angered quite a few people. Currently the exam is offered 12 languages, Arabic, Chinese, English, Farsi, French, German, Greek, Japanese, Korean, Russian, Spanish, Thai and Vietnamese.

I have to say I don't totally disagree with the man seeing as the vast majority of road signs in this country are in English. I was wondering what some other people thought about this. The TV spot is below.

B9ohsvJHkbY&feature=player_embedded

That was like something out of 30 Rock

gJ0pGK5gDhU

That was hilarious...ly unfunny!! HA!! SEE WHAT I DID???

[sargentlgfuad]

Hey Tim James, this is not only Alabama, this is also America. We are a melting pot.

[sargentlgfuad]

oh dear, how will someone whose native language is Spanish be able to understand these complicated English road signs!

http://rylish.usu.edu/courses/mobility/images/road_signs.jpg

[aoftbsten]

Wouldn't this also be bad for business as it would discourage people who don't speak english from taking the test at all?

[UnderMyDreams]

I don't completely agree with him. I can just kind of see where he's coming from. I mean to offer the test in Farsi and Arabic in a state like Alabama does seem a bit bizarre and to have copies of it just sitting around does seem like a waste of money to me. I think we could reasonably condense the list into five languages or so without much issue.

There's a reason it's offered in these languages. So what, maybe it seems a little bizarre to you. But I'll bet that there are people who have taken it in that language. Just because a ton of people don't doesn't mean they should get rid of it. It doesn't cost any more to have it there, it's not hurting anybody.

While it is true that signs are in English, just because the person taking the test doesn't take it in English doesn't mean they don't KNOW English. Maybe, for example, English is the person's second language. They are fluent in it, yet they feel more comfortable with Spanish. So that person chooses to take the test in Spanish instead. Yes, they still know English, but it is easier for them to take it in Spanish.

Or maybe they don't understand English. But how many road signs are really in English that it's necessary to know English for. Most signs are just symbols... Anyone can understand a stop sign whether or not they can read English. It's a completely racist law and is completely unnecessary and just teaches intolerance.

[Jason Tate]

You could argue that most US-born people in Alabama don't know how to speak English anyways
Count it!

[atarirockstar]

I think if you live in America, you should learn English to make it easier on you, but to deny someone something because they don't know English is extremely racist and egotistical.

I don't agree with this at all. I think somebody not learning the national language and expecting others to cater to them for being lazy is egotistical.

[J.C.]

I don't agree with this at all. I think somebody not learning the national language and expecting others to cater to them for being lazy is egotistical.

Yep, not being capable of picking up another language makes you lazy and egotistical. No other real suitable explanation.

[Jason Tate]

I still don't understand why people care what other people speak. Why's it matter so much to anyone?

[zachff]

I still don't understand why people care what other people speak. Why's it matter so much to anyone?
Obviously it all comes down to being able to understand the voice coming out of the box in the Wendy's fast food drive-thru.

[concernedparent]

So he's demanding that everyone in Alabama speak English? Or rather...they can't drive until they learn English? Seems a little unfair to me..also pointless. And as for that "road signs are in English" comment earlier, road signs are supposed to be easily understood by anyone because of the visuals. Stop is pretty easily distinguishable from yield, etc.

[SunnyInPhilly]

This is a million times more racist than the AZ bill to me.

He's pretty much saying that nobody is allowed to live in Alabama that doesn't know how to speak English. There are a ton of normal, legal people in America who don't speak a lick of English.

This guy is ridiculous.

Racist? Please explain how only giving the test in English makes them racist. Anyone of any race can speak any language. They're not singling out any specific language to exclude. If they were only allowing it in English, French, and German, you might be able to make that case, since those languages are spoken primarily by whites. That's not the case though. Agree with it or not, it has nothing to do with race.

[Jason Tate]

Racist? Please explain how only giving the test in English makes them racist. Anyone of any race can speak any language. They're not singling out any specific language to exclude. If they were only allowing it in English, French, and German, you might be able to make that case, since those languages are spoken primarily by whites. That's not the case though. Agree with it or not, it has nothing to do with race.
It's an act that discriminates primarily against other races. The ability to learn another language changes nothing. The supposition that one should have to learn one language is extremely ethnocentric. And - for the record - white and black aren't the only races.

[M.C COB]

Having lived the past year in Alabama, the politicians here have A LOT more to be concerned about than this.

[SunnyInPhilly]

It's an act that discriminates primarily against other races. The ability to learn another language changes nothing. The supposition that one should have to learn one language is extremely ethnocentric. And - for the record - white and black aren't the only races.

No, it doesn't. French, German, Greek, and Russian. All European languages spoken by primarily caucasians. it discriminates as much against primarily white languages as it does against any others. And I said nothing close to suggesting that race is restricted to blacks and whites, so I'm not really sure where you pulled that from.

[Jason Tate]

No, it doesn't. French, German, Greek, and Russian. All European languages spoken by primarily caucasians. it discriminates as much against primarily white languages as it does against any others. And I said nothing close to suggesting that race is restricted to blacks and whites, so I'm not really sure where you pulled that from.
And you miss the part where it discriminates against primarily non-caucasian people far more than any other. It's discriminatory to WHITE Germans who only speak German as well. Which is ... still racist ... even though the color of their skin is white.

[Theseventhson]

No, it doesn't. French, German, Greek, and Russian. All European languages spoken by primarily caucasians. it discriminates as much against primarily white languages as it does against any others. And I said nothing close to suggesting that race is restricted to blacks and whites, so I'm not really sure where you pulled that from.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#Institutional

[Toothache]

that's like barring an english speaking person from england because they don't have a british accent.

[deFobbed14yrs]

Yep, not being capable of picking up another language makes you lazy and egotistical. No other real suitable explanation.

America doesn't have a national language, so just because a lot of citizens speak English does not make it America's language.


you're joking, i get it. sorry.

[loveisdead]

America doesn't have a national language, so just because a lot of citizens speak English does not make it America's language.

He was kidding.

[deFobbed14yrs]

He was kidding.


oh ok. then nevermind then. but my sentence still works for the thread

[themagicrat]

There's a reason it's offered in these languages. So what, maybe it seems a little bizarre to you. But I'll bet that there are people who have taken it in that language. Just because a ton of people don't doesn't mean they should get rid of it. It doesn't cost any more to have it there, it's not hurting anybody.

While it is true that signs are in English, just because the person taking the test doesn't take it in English doesn't mean they don't KNOW English. Maybe, for example, English is the person's second language. They are fluent in it, yet they feel more comfortable with Spanish. So that person chooses to take the test in Spanish instead. Yes, they still know English, but it is easier for them to take it in Spanish.

Or maybe they don't understand English. But how many road signs are really in English that it's necessary to know English for. Most signs are just symbols... Anyone can understand a stop sign whether or not they can read English. It's a completely racist law and is completely unnecessary and just teaches intolerance.

I don't see the need to offer it in 12 languages. I doubt any other country in the world offers it in that many. Most of Europe is just as ethnically diverse as the US is but they don't offer it in 12 languages. But this really isn't about the driving exam at all. It's much more about the absolute unwillingness of modern immigrants to learn english. When my grandparents came to this country 75 years ago they managed to learn the language just fine and assimilated into society, they took their driving exams in english. But for some reason today's immigrants aren't expected to learn english and we're expected to adjust our lives to fit them. If I moved to a non english speaking country I would expect to have to learn that language. I just don't understand why that is no longer expected of immigrants in this country.

[Jason Tate]

Wow.

Better idea: Put it all on computers, translation software does all the work, no extra paper - no extra money. Everyone can speak whatever the fuck they want - and people can STFU about those that are different.

[UnderMyDreams]

I don't see the need to offer it in 12 languages. I doubt any other country in the world offers it in that many. Most of Europe is just as ethnically diverse as the US is but they don't offer it in 12 languages. But this really isn't about the driving exam at all. It's much more about the absolute unwillingness of modern immigrants to learn english. When my grandparents came to this country 75 years ago they managed to learn the language just fine and assimilated into society, they took their driving exams in english. But for some reason today's immigrants aren't expected to learn english and we're expected to adjust our lives to fit them. If I moved to a non english speaking country I would expect to have to learn that language. I just don't understand why that is no longer expected of immigrants in this country.

You know English isn't the official language of the United States, right?

So why would it make it fair to say "You don't know English well enough to drive. Yes we are aware the signs are not in English and yes we are you are not legally required to learn English.. But we don't care, we're gonna make it as hard as we possibly can for you to fit into this country so you are forced into what we want. You're incapable of taking our test to drive, so you can't do it."

[themagicrat]

You're an idiot. Thanks for playing.

You know English isn't the official language of the United States, right?

I'm fully aware that we don't have a national language. I'm not saying we should have one.

[UnderMyDreams]

I'm fully aware that we don't have a national language. I'm not saying we should have one.

You're just saying that we should make it impossible for immigrants to fit into society unless they learn English.

[themagicrat]

You're just saying that we should make it impossible for immigrants to fit into society unless they learn English.

Hardly. I've got no problem with offering it multiple languages, I said that. I just don't see the need for 12. There's no reason we could reduce the list to English, Spanish, French, Chinese, and German. Or at least something to that effect. Or, like it's all been suggested, put the whole damn thing on the computer. I've got no problem at all with diversity, I don't like the absolute unwillingness to even try to assimilate.

[UnderMyDreams]

Hardly. I've got no problem with offering it multiple languages, I said that. I just don't see the need for 12. There's no reason we could reduce the list to English, Spanish, French, Chinese, and German. Or at least something to that effect. Or, like it's all been suggested, put the whole damn thing on the computer. I've got no problem at all with diversity, I don't like the absolute unwillingness to even try to assimilate.
Nobody's talking about an unwillingness to assimilate. We're talking about taking a test in a native language.

[UnderMyDreams]

Wow.

Better idea: Put it all on computers, translation software does all the work, no extra paper - no extra money. Everyone can speak whatever the fuck they want - and people can STFU about those that are different.

Except, sadly, people still get mad if something on the computer asks them what language they want to do something in...

[Jason Tate]

Why do you care of someone tries to "assimilate" or not?

[themagicrat]

Nobody's talking about an unwillingness to assimilate. We're talking about taking a test in a native language.

Except that the issue of taking the test truly boils down to the unwillingness to assimilate. I think that's shown in the whole "we speak english, if you want to live here learn it" comment. But maybe that's just how I see the issue.

[Jason Tate]

Except that the issue of taking the test truly boils down to the unwillingness to assimilate. I think that's shown in the whole "we speak english, if you want to live here learn it" comment. But maybe that's just how I see the issue.
Why do you care of someone tries to "assimilate" or not?

Before you're 40 more people will speak Spanish here than English. If you want to live here, learn it.

[UnderMyDreams]

Except that the issue of taking the test truly boils down to the unwillingness to assimilate. I think that's shown in the whole "we speak english, if you want to live here learn it" comment. But maybe that's just how I see the issue.

No it doesn't. The option to take a test in your native language doesn't mean you won't assimilate. For all you know the people taking this test in Spanish understand English, but would rather take it in Spanish because it's easier for them.

You said that it's not about wanting an official language, but your whole opinion is based around "we speak English, if you want to live hear learn it." That means "No, English is not our official language. However, that doesn't matter to us. We'll force you to learn it anyways. We'll make it impossible for you to live here without knowing English."

What about this scenario. A new immigrant moves here. They do not know English yet, but are in the process of learning the language. You're saying that we shouldn't allow them to drive (which may be necessary for the individual) until they know the English language, which takes a hell of a long time to learn.

[saysmydoctor]

Having lived the past year in Alabama, the politicians here have A LOT more to be concerned about than this.
Just so you know, I went to Monroe, to Big Mike's Pizza and it was the best fucking slice of pizza I've ever had. I want that served after my funeral.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#Institutional
:appl:
Why do you care of someone tries to "assimilate" or not?

Before you're 40 more people will speak Spanish here than English. If you want to live here, learn it.
/thread

[themagicrat]

Why do you care of someone tries to "assimilate" or not?

Before you're 40 more people will speak Spanish here than English. If you want to live here, learn it.

I'm aware that by 2050 the majority of the country is expected to be of hispanic decent, thus my decision to take 6 years of Spanish. Can I speak it fluently, no. Can I get my point across, yes. I think it's good to assimilate because I think it creates a more united country instead of the division we currently have. I'm not asking anyone to drop their culture, traditions, or language, I'm just asking them to weave parts of this country into them.

[saysmydoctor]

I'm aware that by 2050 the majority of the country is expected to be of hispanic decent, thus my decision to take 6 years of Spanish. Can I speak it fluently, no. Can I get my point across, yes. I think it's good to assimilate because I think it creates a more united country instead of the division we currently have. I'm not asking anyone to drop their culture, traditions, or language, I'm just asking them to weave parts of this country into them.
Why, are you making an effort to weave their culture into yours besides learning how to make an order at a restaurant on vacation?

[theguy77]

i'm not really understanding why people are getting so defensive about the concept of immigrants learning the primary language of a country before moving into it. having a driving test in one language only is one thing, i agree that that's discriminatory. but if you want to facilitate the normal operation of a country's society, having homogenized communication is vital. if none of the hispanic immigrants into america learn english and you really have more spanish speakers here, while they shouldn't be FORCED to, i think it would cause the country to be more divided than it already is culturally, and everything would be segregated by language, because each group could only live where they could understand the other people. we've seen in the past and still see today what cultural segregation does to a country and how the underdog is never well represented. people speaking different languages can coexist, but the communication barrier makes it pretty much impossible for them to operate effectively on the same realms of society.

[themagicrat]

Why, are you making an effort to weave their culture into yours besides learning to make an order at a restaurant?

Yes, I am.

[saysmydoctor]

i'm not really understanding why people are getting so defensive about the concept of immigrants learning the primary language of a country before moving into it. having a driving test in one language only is one thing, i agree that that's discriminatory. but if you want to facilitate the normal operation of a country's society, having homogenized communication is vital. if none of the hispanic immigrants into america learn english and you really have more spanish speakers here, while they shouldn't be FORCED to, i think it would cause the country to be more divided than it already is culturally, and everything would be segregated by language, because each group could only live where they could understand the other people. we've seen in the past and still see today what cultural segregation does to a country and how the underdog is never well represented. people speaking different languages can coexist, but the communication barrier makes it pretty much impossible for them to operate effectively on the same realms of society.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe

[theguy77]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe

...europe isn't one fucking country. not even nearly the same thing.

[Jason Tate]

I'm aware that by 2050 the majority of the country is expected to be of hispanic decent, thus my decision to take 6 years of Spanish. Can I speak it fluently, no. Can I get my point across, yes. I think it's good to assimilate because I think it creates a more united country instead of the division we currently have. I'm not asking anyone to drop their culture, traditions, or language, I'm just asking them to weave parts of this country into them.
A more united country? Why is that important - at all? Who cares. It sounds pretty - but it means virtually nothing. And I'm willing to bet that most "non English" speakers weave large parts of this country into their lives - just by being here. Why do you care? Seriously.

[themagicrat]

A more united country? Why is that important - at all? Who cares. It sounds pretty - but it means virtually nothing. And I'm willing to bet that most "non English" speakers weave large parts of this country into their lives - just by being here. Why do you care? Seriously.

Why do I care? Because I honestly think that this near 50/50 split we currently have is going to tear us apart at the seams.

[Jason Tate]

i'm not really understanding why people are getting so defensive about the concept of immigrants learning the primary language of a country before moving into it. having a driving test in one language only is one thing, i agree that that's discriminatory. but if you want to facilitate the normal operation of a country's society, having homogenized communication is vital. if none of the hispanic immigrants into america learn english and you really have more spanish speakers here, while they shouldn't be FORCED to, i think it would cause the country to be more divided than it already is culturally, and everything would be segregated by language, because each group could only live where they could understand the other people. we've seen in the past and still see today what cultural segregation does to a country and how the underdog is never well represented. people speaking different languages can coexist, but the communication barrier makes it pretty much impossible for them to operate effectively on the same realms of society.
This sounds like something written in 1920.

Why is division a bad thing? I may be in the minority - but I think diversity is good.

[Jason Tate]

Why do I care? Because I honestly think that this near 50/50 split we currently have is going to tear us apart at the seams.
No different than it's always been. And all speaking one language ain't changing that.

[saysmydoctor]

...europe isn't one fucking country. not even nearly the same thing.
http://europa.eu/

Sad that I have to spell this out.

[themagicrat]

No different than it's always been. And all speaking one language ain't changing that.

You really don't think the divide is growing? It seems to me like the rift gets wider on a daily basis.

[theguy77]

A more united country? Why is that important - at all? Who cares. It sounds pretty - but it means virtually nothing. And I'm willing to bet that most "non English" speakers weave large parts of this country into their lives - just by being here. Why do you care? Seriously.

a person who doesn't speak english probably won't be able to work for an american company. how can you work if you can't communicate with your superiors, co-workers, clientele/customers, consultants, etc. etc.? if they all started their own small businesses, they would crowd out the economy and NO small business, including them, would have enough customer base to make their own profits. and the chances are nearly nonexistent that a whole COMPANY started today on the basis of a spanish language would make enough of a splash in the economy to rival all the major corporations that are already here and already are designed to work with the actual majority of our country. also, how long do you think it would take to design a curriculum entirely in spanish and build thousands more schools specifically for spanish speakers?

if you had half the country speaking a different language, they'd be impoverished and uneducated for a LONG time before this country could afford to accomodate them, so that negatively affects them. meanwhile, that'd drag down the economy of our nation as a whole, especially because we're spending so much to try to provide for them and to try to gentrify their communities, which will probably suffer from extreme urban decay and possible lawlessness, just like the predominantly black ghettoes in inner city areas.

[saysmydoctor]

You really don't think the divide is growing? It seems to me like the rift gets wider on a daily basis.
Did you just ignore his second sentence or something?

[themagicrat]

Did you just ignore his second sentence or something?

Did I unintentionally miss something? I took his second sentence to mean that everyone speaking only english wouldn't close the divide. I thought he meant that he thinks the current situation is no worse than it's previously been.

[Jason Tate]

You really don't think the divide is growing? It seems to me like the rift gets wider on a daily basis.
I think a cursory look at history shows that it's not growing. This country has been divided on most major issues through our entire existence.

[theguy77]

http://europa.eu/

Sad that I have to spell this out.

yeah but most the french speakers still live in france, most the german speakers live in germany, etc. etc. they're coexisting but they're still not quite a unified society. if someone from spain waltzed into germany and tried to start a life there without learning their language, they'd find it next to impossible, most notably because they can't get work.

[Jason Tate]

a person who doesn't speak english probably won't be able to work for an american company.
Wow, so wrong.

how can you work if you can't communicate with your superiors, co-workers, clientele/customers, consultants, etc. etc.?
Want to ask Google? Or others? Hell, got a Finnish friend here that is currently doing research at OHSU. Can't speak English.

[themagicrat]

I think a cursory look at history shows that it's not growing. This country has been divided on most major issues through our entire existence.

Alright. I'm not sure I totally agree. But there's no point in arguing.

[theguy77]

Wow, so wrong.

Want to ask Google? Or others? Hell, got a Finnish friend here that is doing research at OHSU. Can't speak English.

alright, whatever jason. i'm not stubborn about my view, i'm open to my mind being changed depending on the information presented to me, but this conversation isn't worth having if you're not actually going to explain the other side of the argument.

[Jason Tate]

alright, whatever jason. i'm not stubborn about my view, i'm open to my mind being changed depending on the information presented to me, but this conversation isn't worth having if you're not actually going to explain the other side of the argument.
Not sure which portion of my post you didn't follow. Two American companies, by name, that hire people that don't speak English. That is the other side of the argument to "a person who doesn't speak english probably won't be able to work for an american company."

Hell, how about this: Right now, in fact, roughly 11% of jobs in America are filled by those who speak no English at all (http://www.businessknowledgesource.com/manufacturing/tips_for_working_with_nonenglish_sp eaking_employees_in_manufacturing_0 27364.html).

What you are saying is factually incorrect. That's what I'm saying.

[themagicrat]

Wow, so wrong.
While you are completely right about that it does have some unfortunate consequences from time to time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster#Work_conditions Though I suppose that does boil down to corporate negligence as much as anything else.

[apoemtothedead]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe
Major lols.

[Jason Tate]

While you are completely right about that it does have some unfortunate consequences from time to time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster#Work_conditions Though I suppose that does boil down to corporate negligence as much as anything else.
Uh, seems like a good counter argument to what you're saying.

"Workers were forced to use English manuals"

If they would have provided them in other languages ...

[themagicrat]

Uh, seems like a good counter argument to what you're saying.

"Workers were forced to use English manuals"

If they would have provided them in other languages ...

Haha, it wasn't in this country, thankfully. But yes, I agree they should have been given the manuals in India's national language.

[J.C.]

i'm not really understanding why people are getting so defensive about the concept of immigrants learning the primary language of a country before moving into it. having a driving test in one language only is one thing, i agree that that's discriminatory. but if you want to facilitate the normal operation of a country's society, having homogenized communication is vital. if none of the hispanic immigrants into america learn english and you really have more spanish speakers here, while they shouldn't be FORCED to, i think it would cause the country to be more divided than it already is culturally, and everything would be segregated by language, because each group could only live where they could understand the other people. we've seen in the past and still see today what cultural segregation does to a country and how the underdog is never well represented. people speaking different languages can coexist, but the communication barrier makes it pretty much impossible for them to operate effectively on the same realms of society.

The issue isn't whether it's beneficial for immigrants to learn the majority language, the issue is the role of government and whether it's being discriminatory against its citizens and blacklisting a portion of the country as a result.

[theguy77]

Not sure which portion of my post you didn't follow. Two American companies, by name, that hire people that don't speak English. That is the other side of the argument to "a person who doesn't speak english probably won't be able to work for an american company."'

oh, i didn't know thats what you meant when you said "want to ask Google", i thought you meant that i should look it up myself. my bad.
Hell, how about this: Right now, in fact, roughly 11% of jobs in America are filled by those who speak no English at all (http://www.businessknowledgesource.com/manufacturing/tips_for_working_with_nonenglish_sp eaking_employees_in_manufacturing_0 27364.html).

What you are saying is factually incorrect. That's what I'm saying.
yeah and a lot of those are in a low income bracket, and those spanish speakers are still living in communities suffering from extreme urban decay. i bet they don't feel too welcome in this country either because of the cultural barrier between them and most american citizens. diversity is good, yes, and i see where you're coming from, but the conditions for those who don't speak english in this country are already awful, what happens when that population doubles or triples? we'd have an even harder time trying to accommodate them even if we focused a lot more of our government's effort to that cause, especially while still trying to balance and work on all the other issues this country has right now.

[Jason Tate]

oh, i didn't know thats what you meant when you said "want to ask Google", i thought you meant that i should look it up myself. my bad.

yeah and a lot of those are in a low income bracket, and those spanish speakers are still living in communities suffering from extreme urban decay. i bet they don't feel too welcome in this country either because of the cultural barrier between them and most american citizens. diversity is good, yes, and i see where you're coming from, but the conditions for those who don't speak english in this country are already awful, what happens when that population doubles or triples? we'd have an even harder time trying to accommodate them even if we focused a lot more of our government's effort to that cause, especially while still trying to balance and work on all the other issues this country has right now.
I fail to see how the answer is to have them learn English. That doesn't change any of the conditions you're describing. "Communities suffering from extreme urban decay" is not because they're speaking a different language.

Correlation versus causation.

[theguy77]

I fail to see how the answer is to have them learn English. That doesn't change any of the conditions you're describing. "Communities suffering from extreme urban decay" is not because they're speaking a different language.

Correlation versus causation.

see, this is where i think you're factually incorrect. past civil discrimination is a part of why those communities developed that way in the first palce, yes, and that's largely america's fault, but these conditions are only going to increase for as long as that group of people still has the cultural rift, because it's nearly impossible that they can function in a part of society where they can't understand each other. it's a vicious cycle, the law doesn't forcibly segregate races anymore but inner city detroit is still a bad area and african-americans still live in that rut because 1) they don't have the money from their cheap jobs to move their family out and 2) they can't culturally assimilate anywhere else.

[saysmydoctor]

Major lols.
:shrug:

[Jason Tate]

see, this is where i think you're factually incorrect. past civil discrimination is a part of why those communities developed that way in the first palce, yes, and that's largely america's fault, but these conditions are only going to increase for as long as that group of people still has the cultural rift, because it's nearly impossible that they can function in a part of society where they can't understand each other. it's a vicious cycle, the law doesn't forcibly segregate races anymore but inner city detroit is still a bad area and african-americans still live in that rut because 1) they don't have the money from their cheap jobs to move their family out and 2) they can't culturally assimilate anywhere else.
Nothing you said there has anything to do with language ... there is no argument to be made for causation. What languge are you saying these "african-americans" are speaking?

[theguy77]

Nothing you said there has anything to do with language ....

? the main reason for the cultural divide which segregates them in the first place is BECAUSE they don't speak the same language. thats why they can only move into those bad areas because thats they only place their language is accomodated, and also because the jobs available to them (because they speak another language) only pay them enough to afford rent in those kinds of areas.

not to mention the whole reason gangs are incorporated and gang violence happens is because that's the only way a lot of them can make enough money to support their families, through organized crime and drug trafficking. so their areas become unsafe as well, and probably not well policed considering most police officers don't want to work in an area where their life is threatened daily by gangs.

[Jason Tate]

? the main reason for the cultural divide which segregates them in the first place is BECAUSE they don't speak the same language. thats why they can only move into those bad areas because thats they only place their language is accomodated, and also because the jobs available to them (because they speak another language) only pay them enough to afford rent in those kinds of areas.

not to mention the whole reason gangs are incorporated and gang violence happens is because that's the only way a lot of them can make enough money to support their families, through organized crime and drug trafficking. so their areas become unsafe as well, and probably not well policed considering most police officers don't want to work in an area where their life is threatened daily by gangs.
Your entire post was about african-americans in Detroit. Do they not speak English?

I live in a town made up of probably 85% Spanish speaking only. Great town. They can ONLY move into bad areas? They can only get crappy jobs? I know how much my mortgage costs. Native Korens, Hispanics, and I think east Germany ... just on my block. Please, keep stereotyping ...

And what the hell do gangs have to do with language? Do you think all these gangs are speaking something other than English? What the hell?

[theguy77]

Your entire post was about african-americans in Detroit. Do they not speak English?

i was using them as an example of how cultural segregation creates problems in large parts of cities, that take an extremely long time and lots of money and police effort and civil reformation to fix. just because the REASON african-americans are culturally segregated is different, doesn't mean the situation and outcome is different.

I live in a town made up of probably 85% Spanish speaking only. Great town. They can ONLY move into bad areas? They can only get crappy jobs? I know how much my mortgage costs. Native Korens, Hispanics, and I think east Germany ... just on my block. Please, keep stereotyping ...
good for you but you know damn well that's not the way the majority of this country works. i live in a mostly hispanic area as well, and i couldn't tell you conditions are as good for them as they are for me with a straight face.

[theguy77]

And what the hell do gangs have to do with language? Do you think all these gangs are speaking something other than English? What the hell?

are you even reading my reasoning? i said gangs are started out of necessity for money, which in turn comes from the fact that because they speak a different language, they have a hard time making enough money from their jobs to support their families. that is an indirect causal correlation that can be traced back to the fact that their langauge is different. not to mention, a lot of them can't afford to live anywhere without gang crime, so the areas they live in have negative influences on their children who might also get caught up in gang violence. seriously, have you no awareness of conditions in south central L.A.? this is EXACTLY what happens to a lot of the hispanic speaking population there.

[Jason Tate]

are you even reading my reasoning? i said gangs are started out of necessity for money, which in turn comes from the fact that because they speak a different language, they have a hard time making enough money from their jobs to support their families. that is an indirect causal correlation that can be traced back to the fact that their langauge is different. not to mention, a lot of them can't afford to live anywhere without gang crime, so the areas they live in have negative influences on their children who might also get caught up in gang violence. seriously, have you no awareness of conditions in south central L.A.? this is EXACTLY what happens to a lot of the hispanic speaking population there.
And what the hell do gangs have to do with language? Do you think all these gangs are speaking something other than English? What the hell?

Correlation does not equal causation. Bad science.

[theguy77]

And what the hell do gangs have to do with language? Do you think all these gangs are speaking something other than English? What the hell?

all flies are insects. not all insects are flies.

[Jason Tate]

i was using them as an example of how cultural segregation creates problems in large parts of cities, that take an extremely long time and lots of money and police effort and civil reformation to fix. just because the REASON african-americans are culturally segregated is different, doesn't mean the situation and outcome is different.
Apples and oranges are not the same thing.

good for you but you know damn well that's not the way the majority of this country works. i live in a mostly hispanic area as well, and i couldn't tell you conditions are as good for them as they are for me with a straight face.
And you're making some weird assumptions that it's based on language. Pretty fucked up leap to make.

[Jason Tate]

all flies are insects. not all insects are flies.
Correlation does not imply causation. Bad science.

Let me get this straight: You are saying a language difference is the cause of less money being made, which is the cause of gangs ... right?

[rawesome]

India, as one example, has 22(ish) official languages. The United States doesn't have one according to our Constitution. This guy needs to get over it.

It's basically saying that it's okay for his ancestors to come over from another country that doesn't speak English, but not anyone else.

[theguy77]

alright, im going to spell it out one last time. when a spanish speaking person (for example) moves to america, knowing little to no english, the reason they can't get GOOD jobs or live in GOOD areas is because almost all the jobs/areas that accomodate to their language are not good. IN TURN, this contributes to all of the issues im talking about. A --> B --> C, transitive property. anyone who can't get a good job for ANY REASON probably can't live in a good area. anyone who can't live in a good area and doesn't have much money for ANY REASON is susceptible to all those civil issues. speaking a different language only, is one of many possible reasons why ANY PERSON can get caught up in that situation, so the immigrants who don't speak english get stuck in that rut most of the time.

[theguy77]

Apples and oranges are not the same thing.

cultural segregation and cultural segregation are the same thing.

[Jason Tate]

alright, im going to spell it out one last time. when a spanish speaking person (for example) moves to america, knowing little to no english, the reason they can't get GOOD jobs or live in GOOD areas is because almost all the jobs/areas that accomodate to their language are not good.
This is not true. Just a flat out falsehood. How many examples do you need? The guy making 150k as a software engineer that can't speak English? The biochemical genius that only speaks farsi? The reason they can't get a "good job" is not proven to be BECAUSE of their language. Your premise is wrong, there's no need to continue through your post when the initial premise is wrong.

Just because someone speaks a different language, and is poor - DOES NOT IMPLY CAUSATION.

[rawesome]

alright, im going to spell it out one last time. when a spanish speaking person (for example) moves to america, knowing little to no english, the reason they can't get GOOD jobs or live in GOOD areas is because almost all the jobs/areas that accomodate to their language are not good. IN TURN, this contributes to all of the issues im talking about. A --> B --> C, transitive property. anyone who can't get a good job for ANY REASON probably can't live in a good area. anyone who can't live in a good area and doesn't have much money for ANY REASON is susceptible to all those civil issues. speaking a different language only, is one of many possible reasons why ANY PERSON can get caught up in that situation, so the immigrants who don't speak english get stuck in that rut most of the time.
I think the reason they can't get a "good" job (by which I assume you mean something where one sits in an office with little to no manual labor) is because they aren't educated for such a position. Typically, if they're educated, they would have some understanding of English, since it is the predominant language in the world. I mean, I have an English Lit. degree and I know a little Spanish because it is necessary to the world in which I live.

Besides that, immigrants probably do a lot better than most lower-class American families who speak fluent English because they work hard and save well.

[theguy77]

This is not true. Just a flat out falsehood. How many examples do you need? The reason they can't get a "good job" is not BECAUSE of their language. Your premise is wrong, there's no need to continue through your post when the initial premise is wrong.

Just because someone speaks a different language, and is poor - DOES NOT IMPLY CAUSATION.

okay, well i disagree with you. there's a reason why almost everybody who doesn't speak english is in a low income bracket. i bet if they were surveyed a vast majority of them would say they have a hard time getting good, well-paying, professional work, because their language difference limits them.

[theguy77]

I think the reason they can't get a "good" job (by which I assume you mean something where one sits in an office with little to no manual labor) is because they aren't educated for such a position. Typically, if they're educated, they would have some understanding of English, since it is the predominant language in the world. I mean, I have an English Lit. degree and I know a little Spanish because it is necessary to the world in which I live.

this is also a possibility, but then the fact that we don't really have schools for spanish-speaking people means that language is also a barrier to them getting good education, so language is still the source of the problem.

Besides that, immigrants probably do a lot better than most lower-class American families who speak fluent English because they work hard and save well.
i mean, if they have to work HARDER than an american citizen, and they have to pile their entire families into one house and only have one or two cars for everybody while most working americans have a car to themselves (and i see this with more than half the homes in my neighborhood in College Park), their conditions are worse than an american citizen.

[Jason Tate]

okay, well i disagree with you. there's a reason why almost everybody who doesn't speak english is in a low income bracket. i bet if they were surveyed a vast majority of them would say they have a hard time getting good, well-paying, professional work, because their language difference limits them.
And that reason can't just be picked out of the blue as "because they don't speak English." That's just bad science to try and make that kind of jump. It's a logical fallacy. Flawed. Bad. And any other way of saying "wrong" you can think of. Disagreeing with me doesn't change that.

And a survey has absolutely nothing to do with it. They may very well say that ... but 15 people saying the color of their hair is why they didn't get a job, doesn't mean it's why they didn't get the job.

Teaching the world, or even just our immigrants, English is not going to fix poverty. The issues lay FAR deeper than a language barrier.

[rawesome]

this is also a possibility, but then the fact that we don't really have schools for spanish-speaking people means that language is also a barrier to them getting good education, so language is still the source of the problem.
Often, in Conservative areas, schools get hit with a lot of backlash if they try to implement Spanish-education. For native born citizens of immigrant parents, most of them already speak English pretty well, though. Their parents likely don't have a desire to have what you consider a good job anyway, and come over in order to simply make money and support their families, which conditions in their home countries don't really allow.

i mean, if they have to work HARDER than an american citizen, and they have to pile their entire families into one house and only have one or two cars for everybody while most working americans have a car to themselves (and i see this with more than half the homes in my neighborhood in College Park), their conditions are worse than an american citizen.
A. That's horribly stereotypical and racist.
B. Who says that's a "better" life? You? Who the fuck are you?
C. Most immigrants return to Mexico during the winters and such when there isn't farm work to be done. Because of the exchange rate, they often have big houses and multiple cars.
D. You're attitude is why America is falling behind the rest of the world rapidly. Why are you diminishing people for wanting to work hard?

[theguy77]

And that reason can't just be picked out of the blue as "because they don't speak English." That's just bad science to try and make that kind of jump. It's a logical fallacy. Flawed. Bad. And any other way of saying "wrong" you can think of. Disagreeing with me doesn't change that.

And a survey has absolutely nothing to do with it. They may very well say that ... but 15 people saying the color of their hair is why they didn't get a job, doesn't mean it's why they didn't get the job.

i'm not just going to accept that i'm "wrong" unless you show me some kind of graph or statistic that shows that a solid portion of people who don't speak english much or at all have GOOD PAYING jobs. i find that excessively farfetched and hard to believe. if you can find me something like that, i'll admit that i'm wrong and disregard all of the arguments ive made in this thread.

[Jason Tate]

i'm not just going to accept that i'm "wrong" unless you show me some kind of graph or statistic that shows that a solid portion of people who don't speak english much or at all have GOOD PAYING jobs. i find that excessively farfetched and hard to believe. if you can find me something like that, i'll admit that i'm wrong and disregard all of the arguments ive made in this thread.
50% of the manufacturing jobs are by non-English speakers.

The income for that kind of job: between 35-70k (http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_narrowbrief_SC04.html).

Other races make less, on average, regardless of the language they speak - than White counterparts. That's what should be focused on ... not this smoke and mirrors shit about what language they speak.

[theguy77]

Often, in Conservative areas, schools get hit with a lot of backlash if they try to implement Spanish-education. For native born citizens of immigrant parents, most of them already speak English pretty well, though. Their parents likely don't have a desire to have what you consider a good job anyway, and come over in order to simply make money and support their families, which conditions in their home countries don't really allow.

i mean, conditions might be better here than in mexico, but that still doesn't make them favorable, especially not when you compare their priveleges here to a citizen's. this country simply does not accomodate them as well as it should.

A. That's horribly stereotypical and racist.

i'm not stereotyping shit. i didn't say they all had to live like that, just that i've seen that many do and can hardly remember families of american citizens living the same way. but yeah, i'm racist. i hate my own ancestors (oh yeah did i tell you, i have hispanic ethnicity on both sides of my family). i think i'm "above" them becuase of that.

give me a fucking break.

B. Who says that's a "better" life? You? Who the fuck are you?

are you seriously going to bring that logic in here? that's so pretentiously rhetorical it's incredible. you think that a family would cramp 15 fucking people into a tiny house because they WANTED to?

C. Most immigrants return to Mexico during the winters and such when there isn't farm work to be done. Because of the exchange rate, they often have big houses and multiple cars.

okay, cool, then i'm glad for them that they can make their lives work that way. but that doesn't mean that conditions are good for people who want to live here permanently without speaking english.

D. You're attitude is why America is falling behind the rest of the world rapidly. Why are you diminishing people for wanting to work hard?

i'm not diminishing anybody except you and your idiotic defensiveness. i was saying that if they HAVE to work harder to support themselves, then their conditions in society aren't as favorable. where the fuck are you getting these assertions about "my attitude"?

[Manicapathy]

I can see a point in what he's saying, and yea, 12 languages in Alabama seems like a little much to me, and I also do believe that if someone is going to live here, they should at least a basic understanding of the language, but that policy of his seems a little harsh to me. English, Spanish......well, that's all I can really think of that it would be needed in.

[theguy77]

50% of the manufacturing jobs are by non-English speakers.

The income for that kind of job: between 35-70k (http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_compresult_national_SC16000079 .html).

i'll be honest, that is a surprising income. 2 people working in manufacturing means middle class lifestyle.

PS: 1.6 million: The number of Hispanic-owned businesses in 2002.
this doesn't mean all of them are making a lot of money, but the fact that there are 1.6 million of them STILL surviving and not gone out of business does still say something.

alright, i concede. however, it still kind of sucks that their range of possible jobs is limited.

[Jason Tate]

Playing around with that site:

"Metal grinders" make $32,734 a year.

That's more than my friends make in office jobs.

[loveisdead]

This thread was one hell of a read.

[rawesome]

i'm not stereotyping shit. i didn't say they all had to live like that, just that i've seen that many do and can hardly remember families of american citizens living the same way. but yeah, i'm racist. i hate my own ancestors (oh yeah did i tell you, i have hispanic ethnicity on both sides of my family). i think i'm "above" them becuase of that.

give me a fucking break.
No shit? Well, I'm glad your ancestors took the time to buy Rosetta Stone and learn perfect English before they came over.


are you seriously going to bring that logic in here? that's so pretentiously rhetorical it's incredible. you think that a family would cramp 15 fucking people into a tiny house because they WANTED to?
You make it seem as if they are somehow unhappy or miserable because of that. I'm sure it's not comfortable, but it's also not atypical. Most families in Mexico all live in houses together, so it's nothing usual. More importantly, most immigrants I know or have read about appreciate having the opportunities they get by being here and don't mind that they don't live a terribly posh lifestyle. Simply because you like to have your own space because of the way you were raised doesn't mean that everyone lives like that.



okay, cool, then i'm glad for them that they can make their lives work that way. but that doesn't mean that conditions are good for people who want to live here permanently without speaking english.
It's ridiculous to think that anyone would actually want to live here without speaking English, as opposed to simply not knowing English before they came over. I highly doubt that any immigrant who lives here year-round doesn't know any English, and doubt even more that they would somehow go out of their way to not learn it.



i'm not diminishing anybody except you and your idiotic defensiveness. i was saying that if they HAVE to work harder to support themselves, then their conditions in society aren't as favorable. where the fuck are you getting these assertions about "my attitude"?
Yeah, and I'm saying that it is silly to think that one's life is somehow unfavorable because they have to work hard. My point is that we should all be willing to work hard without looking at that as some kind of punishment. I mean, I get where you're coming from here, and obviously I would like to just be able to play video games and read all day, but that's just not how it works for most people. I mean, you're apparently in a band and I'm sure you work hard, do you think that's a bad thing? Would you think another band is better because their parents were loaded and bought them all of their instruments and some studio time and auto-tune?

[Chromefox]

Language divide hasn't worked so well for us and Quebec. :-(

[Jason Tate]

i'll be honest, that is a surprising income. 2 people working in manufacturing means middle class lifestyle.


this doesn't mean all of them are making a lot of money, but the fact that there are 1.6 million of them STILL surviving and not gone out of business does still say something.

alright, i concede. however, it still kind of sucks that their range of possible jobs is limited.
The main thing is that I just don't see a reasonable reason to force people to be like everyone else ... no matter what the consequences may be. I think personal choice is a good thing. People can choose to learn English if they think it'll better their lives (good money that it could).

[Love As Arson]

If people studied the English language, they'd voluntarily give it up; it's pretty ugly and clumsy.

[Adrian Villagomez]

You could argue that most US-born people in Alabama don't know how to speak English anywaysHaha too good.

[Adrian Villagomez]

If people studied the English language, they'd voluntarily give it up; it's pretty ugly and clumsy.Seriously.

There, their, they're. "Read" pronounced ("Reed" or "Red"). I'm not very good at speaking Spanish, but its basic rules are so simple compared to the English jumble.

[theguy77]

No shit? Well, I'm glad your ancestors took the time to buy Rosetta Stone and learn perfect English before they came over.

You make it seem as if they are somehow unhappy or miserable because of that. I'm sure it's not comfortable, but it's also not atypical. Most families in Mexico all live in houses together, so it's nothing usual. More importantly, most immigrants I know or have read about appreciate having the opportunities they get by being here and don't mind that they don't live a terribly posh lifestyle. Simply because you like to have your own space because of the way you were raised doesn't mean that everyone lives like that.

It's ridiculous to think that anyone would actually want to live here without speaking English, as opposed to simply not knowing English before they came over. I highly doubt that any immigrant who lives here year-round doesn't know any English, and doubt even more that they would somehow go out of their way to not learn it.

Yeah, and I'm saying that it is silly to think that one's life is somehow unfavorable because they have to work hard. My point is that we should all be willing to work hard without looking at that as some kind of punishment. I mean, I get where you're coming from here, and obviously I would like to just be able to play video games and read all day, but that's just not how it works for most people. I mean, you're apparently in a band and I'm sure you work hard, do you think that's a bad thing? Would you think another band is better because their parents were loaded and bought them all of their instruments and some studio time and auto-tune?

i see what you're saying with all of this and understand. thanks for clarifying, sorry i attacked you, i just got a little defensive to you thinking i had a racist attitude.

[Machu505]

Language divide hasn't worked so well for us and Quebec. :-(
Québécois French is so cool. It preserves all the little parts of regular French that have since been invaded by English loanwords.

[theguy77]

The main thing is that I just don't see a reasonable reason to force people to be like everyone else ... no matter what the consequences may be. I think personal choice is a good thing. People can choose to learn English if they think it'll better their lives (good money that it could).

yeah, i see where you're coming from. good discussion, even if both of us got a little irritated with each other.

[saysmydoctor]

If people studied the English language, they'd voluntarily give it up; it's pretty ugly and clumsy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyjafjallaj%C3%B6kull

Look at that. C'monn.

[Chromefox]

Québécois French is so cool. It preserves all the little parts of regular French that have since been invaded by English loanwords. I'd love for Quebec to keep their language. I'd love to have had a teacher who wasn't inept and could have taught it to me in grade school. I'd also love for Quebec and Canada to stop hating one another, and to want to be a single country.

[rawesome]

i see what you're saying with all of this and understand. thanks for clarifying, sorry i attacked you, i just got a little defensive to you thinking i had a racist attitude.
It's okay. I tend to come off as aggressive, even thought I never intended on really arguing in the first place.

Sorry.

[Love As Arson]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyjafjallaj%C3%B6kull

Look at that. C'monn.
Iceland gets a pass due to Sigur Ros.

[georgedcc]

Seriously.

There, their, they're. "Read" pronounced ("Reed" or "Red"). I'm not very good at speaking Spanish, but its basic rules are so simple compared to the English jumble.

Ha fuck yes! The English language is a pain in the arse to learn. There are so many words spelled the same but pronounced differently or pronounced the same but spelled differently, I'm surprised so many people have bothered to learn it.

We'll all be speaking Chinese in a hundred years anyway...

[saysmydoctor]

Iceland gets a pass due to Sigur Ros.
Fair enough haha

[Jason Tate]

yeah, i see where you're coming from. good discussion, even if both of us got a little irritated with each other.

Ditto. Sorry if I was a dick. Didn't mean to be. Maybe we'll have instant translating devices soon and make this a moot point.

[Chromefox]

Babel fishes.

[phillipjacob]

for some reason i can just picture borat standing there waving a little american flag saying something like "me like american, where is pamela?"

[saysmydoctor]

We shouldn't have built that damn tower to heaven.

[CTMarshall]

Damn it. Does my home state have to give me another reason to hate it? Honestly, no one with a brain will vote for this guy, but, sadly, not many people have a brain here. I really really hope he doesn't become governor. He's almost as bad as Roy Moore.

[pshh]

s0Bvm72w5sg

my friend made a parody of his commercial, see it here

[ReadyForAction]

While it would be a good idea for people moving here to learn English, forcing someone to do that is unconstitutional. just sayin

[Aperi Oculos]

I think it is a little retarded we're a country of people that will drop out of Spanish II because we don't want to do the work of learning a new language yet we come up with ideas for legislation such as this.

I mean even with maybe 7 years of studying a language you will be able to misinterpret your second language on a test. This is why we have it available it different languages. Even if the citizens are familiar with English they can still take the tests in the language in which they are most comfortable with.

[sdbrown]

Really, how many transitions are needed in a 30-second spot?! God, at one point he even steps into the shadows in front of the camera?! What a terrible ad.


Haha, near the end I had that old spice commercial in my head "Look down, back up!"

[samsara]

oh dear, how will someone whose native language is Spanish be able to understand these complicated English road signs!

http://rylish.usu.edu/courses/mobility/images/road_signs.jpg

That actually got made me really nauseated.

[sdbrown]

I've never even seen half those signs. The ones I'd be more worried about would be construction signs noting work crews ahead, or the ones saying a certain lane is closed. Those pictograph ones aren't hard, but seeing "RIGHT LANE CLOSES IN HALF A MILE" could be difficult, especially on a highway traveling 60 mph. I know I'd have trouble reading that in Spanish quickly.

[<*)))><]

I've never even seen half those signs. The ones I'd be more worried about would be construction signs noting work crews ahead, or the ones saying a certain lane is closed. Those pictograph ones aren't hard, but seeing "RIGHT LANE CLOSES IN HALF A MILE" could be difficult, especially on a highway traveling 60 mph. I know I'd have trouble reading that in Spanish quickly.
Id be surprised if most people are doing 60mph on the highway. On my way to class this morning I got stuck in standstill traffic because some idiot was doing 120 in a construction zone. To make this relate better to the thread he was Hispanic but I assume he spoke English because he is in my English class.

[catherinexhimel]

Pretty sure that the cost isn't much. I imagine they have a database of documents in their computers for all the different languages they offer (maybe a handful of English and Spanish ones laying around) and they just print the other languages when necessary.

I think if you live in America, you should learn English to make it easier on you, but to deny someone something because they don't know English is extremely racist and egotistical.

I think that everyone who lives in America should speak English. We need a common ground. If we're to say, come from Mexico and only speak Spanish or come from Canada and only speak French, how are we supposed to communicate? You wouldn't move to Russia without learning Russian. It's not racist nor is it egotistical to expect people in our country to speak the language majority of people speak.

[caveBEAR]

I think that everyone who lives in America should speak English. We need a common ground. If we're to say, come from Mexico and only speak Spanish or come from Canada and only speak French, how are we supposed to communicate? You wouldn't move to Russia without learning Russian. It's not racist nor is it egotistical to expect people in our country to speak the language majority of people speak.

Says who?

[Jason Tate]

I think that everyone who lives in America should speak English. We need a common ground. If we're to say, come from Mexico and only speak Spanish or come from Canada and only speak French, how are we supposed to communicate? You wouldn't move to Russia without learning Russian. It's not racist nor is it egotistical to expect people in our country to speak the language majority of people speak.
Uh, it's exactly that.

[catherinexhimel]

Says who?


My dad who worked in Russia for three years. You shouldn't move to another country without learning their language because that makes you the selfish one.

[catherinexhimel]

Uh, it's exactly that.

How is that egotistical at all?

[caveBEAR]

My dad who worked in Russia for three years. You shouldn't move to another country without learning their language because that makes you the selfish one.

Oh, and here I was, stupidly thinking that sometimes people flee Hispanic countries with a little more haste than an American planning a move to Russia. Silly me.

:rolleyes:

You're aware of the conditions in the countries some of these immigrants flee from, correct? Sometimes, time is not on their side.

[catherinexhimel]

Oh, and here I was, stupidly thinking that sometimes people flee Hispanic countries with a little more haste than an American planning a move to Russia. Silly me.

:rolleyes:

You're aware of the conditions in the countries some of these immigrants flee from, correct? Sometimes, time is not on their side.

My dad didn't want to move to Russia. He was forced to by the army. Everyone in his unit studied Russian by choice a year in advance in Germany.

If time's an issue, that's fine. But the immigrants who've been living here for like five years and can only say a few sentences are completely ridiculous. That's not even trying to adapt to our society.

[Jason Tate]

How is that egotistical at all?
Because it assumes you know what's best. It's an indifference to the well-being of others; selfish. Stop telling people what they need to do with their lives.

[Jason Tate]

My dad didn't want to move to Russia. He was forced to by the army. Everyone in his unit studied Russian by choice a year in advance in Germany.

If time's an issue, that's fine. But the immigrants who've been living here for like five years and can only say a few sentences are completely ridiculous. That's not even trying to adapt to our society.
Ah, it only took a few posts for your thinly veiled racism to pop out. Why, may I ask, is anyone in any need to "adapt to our society"?

[<*)))><]

Oh, and here I was, stupidly thinking that sometimes people flee Hispanic countries with a little more haste than an American planning a move to Russia. Silly me.

:rolleyes:

You're aware of the conditions in the countries some of these immigrants flee from, correct? Sometimes, time is not on their side.
So it is okay for people to not learn our language when they are in our country but if we go to their country we have to learn theirs?

[caveBEAR]

So it is okay for people to not learn our language when they are in our country but if we go to their country we have to learn theirs?

No, I don't think anyone should be forced to learn any countries language just because they live there. It would help them in their day to day lives, of course, but people should speak in the language they feel comfortable speaking in.

[reckoner]

There's a new bigot everyday...

[caveBEAR]

My dad didn't want to move to Russia. He was forced to by the army. Everyone in his unit studied Russian by choice a year in advance in Germany.

If time's an issue, that's fine. But the immigrants who've been living here for like five years and can only say a few sentences are completely ridiculous. That's not even trying to adapt to our society.

Why do they need to adapt to our society? Why can't they keep their own culture, norms, language, etc.?

[Jason Tate]

So it is okay for people to not learn our language when they are in our country but if we go to their country we have to learn theirs?
We don't have a national language. What's this "our" language?

No tenemos un idioma nacional. ¿Qué es esto "nuestro" idioma?

[caveBEAR]

There's a new bigot everyday...

Keeps things entertaining, at least. Unfortunately, it's at the cost of Americas soul!!!

Ha ha, just kidding, I'll leave the hyperbole and sweeping generalizations to the bigots.

[<*)))><]

No, I don't think anyone should be forced to learn any countries language just because they live there. It would help them in their day to day lives, of course, but people should speak in the language they feel comfortable speaking in.
I think it is kind of rude go to a country and not knowing the language. A few months ago I went to Spain knowing very little spanish and people did not like speaking to me in my language in their country. If you stay in a country where everyone speaks french you have to make an attemp to learn, because you have to follow the culture of the society.

[caveBEAR]

We don't have a national language. What's this "our" language?

No tenemos un idioma nacional. ¿Qué es esto "nuestro" idioma?

<*)))>< tienes pene pequeño.

[caveBEAR]

I think it is kind of rude go to a country and not knowing the language. A few months ago I went to Spain knowing very little spanish and people did not like speaking to me in my language in their country. If you stay in a country where everyone speaks french you have to make an attemp to learn, because you have to follow the culture of the society.

Of course you could call it rude, and it probably is rude to not learn a country's main language. However, if we could change people's behavior simply because it was 'rude', I wouldn't be having rages and panic attacks on the highway, would I?

[<*)))><]

We don't have a national language. What's this "our" language?

No tenemos un idioma nacional. ¿Qué es esto "nuestro" idioma?
We don't have a national language but it is no secret that business is conducted in english. I don't care if you speak your native language at home or to your friends but when you are trying to buy something, or asking for help use english please. Last week I got a call at my job from a person who was speaking spanish and I assume he was asking for our hours of operation but I couldn't understand spanish so I hung up.

[<*)))><]

Of course you could call it rude, and it probably is rude to not learn a country's main language. However, if we could change people's behavior simply because it was 'rude', I wouldn't be having rages and panic attacks on the highway, would I?
It isn't changing people behavior it is changing what their behavior sounds like, after all isn't language what we use to communicate and if we can't communicate what is the point?
edit: keep your pruis in the slow lane by the way.

[caveBEAR]

It isn't changing people behavior it is changing what their behavior sounds like, after all isn't language what we use to communicate and if we can't communicate what is the point?

Alright, then you go learn Spanish. I mean, if you're that concerned about communication...

[caveBEAR]

edit: keep your pruis in the slow lane by the way.

I don't drive a Prius, and the speed at which shitty drivers are driving is usually the least of my worries. It's the texting and eating while changing iPod tunes that gets me.

Real creative, by the way, opinions on the left = Prius. You must eat up Leno's routines.

[<*)))><]

Alright, then you go learn Spanish. I mean, if you're that concerned about communication...
Why should I put the effort if they won't? At my local Mcdonalds they have a sign that says "we will not accept orders in spanish" because the workers couldn't understand and often got the order wrong.

[Jason Tate]

We don't have a national language but it is no secret that business is conducted in english.
How do you figure? Do you not have "Se Hablas Espanol" signs where you live? Business is conducted in a variety of languages. English being predominate doesn't mean it's not conducted in a variety of other languages.

I don't care if you speak your native language at home or to your friends but when you are trying to buy something, or asking for help use english please. Last week I got a call at my job from a person who was speaking spanish and I assume he was asking for our hours of operation but I couldn't understand spanish so I hung up.
Just a brilliant business decision there. Turning away the fastest growing market in America. Well played.

[<*)))><]

I don't drive a Prius, and the speed at which shitty drivers are driving is usually the least of my worries. It's the texting and eating while changing iPod tunes that gets me.

Real creative, by the way, opinions on the left = Prius. You must eat up Leno's routines.
In Florida lets not forget the old people that can't see.

[caveBEAR]

Why should I put the effort if they won't? At my local Mcdonalds they have a sign that says "we will not accept orders in spanish" because the workers couldn't understand and often got the order wrong.

Cool. That's a private business deciding that they will only do business in one language.

The Federal Government does not get to decide which language to offer driving tests in. That's fucking racist.

[<*)))><]

How do you figure? Do you not have "Se Hablas Espanol" signs where you live? Business is conducted in a variety of languages. English being predominate doesn't mean it's not conducted in a variety of other languages.


Just a brilliant business decision there. Turning away the fastest growing market in America. Well played.
No Se Habla espanol signs where I live. So because the US dollar is predominate I'm gonna start paying in Yen. What do you want me to do get out a spanish to english dictionary so I can help him, while I have other costumers to help? I work with a man who came from columbia he been in America for about 15 years he speaks English, but he always trys to learn new words. I don't ask for everyone to have a master in english but enough so they can order, ask a simple question or understand a sign. I don't think that is unreasonible.

[<*)))><]

Cool. That's a private business deciding that they will only do business in one language.

The Federal Government does not get to decide which language to offer driving tests in. That's fucking racist.
It would be racist if it said " only white people may take this test".

[caveBEAR]

It would be racist if it said " only white people may take this test".

No, it's racist to only offer a driving test in English. Did you know that most people who don't speak English as their first language hear themselves think in their head in their native tongue? Why should they have to translate the test back and forth (when you sure as shit don't have to) to ascertain whether they know they exact same things as you?

[Jason Tate]

No Se Habla espanol signs where I live. So because the US dollar is predominate I'm gonna start paying in Yen. What do you want me to do get out a spanish to english dictionary so I can help him, while I have other costumers to help? I work with a man who came from columbia he been in America for about 15 years he speaks English, but he always trys to learn new words. I don't ask for everyone to have a master in english but enough so they can order, ask a simple question or understand a sign. I don't think that is unreasonible.
We have a national currency. We don't have a national language.

What is wrong with you?

[<*)))><]

No, it's racist to only offer a driving test in English. Did you know that most people who don't speak English as their first language hear themselves think in their head in their native tongue? Why should they have to translate the test back and forth (when you sure as shit don't have to) to ascertain whether they know they exact same things as you?
Why do you bold random stuff it doesn't help your point if you even made a point in that post. Driving exam test are pretty easy it is mostly pictures and you point them out, I'm pretty sure most people can pass without being an english major. If the signs are in english they should know what they mean or do want every sign to be in every language so if so it is fair for everyone? For now on I want my French II class to be in english because I think in english.

[Jason Tate]

Why do you bold random stuff it doesn't help your point if you even made a point in that post. Driving exam test are pretty easy it is mostly pictures and you point them out, I'm pretty sure most people can pass without being an english major. If the signs are in english they should know what they mean or do want every sign to be in every language so if so it is fair for everyone? For now on I want my French II class to be in english because I think in english.
You're done. No reason to have the same argument again.

[caveBEAR]

Why do you bold random stuff it doesn't help your point if you even made a point in that post. Driving exam test are pretty easy it is mostly pictures and you point them out, I'm pretty sure most people can pass without being an english major. If the signs are in english they should know what they mean or do want every sign to be in every language so if so it is fair for everyone? For now on I want my French II class to be in english because I think in english.

I agree with Jason. You're either too dense to understand or just trying to be irritating. You're such an addition to these forums. (<-- Look at the random bolding)

[catherinexhimel]

Ah, it only took a few posts for your thinly veiled racism to pop out. Why, may I ask, is anyone in any need to "adapt to our society"?

Oh, so now I'm racist because I think that everyone in a country should speak a common language? I meant adapt to our society language-wise. Jesus christ.

[catherinexhimel]

Why do they need to adapt to our society? Why can't they keep their own culture, norms, language, etc.?


I meant adopt to our culture language-wise, seeing as that's what I've been talking about.

[caveBEAR]

I meant adopt to our culture language-wise, seeing as that's what I've been talking about.

Ah, well you may want to say that instead of;

That's not even trying to adapt to our society

I still don't agree with you, for reasons why, please see my responses in this thread.

[Jason Tate]

Oh, so now I'm racist because I think that everyone in a country should speak a common language? I meant adapt to our society language-wise. Jesus christ.
But the immigrants who've been living here for like five years and can only say a few sentences are completely ridiculous. That's not even trying to adapt to our society.

That's what you said.

[catherinexhimel]

I think it is kind of rude go to a country and not knowing the language. A few months ago I went to Spain knowing very little spanish and people did not like speaking to me in my language in their country. If you stay in a country where everyone speaks french you have to make an attemp to learn, because you have to follow the culture of the society.


This is exactly what I was trying to say.

[Jason Tate]

This is exactly what I was trying to say.
We know. He's an idiot too.

[Machu505]

Actually an English-speaker would be pretty well-off in France, since learning a second language is so encouraged there.

[loveisdead]

We know. He's an idiot too.

So true.

[catherinexhimel]

But the immigrants who've been living here for like five years and can only say a few sentences are completely ridiculous. That's not even trying to adapt to our society.

That's what you said.


California and Texas are the two states with the highest percentage of people who speak little to no English. Maybe you don't see this because you live in Oregon, which is relatively in the middle on the only-English list of states. Maybe I'm a little biased towards the side of everybody in America should speak English in this debate, because I see people all the time that speak no English and try to live life normally. It doesn't work. All cashiers don't speak English and another language. Majority of the people who don't speak English in Texas become janitors, construction workers, garbage men, or lawn crew men. Why? Because they can't communicate with the people of our country who speak the language of the majority. Does that make me a racist bitch for saying it? Hell no. That's just how it is, and in America, if you want to do anything, you need to speak English. End of story.

[catherinexhimel]

We know. He's an idiot too.


So now I'm an idiot for thinking this? What the fuck makes you think that from talking to me once?

[Jason Tate]

So now I'm an idiot for thinking this? What the fuck makes you think that from talking to me once?
It's pretty obvious.

[Jason Tate]

California and Texas are the two states with the highest percentage of people who speak little to no English. Maybe you don't see this because you live in Oregon, which is relatively in the middle on the only-English list of states. Maybe I'm a little biased towards the side of everybody in America should speak English in this debate, because I see people all the time that speak no English and try to live life normally. It doesn't work. All cashiers don't speak English and another language. Majority of the people who don't speak English in Texas become janitors, construction workers, garbage men, or lawn crew men. Why? Because they can't communicate with the people of our country who speak the language of the majority. Does that make me a racist bitch for saying it? Hell no. That's just how it is, and in America, if you want to do anything, you need to speak English. End of story.
Yes. Yes it does.

[Jason Tate]

So true.
Almost comical to watch a 16 year old tell others how to "make it" in America.

[catherinexhimel]

Yes. Yes it does.


Oh, sorry I didn't know that stating a fact has something to do with being racist.



That's like saying... "In 1968, Martin Luther King Jr was assassinated which caused mass riots." "Dude, you're racist."

[Jason Tate]

Oh, sorry I didn't know that stating a fact has something to do with being racist.



That's like saying... "In 1968, Martin Luther King Jr was assassinated which caused mass riots." "Dude, you're racist."
It's not a fact, nor is it relevant. Why do you care what profession people are in? Sound like jobs to me. Doing more for the state than your ass is.

Keep stereotyping. This level of ignorance is fun to watch.

[catherinexhimel]

It's not a fact, nor is it relevant. Why do you care what profession people are in? Sound like jobs to me. Doing more for the state than your ass is.

Keep stereotyping. This level of ignorance is fun to watch.

I don't care at all. I'm just saying that that's what happens when you don't learn the language. Not my fault. I speak English and German. But I'll have the common courtesy to only live in America, England, or Germany so I won't be one of those rude immigrants that just doesn't learn the language.

[loveisdead]

I don't care at all. I'm just saying that that's what happens when you don't learn the language. Not my fault. I speak English and German. But I'll have the common courtesy to only live in America, England, or Germany so I won't be one of those rude immigrants that just doesn't learn the language.

Rude immigrants? Are you fucking kidding me? Go reread what you just wrote and then slap yourself in the face.

[catherinexhimel]

Rude immigrants? Are you fucking kidding me? Go reread what you just wrote and then slap yourself in the face.


You know what, I'll just go ahead now and take this a step farther. I'd like to know why we're the only country that's so fucking tolerant of illegal immigrants. Have your babies here with no medical insurance, don't speak english, live illegally. Thanks for making hard working people pay for you. Rude.

[Jason Tate]

I don't care at all. I'm just saying that that's what happens when you don't learn the language. Not my fault. I speak English and German. But I'll have the common courtesy to only live in America, England, or Germany so I won't be one of those rude immigrants that just doesn't learn the language.
And ... again ... please tell me why "what happens" is something you have a problem with. You don't like construction workers?

[Jason Tate]

Reason #34440 I hate Texas.

[loveisdead]

You know what, I'll just go ahead now and take this a step farther. I'd like to know why we're the only country that's so fucking tolerant of illegal immigrants. Have your babies here with no medical insurance, don't speak english, live illegally. Thanks for making hard working people pay for you. Rude.

Ya know, your parents, grandparents or great grandparents were rude immigrants who came here to try and make theirs and their family's life better. Don't feel bad, my family is guilty of it too. Hell, even Jason Tate's older relatives were rude illegal immigrants.

The point is this country was founded on the principle that anyone who is willing to come here and put forth an effort should be more than welcome.

[loveisdead]

Reason #34440 I hate Texas.

Rude immigrants. Rude fucking immigrants. My mind is seriously blown that she just said that.

[catherinexhimel]

And ... again ... please tell me why "what happens" is something you have a problem with. You don't like construction workers?


That doesn't bother me. I just think it's common courtesy for people coming into a country to speak the language that most people speak in that country.

[loveisdead]

That doesn't bother me. I just think it's common courtesy for people coming into a country to speak the language that most people speak in that country.

We don't have a national language. End of story.

[Jason Tate]

You know what, I'll just go ahead now and take this a step farther. I'd like to know why we're the only country that's so fucking tolerant of illegal immigrants. Have your babies here with no medical insurance, don't speak english, live illegally. Thanks for making hard working people pay for you. Rude.
For one, we're not the only country "fucking tolerant" for immigrants. I still fail to see what language they speak as having any relevance, there are plenty of LEGAL immigrants here that don't speak english as well. Do you wanna kick them out too? And over two thirds illegal immigrants pay taxes (Medicare, Social Security and personal income taxes).

Next.

[catherinexhimel]

Ya know, your parents, grandparents or great grandparents were rude immigrants who came here to try and make theirs and their family's life better. Don't feel bad, my family is guilty of it too. Hell, even Jason Tate's older relatives were rude illegal immigrants.

The point is this country was founded on the principle that anyone who is willing to come here and put forth an effort should be more than welcome.


My grandparents came from Germany and then they learned English to get jobs. Different story from immigrants who come to America with no goal of learning English.

[Jason Tate]

That doesn't bother me. I just think it's common courtesy for people coming into a country to speak the language that most people speak in that country.
Learn Spanish. It'll be the language most spoken in this country quite soon. It's common courtesy.

[Jason Tate]

My grandparents came from Germany and then they learned English to get jobs. Different story from immigrants who come to America with no goal of learning English.
Stop caring what people who have nothing to do with you want to do. Why do you care so much if they don't learn english? So what.

[loveisdead]

My grandparents came from Germany and then they learned English to get jobs. Different story from immigrants who come to America with no goal of learning English.

Your grandparents didn't come here to learn English. They couldve done that in Germany. They came here to try and have a better life. The same reason every current immigrant is coming here. Your grandparents are just as "rude" as any other immigrant, regardless of the language spoken.

[catherinexhimel]

We don't have a national language. End of story.


In the 2000 Census: 92% of people living in America speak English.

[Jason Tate]

In the 2000 Census: 92% of people living in America speak English.
So why do you have such a problem with the 8% that don't? Extremely small %, comparatively. So who fucking cares about that 8%. Who cares if it's 50%? Why does it matter to you?

This statistic hurts your argument.

[loveisdead]

In the 2000 Census: 92% of people living in America speak English.

Cool. That's how things get declared now? Fuck all this studying of law in college and I missed that? God dammit

[Jason Tate]

Cool. That's how things get declared now? Fuck all this studying of law in college and I missed that? God dammit
85% of people in America like Hondas. Shut down the rest.

[loveisdead]

85% of people in America like Hondas. Shut down the rest.

Seriously. Rude people.

[catherinexhimel]

Learn Spanish. It'll be the language most spoken in this country quite soon. It's common courtesy.

And then I'll move because I don't speak Spanish nor do I have the desire to. If more people start speaking Spanish than English, I promise you I won't be here.

[loveisdead]

And then I'll move because I don't speak Spanish nor do I have the desire to. If more people start speaking Spanish than English, I promise you I won't be here.

If that's the case then I'll be counting down the days. America could use less stupid.

[catherinexhimel]

So why do you have such a problem with the 8% that don't? Extremely small %, comparatively. So who fucking cares about that 8%. Who cares if it's 50%? Why does it matter to you?

This statistic hurts your argument.


Holy shit. I don't have a problem with people who are learning English. I have a problem with people who aren't attempting to learn. I don't know how else to make myself clear about that.

[Jason Tate]

And then I'll move because I don't speak Spanish nor do I have the desire to. If more people start speaking Spanish than English, I promise you I won't be here.
Keep showing those true colors.

[catherinexhimel]

Reason #34440 I hate Texas.

Yankees are such bitches, seriously.

[Jason Tate]

Holy shit. I don't have a problem with people who are learning English. I have a problem with people who aren't attempting to learn. I don't know how else to make myself clear about that.
I know. Which would be, according to your stat, 8% of the population. Why do you care about them? Why do you care if it's 50%? Why does it matter at all to you what other people do with their lives?

[Jason Tate]

Yankees are such bitches, seriously.
Yankees ... as in a native or inhabitant of the United States.

I thought those were the ones you were all up in their asses full of love? You don't like illegal immigrants, and you don't like natives either.

:rotfl:

[catherinexhimel]

Keep showing those true colors.

So, since I hung out with a kid from El Salvador today, does that make me racist against whites?!?

[GeeBee]

Holy shit. I don't have a problem with people who are learning English. I have a problem with people who aren't attempting to learn. I don't know how else to make myself clear about that.
Why don't you attempt to learn Spanish? You do know Americans are pretty much the only people in the world who only know one language, right?

[catherinexhimel]

Yankees ... as in a native or inhabitant of the United States.

I thought those were the ones you were all up in their asses full of love? You don't like illegal immigrants, and you don't like natives either.

:rotfl:


I like the dirty south, baby. Nice to know that our differences are so few.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

So, since I hung out with a kid from El Salvador today, does that make me racist against whites?!?

Would you prefer reformed immigration policy that would allow those crossing the border who wish to live and work here 100 percent citizenship within 6 months of entering? That's what's needed in this country. If someone wants to live here legally, we should allow them the most quickest and efficient process.

[catherinexhimel]

Why don't you attempt to learn Spanish? You do know Americans are pretty much the only people in the world who only know one language, right?

I don't only know one language. German + English = 2. And recently, I've started learning Russian. So, hopefully within the next ten years, that'll go up to 3.

[catherinexhimel]

Would you prefer reformed immigration policy that would allow those crossing the border who wish to live and work here 100 percent citizenship within 6 months of entering? That's what's needed in this country. If someone wants to live here legally, we should allow them the most quickest and efficient process.


If they can speak English, sure thing. Who cares.

[GeeBee]

I don't only know one language. German + English = 2. And recently, I've started learning Russian. So, hopefully within the next ten years, that'll go up to 3.

In that case, возвращайся на остров шлюх, расист.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

If they can speak English, sure thing. Who cares.

okay, so when it boils down to it, you prefer people in America to speak English to you. That's all I wanted to know. ;-)

[catherinexhimel]

In that case, возврашайся на остров шлюх, расист.


Yeah, I'm totally a racist. And I also have pet unicorns and go to Hogwarts.

[catherinexhimel]

okay, so when it boils down to it, you prefer people in America to speak English to you. That's all I wanted to know. ;-)


Mhmmm.

[GeeBee]

Yeah, I'm totally a racist. And I also have pet unicorns and go to Hogwarts.
Learn Russian, dipshit. It's like you're not even trying. "Racist" was the least of what I called you.

[catherinexhimel]

Learn Russian, dipshit. It's like you're not even trying. "Racist" was the least of what I called you.


Sorry I don't know what the fuck возврашайся means, because I started learning Russian in December. Island of whores? Oh noooo.

[caveBEAR]

That's like saying... "In 1968, Martin Luther King Jr was assassinated which caused mass riots." "Dude, you're racist."

Ha ha ha ha :lol: LOLWUT?!

This is fun to watch.

[GeeBee]

Sorry I don't know what the fuck возврашайся means, because I started learning Russian in December. Island of whores? Oh noooo.

Glad you're getting the point I'm making. How the fuck do YOU know who's "attempting" and who isn't? (поздравлаю с умением Гугл)

[Jason Tate]

I like the dirty south, baby. Nice to know that our differences are so few.
Is the south not in the United States all of a sudden?

[Jason Tate]

Glad you're getting the point I'm making. How the fuck do YOU know who's "attempting" and who isn't? (поздравлаю с умением Гугл)
Because, clearly, that thick accent and dark skin means ... not trying.

[loveisdead]

Is the south not in the United States all of a sudden?

Some are attempting to make that happen.

Briefly off topic but do we have a stand at bamboozle tomorrow?

[catherinexhimel]

Is the south not in the United States all of a sudden?

No it is, but I don't like Yankees. :-)

[catherinexhimel]

Because, clearly, that thick accent and dark skin means ... not trying.


Dude, fuck you. You're fucking ridiculous.

[GeeBee]

Because, clearly, that thick accent and dark skin means ... not trying.

Bolero tie and cowboy boots= not trying
Popped polo collar and volcom hat sideways = real 'merican.

Vote for Pedro.

[GeeBee]

Dude, fuck you. You're fucking ridiculous.
Wow. Get banned.

[loveisdead]

I'll defer to Jason since he's in the thread butttt something tells me this idiot is done here.