All American Canal on 60 Minutes

[DrStrong]

I was watching the 60 Minutes this past Sunday, they mentioned all of the drownings due to crossing the All American Canal. What are you're opinions regarding this? There is a lot of controversy as there are no immediate (if any) plans to add more safety lines/barricades/ladders to the canal. There have been over 550 deaths mostly due to Mexican Immigrants trying to cross over into the US.

You can go to this (http://www.allamericancanal.org/) website, to see what the future plans may be.

There was an interview with someone on the board of directors, which maintains the canal, asking questions regarding safely. Basically, the argument is that if people are willing to put themselves, and their families in danger, it is their own fault. There should not be any need to make precautions to enable something illegal to be more safe.

I am in agreeable with the people running the canal.

[Midget Pirates]

" Basically, the argument is that if people are willing to put themselves, and their families in danger, it is their own fault. There should not be any need to make precautions to enable something illegal to be more safe."

This.

[DrStrong]

" Basically, the argument is that if people are willing to put themselves, and their families in danger, it is their own fault. There should not be any need to make precautions to enable something illegal to be more safe."

This.
Care to elaborate?

Its wrong to let people die, i know this. But in this case, the people that run the canal arent letting people die. Should the government start putting water fountains in the desert?

[zachff]

Every year dozens of people trying to immigrate to the United States from Mexico attempt to swim across the canal, but most drown. Advocates for the immigrates have promoted the idea of stringing safety ropes across the canal for people to hang on and prevent drowning, but the board that oversees the canal has so far refused to string such ropes as they are concerned that it would encourage illegal immigration.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-American_Canal#cite_note-60_Minutes-1)
To date, over 550 people have drowned in the canal.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-American_Canal#cite_note-60_Minutes-1)


Just put the ropes in, or put ladders on the Mexico side so if they can't make it to the US they can at least go back.

[DrStrong]

Just put the ropes in, or put ladders on the Mexico side so if they can't make it to the US they can at least go back.
Agree.

[Jefferson Rank]

A life is a life. It doesn't make sense to disregard them because they're crossing the border.

[jeremyc]

Floaties

[ActionActionFan]

Just put the ropes in, or put ladders on the Mexico side so if they can't make it to the US they can at least go back.

Mexico should put the ropes in, not the US.

[ActionActionFan]

A life is a life. It doesn't make sense to disregard them because they're crossing the border.

They are doing an illegal act.

[zachff]

Mexico should put the ropes in, not the US.
The issue with this is that the canal is US-owned and I'm sure our government or the business that maintains the canal has to pay to get these bodies out, so why not install the ropes and defer the majority of that cost going forward.

1. The US has way more money to install these things than Mexico does
2. WTF does Mexico care if these people die because they aren't paying to remove their bodies at this point anyways

[Theseventhson]

They are doing an illegal act.

So their life doesn't matter because they were breaking the law?

[DrStrong]

So their life doesn't matter because they were breaking the law?
Would you feel sorry, or try to fight for the rights of a person breaking into your house, then falling down the stairs, breaking their neck?

[loveisdead]

They are doing an illegal act.

Plenty of people do illegal things. I smoked pot the other day. If a bear attacked me while I was smoking, should I also be disregarded?

[loveisdead]

Would you feel sorry, or try to fight for the rights of a person breaking into your house, then falling down the stairs, breaking their neck?

Do you mean the right to life? Yeah, I'd probably try and help the person live.

[DrStrong]

Plenty of people do illegal things. I smoked pot the other day. If a bear attacked me while I was smoking, should I also be disregarded?
You should realize that is a totally different scenario....

If you were taunting the bear, then got attacked...its your fault.

[Scrandon]

Ok so we say "No illegal immigration, but we know you can swim across right here and we're not gonna have anything to prevent it, in fact, here's a little something to make it easier for you."

That doesn't send the message that we really want people to stop crossing the border.

[DrStrong]

Do you mean the right to life? Yeah, I'd probably try and help the person live.
Ok, i'll word that differently...

Will you make sure you're house is accommodated for intruders? You'll be sacrificing your belongings in exchange to preserve the intruder's life.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

What about needle exchange programs? We provide clean needles as a precaution to people who use it to do an illegal act.

[loveisdead]

You should realize that is a totally different scenario....

If you were taunting the bear, then got attacked...its your fault.

I dunno why I used a bear as an example haha. Probably cause I was in the woods.

You hit me with your car. Even if it is my fault, should you drive away because I was high?

[DrStrong]

What about needle exchange programs? We provide clean needles as a precaution to people who use it to do an illegal act.
Because this country supports drug attics.

[paper halo]

They are doing an illegal act.

Ah. So next time you illegally download a movie, it'll be ok if you then fall off your chair and break your neck?

[loveisdead]

Ok, i'll word that differently...

Will you make sure you're house is accommodated for intruders? You'll be sacrificing your belongings in exchange to preserve the intruder's life.

No. That's ridiculous. These people aren't coming here to take our belongings or hurt us. They're trying to make a better life for themselves. Put the ropes in, illegals will likely gravitate towards them and be easier to be discovered by border patrol. Less deaths/less illegals coming here.

[loveisdead]

Ah. So next time you illegally download a movie, it'll be ok if you then fall off your chair and break your neck?

Haha, seriously.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

Because this country supports drug addicts.

fixed.

[DrStrong]

I dunno why I used a bear as an example haha. Probably cause I was in the woods.

You hit me with your car. Even if it is my fault, should you drive away because I was high?
haha, I know there are exceptions, but in this case, i thought it would have been straight forward.

The person in the car has something to do with your death, yea, and they should be held responsible. But in this case, the only persuasion to cross the canal is the person's own desire.

[Scrandon]

I dunno why I used a bear as an example haha. Probably cause I was in the woods.

You hit me with your car. Even if it is my fault, should you drive away because I was high?

Horrible analogy. It's not the U.S.'s fault that people die simply by having a canal.

[DrStrong]

No. That's ridiculous. These people aren't coming here to take our belongings or hurt us. They're trying to make a better life for themselves. Put the ropes in, illegals will likely gravitate towards them and be easier to be discovered by border patrol. Less deaths/less illegals coming here.
I know that was an extreme example, but i used it to prove my point.

The government would be contradicting itself if there were safety features on the US side of the canal.

[Scrandon]

I'm all for changing immigration policy to solve the problems we have, but this just sounds like it would perpetuate the current problem.

[Theseventhson]

Would you feel sorry, or try to fight for the rights of a person breaking into your house, then falling down the stairs, breaking their neck?

An illegal immigrant isn't threatening my livelihood. But no, I would not wish death upon someone breaking into my house.

[loveisdead]

I know that was an extreme example, but i used it to prove my point.

The government would be contradicting itself if there were safety features on the US side of the canal.

How would it be contradicting itself? Again, wouldn't the immigrants gravitate towards a rope for rest/whatever. And wouldn't that make it easier for border patrol to find them?

[ActionActionFan]

Ah. So next time you illegally download a movie, it'll be ok if you then fall off your chair and break your neck?

It's completely different because I am not making the decision to risk my life (knowing that I could die) when I download a movie.

[Scrandon]

How would it be contradicting itself? Again, wouldn't the immigrants gravitate towards a rope for rest/whatever. And wouldn't that make it easier for border patrol to find them?

It's a canal... How hard could it be as it is, I just doubt anyone is actually looking.

[DrStrong]

An illegal immigrant isn't threatening my livelihood. But no, I would not wish death upon someone breaking into my house.
Thats not what i was implying. I'm saying that if someone dies while breaking into your house, will you make sure to do things to prevent them from accidentally dying the next time they try to break in. You'de be allowing them to break into your house, and give them the opportunity to get away with it.
How would it be contradicting itself? Again, wouldn't the immigrants gravitate towards a rope for rest/whatever. And wouldn't that make it easier for border patrol to find them?
Well, for the most part, this government is anti-illegal immigrants, but also pro-life and do not support the death penalty. So why would the government go against their anti-illegal immigrant standpoint?

[loveisdead]

It's a canal... How hard could it be as it is, I just doubt anyone is actually looking.

Then there seems to be a bigger issue at hand, eh?

[Theseventhson]

Thats not what i was implying. I'm saying that if someone dies while breaking into your house, will you make sure to do things to prevent them from accidentally dying the next time they try to break in. You'de be allowing them to break into your house, and give them the opportunity to get away with it.
Yeah, I'd like to live in a house where you don't randomly die in it.

[perceptrons]

It's completely different because I am not making the decision to risk my life (knowing that I could die) when I download a movie.
Then insert something else. Let's say you were speeding, not even flagrantly. That is both illegal and a risk to your life.

[DrStrong]

Yeah, I'd like to live in a house where you don't randomly die in it.
Wow, you know there is no way to prevent an accident right? So what, if an intruder happens to fall down your stairs, is it your fault because you live in a two story house?

Come on, dude...You dont have to agree with me but you have to know what im trying to convey.

[perceptrons]

It's a canal... How hard could it be as it is, I just doubt anyone is actually looking.
Canals are actually extremely deadly due to certain currents in them and are basically impossible to get out of.

[saysmydoctor]

They are doing an illegal act.

It's completely different because I am not making the decision to risk my life (knowing that I could die) when I download a movie.
Just wanted to remind you of your original point.

[Scrandon]

Then there seems to be a bigger issue at hand, eh?

Obviously, just had to point out the mess that was being passed off as an argument.

[Scrandon]

Canals are actually extremely deadly due to certain currents in them and are basically impossible to get out of.

Ugh, that's not what I was talking about at all, but I'll let you slide this time.

[Theseventhson]

Wow, you know there is no way to prevent an accident right? So what, if an intruder happens to fall down your stairs, is it your fault because you live in a two story house?

Come on, dude...You dont have to agree with me but you have to know what im trying to convey.

There are plenty of ways to prevent an accident.

[DrStrong]

There are plenty of ways to prevent an accident.
Alright, just to make sure i know where you stand...

You're ok with an intruder successfully breaking into your house...as long as he makes it out unharmed and possibly without prosecution. Gotcha. And if he gets hurt in the process, you'll make sure to prevent the next guy from getting hurt.

[Theseventhson]

Alright, just to make sure i know where you stand...

You're ok with an intruder successfully breaking into your house...as long as he makes it out unharmed and possibly without prosecution. Gotcha. And if he gets hurt in the process, you'll make sure to prevent the next guy from getting hurt.

When did I say I was okay with someone breaking into my house?

[DrStrong]

When did I say I was okay with someone breaking into my house?
No, you didnt, but by making sure they can get away with it, is almost the same as letting it happen in the first place!

[Theseventhson]

No, you didnt, but by making sure they can get away with it, is almost the same as letting it happen in the first place!

I said I didn't want them to die.

[DrStrong]

I said I didn't want them to die.
I do understand what you're saying. I just find it hard to imagine someone making an effort to make an illegal act easier to accomplish.

[loveisdead]

No, you didnt, but by making sure they can get away with it, is almost the same as letting it happen in the first place!

What? Dude, you really missed the point.

[Scrandon]

In this case, preventing them from dying is helping them get away with it. Try to use your imagination a little.

[Theseventhson]

I do understand what you're saying. I just find it hard to imagine someone making an effort to make an illegal act easier to accomplish.

Because they have compassion for people striving for a better life?

[DrStrong]

What? Dude, you really missed the point.
I could care less if someone gets hurt/dies for breaking into my house. That is the mindset of most people who have their own house, and have a family.

[perceptrons]

I could care less if someone gets hurt/dies for breaking into my house. That is the mindset of most people who have their own house, and have a family.
A lot of people like an eye for an eye too, doesn't mean it's good. Most people tend to think we're not that barbaric.

[DrStrong]

A lot of people like an eye for an eye too, doesn't mean it's good.
Well, its not like im gonna set up traps at night just incase someone breaks in. But if someone happens to hurt themselves, due to their own actions, thats hardly my fault/concern.

[perceptrons]

Well, its not like im gonna set up traps at night just incase someone breaks in. But if someone happens to hurt themselves, due to their own actions, thats hardly my fault/concern.
So you couldn't care less if someone dies?

[DrStrong]

So you couldn't care less if someone dies?
Not if they broke into my house and put my family at risk.

I know this discussion if off topic, but shares a similar point.

Do you have your own house? gf/wife? Kids? See if your mind changes about these types of things when you actually have something to lose.

[perceptrons]

Not if they broke into my house and put my family at risk.

I know this discussion if off topic, but shares a similar point.

Do you have your own house? gf/wife? Kids? See if your mind changes about these types of things when you actually have something to lose.
I have 2 out of 3 and rent a place, does that count? I guess I just dislike it when people die, I would hope everyone does.

[DrStrong]

I have 2 out of 3 and rent a place, does that count? I guess I just like people to be alive.
Well yea, I'm renting a house also, but still, my family is there.

I know where your coming from, and i dont want to see people just die for no reason. But there comes a time where a person has to be held accountable for their actions, despite their motives.

[perceptrons]

Well yea, I'm renting a house also, but still, my family is there.

I know where your coming from, and i dont want to see people just die for no reason. But there comes a time where a person has to be held accountable for their actions, despite their motives.
Accountable = death is honky-dory?

[DrStrong]

Accountable = death is honky-dory?
I also dont feel sorry for people that commit suicide...are you going to be the polar opposite of that also?

[perceptrons]

I also dont feel sorry for people that commit suicide...are you going to be the polar opposite of that also?
Am I going to be against suicide? Yes, yes I am. Not all suicides of course, but definitely a large chunk of them.

I'm kind of confused as to why you threw that down like it would be weird for me not to be.

[DrStrong]

Am I going to be against suicide? Yes, yes I am. Not all suicides of course, but definitely a large chunk of them.
Alright, i think we can agree to disagree.

I believe that people, if doing dangerous things, despite the motive, should be held accountable for whatever the outcome may be. It is sad when people die because they were trying to have a better life for their family. But at the same time, these people should realize that what they're doing is dangerous. It should be of no surprise that some of them may perish.

[<*)))><]

They know the dangers of crossing a canal to get into this country they can suffer the consequence. But I guess we can spend the $10 and put a rope on the Mexican side, just in case one of them chickens out.

[perceptrons]

Alright, i think we can agree to disagree.

I believe that people, if doing dangerous things, despite the motive, should be held accountable for whatever the outcome may be. It is sad when people die because they were trying to have a better life for their family. But at the same time, these people should realize that what they're doing is dangerous. It should be of no surprise that some of them may perish.
So accountability trumps living for you? You don't think it would be better to try and work out a way to preserve accountability without losing so many lives?

[perceptrons]

They know the dangers of crossing a canal to get into this country they can suffer the consequence. But I guess we can spend the $10 and put a rope on the Mexican side, just in case one of them chickens out.
How do you know? Maybe they, like so many Americans, are unaware of how dangerous canals actually are.

[<*)))><]

How do you know? Maybe they, like so many Americans, are unaware of how dangerous canals actually are.
I'm sure most of the people who try to go threw the canal have heard it from other people and also heard the dangers. But come on swimming across a giant body of water sounds dangerous. Their are people who don't know gambling is favored against them, so should we give them their money back when they lose?

[DrStrong]

So accountability trumps living for you? You don't think it would be better to try and work out a way to preserve accountability without losing so many lives?
They shouldn't try cross the canal, plain and simple. Is trying to get into the country legally that overrated or whats the deal? I understand its difficult, but nothing is worth DELIBERATELY putting you and your family in harms way.
How do you know? Maybe they, like so many Americans, are unaware of how dangerous canals actually are.
Tell an uneducated person about a canal, he might not understand it...bring him to a canal and let him see it in person, I bet he will understand what it is very quickly.

[perceptrons]

I'm sure most of the people who try to go threw the canal have heard it from other people and also heard the dangers. But come on swimming across a giant body of water sounds dangerous. Their are people who don't know gambling is favored against them, so should we give them their money back when they lose?
You can't be sure and depending on where they cross, it isn't "a giant body of water." Giving them their money back would be like bringing people back to life. That is hardly the same as putting a couple things in place to stop people from dying in the first place.

[perceptrons]

They shouldn't try cross the canal, plain and simple. Is trying to get into the country legally that overrated or whats the deal? I understand its difficult, but nothing is worth DELIBERATELY putting you and your family in harms way.
I'm not going to get into the first part, but that is irrelevant anyway. Point being, yes what they're doing is stupid, but does that mean we shouldn't try and prevent their deaths?


Tell an uneducated person about a canal, he might not understand it...bring him to a canal and let him see it in person, I bet he will understand what it is very quickly.
How many canals have you seen? They aren't like raging rivers in a lot of places, yet are still extremely dangerous.

[<*)))><]

You can't be sure and depending on where they cross, it isn't "a giant body of water." Giving them their money back would be like bringing people back to life. That is hardly the same as putting a couple things in place to stop people from dying in the first place.
They are taking a risk, in hope for a better life. Maybe we should put sharks in the canal to make it even harder.

[Scrandon]

I'm not going to get into the first part, but that is irrelevant anyway. Point being, yes what they're doing is stupid, but does that mean we shouldn't try and prevent their deaths?


How many canals have you seen? They aren't like raging rivers in a lot of places, yet are still extremely dangerous.

Neither is a lake, but I don't try to go swim to the other side and hope I can make it.

They are taking a risk, in hope for a better life. Maybe we should put sharks in the canal to make it even harder.

Stop trolling the politics forum, dude. There's a forum for trolling, it's called PL. Haven't you learned this by now?

[<*)))><]

Neither is a lake, but I don't try to go swim to the other side and hope I can make it.



Stop trolling the politics forum, dude. There's a forum for trolling, it's called PL. Haven't you learned this by now?
I just feel they know the risk but we can give them a rope in case they change their mind so they can head back to their country. A rope cost at most $10 a fair price for a life.

[perceptrons]

Neither is a lake, but I don't try to go swim to the other side and hope I can make it.
http://photography.nationalgeographic.com/staticfiles/NGS/Shared/StaticFiles/Photography/Images/POD/a/all-american-canal-steinmetz-740948-sw.jpg

If you knew nothing of the dangers of canals, you don't think you might believe you could easily make it across this?

[Scrandon]

If you knew nothing of the dangers of canals, you don't think you might believe you could easily make it across this?

Ok, nice picture, but it's about two hundred feet wide, so... No I sure as fuck wouldn't.

[Roboman]

Haha, I didn't even know this canal existed, awesome. I'm going to have to agree with those saying that whoever tries to cross is taking their life into their own hands, and we therefore aren't obligated to help them out. Okay, maybe if they're 5 feet in front of you and you can see they're about to drown, then I could understand trying to help them, simply out of that human urge to help those in need. But in general, it's their problem for attempting something that is dangerous and that they don't have to do.

Personally, I'm kind of surprised no one in this thread so far has tried to relate this to the Berlin Wall. I know there was at least one widely publicized case where a young man tried crossing the no-man's land, got injured (I'm forget how), and was left there to bleed out.

[zion the lion]

Am I going to be against suicide? Yes, yes I am. Not all suicides of course, but definitely a large chunk of them.

I'm kind of confused as to why you threw that down like it would be weird for me not to be.

How the hell are you going to be against a large chunk of suicides and not just all of them. If you're going to be dumb enough to be against suicide you might as well make it a black and white situation and be against it across the board.

[Theseventhson]

No, like this

http://www.ivpressonline.com/content/articles/2009/06/07/local_news/news06-main.jpg

[Scrandon]

I just feel they know the risk but we can give them a rope in case they change their mind so they can head back to their country.

Yup totally dude, or better yet, we could make it some kind of a game show. It's time to play 'Hop that Border!'.

Yea and we'll all have a good time and forget that we are actually trying to prevent this shit from happening.

A rope cost at most $10 a fair price for a life.

Good Times

[perceptrons]

How the hell are you going to be against a large chunk of suicides and not just all of them. If you're going to be dumb enough to be against suicide you might as well make it a black and white situation and be against it across the board.
Because I think if a person of sound mind decides they would not like to be alive anymore, that's OK with me.

Anything else?

[Scrandon]

How the hell are you going to be against a large chunk of suicides and not just all of them. If you're going to be dumb enough to be against suicide you might as well make it a black and white situation and be against it across the board.

Yep, cause that's what all the smart people do who think really long and hard about issues... They make it into a black and white situation and everything has to fall into one category or the other, nice.

[DrStrong]

No, like this

http://www.ivpressonline.com/content/articles/2009/06/07/local_news/news06-main.jpg

Are you speaking of the fence?

Also incase people missed it... http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/30/60minutes/main6448631.shtml?tag=contentMain;c ontentBody

[Scrandon]

Really too many trolls for this to end well.

[DrStrong]

Really too many trolls for this to end well.
Yup.

[Theseventhson]

:rolleyes:

[Mibabalou]

let em drown

[DrStrong]

let em drown
Maybe not let them, that term conveys the message there is a possibility for some sort of intervention. Fact of the matter is, they're doing it to themselves, no one is encouraging any of them to cross.

[loveisdead]

let em drown

You're a huge piece of shit.

[Mibabalou]

You're a huge piece of shit.

we're all entitled to opinions ....

[Theseventhson]

And he's entitled to think you're a huge piece of shit......

[Mibabalou]

Maybe not let them, that term conveys the message there is a possibility for some sort of intervention. Fact of the matter is, they're doing it to themselves, no one is encouraging any of them to cross.

thats what i ment, im not forcing anyone to try and swim across

if i saw someone drowning i would always help them, but we should not instal something to help people get across

[perceptrons]

thats what i ment, im not forcing anyone to try and swim across

if i saw someone drowning i would always help them, but we should not instal something to help people get across
They wouldn't be put there to help them immigrate illegally, they would be put there to stop deaths. The wording is important.

[Mibabalou]

And he's entitled to think you're a huge piece of shit......

yep, im fine with that

[zion the lion]

Because I think if a person of sound mind decides they would not like to be alive anymore, that's OK with me.

Anything else?

Nope, so what does "of sound mind" mean to you?

[caveBEAR]

Fuck 'em. If you can't swim, I don't want you in Americuh.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

I'd been thinking about this, but I believe that if you want to enter this country, you should have to pass a physical challenge. An obstacle course for example. The last leg will of course be climbing the Aggro Crag!

http://web.mac.com/willie.morris/iWeb/Willie./Blog/B91D7C8B-ADB7-494E-BB11-4314A1F85D03_files/shapeimage_2.png

If you can pass that, then you are worthy of becoming a U.S. citizen.

http://web.mac.com/willie.morris/iWeb/Willie./Blog/B91D7C8B-ADB7-494E-BB11-4314A1F85D03_files/shapeimage_3.png

D-d-d-d-do you have it!? GUTS!!!!!!!!!

[caveBEAR]

All American Canal on 60 Minutes


:lol:

[Scrandon]

Only you...

[MyWorldEntire]

Putting in ropes doesn't make much sense to me with the current immigration policy.

[Scrandon]

Putting in ropes doesn't make much sense to me with the current immigration policy.

Thank you, It's like, "Hey you're not allowed in, but here's the key under the mat, and nobody's gonna be watching."

[fredrico0012]

Plenty of people do illegal things. I smoked pot the other day. If a bear attacked me while I was smoking, should I also be disregarded?

Yes but not because you smoked pot. Its because bears are endangered and a human life is not worth harming an endangered creature.

[perceptrons]

Thank you, It's like, "Hey you're not allowed in, but here's the key under the mat, and nobody's gonna be watching."
Hyperbole.

Nope, so what does "of sound mind" mean to you?
I'm sure you can figure it out.

[DrStrong]

They wouldn't be put there to help them immigrate illegally, they would be put there to stop deaths. The wording is important.
Then have them installed on the Mexico side only.

[Scrandon]

Hyperbole.


I think it's a perfectly apt comparison, they're not allowed, but then you want to put something to make it easier for them to get in, lets say a "key" in the metaphor.

[DrStrong]

I think it's a perfectly apt comparison, they're not allowed, but then you want to put something to make it easier for them to get in, lets say a "key" in the metaphor.
The whole thing is sad with all of the unnecessary deaths. People are forgetting that all of these people have died in vein. Shame on the fathers who put their small children at risk.

[caveBEAR]

I think it's a perfectly apt comparison, they're not allowed, but then you want to put something to make it easier for them to get in, lets say a "key" in the metaphor.

They want to put something in place to help save lives, not help people cross the border.

Big difference.

[DrStrong]

They want to put something in place to help save lives, not help people cross the border.

Big difference.

Right, but putting ladders/ropes/etc. on the US side, will aide in people successfully crossing the border. Most will get caught, but not all of them.

[Scrandon]

They want to put something in place to help save lives, not help people cross the border.

Big difference.

I know the intentions are different, but either way it ends up with the same result. A rope tied to the side of the canal just makes it easier to cross.

[caveBEAR]

Right, but putting ladders/ropes/etc. on the US side, will aide in people successfully crossing the border. Most will get caught, but not all of them.

I know the intentions are different, but either way it ends up with the same result. A rope tied to the side of the canal just makes it easier to cross.

I'd rather see 1,000 illegal immigrants make it across the border than see 1 of them die.

[DrStrong]

I'd rather see 1,000 illegal immigrants make it across the border than see 1 of them die.
Would you be opposed to putting up an electrified fence stretching the length of the canal, on BOTH sides?

[Scrandon]

I'd rather see 1,000 illegal immigrants make it across the border than see 1 of them die.

HAHAHAHA, Oh don't worry about it, that is definitely already happening. You got your wish buddy.

(Remember were talking about a dozen a year dying as compared to 20 million who cross.)

[Scrandon]

My God it's probably more dangerous to drive a car than cross the border.

[caveBEAR]

Would you be opposed to putting up an electrified fence stretching the length of the canal, on BOTH sides?

Yes.

HAHAHAHA, Oh don't worry about it, that is definitely already happening. You got your wish buddy.

(Remember were talking about a dozen a year dying as compared to 20 million who cross.)

Good to see you're still an nationalist asshole. A dozen people dying is a dozen too many.

[caveBEAR]

My God it's probably more dangerous to drive a car than cross the border.

The point is that we put an obstacle in the way of people which can lead to their deaths.

[DrStrong]

Yes.



Good to see you're still an nationalist asshole. A dozen people dying is a dozen too many.

Your slippin! :-p

They should do a fence, they wont kill themselves AND they'll stay out of the country.

EDIT: Do you think that canal was strategically placed there?

[caveBEAR]

Your slippin! :-p

They should do a fence, they wont kill themselves AND they'll stay out of the country.

EDIT: Do you think that canal was strategically placed there?

I don't think that anyone should be barred from living where they want merely because they were born in the 'wrong' country. I don't know much about the story, but it's all just white noise to me because I think all the immigration bullshit we worry about is just that; bullshit.

It's real easy to tell people to stay in their countries from the country they want to be in.

[DrStrong]

I don't think that anyone should be barred from living where they want merely because they were born in the 'wrong' country. I don't know much about the story, but it's all just white noise to me because I think all the immigration bullshit we worry about is just that; bullshit.

It's real easy to tell people to stay in their countries from the country they want to be in.
Good point.

Im for immigration; legal immigration. There should be something done to either make the process easier, or faster. I dont know if its true, but isnt it kind of like a history/economic exam? I believe you should have to know at least some English, enough to enable you to know exactly what is going on.

They story about the All American Canal is simple...Over X amount of years, I dont remember the years, but there has been over 550 bodies being "stuck" in the drop off areas in the canal. Basically like small dams to change the water level where the land elevation gets lower.

Another big controversy is that the people in charge of the canal have put effort into saving the fish from getting stuck in the drop offs. You could imagine people would automatically assume that these people have no interest in preserving human life. They just simply want the potential illegal immigrants to perish in the waters.

EDIT: Oh, there is one activist, i forget his name, but he is the brother of the original Congressman who funded the building of the canal. He had a group of people help him put a large string of buoys across a stretch of water, which took him about 20 minutes. Of course, authorities came and made him remove it. But that just goes to show that there is NO effort to change anything, even though they say its "being planned".

[caveBEAR]

Good point.

Im for immigration; legal immigration. There should be something done to either make the process easier, or faster. I dont know if its true, but isnt it kind of like a history/economic exam? I believe you should have to know at least some English, enough to enable you to know exactly what is going on.

They story about the All American Canal is simple...Over X amount of years, I dont remember the years, but there has been over 550 bodies being "stuck" in the drop off areas in the canal. Basically like small dams to change the water level where the land elevation gets lower.

Another big controversy is that the people in charge of the canal have put effort into saving the fish from getting stuck in the drop offs. You could imagine people would automatically assume that these people have no interest in preserving human life. They just simply want the potential illegal immigrants to perish in the waters.

EDIT: Oh, there is one activist, i forget his name, but he is the brother of the original Congressman who funded the building of the canal. He had a group of people help him put a large string of buoys across a stretch of water, which took him about 20 minutes. Of course, authorities came and made him remove it. But that just goes to show that there is NO effort to change anything, even though they say its "being planned".

I am fine with your view on immigration. It's not mine (mine's a bit more 'tear down the walls / erase borders, i.e., unrealistic) but I can completely agree with most of your views.

It's the people who are completely callous to the loss of life because 'they aren't American', 'they were doing something illegal', etc., that infuriate me.

Thanks for the summation on canal, and the story in your edit is completely disheartening. It's sad to see for every person willing to throw in a 'buoy' (or some form of help) there's plenty more people lined up to rip the hypothetical buoy out of the water. :-(

People are, and will always be, more important than politics.

[DrStrong]

I am fine with your view on immigration. It's not mine (mine's a bit more 'tear down the walls / erase borders, i.e., unrealistic) but I can completely agree with most of your views.

It's the people who are completely callous to the loss of life because 'they aren't American', 'they were doing something illegal', etc., that infuriate me.

Thanks for the summation on canal, and the story in your edit is completely disheartening. It's sad to see for every person willing to throw in a 'buoy' (or some form of help) there's plenty more people lined up to rip the hypothetical buoy out of the water. :-(

People are, and will always be, more important than politics.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/30/60minutes/main6448631.shtml

Stella Mendoza, the Director of the Imperial Irrigation District (IID) is such a douche bag, her interview was cruel.


"Is the IID supposed to save every individual that jumps into the canal? Is that my role as a director?" Mendoza asked.

Mendoza told "60 Minutes" that she worries that adding safety features like buoys, lines or ladders would give illegal immigrants a false sense of security.

Asked if she feels the canal is safe, Mendoza told Pelley, "The canal is intended to convey water to the Imperial Valley from the Colorado River. It's not intended as a recreation and so…."

"We're not talking about recreation here. We're talking about people desperate to come into the United States and who are losing their lives in your canal," Pelley remarked.

"I understand that. When an individual decides to cross the desert, decides to cross the mountains, decides to jump into the canal to swim across, they are taking their lives in their own hands. They have to be accountable for their actions," Mendoza argued.



I was wrong before, the Congressman's name was Duncan Hunter, he lead the effort to build a fence somewhere that kept illegals out. But, it also lead illegal immigrants directly to the desert, and the canal.

John Hunter is the man who put out the line of buoys just to show how fast it could be done.

Former Rep. Duncan Hunter says the fence is a success and now the canal should be made safer. The congressman's brother, John Hunter, feels the unintended cost of the fence has been too high.

"I wonder whether any of this is family guilt…that motivates you?" Pelley asked John Hunter.

"I have nothin' - guilt to me is an acceptable phrase. I mean, there is, we all love each other in my family, aside from the occasional fist fight, okay. And so I would say there is some ownership, 'cause I helped Duncan back in the day," Hunter replied.

"If 500 and more Americans had drowned in the canal, what do you think would have happened?" Pelley asked.

"If 50 Americans had drowned in the canal, this would have been solved a long time ago," Hunter replied.

[caveBEAR]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/30/60minutes/main6448631.shtml

Stella Mendoza, the Director of the Imperial Irrigation District (IID) is such a douche bag, her interview was cruel.

I was wrong before, the Congressman's name was Duncan Hunter, he lead the effort to build a fence somewhere that kept illegals out. But, it also lead illegal immigrants directly to the desert, and the canal.

John Hunter is the man who put out the line of buoys just to show how fast it could be done.

"If 500 and more Americans had drowned in the canal, what do you think would have happened?" Pelley asked.

"If 50 Americans had drowned in the canal, this would have been solved a long time ago," Hunter replied.

Exactly.

[Scrandon]

The point is that we put an obstacle in the way of people which can lead to their deaths.

A canal is used to transport water, it's not a fricken moat around the border, get over yourself.

[DrStrong]

A canal is used to transport water, it's not a fricken moat around the border, get over yourself.
Do you think there should be some sort of deterrent from easily getting into the water? From the video footage, i dont even think there were any signs!

[Scrandon]

Do you think there should be some sort of deterrent from easily getting into the water? From the video footage, i dont even think there were any signs!

I'm pretty sure most people understand it's dangerous, only a dozen people try each year and most die... But I'm not gonna say putting up signs is a bad idea.

[DrStrong]

I'm pretty sure most people understand it's dangerous, only a dozen people try each year and most die... But I'm not gonna say putting up signs is a bad idea.
Well, i was going to say a fence.

Im trying to see where you stand...preserving life at the cost of illegal immigrants gaining entry to the US, or blocking off the possibility all together.

[Scrandon]

Well, i was going to say a fence.

Im trying to see where you stand...preserving life at the cost of illegal immigrants gaining entry to the US, or blocking off the possibility all together.

I don't think it makes sense to say that people are not allowed to cross the border, and then essentially help them cross the border.

[Scrandon]

Or maybe we should just offer free ferry service coast to coast, that would save some lives. X-)

[DrStrong]

Or maybe we should just offer free ferry service coast to coast, that would save some lives. X-)
Haha, alright i was just curious where you stood.

Those 550 people found dead were just from the canal, there are a total of around 800 John/Jane Doe marked graves nearby. There is around 300 or so dead people being found in the desert. I guess these were the people who didnt make it TO the canal.

[Scrandon]

Haha, alright i was just curious where you stood.

Those 550 people found dead were just from the canal, there are a total of around 800 John/Jane Doe marked graves nearby. There is around 300 or so dead people being found in the desert. I guess these were the people who didnt make it TO the canal.

I know it's not a beautiful situation, but I don't necessarily believe it is the government's role to save people from their own stupidity. That is ANY people, so I'm not just a nationalist asshole. BEARboy

[DrStrong]

I know it's not a beautiful situation, but I don't necessarily believe it is the government's role to save people from their own stupidity. That is ANY people, so I'm not just a nationalist asshole. BEARboy
People are getting emotional because of the illegal immigrant motives for crossing the canal.

At the same time, its sad that the Mexican government hasnt done anything either...

[Theseventhson]

I know it's not a beautiful situation, but I don't necessarily believe it is the government's role to save people from their own stupidity. That is ANY people, so I'm not just a nationalist asshole. BEARboy

Ignorant post is ignorant.

[Scrandon]

Ignorant post is ignorant.

It's an opinion of the government's role, it's not ignorance. Nice meme though bro.

[Theseventhson]

It's an opinion of the government's role, it's not ignorance. Nice meme though bro.

I was referring to the "their own stupidity' part of the quote, sorry I should have bolded that to make it clear.

[<*)))><]

:popcorn:

[caveBEAR]

I know it's not a beautiful situation, but I don't necessarily believe it is the government's role to save people from their own stupidity. That is ANY people, so I'm not just a nationalist asshole. BEARboy

You equate saving lives of people drowning in the canal to organizing an 'Illegal Immigrants Ferry'. Nationalist or not, you're still an asshole.

[Scrandon]

You equate saving lives of people drowning in the canal to organizing an 'Illegal Immigrants Ferry'. Nationalist or not, you're still an asshole.

dude, fuck off.

[caveBEAR]

dude, fuck off.

They pay taxes.

[Manicapathy]

Put up some signs, and if they still go for it and end up dead, it's their own damn fault.

[caveBEAR]

God, you would think a thread with this much stupid inside it would collapse under it's own weight...:rolleyes:

[DrStrong]

An impassable fence would solve everyones problem. The people who dont want to see people die, and the people who dont want illegal immigrants to come here.

[caveBEAR]

An impassable fence would solve everyones problem. The people who dont want to see people die, and the people who dont want illegal immigrants to come here.

$10 says half the people working on the fence are illegal immigrants.

[paper halo]

God, you would think a thread with this much stupid inside it would collapse under it's own weight...:rolleyes:

Or, worse, become a supermassive black hole of stupid.

[caveBEAR]

Or, worse, become a supermassive black hole of stupid.

Nothing escapes a stupid-massive black hole.

[zion the lion]

They pay taxes.

What does that have to do with anything?

Say I pay taxes, but if I go out to a beach that's known for its rip currents, with only an inter tube to hold on to knowing that I cant swim and I get dragged out and drown, who's fault is it?

[paper halo]

:hitself:

[caveBEAR]

What does that have to do with anything?

Say I pay taxes, but if I go out to a beach that's known for its rip currents, with only an inter tube to hold on to knowing that I cant swim and I get dragged out and drown, who's fault is it?

They pay taxes.

[zion the lion]

They pay taxes.

I'm not asking that. In fact, I know!

But that wasnt the point.

if I go out to a beach that's known for its rip currents, with only an inter tube to hold on to knowing that I cant swim and I get dragged out and drown, who's fault is it?

[caveBEAR]

I'm not asking that. In fact, I know!

But that wasnt the point.

if I go out to a beach that's known for its rip currents, with only an inter tube to hold on to knowing that I cant swim and I get dragged out and drown, who's fault is it?

Probably the taxpayers.

[zion the lion]

Probably the taxpayers.

The taxpayers who didnt stop the rip current. You're a little bit full of shit now yogi.

P.s. The example really did happen to me, the summer I turned 15, I went to Greece to visit my best friend (who's dad was in Nato, my stepdad was planning on making me live with them until I turned 18 but then I got sick) so we were always going to beaches and two of them we went to were kind of dangerous. Me and my friend always liked to go really far out from shore so that we could have privacy, but because I dont know how to swim, we would use floaties but my boobs were too big for them to go over the top of me (which just points out how dangerous and stupid we were). I dont think it would have been anybody's fault but mine if I got caught by a rip current.
And no, I didnt...obviously.

[Scrandon]

The taxpayers who didnt stop the rip current. You're a little bit full of shit now yogi.

P.s. The example really did happen to me, the summer I turned 15, I went to Greece to visit my best friend (who's dad was in Nato, my stepdad was planning on making me live with them until I turned 18 but then I got sick) so we were always going to beaches and two of them we went to were kind of dangerous. Me and my friend always liked to go really far out from shore so that we could have privacy, but because I dont know how to swim, we would use floaties but my boobs were too big for them to go over the top of me (which just points out how dangerous and stupid we were). I dont think it would have been anybody's fault but mine if I got caught by a rip current.
And no, I didnt...obviously.

Is there anything that hasn't happened to you?

But seriously, he's fucking with you, and using a joke from pages back that he didn't come up with.

[Scrandon]

God, you would think a thread with this much stupid inside it would collapse under it's own weight...:rolleyes:

Sounds like what would happen to a country run by you and like-minded morons.

[zion the lion]

Is there anything that hasn't happened to you?

But seriously, he's fucking with you, and using a joke from pages back that he didn't come up with.

How is that something that "happened to me" I mean really, I told a story about going to a beach, explaining the fucking example I used. Absolutely nothing happened at the beach except at one beach I saw a dying jellyfish, oh and my boobs were too big for the life jacket that would have normally fit me when some guy let us ride his jetski thing. But youre right, that story is certainly is an example of how everything in the world happens to me. Goddamn.

I'm well aware, by the way, when Yogi fucks with me, I fuck harder by trying to confuse him. Its a loving relationship.

[DrStrong]

$10 says half the people working on the fence are illegal immigrants.
Whats worse, our countries blatant disregard for peoples lives, just to keep illegals out? Or the fact that the Mexican government hasnt taken anything into their own hands to stop their own people drowning?

[Scrandon]

How is that something that "happened to me" I mean really, I told a story about going to a beach, explaining the fucking example I used. Absolutely nothing happened at the beach except at one beach I saw a dying jellyfish, oh and my boobs were too big for the life jacket that would have normally fit me when some guy let us ride his jetski thing. But youre right, that story is certainly is an example of how everything in the world happens to me. Goddamn.

I'm well aware, by the way, when Yogi fucks with me, I fuck harder by trying to confuse him. Its a loving relationship.

No you were not well aware. The troll got trolled.

[caveBEAR]

Sounds like what would happen to a country run by you and like-minded morons.

Don't worry. I sleep soundly knowing you think I'm a moron. If my views and yours lined up, I'd be pretty disappointed in myself.

[zion the lion]

No you were not well aware. The troll got trolled.

How would you even know if I was well aware or not? Do you live in my brain? Are you my conscience? Its amazing because I didnt know a 19 year old prick was living inside me all my life telling me what I did and didnt know.

[caveBEAR]

No you were not well aware. The troll got trolled.

I don't lower zion to the same level as you.

Just thought I'd clear this up.

[Scrandon]

How would you even know if I was well aware or not? Do you live in my brain? Are you my conscience? Its amazing because I didnt know a 19 year old prick was living inside me all my life telling me what I did and didnt know.

Cause there are these things called words that you right down that reflect what you are thinking.

What a bitch

[zion the lion]

Cause there are these things called words that you right down that reflect what you are thinking.

What a bitch

And there's this thing called reading. You're just really stupid.

God-fucking-damn.

Okay I'm done. Bye bye.

[zion the lion]

I don't lower zion to the same level as you.

Just thought I'd clear this up.

And thank you Yogi.

I know I'm pretty high on your list, like right below god or something.