Not Guilty Due to Insanity

[DrStrong]

I'm bringing up this subject because somthing that has happened recently here in California. There was a woman, for apparently for no reason, stabbed four people inside of Target, all while yelling out "I'm bipolar!".

Here is the story...
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/may/04/local/la-me-0504-target-stabbing-20100504

Last night, the news mentioned that she plead not guilty by reason of insanity, and that she is too unstable to stand trial. I'm sorry, but this is one area where the court system really needs to be changed.

What are your opinions on people claiming to be innocent due to them claiming to be insane?

[bung]

Less than 1% of court cases occur with a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity. Only 1/4 of those are successful. In 80% of these successful pleas, the prosecution has agreed to the appropriateness of the plea.

It's a legitimate defense for those who are genuinely affected by mental disorders.

[DrStrong]

Less than 1% of court cases occur with a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity. Only 1/4 of those are successful. In 80% of these successful pleas, the prosecution has agreed to the appropriateness of the plea.

It's a legitimate defense for those who are genuinely affected by mental disorders.
Alright but when does the judge draw the line, despite the prosecution/defense arguments? This woman stabbed another woman in the neck, while holding a small child. Do you really think she should just go to a mental hospital? This lady did admit she was drunk at the time of the attack.

[bung]

Alright but when does the judge draw the line, despite the prosecution/defense arguments? This woman stabbed another woman in the neck, while holding a small child. Do you really think she should just go to a mental hospital? This lady did admit she was drunk at the time of the attack.

I can't really say. I'm not familiar enough with the case or her history, nor am I a qualified psychologist/psychiatrist capable of judging whether or not she knew right from wrong at the time of committing the crime.

[DrStrong]

I can't really say. I'm not familiar enough with the case or her history, nor am I a qualified psychologist/psychiatrist capable of judging whether or not she knew right from wrong at the time of committing the crime.
Really? So because the person may be claiming they didnt understand the concept of right/wrong, at the time of the attack, justifies the attack? Even if its blatantly obvious to the rest of the country?

It just seems as a cop-out IMO.

[popdisaster00]

Don't most of these people spend the rest of their life in a hospital anyway? I remember the story of a guy who knifed another guy's head off on a city bus a few years back, and ended up eating his nose and ears and stuff before the cops finally came. He was found not guilty by reason of insanity. Now, I'm fine if these sorts of people are in a locked up mental hospital. Just as long as they aren't released back into society.

[DrStrong]

Don't most of these people spend the rest of their life in a hospital anyway? I remember the story of a guy who knifed another guy's head off on a city bus a few years back, and ended up eating his nose and ears and stuff before the cops finally came. He was found not guilty by reason of insanity. Now, I'm fine if these sorts of people are in a locked up mental hospital. Just as long as they aren't released back into society.
So thats what happened with that case? I remember that story, the cops were watching as all this heppened.

[caveBEAR]

Really? So because the person may be claiming they didnt understand the concept of right/wrong, at the time of the attack, justifies the attack? Even if its blatantly obvious to the rest of the country?

It just seems as a cop-out IMO.

An insanity plea does not justify the attack. An insanity plea merely means that the person was not in a state of mind to understand their actions. Therefore, they cannot be tried like someone who did. It doesn't justify the attack, it just changes how we handle the situation. Someone found not-guilty by way of insanity doesn't just go home, they usually end up in a mental facility. They just aren't slapped with a 'guilty' charge because the judge decides they didn't understand what they were doing.

[popdisaster00]

I think a good question is how do they prove that they really were insane?

[DrStrong]

An insanity plea does not justify the attack. An insanity plea merely means that the person was not in a state of mind to understand their actions. Therefore, they cannot be tried like someone who did. It doesn't justify the attack, it just changes how we handle the situation. Someone found not-guilty by way of insanity doesn't just go home, they usually end up in a mental facility. They just aren't slapped with a 'guilty' charge because the judge decides they didn't understand what they were doing.
That is the part I dont agree on. I know the lady will probably end up in a nut house for a very long time.
I think a good question is how do they prove that they really were insane?
This is my point, how does someone prove another person's state of mind?

Some of these things I take to heart, not necessarily personally. But I have a small child, and I happen to have a girlfriend that happens to shop at Target.

[caveBEAR]

That is the part I dont agree on. I know the lady will probably end up in a nut house for a very long time.

I don't know the case, so I can't speak about this situation. I think it needs to be available so people who are genuinely mentally ill don't get thrown into the prison system, but I think the plea can't be thrown around just because someone seems different than the norm.

[DrStrong]

I don't know the case, so I can't speak about this situation. I think it needs to be available so people who are genuinely mentally ill don't get thrown into the prison system, but I think the plea can't be thrown around just because someone seems different than the norm.
Personally, I have a hard time buying into the "mental illness" thing.

[caveBEAR]

Personally, I have a hard time buying into the "mental illness" thing.

As in, you don't believe mental illness is real?

[xshady121]

Personally, I have a hard time buying into the "mental illness" thing.

As in, you don't believe mental illness is real?

:squint:

[caveBEAR]

:squint:

My sentiments exactly.

[DrStrong]

As in, you don't believe mental illness is real?
Basically. I've been personally affected by it, though. So its not like I'm someone who knows nothing of the topic. My mother is now "bipolar", as of around 2000. Before that, my entire childhood, was perfectly normal. I dont see how something could just be brought upon you like that.

I dont know, do people consider ADD/ADHD mental illnesses? Aren't they technically the same as other "chemical imbalances"?

[caveBEAR]

Well, I'm gonna take this time to mosey on out of this thread. There's already plenty of 'Bear makes mean remarks towards DrStrong/Scrandon' threads, no need to add this one to the list.

Anthony, maybe you want to take this one?

[xshady121]

Well, I'm gonna take this time to mosey on out of this thread. There's already plenty of 'Bear makes mean remarks towards DrStrong/Scrandon' threads, no need to add this one to the list.

Anthony, maybe you want to take this one?

Nope. He's all yours.

[macabre]

Basically. I've been personally affected by it, though. So its not like I'm someone who knows nothing of the topic. My mother is now "bipolar", as of around 2000. Before that, my entire childhood, was perfectly normal. I dont see how something could just be brought upon you like that.

I dont know, do people consider ADD/ADHD mental illnesses? Aren't they technically the same as other "chemical imbalances"?

Some people have a genetic predisposition toward a mental illness. The interaction between these genetic predispositions and environmental stressors may cause the mental illness to become activated in the brain. I'm not sure of the circumstances of your mother's case but it is quite possible for a mental illness to develop later on in life, if the sufficient environmental stressor is present (i.e. death of a loved one, divorce, being fired from a job). There is a bevy of evidence that the brain composition and function of the average individual differs heavily from those with mental illnesses, such as bipolar disorder and schizophrenia.

ADHD could be the result of a chemical imbalance but it's important to note that ADHD typically affects attention, not judgment or decision making. Thus, it would be hard for someone to claim that ADHD made it difficult for them to distinguish between right and wrong, unless there were comorbidities. I'm not sure if that's what you implied with your statement but BPD and ADHD have distinct effects on cognition, with BPD having a larger effect on judgment especially during mania.

[DrStrong]

Well, I'm gonna take this time to mosey on out of this thread. There's already plenty of 'Bear makes mean remarks towards DrStrong/Scrandon' threads, no need to add this one to the list.

Anthony, maybe you want to take this one?

Nope. He's all yours.
I love how you guys are basically asking each other who is going to "school" me. haha.

[caveBEAR]

I love how you guys are basically asking each other who is going to "school" me. haha.

Macabre got to the punch first.

[DrStrong]

Some people have a genetic predisposition toward a mental illness. The interaction between these genetic predispositions and environmental stressors may cause the mental illness to become activated in the brain. I'm not sure of the circumstances of your mother's case but it is quite possible for a mental illness to develop later on in life, if the sufficient environmental stressor is present (i.e. death of a loved one, divorce, being fired from a job). There is a bevy of evidence that the brain composition and function of the average individual differs heavily from those with mental illnesses, such as bipolar disorder and schizophrenia.

ADHD could be the result of a chemical imbalance but it's important to note that ADHD typically affects attention, not judgment or decision making. Thus, it would be hard for someone to claim that ADHD made it difficult for them to distinguish between right and wrong, unless there were comorbidities. I'm not sure if that's what you implied with your statement but BPD and ADHD have distinct effects on cognition.

No, I didnt mean that at all. Just simply asking if those two disorders are looked at in a similar way; being a mental illness.

[wall e]

Somebody call Dexter Morgan.

[macabre]

No, I didnt mean that at all. Just simply asking if those two disorders are looked at in a similar way; being a mental illness.

Yes, they're both included in the Diagnostic and Statistical Model of Mental Disorders (DSM) which is essentially the handbook that psychologists use in order to diagnose individuals.

[perceptrons]

The problem with ADHD is that it is just so over-diagnosed that it makes people skeptical of the disorder. ADHD is very real.

[DrStrong]

The problem with ADHD is that it is just so over-diagnosed that it makes people skeptical of the disorder. ADHD is very real.

Oh I completely agree with that. I have a 5 year old that my girlfriend swears is either ADD or ADHD, because he is hyper all the time. I guess the fact that he eats a bunch of sugar has nothing to do with his behavior:-|

[perceptrons]

Oh I completely agree with that. I have a 5 year old that my girlfriend swears is either ADD or ADHD, because he is hyper all the time. I guess the fact that he eats a bunch of sugar has nothing to do with his behavior:-|
It doesn't, actually. It's a myth that sugar causes those problems. Also, ADD is not a diagnostic term. It's always ADHD, there are just two subtypes (inattentive and hyperactive).

[RedWineSheets]

Read about the concurrence between Mens Rea and Actus Reus. Then read about the McNaugton Rule and youll have a basic legal understanding of Insanity defense.

[And Hours Pass]

Somebody call Dexter Morgan.
Best post in this thread.

[loveisdead]

Read about the concurrence between Mens Rea and Actus Reus. Then read about the McNaugton Rule and youll have a basic legal understanding of Insanity defense.

:appl:

This thread is hilarious.

[RedWineSheets]

:appl:

This thread is hilarious.

i hate to even come to the politics forum but i couldn't resist this thread. it does provide for some laughs though.

[drevans18]

this defense rarely works. the second post is right, less than 1% of people actually plead insanity, and from that 1%, a very small percentage actually tried as insane. Law and Order teaches us that about 75% of cases plead insanity... but thats just not true.

[saysmydoctor]

We don't need no Sean or Anthony, Bung got this:
Less than 1% of court cases occur with a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity. Only 1/4 of those are successful. In 80% of these successful pleas, the prosecution has agreed to the appropriateness of the plea.

It's a legitimate defense for those who are genuinely affected by mental disorders.
What you see on SVU =/= reality

[caveBEAR]

I think the saddest thing we've learned today is that people still watch Law & Order and the spin-offs.

[DrStrong]

I think the saddest thing we've learned today is that people still watch Law & Order and the spin-offs.
I dont watch those shows, but im curious what you're taste in TV is like.

[apoemtothedead]

Probably because they're great shows.

[caveBEAR]

I dont watch those shows, but im curious what you're taste in TV is like.

Modern Family, PBS, NatGeo, and the Science Channel.

[DrStrong]

Modern Family, PBS, NatGeo, and the Science Channel.
aww, what about Discovery? Mythbusters FTW.

[xshady121]

I think the saddest thing we've learned today is that people still watch Law & Order and the spin-offs.

Getting trapped in a law and order marathon is deadly.

[DrStrong]

Getting trapped in a law and order marathon is deadly.
Im the same way but for Deadliest Catch.

[caveBEAR]

aww, what about Discovery? Mythbusters FTW.

Discovery Channel and History Channel jumped the shark a long time ago. I don't really care about Bear Grills getting out of a burning car or people in Pawn Shops. Science Channel and History International/Military Channel, thank you very much.

[BornUnderPunches]

Alright but when does the judge draw the line, despite the prosecution/defense arguments? This woman stabbed another woman in the neck, while holding a small child. Do you really think she should just go to a mental hospital? This lady did admit she was drunk at the time of the attack.
That's not insanity? Maybe I'm just missing something from this trial since all I know about it is what you have said in this thread.

also since everyone's talking about Law and Order...



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_uKc2wTL6oMI/R1f2d5DzMeI/AAAAAAAAAYQ/0IJ7bImbZc8/s400/batman-law-and-order.gif
(it was the only remotely funny one I could find)

[DrStrong]

That's not insanity? Maybe I'm just missing something from this trial since all I know about it is what you have said in this thread.

also since everyone's talking about Law and Order...

(it was the only remotely funny one I could find)

Being drunk while your stabbing innocent people, then sobering up and claiming you were in a temporary loss of clarity due to your mental disorder is rediculous.

According to her "friend", which was interviewed shortly after the attack...this is what he said, I'll paraphrase because i cant find the quote. It was on the news last night.

"she was under mind control, similar to the bourne identity, she is no where near stable enough to stand trial."

[DrStrong]

Discovery Channel and History Channel jumped the shark a long time ago. I don't really care about Bear Grills getting out of a burning car or people in Pawn Shops. Science Channel and History International/Military Channel, thank you very much.
haha, alright fair enough. I WAS a fan of Bear Grills, until he was proven to be a fraud. His new show seems like a ripoff that was on Spike last year. Do you know what im talking about? There was a guy that showed you how to survive a plane crash..there were more episodes but this was the pilot.

I lost the Military channel when i went to Dish Network. I enjoyed Future Weapons and Lock & Loaded (i think thats the title, with R. Lee Emery).

[perceptrons]

Discovery Channel and History Channel jumped the shark a long time ago. I don't really care about Bear Grills getting out of a burning car or people in Pawn Shops. Science Channel and History International/Military Channel, thank you very much.
There are enough goodies to keep Discovery on the roster, I think. I agree on History though, I can't count the number of 'Decoding Nostradamus' or whatever it's called I've seen on the guide.

[caveBEAR]

haha, alright fair enough. I WAS a fan of Bear Grills, until he was proven to be a fraud. His new show seems like a ripoff that was on Spike last year. Do you know what im talking about? There was a guy that showed you how to survive a plane crash..there were more episodes but this was the pilot.

I lost the Military channel when i went to Dish Network. I enjoyed Future Weapons and Lock & Loaded (i think thats the title, with R. Lee Emery).

I tend to watch the historical shows on the Military and skip over anything with R. Lee Emery.

[perceptrons]

Being drunk while your stabbing innocent people, then sobering up and claiming you were in a temporary loss of clarity due to your mental disorder is rediculous.

According to her "friend", which was interviewed shortly after the attack...this is what he said, I'll paraphrase because i cant find the quote. It was on the news last night.

"she was under mind control, similar to the bourne identity, she is no where near stable enough to stand trial."
There's no way any of that will stand up in court.

[DrStrong]

I tend to watch the historical shows on the Military and skip over anything with R. Lee Emery.
Alright, but you didnt say anything negative towards Future Weapons! Oh come on, you know your favorite show is Deadliest Warrior on Spike.

[caveBEAR]

There are enough goodies to keep Discovery on the roster, I think. I agree on History though, I can't count the number of 'Decoding Nostradamus' or whatever it's called I've seen on the guide.

Discovery redeemed itself big time with Into The Universe and Life, but there hasn't been a lot else that's caught my attention. Anything in particular I should look out for?

I hate all the 2012 crap and Nostradomus and/or Satan crap always on History.

[caveBEAR]

Alright, but you didnt say anything negative towards Future Weapons! Oh come on, you know your favorite show is Deadliest Warrior on Spike.

I don't watch Spike, and Future Weapons doesn't really interest me, but I don't know if I'd change it if it happened to come on directly after a show I watched.

[DrStrong]

There's no way any of that will stand up in court.
I left out a couple of things her friend said, but come on. After you hear that comparison to Bourne Identity...do you really hear anything else the person has to say?

[perceptrons]

Discovery redeemed itself big time with Into The Universe and Life, but there hasn't been a lot else that's caught my attention. Anything in particular I should look out for?

I hate all the 2012 crap and Nostradomus and/or Satan crap always on History.
I also enjoy Cash Cab, Mythbusters, Life, Dirty Jobs and Storm Chasers.

[DrStrong]

Any of you guys know what channel Decoding The Past, and Destination Truth is on? I do enjoy the shows where people are in search of significant historical artifacts. The most interesting would have to be the Arc of the Covenant, because its obviously fake, or meant to not be taken literal.

[BornUnderPunches]

Being drunk while your stabbing innocent people, then sobering up and claiming you were in a temporary loss of clarity due to your mental disorder is rediculous.

According to her "friend", which was interviewed shortly after the attack...this is what he said, I'll paraphrase because i cant find the quote. It was on the news last night.

"she was under mind control, similar to the bourne identity, she is no where near stable enough to stand trial."
when I said "that's not insanity?" i was agreeing with you, not claiming it was absurd haha. Like "what the fuck kind of excuse is that...." not "well that makes sense..."

[perceptrons]

I left out a couple of things her friend said, but come on. After you hear that comparison to Bourne Identity...do you really hear anything else the person has to say?
Exactly, so while I'll always enjoy talking about psychologically related topics, this case was a terrible example.

[caveBEAR]

I also enjoy Cash Cab, Mythbusters, Life, Dirty Jobs and Storm Chasers.

Never watched Storm Chasers. Is Dirty Jobs still pumping out new episodes? I haven't seen it in a while, but that was interesting. Mythbusters and Cash Cab, while I enjoyed them, just kind of lost my interest after a while. Cash Cab especially, but I do that with most trivia/game shows.

[DrStrong]

when I said "that's not insanity?" i was agreeing with you, not claiming it was absurd haha. Like "what the fuck kind of excuse is that...." not "well that makes sense..."
Just google "Target Stabbing", and a bunch of stuff comes up regarding this.
Exactly, so while I'll always enjoy talking about psychologically related topics, this case was a terrible example.
I dont know if it was covered, but I wonder if she came into Target with these TWO knives, or if she got them from inside the store.

[jessicalynn-xx]

Alright but when does the judge draw the line, despite the prosecution/defense arguments? This woman stabbed another woman in the neck, while holding a small child. Do you really think she should just go to a mental hospital? This lady did admit she was drunk at the time of the attack.

If she is, in fact, insane, then of course she should "just" go to a mental hospital. Do you really think people who are mentally ill should be sent to prison with hardened criminals? How will that help her at all?

[more heart]

Don't most of these people spend the rest of their life in a hospital anyway? I remember the story of a guy who knifed another guy's head off on a city bus a few years back, and ended up eating his nose and ears and stuff before the cops finally came. He was found not guilty by reason of insanity. Now, I'm fine if these sorts of people are in a locked up mental hospital. Just as long as they aren't released back into society.
Pretty much. I take a criminal law class and we went over the "insanity" plea. Firstly, it's rarely used and even in the few cases it is used, the success rate is very low. Secondly, even if the defendant is proven not guilty by reason of insanity, the court will most likely sentence the defendant to some mental institution for a very long time. So they never really walk out of the court "free".

[DrStrong]

If she is, in fact, insane, then of course she should "just" go to a mental hospital. Do you really think people who are mentally ill should be sent to prison with hardened criminals? How will that help her at all?

That last question shows that there is an underlying point to what you posted.

First of all, if this lady came into Target with the knives already in her hands, thats premeditated any way you look at it. Secondly, what makes her any different than any other man/woman who has done a similar act? Lastly, people who claim prisions are a place to rehabilitate the convicted are just full of shit, sorry. People who commit violent acts are put in prision to get them away from the rest of society.

[DrStrong]

Pretty much. I take a criminal law class and we went over the "insanity" plea. Firstly, it's rarely used and even in the few cases it is used, the success rate is very low. Secondly, even if the defendant is proven not guilty by reason of insanity, the court will most likely sentence the defendant to some mental institution for a very long time. So they never really walk out of the court "free".
The only reason i made this thread was to see what other people's views are on the subject. My whole thing is, what justifies a person being insane? It seems like the statement you have to make is, "i dont know what i was doing." and you're almost automatically treated as having mental problems. As opposed to some dipshit who did something violent and cruel.

Its the same thing as when pedophiles say, "i need help!".

[jessicalynn-xx]

That last question shows that there is an underlying point to what you posted.

First of all, if this lady came into Target with the knives already in her hands, thats premeditated any way you look at it. Secondly, what makes her any different than any other man/woman who has done a similar act? Lastly, people who claim prisions are a place to rehabilitate the convicted are just full of shit, sorry. People who commit violent acts are put in prision to get them away from the rest of society.

People who are mentally ill need help. That's not an underlying point, that's something I thought most people agreed on... Your point about prisons not rehabilitating people proves my point; If she is truly mentally ill, she needs to be rehabilitated. Prison will not do that.

[caveBEAR]

That last question shows that there is an underlying point to what you posted.

First of all, if this lady came into Target with the knives already in her hands, thats premeditated any way you look at it. Secondly, what makes her any different than any other man/woman who has done a similar act? Lastly, people who claim prisions are a place to rehabilitate the convicted are just full of shit, sorry. People who commit violent acts are put in prision to get them away from the rest of society.

One case abusing the insanity plea does not throw the entire idea out the window.

[DrStrong]

People who are mentally ill need help. That's not an underlying point, that's something I thought most people agreed on... Your point about prisons not rehabilitating people proves my point; If she is truly mentally ill, she needs to be rehabilitated. Prison will not do that.
Rehabilitated despite her actions? Where should you draw the line? If this woman stabbed the baby instead of the mother, should she still deserve help?

[jessicalynn-xx]

Rehabilitated despite her actions? Where should you draw the line? If this woman stabbed the baby instead of the mother, should she still deserve help?

Assuming she has a legitimate mental illness, yes. If she doesn't get psychological/medical attention she'll just continue to act out violently.

[Theseventhson]

Rehabilitated despite her actions? Where should you draw the line? If this woman stabbed the baby instead of the mother, should she still deserve help?

If she is insane.

[DrStrong]

Yes.
Have a child of your own and say that.

I really have a hard time understanding how sympathetic some people can be. Do people just not care if this shit happens to them?

[DrStrong]

Assuming she has a legitimate mental illness, yes. If she doesn't get psychological/medical attention she'll just continue to act out violently.


So send her to a place where she could eventually get out. Im going to compare this to rehabilitation for drug addicts, you know a lot of them relapse right? So, what if a criminally insane person relapses?

[caveBEAR]

So send her to a place where she could eventually get out. Im going to compare this to rehabilitation for drug addicts, you know a lot of them relapse right? So, what if a criminally insane person relapses?

That comparison is apples to oranges, and your posts about 'what if the baby was stabbed' are just pleas to emotion. So what if the baby was stabbed? The baby is more important than it's mother who was stabbed?

[perceptrons]

Have a child of your own and say that.

I really have a hard time understanding how sympathetic some people can be. Do people just not care if this shit happens to them?
Seriously guy, stop with the "if you had a child/loved one, you'd change your mind" thing.

It has nothing to do with 'not caring about the victims' and everything to do with trying to help a human being that has a sickness.

[DrStrong]

That comparison is apples to oranges, and your posts about 'what if the baby was stabbed' are just pleas to emotion. So what if the baby was stabbed? The baby is more important than it's mother who was stabbed?
Eh, i get your point. Like i said before, I dont get how some people could be so forgiving and sympathetic to certain people.

[perceptrons]

Eh, i get your point. Like i said before, I dont get how some people could be so forgiving and sympathetic to certain people.
Because it wasn't the person in control of the act, it was their illness.

[jessicalynn-xx]

Have a child of your own and say that.

I really have a hard time understanding how sympathetic some people can be. Do people just not care if this shit happens to them?

I edited that post. "Assuming she has a legitimate mental illness, yes. If she doesn't get psychological/medical attention she'll just continue to act out violently."

It's not a matter of being sympathetic. It's in everyone's best interests to treat her rather than just lock her up until she dies. People who are mentally ill are sick. Just like people with cancer are sick. They have an illness. People who have illnesses "deserve" treatment.

[DrStrong]

Seriously guy, stop with the "if you had a child/loved one, you'd change your mind" thing.

It has nothing to do with 'not caring about the victims' and everything to do with trying to help a human being that has a sickness.
I guess my problem is that people are more worried about the well being of the "sick" woman, rather than her victims.

[caveBEAR]

Eh, i get your point. Like i said before, I dont get how some people could be so forgiving and sympathetic to certain people.

We're sympathetic to people with genuine mental illnesses.

[caveBEAR]

I guess my problem is that people are more worried about the well being of the "sick" woman, rather than her victims.

Who said we don't care about the victims? You?

[jessicalynn-xx]

I guess my problem is that people are more worried about the well being of the "sick" woman, rather than her victims.

Why do you put the word "sick" in quotations like that? Do you not believe that mental illness is a real form of illness?

[perceptrons]

Why do you put the word "sick" in quotations like that? Do you not believe that mental illness is a real form of illness?
It's pretty obvious the guy neither understands, nor believes that mental illness are very real.

[perceptrons]

Who said we don't care about the victims? You?
Just what are you trying to imply? You can care about both parties?!

[caveBEAR]

Just what are you trying to imply? You can care about both parties?!

SHUN THE BLASPHEMER!!!

:rolleyes:

[DrStrong]

Why do you put the word "sick" in quotations like that? Do you not believe that mental illness is a real form of illness?
I believe that term is subjective. It is very easy to say you're sick or that you didn't comprehend exactly what happened. I have very strong will power, and I dont give into addictions. Thats why i have a hard time imagining someone could be so weak mined to succumb to something so minuscule.

[perceptrons]

I believe that term is subjective. It is very easy to say you're sick or that you didn't comprehend exactly what happened. I have very strong will power, and I dont give into addictions. Thats why i have a hard time imagining someone could be so weak mined to succumb to something so minuscule.
Yes, it is subjective. It doesn't matter if the person says they're sick, what matters is what they are deemed to be by a mental health professional after evaluation.

I would love to see you overcome something which you have little to no control over.

[jessicalynn-xx]

I believe that term is subjective. It is very easy to say you're sick or that you didn't comprehend exactly what happened. I have very strong will power, and I dont give into addictions. Thats why i have a hard time imagining someone could be so weak mined to succumb to something so minuscule.

It's not subjective. Mental illnesses have very clear definitions and symptoms and manifestations. It's easy to say you're sick, but some people are and some people aren't. Psychologists can tell the difference.

"I have very strong will power, and I dont give into addictions. Thats why i have a hard time imagining someone could be so weak mined to succumb to something so minuscule." What does this have to do with anything? Having a mental illness isn't something you choose. You can't just fight off schizophrenia with your "very strong will power."

[caveBEAR]

I believe that term is subjective. It is very easy to say you're sick or that you didn't comprehend exactly what happened. I have very strong will power, and I dont give into addictions. Thats why i have a hard time imagining someone could be so weak mined to succumb to something so minuscule.

Try meth.

[perceptrons]

It's not subjective. Mental illnesses have very clear definitions and symptoms and manifestations. It's easy to say you're sick, but some people are and some people aren't. Psychologists can tell the difference.

"I have very strong will power, and I dont give into addictions. Thats why i have a hard time imagining someone could be so weak mined to succumb to something so minuscule." What does this have to do with anything? Having a mental illness isn't something you choose. You can't just fight off schizophrenia with your "very strong will power."
The psychologist/psychiatrists evaluation is still subjective.

[DrStrong]

Try meth.
I've tried H, not very proud of it. But hey, here I am.

[xshady121]

That last question shows that there is an underlying point to what you posted.

First of all, if this lady came into Target with the knives already in her hands, thats premeditated any way you look at it. Secondly, what makes her any different than any other man/woman who has done a similar act? Lastly, people who claim prisions are a place to rehabilitate the convicted are just full of shit, sorry. People who commit violent acts are put in prision to get them away from the rest of society.

1) I was in a target a couple weeks ago and was wondering what was to stop someone from taking the display knives. Then saw they wre screwed down. This is irrelvent to anything thouhg.

2) You make it sound like they go to rehab, magically get better, and get released into society. That isn't how it happens. I'm sure you've seen shutter island.

Seriously guy, stop with the "if you had a child/loved one, you'd change your mind" thing.

It has nothing to do with 'not caring about the victims' and everything to do with trying to help a human being that has a sickness.

Bingo.

Eh, i get your point. Like i said before, I dont get how some people could be so forgiving and sympathetic to certain people.

How about :

Because it wasn't the person in control of the act, it was their illness.

This.

We're sympathetic to people with genuine mental illnesses.

Or this.

Why do you put the word "sick" in quotations like that? Do you not believe that mental illness is a real form of illness?

Becuase it's not really a disease. Duh.

I believe that term is subjective. It is very easy to say you're sick or that you didn't comprehend exactly what happened. I have very strong will power, and I dont give into addictions. Thats why i have a hard time imagining someone could be so weak mined to succumb to something so minuscule.

Wrong.

[yayitsjoe]

temporary insanity is even bigger bullshit.

[perceptrons]

temporary insanity is even bigger bullshit.
Go on...

[jessicalynn-xx]

The psychologist/psychiatrists evaluation is still subjective.

This is true.

[jessicalynn-xx]

I've tried H, not very proud of it. But hey, here I am.

Try dementia.

[DrStrong]

Try dementia.
Dementia isnt a drug...I know what it is, though. So what are you talking about?

[jessicalynn-xx]

Dementia isnt a drug...I know what it is, though. So what are you talking about?

Instant replay:

I believe that term is subjective. It is very easy to say you're sick or that you didn't comprehend exactly what happened. I have very strong will power, and I dont give into addictions. Thats why i have a hard time imagining someone could be so weak mined to succumb to something so minuscule.


"I have very strong will power, and I dont give into addictions. Thats why i have a hard time imagining someone could be so weak mined to succumb to something so minuscule." What does this have to do with anything? Having a mental illness isn't something you choose. You can't just fight off schizophrenia with your "very strong will power."

Try meth.

I've tried H, not very proud of it. But hey, here I am.

And then I said...

Try dementia.

Comparing drug addictions to mental illnesses and bringing up your apparent will power makes no sense because there is no will power involved with mental illness. It just happens to you and there's nothing you can do about it.

[saysmydoctor]

Have a child of your own and say that.

I really have a hard time understanding how sympathetic some people can be. Do people just not care if this shit happens to them?
Appeal to emotion?
Instant replay:









And then I said...



Comparing drug addictions to mental illnesses and bringing up your apparent will power makes no sense because there is no will power involved with mental illness. It just happens to you and there's nothing you can do about it.
Please keep posting in this forum.

[jessicalynn-xx]

Please keep posting in this forum.

Sarcasm?

[xshady121]

Instant replay:









And then I said...



Comparing drug addictions to mental illnesses and bringing up your apparent will power makes no sense because there is no will power involved with mental illness. It just happens to you and there's nothing you can do about it.


I don't know who you are, but you are easily one of the rising stars of this forum. As Sean would say, "keep eviscerating noobs"

[saysmydoctor]

Sarcasm?
No, I mean that.

[loveisdead]

No, I mean that.

I'll back this. She was posting in another thread not to long ago and I remember liking her.

[zion the lion]

Has anyone even mentioned the fact that prisons have taken the place of crazy hospitals?

[wall e]

Best post in this thread.

Thank you sir.

[xshady121]

Has anyone even mentioned the fact that prisons have taken the place of crazy hospitals?

You're thinking of Shutter Island. That wasn't a documentary.

[zion the lion]

You're thinking of Shutter Island. That wasn't a documentary.

I'm actually not, you can look it up if you want. Its a shame because its not helping anybody. I've talked about it before. A lot of mentally ill people are just being put in prison instead of being helped and then they're just having pills thrown at them, then they just get worse. Look at the numbers of mentally ill people in prisons...they just throw them in there because they have no idea what else to do with them.

And dont take me for a goddamn idiot anymore, I'm fucking tired of it. And I dont give a fuck about shutter island, that ending was obvious about 30 minutes into it.

[loveisdead]

I'm actually not, you can look it up if you want. Its a shame because its not helping anybody. I've talked about it before. A lot of mentally ill people are just being put in prison instead of being helped and then they're just having pills thrown at them, then they just get worse. Look at the numbers of mentally ill people in prisons...they just throw them in there because they have no idea what else to do with them.

And dont take me for a goddamn idiot anymore, I'm fucking tired of it. And I dont give a fuck about shutter island, that ending was obvious about 30 minutes into it.

You're the one making the point. You look it up and provide the evidence.

[zion the lion]

You're the one making the point. You look it up and provide the evidence.

You're the one doubting it, why dont you look it up. I only asked if anyone else had said it.

Hell if you want to be super dooper lazy about it you can watch mental health week on discovery channel (which is this week I think) they might have something on it. The nat geo channel had a special on solitary confinement, and their shows on jail always mention it. Just watch tv if you want.

[SophomoricSlump]

I think not charging her with anything is a mistake, obviously jai ltime isn't the right answer because she is in need of medical help. But they could've said something like house arrest and have a therapist meet with her several times during the week?
She definitely shouldn't have gotten off scotch free.

(One of the people in the article has the name Mankini. Haha.)

[loveisdead]

You're the one doubting it, why dont you look it up. I only asked if anyone else had said it.

Hell if you want to be super dooper lazy about it you can watch mental health week on discovery channel (which is this week I think) they might have something on it. The nat geo channel had a special on solitary confinement, and their shows on jail always mention it. Just watch tv if you want.

Because that isn't how it works. I know you're partially correct. But when making an argument, it is your responsibility to provide the evidence. Here at absolutepunk, we allow you to hyperlink articles so your post is easy to read but still provides the material necessary to communicate your point effectively.

[jessicalynn-xx]

I don't know who you are, but you are easily one of the rising stars of this forum. As Sean would say, "keep eviscerating noobs"

No, I mean that.

I'll back this. She was posting in another thread not to long ago and I remember liking her.

Thanks. :-)

[jessicalynn-xx]

Because that isn't how it works. I know you're partially correct. But when making an argument, it is your responsibility to provide the evidence. Here at absolutepunk, we allow you to hyperlink articles so your post is easy to read but still provides the material necessary to communicate your point effectively.

I laughed. So hard.

[loveisdead]

I laughed. So hard.

Haha, I'm glad.

[Machu505]

I'm so ashamed that I got here too late to point out that people aren't let wild into the streets when insanity is entered into the picture.

[loveisdead]

I'm so ashamed that I got here too late to point out that people aren't let wild into the streets when insanity is entered into the picture.

That's what you get for....I guess being in high school and probably being involved with some school club and getting home late? I dunno.

[Machu505]

That's what you get for....I guess being in high school and probably being involved with some school club and getting home late? I dunno.
Some intense orchestra practice.

[zion the lion]

Because that isn't how it works. I know you're partially correct. But when making an argument, it is your responsibility to provide the evidence. Here at absolutepunk, we allow you to hyperlink articles so your post is easy to read but still provides the material necessary to communicate your point effectively.

But I'm not the one making an argument, I'm the one bringing up a fact, someone else is trying to argue against that fact, shouldnt they be the one to provide the evidence?

[loveisdead]

But I'm not the one making an argument, I'm the one bringing up a fact, someone else is trying to argue against that fact, shouldnt they be the one to provide the evidence?

Not necessarily. Say for instance I was debating the senate race in Arizona. I would say something like, "It is a close race (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections2/election_2010/election_2010_senate_elections/arizona/election_2010_arizona_republican_pr imary_for_senate)."
That way I provide evidence of my fact and I don't have to have discussions like this. It's win win and very easy to do.

[caveBEAR]

You're thinking of Shutter Island. That wasn't a documentary.

:rotfl:

Made my night.

[xshady121]

I'm actually not, you can look it up if you want. Its a shame because its not helping anybody. I've talked about it before. A lot of mentally ill people are just being put in prison instead of being helped and then they're just having pills thrown at them, then they just get worse. Look at the numbers of mentally ill people in prisons...they just throw them in there because they have no idea what else to do with them.

And dont take me for a goddamn idiot anymore, I'm fucking tired of it. And I dont give a fuck about shutter island, that ending was obvious about 30 minutes into it.

All in good fun zion. You know I like you, I'm not the one that takes you for an idiot around these parts. I like to think you and I are one of the better friends on these boards.

And duh that ending was obvious from the moment he got on the island. I didn't call ruffalo being the doctor, but the rest of it was obvious.

[yayitsjoe]

Go on...

go on...?

[flask]

go on...?
I think he wants you to explain why you think temporary insanity is bullshit.

[perceptrons]

I think he wants you to explain why you think temporary insanity is bullshit.
Why yes, yes I do.

[saysmydoctor]

But I'm not the one making an argument, I'm the one bringing up a fact, someone else is trying to argue against that fact, shouldnt they be the one to provide the evidence?
DO NOT JOIN THE DEBATE TEAM.
Not necessarily. Say for instance I was debating the senate race in Arizona. I would say something like, "It is a close race (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections2/election_2010/election_2010_senate_elections/arizona/election_2010_arizona_republican_pr imary_for_senate)."
That way I provide evidence of my fact and I don't have to have discussions like this. It's win win and very easy to do.
Bad example.

[loveisdead]

DO NOT JOIN THE DEBATE TEAM.

Bad example.

Why?

[saysmydoctor]

Because recent polls that I've seen show McCain with a fairly comfortable lead: http://www.swingstateproject.com/diary/6859/azsen-azgov-mccain-slips-under-50-goddard-leads-brewer-by-6

Though not in the most comfortable position overall.

JK, dude.

It still works. :P

[loveisdead]

Because recent polls that I've seen show McCain with a fairly comfortable lead: http://www.swingstateproject.com/diary/6859/azsen-azgov-mccain-slips-under-50-goddard-leads-brewer-by-6

Though not in the most comfortable position overall.
Oh well what fucking ever. I was illustrating the use of hyperlinks.

[saysmydoctor]

teeehee edits.

[loveisdead]

teeehee edits.

I think it's funny that you didn't hyperlink fairly comfortble lead to the article haha. You're just trying to piss me off.

[saysmydoctor]

I can't be bothered with fancy text links.

[saysmydoctor]

Better yet, not guilty due to insanity.

[loveisdead]

Better yet, not guilty due to insanity.

Haha.

[Debut_Fin]

Personally, I have a hard time buying into the "mental illness" thing.

you are too much

my mom runs a day center for adults with mental illnesses since i was about 4 or 5 so i have grown up around people who are seriously sick

to say that their illnesses aren't real is more than a little offensive

[caveBEAR]

Personally, I have a hard time buying into the "mental illness" thing.

Ah, seeing this a second time doesn't alleviate the stupid. It's just as bad as the first time around.

You know what I've been having a hard time buying recently? This whole "gravity" thing.

[perceptrons]

Ah, seeing this a second time doesn't alleviate the stupid. It's just as bad as the first time around.

You know what I've been having a hard time buying recently? This whole "gravity" thing.
NO ONE KNOWS HOW IT WORKS

[xshady121]

Ah, seeing this a second time doesn't alleviate the stupid. It's just as bad as the first time around.

You know what I've been having a hard time buying recently? This whole "gravity" thing.

ITS JUST A THEORY.

[caveBEAR]

NO ONE KNOWS HOW IT WORKS!!!!

ITS JUST A THEORY.

Exactly. Until the Lord comes down and tells me gravity is real, I'll keep on believing that a very large creature underground is constantly inhaling, therefore keeping us firmly on the ground.

[perceptrons]

Exactly. Until the Lord comes down and tells me gravity is real, I'll keep on believing that a very large creature underground is constantly inhaling, therefore keeping us firmly on the ground.
Why wait? We all know that's what happens anyway.

[caveBEAR]

Why wait? We all know that's what happens anyway.

Because I would not be so bold as to assume I know everything, I just know that everyone else is wrong.

[IntoTheSun]

temporary insanity is even bigger bullshit.

what?

[zion the lion]

Not necessarily. Say for instance I was debating the senate race in Arizona. I would say something like, "It is a close race (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections2/election_2010/election_2010_senate_elections/arizona/election_2010_arizona_republican_pr imary_for_senate)."
That way I provide evidence of my fact and I don't have to have discussions like this. It's win win and very easy to do.

I avoid doing links because if I do, I get tempted to do multiple links to prove the point and prove the validity of the links and then prove the reasoning why it is what it is, and I know people are too lazy to go through any of that so I just dont.

I seriously started doing it with this and then I decided to say fuck it because I didnt feel like just going through all of that for nothing.

All in good fun zion. You know I like you, I'm not the one that takes you for an idiot around these parts. I like to think you and I are one of the better friends on these boards.

And duh that ending was obvious from the moment he got on the island. I didn't call ruffalo being the doctor, but the rest of it was obvious.

I didnt even catch that movie from the beginning (he was already on the Island when I got in the theater) but god it was so obvious. Ruffalo being the doctor was the only twist for me but god it almost made me feel crazy because then I felt like the "twist" couldnt be that obvious so I was second guessing myself the whole time but then I felt like it too obvious to not be it. But I liked how he went for the lobotomy in the end.

DO NOT JOIN THE DEBATE TEAM.

Bad example.

I'd win every debate.

[anamericangod]

Less than 1% of court cases occur with a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity. Only 1/4 of those are successful. In 80% of these successful pleas, the prosecution has agreed to the appropriateness of the plea.

It's a legitimate defense for those who are genuinely affected by mental disorders.

Word for word what I came here to post. You know your stuff.

[Gumbyjag]

Knowing very little of law practice, I will ask a question:

How are lawyers inclined to defend someone claiming that they are not guilty due to insanity? Is there much research of the client involved (past involvement with the law, family members with mental illnesses, medical history, etc) or do lawyers have a preset defense in these sort of cases? It was said that Less than 1% of court cases occur with the plea, so I want to understand how much of a curveball that would be to the lawyer involved, if at all, or are they taught how to handle such rare cases with ease?

[bung]

Knowing very little of law practice, I will ask a question:

How are lawyers inclined to defend someone claiming that they are not guilty due to insanity? Is there much research of the client involved (past involvement with the law, family members with mental illnesses, medical history, etc) or do lawyers have a preset defense in these sort of cases? It was said that Less than 1% of court cases occur with the plea, so I want to understand how much of a curveball that would be to the lawyer involved, if at all, or are they taught how to handle such rare cases with ease?

(past involvement with the law, family members with mental illnesses, medical history, etc) -- All of that, plus a mandatory psychiatric evaluation and testimony by a professional.

Another statistic: In 2/3 of successful insanity pleas the defendant is diagnosed as schizophrenic.

Also:

"In 1992, in the case of Foucha v. Louisiana, the U.S. Supreme Court clarified that the only acceptable basis for determining the release of hospitalized offenders is whether or not they are still "insane," ; they cannot be kept indefinitely in mental hospitals solely because they are still dangerous. Some states are able to maintain control over offenders even after their release from hospitals. The states may insist on community treatment, monitor the patients closely, and re-hospitalize them if necessary."

"I feel the insanity defense should be retained. I bear no grudge against John Hinckley, but I sure don't hope he wins the Irish Sweepstakes." --James Brady, presidential news secretary shot by John Hinckley

All my facts and quotes come from this book, published in 2009:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41URdXoJEdL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

[perceptrons]

All my facts and quotes come from this book, published in 2009:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41URdXoJEdL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
I figured you had the same book.

[yayitsjoe]

what?

okay. i'm no expert. i'm not a judge nor a lawyer nor a detective, and i don't want to be any of them. but i do love me some law and order: special victims unit. and, i've seen on there that criminals have plead "not guilty due to temporary insanity." like, one guy raped and killed his girlfriend because she had cheated on him. he pleaded that he had so much rage built up in him that he went insane, and he didn't know what he was doing.

i think it's bullshit.

[loveisdead]

okay. i'm no expert. i'm not a judge nor a lawyer nor a detective, and i don't want to be any of them. but i do love me some law and order: special victims unit. and, i've seen on there that criminals have plead "not guilty due to temporary insanity." like, one guy raped and killed his girlfriend because she had cheated on him. he pleaded that he had so much rage built up in him that he went insane, and he didn't know what he was doing.

i think it's bullshit.

That's a tv show. This is real life.

[caveBEAR]

okay. i'm no expert. i'm not a judge nor a lawyer nor a detective, and i don't want to be any of them. but i do love me some law and order: special victims unit. and, i've seen on there that criminals have plead "not guilty due to temporary insanity." like, one guy raped and killed his girlfriend because she had cheated on him. he pleaded that he had so much rage built up in him that he went insane, and he didn't know what he was doing.

i think it's bullshit.

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/fatys/stuff/picard-facepalm.jpg

[yayitsjoe]

so i assume you guys think that "temporary" insanity is a good excuse to kill somebody?

[caveBEAR]

so i assume you guys think that "temporary" insanity is a good excuse to kill somebody?

No, we are aware that the insanity plea, let alone the temporary insanity plea, is so infrequently used, as well as so infrequently works, that it is not worth worrying about. As well, you don't get to go free, the insanity plea just removes the person from general prison and instead puts them into a mental hospital. They don't just go free. It's not used as an 'excuse', it's used as an attempt to keep someone from going to prison if they acted due to mental instability rather than pure criminal behavior.

[loveisdead]

so i assume you guys think that "temporary" insanity is a good excuse to kill somebody?

No it isn't a good excuse. Use your head. This isn't what people are saying.

[bung]

Pretty much. I take a criminal law class and we went over the "insanity" plea. Firstly, it's rarely used and even in the few cases it is used, the success rate is very low. Secondly, even if the defendant is proven not guilty by reason of insanity, the court will most likely sentence the defendant to some mental institution for a very long time. So they never really walk out of the court "free".

I alluded to this above, but a person isn't sentenced to a mental hospital for a set period of time. Theoretically, it's possible to commit murder, plead not guilty be reason of insanity and win, and be out of a mental institution in less than a year. Their release all depends upon whether or not they are still considered clinically "insane."

However, it's very, very rare that that would ever be the case. If you succeed in pleading insanity, chances are that you're, for lack of a better term, pretty fucked up in the head and will be there for quite some time.

[yayitsjoe]

i suck at debating/trying to get my point across.

[RedWineSheets]

Knowing very little of law practice, I will ask a question:

How are lawyers inclined to defend someone claiming that they are not guilty due to insanity? Is there much research of the client involved (past involvement with the law, family members with mental illnesses, medical history, etc) or do lawyers have a preset defense in these sort of cases? It was said that Less than 1% of court cases occur with the plea, so I want to understand how much of a curveball that would be to the lawyer involved, if at all, or are they taught how to handle such rare cases with ease?

Basically insanity, infancy, intoxication(involuntary) negate criminal capacity.

Procedure: Defendant presumed sane. Defendant has the burden of raising defense of insanity (burden of production) he must present evidence raising reasonable doubt of sanity, then burden persuasion shifts to prosecution to prove sanity beyond reasonable doubt. There are a lot of splits in jurisdictions.

[caveBEAR]

i suck at debating/trying to get my point across.

Yes, admitting that you're not an expert and using a television show as your source is pretty well defined as 'sucking' at debating.

[perceptrons]

okay. i'm no expert. i'm not a judge nor a lawyer nor a detective, and i don't want to be any of them. but i do love me some law and order: special victims unit. and, i've seen on there that criminals have plead "not guilty due to temporary insanity." like, one guy raped and killed his girlfriend because she had cheated on him. he pleaded that he had so much rage built up in him that he went insane, and he didn't know what he was doing.

i think it's bullshit.
Here's the thing, depending on the state there are different things that fly as "not guilty by reason of insanity." The basic, and oldest one is the M'Naghten test, which states that the person at the time of the crime was unable to discern right from wrong. The other test, which is used in less than half of the states, is the American Law Institute (ALI) test, which includes the same criteria as the M'Naghten test, but also allows for what's known as "irresistible impulse." What you are describing sounds much more like irresistible impulse, which again, only flies in less than half of the states. Federal and about half of state courts go by the M'Naghten test, which doesn't allow for irresistible impulse. Idaho, Kansas, Montana, Nevada and Utah don't allow the insanity plea, for the most part.

[yayitsjoe]

Yes, admitting that you're not an expert and using a television show as your source is pretty well defined as 'sucking' at debating.

oh well.

[RedWineSheets]

Here's the thing, depending on the state there are different things that fly as "not guilty by reason of insanity." The basic, and oldest one is the M'Naghten test, which states that the person at the time of the crime was unable to discern right from wrong. The other test, which is used in less than half of the states, is the American Law Institute (ALI) test, which includes the same criteria as the M'Naghten test, but also allows for what's known as "irresistible impulse." What you are describing sounds much more like irresistible impulse, which again, only flies in less than half of the states. Federal and about half of state courts go by the M'Naghten test, which doesn't allow for irresistible impulse. Idaho, Kansas, Montana, Nevada and Utah don't allow the insanity plea, for the most part.

the website says you quoted me in my "who quoted me". weird. must be some sort of error.

[Gumbyjag]

(past involvement with the law, family members with mental illnesses, medical history, etc) -- All of that, plus a mandatory psychiatric evaluation and testimony by a professional.

Another statistic: In 2/3 of successful insanity pleas the defendant is diagnosed as schizophrenic.

Also:

"In 1992, in the case of Foucha v. Louisiana, the U.S. Supreme Court clarified that the only acceptable basis for determining the release of hospitalized offenders is whether or not they are still "insane," ; they cannot be kept indefinitely in mental hospitals solely because they are still dangerous. Some states are able to maintain control over offenders even after their release from hospitals. The states may insist on community treatment, monitor the patients closely, and re-hospitalize them if necessary."

"I feel the insanity defense should be retained. I bear no grudge against John Hinckley, but I sure don't hope he wins the Irish Sweepstakes." --James Brady, presidential news secretary shot by John Hinckley

All my facts and quotes come from this book, published in 2009:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41URdXoJEdL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Basically insanity, infancy, intoxication(involuntary) negate criminal capacity.

Procedure: Defendant presumed sane. Defendant has the burden of raising defense of insanity (burden of production) he must present evidence raising reasonable doubt of sanity, then burden persuasion shifts to prosecution to prove sanity beyond reasonable doubt. There are a lot of splits in jurisdictions.


thanks for the solid answers.