The OFFICIAL LGBT Rights thread.

[Mercy Medical]

I figure there are a lot of individual threads out there regarding LGBT rights whether it be legalization of gay marriage, DADT, LGBT Pride month, etc that we might as well just make one big thread dedicated to all things LGBT rights related. Maybe this is redundant, but I suppose it prevents other threads from getting off topic a bit and allows for a wide variety of discussion on this topic.

Anyway, to start it off...The Advocate is apparently reporting that LGBT activists might be getting in the way of the repeal of DADT.

Are gay rights activists standing in the way of “don’t ask, don’t tell” being repealed?

Not according to the Human Rights Campaign, which issued the following statement to The Advocate about The Daily Beast’s report that gay rights leaders have made a deal with senators and members of the House to not push for an end to "don’t ask, don’t tell" until sometime next year.

"This story is not only an outright lie, it is recklessly irresponsible. HRC never made such a deal and continues to work with congress and the administration on a full range of equality issues including a swift end to the military's shameful ban on gay service members."

According to Bellini, gay rights organizations want Washington to focus on the hate-crimes bill and the Employment Non-Discrimination Act.

Source (http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid88337.asp)

The HRC is denying these claims, although, I don't really see the negative aspects of this idea. I mean, yea it's sort of crappy to make a deal like that, but it is politics and if they can make deals to potentially get us further ahead in the game, that's great. At this point I'll take just about anything and a employment non-discrimination act would be fantastic as I could finally bring pictures of my girlfriend into work without worry...

[Mercy Medical]

Pennsylvania has dueling marriage laws to be considered in the PA senate.

The Pennsylvania senate will soon be considering opposing pieces of legislation regarding same-sex marriage. Hoping to catch the pro-gay-marriage New England momentum, Sen. Daylin Leach is introducing the state’s first bill to recognize same-sex marriage.

Meanwhile, Sen. John Eichelberger is preparing to introduce a constitutional amendment that would ban same-sex marriage and consequently prevent courts from from legalizing such unions, as they had in California and Iowa.

Source (http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid88251.asp)

Historically speaking, PA has has both laws go through the senate before and neither passed. As much as I would LOVE gay marriage to be legalized in my state, I would prefer that it remain in purgatory then to have a constitutional amendment banning it. I don't really see the legalizing bill to pass, knowing the demographic of most of PA. PA tends to be a fairly conservative state with the exception of the large cities.

[Jason Tate]

Gay Penguins!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31123391/

[saysmydoctor]

Those penguins obviously made a choice to be gay.

:rolleyes:

[Machu505]

Penguins are destroying society.

[saysmydoctor]

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/06/05/mchugh-dadt-change/
McHugh, the nomineee for Army Secretary, approves of a DADT change

[Praetor]

Gay Penguins!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31123391/
Figures that a story like that is on a liberal, secular rag like MSNBC. Next time link to a respectable source (http://www.glennbeck.com/).

[Praetor]

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/06/05/mchugh-dadt-change/
McHugh, the nomineee for Army Secretary, approves of a DADT change
Yeah, they can talk the talk, but when Obama says that he's not going to intervene in the firings of gay servicemen/women it's hard for me to believe that anything substantive will happen on this front.

[GuitarR0cker1]

Gay Penguins!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31123391/
THOSE PENGUINS ARE DESTROYING PENGUIN FAMILY VALUES!

x

[saysmydoctor]

Yeah, they can talk the talk, but when Obama says that he's not going to intervene in the firings of gay servicemen/women it's hard for me to believe that anything substantive will happen on this front.
Truth.

[Losing Streak]

God forbid if those gay penguins are allowed to raise children. You'll have kid penguins growing up confused and unable to function in the larger normal penguin society.

[Praetor]

God forbid if those gay penguins are allowed to raise children. You'll have kid penguins growing up confused and unable to function in the larger normal penguin society.
Gay penguins only raise gay penguin children. It's a vicious cycle that will never be broken.

[registered]

Gay Penguins!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31123391/
Those penguins cant be gay. I mean most penguins wear a tux and have a sense of style but look at these gay penguins, nothing fancy at all.

[Charles777]

Fuckin penguins, poisoning my young mind.

[Machu505]

I love how most of this thread has been a discussion on how penguins are destroying family values and shit.

[MyNameIsRoss]

Gay penguins make me smile.

[Machu505]

Gay penguins make me smile.

Fabulous.

[saysmydoctor]

Think the gay marriage bill may be before the NYSenate this week, could be off. But it looks bound to fail.

[GuitarR0cker1]

I got into a gay marriage fight on facebook like two times. T'was stupid.

[Praetor]

Think the gay marriage bill may be before the NYSenate this week, could be off. But it looks bound to fail.
I dunno, man, Democrats have control (albeit slim). Plus, according to Senator Duane there are a few Republicans on board.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/06/02/2009-06-02_progay_nups_pol_itll_pass.html

[saysmydoctor]

A lot of Dems have come out against like NY-23 maybe-candidate Darrel Aubertine.

Valesky also has even said where he stands

[Machu505]

I hope that the NY Senate will ride on the as-of-yet unstopped momentum same-sex marriage has had this year.

[Justin_stacy]

SC won't hear case concerning DADT.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D98MHV380&show_article=1

[saysmydoctor]

I just read that. Good to see a Court with no backbone.

[Love As Arson]

Activists Discuss Next Step For Gay Rights Movement (http://socialistworker.org/2009/06/03/next-steps-for-our-movement)

[saysmydoctor]

Don't know if anyone watched Maddow's piece of the Supreme Court denial to hear a case concerning DADT today, she had Representative Holt on.

[saysmydoctor]

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/06/11/oreilly-fox-news-lgbt/
hJfEMmmWYGM



Now correct me if I'm wrong, God made humans in his image and they are considered his best and brightest creation. But these penguins were made this way, to be gay, but humans make the choice? That defies genetics and science.

[zion the lion]

demonstrators at an assembly meeting for an anti discrimination law for gays (http://www.ktuu.com/global/video/flash/popupplayer.asp?ClipID1=3849940&h1=Hundreds%20of%20demonstrators%20 mob%20Assembly%20meeting&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=128967&LaunchPageAdTag=News&activePane=info&rnd=43762677)

30 seconds in, there's the main opinion that I got when I was there and asked why people were against this law being passed. I was there two nights ago to speak but this list was so long that I didnt get a chance to. I might go next week though to speak.

70% of the crowd were in red shirts (opposing this law) and the rest were in blue (supporting it).

All this law is saying is that you cant fire or deny a gay person the job if theyre qualified just because of their sexuality. And you cant evict or deny a person housing just because of their sexual orientation. A lot of the people opposing seem to think it would allow transgendered women in to the women's bathroom where they would be able to watch other women go to the bathroom, or molest little kids. And church leaders oppose this because they wouldnt be able to deny a gay person a job at their church, unless they give up their tax exempt status.

[saysmydoctor]

http://www.americablog.com/2009/06/obama-doj-lies-to-politico-in-defending.html
:appl: :appl:

DoJ doesn't need to bullshit me.

[saysmydoctor]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/06/newsom-calls-doj-support-of-defense-of-marriage-act-a-big-mistake-villaraigosa-expresses-concern.html
Newsom and Villaraigosa express concern over DOJ defense of DOMA

[Charles777]

I happened to stumble upon the pride parade last night. People were yelling things at them and it disgusted me.

[saysmydoctor]

http://www.americablog.com/2009/06/top-gay-in-administration-says-enda.html
This is truly disgusting in my opinion.

[Mercy Medical]

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/06/11/oreilly-fox-news-lgbt/
hJfEMmmWYGM



Now create me if I'm wrong, God made humans in his image and they are considered his best and brightest creation. But these penguins were made this way, to be gay, but humans make the choice? That defies genetics and science.
Well, penguins being less superior beings then us, obvious do not have the ability to make choices nor do they have a conscious. They can't help who they are! GOSH!

[Machu505]

A marriage equality bill has been introduced (http://cumberlink.com/articles/2009/06/14/news/local/doc4a349052762db249620833.txt) in Pennsylvania.

[Charles777]

That's awesome. And Dennis Miller is a douche.

[Machu505]

It probably won't succeed though.

[Charles777]

I think it will.

[Mercy Medical]

A marriage equality bill has been introduced (http://cumberlink.com/articles/2009/06/14/news/local/doc4a349052762db249620833.txt) in Pennsylvania.
Yea, from what I hear that is going to get pushed back because they have the budget to worry about right now. There is a competing bill that would create a constitutional amendment making marriage exclusively between a man and woman. Both bills have been introduced before and neither have passed. I expect the same this time around.

[Machu505]

I think it will.
In your Senate, the Republican have a 60/40 majority and in the House, the Democrats have only a small majority. And it's, well... Pennsylvania.

[Mercy Medical]

I think it will.
Go here (http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/home/member_information/senators_alpha.cfm) and count the number of Democrats then count the number of Republicans...

[Mercy Medical]

Has anyone been paying attention to what went on with that DOMA brief? I only really paid attention to it today when someone posted a link (http://www.obamasplanforgayrights.com/) on twitter which then directed me to this (http://www.americablog.com/2009/06/obama-justice-department-defends-doma.html) article...

We just got the brief from reader Lavi Soloway. It's pretty despicable, and gratuitously homophobic. It reads as if it were written by one of George Bush's top political appointees. I cannot state strongly enough how damaging this brief is to us. Obama didn't just argue a technicality about the case, he argued that DOMA is reasonable. That DOMA is constitutional. That DOMA wasn't motivated by any anti-gay animus. He argued why our Supreme Court victories in Roemer and Lawrence shouldn't be interpreted to give us rights in any other area (which hurts us in countless other cases and battles). He argued that DOMA doesn't discriminate against us because it also discriminates about straight unmarried couples (ignoring the fact that they can get married and we can't).

I'm not quite sure how I missed all of this the past few days, but HOLY SHIT. I didn't read the entire article because it was rather lengthy, but my jaw has honestly dropped. Now, I doubt that Obama has actually read this (maybe not doubt, but hope), but it still infuriates me that something like this comes from an administration that has constantly proclaimed it was a friend to the LGBT community and it would fight for our rights. It feels like betrayal. As part of the LGBT community, I feel completely lied to yet again. Clinton did this before when he signed DOMA into law. I will continue to feel betrayed and lied to until something is said or done about this. Large donors such as the HRC (http://www.americablog.com/2009/06/breaking-hrc-and-former-top-clinton.html) have pulled out of the DNC gay fundraiser in protest.

The briefing itself sounds like Dr. James Dobson himself wrote it. The little I have read is actually quite disgusting.

[Praetor]

Not that disgusting, in my opinion. Comparing homosexuality to pedophilia sounds like the work of a rational mind.

[Charles777]

Good point.

Edit: That was for the two dudes that quoted me.

[Mercy Medical]

Not that disgusting, in my opinion. Comparing homosexuality to pedophilia sounds like the work of a rational mind.I sincerely hope that is sarcasm, but judging by other posts I've seen from you, I assume that it is. Haha

Good point.

Edit: That was for the two dudes that quoted me.I have a vagina...

[Charles777]

I sincerely hope that is sarcasm, but judging by other posts I've seen from you, I assume that it is. Haha

I have a vagina...
Damn, I'm sorry. I usually judge that kind of thing by avatar. Again, I'm sorry, hahaha

[Machu505]

I sincerely hope that is sarcasm, but judging by other posts I've seen from you, I assume that it is. Haha

I have a vagina...

:rotfl:

[Charles777]

I feel like an asshole now

[SincerelyMe]

Found this interesting:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/118378/Majority-Americans-Continue-Oppose-Gay-Marriage.aspx

[Praetor]

Found this interesting:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/118378/Majority-Americans-Continue-Oppose-Gay-Marriage.aspxAmericans are bigoted and closed-minded. Also, water is wet. Story at 11.

Seriously though, most interesting/annoying part of that article?

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/ebjr69jfvu6et5yuzebjiw.gif

If you oppose gay marriage then you're not a conservative. Republican...yeah. Conservative...not a chance. Isn't the typical conservative rallying cry "less government interference"? Pretty stark contrast to this Republican take on conservatism, which is "less government interference unless you're a homosexual".

[Praetor]

Americans are bigoted and closed-minded. Also, water is wet. Story at 11.

Seriously though, most interesting/annoying part of that article?

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/ebjr69jfvu6et5yuzebjiw.gif

If you oppose gay marriage then you're not a conservative. Republican...yeah. Conservative...not a chance. Isn't the typical conservative rallying cry "less government interference"? Pretty stark contrast to this Republican take on conservatism, which is "less government interference unless you're a homosexual".
Correction: or a woman.

[Machu505]

Obama is going to extend benefits (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_obama_gay_benefits) to partners of LGBT federal employees.

[saysmydoctor]

So here is how it works for gays in the Obama administration

Diplomats from other nations and their partners: get rights
Government employees and their partners: get rights
Average citizen who makes up the vast majority of the population: we're going to wait

[WarpSpeedChewy]

Just want to say as a preamble that I agree with pretty much everything mostly everyone has said, but I think some of the impatient is misguided. The time for the issue is pretty close but I'm not completely sure it's the appropriate time to start acting on it. This issue needs the room for something to happen. Either way I think something will happen with it sooner than most think. It's going to be coming to the administration and not the other way around. They need to meet them in the middle soon.

[open mind]

gay/lesbian folks will gain more rights as our population gets younger.

the current crop of idiots running things (and those who vote them into office) will probably never see the error of thier ways.

[Praetor]

So here is how it works for gays in the Obama administration

Diplomats from other nations and their partners: get rights
Government employees and their partners: get rights
Average citizen who makes up the vast majority of the population: we're going to wait
THE LOGIC IS UNDENIABLE

[Praetor]

Has he done anything for LGBT rights other than of those for government employees/diplomats? Anything?

Fuck him. Yeah, that's change we can believe in.

[Mercy Medical]

Americans are bigoted and closed-minded. Also, water is wet. Story at 11.

Seriously though, most interesting/annoying part of that article?

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/ebjr69jfvu6et5yuzebjiw.gif

If you oppose gay marriage then you're not a conservative. Republican...yeah. Conservative...not a chance. Isn't the typical conservative rallying cry "less government interference"? Pretty stark contrast to this Republican take on conservatism, which is "less government interference unless you're a homosexual".
I've honestly never understood the Republican party and their whole idea of less government interference.....unless it comes to social matters! Then as much government interference as possible!

[Mercy Medical]

Has he done anything for LGBT rights other than of those for government employees/diplomats? Anything?

Fuck him. Yeah, that's change we can believe in.
While I'm pretty upset with Obama's lack of action in regards to LGBT rights, I suppose it's somewhat understandable. I mean, I guess every group he made promises too would hope those changes would come on day one. The economy is in the shitter, North Korea is acting crazy and a lot of other issues are going on. I'm frustrated, to say the least, in regards to what has happened for LGBT rights thus far. I think most of my current frustration comes from the DoJ DOMA brief and Obama's lack of saying anything about it. I am trying to be patient, for the most part and am trying to realize that he hasn't been in office very long in the scheme of things.

Honestly, at this point I wish he would just go on record and make a statement about that DOMA brief. That's probably the worst thing that has happened so far. The language used in that brief is inexcusable, ESPECIALLY coming from the government and his administration. If he would come out and make a statement about that, then I think I could be patient for a while.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

“The number of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people killed in bias-motivated incidents increased by 28 percent in 2008 compared to a year ago,” according to the National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs. Last year’s 29 killings was also the highest number recorded since 1999 (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hfiJDIIYGyqrVkfoQcxVwLcbbvjQD 98RU8QO3), with the debates over LGBT issues being “possible flash points” that are sparking a “backlash.”

sad.

[saysmydoctor]

Empire State Pride Agenda called Obama the fuck out, priceless. :appl:

[Mercy Medical]

Empire State Pride Agenda called Obama the fuck out, priceless. :appl:
Link?

[saysmydoctor]

Link?
It wasn't an official announcement but:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0609/Obama_to_extend_benefits_to_samesex _partners.html

The executive director of the Empire State Pride Agenda, a large state-based gay rights group, Alan Van Capelle, greeted today's announcement sarcastically.

"Welcome to 1999," he told POLITICO. "How revolutionary of the White House to give benefits to same-sex couples, when two-thirds of conservative Wall Street are already doing it. What an achievement."

"It's just one of the things that should have been done in January," Van Capelle, who was among those taking his name off the Biden event, said, calling for a "comprehensive strategy." "If the President makes the announcement tomorrow, it will still fall short of what LGBT people are expecting from this administration."
And if you read the rest of the article, government employee partners will not be extended health and retirement benefits.

[Mercy Medical]

That DNC gay fundraiser is going to be a gigantic bust. Hopefully this tells the White House that the LGBT is done fucking around and is tired of being fucked over by democratic Presidents who promise them things, but never follow through.

And this gives me even more inspiration and motivation to attend the National Equality March in DC in October.

[saysmydoctor]

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/6/17/743460/-Obama-reacts-to-angry-LGBT-community-...-with-relocation-assistance
Relocation assistance instead.

Seriously, can you just stop turning the knife you've inserted in the collective back of LGBT community?

[WarpSpeedChewy]

While I'm pretty upset with Obama's lack of action in regards to LGBT rights, I suppose it's somewhat understandable. I mean, I guess every group he made promises too would hope those changes would come on day one. The economy is in the shitter, North Korea is acting crazy and a lot of other issues are going on. I'm frustrated, to say the least, in regards to what has happened for LGBT rights thus far. I think most of my current frustration comes from the DoJ DOMA brief and Obama's lack of saying anything about it. I am trying to be patient, for the most part and am trying to realize that he hasn't been in office very long in the scheme of things.

Honestly, at this point I wish he would just go on record and make a statement about that DOMA brief. That's probably the worst thing that has happened so far. The language used in that brief is inexcusable, ESPECIALLY coming from the government and his administration. If he would come out and make a statement about that, then I think I could be patient for a while.
This is pretty much how I feel about it. I am greatly irritated by some of the ignorance the issue is being given and as a support I think it's a giant mistake in a lot of ways. I don't doubt that Obama is sincere about it, but his administration can't manage the issue for their convenience anymore. This issue is going to be coming to them. I want to withhold judgment on them until they are given or decide to deal with the issue fully.

That DNC gay fundraiser is going to be a gigantic bust. Hopefully this tells the White House that the LGBT is done fucking around and is tired of being fucked over by democratic Presidents who promise them things, but never follow through.
This. Fucking around like this is going to have major consequences.

[Praetor]

While I'm pretty upset with Obama's lack of action in regards to LGBT rights, I suppose it's somewhat understandable. I mean, I guess every group he made promises too would hope those changes would come on day one. The economy is in the shitter, North Korea is acting crazy and a lot of other issues are going on. I'm frustrated, to say the least, in regards to what has happened for LGBT rights thus far. I think most of my current frustration comes from the DoJ DOMA brief and Obama's lack of saying anything about it. I am trying to be patient, for the most part and am trying to realize that he hasn't been in office very long in the scheme of things.
Understandable, sure. He's a politician. Disappointing? You bet.

And like you said, it's not like he's just not acting on behalf of the LGBT community. That brief coming from his administration didn't just a decision on the backburner...it supported DOMA and condemned not only gay marriage, but homosexuality in general. I mean...what is this, 2006? I thought that we had a relatively progressive liberal in office?
Honestly, at this point I wish he would just go on record and make a statement about that DOMA brief. That's probably the worst thing that has happened so far. The language used in that brief is inexcusable, ESPECIALLY coming from the government and his administration. If he would come out and make a statement about that, then I think I could be patient for a while. A statement will not do shit for me, I'm tired of this bullshit. That's all we've ever gotten out of this president on LGBT issues; words. Yes yes, I know, it wasn't Obama himself, it was the Department of Justice...whatever. If you're not involved in the government and you're gay...sucks for you, I guess.
Empire State Pride Agenda called Obama the fuck out, priceless. :appl:
I am really very happy with their work on getting the word around. I've seen a surprising numbers of commercials lately pushing the NYS gay marriage bill. Now that summer's here I have been thinking about volunteering but I dunno if it will work out.

[Mercy Medical]

A statement will not do shit for me, I'm tired of this bullshit. That's all we've ever gotten out of this president on LGBT issues; words. Yes yes, I know, it wasn't Obama himself, it was the Department of Justice...whatever. If you're not involved in the government and you're gay...sucks for you, I guess.at this point, it would do something. Like I said previously, dude has A LOT on his plate and a lot of issues that I see more important then LGBT issues like the economy and health insurance, mainly because those things effect all of us while LGBT issues only effect a minority of people (that's not to say they aren't important to me because they obviously are, but I see other issues as a higher priority).

I would love quick action in regards to LGBT issues, but I can be patient. I'm not expecting him to get rid of DADT or DOMA tomorrow. With that in mind, that is why a statement would appease me at this moment in time. I've read other website proclaiming that people shouldn't be so up in arms about the brief as they are and I understand, but some of that language...whether it was meant to be hurtful or not...was completely unnecessary. Incest and pederasty? REALLY? It's saving the government money. HONESTLY? That was some of the most fucked up an ignorant bullshit I have ever heard come from a President's administration in regards to LGBT issues. Now, granted, I was told that the individual who wrote the brief was actually someone from Bush's administration, but still...what the fuck?

[x togepi x]

i like the fact that these benefits really aren't anything at all. yeah, no health care, no retirement benefits, just some minor things. yet another thing democrats can say they did for the gay community without doing something for the gay community. it's really making me sick.

[saysmydoctor]

i like the fact that these benefits really aren't anything at all. yeah, no health care, no retirement benefits, just some minor things. yet another thing democrats can say they did for the gay community without doing something for the gay community. it's really making me sick.
Relocation assistance dude!! :rolleyes:

I guess this will probably incense you more:

http://www.americablog.com/2009/06/gibbs-president-stands-behind.html

[saysmydoctor]

http://www.americablog.com/2009/06/is-obama-giving-federal-agencies-right.html
Good to know that the executive order was simply symbolic and didn't change anything.

[x togepi x]

Relocation assistance dude!! :rolleyes:

I guess this will probably incense you more:

http://www.americablog.com/2009/06/gibbs-president-stands-behind.html

i can't be more mad than i was when i found out obama used to support "gay marriage" when he started politics but now kind of but not really supports "civil unions".

[Praetor]

at this point, it would do something. Like I said previously, dude has A LOT on his plate and a lot of issues that I see more important then LGBT issues like the economy and health insurance, mainly because those things effect all of us while LGBT issues only effect a minority of people (that's not to say they aren't important to me because they obviously are, but I see other issues as a higher priority).
Yeah, but still, it's not like his administration is neglecting the gay rights issue...they're actually speaking out against it/taking (non-)action on it (see: DOMA brief, the administration's active refusal to interfere in DADT firings, the President's apparent support and promised defense of DOMA, etc.) and that's why I don't think that the "he's busy" argument works. And, like already pointed out, this whole executive order business is completely symbolic and is constructed primarily to dangle a carrot in front of the gay community so they don't turn their back on Obama. I dunno, I just feel it's reprehensible for him to be playing politics when he got elected on the premise of "fixing Washington". He's essentially bought into the game that he said he would stay above.

I would love quick action in regards to LGBT issues, but I can be patient. I'm not expecting him to get rid of DADT or DOMA tomorrow. Do you really think that he has plans to? I mean, he's already said that he won't interfere in DADT firings and there's this from the AMERICAblog article (http://www.americablog.com/2009/06/gibbs-president-stands-behind.html) (not exactly unbiased, and hasn't been confirmed yet, so take it for what it is):

One more thing. The President will reportedly say tonight that he opposes DOMA. He's not going to oppose the law however, he's going to keep defending it in court. But in his heart he opposes it. Aw thanks.
With that in mind, that is why a statement would appease me at this moment in time. I've read other website proclaiming that people shouldn't be so up in arms about the brief as they are and I understand, but some of that language...whether it was meant to be hurtful or not...was completely unnecessary. Incest and pederasty? REALLY? It's saving the government money. HONESTLY? That was some of the most fucked up an ignorant bullshit I have ever heard come from a President's administration in regards to LGBT issues. Now, granted, I was told that the individual who wrote the brief was actually someone from Bush's administration, but still...what the fuck? Doesn't surprise me that he was a holdover from the Bush admin. Still, even if the admin thought that way...why would you say it? The ignorance and inanity of the statement aside...it's not politically smart. Plain and simple.

i like the fact that these benefits really aren't anything at all. yeah, no health care, no retirement benefits, just some minor things. yet another thing democrats can say they did for the gay community without doing something for the gay community. it's really making me sick.
It blows my mind that people like the daughter of John fucking McCain are out-liberal-ing the President on this one.

[Machu505]

I love how the only person in here defending Obama is gay haha.

[Praetor]

I love how the only person in here defending Obama is gay haha.
haha yeah, kind of ironic how the only one of us with any real stake in this is defending him. :-p

[x togepi x]

except, you know, for me.

[Praetor]

except, you know, for me.
haha oops, sorry. Let me reword that:

The only one defending him is somebody who actually has a stake in it.

[x togepi x]

haha yeah. it's way better than on kos where you see a bunch of heterosexual people being basically like shut the fuck up gays we don't give a fuck you're lucky we have obama.

[Praetor]

Wait, isn't Kos a liberal blog? lol. Sounds like something you'd hear from the comments section of a Glenn Beck fansite.

[x togepi x]

the same sentiment was expressed here when i complained about the warren convocation.

[Praetor]

To be honest I still don't think it was that big a deal. He's a huge douchebag and his whole "gay rehab" shit is despicable and everything but him saying a prayer didn't really bother me too much. But I see why it would upset people.

[x togepi x]

To be honest I still don't think it was that big a deal. He's a huge douchebag and his whole "gay rehab" shit is despicable and everything but him saying a prayer didn't really bother me too much. But I see why it would upset people.

it's the second time he's done this exact thing. that's why it's a big deal. it's like, yeah accidentally saying something racist might not be a big deal, but when you do it over and over then something's fishy if you call yourself anti-racism.

[saysmydoctor]

DailyKos drinks the koolaid heavy. AmericaBlog got your back.

[GuitarR0cker1]

I have never been pleased at how Obama treated Gay Rights but I definitley think that there are more pressing issues right now that he has to do deal with. This doesn't change the fact that I dislike everything he has done relating to the issue but I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt for some more time. I would be angry if this was a time of prosperity in America, and the two wars were winding down but the fact is that we are in a large economic mess, have a fucked up health care system and we are embroiled in one war and winding down in another one. Right now is not the time to deal with a hot button issue. Some more progress should have been made by now, especially on DADT but it can wait. If Obama pushes this issue(not DADT but something more national) in 2010 or 2011 there will be more support and it would be a much wiser move on his part than trying to push it now.

[x togepi x]

i don't buy that argument because i'm confused as to how it would take "so much time" to do something like give benefits to domestic partners. yes, the republicans would fight it, but it'd just paint them more and more out of touch. the things people complain about could be solved via simple executive orders according to many prominent gay rights lawyers.

[Machu505]

Schwarzenegger says (http://www.latimes.com/news/la-me-gay-marriage18-2009jun18,0,2506403.story?track=rss ) that Prop. 8 may violate the Constitution.

[Praetor]

Schwarzenegger says (http://www.latimes.com/news/la-me-gay-marriage18-2009jun18,0,2506403.story?track=rss ) that Prop. 8 may violate the Constitution.
He was against it from the start wasn't he?

[timb89]

we dont really have a huge gay marriage debate raging in australia as you do in america.
to clear up some confusion, do gay couples want the right to be recognised as a couple or just get the same civil liberties as man-women couples.

[Mercy Medical]

i can't be more mad than i was when i found out obama used to support "gay marriage" when he started politics but now kind of but not really supports "civil unions".
Wait, what? Oh, that's just awesome. Glad to see he was pandered to the moderate Republicans to win the vote. Hooray politics!

[Mercy Medical]

It blows my mind that people like the daughter of John fucking McCain are out-liberal-ing the President on this one.Well, I think once you know someone personally who is gay or lesbian, especially if it's a family member, it changes your mind a bit because then it's an issue that his close to home. But I won't say much about McCain "supporting" gay marriage. He's more or less just taking the moderate Republican stance on it that it should be left up to the states, which in my opinion is sort of a cop out.

I love how the only person in here defending Obama is gay haha.Wait, are you talking about me? If so, I'm in no way defending him. I'll be as critical about him as I am about any other politician...I'm merely attempting to be realistic in the fact that there is a lot going on in this country and therefore I can't expect certain things to happen overnight...

[Mercy Medical]

we dont really have a huge gay marriage debate raging in australia as you do in america.
to clear up some confusion, do gay couples want the right to be recognised as a couple or just get the same civil liberties as man-women couples.
They basically want equality when it comes to marriage (as well as numerous other things). They want the exact same marriage rights and benefits as heterosexual couples. I mean, gay couples can be recognized as couples with or without the government's help. They just want the opportunity to be marriage and have the government recognize it and receive the benefits that come with it.

[timb89]

They basically want equality when it comes to marriage (as well as numerous other things). They want the exact same marriage rights and benefits as heterosexual couples. I mean, gay couples can be recognized as couples with or without the government's help. They just want the opportunity to be marriage and have the government recognize it and receive the benefits that come with it.

from what it looks like, the yes on prop 8 people seem concerned over the word marriage.
what sort of benifits?
the only thing im still not 100% sure with (for the most part im 95% no with prop 8 i just want to get my facts straight rather than be ignorant) but does their ability to raise a child together come into it. ability isnt the right word but do the childs rights come into it. firstly wouldnt the child be teased beyond belief. i know he would of at the school i went to unfortunately.

[Mercy Medical]

from what it looks like, the yes on prop 8 people seem concerned over the word marriage.
what sort of benifits?
the only thing im still not 100% sure with (for the most part im 95% no with prop 8 i just want to get my facts straight rather than be ignorant) but does their ability to raise a child together come into it. ability isnt the right word but do the childs rights come into it. firstly wouldnt the child be teased beyond belief. i know he would of at the school i went to unfortunately.
This (http://www.religioustolerance.org/mar_bene.htm) website gives a listing of all the benefits marriage provides (that benefits that are provided by and recognized by the state). A lot of the anti-gay marriage people are concerned about the "word" and have suggested that same-sex couples get civil unions or domestic partnerships instead of marriage, but in my opinion that is just asinine and creates a separate, but equal situation which does not elevate the problem of discrimination.

In regards to raising a child, as far as I know gay couples can still do that. In regards to a child being teased, that's not really an issue of the same sex couple as much as it is an issue with people's ignorance and intolerance. Kids get teased at school all the time (that's not me condoning it), it's not really different for a kid with same sex parents...and that sort of thing shouldn't prevent a same sex couple from having/adopting a child.

[Praetor]

Well, I think once you know someone personally who is gay or lesbian, especially if it's a family member, it changes your mind a bit because then it's an issue that his close to home. But I won't say much about McCain "supporting" gay marriage. He's more or less just taking the moderate Republican stance on it that it should be left up to the states, which in my opinion is sort of a cop out.

Wait, are you talking about me? If so, I'm in no way defending him. I'll be as critical about him as I am about any other politician...I'm merely attempting to be realistic in the fact that there is a lot going on in this country and therefore I can't expect certain things to happen overnight...
I wasn't talking about John McCain, I was talking about his daughter, Megan who's a self-proclaimed "pro-sexer" who supports lifting the taboo off of the subject of sex, opposes abstinence-only education, and supports gay marriage at a federal level.

[Mercy Medical]

I wasn't talking about John McCain, I was talking about his daughter, Megan who's a self-proclaimed "pro-sexer" who supports lifting the taboo off of the subject of sex, opposes abstinence-only education, and supports gay marriage at a federal level.
Oh, whoops. My bad. I must have read that post real quick.

My hope is that Megan McCain sort of becomes the new face of Republicans, or at least Republicans to come. I feel like a lot of younger Republicans have those same types of views.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

this is positive yes?


2:57 PM
Justice Dept. will meet next week with gay rights groups on DOMA.
(http://thinkprogress.org/2009/06/19/doj-doma-meeting/)

from Think Progress (http://www.google.com/reader/view/feed/http%3A%2F%2Fthinkprogress.org%2Ffe ed%2F) by Ali Frick


This morning, Greg Sargent reported that the Justice Department had refused to meet with gay rights legal groups (http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/president-obama/gay-rights-lawyers-obama-administration-rebuffed-our-requests-for-dialog/) to discuss how to move forward on cases involving the Defense of Marriage Act. Now DOJ spokeswoman Tracy Russo confirms to Sargent that the Department has reached out to these groups and will meet with them next week (http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/justice-department/obama-administration-set-to-hold-powwow-with-big-gay-groups/):
The Obama Justice Department has reached out to major gay rights organizations and scheduled a private meeting for next week with the groups, in an apparent effort to smooth over tensions in the wake of the controversy over the administration’s defense in court of the Defense of Marriage Act. [...]
At the meeting — which hasn’t been announced and is expected to include leading gay rights groups like GLAD and Lambda Legal — both sides are expected to hash out how to proceed with pending DOMA cases.
The White House also admitted today that it was “seeking ways to include same-sex marriages (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124537164093129827.html), unions and partnerships in 2010 Census data.”

[Machu505]

Cool.

[Mercy Medical]

That's promising. It feels like something and makes me feel a little less angry about the current situation...

[saysmydoctor]

It's not as if the Obama administration has ignored other civil and human rights groups before--oh wait...

[bigeazy]

It's not as if the Obama administration has ignored other civil and human rights groups before--oh wait...

He's got the freakin economy to worry about. everything else can wait until that fire is put out.

[saysmydoctor]

Nah, civil rights are pretty much way more important than the economy. Also, he's the president, with a massive executive office. It's called multitasking.

[Machu505]

So I was watching C-SPAN, and they were broadcasting the Senate Judiciary Committee's meeting with Eric Holder. Sen. Klobuchar mentioned that there were holdover attorney's from the Bush Administration still in the Justice Department. Perhaps this is a plausible explanation for the court defense of DOMA?

[Praetor]

So I was watching C-SPAN, and they were broadcasting the Senate Judiciary Committee's meeting with Eric Holder. Sen. Klobuchar mentioned that there were holdover attorney's from the Bush Administration still in the Justice Department. Perhaps this is a plausible explanation for the court defense of DOMA?
The brief in question was written by a Bush holdover if I'm not mistaken.

[Machu505]

The brief in question was written by a Bush holdover if I'm not mistaken.
Oh well. I tried.

[Praetor]

haha it was a good inference! :-p

[saysmydoctor]

Things would still have to be approved, I'd imagine.

I'll make no notions that I completely understand the operations of the DoJ.

[bigeazy]

Nah, civil rights are pretty much way more important than the economy. Also, he's the president, with a massive executive office. It's called multitasking.

I agree civil rights are hugely important but he's in a really tight spot right now and if he seems like he's wavering too much, the Republicans will jump at the chance to discredit him. Yeah their party is in shambles right now but they still have the power to sabotage Obama's presidency. Honestly I'm starting to think they threw the election on purpose

[Mercy Medical]

I agree civil rights are hugely important but he's in a really tight spot right now and if he seems like he's wavering too much, the Republicans will jump at the chance to discredit him. Yeah their party is in shambles right now but they still have the power to sabotage Obama's presidency. Honestly I'm starting to think they threw the election on purpose
I've been thinking about things along those lines and I suppose it sort of makes sense why he is so slow to do anything about LGBT equality. I mean, in the end it's all politics. Things aren't black and white and there's a ton that goes on behind the scenes. I'm sure he would like to have some Republicans on his side for certain things and that he doesn't want to stir the pot too much too fast.

In the end, they are all politicians so I never try and get my expectations too high for any of them.

[lazzarat]

I've been thinking about things along those lines and I suppose it sort of makes sense why he is so slow to do anything about LGBT equality. I mean, in the end it's all politics. Things aren't black and white and there's a ton that goes on behind the scenes. I'm sure he would like to have some Republicans on his side for certain things and that he doesn't want to stir the pot too much too fast.

In the end, they are all politicians so I never try and get my expectations too high for any of them.

You're right, a lot of this is political, but I think there's a lot going on behind the scenes (and sometimes in front of our faces) to prepare for some of the major LGBT initiatives. For instance, on DADT, Obama has been making strategic appointments like Republican Rep. McHugh for Army Secretary that will provide "cover" for Obama when he makes the official push to change the policy. This is the same kind of thinking Obama had when he kept Gates as his Defense secretary (Gates, a Republican, provided "cover" for Obama in his decisions to withdraw from Iraq and send more troops to Afghanistan, etc). I believe Gates is also against DADT.

Other than that, we're gonna see the Matthew Shephard Hate Crimes Bill (finally!) signed into law in a matter of weeks, and Barney Frank is reintroducing the Employment Non-Discrimination Act this week, so that could mean at least two major LGBT bills this year.

The only things that trouble me are Obama's own stance on same-sex marriage and the slow movement on any reform to DOMA. I don't think anyone really believes Obama is against same-sex marriage; heck, he fully supported it in his run for Illinois State Senate in 1996 -- 1996! It's a purely political stance; just think about it, if 75 percent of Americans supported same-sex marriage, do you really think Obama would still have this stand against same-sex marriage? I am hoping that as support for same-sex marriage continues to rise, we'll see Obama reverse his position, as President Clinton recently indicated that he himself may do and as Senators like Schumer, Dodd, etc., have done over the past few weeks. On this and DOMA, I think Obama just needs a big push; as President Roosevelt once said, "make me do it," or as Obama himself repeatedly said, change comes from below. We need to keep the pressure on.

[lazzarat]

BTW, if you're in New York, call your state senator NOW. The marriage equality bill could be up for vote as soon as tomorrow or Wednesday.

http://www.hrcbackstory.org/2009/06/seriously-time-to-call-your-ny-state-senator/

[Justin_stacy]

L9v2uk99o2E

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

Police raid a gay bar in Texas on the 40th anniversary of the Stonewall uprising.




(http://thinkprogress.org/2009/06/29/stonewall-texas/)

[Mercy Medical]

Police raid a gay bar in Texas on the 40th anniversary of the Stonewall uprising.




(http://thinkprogress.org/2009/06/29/stonewall-texas/)
I read about that and found it to be quite horrifying. I cannot believe that in this day and age that kind of shit is still going on. I suppose it makes sense in Texas, considering it was one of the last states to remove the law from their books making homosexuality illegal.

[KrebstarKansas]

Slamming a dude on the ground so hard it causes bleeding of the brain for public intoxication? I wonder how the fuck the cops will try to justify that. If anything super crazy and out of hand was going on, I'm sure it would have come out by now.

[Mercy Medical]

Slamming a dude on the ground so hard it causes bleeding of the brain for public intoxication? I wonder how the fuck the cops will try to justify that. If anything super crazy and out of hand was going on, I'm sure it would have come out by now.
All the eye witness accounts state that the men that were arrested were not doing anything and were cooperating with police. They said that no one was even drunk at the bar, let alone a little bit silly. The officers even went into the men's bathroom and arrested two other men.

[thefaceless]

All the eye witness accounts state that the men that were arrested were not doing anything and were cooperating with police. They said that no one was even drunk at the bar, let alone a little bit silly. The officers even went into the men's bathroom and arrested two other men.

i get scared when i read stuff like this. My dad told me he was gay when i was 15, and the only thing i've ever done is worry about the wrong people finding out.

[Mercy Medical]

i get scared when i read stuff like this. My dad told me he was gay when i was 15, and the only thing i've ever done is worry about the wrong people finding out.
Well, it's just unnecessary. It's one thing to not agree with homosexuality and it's something completely different to be violent towards individuals who are gay or target them. I mean, it was a gay bar and I bet there were lesbians there as well, but you didn't hear about any of them getting arrested.

I'm so tired of this stereotypical viewpoint from some heterosexual men that lesbians = awesome and hot! and gay men = disgusting. I don't understand it, I don't get why people feel the need to go out of their way to discriminate towards them. All this does is infuriate the LGBT community even more then they already are. This isn't fucking 1969. it's the year 2009. This shit should NOT be happening anymore.

[thefaceless]

Well, it's just unnecessary. It's one thing to not agree with homosexuality and it's something completely different to be violent towards individuals who are gay or target them. I mean, it was a gay bar and I bet there were lesbians there as well, but you didn't hear about any of them getting arrested.

I'm so tired of this stereotypical viewpoint from some heterosexual men that lesbians = awesome and hot! and gay men = disgusting. I don't understand it, I don't get why people feel the need to go out of their way to discriminate towards them. All this does is infuriate the LGBT community even more then they already are. This isn't fucking 1969. it's the year 2009. This shit should NOT be happening anymore.

i couldn't agree more.

[Machu505]

India has decriminalized (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/02/india-decriminalizes-gay_n_224656.html) gay sex.

Woot.

[Praetor]

It's amazing that it used to be illegal in this country to be gay. It's good that other countries are taking these steps that should have been taking a long time ago but it just reminds me how far the LGBT has to go before they're accepted as equal all around the world.

[macabre]

A Christian group named the American Family Association just aired this video in Central Florida. It's quite possibly the worst documentary I've ever watched, the main premise is that gays have conspired to take over America.

Ootrp7KSZDg&feature=player_embedded

[Praetor]

Yeah. Christians are the oppressed ones.

[Praetor]

I'm on the verge of fucking tears watching that piece of fucking bigoted, closed-minded hate. Goddamn every single person who thinks along those lines.

Fuck religion and anything ever done in its name.

[Regards]

Seems like the documentry focused alot of the violation of the freedom of free speech...

[TEAMRAMROD]

I didn't catch where the video claimed the homosexual community was conspiring to take over the nation.

[Regards]

I didn't catch where the video claimed the homosexual community was conspiring to take over the nation.
Nor did I :shrug:

[x togepi x]

I didn't catch where the video claimed the homosexual community was conspiring to take over the nation.

at the very beginning, the whole "gays are only accepted because of propaganda" bullshit.

I'm sorry, those "violations of freedom of speech" probably aren't violations at all, documentary is too one sided.

[Manicapathy]

I've never understood why gay marriage is illegal. As far as the U.S government is concerned, they should go ahead and give them the green light. The churches on the other hand....good luck.

[thefaceless]

I've never understood why gay marriage is illegal. As far as the U.S government is concerned, they should go ahead and give them the green light. The churches on the other hand....good luck.

i think the u.s. government should change the term "marriage" to "civil union". marriage is a religious term in nature. therefore christianity/every other not-so-gay-supporting religion can have their false sense of moral superiority and my dad and stepdad can get a break on their taxes.

[Machu505]

Representative Patrick Murphy (D-PA) is sponsoring (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/08/rep-patrick-murphy-iraq-v_n_228000.html) a bill to repeal DADT.

Massachusetts is suing (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/08/massachusetts-sues-feds-o_n_227921.html) the government over DOMA.

[sjb2k1]

ooooh, this thread is relevant to my interests.

lately my wife and i have been playing the "you're legally married in CA (you lucky sons of bitches) and a handful of other states but you live in NC and have no rights here but congrats! you just bought a house, so now wade through all those legal waters regarding ownership and inheritance of the property, and oh if you want the other to be taken care of in the event of catastrophe go see a lawyer and spend a couple grand to get all the papers drawn up that heterosexual couples would have automatically when they get married thumbs up"

or something like that. but owning our own house is pretty sweet.

[GeeBee]

ooooh, this thread is relevant to my interests.

lately my wife and i have been playing the "you're legally married in CA (you lucky sons of bitches) and a handful of other states but you live in NC and have no rights here but congrats! you just bought a house, so now wade through all those legal waters regarding ownership and inheritance of the property, and oh if you want the other to be taken care of in the event of catastrophe go see a lawyer and spend a couple grand to get all the papers drawn up that heterosexual couples would have automatically when they get married thumbs up"

or something like that. but owning our own house is pretty sweet.

Wait...you and your WIFE? You're a GIRL. Am I missing something?

But in all seriousness...homeownership is the shizzle.

[sjb2k1]

Wait...you and your WIFE? You're a GIRL. Am I missing something?

But in all seriousness...homeownership is the shizzle.
not a typo. haha

yeah man, so far so good. but let me tell you, the people who we bought the house from apparently did not have cable or a land line. so now my nice new yard has been torn up not once but twice in order to bury brand new cable and telephone lines. i'm amazed as to how in this day and age people could get along without that stuff hahaha

[Mercy Medical]

Kiss in held to protest LDS church detaining a couple that kissed on their property. (http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid97881.asp)

Honestly, this baffles my mind.

During the incident, first reported by the Salt Lake Tribune, Matt Aune and Derek Jones say that LDS church security detained them on Thursday and Salt Lake City police cited them for trespassing after they kissed on the check on Main Street Plaza. The property was sold to the Church by the city in the late 90s, although many couples continue to pose affectionately for photos on the space.

It sounds like it wasn't even where the church was, just some property in SLC that the church owns.

[saysmydoctor]

So I'm got an apartment and it's only a few blocks away from the Empire State Pride Agenda Albany office, so I'm going to volunteer. They do events all around the city.

[saysmydoctor]

http://www.americablog.com/2009/07/naacp-refuses-to-take-position-on-gay.html
NAACP refuses take a position on gay rights.

[Praetor]

So I'm got an apartment and it's only a few blocks away from the Empire State Pride Agenda Albany office, so I'm going to volunteer. They do events all around the city.
I really wish I lived closer to a city so I could volunteer but alas...

[Mercy Medical]

http://www.americablog.com/2009/07/naacp-refuses-to-take-position-on-gay.html
NAACP refuses take a position on gay rights.
I'm getting really fucking sick and tired of the black community's bullshit on this issue.

I'm sorry, but there is absolutely ZERO difference between the African American civil rights movement and the LGBT civil rights movement. Most of those people need to take a fucking lesson in history and realize a gay man helped organize the best march on DC in civil rights history...

And quite frankly...maybe what I'm about to say is going to make me sound racist...but if the black community is going to take the opposition side of the LGBT rights movement based on Biblical beliefs, they need to stop being so fucking hypocritical by their actions. I'm sorry, but so many black people out there in the mainstream, in the eye of the public that proclaim some kind of faith in God display next to ZERO qualities of a Christian.

And the mere fact that Coretta Scott King says they are the same battle means that everyone else needs to sit down and STFU.

[saysmydoctor]

I just wonder how blacks would feel if the tables were turned.

[Mercy Medical]

The whole thing just pisses me off so much because that group of people more than ANYONE should understand the struggle for civil rights and should be sympathetic towards it, but due to their strong ties to Christianity, they probably oppose it more violently than anyone else (although it's not as much in the public eye as the white Christian community).

One thing I've realized as I've grown older is that if I want equal rights for the LGBT community and if I want the right to marry my girlfriend, it would be hypocritical of me to proclaim that things like polygamy or incest (between consenting adults, mind you) should still be illegal. I may not understand it, I may think it's "gross", but regardless they deserve that right just as I deserve the right. I used to be very closed minded on those issues early on, but my mind has definitely been opened up to those ideas over time. I just feel like it would be so hypocritical of me to not support consenting adults rights to live their lives as they see fit.

[AloneInTheDark]

Police raid a gay bar in Texas on the 40th anniversary of the Stonewall uprising.




(http://thinkprogress.org/2009/06/29/stonewall-texas/)

This is terrible.

[Mercy Medical]

The Matthew Shepard Act is expected to be introduced into the Senate this week (http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid98010.asp)

Apparently a lot of right-wing groups are getting all pissy about this, even going so far as to refer to it as the "Pedophile Protections Act." Regardless of how many times I hear these same arguments, I'm still absolutely astonished at people's sheer ignorance...

[saysmydoctor]

One of my favorite blogs, AMERICAblog, has made a very 'genre' specific subblog, AMERICAblog Gay. http://gay.americablog.com/

These guys are great.

[Mercy Medical]

One of my favorite blogs, AMERICAblog, has made a very 'genre' specific subblog, AMERICAblog Gay. http://gay.americablog.com/

These guys are great.
I'm reading the article they have on DADT and honestly, I'm quite sickened by it.

I think after these next 4 years, if the LGBT community keeps getting lied to and strung about, I'm done voting Republican or Democrat. I'm either not voting at all or giving my vote to a third party candidate. I'm tired of being lied to and fucked around over and over again...

[AloneInTheDark]

One of my favorite blogs, AMERICAblog, has made a very 'genre' specific subblog, AMERICAblog Gay. http://gay.americablog.com/

These guys are great.

Thank you, I look forward to reading this at work in the mornings, something more productive than Apple News.

[saysmydoctor]

Thank you, I look forward to reading this at work in the mornings, something more productive than Apple News.
I don't know how interested you are in politics, but check my signature out, I've linked my RSS feed in there.

[AloneInTheDark]

I don't know how interested you are in politics, but check my signature out, I've linked my RSS feed in there.

I don't know how to use that kind of RSS feed haha, even though I work with these things on a daily basis. I plugged it into feedburner, but the URL seems like some squabish..whats the direct link to your blog?

[saysmydoctor]

I don't know how to use that kind of RSS feed haha, even though I work with these things on a daily basis. I plugged it into feedburner, but the URL seems like some squabish..whats the direct link to your blog?
Are you using Safari? If you just click it, it should just show you the whole thing.

[AloneInTheDark]

Are you using Safari? If you just click it, it should just show you the whole thing.

I will be in 3 hours ha, I'm on a PC here right now, I'll check it out when I get home.

[Machu505]

Bill Clinton supports (http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/14/bill-clinton-gay-marriage/) same-sex marriage.

[Mercy Medical]

Bill Clinton supports (http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/14/bill-clinton-gay-marriage/) same-sex marriage.
It's so much easier to say that when you're not actually in office...and too bad he signed DOMA into law....

[saysmydoctor]

Typical centrist.

[GeeBee]

Two Gay Men Arrested After Kissing on Mormon Temple Square:
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=7116586
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=7149731
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=7132855

[saysmydoctor]

Throw the book at them.

Really, like throw a book at them, because they did nothing illegal. Lawsuit incoming.

[GeeBee]

Throw the book at them.

Really, like throw a book at them, because they did nothing illegal. Lawsuit incoming.

Exactly. Now people are pontificating that the security guards for the church will probably be fired, as they will have ended up causing the church millions in legal fees and settlements. You should see these guys, too. They look like spies, what with their earpieces and fancy suits.

[Mercy Medical]

Exactly. Now people are pontificating that the security guards for the church will probably be fired, as they will have ended up causing the church millions in legal fees and settlements. You should see these guys, too. They look like spies, what with their earpieces and fancy suits.
Hahaha, that reminds me of Religulous when Bill Maher was filming in front of the temple and the guards came by and escorted them off the premises.

[GeeBee]

Hahaha, that reminds me of Religulous when Bill Maher was filming in front of the temple and the guards came by and escorted them off the premises.

:-d Precisely. If I had some funding and knew how to work a camera...I'd LOVE to do an expose documentary on how much of a business that "church" really is. Former government agents as security detail, HUGE investment companies...the list goes on.

[Mercy Medical]

:-d Precisely. If I had some funding and knew how to work a camera...I'd LOVE to do an expose documentary on how much of a business that "church" really is. Former government agents as security detail, HUGE investment companies...the list goes on.
No personal offense to anyone who is browsing this thread who happens to be Mormon...BUT...I wasn't aware what Mormons believed fully until I saw Religulous, but holy damn they're right up there close to Scientology in regards to crazy crap.

[My Broken Fever]

No personal offense to anyone who is browsing this thread who happens to be Mormon...BUT...I wasn't aware what Mormons believed fully until I saw Religulous, but holy damn they're right up there close to Scientology in regards to crazy crap. The south park episode about Mormons still says it best.

[GeeBee]

No personal offense to anyone who is browsing this thread who happens to be Mormon...BUT...I wasn't aware what Mormons believed fully until I saw Religulous, but holy damn they're right up there close to Scientology in regards to crazy crap.

The south park episode about Mormons still says it best.

http://www.mormoncurtain.com/

[thefaceless]

http://www.mormoncurtain.com/


LOL on the left link bar there is a page entitled "abuse is the victims fault"

[GeeBee]

LOL on the left link bar there is a page entitled "abuse is the victims fault"

Actually more sad than anything. We're talking about people that mormons consider "prophets" telling victims of sexual abuse that they share in some of the blame.

[Mercy Medical]

Not sure if anyone saw a recent CNN commentary written by a black man basically saying that LGBT civil rights is not equal to black civil rights, etc....I thought someone posted it here, but I couldn't find it. Anyway, I found this to be a nice rebuttal to the article.

http://gay.americablog.com/2009/07/my-pain-is-greater-than-your-pain-i-win.html

I've never understand the "my civil rights are more important than yours" or the "you haven't struggled like we have struggled" arguments people make. Discrimination is discrimination and it SHOULD NOT be happening, regardless of who it's intended towards or how harsh it is.

[Praetor]

Or, if you want to be direct about it, did Mamie Till and Judy Shepard cry different tears when they learned about the death of their children?

Very well said.

[loveisdead]

Very well said.
Ha. Check what I posted in the General thread.

[Praetor]

Yeah I saw it. I'll post the video here.

L2epf5G3v3o

Discuss.

[loveisdead]

I can't watch the video but from what you said, it makes Obama look hypocritical. All this talk of progress (it was one of his slogans, along with change) hasn't been seen at all in arguably the most controversial social issue of this time. Really needs to step up and take some initiative.

[Praetor]

"The first thing we need to do is to make real the words of the NAAC Charter, and eradicate prejudice, bigotry, and discrimination among citizens of the United States. I understand there may be a temptation among some to think that discrimination is no longer a problem in 2009, and I believe that overall, there probably has never been less discrimination in American than there is today. I think we can say that. But make no mistake: the pain of discrimination is still felt in America. By...by African-American women paid less for doing the same work because colleagues of a different color of a different gender..." (he doesn't finish this sentence). "By Latinos made to feel unwelcome in their own country. By Muslim-Americans viewed with suspicion simply because they kneel down to pray to their god. By our gay brothers and sisters still taunted, still attacked, still denied their rights. On the 45th anniversary of the Civil Rights Act, discrimination can not stand. Not on account of your color or your gender, not who you worship or who you love. Prejudice has no place in the United States of America. That's what the NAACP stands for, that's what it will continue to fight for, as long as it takes."

[Mercy Medical]

The thing that makes me laugh about that video is the fact that he makes the "blah, blah, blah everyone deserves equal rights statement yadda yadda yadda" yet he does not approve of same-sex marriage and only approves of civil unions. :rolleyes:

[loveisdead]

Talk talk talk talk talk no action. Don't ask Don't Tell? I mean fuck you could at least take some baby steps.

[Praetor]

The thing that makes me laugh about that video is the fact that he makes the "blah, blah, blah everyone deserves equal rights statement yadda yadda yadda" yet he does not approve of same-sex marriage and only approves of civil unions. :rolleyes:
Talk talk talk talk talk no action. Don't ask Don't Tell? I mean fuck you could at least take some baby steps.
The absolute least he could do is suspend firings until the bill to repeal DADT in Congress either passes or fails. Then if it passes, gay members of the armed forces don't have to be fired. And if it fails, then they will be. Of course ideally I would want DADT eliminated, DOMA repealed, etc etc but I feel that that is a very centrist, moderate compromise.

[Mercy Medical]

You fucking motherfucker. You talk about denying gays their rights but take the same safe "let the states decide" approach? Get the fuck out. At least we knew where George Bush stood.Haha, sorry I pulled your post over from the other thread to keep the discussion here....

His stance on LGBT issues is so wishy washy. This is the issue I have with Dems and LGBT rights stuff...you never know where they stand. On the campaign trail they proclaim that they're some big advocate for LGBT rights because they can...because they're nothing more then promises. Then they get into office and all that excitement and fire behind those issues just dies. Granted, they may get into office and discover doing certain things are a lot more difficult then they expected and I'm sure there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes that we don't know about, but still. That's the thing that gets me with Dems, they make promises and never follow through. At least with Republicans we know how they stand.

[Praetor]

Haha, sorry I pulled your post over from the other thread to keep the discussion here....

His stance on LGBT issues is so wishy washy. This is the issue I have with Dems and LGBT rights stuff...you never know where they stand. On the campaign trail they proclaim that they're some big advocate for LGBT rights because they can...because they're nothing more then promises. Then they get into office and all that excitement and fire behind those issues just dies. Granted, they may get into office and discover doing certain things are a lot more difficult then they expected and I'm sure there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes that we don't know about, but still. That's the thing that gets me with Dems, they make promises and never follow through. At least with Republicans we know how they stand.
Seriously. Has he ever actually done anything for average gay citizens? You know, the ones that don't work for him?

[Mercy Medical]

The absolute least he could do is suspend firings until the bill to repeal DADT in Congress either passes or fails. Then if it passes, gay members of the armed forces don't have to be fired. And if it fails, then they will be. Of course ideally I would want DADT eliminated, DOMA repealed, etc etc but I feel that that is a very centrist, moderate compromise.
He keeps making statements that it's not his duty to do this and that he has to stand behind the Constitution and what not...yet he called those things unconstitutional on the campaign trail? It just doesn't make sense to me. It's such fucking double speak and all it does is piss me off.

I'm going to be stoked of the Matthew Shepard Act goes through, which I think it will. Obama has said he will veto any wasteful spending and with the F-22 on that DoD bill it's a good chance that will happen...but I don't think the Matthew Shepard Act is going anywhere anytime soon. I think once that goes through it's going to be a good step in the right direction. That's one of the things that the LGBT community has been wanting for a while and it will be nice to feel on the same level as everyone else in regards to hate crimes.

The thing I don't understand with DADT, is that it seems the majority (even those who have served in the military, are high up military officials, etc) are saying that it needs to be repealed. There seems to be such an overwhelming majority that wants it done away with that I don't understand why there hasn't been more action on that front. If anything, that shit should go through before we start getting hot and heavy in Afghanistan.

[loveisdead]

The absolute least he could do is suspend firings until the bill to repeal DADT in Congress either passes or fails. Then if it passes, gay members of the armed forces don't have to be fired. And if it fails, then they will be. Of course ideally I would want DADT eliminated, DOMA repealed, etc etc but I feel that that is a very centrist, moderate compromise.
That seems reasonable enough. My problem with that is sure it kind of pleases everyone, but the country voted from him overwhelmingly on the basis of change. Use that as a mandate to actually really change some stuff and repeal DADT and get DOMA the hell out of here.

[Mercy Medical]

Seriously. Has he ever actually done anything for average gay citizens? You know, the ones that don't work for him?
I'm not sure what his history as a senator in regards to LGBT issues is. There was such an overwhelming support behind him for the campaign from the LGBT community. He has A LOT of them to thank for getting in fucking office in the first place. The same shit happens over and over again with Dems. Clinton did the same thing when he made false promises to the LGBT community and then signed DOMA into law....at least Obama hasn't done something like that.

[Praetor]

He keeps making statements that it's not his duty to do this and that he has to stand behind the Constitution and what not...yet he called those things unconstitutional on the campaign trail? It just doesn't make sense to me. It's such fucking double speak and all it does is piss me off.
Sums up Obama's stance on gay rights perfectly.

I'm going to be stoked of the Matthew Shepard Act goes through, which I think it will. Obama has said he will veto any wasteful spending and with the F-22 on that DoD bill it's a good chance that will happen...
Quick sidenote: lol @ the F-22 and anybody who ever voted to funnel money into that.

but I don't think the Matthew Shepard Act is going anywhere anytime soon. I think once that goes through it's going to be a good step in the right direction. That's one of the things that the LGBT community has been wanting for a while and it will be nice to feel on the same level as everyone else in regards to hate crimes.
No, didn't you hear? You choose to be gay but you don't choose to be black. That's why it shouldn't be a hate crime.

The thing I don't understand with DADT, is that it seems the majority (even those who have served in the military, are high up military officials, etc) are saying that it needs to be repealed. There seems to be such an overwhelming majority that wants it done away with that I don't understand why there hasn't been more action on that front. If anything, that shit should go through before we start getting hot and heavy in Afghanistan.
It's because our "representatives" in Congress don't actually represent the will of the people. I mean, take health care reform. 72% support a public option, fifty-something would even be willing to pay higher taxes for one. And Democrats are what's stalling it?

[Praetor]

I'm not sure what his history as a senator in regards to LGBT issues is. There was such an overwhelming support behind him for the campaign from the LGBT community. He has A LOT of them to thank for getting in fucking office in the first place. The same shit happens over and over again with Dems. Clinton did the same thing when he made false promises to the LGBT community and then signed DOMA into law....at least Obama hasn't done something like that.
That seems reasonable enough. My problem with that is sure it kind of pleases everyone, but the country voted from him overwhelmingly on the basis of change. Use that as a mandate to actually really change some stuff and repeal DADT and get DOMA the hell out of here.
Clinton signed DOMA and DADT into law, didn't he? I can't see him doing anything like that but I do predict that he'll stay with the same ol' lukewarm bullshit. I wonder how he'll explain himself to the LGBT community when he inevitably runs for re-election in 2012.

[Mercy Medical]

My stance on hate crimes is all or nothing. Either all minorities/etc should have those rights or no one should. We shouldn't be picking and choosing who we want to cover in hate crime laws.

[Praetor]

My stance on hate crimes is all or nothing. Either all minorities/etc should have those rights or no one should. We shouldn't be picking and choosing who we want to cover in hate crime laws.
Pretty easy for rich white straight men to pick who deserves protection and who doesn't.

[Mercy Medical]

Clinton signed DOMA and DADT into law, didn't he? I can't see him doing anything like that but I do predict that he'll stay with the same ol' lukewarm bullshit. I wonder how he'll explain himself to the LGBT community when he inevitably runs for re-election in 2012.
Yea, I think he did DADT as well, but I wasn't sure so I left that out. Clinton did a fucking number on the LGBT community and I love that NOW he comes out and states that he supports these things. Congrats dude, too little too fucking late.

The issue I'm currently having with Obama is that he is so lukewarm. I consider myself a moderate and I totally understand wanting to find common ground on certain issues, but he seems to want to do that with everything. I feel like he's making Congress do a lot of the leg work on certain issues and he's not taking the initiative himself. I mean, yea, there's certain things that he signed straight up and took over, but still, I feel like he personally hasn't done all that much other then push issues through Congress and then eventually sign them when they get to his desk.

I mean, I'm trying to be patient as I understand there's a lot of shit happening in this country right now that should take precedence, but at the same time I feel like shit like that DOMA brief should not be happening. I'm sorry, but someone should have gotten fucking fired for that brief.

[loveisdead]

Gay marriage and gay rights are something that is going to be looked at 50 years or so from now the same way we look at slavery today. It's disgusting to know that's going to happen yet we still act incredibly hastily.

[Mercy Medical]

Pretty easy for rich white straight men to pick who deserves protection and who doesn't.
I, for one, have never understood hate crimes laws or why we have them. I understand that they're trying to protect minorities and what not, but it's never fully made sense to me why it's necessary...but like I said either everyone should have it or no one should.

[Mercy Medical]

Gay marriage and gay rights are something that is going to be looked at 50 years or so from now the same way we look at slavery today. It's disgusting to know that's going to happen yet we still act incredibly hastily.
And that's the thing...I know that these issues will get passed and we will have resolution eventually. It's just going to take time...but I want it to happen in MY lifetime, so I can take advantages of life's little pleasures like being able to legally marry my girlfriend and have a picture of her and I at my desk at work without the fear of being fired because of it.

[Praetor]

Yea, I think he did DADT as well, but I wasn't sure so I left that out. Clinton did a fucking number on the LGBT community and I love that NOW he comes out and states that he supports these things. Congrats dude, too little too fucking late.

The issue I'm currently having with Obama is that he is so lukewarm. I consider myself a moderate and I totally understand wanting to find common ground on certain issues, but he seems to want to do that with everything. I feel like he's making Congress do a lot of the leg work on certain issues and he's not taking the initiative himself. I mean, yea, there's certain things that he signed straight up and took over, but still, I feel like he personally hasn't done all that much other then push issues through Congress and then eventually sign them when they get to his desk.

I mean, I'm trying to be patient as I understand there's a lot of shit happening in this country right now that should take precedence, but at the same time I feel like shit like that DOMA brief should not be happening. I'm sorry, but someone should have gotten fucking fired for that brief.
Honestly, I don't think anything in this country should take precedence over basic human rights. More important than the economy for sure, up there with health care reform in my eyes. I mean, how long would drafting a bill take that says "Two citizens should not be denied the right to marry based on their sexual orientation" and "Churches and religious organizations should not be penalized for turning away these couples"? I highly doubt that Obama can't squeeze in five minutes to write that shit. Maybe he could run one less lap on his treadmill during his morning workout if he has to. I know he's a busy man, but what the fuck.

[loveisdead]

Kind of don't agree with your last post, Kara (I think that's what I remember your name being). I think it's a little nuts to say he hasn't been doing anything and just giving stuff to congress. The executive orders he signed in the beginning showed everyone he was getting right to work, and the stuff going through congress is because that's how it is supposed to be done as it's written in the consitution. I've always defended Obama on the grounds that you may not like him or agree with what he's doing, but the man has been working his ass off since day one.

[Mercy Medical]

Honestly, I don't think anything in this country should take precedence over basic human rights. More important than the economy for sure, up there with health care reform in my eyes. I mean, how long would drafting a bill take that says "Two citizens should not be denied the right to marry based on their sexual orientation" and "Churches and religious organizations should not be penalized for turning away these couples"? I highly doubt that Obama can't squeeze in five minutes to write that shit. Maybe he could run one less lap on his treadmill during his morning workout if he has to. I know he's a busy man, but what the fuck.
See, I suppose I'm of the mind that things like the economy and healthcare reform effects the entire country, so I feel as though those take precedence over LGBT rights. I mean, people aren't getting killed on the street for being an LGBT individual...things are a lot better then they were 50 years ago. Don't get me wrong, I still want and feel as though we deserve those things, but I just think issues that effect the nation as a whole should take precedence.

I don't think any of those things are difficult, but the backlash from the right wing and religious community will be HUGE. I don't doubt deals are happening behind closed doors that are also influencing these things. Help me out with this now and I'll help you out with this later. Politics are such a fucking sketchy business.

[Praetor]

Gay marriage and gay rights are something that is going to be looked at 50 years or so from now the same way we look at slavery today. It's disgusting to know that's going to happen yet we still act incredibly hastily.
This is fact. Soon, gays will have the right to marry, DADT will not exist, and DOMA will be looked upon with the same hatred as the Dred Scott decision.
I, for one, have never understood hate crimes laws or why we have them. I understand that they're trying to protect minorities and what not, but it's never fully made sense to me why it's necessary...but like I said either everyone should have it or no one should.
The way that I see it, it exists as a deterrent more than a punishment. That's how I've always understood it but I could be wrong.
And that's the thing...I know that these issues will get passed and we will have resolution eventually. It's just going to take time...but I want it to happen in MY lifetime, so I can take advantages of life's little pleasures like being able to legally marry my girlfriend and have a picture of her and I at my desk at work without the fear of being fired because of it.
Just comes back to the same question: why are we delaying the inevitable? This is way more of an issue than it should be. I'm heterosexual. Letting gays marry, serve in the military, be protected from hate crimes etc. doesn't effect me in the slightest. And it doesn't effect 99% of the people in DC. So why are they trying so vehemently to put this off on the next Congress? The next President? From a purely political standpoint, if I was president, I would try to get as much LGBT shit done as possible so the history books are kind to me haha

[Mercy Medical]

Kind of don't agree with your last post, Kara (I think that's what I remember your name being). I think it's a little nuts to say he hasn't been doing anything and just giving stuff to congress. The executive orders he signed in the beginning showed everyone he was getting right to work, and the stuff going through congress is because that's how it is supposed to be done as it's written in the consitution. I've always defended Obama on the grounds that you may not like him or agree with what he's doing, but the man has been working his ass off since day one.
Oh, I don't doubt or disagree that he is getting certain things done...but it seems as though with a lot of the LGBT issues he is not going to take charge and do any sort of executive order, he's going to let Congress deal with it. I think my issue comes with the fact that he seemed so strong in his stance on certain issues when he was campaigning, but that strength has dwindled significantly since taking office.

I don't think he's just sitting on his ass not doing anything. He's definitely working and working hard, but it seems like with a lot of the LGBT issues he wants Congress to deal with it. I mean, maybe he found stuff out when he finally got the job that made him to change his stance or pace on certain issues, who knows.

[Praetor]

See, I suppose I'm of the mind that things like the economy and healthcare reform effects the entire country, so I feel as though those take precedence over LGBT rights.
Disagree, the state of the economy is temporary. It will bounce back in a few years. While LGBT rights is inevitable, it will take much longer than that. While it's a huge deal, Americans will get their money back once the stock market/job market/housing market gets better. Gay couples will never get the years back that they couldn't marry, that they couldn't serve in the military.

I mean, people aren't getting killed on the street for being an LGBT individual...things are a lot better then they were 50 years ago.
Odd that you say that because where I live, the killer of a transgendered woman goes to trial today. But I know what you mean, it's less common although it's still a way bigger problem than it should be.

I don't think any of those things are difficult, but the backlash from the right wing and religious community will be HUGE. I don't doubt deals are happening behind closed doors that are also influencing these things. Help me out with this now and I'll help you out with this later. Politics are such a fucking sketchy business.
It's so sad what goes on at the expense of American citizens.

[loveisdead]

Oh, I don't doubt or disagree that he is getting certain things done...but it seems as though with a lot of the LGBT issues he is not going to take charge and do any sort of executive order, he's going to let Congress deal with it. I think my issue comes with the fact that he seemed so strong in his stance on certain issues when he was campaigning, but that strength has dwindled significantly since taking office.

I don't think he's just sitting on his ass not doing anything. He's definitely working and working hard, but it seems like with a lot of the LGBT issues he wants Congress to deal with it. I mean, maybe he found stuff out when he finally got the job that made him to change his stance or pace on certain issues, who knows.
The problem with that issue is that he can't really do much besides encourage congress to pass legislation legalizing gay marriage. It's an issue for either congress or SCOTUS to really decide.

[Mercy Medical]

Odd that you say that because where I live, the killer of a transgendered woman goes to trial today. But I know what you mean, it's less common although it's still a way bigger problem than it should be.Yea, I realize that stuff still goes on, but I just meant more or less it's less common...however...I do think the hate towards the LGBT community is increasing lately as the religious right knows the inevitable is going to happen so they are stepping up their fear mongering game.

I feel bad for the transgendered community...I think that is the most difficult prejudice to overcome in regards to the LGBT community. That's such a complex issue that even I don't fully understand it.

The problem with that issue is that he can't really do much besides encourage congress to pass legislation legalizing gay marriage. It's an issue for either congress or SCOTUS to really decide.And I suppose that's where my ignorance on the whole political process comes in and I think the ignorance of many people in the same regard comes in. When he says something on the campaign trail people take that as a promise that it's something HE can do. If it's up to Congress, then it's up to a senator to put their name on something like that and sponsor it.

[loveisdead]

Yea, I realize that stuff still goes on, but I just meant more or less it's less common...however...I do think the hate towards the LGBT community is increasing lately as the religious right knows the inevitable is going to happen so they are stepping up their fear mongering game.

I feel bad for the transgendered community...I think that is the most difficult prejudice to overcome in regards to the LGBT community. That's such a complex issue that even I don't fully understand it.

And I suppose that's where my ignorance on the whole political process comes in and I think the ignorance of many people in the same regard comes in. When he says something on the campaign trail people take that as a promise that it's something HE can do. If it's up to Congress, then it's up to a senator to put their name on something like that and sponsor it.
Exactly. In terms of laws, the president kind of has their hands tied. Repealing or making an executive order is a different story, but something like gay marriage doesn't fall into that category. I think the best bet for gay marriage to become legal will be through the supreme court.

[Mercy Medical]

Exactly. In terms of laws, the president kind of has their hands tied. Repealing or making an executive order is a different story, but something like gay marriage doesn't fall into that category. I think the best bet for gay marriage to become legal will be through the supreme court.
I really hope that pending case for Prop 8 has an impact. I mean, if they rule Prop 8 unconstitutional in the supreme court, wouldn't that mean banning same-sex marriage in the nation as a whole would also be unconstitutional?

[loveisdead]

I really hope that pending case for Prop 8 has an impact. I mean, if they rule Prop 8 unconstitutional in the supreme court, wouldn't that mean banning same-sex marriage in the nation as a whole would also be unconstitutional?
Nope. Prop 8 is such a confusing piece of legislation. IF they rule prop 8 unconstituional in the SC it wouldn't really do anything for gay rights in any state but California. What it could do is say that you can't put up a proposition voted on by the people to overturn a state SC ruling and leave that strictly up to the state's congress.

[Mercy Medical]

Nope. Prop 8 is such a confusing piece of legislation. IF they rule prop 8 unconstituional in the SC it wouldn't really do anything for gay rights in any state but California. What it could do is say that you can't put up a proposition voted on by the people to overturn a state SC ruling and leave that strictly up to the state's congress.
Well that's stupid. The government is dumb. lol

I think this is why a lot of people get heated and angry after certain things occur, they don't know enough about the whole process and what it entails. I mean, even I will admit I'm ignorant of a lot of those things.

[loveisdead]

Well that's stupid. The government is dumb. lol

I think this is why a lot of people get heated and angry after certain things occur, they don't know enough about the whole process and what it entails. I mean, even I will admit I'm ignorant of a lot of those things.
Don't take what I'm saying as the absolute truth. I'm pretty sure I'm correct, but I'm sure someone like splitsecond or someone who's going to law school could give a more accurate description. I'm going off what I learned as a law minor and my general understanding.

[thefaceless]

Actually more sad than anything. We're talking about people that mormons consider "prophets" telling victims of sexual abuse that they share in some of the blame.
you're right. laughing is how i deal with things that i don't understand. its my coping mechanism.

[WarpSpeedChewy]

I can't watch the video but from what you said, it makes Obama look hypocritical. All this talk of progress (it was one of his slogans, along with change) hasn't been seen at all in arguably the most controversial social issue of this time. Really needs to step up and take some initiative.
I agree that he needs to take up the initiative. But I also think this is an issue people are way too impatient on. People who defend him by saying he's not gonna solve everything the first 6 months need to give him the same benefit of the doubt on this issue. I hate to sound like the resident defender of his and I agree he should be doing more on it, but give it the time. I do think his intent and promise on the issue is genuine.

I mean, I'm trying to be patient as I understand there's a lot of shit happening in this country right now that should take precedence, but at the same time I feel like shit like that DOMA brief should not be happening. I'm sorry, but someone should have gotten fucking fired for that brief.
One thing I thnk he deserves a little credit on is that he isn't ignoring the issue. When he had those gay right activists come to the white house, he approached people's impatience on it. I think there is a time and place for the issue and I think it's coming sooner than later. He'll have to act on it at some point. I agree completely with you on DOMA.

The problem with that issue is that he can't really do much besides encourage congress to pass legislation legalizing gay marriage. It's an issue for either congress or SCOTUS to really decide.
This is pretty much my understanding of it.

[loveisdead]

I agree that he needs to take up the initiative. But I also think this is an issue people are way too impatient on. People who defend him by saying he's not gonna solve everything the first 6 months need to give him the same benefit of the doubt on this issue. I hate to sound like the resident defender of his and I agree he should be doing more on it, but give it the time. I do think his intent and promise on the issue is genuine.

Did I miss something he promised? Everything I've ever heard him say is he thinks that marriage is between a man and a woman and that it's up to the states.

[WarpSpeedChewy]

Did I miss something he promised? Everything I've ever heard him say is he thinks that marriage is between a man and a woman and that it's up to the states.
No I just meant generally.

[loveisdead]

No I just meant generally.
You said the issue so I thought you meant this specific issue. I don't think he's really pledged to do anything great concerning it.

[loveisdead]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/16/granderson.obama.gays/index.html

[Mercy Medical]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/16/granderson.obama.gays/index.html
I read that commentary and rolled my eyes. On the last page, I posted a link to some rebuttals to that commentary.

[loveisdead]

His points suck. Didn't really convince me of anything.

[Mercy Medical]

His points suck. Didn't really convince me of anything.
I just don't get the comparison of discrimination idea. Discrimination is discrimination. It's all bad and none of it should ever happen to anyone. People who have faced discrimination should be much more sympathetic to others who still face it.

A point was made in the rebuttals that the black community really shouldn't say anything because while they were slaves for hundreds of years, Hitler was off trying to kill the entire race of Jews....

It's just a stupid and silly argument.

[loveisdead]

I just don't get the comparison of discrimination idea. Discrimination is discrimination. It's all bad and none of it should ever happen to anyone. People who have faced discrimination should be much more sympathetic to others who still face it.

A point was made in the rebuttals that the black community really shouldn't say anything because while they were slaves for hundreds of years, Hitler was off trying to kill the entire race of Jews....

It's just a stupid and silly argument.
And that point is retarded as well. Like you said, discrimination is discrimination and it doesn't matter who it is against.

[Mercy Medical]

And that point is retarded as well. Like you said, discrimination is discrimination and it doesn't matter who it is against.
The thing that got me about that dude's article is that he seemed to be bitching about how clubs and stuff are still segregated, even within the LGBT community. Part of me feels like that is a choice, however. I can't imagine many LGBT individuals being racist...I'm sure there are some, but I'm pretty sure the majority are not especially in an area like Boystown.

Segregation is always going to happen, whether it's forced or voluntary. It happens within the LGBT community. You get people who live in "normal" areas of towns and then you get the people who want to live in the LGBT specific neighborhoods. That just happens. Some people just prefer to be around like minded/similar individuals. So all his complaints in that regards just falls on deaf ears, honesty. He's making a big stink about absolutely nothing...about something that people are CHOOSING to do.

[loveisdead]

Here's where it gets tricky then. Why is it a problem for a straight person to say they want to live in a predominantly straight community but it be ok that a gay person says they wanna live in a gay community.

[Mercy Medical]

Here's where it gets tricky then. Why is it a problem for a straight person to say they want to live in a predominantly straight community but it be ok that a gay person says they wanna live in a gay community.
Because then you're obviously labeled a bigot! I dunno, that's a bit of a double standard...I think it mostly comes from the connotations of WHY most straight people would want to live in a straight community. I don't really understand why gay people want to live in an all gay community. I'd get sick of that really fucking quick. I just prefer to live in a diverse neighborhood with all kinds of people.

[GeeBee]

you're right. laughing is how i deal with things that i don't understand. its my coping mechanism.

Oh, the whole religion is laughable.

[GeeBee]

Because then you're obviously labeled a bigot! I dunno, that's a bit of a double standard...I think it mostly comes from the connotations of WHY most straight people would want to live in a straight community. I don't really understand why gay people want to live in an all gay community. I'd get sick of that really fucking quick. I just prefer to live in a diverse neighborhood with all kinds of people.

Which is why I don't get the gay community's hoping that churches (case in point: Mormon Church) will change their doctrines to be more accepting of gays. I mean, if they don't want YOU, why on earth would you want THEM? I'd tell them where to shove their doctrine and never look back if it was me. But whatevs...

[Mercy Medical]

Which is why I don't get the gay community's hoping that churches (case in point: Mormon Church) will change their doctrines to be more accepting of gays. I mean, if they don't want YOU, why on earth would you want THEM? I'd tell them where to shove their doctrine and never look back if it was me. But whatevs...
I think it's just nice to know you're generally accepted by everyone? I mean, there's really no advantage to get churches to change their doctrines on these types of things, other then to prevent the potential "hate speech" (put in quotes because some of it is, some of it isn't) from the churches. I suppose the church has a large influence on the general population because a lot of people get their ideas/opinions of certain things from the church, so as long as the church is saying these things then it justifies the hate and bigotry in some way? I suppose that's just my take on it. Frankly, I couldn't care less if the church approves or not. I also don't believe the way certain passages have been interpreted over time is the correct way to interpret them...so I suppose I think the churches are preaching the wrong thing.

Overall, the church is the LGBT communities biggest opponent, so I think people want to knock them down and debunk them in every way possible. On a personal level, I would like the Christian church to change their doctrine on such things because I happen to be a Christian...so it would be nice to know that my Christian community and my family would be more accepting.

[GeeBee]

I think it's just nice to know you're generally accepted by everyone? I mean, there's really no advantage to get churches to change their doctrines on these types of things, other then to prevent the potential "hate speech" (put in quotes because some of it is, some of it isn't) from the churches. I suppose the church has a large influence on the general population because a lot of people get their ideas/opinions of certain things from the church, so as long as the church is saying these things then it justifies the hate and bigotry in some way? I suppose that's just my take on it. Frankly, I couldn't care less if the church approves or not. I also don't believe the way certain passages have been interpreted over time is the correct way to interpret them...so I suppose I think the churches are preaching the wrong thing.

Overall, the church is the LGBT communities biggest opponent, so I think people want to knock them down and debunk them in every way possible. On a personal level, I would like the Christian church to change their doctrine on such things because I happen to be a Christian...so it would be nice to know that my Christian community and my family would be more accepting.

I agree completely. I think there's the "opposition" to churches, which I understand. But here, especially in regards to the mormon church, there's this need for "validation" from the church, which I find puzzling.

It's like the difference between a child who is abused and grows up to become an advocate against abuse,
and a child who is abused and grows up continually begging the abusive father for acceptance and love, where none is forthcoming.

And as much as churches like to wrap their hate in a message of "love", I can't understand falling for it.

[WarpSpeedChewy]

You said the issue so I thought you meant this specific issue. I don't think he's really pledged to do anything great concerning it.
I just meant the issue overall.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/16/granderson.obama.gays/index.html
zTFwAxfHgSA

Am I the only one who think it's stupid to actually compare civil rights movements ?

Because then you're obviously labeled a bigot! I dunno, that's a bit of a double standard...I think it mostly comes from the connotations of WHY most straight people would want to live in a straight community. I don't really understand why gay people want to live in an all gay community. I'd get sick of that really fucking quick. I just prefer to live in a diverse neighborhood with all kinds of people.
I agree with that. I just think it comes greatly from a fear of the unknown in terms of how you'll be treated, how life will be around you. I think it's understandable to a point but not really excusable.

[saysmydoctor]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/16/granderson.obama.gays/index.html
People like him don't deserve rights. I can't stand when a minority tries to say their struggle is harder than another minority's struggle. Fuck you, you both have equal, but different struggles. Same way I feel about the whole outing issue.

[Z-train]

I am fine with those penguins turning gay as long as they dont raise children or become schoolteacher.

[My Broken Fever]

I am fine with those penguins turning gay as long as they dont raise children or become schoolteacher. I do hope you're kidding. A homosexual person is equal in all ways to a straight person, what possible reason outside of ignorant bigotry is there to not allow them to be teachers or have children?

This is the same silly bullshit as is always turned to, being homosexual isn't a choice, it's who a person is. And who cares if a teacher or a parent likes women or men, that doesn't matter; what does matter is that they love their children or in the case of a teacher that he educates the children under his/her care.

[Z-train]

Gay people are fine but god hates fagpenguinsLOL:thisissparta:

[loveisdead]

uhhhhhh....

[Praetor]

God I love the Ignore function.

[My Broken Fever]

God I love the Ignore function. Where is it? Because by magog I need it before my bloodpressure doubles.

[Praetor]

Click the username, hit 'Ignore'.

[loveisdead]

Good call. Totally forgot about that. He is ignored.

[thefaceless]

Oh, the whole religion is laughable.

much agreed.

[saysmydoctor]

Gay people are fine but god hates fagpenguinsLOL:thisissparta:
...................................

[thefaceless]

Gay people are fine but god hates fagpenguinsLOL:thisissparta:

your god hates people?

[Mercy Medical]

Anti-gay marriage group also opposes straight civil marriage (http://gay.americablog.com/2009/07/whacko-pa-group-campaigns-against-same.html)

The group says gay marriage is harmful to society because children do not have a mother and father. They also claim that marriages performed at City Hall, without God present, are not really marriages. However the group is not arguing that issue while in Maine.

Yes, that's right fundamentalist groups...up the crazy to another level and get everyone to hate you. So stoked that a glorious group like this is based out of my state.

[Praetor]

So yeah, this is not based on preserving the sanctity of marriage or whatever that means. This is about being in denial that gay people exist.

Yeah...it's gays that are harmful to society. Not your bigoted gay-KK.

[GeeBee]

After 2 "kiss-ins" at Salt Lake Mormon Temple, gay-rights groups in San Diego plan another "kiss-in" near San Diego Mormon Temple:
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_12883282

[x togepi x]

Here's where it gets tricky then. Why is it a problem for a straight person to say they want to live in a predominantly straight community but it be ok that a gay person says they wanna live in a gay community.

i think it's the same idea that justifies women's shelter's. the idea being that the rest of the world could be considered a straight community and because of discrimination, some in the gay community want their own community as a safe space. i know that's why a lot of gay guys go to gay bars. it's because it's one of the few places they can feel safe being out. the logic behind it is, as society because more open minded, the need for "gay communities" goes down.

[loveisdead]

i think it's the same idea that justifies women's shelter's. the idea being that the rest of the world could be considered a straight community and because of discrimination, some in the gay community want their own community as a safe space. i know that's why a lot of gay guys go to gay bars. it's because it's one of the few places they can feel safe being out. the logic behind it is, as society because more open minded, the need for "gay communities" goes down.
I totally see your point, but wouldn't a good way for society to become more open minded be to have more direct exposure to the gay community?

[Mercy Medical]

I totally see your point, but wouldn't a good way for society to become more open minded be to have more direct exposure to the gay community?
Yea, but it's sort of a weird scenario because you can really only get rid of the gay only communities as long as they would feel safe in amongst everyone else.

[loveisdead]

Yea, but it's sort of a weird scenario because you can really only get rid of the gay only communities as long as they would feel safe in amongst everyone else.
That's why the entire situation is kinda sticky.

[x togepi x]

I totally see your point, but wouldn't a good way for society to become more open minded be to have more direct exposure to the gay community?

some times direct exposure is too dangerous? like where i live, we have a lot of skinheads. they give openly gay people shit. i hardly ever see two guys walking together holding hands unless they're near our gay bar, even though we have a rather large gay population since we're a college town.

i don't know, it's not really my logic, i just understand why. it's more of a defense against intolerance than a tool of promoting tolerance. obviously there are going to be some people who are okay outside of that safe space, and that's what's going to promote open mindedness, not the safe space itself.

[Z-train]

your god hates people?
Dude it was a joke about gay penguins

[Z-train]

it was a joke

[Z-train]

I do hope you're kidding. A homosexual person is equal in all ways to a straight person, what possible reason outside of ignorant bigotry is there to not allow them to be teachers or have children?

This is the same silly bullshit as is always turned to, being homosexual isn't a choice, it's who a person is. And who cares if a teacher or a parent likes women or men, that doesn't matter; what does matter is that they love their children or in the case of a teacher that he educates the children under his/her care.
it was a joke. i love gays

[The Pharmacist]

gay penguins are gay no more
http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2009/07/12/Same-sex-penguin-couple-split/UPI-56931247417354/

[Machu505]

gay penguins are gay no more
http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2009/07/12/Same-sex-penguin-couple-split/UPI-56931247417354/
Thus proving bisexuality is natural.

[Machu505]

The Senate is going to review (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/27/gay.military/index.html) DADT.

[GeeBee]

Dealing with a homophobe over in the "Devil and God" thread...

[Stormtrooper]

I do not believe gays should be allowed to marry, but it is totally against the spirit of the law and Constitution to not allow them to do so.

[Praetor]

The Senate is going to review (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/27/gay.military/index.html) DADT.
Bump because I missed this so others might have as well. Awesome news.

[GeeBee]

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=7337736

2 men arrested for "trespassing" on LDS Church Temple Square after their public display of affection will NOT be charged.

[Mercy Medical]

Dealing with a homophobe over in the "Devil and God" thread...
I'm sad I missed this debate.

[GeeBee]

I'm sad I missed this debate.
He'll be back. They always are.

[Mercy Medical]

He'll be back. They always are.
I briefly read his initial argument and all I read was "ignorant ignorant ignorant, i have no fucking idea what i'm talking about."

[GeeBee]

I briefly read his initial argument and all I read was "ignorant ignorant ignorant, i have no fucking idea what i'm talking about."

It's beyond ignorant...it's just cliche. He threw out the "unnatural", "can't reproduce", "equates with pedophilia", etc, etc. Those are SOOOOO TIRED and worn out, and hardly need an outside party to point out the insanity of such views.

[Machu505]

Clearly "unnatural" things are bad. Like prosthetic limbs and eyeglasses.

[GeeBee]

Clearly "unnatural" things are bad. Like prosthetic limbs and eyeglasses.

And clearly the gays just want to make it so that people can marry rocks and trees if they so desire.