global warming

[selftitled85]

america and most of the developed countries were able to get to where they are now economically and government wise by not having to worry about the environment. we were able to construct huge industrial cities that would pump out lots and lots of bad gasses for many years before we decided to start cleaning it up.

now the question i want to ask is what about the now developing countries? they dont get the luxury of trying to build an economy with such little global laws like we had. should we give them more leeway?

i guess you can also add to this the prospect of the worker. back in the day we would work much harder with little safety standards and not make a lot of money. now, you need to ensure the workers safety and give them a decent paycheck. even though this part is not as big in the developing world it is still important.


so what should the developing countries do?

[catscradle]

Why would they need any leeway? In our present times all of the tools and resources available are much more effecient and effective than they were back in the day, taking a great deal of stress of of the environment. Which kind of makes money more of the x factor in the development of a country, than say crude technology and labor. So, to answer your question i would say developing countries should try to get their grubby little fingers on as much money as possible. i think the better question would be more along the lines of, should developing countries be able to easily acquire loans from the already developed countries or should developing countries just let them live and learn?

[kshtoinks12]

I don't believe in global warming. I refuse to believe it. I'll keep convincing myself that its the same regular fluctuation of temperatures that cause the first and second ice ages.

[swirlofhues]

even now, strong powers like china don't have much enviromental laws restricted them. so, even if developing countries will have to meet regulations, i doubt that it would be so severe that it significantly halts them from building a better economy.

[richter915]

even now, strong powers like china don't have much enviromental laws restricted them. so, even if developing countries will have to meet regulations, i doubt that it would be so severe that it significantly halts them from building a better economy.
I think they said China might exceed the US in emissions very soon, not sure, Tom Brokaw mighta been lying.

[richter915]

I think there are much bigger problems in the way of third world countries. Global capitalism thrives on one thing and one thing only, the lower class...in this case, that "class" would be these poorer nations which make all the things developed capitalist nations consume in mass. So what I'm saying is, these countries won't ever get the opportunity to become developed because we (capitalist powers) make sure they stay down. If they do develop, it'll be few and far and it will happen very slowly...if they are seen as "developed" and not "developing" that's when there's a problem and they should abide by the limits. The industrial revolution in England and the US didn't put out as much greenhouse gasses as both nations do today.

put simply, the developed nations of the world must limit themselves now to make the biggest impact in helping end global warming, developing nations will in the future have to abide by such regulations.

[richter915]

I don't believe in global warming. I refuse to believe it. I'll keep convincing myself that its the same regular fluctuation of temperatures that cause the first and second ice ages.
global warming is just liberal propaganda. USA! USA! USA!

[we are cured]

I don't believe in global warming. I refuse to believe it. I'll keep convincing myself that its the same regular fluctuation of temperatures that cause the first and second ice ages.

I used to think the same way, until I had to do a stupid group project for a college class. What's different about the last 50 years is that the average temperature has ascended too much for it to be considered a normal fluctuation.

[livethesounds]

I used to think the same way, until I had to do a stupid group project for a college class. What's different about the last 50 years is that the average temperature has ascended too much for it to be considered a normal fluctuation.

Who says what a normal fluctuation is? Did you study if it has happend before in the past (when i say past i mean 10000s of years.)
Personally i think this is a bunch of bullshit. I was allways skeptical about it until i read Micheal Chrighton's "State of Fear" it is a fiction novel, but its based all on facts. Good read

[love_american_style]

I don't believe in global warming. I refuse to believe it. I'll keep convincing myself that its the same regular fluctuation of temperatures that cause the first and second ice ages.

it's been debunked.

[kshtoinks12]

I used to think the same way, until I had to do a stupid group project for a college class. What's different about the last 50 years is that the average temperature has ascended too much for it to be considered a normal fluctuation.
ugh, liberals. It increases exponentially, its supposed to get bigger by larger numbers each year. Why don't you go cut and run along.

[kshtoinks12]

global warming is just liberal propaganda. USA! USA! USA!You are quickly becomming my favorite member here, you could be a total *** but your love of america just shines like the morning sun.

[richter915]

You are quickly becomming my favorite member here, you could be a total *** but your love of america just shines like the morning sun.
I just say it like it is brother.

Global Warming hates freedom. Fuckin Al-qaeda lover it is.

[richter915]

Who says what a normal fluctuation is? Did you study if it has happend before in the past (when i say past i mean 10000s of years.)
Personally i think this is a bunch of bullshit. I was allways skeptical about it until i read Micheal Chrighton's "State of Fear" it is a fiction novel, but its based all on facts. Good read
peh, so is the Da Vinci Code right? The fact is is that global warming is a REAL problem...it's not "terror level lemon marangue" problem...if ur such a big stickler for facts, the facts supporting the idea of global warming should far outweigh any of the other "facts" against it.

[strawberry12]

even if you don't believe that pollution is causing global warming, pollution is causing a hole in the ozone layer...

[justinevans]

Global Warming is a huge problem, but the government can only do so much (not saying they've done enough yet). But citizens are also responsible. The biggest problems are in the far east anyway. If we can't stop them from doing what they are doing, what are we going to do?

[richter915]

Global Warming is a huge problem, but the government can only do so much (not saying they've done enough yet). But citizens are also responsible. The biggest problems are in the far east anyway. If we can't stop them from doing what they are doing, what are we going to do?
how're citizens responsible?

[justinevans]

how're citizens responsible?

Um they buy the SUVs and gas guzzlers. They bought all the aerosole canned products?

Once the government takes responsibility for its people, people lose responsibility for themselves.

People are the ones that make the decisions and choices as consumers, producers, and regulators.

[HeyCoffeeEyes]

The reason you need government regulation is because the environment is a classic example of a free-rider problem: everyone benefits from a clean environment, no matter who provides it. So why do the dirty work yourself? If it gets bad enough SOMEONE will do something about it. So you keep filling up your SUV because you're not going to be the sucker coughing up the extr dough for hybrid, some other shmucks will take care of that. Problem is, EVERYONE adopts that mindset, and the problem is never addressed.

Government regulation solves free-rider problems because it can compel everyone to do their part. For example, by pushing towards renewable energy sources and regulating crbon emissions as offered up in the Safe Climate Act (wow, I hope that bill passes).

[HeyCoffeeEyes]

Who says what a normal fluctuation is? Did you study if it has happend before in the past (when i say past i mean 10000s of years.)
Personally i think this is a bunch of bullshit. I was allways skeptical about it until i read Micheal Chrighton's "State of Fear" it is a fiction novel, but its based all on facts. Good read

Michael Chricton is a hack, and "State of Fear" is about as based in fact as "Jurassic Park".

[richter915]

Um they buy the SUVs and gas guzzlers. They bought all the aerosole canned products?

Once the government takes responsibility for its people, people lose responsibility for themselves.

People are the ones that make the decisions and choices as consumers, producers, and regulators.
I agree with you in that aspect but personal greenhouse emissions are not as big as on the industry level. Industries can be regulated by government intervention and have been controlled in the past...this needs to be done again. On a personal level, people buy what's given to them. They see Hummers, they'll buy hummers. Hummers used to only be military vehicles but then GM chose to produce it en masse...rich people will buy it if it's produce. I say, stop the production of these sorta vehicles and you'll see better results. Put more money into R&D for cleaner burning fuels, alternative energy, and better cars...none of that can be done on a personal basis but if better alternatives (and more importantly, cheaper alternatives) are offered...I think people will do the right thing.

[youcomebeforeyo]

Michael Chricton is a hack, and "State of Fear" is about as based in fact as "Jurassic Park".

Funny that the Bush administration invited him to the White House but the 1000's of scientists who have been campaigning the dangers of global warming have never stepped through the door.

The person who's opinion changed due to one book, wow narrow minded. Now go read a book on the scientific fact behind global warming and think. If that's enough for you to handle.

[halfamile]

I don't have a problem with believing global warming is a legitimate thing, but fucking shit balls...these environmentalists are so damn over dramatic about it...it's this drama that only makes them look crazy...and they wonder why people don't believe them

[BreakerBreaker]

I don't have a problem with believing global warming is a legitimate thing, but fucking shit balls...these environmentalists are so damn over dramatic about it...it's this drama that only makes them look crazy...and they wonder why people don't believe them

End your life.

[Justin_stacy]

I agree with you in that aspect but personal greenhouse emissions are not as big as on the industry level. Industries can be regulated by government intervention and have been controlled in the past...this needs to be done again. On a personal level, people buy what's given to them. They see Hummers, they'll buy hummers. Hummers used to only be military vehicles but then GM chose to produce it en masse...rich people will buy it if it's produce. I say, stop the production of these sorta vehicles and you'll see better results. Put more money into R&D for cleaner burning fuels, alternative energy, and better cars...none of that can be done on a personal basis but if better alternatives (and more importantly, cheaper alternatives) are offered...I think people will do the right thing.

The auto industry produces what the consumer demands, not the other way around. GM bought the rights to sell a civilian version of the hummer because it saw the waiting list AM had created over the years for the limited number of military HUMVEE's it allotted to the general public. The public wanted and then GM supplied.

That is where Paris's point resonates. If the public cared or felt "global warming" was a valid threat they could make the auto industry change. That is where the public, in this instance, can be faulted. But they don’t, they care more about the sense of security and protection a large SUV provides then the added cost in fuel or environmental harms one creates.

The auto industry produces what the public wants, until the public wants a real alternative fuel or is willing to buy small, less safe, subcompact automobiles, they won't be made.

[justinevans]

The auto industry produces what the consumer demands, not the other way around. GM bought the rights to sell a civilian version of the hummer because it saw the waiting list AM had created over the years for the limited number of military HUMVEE's it allotted to the general public. The public wanted and then GM supplied.

That is where Paris's point resonates. If the public cared or felt "global warming" was a valid threat they could make the auto industry change. That is where the public, in this instance, can be faulted. But they don’t, they care more about the sense of security and protection a large SUV provides then the added cost in fuel or environmental harms one creates.

The auto industry produces what the public wants, until the public wants a real alternative fuel or is willing to buy small, less safe, subcompact automobiles, they won't be made.

Also the fact that not that many people have the $$ to go and buy new cars nor is their enough of any alternative fuel source to supply the whole country right now.

[strawberry12]

The way our environment is deteriorating, I hope alternate fuel sourced cars become the norm in 10 years or so at least. It's not just global warming that is an issue, humans are being affected by all the pollution too, with cancer rates drastically increasing in recent times.

[selftitled85]

bmw is coming out with its first hydro electric car next year. (i think thats what it is)

[catscradle]

Funny that the Bush administration invited him to the White House but the 1000's of scientists who have been campaigning the dangers of global warming have never stepped through the door.

The person who's opinion changed due to one book, wow narrow minded. Now go read a book on the scientific fact behind global warming and think. If that's enough for you to handle.

ha, funny that you say scientific fact b/c you can ask any scientist in the world that there is no such thing as an exact scientific fact. There is only theory and law, neither of which are absolute fact. And which there are neither of for the global warming fiasco. So, is that enough for you to handle?



p.s. i hope you realize there are just as many scientists out there that say global warming is a myth, and have substantial data to back there claims, as there are that say it's a real thing

[richter915]

The auto industry produces what the consumer demands, not the other way around. GM bought the rights to sell a civilian version of the hummer because it saw the waiting list AM had created over the years for the limited number of military HUMVEE's it allotted to the general public. The public wanted and then GM supplied.

That is where Paris's point resonates. If the public cared or felt "global warming" was a valid threat they could make the auto industry change. That is where the public, in this instance, can be faulted. But they don’t, they care more about the sense of security and protection a large SUV provides then the added cost in fuel or environmental harms one creates.

The auto industry produces what the public wants, until the public wants a real alternative fuel or is willing to buy small, less safe, subcompact automobiles, they won't be made.
I agree...the American public is a bunch of idiots for the most part but I think that if you cut off production of these vehicles it will be a quicker and better solution to the problem then saying we should inform the public and let them decide. We elect officials into the government, and if the gov't was to step in and curb the automotive industry from producing such gas guzzlers...no one would buy them and it would help. But that will almost never happen because select government officials do benefit from high gas consumption. The industry is moving in the right direction as, I think, toyota will be moving all hybrid vehicles within the next few years. Now if they moved on to selling only hybrid small cars...that'd be even better...but economics won't allow for that.

Educating people would definitely help and letting them choose would be ideal...but again people are dumb and choose to live in the here and now...they worry too much about their small penises and what their neighbors buy...and they could give two shits about the costs of it all.

[richter915]

bmw is coming out with its first hydro electric car next year. (i think thats what it is)
bout time.

[richter915]

p.s. i hope you realize there are just as many scientists out there that say global warming is a myth, and have substantial data to back there claims, as there are that say it's a real thing
not true, there're far more scientists who know that global warming is fact. Remember, the occurance of global warming is fact...the reasons why are what's theory.

[rocktometal]

http://www.junkscience.com/MSU_Temps/Annual_with_disagreement.gif

global warming is an argument everyone will never agree on but i don't beleive in it.