Victory Records Counter Sues Hawthorne Heights

[Pat Marquez]

Victory Records (http://www.victoryrecords.com) counter sues (http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1540810/20060913/hawthorne_heights.jhtml?headlines=t rue) Hawthorne Heights (http://www.absolutepunk.net/hawthorneheights).

[Mitch]

wtf?!?!?!?!?!?!

[Mitch]

This is stupid. I hope Victory's end is near.

[Pat Marquez]

wtf?!?!?!?!?!?!
It's just the other side of the story...

[GeorgeMichaelBluth]

hahaha... fantastic.. gotta love tony brummel

[skeeter988]

wait so hawthorne heights doesn't own their masters right?

[watashi-revenge]

No one thought Tony was just going to sit on his hands and do nothing about this did they?

[xdrummerxdudex]

rrrright

[Tomisthekiller]

I've never been a big HH fan but with all the crap Victorys been up to in the past couple years it's hard to side with anything they say...

[ACA]

Interesting response.

[mikeyxxcore]

9 out of 10 times, a band on any label doesnt 'own' their masters.

[raycer]

dun dun duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuun.

[failedXromance]

I think on presidence alone, HTH will win. Tony has a long long history of being a douche and blowing shit for himeself

[ascitiesburn101]

I hate Tony Brummel with a passion. But love him for suing Hawthorne Heights..

[domesticyeti]

im really interested in how this is going to turn out.

even though i dont like HH, i hope they can take tony down

[love_american_style]

oooohh...Tony just metaphorically bitch-slapped them!

[failedXromance]

n reference to the "manifesto" the band posted on its site, the suit claims that it has severely damaged "IVictory's reputation in the industry and has "demoralized" its staff."

I think they are demoralized cause they work at Victory

[bigmike]

Boy, this totally wasn't predictable at all. :rolleyes:

someone should sue Tony for signing and shoving shitty bands and music down our throats while bands like Spitalfield get no pub at fucking all.

[Poultrylicious]

ohhhhhhhh snaaaaaaaaaaaaap




is it old yet?

[love_american_style]

wow...i'm so suprised this thread is blowing up.

(sarcasm, obviously)

[Joe DeAndrea]

Hmm....

[dukeboy1986]

Haha, I'm sure it will ladies and gents.

[stevecrumb]

It's just the other side of the story...

but his side of the story is lying about stuff that there's factual proof of. he didn't tell people to cover up the other CDs in stores? i'm sure people still have that crap saved in their inbox. not to mention he apologized about it. why would you apologize about something you didn't do? this guy deserves every crappy thing that happens to him in life.

[Heartcore]

I know that it's typical of a record label to own a bands masters but how about owning the actual name of the band? And if victory didn't put out that so called "battle cry for rock" and the band didn't either...then who is responsible for telling people to hide ne-yo cd's, because we all knew about it.

[Spooky]

they own the name hawthorne heights?

[PunkVideoGuys]

Boy, this totally wasn't predictable at all. :rolleyes:
.

just like the Detroit Tigers downfall to the CHISOXXX ;)

[Melissa Johnson]

Victorys reputation was ruined far before this ...

[thewebguy]

hopefully this will go to court and we'll see who is lying and who ends up rich. both of them are making very provable claims against each other (like how much money has been made etc etc)

in reality they will settle out of court though, victory will let them out of their contract and give them some money, and the victory logo will be on all their cds forever, or some comobination of those things.

[PunkVideoGuys]

Victorys reputation was ruined far before this ...

word. so many things...yet when they continue to come up with bands like silverstein, HH, and Aiden who all sell 200-500K it's hard to predict their downfall...

[saving jonathan]

on the basis of what...putting on a shitty live show?

[offsetgroupie]

just like the Detroit Tigers downfall to the CHISOXXX ;)

i think you mean the Twins

[Heartcore]

i think you mean the Twins

oooooohhhhh

[NationalProduct]

"The label also asserts that it owns the rights to the master recordings of the two albums the band has delivered so far, and to the trademark on the name Hawthorne Heights."

fuckin ouch!!!!

[spencersface]

That sucks..

[yutsmcgee]

I love how Victory is now trying to deny that they wrote the "manifesto". They are just straight up liars.

[notoaststereo]

tony is a bad person

[spikestoyou]

I'm mostly amused that Hawthorne Heights doesn't even own the trademark on their name. Is that common? Also, is that trademark for the artwork/logo the band uses on albums and such? Or is it on the two words, used together in any form as long as it refers to a band?

[a speedo model]

hahaha, this is awesome...

[pasthefence49]

Hawthorne heights is sueing for thier talent back.


Nothing against tony, hes an awesome buisness man gets his money out of people GO Victory GO

[Jason Tate]

I'm torn. I want Spitalfield to do really well, yet .. eh.

[love_american_style]

Nothing against tony, hes an awesome buisness man gets his money out of people GO Victory GO

....as much as i hate tony....you bring up a good point.

[Jason Tate]

Hawthorne heights is sueing for thier talent back.


Nothing against tony, hes an awesome buisness man gets his money out of people GO Victory GO

:huh:
Please don't visit my website anymore.

[iihungrieii]

cant say i didnt see this coming

[Mitch]

Now is when another band should step in and sue VR.

[TgE ARTdamage]

uh...

I really like reading about this. I think it could really change a lot of how business is done in the industry if it goes to court and gets some good publicity. Maybe it'll start to reveal some of the things that really go down at a record label and shit.

Or maybe it won't amount ot anything, and this is just one of those situations where you catch your best friend screwing your wife, everyone throws a fit, someone gets kicked in the balls, and you get your wife back.

[idobi]

I'm mostly amused that Hawthorne Heights doesn't even own the trademark on their name. Is that common? Also, is that trademark for the artwork/logo the band uses on albums and such? Or is it on the two words, used together in any form as long as it refers to a band?

Artwork is copyrighted. Logos can be trademarks if used as such. FYI, Victory Records filed for the Hawthorne Heights trademark on August 3... The lawsuit was filed on August 7... Someone saw the lawsuit coming...

[TgE ARTdamage]

Now is when another band should step in and sue VR.

Not really. The appropriate time, if any, for another band to follow suit, is when it's clear HH is going to win the case.

[Jason Tate]

Artwork is copyrighted. Logos can be trademarks if used as such. FYI, Victory Records filed for the Hawthorne Heights trademark on August 3... The lawsuit was filed on August 7... Someone saw the lawsuit coming...
Man, the apt. complexes with the name around the country are probably pissed. Haha.

Attempting to trademark a band's name on your roster like that - is just a low blow - no matter how you slice it. If they had the name before they signed - prior use should dictate they're the owners of said name.

However, the suit will cause all sorts of problems - and if it's tied up for long - the band won't be able to release any material until everyone has forgotten about them.

This won't end well for either party the longer it drags on.

[TgE ARTdamage]

Man, the apt. complexes with the name around the country are probably pissed. Haha.

Attempting to trademark a band's name on your roster like that - is just a low blow - no matter how you slice it. If they had the name before they signed - prior use should dictate they're the owners of said name.

However, the suit will cause all sorts of problems - and if it's tied up for long - the band won't be able to release any material until everyone has forgotten about them.

This won't end well for either party the longer it drags on.

I like how you point out that it could actually drag out long enough for people TO forget about the band. And I completely agree that it's a likely scenario.

But I also like to think that this could get good publicity, and It could lead to better things for HH, Victory, and the entire Industry as a whole. Or maybe that's just the little kid inside me hoping everyone will kiss and make up, and lollipops will be served all around.

[zizou1790]

this really was confusing but i hope big tony goes down

[lostandalone]

*gasp*
victory should burn for sueing

[TgE ARTdamage]

so many people are lurking in this thread.

[Jason Tate]

so many people are lurking in this thread.
They're waiting for something to push it over the edge..

[fearthesloths]

i doubt that HH will win this one. i hope they do... but i also hope they can afford an equal or better legal representation than victory can... but thinking about what the lawsuit is over... i doubt it.

[TgE ARTdamage]

They're waiting for something to push it over the edge..

shall i start shoving then?

[xvolcomstonex]

"Meloni confirmed to MTV News that he sent a cease-and-desist letter to Virgin Records and its parent company, EMI, last week concerning their discussions with Hawthorne Heights."-- i found that interesting, is it just me, or does virgin seem to be appearing everywhere.

[LeaveHerAlone]

I think on presidence alone, HTH will win. Tony has a long long history of being a douche and blowing shit for himeself


Yeah, pretty sure Hawthorne Heights is just two words man.
HH would make for a better abbreviation.
Just sayin'... Just throwin' that out there.

[alaskamyfriend]

i think we need more info on this story.

[timmysavedlatin]

i really dont like hh at all, but hope they bring it in this case.

can you call witness in a suit? if so, that'd be sweet if they called thursday and tbs. they'd win for sure.

[shwagtm]

people saying stuff like "hawthorn heights will win based on the fact that everyone hates victory" and "if tbs and thursday are called as witnesses HH will win for sure!!!" are just retarded.

the courts dont give a shit who hates victory or what bands they bring in.

that being said, i hope victory goes down anyway.

[rufiocardtime]

shame on victory records. regardless of who is in the right and who is in the wrong, the statement(s) that victory released sound extremely unprofessional.

[Jason Tate]

people saying stuff like "hawthorn heights will win based on the fact that everyone hates victory" and "if tbs and thursday are called as witnesses HH will win for sure!!!" are just retarded.

the courts dont give a shit who hates victory or what bands they bring in.

that being said, i hope victory goes down anyway.
Well, bringing in two artists who also had legal issues with Victory would actually make sense.

[ThatGuy]

according to someone close to this case...

"tony brummel is MINE!"

and also, spitalfield could have left victory earlier, but tony wouldn't let them. so think about that when you go to pick up their new record

[ebullientsoul]

I'm no lawyer, but I don't think it can hurt HH's case to call Thursday, Hatebreed, Integrity, Taking Back Sunday, Hoods, and Straylight Run to the stand and say this kind of thing happened to us.

[Roadie]

Like it or not Brummel proves a good point that this might be a ploy to go to a bigger label. He is right, it happens all the time. Example: Autopilot Off

[failedXromance]

how many lawsuits have been brought against Victory? I can only think of like 4

[Jason Tate]

Like it or not Brummel proves a good point that this might be a ploy to go to a bigger ploy. He is right, it happens all the time. Example: Autopilot Off
So, the band wants to go to a bigger label? I didn't think that was ever hidden. Forcing a band to be on a label they no longer wish to be on - is stupid.

The acts Victory took while HH was on their label - also stupid.

The label not paying their bands what they're due - historic fact.

[POP! FCKRS]

i guess victory is about to cut their wrists and black their eyes (cut their wrists and black their eyes.)


you fucks that like this band suck.

[chicpromoter]

if they made $4 million dollars from touring and merch alone... why the fuck do they care what label they're on? a major's not going to do THAT much more for them. if i made an 1/8 of that in a shitty band like hawthorne heights i'd be singing tony brummel/victory records' praises.

but brummel's still an asshole that owns a crap label, regardless.

[Co and Ca]

If Tony Brummel puts on a knit cap, who is he? He's Tony Brummel in a knit cap!

[cjmarsicano]

Now is when another band should step in and sue VR.

Then we'll start a pool right now. I think either Silverstein, Aiden, or Bayside should be the next to sue.

[cjmarsicano]

Brummel has about as much of a case against Hawthone Heights as he has hair on his head. (Now that I've gotten the snarky part of the comment out of the way, I'll get serious...)

HH had the wherewithal to post (through Alternative Press) copies of their contract and communications with Victory, and their copyright forms, when they announced their lawsuit. The contract clearly states that Hawthone Heights still retains the right to their name, their publishing, and their master recordings, and that Victory was only a licensee. And this was a contract that, apparently, Victory Records drafted.

Tony, just give Hawthorne Heights back their master tapes and publishing, take your short-term 3% kickback from Virgin when they reissue the HH back catalog, and shut the fuck up. You're digging yourself a deep hole.

[mybreakingpoint]

if i've said it once,

i've said it a thousand times

fuck victory. thank you for tell all your friends, full collapse, and a few others, but fuck you.

[TheWeakest]

i find myself not caring about this whole situation

[fullerm]

i don't think you realize what kind of trouble victory is in. there is no way they are getting sided on this one. victory is done. hh heights will walk away the victors and with a new label. did you read those excerpts from their lawsuit again hh!?! that reeked of EXTREME desperation and seemed completely unfounded. i cant believe that in those lawsuit papers they 'claimed' tony was responsible for HH blowing up???? you gotta be fucking kidding me!

[fullerm]

it sounded like his lawyer was his fucking brother!

[TgE ARTdamage]

Uh, I've been gone the past couple hours, but some of the shit spewing from people's mouths right now, is just downright stupid.

I think I've heard one person come up with a logical thought so far.

[leftstranded]

i'm still waiting for the person who wants to say "we don't know anything about victory and we shouldn't be talking shit about them"

you know it's coming

[goughjustin]

so basically if victory owns the trademark "Hawthore Heights" then even if they get out of their contract and go to a major, they would need to change their name in order to produce more music.....so they may as well break up and re-form on a major...

[SpenXcore]

on the basis of what...putting on a shitty live show?
Yeah, HH has to be one of the worst bands in terms of live performances. But about the 'manifesto',its painstakingly obvious that someone who behaves in the manner that Brummel does wouldnt need help from anyone other than himself to ruin his reputation or that of his record label. After those emails to Steve Jobs (if they're real) there should be no doubt about how much of an asshole this guy is. Victory is bad enough without Brummel, but knowing that the figurehead is someone like this is just more reason not to support the company

[bRainDeAdMonKeY]

A war is coming. Choose your side!

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/braindeadmonkey/civilwar.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/braindeadmonkey/tony.jpg

If you get it, give yourself 673 cool points...

[Chris Fallon]

Seems very shady, especially coming from a guy like Tony Brummel.

"Demoralizing" the staff...give me a break - Tony is the guy who does that, not some stupid fucking "manifesto"!

I side with Hawthorne Heights, because how many bands before them have openly complained about Victory as a label? Plenty. And HH is just the band that decided to stick it to them.

[TheBaroness]

I think this is just a ploy to force HH into a settlement whereby they stay on the label - e.g. if you want to stay together as a band under your current moniker, you better drop your suit and stay on Victory.

[xliz]

This, unforunately, is the music business.

[DeadPoetic]

A war is coming. Choose your side!

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/braindeadmonkey/civilwar.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g96/braindeadmonkey/tony.jpg

If you get it, give yourself 673 cool points...

I so might put that on my myspace.

[Lehcar]

this is interesting to watch

[Ambulance X]

Go Victory! I hope they squeeze and rob HH blind. That's what they get for making such generic, shitty, piss-poor excuse for music,

[rockydenis]

Check this out.....get your very own HH gold record.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hawthorne-Heights-authentic-gold-album_W0QQitemZ230026931142QQihZ013 QQcategoryZ2312QQssPageNameZWDVWQQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Kevin_Eudora]

Drama!!!

[pianocore]

i hope the judge rules that hawthorne heights should stop making music.

[SpenXcore]

Check this out.....get your very own HH gold record.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hawthorne-Heights-authentic-gold-album_W0QQitemZ230026931142QQihZ013 QQcategoryZ2312QQssPageNameZWDVWQQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem
lol I wouldn't be suprised if that's Brummel's auction