mewithoutYou vs Downloading

[Jason Tate]

mewithoutYou (http://www.absolutepunk.net/mewithoutyou) have a new album coming out next Tuesday. We currently have the band featured on the main page and are offering a free download on their AP.net profile (http://www.absolutepunk.net/mewithoutyou) for a song from their new album. The band recently addressed the "leaking" of their album, and I thought the message was one which should be given more attention.
so, as some of you may know, the record is seeping out of the internets pores, dirty and filthy, sweaty and gritty, pre maturely. This isn't a call to go searching for these songs on the superhighway but a call to not go searching for these songs and to see that we have worked really hard on making a total package album, beautiful artworked insert, a record with life in it, actual life, breathing, touring, writing, half a year, all of our efforts poured into this thing, this Brother Sister thing. None of the band members are "pissed" but rather slightly dissapointed that people who are our friends, people that we don't know and people that are fans of the band are sharing this thing we worked really hard to create and keep off the internet. It's not even about album sales. It's about waiting, until the day it comes out, because in reality, this thing has been done since march and we had to wait, so should you. For our fathers it was LPs, wax records, doubled sided black discs, for our aunts it was cassettes with annoying paper fold outs, for us it was both of the above and cds with booklets, art work, maybe a sticker, maybe a poster, what I am getting at is the physical package that sits in your hand, tearing the plastic off of it, taking it home, putting on headphones and dissecting, reading along with the lyrics, reading the thank yous, wondering about all the sounds. When something is just ripped off of the internet, you have an mp3, an invisible encoded sound file, that may even be an unmastered version are incomplete, you aren't hearing it the way the artist intended and thats what an album is and we, mewithoutyou are a band that makes albums, we try our hardest to do it a little different each time, come up with a flow, let it roll from the speakers to your ears. It's just a little disheartening is all. I am a fan of hearing an album the way it waws made, take the 48 to 60 minutes, for any group or band, sit and listen to it all the way through, sit and try to think about what they were thinking, try and sit and hear it all, even if you don't get it or feel what is going on, eventually you either will love it or hate it.
so, with a whole lot of nothing being said.
please, don't accept the record from anybody, friend or foe.
don't even listen to it.
just wait two weeks and celebrate the release of our third album with us.
the surpise has been ruined for some.
don't ruin it for yourself or others.
damn the internet.
peace be with you.
love rickie

[fenderbassist]

they are so right but every bands cd gets leaked these days

[armorforchiodos]

awesome...totally agree

[straylighthaste]

well said. mwy rules, and i am holding out until the release date...i can't wait!!

[MattRM]

I don't think anything any band says will stop the downloaders from downloading.

I think bands just need to realize that their album will be leaked, and people will download it.

[a speedo model]

i hate it when CD's leak...

[love_american_style]

that sucks...they need to make a living too....and their alleged fans are stealing from them.

[incubusjohnny]

Im guilty, i have the cd but will not give it out to anyone. I love this band and would never want their record sales to be low because i wanted to hear it first. I will go out and buy the cd when it comes out. Some people just dont do that because they dont respect even their favorite bands. Sometimes i wish i would have waited because the waiting makes the cd that much better. But enough said, go buy the cd when it comes out because it is an A+.

[.KillMoneen.]

I don't think anything any band says will stop the downloaders from downloading.

I think bands just need to realize that their album will be leaked, and people will download it.


you obviously didnt do well in english in highschool. The point was that they want people to wait. They understood it would be leaked they just want people to wait for the full package not settle for stealing it.

[Jason Tate]

I don't think anything any band says will stop the downloaders from downloading.

I think bands just need to realize that their album will be leaked, and people will download it.
Accepting that it's going to happen; doesn't make it right.

[You Got Owned]

if it's a band that i'm really into, i'll download it if it leaked, and i'll still buy it.
having the actual end product kicks ass.

[loveofliberty]

it's unfortunate that some bands have to go great lengths just to make sure NO ONE, not even their closest friends, have a copy of the record before release. you can't trust anyone. one person shares innocently shares it with a friend, then that person shares it and so on, so forth.

[mr chainsaw]

There is a record store I got to often that always sells advance or promo copies of cd's that havent been released yet. Yesterday I bought the new Spitalfield album "Better Than Knowing..." with full cover art and everthing. Is that wrong? Is it same as downloading it from the internet? I am experiencing it as the artist intended so besides hearing it at a different time then everyone else...I should get the same experience as I would have gotten if I had waited and bought it new.

[Jason Tate]

There is a record store I got to often that always sells advance or promo copies of cd's that havent been released yet. Yesterday I bought the new Spitalfield album "Better Than Knowing..." with full cover art and everthing. Is that wrong? Is it same as downloading it from the internet? I am experiencing it as the artist intended so besides hearing it at a different time then everyone else...I should get the same experience as I would have gotten if I had waited and bought it new.
Well, the band will not see any money from that sale, and the transaction will not count as part of their "scans" for the first week. So yes, it does hurt the band. Plus, Victory's promos are not full art or what you'll get in stores on the 3rd.

[totallysweat]

I don't agree with that statement at all. I don't see why they're so aggrevated. Personally, I buy all of the albums that I download as long as they're worth it (considering music these days, this isn't many), but I will always purchase mwY's albums regardless. However, I don't see a problem with downloading music if you don't feel like waiting. Saves the Day has been my favorite band since I was 14 years old, and when all of their albums since In Reverie leaked I told myself "I'm going to wait until the release," but I didn't. I got too excited, like I did for this band. If people don't want to buy an album, so what? That's their choice. If they don't want to take in all of the artwork and thanks and whatnot, who cares? The band should be content knowing they have at least made a fan out of their effort, and most of the time if a person likes the album that much, they'll end up buying it anyway. Even if they DON'T buy it, chances are they're still going to listen to the songs, learn the words, and go to see the band the next time they're around. I understand that in this case it's not about the money or whatever, but why should people have to feel the way that you do when you buy a cd? Like I said, I know exactly what Rickie is saying and I feel the same way he does (about buying cds and having the "whole package"), but that doesn't mean I think EVERYONE has to feel that way.

And all of you people saying "ooh it's stealing from the band," it really isn't going to hurt them that much. I'm sure this has been said over and over again, but do your research if you actually think bands hurt from a little piracy. Granted piracy will effect a band like mwY's pockets moreso than someone like Dr. Dre or Lars Ulrich, it's not THAT big of a problem. Look it up.

Don't get me wrong, I love this band, I've talked to Aaron multiple times and I'm friends with people that are very close friends with all of the guys, not to mention I've seen them more times than I can even remember, but I just simply don't think everyone has to be on the same level with this whole thing.

[OneFellSwoop]

i used to love to see who the featured band was but for some reason now i dont care or even look

[Jason Tate]

i used to love to see who the featured band was but for some reason now i dont care or even look
Why? Is there a reason? Something we could do or fix to make you care again?

[Jason Tate]

I don't agree with that statement at all. I don't see why they're so aggrevated. Personally, I buy all of the albums that I download as long as they're worth it (considering music these days, this isn't many), but I will always purchase mwY's albums regardless.

Just because you do this, doesn't mean everyone does. If everyone did, there wouldn't be a problem. Furthermore, that's not the point. Re-read what he wrote.


However, I don't see a problem with downloading music if you don't feel like waiting. Saves the Day has been my favorite band since I was 14 years old, and when all of their albums since In Reverie leaked I told myself "I'm going to wait until the release," but I didn't. I got too excited, like I did for this band. If people don't want to buy an album, so what?

So what? Well, you see, it sort of matters - because if people don't buy the band's CD - then they aren't able to keep being a band. Shocking!

That's their choice. If they don't want to take in all of the artwork and thanks and whatnot, who cares? The band should be content knowing they have at least made a fan out of their effort, and most of the time if a person likes the album that much, they'll end up buying it anyway. Even if they DON'T buy it, chances are they're still going to listen to the songs, learn the words, and go to see the band the next time they're around.

No, actually it should be the ARTISTS' decision, because it's their work. THEIR ART. They own it. Just because you CAN steal it, doesn't make it right or not matter to the artist that their work is being experienced in a form they never intended it to be. Furthermore, speculating that the artist may see potential profits based on a criminal act, is just that, speculation. If you download, and buy, then more power to you - good, that's how people SHOULD BE. But you know darn well the majority of the downloading/burning kids aren't doing that. CDRs are traded like baseball cards in highschools.

I understand that in this case it's not about the money or whatever, but why should people have to feel the way that you do when you buy a cd? Like I said, I know exactly what Rickie is saying and I feel the same way he does (about buying cds and having the "whole package"), but that doesn't mean I think EVERYONE has to feel that way.

And all of you people saying "ooh it's stealing from the band," it really isn't going to hurt them that much. I'm sure this has been said over and over again, but do your research if you actually think bands hurt from a little piracy. Granted piracy will effect a band like mwY's pockets moreso than someone like Dr. Dre or Lars Ulrich, it's not THAT big of a problem. Look it up.

I have looked it up; you're dead wrong. DEAD wrong. Especially for smaller artists. The money they lose off the albums themselves might not be significant, but you have to take into account the HUNDREDS of other things that are directly correlated with album sales. Bands can't get on tours, can't headline tours, can't get support, can't get their label to spend $, can't record new albums, can't get $ for merch ... the list is ENDLESS. All based on album sales. Stop believing this bullshit, it's ruining artists.


Don't get me wrong, I love this band, I've talked to Aaron multiple times and I'm friends with people that are very close friends with all of the guys, not to mention I've seen them more times than I can even remember, but I just simply don't think everyone has to be on the same level with this whole thing

And I don't think I've ever seen a more misguided and misinformed poster on my website.

[traumalikerain]

i like you, Jason Tate.

EDIT: by the way, amazing band.

[KarolaBloch]

i've waiting and i will continue to do so.. come tuesday.. i will purchase two albums that leaked a long time ago.. and i will hear them for the first time. i am excited

[mr chainsaw]

Well, the band will not see any money from that sale, and the transaction will not count as part of their "scans" for the first week. So yes, it does hurt the band. Plus, Victory's promos are not full art or what you'll get in stores on the 3rd.

I think I understand...aside from the money...part of the experience of buying a official release is knowing that you supported the band.

[Jason Tate]

I think I understand...aside from the money...part of the experience of buying a official release is knowing that you supported the band.
For me it is - because then I know I'll get to continue buying/hearing their albums for a few more years at least.

[boldt_action]

Now i feel bad for having it.

[Branevember31]

i downloaded it, but i am defintely gonna buy this. they deserve it

[alexwohl29_90]

I am waiting...but I occasionally download a leak. I only download it if I know that I'll buy the CD, though.

I can't wait for this album, and my experiences with the first two mwY albums were great...so I am sure I won't be let down by this CD.

I neeeeed this album, though.

[alexwohl29_90]

I really respect everything Tate said in that message, and everything Rickie shared, really put everything into a different perspective.

[youcomebeforeyo]

I've heard most of the songs on Brother, Sister. My friends (avid mewithoutYou fans) have got it and i've heard stuff at their houses. But i'm waiting for the release, because no matter how awesome an album is, having the physical copy is just cooler.

[12:46AM]

awesome. i was hoping this would make the main page. i can't wait till tuesday. and i'm glad i waited untill the official RELEASE date to listen to this cd.

as a side note, i talked to the lead singer, aaron, about this. he said that he wasn't too disappointed about it leaking personally. but he was bummed out by the fact that there are a lot of people who depend on the sales of albums. countless people behind the scenes are being affected by albums being leaked. not only the artists are affected. he told me that he makes more than enough money as it is. more than he'd ever need, he said. his reason being that he doesn't need much money seeing as he lives with his mother, wears clothes that he finds, has no car, no cell phone, etc, etc. oh, and as he was telling me this, i was eating a sandwich from a starbucks dumpster that he found and gave to me. so he doesn't even need to buy his own food.

i know he doesn't like to hear it, but he really is an inspiration to me and countless others...

[x togepi x]

what's so bad about downloading a leak when you already know you're going to buy the physical album when it comes out?

it pisses me off when people don't buy cds and just download (if they have the money to spend) too, but I still don't see the actual harm behind downloading a leak when you already know that you'll be buying the new one the day it comes out.

for example, I have the new unwed sailor cd that doesn't come out till october. I bought it at a show on monday. I have a friend who really wants it, and will be buying it the day it comes out. What's the harm in me letting him borrow my copy when I know that he's going to be buying his own?

[catchmealone]

I feel kinda guilty for having this and sharing it with one friend, who is a big mwy fan. I've only listened through the cd once(fantastic cd), and I planned on listening again, but now I've changed my mind. I will not listen to this cd again until it is released and I buy the album(which sadly, due to finaces at the time, won't be for a week or two after the release).


as a side note, i talked to the lead singer, aaron, about this. he said that he wasn't too disappointed about it leaking personally. but he was bummed out by the fact that there are a lot of people who depend on the sales of albums. countless people behind the scenes are being affected by albums being leaked. not only the artists are affected. he told me that he makes more than enough money as it is. more than he'd ever need, he said. his reason being that he doesn't need much money seeing as he lives with his mother, wears clothes that he finds, has no car, no cell phone, etc, etc. oh, and as he was telling me this, i was eating a sandwich from a starbucks dumpster that he found and gave to me. so he doesn't even need to buy his own food.

i know he doesn't like to hear it, but he really is an inspiration to me and countless others...

Aaron truely is a fantastic person. Very modest, but very worthy of praise. Such an amazing person.

[crowl-E]

they can count on my purchase....saosin on the other hand is a different story......(fuck the hype)

[Ryan Imhof]

Makes me feel like a dick for downloading it.

[NameTaken69]

i resisted all temptations and i havent downloaded it, i plan on buying one maybe two copies on tuesday. im fucking excited

[logantogovcentr]

Dear Jason Tate,

How do you, then, justify all of the pre-releases you get? Do you go out and buy each album that is sent to you afterwards? Do you personally give back each of these copies after you've completed whatever tasks you've completed with them? Are you certain that the integrity of these records that are sent to you are kept safe and are not put in a compromising situation in which they could be taken from you? Do you feel you have a moral responsibility in this situation?

You refer to the act of downloading music as stealing, in the same light, isn't rewriting poetry that another wrote stealing? Is transcribing the script of a television show stealing? Is taping a television show stealing? Is performing a broadway show on a high school stage stealing? Isn't quoting a lyric from a song stealing? Isn't reproducing a summary of a chapter in a book stealing? Hell, isn't writing a review of a record stealing?

I mean, think about it. Writing a CD review has to be a theft issue! I can probably say that in most, if not a majority of the albums you receive are given to you for free. The first issue, what makes you think that you're priviledged to get these works of art for free? I mean, aren't you cheating yourselves by accepting albums that don't have the proper artwork, liner notes, disc art, and the like? Aren't you cheating your readers by reviewing a product that is potentially unmastered and unfinished? Furthermore, because you have a website that is considered to be professional, that automatically means that you guys are free of any speculation as to what happens to the albums after they are finished? Do you force your reviewers to destroy the albums after they've been reviewed? Do your force your reviewers to purchase the albums they've reviewed afterwards? Yeah, I do realize that these artists or labels send them to you for free, but because of your stance on how leaked albums produce so much negativity, shouldn't you just stop accepting this albums on your level of moral consequence and cut your reviews out all together? How do most of your reviewers obtain their albums, for that matter? Do you keep close enough tabs so that if one of your esteemed reviewers pirates an album to review it, that it never sees the light of day on this website? I mean, if you allowed a pirated album to be reviewed, you'd be harboring this theft that you so vehemently dislike. These questions are all really important, because you'd honestly be selling the good people short, especially those who you attack for being ignorant and simple minded, or whatever the fuck you said.

To recap, you can say all you want about how you feel about downloading albums. You may have never downloaded a song in your life, which I feel increasingly difficult to stomach, and if that is true, then I commend you for your resiliance. However, in no way do I think that you have the right to open your holier-than-thou mouth to cut someone down for discussing how they feel. If you learned how to humble yourself, then maybe you wouldn't reply in such a spiteful and sarcastic way, but since that's the only way you get through to people, this is the way that people must get through to you.

I've downloaded albums. I'll continue to do so, because I, just like these artists, work for my money. I, just like most of these artists, would find it completely wasteful to purchase every song, album, and catalog of everything they've heard, because it's not practical. It's stupid! You aren't thinking globally. Here's an example. Inkwell. Never heard of them, until I read that their album was coming out a couple of months ago in a magazine. I downloaded their first full length album, entitled "Chaos Reveals Rhyme". Upon listening to it, I decided that I loved it. From there, I did some research on the band, and realized that they were once part of a band called My Hotel Year. From there, I downloaded an album of their's. Loved it. Then, I purchased both Inkwell's new record, "These Stars Are Monsters", two My Hotel Year records, and purchased tickets to go see Inkwell play with This Day And Age and Rory. I have since purchased Inkwell's debut CD.

For the record, I know that everyone doesn't have the same ideas as me, but try to follow me here.

Because, out of curiosity, I downloaded a record from a band, I have, monetarily, impacted multiple bands and people. I'm sure that the members of Inkwell are still receiving royalties for their written work in the old band, so that's justified. Furthermore, I purchased Inkwell's new record on the premise that it would be as good as their first. Money directly to the band and their label, which by second-hand, aids in the payment of the other bands on 111 records to record their records, purchase merchandise, and tour. That worked full circle. Also, by purchasing tickets to this upcoming show, not only have I added one more person to a list that will get them a certain guarantee, I have indirectly put money in the pockets of This Day & Age and whoever else is playing that show. Some of the ticket money goes to the venue, I'm sure, which pays for their upkeep, so they can showcase talent such as this on a proficient enough level, so that more kids can come out to shows.

Had I had never downloaded the record, I wouldn't have poured money into it, and the new record - well, it would've sat on a shelf, completely unnoticed by me.

In closing, you can babble about how you've "researched" the facts, and you can have your moments of glory belittling people, but if you looked outside the box, or even in a mirror for that matter, you'd realize that your arguments in regards to piracy, downloading, and sharing of music can be questioned by your own actions in running this website. Your absolute exclusives, or whatever you call them, have showcased full albums! Even if the band requested that you put those full albums on your website, that doesn't fall into your social code you'd set in previous posts.

I've seen a much more misguided and misinformed poster on this website; he fucking owns it.

[BruisedxBroken]

Dear Jason Tate,

How do you, then, justify all of the pre-releases you get? Do you go out and buy each album that is sent to you afterwards? Do you personally give back each of these copies after you've completed whatever tasks you've completed with them? Are you certain that the integrity of these records that are sent to you are kept safe and are not put in a compromising situation in which they could be taken from you? Do you feel you have a moral responsibility in this situation?

You refer to the act of downloading music as stealing, in the same light, isn't rewriting poetry that another wrote stealing? Is transcribing the script of a television show stealing? Is taping a television show stealing? Is performing a broadway show on a high school stage stealing? Isn't quoting a lyric from a song stealing? Isn't reproducing a summary of a chapter in a book stealing? Hell, isn't writing a review of a record stealing?

I mean, think about it. Writing a CD review has to be a theft issue! I can probably say that in most, if not a majority of the albums you receive are given to you for free. The first issue, what makes you think that you're priviledged to get these works of art for free? I mean, aren't you cheating yourselves by accepting albums that don't have the proper artwork, liner notes, disc art, and the like? Aren't you cheating your readers by reviewing a product that is potentially unmastered and unfinished? Furthermore, because you have a website that is considered to be professional, that automatically means that you guys are free of any speculation as to what happens to the albums after they are finished? Do you force your reviewers to destroy the albums after they've been reviewed? Do your force your reviewers to purchase the albums they've reviewed afterwards? Yeah, I do realize that these artists or labels send them to you for free, but because of your stance on how leaked albums produce so much negativity, shouldn't you just stop accepting this albums on your level of moral consequence and cut your reviews out all together? How do most of your reviewers obtain their albums, for that matter? Do you keep close enough tabs so that if one of your esteemed reviewers pirates an album to review it, that it never sees the light of day on this website? I mean, if you allowed a pirated album to be reviewed, you'd be harboring this theft that you so vehemently dislike. These questions are all really important, because you'd honestly be selling the good people short, especially those who you attack for being ignorant and simple minded, or whatever the fuck you said.

To recap, you can say all you want about how you feel about downloading albums. You may have never downloaded a song in your life, which I feel increasingly difficult to stomach, and if that is true, then I commend you for your resiliance. However, in no way do I think that you have the right to open your holier-than-thou mouth to cut someone down for discussing how they feel. If you learned how to humble yourself, then maybe you wouldn't reply in such a spiteful and sarcastic way, but since that's the only way you get through to people, this is the way that people must get through to you.

I've downloaded albums. I'll continue to do so, because I, just like these artists, work for my money. I, just like most of these artists, would find it completely wasteful to purchase every song, album, and catalog of everything they've heard, because it's not practical. It's stupid! You aren't thinking globally. Here's an example. Inkwell. Never heard of them, until I read that their album was coming out a couple of months ago in a magazine. I downloaded their first full length album, entitled "Chaos Reveals Rhyme". Upon listening to it, I decided that I loved it. From there, I did some research on the band, and realized that they were once part of a band called My Hotel Year. From there, I downloaded an album of their's. Loved it. Then, I purchased both Inkwell's new record, "These Stars Are Monsters", two My Hotel Year records, and purchased tickets to go see Inkwell play with This Day And Age and Rory. I have since purchased Inkwell's debut CD.

For the record, I know that everyone doesn't have the same ideas as me, but try to follow me here.

Because, out of curiosity, I downloaded a record from a band, I have, monetarily, impacted multiple bands and people. I'm sure that the members of Inkwell are still receiving royalties for their written work in the old band, so that's justified. Furthermore, I purchased Inkwell's new record on the premise that it would be as good as their first. Money directly to the band and their label, which by second-hand, aids in the payment of the other bands on 111 records to record their records, purchase merchandise, and tour. That worked full circle. Also, by purchasing tickets to this upcoming show, not only have I added one more person to a list that will get them a certain guarantee, I have indirectly put money in the pockets of This Day & Age and whoever else is playing that show. Some of the ticket money goes to the venue, I'm sure, which pays for their upkeep, so they can showcase talent such as this on a proficient enough level, so that more kids can come out to shows.

Had I had never downloaded the record, I wouldn't have poured money into it, and the new record - well, it would've sat on a shelf, completely unnoticed by me.

In closing, you can babble about how you've "researched" the facts, and you can have your moments of glory belittling people, but if you looked outside the box, or even in a mirror for that matter, you'd realize that your arguments in regards to piracy, downloading, and sharing of music can be questioned by your own actions in running this website. Your absolute exclusives, or whatever you call them, have showcased full albums! Even if the band requested that you put those full albums on your website, that doesn't fall into your social code you'd set in previous posts.

I've seen a much more misguided and misinformed poster on this website; he fucking owns it.

I have no respect for anyone here, but you may have just changed that...

[imirish06]

I do have the album, but I will buy it. These guys are way too humble and nice to dick over like that.

[catchmealone]

Dear Jason Tate,

How do you, then, justify all of the pre-releases you get? Do you go out and buy each album that is sent to you afterwards? Do you personally give back each of these copies after you've completed whatever tasks you've completed with them? Are you certain that the integrity of these records that are sent to you are kept safe and are not put in a compromising situation in which they could be taken from you? Do you feel you have a moral responsibility in this situation?

You refer to the act of downloading music as stealing, in the same light, isn't rewriting poetry that another wrote stealing? Is transcribing the script of a television show stealing? Is taping a television show stealing? Is performing a broadway show on a high school stage stealing? Isn't quoting a lyric from a song stealing? Isn't reproducing a summary of a chapter in a book stealing? Hell, isn't writing a review of a record stealing?

I mean, think about it. Writing a CD review has to be a theft issue! I can probably say that in most, if not a majority of the albums you receive are given to you for free. The first issue, what makes you think that you're priviledged to get these works of art for free? I mean, aren't you cheating yourselves by accepting albums that don't have the proper artwork, liner notes, disc art, and the like? Aren't you cheating your readers by reviewing a product that is potentially unmastered and unfinished? Furthermore, because you have a website that is considered to be professional, that automatically means that you guys are free of any speculation as to what happens to the albums after they are finished? Do you force your reviewers to destroy the albums after they've been reviewed? Do your force your reviewers to purchase the albums they've reviewed afterwards? Yeah, I do realize that these artists or labels send them to you for free, but because of your stance on how leaked albums produce so much negativity, shouldn't you just stop accepting this albums on your level of moral consequence and cut your reviews out all together? How do most of your reviewers obtain their albums, for that matter? Do you keep close enough tabs so that if one of your esteemed reviewers pirates an album to review it, that it never sees the light of day on this website? I mean, if you allowed a pirated album to be reviewed, you'd be harboring this theft that you so vehemently dislike. These questions are all really important, because you'd honestly be selling the good people short, especially those who you attack for being ignorant and simple minded, or whatever the fuck you said.

To recap, you can say all you want about how you feel about downloading albums. You may have never downloaded a song in your life, which I feel increasingly difficult to stomach, and if that is true, then I commend you for your resiliance. However, in no way do I think that you have the right to open your holier-than-thou mouth to cut someone down for discussing how they feel. If you learned how to humble yourself, then maybe you wouldn't reply in such a spiteful and sarcastic way, but since that's the only way you get through to people, this is the way that people must get through to you.

I've downloaded albums. I'll continue to do so, because I, just like these artists, work for my money. I, just like most of these artists, would find it completely wasteful to purchase every song, album, and catalog of everything they've heard, because it's not practical. It's stupid! You aren't thinking globally. Here's an example. Inkwell. Never heard of them, until I read that their album was coming out a couple of months ago in a magazine. I downloaded their first full length album, entitled "Chaos Reveals Rhyme". Upon listening to it, I decided that I loved it. From there, I did some research on the band, and realized that they were once part of a band called My Hotel Year. From there, I downloaded an album of their's. Loved it. Then, I purchased both Inkwell's new record, "These Stars Are Monsters", two My Hotel Year records, and purchased tickets to go see Inkwell play with This Day And Age and Rory. I have since purchased Inkwell's debut CD.

For the record, I know that everyone doesn't have the same ideas as me, but try to follow me here.

Because, out of curiosity, I downloaded a record from a band, I have, monetarily, impacted multiple bands and people. I'm sure that the members of Inkwell are still receiving royalties for their written work in the old band, so that's justified. Furthermore, I purchased Inkwell's new record on the premise that it would be as good as their first. Money directly to the band and their label, which by second-hand, aids in the payment of the other bands on 111 records to record their records, purchase merchandise, and tour. That worked full circle. Also, by purchasing tickets to this upcoming show, not only have I added one more person to a list that will get them a certain guarantee, I have indirectly put money in the pockets of This Day & Age and whoever else is playing that show. Some of the ticket money goes to the venue, I'm sure, which pays for their upkeep, so they can showcase talent such as this on a proficient enough level, so that more kids can come out to shows.

Had I had never downloaded the record, I wouldn't have poured money into it, and the new record - well, it would've sat on a shelf, completely unnoticed by me.

In closing, you can babble about how you've "researched" the facts, and you can have your moments of glory belittling people, but if you looked outside the box, or even in a mirror for that matter, you'd realize that your arguments in regards to piracy, downloading, and sharing of music can be questioned by your own actions in running this website. Your absolute exclusives, or whatever you call them, have showcased full albums! Even if the band requested that you put those full albums on your website, that doesn't fall into your social code you'd set in previous posts.

I've seen a much more misguided and misinformed poster on this website; he fucking owns it.

I don't agree at all. How can you say that Jason is hypocritical(which is essentially what you are saying) when the record labels send him the cd's solely for the purpose of reviewing. Even if he DOESN'T go out and buy the cd he was sent for free, his review affects the opinion of tons of people who read it, which prompts them to in turn check the band out. So by sending Jason and ap.net a free copy, whatever label has given themselves alot of cheap cheap promotion.

As for your incident with My Hotel Year, etc...very nice. I'm sure everyone is glad you helped out so many people, honestly. Only problem is, as Jason stated before, you aren't the rule, you are the exception. I'll be the first to admit, I download alot of music, and I'm a little behind on buying the ones I truely enjoy. But I make a point to do so as much as I can. I'm somewhere in the middle: I Don't always buy the albums, but I don't solely download. I spend alot on music, more than I should normally. But there are alot of people out there who don't buy albums at all, which is just wrong.
This part of your arguement is the only part I agreed with.
The part where you are calling Jason out, I think is out of line and uncalled for. And I don't exactly see eye to eye with Jason on that matter, but he has his opinion and I have mine.

[x togepi x]

I'd like to see both sides actually citing sources. I can see how he'd be the rule or the exception, but right now it looks like two people just talking out of their asses.

I say this mainly because I know way more people that download before they buy than people who never buy cds ever. Especially when we're talking about leaks, where it takes a little work to find the thing. If you're going to look for it, you're probably interested in music enough to have a decent cd collection on the side. Of course, I can admit that maybe myfriends and I are the exception to the rule and there are hundreds of thousands of more people who just download all the time...i'd just like to see some proof of that because the only things i've ever seen saying that downloading hurts artists come from the record labels who have a vested interest in keeping downloading illegal and don't actually explain how these artists are hurt.

but even if i'm the exception, why is what I'm doing bad if it actually means more sales in the end? I'll get right behind anyone who says that people shouldn't just download music for free when they can afford to do otherwise. i just don't see a point in criticizing your own fans for caring enough about your music to seek it out early, especially when a lot of them are going to buy the cd when it comes out anyway.

i mean, i wouldn't give a shit about this new mewithoutyou cd except all the people here hyping it up because of the leak making me want to check it out when I get some extra cash.

[logantogovcentr]

I don't agree at all. How can you say that Jason is hypocritical(which is essentially what you are saying) when the record labels send him the cd's solely for the purpose of reviewing. Even if he DOESN'T go out and buy the cd he was sent for free, his review affects the opinion of tons of people who read it, which prompts them to in turn check the band out. So by sending Jason and ap.net a free copy, whatever label has given themselves alot of cheap cheap promotion.

As for your incident with My Hotel Year, etc...very nice. I'm sure everyone is glad you helped out so many people, honestly. Only problem is, as Jason stated before, you aren't the rule, you are the exception. I'll be the first to admit, I download alot of music, and I'm a little behind on buying the ones I truely enjoy. But I make a point to do so as much as I can. I'm somewhere in the middle: I Don't always buy the albums, but I don't solely download. I spend alot on music, more than I should normally. But there are alot of people out there who don't buy albums at all, which is just wrong.
This part of your arguement is the only part I agreed with.
The part where you are calling Jason out, I think is out of line and uncalled for. And I don't exactly see eye to eye with Jason on that matter, but he has his opinion and I have mine.

I think I can say completely wholeheartedly that Jason Tate is hypocritical. Maybe I'm misconstruing his inflection, but it seems like he's playing the "i'm-completely-innocent-therefore-i-have-the-right-to-be-a-dick" hand. While that hand may seem to be a royal flush, it's only a fucking six high. I don't truly believe that the staff is handed every record they review, and the fact that they review a record before it hits the shelves is the biggest issue. Honestly, I don't buy it, and I don't think anyone on this board should really be giving a seminar on the importance of purchasing music, because I'd guarantee that a higher percentage of people here download most of their music, rather than buying it. Call it an invald generalization if you will, but I'd vouch for the premise that there's a lot of piracy floating about.

Yeah, I'm sure his review has an affect on who buys the CD, but a good deal of people will read a review and then DOWNLOAD the record. My argument wasn't really that he has the ability to influence, it's that I'm not sure of the methods used to obtain these titles, and I question the integrity of these discs once they've been reviewed. I also think that the argument that he posed directly goes against the idea of even receiving a "pre'd" album. Regardless of the intent of the record sent to him, it still seems to go against his ideals!

For the record, I probably came off self-righteous with the whole My Hotel Year/Inkwell bit, and most likely with the entire little diatribe I went off on. I could try to tell you all that I'm not, but that wouldn't change your view on me, and personally, it's a message board, so I could care less if you hate me. I thank you for being civil in your argument, and not a piece of shit who has their tongue so far up Tate's ass that he can taste his breakfast from a couple of weeks ago.

[colorlesscliche]

I think I can say completely wholeheartedly that Jason Tate is hypocritical. Maybe I'm misconstruing his inflection, but it seems like he's playing the "i'm-completely-innocent-therefore-i-have-the-right-to-be-a-dick" hand. While that hand may seem to be a royal flush, it's only a fucking six high. I don't truly believe that the staff is handed every record they review, and the fact that they review a record before it hits the shelves is the biggest issue. Honestly, I don't buy it, and I don't think anyone on this board should really be giving a seminar on the importance of purchasing music, because I'd guarantee that a higher percentage of people here download most of their music, rather than buying it. Call it an invald generalization if you will, but I'd vouch for the premise that there's a lot of piracy floating about.

Yeah, I'm sure his review has an affect on who buys the CD, but a good deal of people will read a review and then DOWNLOAD the record. My argument wasn't really that he has the ability to influence, it's that I'm not sure of the methods used to obtain these titles, and I question the integrity of these discs once they've been reviewed. I also think that the argument that he posed directly goes against the idea of even receiving a "pre'd" album. Regardless of the intent of the record sent to him, it still seems to go against his ideals!

For the record, I probably came off self-righteous with the whole My Hotel Year/Inkwell bit, and most likely with the entire little diatribe I went off on. I could try to tell you all that I'm not, but that wouldn't change your view on me, and personally, it's a message board, so I could care less if you hate me. I thank you for being civil in your argument, and not a piece of shit who has their tongue so far up Tate's ass that he can taste his breakfast from a couple of weeks ago.


With that being said, I downloaded this album, and tons of others, to review it to all my friends through word-of-mouth.


I like your thinking, boy.

[I am all talk]

I admit that I checked out brother, sister a few weeks ago and while I do feel guilty, my shame is disregardable because of the fact I never would have bought the cd or given it the time of day and now it is easily in my top 5. I cannot wait to get my hands on the actual copy but I'm also pleased with myself for finding some appreciation for a band I never enjoyed before.

[FASSWcore]

boo fucken hoo.

[gregxthor]

this is so true, and i agree completely withhim. but now that everyone is leaking shit its so hard.

for example, the mars volta. what an amazing album, however. i had it like 2 months before it came out, buti still boughtr the cd. i make sure that i actualyl buy the albums that i like because the artwork, like ricky said and the lyrics, makes it a lot cooler. you may even be surprised that some of the songs are changed. and i find that if u are listeneing to the unmastered versiosn they could be different.

for example, the new saosin and newer thursday (ACBTLD) i was so used to the demos that once i heard the album versions i was kind of dissapointed. but i guess its just one of those things.

i actually have Brother Sister on my computer but have yet to listen to it. perhaps i'll wait until its released to buy it.

NEW SAOSIN COMES OUT ON TUESDAY!!!!!!!

[emiliodelgado]

it's a great cd, i downloaded the leak, but i also bought the preorder.

[Chris Fallon]

This statement makes a lot of sense and I agree with it completely. There is nothing better than waiting a long time for your favorite band to release a CD, then going down to buy it the day it comes out and listening to it for the very first time (unless it's a huge disappointment, obviously). I can say right now, that I have only heard what mewithoutYou has allowed me to hear on their myspace and pv.com pages, and when it comes out Tuesday, I'll listen to it in its entirity for the first time. Honestly, I don't really understand how you couldn't agree or at least understand where this band is coming from. It makes absolute sense and is right.

[crowl-E]

Dear Jason Tate,

How do you, then, justify all of the pre-releases you get? Do you go out and buy each album that is sent to you afterwards? Do you personally give back each of these copies after you've completed whatever tasks you've completed with them? Are you certain that the integrity of these records that are sent to you are kept safe and are not put in a compromising situation in which they could be taken from you? Do you feel you have a moral responsibility in this situation?

You refer to the act of downloading music as stealing, in the same light, isn't rewriting poetry that another wrote stealing? Is transcribing the script of a television show stealing? Is taping a television show stealing? Is performing a broadway show on a high school stage stealing? Isn't quoting a lyric from a song stealing? Isn't reproducing a summary of a chapter in a book stealing? Hell, isn't writing a review of a record stealing?

I mean, think about it. Writing a CD review has to be a theft issue! I can probably say that in most, if not a majority of the albums you receive are given to you for free. The first issue, what makes you think that you're priviledged to get these works of art for free? I mean, aren't you cheating yourselves by accepting albums that don't have the proper artwork, liner notes, disc art, and the like? Aren't you cheating your readers by reviewing a product that is potentially unmastered and unfinished? Furthermore, because you have a website that is considered to be professional, that automatically means that you guys are free of any speculation as to what happens to the albums after they are finished? Do you force your reviewers to destroy the albums after they've been reviewed? Do your force your reviewers to purchase the albums they've reviewed afterwards? Yeah, I do realize that these artists or labels send them to you for free, but because of your stance on how leaked albums produce so much negativity, shouldn't you just stop accepting this albums on your level of moral consequence and cut your reviews out all together? How do most of your reviewers obtain their albums, for that matter? Do you keep close enough tabs so that if one of your esteemed reviewers pirates an album to review it, that it never sees the light of day on this website? I mean, if you allowed a pirated album to be reviewed, you'd be harboring this theft that you so vehemently dislike. These questions are all really important, because you'd honestly be selling the good people short, especially those who you attack for being ignorant and simple minded, or whatever the fuck you said.

To recap, you can say all you want about how you feel about downloading albums. You may have never downloaded a song in your life, which I feel increasingly difficult to stomach, and if that is true, then I commend you for your resiliance. However, in no way do I think that you have the right to open your holier-than-thou mouth to cut someone down for discussing how they feel. If you learned how to humble yourself, then maybe you wouldn't reply in such a spiteful and sarcastic way, but since that's the only way you get through to people, this is the way that people must get through to you.

I've downloaded albums. I'll continue to do so, because I, just like these artists, work for my money. I, just like most of these artists, would find it completely wasteful to purchase every song, album, and catalog of everything they've heard, because it's not practical. It's stupid! You aren't thinking globally. Here's an example. Inkwell. Never heard of them, until I read that their album was coming out a couple of months ago in a magazine. I downloaded their first full length album, entitled "Chaos Reveals Rhyme". Upon listening to it, I decided that I loved it. From there, I did some research on the band, and realized that they were once part of a band called My Hotel Year. From there, I downloaded an album of their's. Loved it. Then, I purchased both Inkwell's new record, "These Stars Are Monsters", two My Hotel Year records, and purchased tickets to go see Inkwell play with This Day And Age and Rory. I have since purchased Inkwell's debut CD.

For the record, I know that everyone doesn't have the same ideas as me, but try to follow me here.

Because, out of curiosity, I downloaded a record from a band, I have, monetarily, impacted multiple bands and people. I'm sure that the members of Inkwell are still receiving royalties for their written work in the old band, so that's justified. Furthermore, I purchased Inkwell's new record on the premise that it would be as good as their first. Money directly to the band and their label, which by second-hand, aids in the payment of the other bands on 111 records to record their records, purchase merchandise, and tour. That worked full circle. Also, by purchasing tickets to this upcoming show, not only have I added one more person to a list that will get them a certain guarantee, I have indirectly put money in the pockets of This Day & Age and whoever else is playing that show. Some of the ticket money goes to the venue, I'm sure, which pays for their upkeep, so they can showcase talent such as this on a proficient enough level, so that more kids can come out to shows.

Had I had never downloaded the record, I wouldn't have poured money into it, and the new record - well, it would've sat on a shelf, completely unnoticed by me.

In closing, you can babble about how you've "researched" the facts, and you can have your moments of glory belittling people, but if you looked outside the box, or even in a mirror for that matter, you'd realize that your arguments in regards to piracy, downloading, and sharing of music can be questioned by your own actions in running this website. Your absolute exclusives, or whatever you call them, have showcased full albums! Even if the band requested that you put those full albums on your website, that doesn't fall into your social code you'd set in previous posts.

I've seen a much more misguided and misinformed poster on this website; he fucking owns it.

pwned. if there were still scene points on here, you woulda earned a lot my friend.

[Fuce]

Kid with the Brand New song title as your name (clever and original, incidentally), your logic kind of reminds me of a third-grader's view of the world. Everything is black or white. I don't have my head up Tate's ass, but that doesn't mean you're not a dumbass. Your points are weak, as well as few are far between. Which is sad, because you appear to have wasted a considerable amount of time writing your scathing condemnation of a webzine.

If the label sends you the cd in order to review it, that constitutes permission. Which is basically what you are purchasing when you go to Best Buy and pick up the cd. Permission to listen to it, along with all the fancy paper thats on the inside of the cd cover. Jason isn't a saint by any means, but your logic confounds me. If mewithoutYou approached you on the street, put a copy of the cd in your hands, and begged you to listen to it and tell all of your friends, the way you see it, that would be stealing, right? After all, you didn't pay for it. But you got permission, champ, which is all that matters.

Please take your stupidity someplace else. I can tell you think you're the most intelligent piece of shit to ever fall out of God's ass, but spare the rest of us and go lecture your little sister or something.

[crowl-E]

but it seems like he's playing the "i'm-completely-innocent-therefore-i-have-the-right-to-be-a-dick" hand.

you do realize that with every argument and post and point made by jason on his site, that is EXACTLY what he is doing. he talks out of his ass more than Ace Ventura (i think only some people will get that one).

[The Coalition]

Everyones rebuttal to downloading is still... "I buy all the CD's I like." If you are gonna be using buying the CD as an excuse you sure as hell better be buying every CD you download, and even then it's still wrong.

The comparisons made by the person i will refer to as "the blue line" are so ridiculous I'm confused how anyone could take his comments seriously. Downloading music is not like any of those things... but I can give you a few examples that are like stealing music; walking into a mall and stealing a pair of jeans, going to the grocery store and pushing your cart out the front door and to your car instead of going through checkout, eating at Denny's then sneaking out while the waitress is on the other side of the restaurant, sneaking in the back door at a movie theater, going to 7-11 and shoving candy down your pants.

Stealing, is stealing, is STEALING! Quit trying to make yourself seem better than someone who can't afford designer jeans, but thinks they need to have them to fit in, so they steal them. You are doing the exact same thing. Even if later you realise that is your favourite pair of jeans and buy 17 pairs later in life, it doesn't make it right. Quit compromising your morals people, that is if you have them. If you think stealing is okay, and admit that you steal music... at least you are being honest.

The only way this will ever change is once bands start standing up for their art.

[ilovebsb]

i've never onced listened to this band ever. i just wana hear the song they did with jeremy enigk :)

[takingbackrufio]

I'm buying this for-fucking-sure the day it is released, and if I get it stolen from me the second that I walk out of the door to the store, I'll walk right back in and buy it again. Repeat as necessary.

And because of this, as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter if I've downloaded it or not.

[TxRepresent]

Dear Jason Tate,

How do you, then, justify all of the pre-releases you get? Do you go out and buy each album that is sent to you afterwards? Do you personally give back each of these copies after you've completed whatever tasks you've completed with them? Are you certain that the integrity of these records that are sent to you are kept safe and are not put in a compromising situation in which they could be taken from you? Do you feel you have a moral responsibility in this situation?

You refer to the act of downloading music as stealing, in the same light, isn't rewriting poetry that another wrote stealing? Is transcribing the script of a television show stealing? Is taping a television show stealing? Is performing a broadway show on a high school stage stealing? Isn't quoting a lyric from a song stealing? Isn't reproducing a summary of a chapter in a book stealing? Hell, isn't writing a review of a record stealing?

I mean, think about it. Writing a CD review has to be a theft issue! I can probably say that in most, if not a majority of the albums you receive are given to you for free. The first issue, what makes you think that you're priviledged to get these works of art for free? I mean, aren't you cheating yourselves by accepting albums that don't have the proper artwork, liner notes, disc art, and the like? Aren't you cheating your readers by reviewing a product that is potentially unmastered and unfinished? Furthermore, because you have a website that is considered to be professional, that automatically means that you guys are free of any speculation as to what happens to the albums after they are finished? Do you force your reviewers to destroy the albums after they've been reviewed? Do your force your reviewers to purchase the albums they've reviewed afterwards? Yeah, I do realize that these artists or labels send them to you for free, but because of your stance on how leaked albums produce so much negativity, shouldn't you just stop accepting this albums on your level of moral consequence and cut your reviews out all together? How do most of your reviewers obtain their albums, for that matter? Do you keep close enough tabs so that if one of your esteemed reviewers pirates an album to review it, that it never sees the light of day on this website? I mean, if you allowed a pirated album to be reviewed, you'd be harboring this theft that you so vehemently dislike. These questions are all really important, because you'd honestly be selling the good people short, especially those who you attack for being ignorant and simple minded, or whatever the fuck you said.

To recap, you can say all you want about how you feel about downloading albums. You may have never downloaded a song in your life, which I feel increasingly difficult to stomach, and if that is true, then I commend you for your resiliance. However, in no way do I think that you have the right to open your holier-than-thou mouth to cut someone down for discussing how they feel. If you learned how to humble yourself, then maybe you wouldn't reply in such a spiteful and sarcastic way, but since that's the only way you get through to people, this is the way that people must get through to you.

I've downloaded albums. I'll continue to do so, because I, just like these artists, work for my money. I, just like most of these artists, would find it completely wasteful to purchase every song, album, and catalog of everything they've heard, because it's not practical. It's stupid! You aren't thinking globally. Here's an example. Inkwell. Never heard of them, until I read that their album was coming out a couple of months ago in a magazine. I downloaded their first full length album, entitled "Chaos Reveals Rhyme". Upon listening to it, I decided that I loved it. From there, I did some research on the band, and realized that they were once part of a band called My Hotel Year. From there, I downloaded an album of their's. Loved it. Then, I purchased both Inkwell's new record, "These Stars Are Monsters", two My Hotel Year records, and purchased tickets to go see Inkwell play with This Day And Age and Rory. I have since purchased Inkwell's debut CD.

For the record, I know that everyone doesn't have the same ideas as me, but try to follow me here.

Because, out of curiosity, I downloaded a record from a band, I have, monetarily, impacted multiple bands and people. I'm sure that the members of Inkwell are still receiving royalties for their written work in the old band, so that's justified. Furthermore, I purchased Inkwell's new record on the premise that it would be as good as their first. Money directly to the band and their label, which by second-hand, aids in the payment of the other bands on 111 records to record their records, purchase merchandise, and tour. That worked full circle. Also, by purchasing tickets to this upcoming show, not only have I added one more person to a list that will get them a certain guarantee, I have indirectly put money in the pockets of This Day & Age and whoever else is playing that show. Some of the ticket money goes to the venue, I'm sure, which pays for their upkeep, so they can showcase talent such as this on a proficient enough level, so that more kids can come out to shows.

Had I had never downloaded the record, I wouldn't have poured money into it, and the new record - well, it would've sat on a shelf, completely unnoticed by me.

In closing, you can babble about how you've "researched" the facts, and you can have your moments of glory belittling people, but if you looked outside the box, or even in a mirror for that matter, you'd realize that your arguments in regards to piracy, downloading, and sharing of music can be questioned by your own actions in running this website. Your absolute exclusives, or whatever you call them, have showcased full albums! Even if the band requested that you put those full albums on your website, that doesn't fall into your social code you'd set in previous posts.

I've seen a much more misguided and misinformed poster on this website; he fucking owns it.

Jason tate just got pwnt.

[catchmealone]

Jason tate just got pwnt.
not really, his points were kinda weak and didn't make sense.

[diehtc0ke]

Everyones rebuttal to downloading is still... "I buy all the CD's I like." If you are gonna be using buying the CD as an excuse you sure as hell better be buying every CD you download, and even then it's still wrong.

The comparisons made by the person i will refer to as "the blue line" are so ridiculous I'm confused how anyone could take his comments seriously. Downloading music is not like any of those things... but I can give you a few examples that are like stealing music; walking into a mall and stealing a pair of jeans, going to the grocery store and pushing your cart out the front door and to your car instead of going through checkout, eating at Denny's then sneaking out while the waitress is on the other side of the restaurant, sneaking in the back door at a movie theater, going to 7-11 and shoving candy down your pants.

Stealing, is stealing, is STEALING! Quit trying to make yourself seem better than someone who can't afford designer jeans, but thinks they need to have them to fit in, so they steal them. You are doing the exact same thing. Even if later you realise that is your favourite pair of jeans and buy 17 pairs later in life, it doesn't make it right. Quit compromising your morals people, that is if you have them. If you think stealing is okay, and admit that you steal music... at least you are being honest.

The only way this will ever change is once bands start standing up for their art.
No one's being prosecuted for stealing. They're being prosecuted for copyright infringement.
If you're going to side with the RIAA (which you're doing whether you realize it or not), use their terminology.

[takingbackrufio]

not really, his points were kinda weak and didn't make sense.
His points were stronger and made more sense than your reply to it.

Not saying I agree with it - for the sake of the argument that letter did good for it's side. I anticipate a well thought out reply to this, from Jason or not, and hope it is a good counter. I'm partial to both sides, so I won't try.

[Shatter_Glass]

Hmmmmmmm makes ya think