Internet Kill switch proposal

[Manicapathy]

Saw this in the tech round up
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-20007418-38.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20

Thoughts? This won't pass...will it?

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

Saw this in the tech round up
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-20007418-38.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20

Thoughts? This won't pass...will it?



Oh God, I hope this doesn't go through. I can't live without Farmville.

[Manicapathy]

Oh God, I hope this doesn't go through. I can't live without Farmville.
Too much e-manure! He's making an e-bomb! He's going to blow up whitehouse.gov!

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

Back to topic though, I don't think a president should have the authority to shut off the internet. I don't know what possible threats would occur. Other countries which restrict access to certain websites is a form of censorship.

[xapplexpiex]

If it will stop cyber threats to the country, and will only target certain portions or the internet, then sure...why not?

[Max_123]

:-|

[the sky below]

a) stupidest idea, possibly, in the short span of the technological age

b) almost every headline i've seen about this mentions "Obama" in the headline (aside from this one) -- which, to be honest, I think is dumb, because automatically it will cause thousands of people to assume that the whole thing is Obama's idea.... which it isn't in the slightest, but not many will probably read to graf 4 or 5 in the articles, or just glaze over it entirely if they do. In short, I can already hear a lot of people saying "Did you hear what Obama wants to do with the Internet?"

anyways, yeah. totally stupid.

[DevinDomino]

1984 anyone?!

[Manicapathy]

If it will stop cyber threats to the country, and will only target certain portions or the internet, then sure...why not?

The potential for abuse is why not. Couple years down the line, whose to say that someone won't start shutting down stuff that belittles the government or something like that. People will get up in arms sure, but if it passes, then such a move would be completely in their ability to make.

[Machu505]

That's a horrible idea.

[Max_123]

a) stupidest idea, possibly, in the short span of the technological age

b) almost every headline i've seen about this mentions "Obama" in the headline (aside from this one) -- which, to be honest, I think is dumb, because automatically it will cause thousands of people to assume that the whole thing is Obama's idea.... which it isn't in the slightest, but not many will probably read to graf 4 or 5 in the articles, or just glaze over it entirely if they do. In short, I can already hear a lot of people saying "Did you hear what Obama wants to do with the Internet?"

anyways, yeah. totally stupid.
I can definitely see that, I hate people who just read headlines to news articles about our president to get their news and don't even bother to actually do some research on it, they just bash him without knowing anything. Also, I have a few friends who just base their opinions of what they hear their parents say or other people say and it gets really frustrating

[Manicapathy]

a) stupidest idea, possibly, in the short span of the technological age

b) almost every headline i've seen about this mentions "Obama" in the headline (aside from this one) -- which, to be honest, I think is dumb, because automatically it will cause thousands of people to assume that the whole thing is Obama's idea.... which it isn't in the slightest, but not many will probably read to graf 4 or 5 in the articles, or just glaze over it entirely if they do. In short, I can already hear a lot of people saying "Did you hear what Obama wants to do with the Internet?"

anyways, yeah. totally stupid.

That ticks me off, but if anything, it will incite all the die hard republicans to vote against it with even more gusto, so....yea. That's kind of a good thing.

1984 anyone?!

Pretty much what I thought upon reading that.

[xapplexpiex]

The potential for abuse is why not. Couple years down the line, whose to say that someone won't start shutting down stuff that belittles the government or something like that. People will get up in arms sure, but if it passes, then such a move would be completely in their ability to make.
Ah, good point.

[sammyboy516]

that's socialism. typical answer, i know, but it's taking away a freedom.

[Sean Rizzo]

That ticks me off, but if anything, it will incite all the die hard republicans to vote against it with even more gusto, so....yea. That's kind of a good thing.
I'm pretty sure we can all agree this is an egregious abuse of power. Obliterates free speech.

[Machu505]

that's socialism. typical answer, i know, but it's taking away a freedom.
A bit of a leap there, buddy.

[the seventeenth]

But if this senator-proposed bill passes, and the cnet news portion of the internet is shut down, how will I read about all of the other dumb-ass bills that our idiot government is trying to pass inorder to control all aspects of their citizeans lives?

[Manicapathy]

I'm pretty sure we can all agree this is an egregious abuse of power. Obliterates free speech.

Except the folks that support Lieberman and the expansion of homeland security and such.

So, the sane people dislike it, yea.

[sammyboy516]

A bit of a leap there, buddy.

not really. it would extend government control and decrease the amount of freedom i have right now.

edit: also, look at what "prince of light" has been saying in this thread. hits the nail right on the head.

[Sean Rizzo]

Except the folks that support Lieberman and the expansion of homeland security and such.

So, the sane people dislike it, yea.
I mean the idea behind it is good, but it certainly isn't the government's job to be doing it. If companies want/don't want to risk their data, it should be left up to them to decide whether or not to shut their servers off. Besides, word of a sweeping virus or something would travel fast. People can react in time if they weren't the ones hit first.

[Manicapathy]

But if this senator-proposed bill passes, and the cnet news portion of the internet is shut down, how will I read about all of the other dumb-ass bills that our idiot government is trying to pass inorder to control all aspects of their citizeans lives?

Ask the Chinese how they polevault over the great firewall.

ZING!

[tkamB]

Someone took that new Die Hard movie too seriously.

[Manicapathy]

I mean the idea behind it is good, but it certainly isn't the government's job to be doing it. If companies want/don't want to risk their data, it should be left up to them to decide whether or not to shut their servers off.
Ding, we have a winner. Obama is supposed to be a supporter of the concept of net neutrality (if you don't know, google it), so I *Hope* he will intervene in here somewhere.

[Machu505]

not really. it would extend government control and decrease the amount of freedom i have right now.

edit: also, look at what "prince of light" has been saying in this thread. hits the nail right on the head.
That doesn't equate socialism though. Actual socialists don't seek to repress free speech, which is what this legislation would do.

[Sean Rizzo]

Ding, we have a winner. Obama is supposed to be a supporter of the concept of net neutrality (if you don't know, google it), so I *Hope* he will intervene in here somewhere.
bold for truth.

[sammyboy516]

That doesn't equate socialism though. Actual socialists don't seek to repress free speech, which is what this legislation would do.

socialism gives the government more power and the people less power. that's what this would do.

[The Summer Ends]

oh well i have enough porn downloaded to last me a while

[J.C.]

socialism gives the government more power and the people less power. that's what this would do.

You're thinking of fascism, asshat.

[whiterussian]

warning for following opinion: I read the article diagonally.


"Anyone failing to comply would be fined."
that doesn't sound very much like an emergency measure.

I agree with the idea in theory - sort of a nuclear option for cyber attacks, to be used (as in not used) with the same reserve as nukes.

[Machu505]

socialism gives the government more power and the people less power. that's what this would do.
Nah. Every self-respecting socialist is a civil libertarian.

[sammyboy516]

You're thinking of fascism, asshat.

unless you can have a discussion civilly, i'm not gonna have a discussion with you.

[Sean Rizzo]

warning for following opinion: I read the article diagonally.


"Anyone failing to comply would be fined."
that doesn't sound very much like an emergency measure.

I agree with the idea in theory - sort of a nuclear option for cyber attacks, to be used (as in not used) with the same reserve as nukes.
Whenever the government does anything, de jure almost NEVER equals de facto.

[J.C.]

unless you can have a discussion civilly, i'm not gonna have a discussion with you.

I'm not really interested in having a discussion with someone who doesn't know the difference between fascism and socialism, to be honest. I'll apologize for calling you out on your flaming display of asshattery if it will heal all wounds though.

[takenflight]

You're thinking of fascism, asshat.


Maybe u should try telling that to the people of Eastern Europe who were shot for not agreeing with socialism....asshat

[J.C.]

Maybe u should try telling that to the people of Eastern Europe who were shot for not agreeing with socialism....asshat

Shooting people for not agreeing with socialism isn't a tenet of socialism, Isaac Newton.

[Machu505]

Calling the Eastern European brand of authoritarianism (or you could just call it Stalinism, for short) socialism is laughable.

[takenflight]

Maybe u assholes don't realize that my family is from Eastern Europe

I don't need your fucking opinions when I know it first hand

[EvilZeppelin]

This Is Bullshit.

[Manicapathy]

You're thinking of fascism, asshat.

Maybe u should try telling that to the people of Eastern Europe who were shot for not agreeing with socialism....asshat

Shooting people for not agreeing with socialism isn't a tenet of socialism, Isaac Newton.

Ya see, this is the kind of intelligent conversation that is endangered by this bill.

[Theseventhson]

Lol, no matter how much the word socialism is thrown around, most people are still terribly uninformed as to what it is.

[takenflight]

Calling the Eastern European brand of authoritarianism (or you could just call it Stalinism, for short) socialism is laughable.

Seriously, grow some pubic hair....ur fucking 15

You have no clue what the fuck you are talking about

No society can survive on the idea that harder work would not equal more money than not working as hard

See the fall of the USSR, Poland's solidarity movement

Do you have illussions that a pure socialist agenda would work on a capitalist minded society? Do you have illussions that parties and politicians are not corrupt?

There are no saints in Washington


Unless you think everyone in this country is a walking Jesus Christ, socialism would nto work here & it would lead to a corrupt form of Communism.

[Theseventhson]

Maybe u assholes don't realize that my family is from Eastern Europe

I don't need your fucking opinions when I know it first hand

So? I'm Ukrainian. As a proud Ukrainian, I don't need your fucking opinion, asshat.

[ChaplainTappman]

socialism gives the government more power and the people less power. that's what this would do.

i dont think you quite understand what socialism is. you're thinking of something more similar to fascism or tyranny, not socialism

[apsterling]

that's socialism. typical answer, i know, but it's taking away a freedom.

No it's not! Socialism = Economic principal, it's authoritarian or fascist, depending on your view- it's not an economic thing. That's like saying that the freedom of speech is clearly capitalist. They're incongruent.

[Sean Rizzo]

Ya see, this is the kind of intelligent conversation that is endangered by this bill.
lol'd.

For srs though, everyone should quit throwing insults around in here. That's the reason why I never post in here much.

[Machu505]

Maybe u assholes don't realize that my family is from Eastern Europe

I don't need your fucking opinions when I know it first hand
Suck it up. People laud Reaganomics all the time and you don't see me crying about it, even though it financially devastated my family. The point is there's a definition for socialism, and the Eastern European dictatorships didn't fit it.

[Manicapathy]

Maybe u assholes don't realize that my family is from Eastern Europe

I don't need your fucking opinions when I know it first hand
You took a bullet for not agreeing with "socialist" ideals? Nice.

But seriously: would you take a bullet for your internet, though? Or do you mind blatant censorship in the name of national security?

[Theseventhson]

Seriously, grow some pubic hair....ur fucking 15

You have no clue what the fuck you are talking about

No society can survive on the idea that harder work would not equal more money than not working as hard

See the fall of the USSR, Poland's solidarity movement

Do you have illussions that a pure socialist agenda would work on a capitalist minded society? Do you have illussions that parties and politicians are not corrupt?

There are no saints in Washington


Unless you think everyone in this country is a walking Jesus Christ, socialism would nto work here & it would lead to a corrupt form of Communism.

I didn't read passed that bullshit first line. Yeah, he's 15, yeah, he's way fucking smarter than you.

[ChaplainTappman]

Maybe u assholes don't realize that my family is from Eastern Europe

I don't need your fucking opinions when I know it first hand

do us all a favor and realize that the soviet system was a perversion of a perversion of original socialist ideals. christ.

[Machu505]

lol'd.

For srs though, everyone should quit throwing insults around in here. That's the reason why I never post in here much.
I agree. I saw asshat in JC's post and could only dream of what was to come.

Also, I just got scolded about pubic hair in a post I won't care to post. Oh well.

[takenflight]

Ok pal...

I'll bet he is

I'll bet he is more well informed than I , a 7 year veteran of the health insurance industry to lend an educated, informed opinion on the health bill

I'll bet since my family actually lived in a socialist soceity, that him looking up socialism in a dictionary holds more water than my families 1st hand acoounts...

Right.

Who am I to tal;k about this stuff,lol...The kid has all the answers

[Sean Rizzo]

I agree. I saw ****** in JC's post and could only dream of what was to come.

Also, I just got scolded about pubic hair in a post I won't care to post. Oh well.
Pretty much.

and lolwut? Do I even want to know? hahaha.

[Theseventhson]

Ok pal...

I'll bet he is

I'll bet he is more well informed than I , a 7 year veteran of the health insurance industry to lend an educated, informed opinion on the health bill

I'll bet since my family actually lived in a socialist soceity, that him looking up socialism in a dictionary holds more water than my families 1st hand acoounts...

Right.

Who am I to tal;k about this stuff,lol...The kid has all the answers

http://www.absolutepunk.net/customprofilepics/profilepic705602_2.gif

Yeah, I'm going to trust one of these guys opinions :rolleyes:

[zion the lion]

Sure why not.

[Machu505]

I don't know any other way to explain this. A country that is nominally socialist does not mean that it is socialist in practice.

[J.C.]

Maybe u assholes don't realize that my family is from Eastern Europe

Good for them. It doesn't make you any less wrong.

I don't need your fucking opinions when I know it first hand

second hand*

[Manicapathy]

Sure why not.
So....you support this thing? What in god's name would make you think that this is a good idea?

[J.C.]

So....you support this thing? What in god's name would make you think that this is a good idea?

She's a contrarian, if no one's figured it out by now.

[sammyboy516]

I'm not really interested in having a discussion with someone who doesn't know the difference between fascism and socialism, to be honest. I'll apologize for calling you out on your flaming display of asshattery if it will heal all wounds though.

socialism always leads to fascism.

[J.C.]

socialism always leads to fascism.

I didn't realize socialism was a gateway drug.

[Manicapathy]

She's a contrarian, if no one's figured it out by now.

Whoops, forgot rule 1:

http://images.roflposters.com/images/rofl/myspace/1203295287367.jpg.%5Broflposters.co m%5D.myspace.jpg

[sammyboy516]

i dont think you quite understand what socialism is. you're thinking of something more similar to fascism or tyranny, not socialism

i understand socialism, and it leads to fascism.

[takenflight]

http://www.absolutepunk.net/customprofilepics/profilepic705602_2.gif

Yeah, I'm going to trust one of these guys opinions :rolleyes:

https://ociaccess.oci.wi.gov/ProducerInfo/GetPrdLoa.oci?prdId=0

Yeah, I know thing about health insurance....

Because I play in a pop-punk band, that negates all of my licensing & training....only on absolutepunk!

Besides , that pic is way out of date....go here if you want to see what we look like

www.myspace.com/takenflightmusic (http://www.myspace.com/takenflightmusic)

[sammyboy516]

Nah. Every self-respecting socialist is a civil libertarian.

is that sarcasm? that has to be sarcasm.

[Theseventhson]

https://ociaccess.oci.wi.gov/ProducerInfo/GetPrdLoa.oci?prdId=0

Yeah, I know thing about health insurance....

Because I play in a pop-punk band, that negates all of my licensing & training....only on absolutepunk!

Besides this is our new picture...Mike Boudreau doesnt play with us anymore

http://www.absolutepunk.net/<a href=

Hey, a broken link and a broken picture, thanks!

[Machu505]

is that sarcasm? that has to be sarcasm.
How is it sarcasm? Even the US Socialist Workers Party gives it as an official ideology.

[zion the lion]

Seriously, grow some pubic hair....ur fucking 15

Can I just say that I had pubic hair way way way way before 15. I'd halfway understand if you were saying that to him if he was 3 but 15...dont people grow hair like 9 years before that. It's a tired old joke. And I think you've worn out your age jokes with him while we're at it.



not like he needs me standing up for him and I'm not, I'm just saying watching a troll make age jokes to some kid who's probably the older white equivalent to Smart Guy is a bit pathetic after a while.

[sammyboy516]

I didn't realize socialism was a gateway drug.

socialism can only work if the people running it are perfect. that cant happen. corruption and a hunger for power will always exist, so when the government or any one person gets too much power, some form of tyranny will result.

[Manicapathy]

Yeah, I know thing about health insurance....

Because I play in a pop-punk band, that negates all of my licensing & training....only on absolutepunk!

Besides this is our new picture...Mike Boudreau doesnt play with us anymore

http://www.absolutepunk.net/<a href= (http://www.absolutepunk.net/%3Ca%20href=)

Regardless, would like to know what ya think about this whole damn thing, and why.

Hate it because the president's a socialist, or like it because we hate it?

[jwicklun]

of course it's necessary! what if the internet becomes self aware? You've seen the terminator movies right? the kill switch is needed, and I fully support it.

[SilenceBrokenTT]

1984 anyone?!

Only 8 posts in? Was expecting top three for sure.

[takenflight]

https://ociaccess.oci.wi.gov/ProducerInfo/GetPrdLoa.oci?prdId=0

Yeah, I know thing about health insurance....

Because I play in a pop-punk band, that negates all of my licensing & training....only on absolutepunk!

Besides , that pic is way out of date....go here if you want to see what we look like

www.myspace.com/takenflightmusic (http://www.myspace.com/takenflightmusic)



socialism can only work if the people running it are perfect. that cant happen. corruption and a hunger for power will always exist, so when the government or any one person gets too much power, some form of tyranny will result.

Thank you.

[sammyboy516]

How is it sarcasm? Even the US Socialist Workers Party gives it as an official ideology.

a libertarian would believe in no government control. socialism needs government control to function.

[takenflight]

Regardless, would like to know what ya think about this whole damn thing, and why.

Hate it because the president's a socialist, or like it because we hate it?


Are you refering to the kill switch proposal?

[Manicapathy]

Are you refering to the kill switch proposal?

Take it back to square 1, yea.

[Machu505]

a libertarian would believe in no government control. socialism needs government control to function.
Libertarians in the economic sense just believe in corporate dictatorship, and American examples like Rand Paul are social conservatives. Socialism in the 21st century sense doesn't involve itself in the private lives and social business of regular citizens.

[zion the lion]

So....you support this thing? What in god's name would make you think that this is a good idea?

We're going to end up there anyway...It may get struck down now, but they're going to push it and push it until eventually it gets passed and then tada. I dont support fully support it, but now or 70 years from now that power is going to be right there in the presidents hands. The internet has been around for how long (40 years?) it was bound to happen here anyway.


And no J.C. I dont just disagree to disagree because everyone is agreeing.

[jwicklun]

can we stop the troll fight with takenflight? it's bad enough he derailed this thread. He's already created one stupid thread, I don't want another one.

[takenflight]

Its overreaching government control

I'm a moderate....thats not government in moderation

Thats why I disagree with it...It appears we may have finally found some common ground...

[Manicapathy]

We're going to end up there anyway...It may get struck down now, but they're going to push it and push it until eventually it gets passed and then tada. I dont support fully support it, but now or 70 years from now that power is going to be right there in the presidents hands. The internet has been around for how long (40 years?) it was bound to happen here anyway.

Like fuck it's bound to happen. Americans are somewhat complacent as a whole, but there are certain things we will kick, scream and bleed to protect. Guns is one of them. Freedom of speech is another. I hope it never gets to that point, and I highly doubt it ever will. Noting the amount of shit China catches for it's "great fire wall" I seriously don't think we will ever come close to passing anything remotely close to this.

[Praetor]

that's socialism. typical answer, i know, but it's taking away a freedom.
Probably late on this, but lol.

[Manicapathy]

Its overreaching government control

I'm a moderate....thats not government in moderation

Thats why I disagree with it...It appears we may have finally found some common ground...

Hooray! break out the drum circle! It's time for Kumbaya!

[takenflight]

can we stop the troll fight with takenflight? it's bad enough he derailed this thread. He's already created one stupid thread, I don't want another one.


Oh I'm sorry, oh holy one.

I'll never post again....(sacrasm)

If you don't like what I write don't read it

Have a SPARKLING day! :)

[Praetor]

No it's not! Socialism = Economic principal, it's authoritarian or fascist, depending on your view- it's not an economic thing. That's like saying that the freedom of speech is clearly capitalist. They're incongruent.
Authoritarianism and fascism are not interchangeable terms.

[sammyboy516]

Libertarians in the economic sense just believe in corporate dictatorship, and American examples like Rand Paul are social conservatives. Socialism in the 21st century sense doesn't involve itself in the private lives and social business of regular citizens.

Socialism requires the government to control most aspects of citizen's lives, especially economically. And Socialism in the 21st century certainly involves itself in the private lives of the citizenry. It has to in order to "equalize" society. And if you think it doesn't, just ask the people in Venezuela. Just last week their "president" (dictator) arrested a major member of the media for "criticizing the government." Sounds a bit like turning off the internet cause you don't like what it's saying about you....

[takenflight]

Socialism requires the government to control most aspects of citizen's lives, especially economically. And Socialism in the 21st century certainly involves itself in the private lives of the citizenry. It has to in order to "equalize" society. And if you think it doesn't, just ask the people in Venezuela. Just last week their "president" (dictator) arrested a major member of the media for "criticizing the government." Sounds a bit like turning off the internet cause you don't like what it's saying about you....

BINGO!

[jwicklun]

Oh I'm sorry, oh holy one.

I'll never post again....(sacrasm)

If you don't like what I write don't read it

Have a SPARKLING day! :)

jesus christ, we've been through this socialism does not equal totalitarianism fight too many god damn times. let's discuss what the fuck we actually have at hand.

[takenflight]

Sure

The internet killswitch is bullshit. Its a ploy for overreaching government control

that better?

[Praetor]

Socialism requires the government to control most aspects of citizen's lives, especially economically. And Socialism in the 21st century certainly involves itself in the private lives of the citizenry. It has to in order to "equalize" society. And if you think it doesn't, just ask the people in Venezuela. Just last week their "president" (dictator) arrested a major member of the media for "criticizing the government." Sounds a bit like turning off the internet cause you don't like what it's saying about you....
That doesn't say anything about socialism as an ideology. Socialism is not authoritarianism and it CERTAINLY isn't fascism.

[J.C.]

socialism can only work if the people running it are perfect. that cant happen. corruption and a hunger for power will always exist, so when the government or any one person gets too much power, some form of tyranny will result.

Corruption and a hunger for power are not the result of socialism, they're the result of human behavior. As such, they'll play equally as much of a factor in any other economic or political system you want to think of.

You may just as well be arguing against the concept of organized religion because it only leads to corruption, monolithic thought, and a concentration of power.

[Machu505]

Probably late on this, but lol.
You've been missed.
Socialism requires the government to control most aspects of citizen's lives, especially economically. And Socialism in the 21st century certainly involves itself in the private lives of the citizenry. It has to in order to "equalize" society. And if you think it doesn't, just ask the people in Venezuela. Just last week their "president" (dictator) arrested a major member of the media for "criticizing the government." Sounds a bit like turning off the internet cause you don't like what it's saying about you....

Chavez doesn't matter to me. Authoritarian socialists are traitors to their people, and the democratic socialists will criticize them to the end (1984 serves as a fine critique of Stalinism by a self-proclaimed socialist, Orwell).

[sammyboy516]

Corruption and a hunger for power are not the result of socialism, they're the result of human behavior. As such, they'll play equally as much of a factor in any other economic or political system you want to think of.

You may just as well be arguing against the concept of organized religion because it only leads to corruption, monolithic thought, and a concentration of power.


and that's exactly why a form of government where any one person has to much power can't exist. it needs to be spread.

[takenflight]

That doesn't say anything about socialism as an ideology. Socialism is not authoritarianism and it CERTAINLY isn't fascism.


Do you think this "ideology" can realistically work when taking human behavior into consideration?

If you don't think so, than there is no point in defeinding it.

It was a stupid idea.

Case closed.

[Theseventhson]

Do you think this "ideology" can realistically work when taking human behavior into consideration?

If you don't think so, than there is no point in defeinding it.

It was a stupid idea.

Case closed.

:lol:

[zion the lion]

Like fuck it's bound to happen. Americans are somewhat complacent as a whole, but there are certain things we will kick, scream and bleed to protect. Guns is one of them. Freedom of speech is another. I hope it never gets to that point, and I highly doubt it ever will. Noting the amount of shit China catches for it's "great fire wall" I seriously don't think we will ever come close to passing anything remotely close to this.

There arent that many things that the whole country will actually kick and scream and bleed to protect, that may have been true 250 years ago, but its not true anymore, look at us, we're already divided about guns, and how many pro gun people are really willing to fight for their right to keep a gun? Not that many (excluding the fringe lunatics). Look at us as a country, we are some very fucking lazy, we wont fight for our money, we wont fight for better education we wont fight for anything...do you really think we're going to start kicking and screaming about how much control the president has over the internet? I understand people are protective over their porn but that isnt really what this is controlling.

We already take the internet for granted, just imagine how indifferent our generation's children will be with the internet, if they dont pass it, then their children probably will. Eventually its going to happen.

[takenflight]

:lol:

Its really not that much more complicated than that...


Why sit & debate it if the ideology can never become a success in reality?

[J.C.]

and that's exactly why a form of government where any one person has to much power can't exist. it needs to be spread.

sup comrade

You're making an anti-authoritarian argument(which isn't even fascism). I suppose you'll also agree that libertarianism is also an unpractical ideology that can only lead to anarchy if truly implemented.

[Theseventhson]

Its really not that much more complicated than that...


Why sit & debate it if the ideology can never become a success in reality?

Once again, :lol:

[sammyboy516]

YChavez doesn't matter to me. Authoritarian socialists are traitors to their people, and the democratic socialists will criticize them to the end (1984 serves as a fine critique of Stalinism by a self-proclaimed socialist, Orwell).

You have unearthed the flaws perfectly. Call it democratic, republican, or whatever socialism you want, it ALWAYS ends in tyranny. Socialism is only enforceable with the barrel of a gun, because at some point people realize that they are entitled to the fruits of their labor. There is no lasting example of democratic socialism on earth because of this. The European countries attempting it have created a disturbing hybrid that cannot function (i.e. Greece), and will eventually follow to totalitarianism. Chavez was democratically elected. His regime meets the definition of a democratic socialist society, and yet it inevitably resulted in tyranny. Rather quickly too I might add. The only way to govern is to let people retain as much individual liberty as humanly possible, giving the government only the ability to protect life, liberty, and property. To paraphrase Jefferson, a government becomes illegitimate the second it decides it knows what to do with its citizens' resources better than they do.

[caveBEAR]

:-|

How did 'internet kill switch' lead to 'socialism'?

[Theseventhson]

:-|

How did 'internet kill switch' lead to 'socialism'?

internet kill switch = fascism = socialism, duh.

[sammyboy516]

sup comrade

You're making an anti-authoritarian argument(which isn't even fascism). I suppose you'll also agree that libertarianism is also an unpractical ideology that can only lead to anarchy if truly implemented.

pure libertarianism, yes, would lead to anarchy. what's required is as little government involvement in citizen's lives as possible.

[Machu505]

You have unearthed the flaws perfectly. Call it democratic, republican, or whatever socialism you want, it ALWAYS ends in tyranny. Socialism is only enforceable with the barrel of a gun, because at some point people realize that they are entitled to the fruits of their labor.
Which is the reason socialist movements begin.

There is no lasting example of democratic socialism on earth because of this. The European countries attempting it have created a disturbing hybrid that cannot function (i.e. Greece), and will eventually follow to totalitarianism.
The welfare state will not inevitably lead to financial meltdown. Greece is far more complicated than a failed European-type welfare state. One must consider the global financial crisis, the constraints of the euro, and general mismanagement of their system.

Chavez was democratically elected. His regime meets the definition of a democratic socialist society, and yet it inevitably resulted in tyranny. Rather quickly too I might add.
The love of power is not exclusive to socialists, need I remind you.

The only way to govern is to let people retain as much individual liberty as humanly possible, giving the government only the ability to protect life, liberty, and property. To paraphrase Jefferson, a government becomes illegitimate the second it decides it knows what to do with its citizens' resources better than they do.
Jefferson also lived more than 200 years ago. His comments on government cannot be taken as gospel.

[Machu505]

pure libertarianism, yes, would lead to anarchy. what's required is as little government involvement in citizen's lives as possible.
Which leaves me in complete confusion as to what you advocate, besides these ambiguous phrases.

[troubledbyinsects]

internet kill switch = fascism = socialism, duh.
= death to the world

[Machu505]

I feel like this entire conversation is just a cancer to the thread. To return to topic:

Lieberman plan bad.

[jwicklun]

someone make a thread about this dumbass debate, so we can never speak about it again. at least here.

[loveisdead]

I bumped the socialism thread. Everyone interested in continuing a debate about socialism can do so in there.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

I feel like this entire conversation is just a cancer to the thread. To return to topic:

Lieberman plan bad.

I'm still proud to say I helped oust Lieberman from the Democratic party in Connecticut in 2006. Yet somehow, he was re-elected Senator.

[loveisdead]

I'm still proud to say I helped oust Lieberman from the Democratic party in Connecticut in 2006. Yet somehow, he was re-elected Senator.

I absolutely hate him.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

I absolutely hate him.

I have confidence CT AG Richard Blumenthal will take over Dodd's Senate seat.

[loveisdead]

I have confidence CT AG Richard Blumenthal will take over Dodd's Senate seat.

That would be nice. I kinda like him.

[caveBEAR]

I can't even think of Lieberman anymore without imagining John Stewart doing the Droopy voice.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

I can't even think of Lieberman anymore without imagining John Stewart doing the Droopy voice.

terrific impression

[ChaplainTappman]

i understand socialism, and it leads to fascism.

despite the fact that isn't provable either way, your post implies you're wrong by calling this socialism.
giving the president the ability to 'shut down' parts of the internet in a national emergency =/= government operation of the market system

[rawspinner]

Oh God, I hope this doesn't go through. I can't live without Farmville.

/thread.

PS. Lets be friends.

[sammyboy516]

Which leaves me in complete confusion as to what you advocate, besides these ambiguous phrases.

read my post again. i advocate as little government control in citizens' lives as possible. i advocate strict adherence to the original intent of the greatest founding document in the history of mankind; not perfect, but as close to perfect as man has ever come (and probably ever will). unfortunately, it's taken us only 200 years to stray so far from it that founders would abhor what we've turned it into it.

[loveisdead]

Socialism thread. I bumped it for a reason.

[DeathOrGlory]

read my post again. i advocate as little government control in citizens' lives as possible. i advocate strict adherence to the original intent of the greatest founding document in the history of mankind; not perfect, but as close to perfect as man will ever come (and probably ever will). unfortunately, it's taken us only 200 years to stray so far from it that founders would abhor what we've turned it into it.
hahahahahaha. you sir are a piece of work.

[sammyboy516]

Which is the reason socialist movements begin.

Then why do they take what I'm entitled to and redistribute it to those who they feel are "more entitled?"

The welfare state will not inevitably lead to financial meltdown. Greece is far more complicated than a failed European-type welfare state. One must consider the global financial crisis, the constraints of the euro, and general mismanagement of their system.

Financial crisis= governments trying to intervene in the market (stupid idea) and the market correcting itself. Constraints of the Euro=A worthless piece of government fiat money showing itself for what it is. Valueless. General mismanagement of system=typical government bureaucracy that is incapable of doing anything (see also, Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid). Funny, all government caused problems. Exactly why the welfare state will always lead to financial meltdown. The U.S. is dangerously close.


The love of power is not exclusive to socialists, need I remind you.

Precisely why I advocate giving people no power in the first place. Only enough to protect life, liberty, and property; nothing more.


Jefferson also lived more than 200 years ago. His comments on government cannot be taken as gospel.

And now you've exposed exactly why we disagree. Jefferson's views are just as relevant, if not more, today. He fought tyranny, as do I. Socialism existed in his day, and the Founder's unanimously rejected it, and believed they had protected against it via the Constitution. But alas, we have warped that documents meaning. You and I will not agree, simply because we have a fundamental dispute on what the proper role of government is. But Error can, and must be, allowed to live, because reason will always triumph.

[caveBEAR]

He fought tyranny, as do I.

:lol: Touch melodramatic, no?

[DevinDomino]

Only 8 posts in? Was expecting top three for sure.
Tell me about it! I was honestly freaking shocked I was the first one to think to post that.

[samsara]

Oy this thread into a shitfest in two seconds, glad its back.

[Scrandon]

So nobody was in favor of this except for the people in power and, of course, zion?

Sounds about right.

[zion the lion]

So nobody was in favor of this except for the people in power and, of course, zion?

Sounds about right.

I actually specifically said I want in favor of it but thanks for putting words in my mouth. I said its bound to happen sooner or later though.

[Scrandon]

I actually specifically said I want in favor of it but thanks for putting words in my mouth. I said its bound to happen sooner or later though.

Okay, let me just...

Sure why not.

And there it is!

Don't bother responding, I'm done.

[takenflight]

internet kill switch = fascism = socialism, duh.

do you think socialism can work in todays american soceity as an uncorrupt form of government?

Answer the question instead of hiding behind sarcasm

[samsara]

Well if Canada can do it...

[takenflight]

Well if Canada can do it...


pfffffff.....

[samsara]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Canadas-economy-is-suddenly-apf-807130582.html?x=0


And with this...

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

do you think socialism can work in todays american soceity as an uncorrupt form of government?

Answer the question instead of hiding behind sarcasm

It cannot work in America because Americans are so in love with capitalism (even when it fucks them over).

[saysmydoctor]

You're thinking of fascism, asshat.

Shooting people for not agreeing with socialism isn't a tenet of socialism, Isaac Newton.

I didn't realize socialism was a gateway drug.

She's a contrarian, if no one's figured it out by now.
You were on fire in this thread and if scene points were around, I'd give you mine plus everyone else's.

[zion the lion]

Okay, let me just...



And there it is!

Don't bother responding, I'm done.

and then you didnt read anything else I said did you.


no you arent.

[takenflight]

It cannot work in America because Americans are so in love with capitalism (even when it fucks them over).

Its better than being completely fucked (socialism)

It at least allows the innovative to be rewarded for their hard work

[saysmydoctor]

Its better than being completely fucked (socialism)

It at least allows the innovative to be rewarded for their hard work
Socialism doesn't?

[samsara]

Its better than being completely fucked (socialism)

It at least allows the innovative to be rewarded for their hard work

But it also keeps the people that cant afford things poor.

[Scrawns]

that's socialism. typical answer, i know, but it's taking away a freedom.

losing a freedom ≠ socialism.

the word you are looking for is fascism, or ultra-conservatism. if the government created its own ISP, then restricted every other ISP then that would be socialism. shutting off the internet is quite different. you aren't losing a freedom by losing your internet. just like how you arent losing freedoms if the government shut off the power. the word freedom can be loosely defined these days, but you certainly do not have the constitutional right to have internet. plus, if an enemy nation created a system that targeted the homes of lets say, all americans of german descent and then fired guided missles at all those homes by using their internet to find their location, you would be pretty fucking eager to flip that switch.

and no that kind of thing isnt that ridiculous. our military uses intercepted radio, television, and phone signals to locate enemies all the time.

[Praetor]

Do you think this "ideology" can realistically work when taking human behavior into consideration?

If you don't think so, than there is no point in defeinding it.

It was a stupid idea.

Case closed.
Different discussion. Stop shifting the goalposts.

[Praetor]

You've been missed.
haha I've missed this forum. <3 you Machu Matt.

I was thinking of dropping the "fascism is a capitalist ideology" bomb but I figure it would blow these fucks' minds.

[Zeran]

Saw this in the tech round up
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-20007418-38.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20

Thoughts? This won't pass...will it?


no.

[punk89]

This is a terrible idea.

[punk89]

I absolutely hate him.

Lieberman is a complete ass.

[deFobbed14yrs]

KILLSWITCH, BAD IDEA. KILLSWITCH ENGAGE, ok band.

[sammyboy516]

losing a freedom ≠ socialism.

the word you are looking for is fascism, or ultra-conservatism. if the government created its own ISP, then restricted every other ISP then that would be socialism. shutting off the internet is quite different. you aren't losing a freedom by losing your internet. just like how you arent losing freedoms if the government shut off the power. the word freedom can be loosely defined these days, but you certainly do not have the constitutional right to have internet. plus, if an enemy nation created a system that targeted the homes of lets say, all americans of german descent and then fired guided missles at all those homes by using their internet to find their location, you would be pretty fucking eager to flip that switch.

and no that kind of thing isnt that ridiculous. our military uses intercepted radio, television, and phone signals to locate enemies all the time.


taking away the internet would be taking away a medium for free speech. that's in the constitution. and, as i've already said in this thread, socialism always leads to fascism.

[Scrandon]

and then you didnt read anything else I said did you.


no you arent.

SORRY I DIDN'T KNOW YOU SCATTER YOUR TRUE FEELINGS IN BITS AND PIECES THROUGHOUT MULTIPLE POSTS>

But again, I am going to try to keep the zion factor to a minimum this thread and ignore you, kay bye.

[Scrandon]

Its better than being completely fucked (socialism)

It at least allows the innovative to be rewarded for their hard work

You don't seem to understand that socialism, in theory, is pretty much the perfect organization of society.

However, I will agree with you that in most cases the real life applications do not hold up with the theory.

Just stop sounding like and idiot by saying that socialism is bad and, if you must, argue that it doesn't work in real life.

[Praetor]

taking away the internet would be taking away a medium for free speech. that's in the constitution. and, as i've already said in this thread, socialism always leads to fascism.
FOR FUCK'S SAKE, fascism, authoritarianism, and totalitarianism ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE TERMS.

[saysmydoctor]

taking away the internet would be taking away a medium for free speech. that's in the constitution. and, as i've already said in this thread, socialism always leads to fascism.
The two don't even like each other, they definitely don't lead to each other

"Socialist" Russia and fascist Germany fought a fucking war. You can keep saying the same thing over and over again, you will still end up being tragically wrong at the end of the day.

[open mind]

taking away the internet would be taking away a medium for free speech. that's in the constitution. and, as i've already said in this thread, socialism always leads to fascism.

you are not guaranteed access to all mediums of free speech in the constitution.

[twelve2395]

The potential for abuse is why not. Couple years down the line, whose to say that someone won't start shutting down stuff that belittles the government or something like that. People will get up in arms sure, but if it passes, then such a move would be completely in their ability to make.

that's a stretch

[Zeran]

The two don't even like each other, they definitely don't lead to each other

"Socialist" Russia and fascist Germany fought a fucking war. You can keep saying the same thing over and over again, you will still end up being tragically wrong at the end of the day.

fascism and socialism definitely hate each other deeply. i don't know why people associate the two, as if they collude together.

[splitsecond]

fascism and socialism definitely hate each other deeply. i don't know why people associate the two, as if they collude together.

Historically fascism has been established under the pseudonyms of socialism and communism. And in the past, government & media have made them all at to all look like basically the same things. That is pretty much why in a nutshell.

[saysmydoctor]

that's a stretch
Wow, you use that term loosely.

[pnkhrdwndr]

our economy would go down instantly if they shut off the internet. You think the recession sucks now?

[open mind]

Historically fascism has been established under the pseudonyms of socialism and communism. And in the past, government & media have made them all at to all look like basically the same things. That is pretty much why in a nutshell.

assuming that i'm understanding what you're trying to say (which i'm not sure of) i'm gonna have to disagree. the first fascist governments of mussolini, franco, and hitler despised socialism and communism. a socialist movement can turn totalitarian or authoritarian but it can't become fascist without a nearly complete reversal on key ideological stances.

[Manicapathy]

that's a stretch

I always tend to go to worst case scenario with this kind of stuff. While it might not get that bad, it flies right in the face of what I think the govt should and should not be allowed to do with forms of communication such as these.

[StrictlyBiznas]

that's socialism. typical answer, i know, but it's taking away a freedom.

The internet is a freedom?

[Asshole AL]

I don't see it happening without LOTS of people buggin the fack out...I need my interent!!

[sammyboy516]

The internet is a freedom?

free speech is.

[Two Headed Girl]

that's socialism. typical answer, i know, but it's taking away a freedom. yep 46th Ammendment right to internet

[Asshole AL]

good to know...

[Machu505]

You folks really ought to read this (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/06/joe-lieberman-and-the-myth-of-the-internet-kill-switch.php?ref=fpb).

[open mind]

You folks really ought to read this (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/06/joe-lieberman-and-the-myth-of-the-internet-kill-switch.php?ref=fpb).

in other words this bill is designed to create redundancies in our illusion of control, and cause panic among the security seeking morons (who will never feel secure) of our nation right?

edit:i'm extremely fucked up right now on legal drugs.....but even drunk and stoned out of my mind i'm perfectly capable of arguing the fact that what goes into my body should be my decision and the government should have no control over that.....even if i'm smoking 20 packs a days the government has no right to tell me how to live.

[Ryan Rumsey]

yep 46th Ammendment right to internet

Hey, I think I have heard of that.

[Zeran]

Historically fascism has been established under the pseudonyms of socialism and communism. And in the past, government & media have made them all at to all look like basically the same things. That is pretty much why in a nutshell.

well, i know in germany the fascist party were called the national socialist worker's party, but wasn't it just called the fascist party in italy?

and the nazis totally blamed communists for burning down the reichstag and sent them to concentration camps, despite the "socialist" name in their party.

[caveBEAR]

A killer whale is actually a dolphin. Names don't take precedence over reality.

[perceptrons]

You folks really ought to read this (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/06/joe-lieberman-and-the-myth-of-the-internet-kill-switch.php?ref=fpb).
Thank you. I remember when I originally heard about this story awhile ago and I didn't remember it being like everyone was making it out to be. I felt like I was on crazy pills.

[Two Headed Girl]

Hey, I think I have heard of that.

It's kind of a big deal.

[eriatarka24]

Socialism: Any of various political philosophies that support social and economic equality, collective decision-making, and public control of productive capital and natural resources


Is the internet not a productive capital resource? Is Obama not trying to take control of it?


......dun dun dun.....

[Matt Chylak]

also: is what they're proposing even possible to do

[Zeran]

Is the internet not a productive capital resource? Is Obama not trying to take control of it?


......dun dun dun.....

is obama trying to take control of it? no.

[loveisdead]

also: is what they're proposing even possible to do

China already kinda does this so I assume so.

[Matt Chylak]

China already kinda does this so I assume so.

don't they just put up firewalls on certain sites? there's ways to get around it i think...they just punish the people who do it

[loveisdead]

don't they just put up firewalls on certain sites? there's ways to get around it i think...they just punish the people who do it

I think this is kinda what's implied in the bill.

[Matt Chylak]

I think this is kinda what's implied in the bill.

ah. i was given the impression that the government could actually force certain sites to shut down. that's what i get for not paying closer attention while i read

[loveisdead]

ah. i was given the impression that the government could actually force certain sites to shut down. that's what i get for not paying closer attention while i read

Don't take my word for it. I'm sorta confused by the whole thing. It doesn't really matter cause it won't get passed anyway.

[Matt Chylak]

Don't take my word for it. I'm sorta confused by the whole thing. It doesn't really matter cause it won't get passed anyway.

yeah, it's interesting to think abotu

[<*)))><]

If a random person can knock out the internet why not the most powerful person in the world.

[loveisdead]

Here's a video by YouTube user "KenyanbornObamaAcorn" describing the situation.
MDx5zF7d7Dc&feature=player_embedded

[thursday727]

god you people are behind the times , Alex Jones and "conspiracy theory" people have been saying this was going to happen about this for at least a year now.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

Here's a video by YouTube user "KenyanbornObamaAcorn" describing the situation.

Can't view the video since I'm at work, but LOL at the user name. He/she clearly has an agenda.

[majinsharingan]

I know exactly how this would go...John C. McGinley predicted this years ago....

"If they took all the porn off the internet there would only be one site left and it'd be called 'Bring Back The Porn'".

Anyway hm...scary.

[Disconsolate]

The state wanting more power? Odd.

[open mind]

not one reference to the south park episode where the internet goes out?