So much about morals.

[Lueda Alia]

I'm sure everyone knows about the Foley scandal by now. If you don't know what's going on, I don't know where you've been living for the past week, but read this (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/30/us/30foley.html?ex=1317268800&en=768582540c8b478c&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss). There's articles all over the internet about this scandal, and I'm sure it's on news stations a lot too.

I just wanted to know what everyone's opinion on this is, especially Republicans. The Republican party always likes to brag about morals, and yet, many people in Congress (Republicans) have known about this and about Foley's "fetish" for a long, long time. Some knew about it since 2001 and no one did anything about it for political reasons. How amazing? The people who are so against abortion, gay rights, etc .. did something so low? This proves how some people who appear to be the most moral, are the least moral of all.

I don't know how anyone can trust that party after this, or brag about morals and accuse Democrats for not having any. What's even more unbelievable is the fact that some try to blame the Democrats (who knew absolutely nothing about this), children and gays! As if being a homosexual has anything to do with being a pedophile.

Oh and I wanted to point this out to Fox viewers:

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/Fox_Foley_3.jpg

Haha everyone that takes Fox news seriously must live in a different world. It's amazing how desperate Republicans are right now, though. Amazing.

Check this (http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/10/04/washington/05hastert_graphicsub.html) out too.

I seriously urge everyone that's going to vote this coming November to stay informed about everything that's going on right now. Read articles, watch news (as long as it's not Fox), just don't be blind about everything that is going on. This is a disaster and everyone involved should be punished. We're talking about innocent children here - innocent children who aren't being protected by the people they should feel protected by, the people who are in charge of the freaking country!

[smokedsanity]

Welcome to the world of politics. I'm glad you could join us.

[Lueda Alia]

Welcome to the world of politics. I'm glad you could join us.
Politicans are liars and we all accept that fact, but when they're pedophiles, that's not as acceptable, so it's a huge deal.

[Lueda Alia]

Watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMdrYZ-GhSc&eurl=

[FScott]

Politicans are liars and we all accept that fact, but when they're pedophiles, that's not as acceptable, so it's a huge deal.

i agree

[smokedsanity]

Politicans are liars and we all accept that fact, but when they're pedophiles, that's not as acceptable, so it's a huge deal.

Bad people are bad people. To what degree does not matter to me.

[Lueda Alia]

Bad people are bad people. To what degree does not matter to me.
Then please don't brag about your so called morals/principles. I happen to think that killing someone is worse than stealing, but if you think they're the same.. OK.

[smokedsanity]

Then please don't brag about your so called morals/principles. I happen to think that killing someone is worse than stealing, but if you think they're the same.. OK.

Wow, you just don't get that you cannot overlook something simply because there is a worse something in existence.

[Lueda Alia]

Wow, you just don't get that you cannot overlook something simply because there is a worse something in existence.
That doesn't make sense, sorry.

[Lueda Alia]

When it comes down to it, this is not a political issue. Something disgusting happened and everyone involved should be punished for it.

Believe me, I would feel just as strongly about that if the Democrats were part of the scandal.

[a speedo model]

it's disgusting and he should be prosecuted. i'm curious as to why you especially want to know what Republicans think...

[Lueda Alia]

it's disgusting and he should be prosecuted. i'm curious as to why you especially want to know what Republicans think...
Because many are trying to find excuses for his actions and the rest of the Republicans who did nothing to stop this.

[a speedo model]

Because many are trying to find excuses for his actions and the rest of the Republicans who did nothing to stop this.
you mean politicians? or just Republicans in general have been finding excuses for him?

[youcomebeforeyo]

Good old dirty Fox News. I personally enjoyed seeing the Daily Show being blamed as the reason youth are apathetic to the political process.

It definately flies in the face of what the Republican party preach.

[smokedsanity]

That doesn't make sense, sorry.

It's over with now, but what I meant was....you seemed to be excusing other wrong doings by saying, "he's a child molester." I'm sorry, but the way I see things: there is a line, once it is crossed, it is crossed. A person can go further than others past that line, but they have all crossed it. Just because one person went five steps past the line does not cancel out the two steps taken by someone else. All that said, I think this guy was wrong. No question about it. I won't try to defend him, I won't try to downplay it. Just, when discussing issues of morality, a person can't accept one thing just because there is a worse thing in existence. But, we're talking about morals, it all depends on the person. I was in shitty mood, decided to voice things...without thinking them through at all and came across as an asshole. My apologies.

[a speedo model]

It's over with now, but what I meant was....you seemed to be excusing other wrong doings by saying, "he's a child molester." I'm sorry, but the way I see things: there is a line, once it is crossed, it is crossed. A person can go further than others past that line, but they have all crossed it. Just because one person went five steps past the line does not cancel out the two steps taken by someone else. All that said, I think this guy was wrong. No question about it. I won't try to defend him, I won't try to downplay it. Just, when discussing issues of morality, a person can't accept one thing just because there is a worse thing in existence. But, we're talking about morals, it all depends on the person. I was in shitty mood, decided to voice things...without thinking them through at all and came across as an asshole. My apologies.
i'm really trying to understand what the hell the point you're trying to make here...

[Lueda Alia]

you mean politicians? or just Republicans in general have been finding excuses for him?
Both.

I mean, it's a fact that others knew about Foley and they did nothing about it because they didn't want to risk a secure seat. Instead of throwing these people out of Congress, they (some Republicans & politicians) are defending them and it's unbelievable. These people shouldn't only be thrown out, they should be punished. It's disgusting how some people care more about power than anything else.

[Lueda Alia]

It's over with now, but what I meant was....you seemed to be excusing other wrong doings by saying, "he's a child molester." I'm sorry, but the way I see things: there is a line, once it is crossed, it is crossed. A person can go further than others past that line, but they have all crossed it. Just because one person went five steps past the line does not cancel out the two steps taken by someone else. All that said, I think this guy was wrong. No question about it. I won't try to defend him, I won't try to downplay it. Just, when discussing issues of morality, a person can't accept one thing just because there is a worse thing in existence. But, we're talking about morals, it all depends on the person. I was in shitty mood, decided to voice things...without thinking them through at all and came across as an asshole. My apologies.
Yeah that's okay, but I hope you realize that you clearly misunderstood me because I never tried to defend Clinton's actions - I was just expressing my disgust for the current scandal.

[Lueda Alia]

i'm really trying to understand what the hell the point you're trying to make here...
I think he's trying to say that whether it's cheating or molesting a kid, they're both immoral so they're the same and that one isn't worse than the other.

I don't agree with that at all, as I said before in this thread, but oh well.

[smokedsanity]

i'm really trying to understand what the hell the point you're trying to make here...

Apparently, I cannot put ideas into words. I thought that it would be clear and anyone could understand after I tried to make it possible to visualize the idea. Basically, there is a line. It divides right and wrong. One person takes two steps over the line towards wrong. Another person takes seven huge steps over the line towards wrong. Earlier, in discussion, it seemed to me that some people were excusing mildly bad behavior by bringing up terribly bad behavior. My point and visual was that, either way, the two have stepped over that line, both towards wrong. The person who was only mildly wrong and took only two steps should not be excused because someone else was terribly wrong and took seven steps.

I said it without the setup:
"Just, when discussing issues of morality, a person can't accept one thing just because there is a worse thing in existence."

Either way, it's done now. I was just trying to explain my thought process.

[smokedsanity]

I think he's trying to say that whether it's cheating or molesting a kid, they're both immoral so they're the same and that one isn't worse than the other.

I don't agree with that at all, as I said before in this thread, but oh well.

No no no no. I never said that one was not worse than the other. I DO believe that molestation is worse than cheating. I merely said that the lesser crime should not be overlooked simply because a worse crime exists. It seemed that the lesser wrong doings were thought to be ingnorable because someone had done something worse.

[Lueda Alia]

No no no no. I never said that one was not worse than the other. I DO believe that molestation is worse than cheating. I merely said that the lesser crime should not be overlooked simply because a worse crime exists. It seemed that the lesser wrong doings were thought to be ingnorable because someone had done something worse.
Well I don't remember anyone saying anything like that. Oh well, I guess we all misunderstood each other.

[a speedo model]

Both.

I mean, it's a fact that others knew about Foley and they did nothing about it because they didn't want to risk a secure seat. Instead of throwing these people out of Congress, they (some Republicans & politicians) are defending them and it's unbelievable. These people shouldn't only be thrown out, they should be punished. It's disgusting how some people care more about power than anything else.
hmm, not my stance whatsoever. but people hate admitting they're wrong...

[Lueda Alia]

hmm, not my stance whatsoever. but people hate admitting they're wrong...
That's true, but there's a limit, you know?

At this point it's not about politics anymore.

[a speedo model]

That's true, but there's a limit, you know?

At this point it's not about politics anymore.
no, i know. shit like this should never be covered up or hidden. i think that is completely wrong and i have no idea why it was allowed to be. but honestly, in politics there are so many idiots and so many agendas that it's hard to surprised (although, i am surprised it's a Republican)

[FScott]

im not the least bit, they get molested by their priests then they molest other children, its a cycle no no no ... its a fetish

[cal1082]

Because many are trying to find excuses for his actions and the rest of the Republicans who did nothing to stop this.

I honestly havent seen anyone try to excuse his actions

[cal1082]

Oh and the Fox News thing.........give me an F'ing break

I flipped on today for a second and the lead story was if Republicans were covering up, and you, yourself raised that accusation (which is a fair question). To question that the Democrats might be doing the same doesnt make Fox News coverage in any sense ridiculous. Rather it would make your assesment of the situation ridiculous for failing to see that both sides stood to gain/lose politicaly from the situation. So each had their reason to cover it up or release it at a sensative moment.

[Lueda Alia]

Oh and the Fox News thing.........give me an F'ing break

I flipped on today for a second and the lead story was if Republicans were covering up, and you, yourself raised that accusation (which is a fair question). To question that the Democrats might be doing the same doesnt make Fox News coverage in any sense ridiculous. Rather it would make your assesment of the situation ridiculous for failing to see that both sides stood to gain/lose politicaly from the situation. So each had their reason to cover it up or release it at a sensative moment.
Wait.. are you saying that what Fox "news" did was OK? I'm not sure how you can justify what they did? That's also not the first time they tried to say that Foley was a Democrat. I can show you another picture.

And just how could have the Democrats done the same? Why would they want to protect Foley? They surely wouldn't be gaining a seat by covering this up, unless they feel really generous and don't want the Republicans to lose a safe seat, which I very much doubt is the case.

Oh and if you're going to put it that way, I just want to let you know that it wasn't a Democrat that made the story come out. In fact, the source of the news was a Republican.

[Lueda Alia]

I honestly havent seen anyone try to excuse his actions
Didn't you hear/read what Bush said about Denny Hastert ? He surely didn't say a bad word about the guy, if anything, he defended him.

Also, other Republicans are trying to make this a gay issue and they're also saying how they didn't want to investigate the situation because they didn't want to come off as anti-gay. How funny? That's coming from the same people who have no problem making millions of anti-gay comments throughout their campaigns to win votes. It's unbelievable.

[boysdontcry17]

if this had happened in another country there'd be riots and a huge uproar

[cal1082]

Wait.. are you saying that what Fox "news" did was OK? I'm not sure how you can justify what they did? That's also not the first time they tried to say that Foley was a Democrat. I can show you another picture.

And just how could have the Democrats done the same? Why would they want to protect Foley? They surely wouldn't be gaining a seat by covering this up, unless they feel really generous and don't want the Republicans to lose a safe seat, which I very much doubt is the case.

Oh and if you're going to put it that way, I just want to let you know that it wasn't a Democrat that made the story come out. In fact, the source of the news was a Republican.

Figure it out.....Democrats could have known and wanted this story to come out 4 weeks from elections.

I'm not saying the Democrats did, and I'm not gonna say the Republican tried to cover it up (way to early to know the whole story).

[Linguistess]

if this had happened in another country there'd be riots and a huge uproar

I don't know about riots, but yeah, the overall reaction would have a completely different tenor and direction. For one, I think people would be more focused on the appalling wrong committed and which individuals should be prosecuted, and less on which party is at fault; there would probably be a lot less conjecture about whether this was a calculated move by the Democrats to oust Foley and take his seat in the fall, and just generally damage the Republican's image right before the midterm elections.

But that's just speculation.

[Lueda Alia]

Figure it out.....Democrats could have known and wanted this story to come out 4 weeks from elections.

I'm not saying the Democrats did, and I'm not gonna say the Republican tried to cover it up (way to early to know the whole story).
You know what I have to say to that? I couldn't care less. To me, it's not about Republicans or Democrats and fact of the matter is, Democrats did not know. If one day it turns out that they did, I'll hate them just as much as I hate the Republicans who covered it up and I'll want them to be punished, too. But so far, none of them seem to be guilty of anything.

And it's a fact that the Republicans did cover it up. I can provide you links to many, many articles that prove that.

[Justin_stacy]

Haha everyone that takes Fox news seriously must live in a different world. It's amazing how desperate Republicans are right now, though. Amazing.

!

Anyone who uses institutions like the NY TIMES (http://www.timeswatch.com/) or propagandist like the dailykos to justify bias claims against fox news must really live in a very different, very confused, world.


As for Foley he is a sick weak individual, and the Republicans were wrong, just as the Catholics were wrong, for covering for him. But time and time again both parties have shown that the need for power is stronger then the need for ethics. Hell I don’t remember democrats demanding McGreevey step down immediately after his scandal broke so that a special election could happen. And why?? Because a special election would have given Republicans a real chance at the governor seat and electoral votes in 04’. Power was more important then doing the right, honest, thing. Power doesn’t only corrupt, it justifies ignorance and blindness.

As for Republicans using the morality card, that is just buzz word politics, no different the democrats playing the race card game. Morality plays to a religious few who take words over actions, and it has no inherent meaning in politics. It shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone who actual follows politics that a side which "claims" (or acts) to be the morality police turns out to have a deviant in its closet. .

[Broken Parachute]

What does this have to do with political parties? Dude's a creep.

And I'm sure not every Conservative is a person of morals.

And one person doesn't define a political party. There are plenty of crazy Conservatives and plenty of equally crazy Liberals. It's politics, what can you do about it?

[fromwithin]

Wow, you just don't get that you cannot overlook something simply because there is a worse something in existence.

I stopped trying.

[a speedo model]

Anyone who uses institutions like the NY TIMES (http://www.timeswatch.com/)or propagandist like the dailykos to justify bias claims against fox news must really live in a very different, very confused, world.


As for Foley he is a sick weak individual, and the Republicans were wrong, just as the Catholics were wrong, for covering for him. But time and time again both parties have shown that the need for power is stronger then the need for ethics. Hell I don’t remember democrats demanding McGreevey step down immediately after his scandal broke so that a special election could happen. And why?? Because a special election would have given Republicans a real chance at the governor seat and electoral votes in 04’. Power was more important then doing the right, honest, thing. Power doesn’t only corrupt, it justifies ignorance and blindness.

As for Republicans using the morality card, that is just buzz word politics, no different the democrats playing the race card game. Morality plays to a religious few who take words over actions, and it has no inherent meaning in politics. It shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone who actual follows politics that a side which "claims" (or acts) to be the morality police turns out to have a deviant in its closet. .

What does this have to do with political parties? Dude's a creep.

And I'm sure not every Conservative is a person of morals.

And one person doesn't define a political party. There are plenty of crazy Conservatives and plenty of equally crazy Liberals. It's politics, what can you do about it?
:appl:

exactly my thoughts

[richter915]

What does this have to do with political parties? Dude's a creep.

And I'm sure not every Conservative is a person of morals.

And one person doesn't define a political party. There are plenty of crazy Conservatives and plenty of equally crazy Liberals. It's politics, what can you do about it?
the irony is that many conservatives hold "Christian values" very high and often use the Christian Right for their own political gain. That's the point she might goin after.

[richter915]

best shit ever...there was a little clip on Fox News that said Foley was a DEMOCRAT from fl. hilarious.

[Lueda Alia]

the irony is that many conservatives hold "Christian values" very high and often use the Christian Right for their own political gain. That's the point she might goin after.
Exactly.

If it wasn't for the Christian right, I very much doubt that the Republicans would be in power right now.

[Lueda Alia]

best shit ever...there was a little clip on Fox News that said Foley was a DEMOCRAT from fl. hilarious.
Haha it is pretty hilarious and sad at the same time.

[Broken Parachute]

the irony is that many conservatives hold "Christian values" very high and often use the Christian Right for their own political gain. That's the point she might goin after.
Yeah, I know. I was just sayin. My parents probably don't like me haha they're hardcore Conservatives. I'm not biased, I'll listen to both sides of the situation before I make a decision.

[FScott]

oh but doesn't everyone these days

[richter915]

Haha it is pretty hilarious and sad at the same time.
it's funny cause Jon Stewart was doing a thing on it and how every time they found out about how messed up Foley was...the GOP immediately found a reason why...like oh Foley had internet sex with a teen..well...he was molested as a child...so Stewart was joking and saying that the GOP should just blame the democrats...hell, why not say Foley is a democrat and he showed the clip...classic.

I love how Sean Hannity brings up Clinton's thing as well as some Democrat sex scandal from 23 years ago to try and justify Foley...sigh...typical.

[richter915]

Yeah, I know. I was just sayin. My parents probably don't like me haha they're hardcore Conservatives. I'm not biased, I'll listen to both sides of the situation before I make a decision.
of course and that's how it ought to be but the majority of the voters feel that they have chosen to be liberal or conservative and must fight that to the bone no matter what. Discussion is for the pigs.

[Lueda Alia]

it's funny cause Jon Stewart was doing a thing on it and how every time they found out about how messed up Foley was...the GOP immediately found a reason why...like oh Foley had internet sex with a teen..well...he was molested as a child...so Stewart was joking and saying that the GOP should just blame the democrats...hell, why not say Foley is a democrat and he showed the clip...classic.

I love how Sean Hannity brings up Clinton's thing as well as some Democrat sex scandal from 23 years ago to try and justify Foley...sigh...typical.
I bet he didn't mention that a Republican had an affair with a 17 year old female page at the same time back then (23 years ago), eh?

[a speedo model]

Sean Hannity is the man. :-)

[Justin_stacy]

I bet he didn't mention that a Republican had an affair with a 17 year old female page at the same time back then (23 years ago), eh?

or that a democrat had one with a male page around the same time, and didn't resign.

[FScott]

Thats different. Democrats don't believe in God so anything is permissible.

[Lueda Alia]

or that a democrat had one with a male page around the same time, and didn't resign.
That was already said, hence my reply.

[Lueda Alia]

Sean Hannity is the man. :-)
I believe he was the one who brought up Clinton and the scandal that happened 23 years ago. He sure does know how to make connections.

[Justin_stacy]

That was already said, hence my reply.
my bad, i thought that was still a reference to clinton and his math was just really really bad.

[Lueda Alia]

my bad, i thought that was still a reference to clinton and his math was just really really bad.
Haha it's all good. :-)

[a speedo model]

I believe he was the one who brought up Clinton and the scandal that happened 23 years ago. He sure does know how to make connections.
i've always thought he was dead on with his criticisms of the Democratic party :shrug:

[Lueda Alia]

i've always thought he was dead on with his criticisms of the Democratic party :shrug:
I thought most people didn't even take him seriously.

But that's your opinion and that's fine.

[a speedo model]

I thought most people didn't even take him seriously.

But that's your opinion and that's fine.
I've never heard that

[swirlofhues]

I don't belong to any party, but I wouldn't let a selected few who are (in my opinion) horrible people represent the whole Republican party. I agree that anyone who was involved in this and had knowledge should be ashamed of themselves and I hope that they'll be punished. And anyone that tries to defend Foley's actions are ridiculous.

But I can't say that I would ever lose respect for people who are Republican when not everyone was part of this. I wouldn't do that to any party, really. I believe those are just the horrible people being portrayed. It's kind of like how the media condemn Democrats for every little mistake that arises. It's annoying either way.

[swirlofhues]

it's funny cause Jon Stewart was doing a thing on it and how every time they found out about how messed up Foley was...the GOP immediately found a reason why...like oh Foley had internet sex with a teen..well...he was molested as a child...so Stewart was joking and saying that the GOP should just blame the democrats...hell, why not say Foley is a democrat and he showed the clip...classic.

I love how Sean Hannity brings up Clinton's thing as well as some Democrat sex scandal from 23 years ago to try and justify Foley...sigh...typical.

Oh my gosh, Foley also used the excuse that he was an alcoholic. He's so ridiculous.. he should be killed.

[xvszero]

I don't think people vote Republican because they think the actual politicians are all good people, they vote Republican because they like the party's platform.

[okheidi]

There is absolutely no proof that Democrats did or didn't know about this. If there was, not many people would be talking about this anymore.

Someone finally gets caught doing this shit and it's a huge deal. You talk of not wanting corrupt people to represent your chosen party, but imagine how many people don't get caught. Scandals are happening as we speak.

It doesn't add up; did the Democrats know and hold back the truth for years to win themselves the vote? Was Hastert told beforehand about this? I doubt we'll know any time soon. When it really comes down to it, people need to stop being surprised by this. Lying is in the political job description. And, obviously, one of the parties currently is.

[rocktometal]

i think that their was some amount of knowledge by both sides. i've heard washington is kind of like high school, so id imagine that their probably were some rumors going around about what was happening, but acting on such information would be much more"difficult" then just brushing it under the bed.

[A picasso blue]

Studs was a democrat

he molested a page

he was reelected many times


theres hypocrisy there. theres tremendous hypocrisy on both sides of the political fence

im becomg increasingly disillusioned by politics.

[Moni]

us gov. just became another breeding ground for pedophiles and greedy old bastards. meet your new neighbors, catholic church...

another reason why gun control doesn't work.
giving guns to sane, law abiding citizens = solution to the problem.

[rocktometal]

Studs was a democrat

he molested a page

he was reelected many times


theres hypocrisy there. theres tremendous hypocrisy on both sides of the political fence

im becomg increasingly disillusioned by politics.

american politics are on a downward spiral

[aminorthreat55]

My favorite part is that the Republicans knew and didn't even take any preventive action. They could've gotten Foley some personal help and they would've been able to stand up by the fact that they made progress whether or not they kept it quiet. They could've said, we were well aware he had problems, but they were personal and we kept this quiet for his sake, we got him the help he needs and he's fine now. But instead they do absolutely nothing except cover it up. They don't even have the decency to help a fellow colleague. That's how fucking weak this is. Nevermind the cover up, they can't even help someone who they've been working with for years.