View Full Version : warrick dunn is OVERrated
obviously in response to the latest espn.com poll.
40 touchdowns in 10 years?!
4 1000 yard rushing season?!
a year with 0 touchdowns?!
a year with 2.8 yards per carry?!
yeah... that dude is underrated. pshaw!
curtis martin has almost twice as many career yards in two extra seasons.
more than twice as many touchdowns.
0 years with 0 touchdowns
0 years with 2.8 yards per carry
and i'm a patriots fan.
argue with me 47% of the earth's population!!!
i'm not even going to mention the fact that tiki barber is second. you didn't just read that. it was never mentioned. because it's too ridiculous to mention.
The Matt Kaufman
10/18/06, 08:57 PM
nfl thread
kthnxbye
mikeford
10/18/06, 08:58 PM
fuck you rookie, dont try to step to doug like that.
oh nfl thread? nope sorry. this is in response to a espn.com poll. do i see an espn.com retarded people poll general thread? no, i don't.
kthnxbye
xbrokendownx
10/18/06, 09:00 PM
ive always liked warrick dunn, but its true. hes nothing spectacular
to be fair, duckett took away a lot of his TDs the past few years, but still
nfl thread
kthnxbye
has anyone ever told you that you kind of look like gheorghe muresan?
mikeford
10/18/06, 09:02 PM
warrick dunn should be talked about for his ridiculous dedication to charity. one of the few rich sports dudes who deserve the money they get cuz they HELP PEOPLE with it.
The Matt Kaufman
10/18/06, 09:02 PM
fuck you rookie, dont try to step to doug like that.
Im guessing you know him?
The Matt Kaufman
10/18/06, 09:02 PM
has anyone ever told you that you kind of look like gheorghe muresan?
uhh no probably because I dont.
Split2nd
10/18/06, 09:02 PM
oh nfl thread? nope sorry. this is in response to a espn.com poll. do i see an espn.com retarded people poll general thread? no, i don't.
kthnxbye
hahaha
I think it's because Martin is more highly regarded than Dunn, making him less underrated.
still life
10/18/06, 09:03 PM
Who rates him so highly? Solid back with a productive career, just not that impressive.
marrost
10/18/06, 09:03 PM
has anyone ever told you that you kind of look like gheorghe muresan?Hahahahaha jesus.
The Matt Kaufman
10/18/06, 09:04 PM
Hahahahaha jesus.
I see slightly where hes coming from but not really
ive always liked warrick dunn, but its true. hes nothing spectacular
to be fair, duckett took away a lot of his TDs the past few years, but still
yeah, i mean, i have no problem with warrick dunn, he seems like a great guy. but curtis martin never needed to bring in some bigger dude to score touchdowns for him. warrick dunn is a great little back and yeah the player who we will not name is a great third down back who got lucky.
but let's not compare them to curtis martin.
Who rates him so highly? Solid back with a productive career, just not that impressive.
espn.com mongoloids
mikeford
10/18/06, 09:06 PM
the most underrated back in the NFL right now is probably ronnie brown cuz he keeps gettin like 90 yards a game with zero help from that awful team.
uhh no probably because I dont.
it really wasn't a personal attack or something, but upon looking at your picture i initially recongnized a similarity and likened it to gheorghe muresan
maybe the scum of the earth were confused because curtis martin is barely in the league anymore.
The Matt Kaufman
10/18/06, 09:08 PM
it really wasn't a personal attack or something, but upon looking at your picture i initially recongnized a similarity and likened it to gheorghe muresan
its all good man lol..sorry I gave u shit in the beginning. I should of realized if u know mikeford ur VIP..
But I kinda see how you would say that..the eyes kinda made it look like him..but Im not 7'7.
mikeford
10/18/06, 09:10 PM
yeah is curtis martin in the league? i thought he retired?
Split2nd
10/18/06, 09:11 PM
Isn't he hurt?
i also read an article in some stupid boston magazine today that rated quarterbacks by arm, accuracy, look, personality and intangibles that rated jake plummer the lowest because he had bad hair. it wasn't so much that the guy was fondling himself over nfl quarterbacks that pissed me off it was that he actually tried to show that he knew about football while he did it. he rated plummer a 3 in arm and accuracy. i guess that's how the broncos made the afc championship last year! or maybe it was because the other teams defenses were too busy giving jake plummer dirty looks over his bad hair. that must have been it. i just wanted to throw that out there.
same guy called j.p. losman "doug flutie without the talent" i'm trying to think of the similarities between flutie and losman.
they're both white
they play quarterback (kind of)
they played for the bills
alright i'm out of things, anyone else?
mikeford
10/18/06, 09:19 PM
wait when did doug flutie have talent to begin with?
canadian talent doesnt count.
wait when did doug flutie have talent to begin with?
canadian talent doesnt count.
yeah, i mean i didn't even really want to start on that.
i really wish he hadn't just rated the 32 qbs starting the season. i would have loved to see what he has to say about joey. should i email him and ask him?
xearlynovemberx
10/18/06, 09:22 PM
I like Dunn alot. Ive liked him since he was in TB
somehow jon kitna got rated above half the qbs in the league
I like Dunn alot. Ive liked him since he was in TB
if someone had asked me how long dunn has been in atl i probably would have said like 2 or 3 years. it boggles my mind he's been in atl for half his career.
xearlynovemberx
10/18/06, 09:26 PM
if someone had asked me how long dunn has been in atl i probably would have said like 2 or 3 years. it boggles my mind he's been in atl for half his career.
Yeah it really dosent feel that long since hes been in the leauge
yeah that too. it disturbs me that the old players in the league are the ones who were rookies when i was really into buying football cards.
mikeford
10/18/06, 09:34 PM
the NFL is that bad dude.
getting back on subject or whatever. if 47% of the sports likingn population are obviously glue sniffers, none of those people who's mother's drank when they were pregnant post on this board? please defend warrick dunn. PLEASE.
Yankees' #1 Fan
10/18/06, 09:51 PM
uhh no probably because I dont.
you really do
bigmike
10/18/06, 10:59 PM
getting back on subject or whatever. if 47% of the sports likingn population are obviously glue sniffers, none of those people who's mother's drank when they were pregnant post on this board? please defend warrick dunn. PLEASE.
why would anyone defend warrick dunn? Outside of this poll i've never heard anyone say that he's underrated at all.
why would anyone defend warrick dunn? Outside of this poll i've never heard anyone say that he's underrated at all.
i really think espn.com must made up their results for these polls. one a couple days ago blew my fucking mind too. for the life of me i can't remember what the question was though.
bigmike
10/18/06, 11:11 PM
i really think espn.com must made up their results for these polls. one a couple days ago blew my fucking mind too. for the life of me i can't remember what the question was though.
Yeah. Basically ESPN just... sucks.
FondestMemory
10/19/06, 04:36 AM
warrick dunn has a tiny tiny mouth.
thejetstolehome
10/19/06, 07:14 AM
what was the poll/where can i find it?
cmart > dunn.
LeftWideOpen
10/19/06, 07:46 AM
warrick dunn should be talked about for his ridiculous dedication to charity. one of the few rich sports dudes who deserve the money they get cuz they HELP PEOPLE with it.
true story. what he's done for charity has been incredible. i wish they'd talk about it more but the only time you will ever see it is if Atlanta is playing MNF and they need time to kill by airing a segment in between the latest T.O news.
wait when did doug flutie have talent to begin with?
canadian talent doesnt count.
eh, i guess a Heisman Trophy, NCAA's all-time passing leader (at the time he left), and being known for completing one of the greatest plays in sports history isn't much. i won't get into the amazing CFL career because I know some of you won't take anything not done in America that seriously.
oh, and he's 5 foot fucking 9 inches. Nobody is saying he was a great NFL QB ...but he isn't famous for that. He's famous for what he accomplished in college. The success is Canada and the brief NFL career was just gravy.
histrionics22
10/19/06, 09:19 AM
eh, i guess a Heisman Trophy, NCAA's all-time passing leader (at the time he left), and being known for completing one of the greatest plays in sports history isn't much. i won't get into the amazing CFL career because I know some of you won't take anything not done in America that seriously.
oh, and he's 5 foot fucking 9 inches. Nobody is saying he was a great NFL QB ...but he isn't famous for that. He's famous for what he accomplished in college. The success is Canada and the brief NFL career was just gravy.
Plus he was continually dicked over in Buffalo.
Scott Weber
10/19/06, 09:27 AM
This is an individual topic/debate and can go outside of the NFL thread.
that being said, I agree, and I also think that Curtis Martin is overrated.
mikeford
10/19/06, 10:10 AM
true story. what he's done for charity has been incredible. i wish they'd talk about it more but the only time you will ever see it is if Atlanta is playing MNF and they need time to kill by airing a segment in between the latest T.O news.
eh, i guess a Heisman Trophy, NCAA's all-time passing leader (at the time he left), and being known for completing one of the greatest plays in sports history isn't much. i won't get into the amazing CFL career because I know some of you won't take anything not done in America that seriously.
oh, and he's 5 foot fucking 9 inches. Nobody is saying he was a great NFL QB ...but he isn't famous for that. He's famous for what he accomplished in college. The success is Canada and the brief NFL career was just gravy.
NCAA records mean nothing to me because people like Ron Dayne hold other ones. Flutie couldnt hack it in the NFL. End of story. You go to BC or whatever so you're gonna defend him but know right now that he helped destroy what that school used to be (which was a respectable place where a blue collar kid from MA could work hard all his life and go to a good school and they would help him pay for it) and turn it into "we dont accept almost anyone from instate and we definitely dont give them any financial aid oh and we don't pay any real estate taxes despite having one of the highest endowments of any college in the state" all cuz of one stupid fuckin hail mary.
LeftWideOpen
10/19/06, 10:50 AM
NCAA records mean nothing to me because people like Ron Dayne hold other ones. Flutie couldnt hack it in the NFL. End of story. You go to BC or whatever so you're gonna defend him but know right now that he helped destroy what that school used to be (which was a respectable place where a blue collar kid from MA could work hard all his life and go to a good school and they would help him pay for it) and turn it into "we dont accept almost anyone from instate and we definitely dont give them any financial aid oh and we don't pay any real estate taxes despite having one of the highest endowments of any college in the state" all cuz of one stupid fuckin hail mary.
welcome to private institutions in the city of boston. you go to one too, so you might want to re-evaluate why exactly you are upset. there is no such thing as easy private school that dishes out financial aid in huge doses in Boston ..it doesnt happen. BC wasn't the first school in Boston to have tough academic standards and charge tuition up the ass and they certainly aren't the only one.
if you want a cheap, unselective school in boston, go to UMass. I did for a year and I worked my ass off so I could get into this private institution that doesnt accept in-state students (woops, i am from MA) and doesnt give financial aid ( 3/4 of my tuition is either in grants or loans). We are quickly becoming one of the best research institutions in the country and Doug Flutie is a big reason why.
there are hundreds, probably thousands, of schools that have toughened admission standards because of athletic successes have enabled them to do so. You are a fool to blame BC as if they were the only one's.
thejetstolehome
10/19/06, 10:55 AM
welcome to private institutions in the city of boston. you go to one too, so you might want to re-evaluate why exactly you are upset. there is no such thing as easy private school that dishes out financial aid in huge doses in Boston ..it doesnt happen. BC wasn't the first school in Boston to have tough academic standards and charge tuition up the ass and they certainly aren't the only one.
if you want a cheap, unselective school in boston, go to UMass. I did for a year and I worked my ass off so I could get into this private institution that doesnt accept in-state students (woops, i am from MA) and doesnt give financial aid ( 3/4 of my tuition is either in grants or loans). We are quickly becoming one of the best research institutions in the country and Doug Flutie is a big reason why.
there are hundreds, probably thousands, of schools that have toughened admission standards because of athletic successes have enabled them to do so. You are a fool to blame BC as if they were the only one's.
uconn's the same way--i mean, it's a public school but the reason it's actually a good school now is because of the success of the basketball team. they made an assload of money 'cause of it and now the state has pumped literally a billion dollars into the school over the last 10 years or so.
before recently, it was just a fucking joke school that every kid from CT would apply to and get into--now it's actually a reputable school. i believe it was recently named top public university in the northeast, too.
FondestMemory
10/19/06, 11:01 AM
This is an individual topic/debate and can go outside of the NFL thread.
that being said, I agree, and I also think that Curtis Martin is overrated.
how is curtis martin overrated? dude's been solid his entire career and is a lock for being a first ballot hall of famer. but even with all that, he's never really been one of the first three or four names that come out of people's mouths when talking about the best rb's in the league.
thejetstolehome
10/19/06, 11:04 AM
how is curtis martin overrated? dude's been solid his entire career and is a lock for being a first ballot hall of famer. but even with all that, he's never really been one of the first three or four names that come out of people's mouths when talking about the best rb's in the league.
agreed.
LeftWideOpen
10/19/06, 11:05 AM
uconn's the same way--i mean, it's a public school but the reason it's actually a good school now is because of the success of the basketball team. they made an assload of money 'cause of it and now the state has pumped literally a billion dollars into the school over the last 10 years or so.
before recently, it was just a fucking joke school that every kid from CT would apply to and get into--now it's actually a reputable school. i believe it was recently named top public university in the northeast, too.
ya, exactly. For a kid from MA ..UConn is a tough school to get into. Just like the University of California is extremely hard to get into. And the University of Florida. And the University of Michigan. And the University of Missouri. And the University of Virginia. And the University of Texas. And the University of Arizona. And so on ..
what do they all have in common? They are rich in large part to excellent athletics and they are selective because everyone wants to go there. It doesnt matter whether it's a private or public school ..if people want to go to your school, the admissions standards are going to be higher.
leftstranded
10/19/06, 11:17 AM
i still like dunn. although most of his yards this year have been against some mediocure teams
Scott Weber
10/19/06, 11:27 AM
how is curtis martin overrated? dude's been solid his entire career and is a lock for being a first ballot hall of famer. but even with all that, he's never really been one of the first three or four names that come out of people's mouths when talking about the best rb's in the league.
Curtis Martin has big numbers because he's given the ball a lot. He has 4 years where he averaged UNDER 4 yards a carry, and he's never averaged over 4.6 (he's only done near that twice). A lot of his yardage comes on meaningless 3rd and long plays, and he often struggles to get big yardage when his team needs it. I've just always thought he gets too much credit from the NY media.
ActorInThisPlay
10/19/06, 12:17 PM
warrick dunn should be talked about for his ridiculous dedication to charity. one of the few rich sports dudes who deserve the money they get cuz they HELP PEOPLE with it.
seriously...
FondestMemory
10/19/06, 12:22 PM
Curtis Martin has big numbers because he's given the ball a lot. He has 4 years where he averaged UNDER 4 yards a carry, and he's never averaged over 4.6 (he's only done near that twice). A lot of his yardage comes on meaningless 3rd and long plays, and he often struggles to get big yardage when his team needs it. I've just always thought he gets too much credit from the NY media.
we'll just agree to disagree then. yards per carry is one of the most overrated stats ever, so i'm not gonna use that as a knock against him. if it's no less than 3ypc, i pay no attention to it. and even if i did, dude has a 4.0 ypc average over his whole career.
i'd also never knock somebody for getting a lot of carries. that's what you want out of your running back. having a consistent force back there that you can keep pounding the ball to does wonders for an offense. especially considering the year with his most carries happened to be the year with his highest ypc.
he's been so consistent and reliable that i feel he deserves all the credit in the world. before last season, there were only four games in 10 years that he didn't play. and if i remember right, at least one or two of those were with playoff position locked up and parcells resting the starters.
and on top of his incredible rushing numbers, he's been a very solid receiver out of the back field, averaging 46 catches a year going into last year.
just looking at his numbers he's an overly impressive back. but unlike many, i think he's actually even more impressive when you look closer.
so again, we'll just agree to disagree.
Scott Weber
10/19/06, 12:26 PM
we'll just agree to disagree then. yards per carry is one of the most overrated stats ever, so i'm not gonna use that as a knock against him. if it's no less than 3ypc, i pay no attention to it. and even if i did, dude has a 4.0 ypc average over his whole career.
i'd also never knock somebody for getting a lot of carries. that's what you want out of your running back. having a consistent force back there that you can keep pounding the ball to does wonders for an offense. especially considering the year with his most carries happened to be the year with his highest ypc.
he's been so consistent and reliable that i feel he deserves all the credit in the world. before last season, there were only four games in 10 years that he didn't play. and if i remember right, at least one or two of those were with playoff position locked up and parcells resting the starters.
and on top of his incredible rushing numbers, he's been a very solid receiver out of the back field, averaging 46 catches a year going into last year.
just looking at his numbers he's an overly impressive back. but unlike many, i think he's actually even more impressive when you look closer.
so again, we'll just agree to disagree.
I think Curtis Martin is a good back, and his consitency is commendable, but is he a top 3 back or deserve 100% of the accolades he gets? Nah. He's just tough as nails and played in a big market his entire career. If he played for Minnesota or Arizona his entire career nobody would talk nearly as much about him because the numbers alone, outside of consistency, are not hugely impressive. Plus, he does have a penchant for not coming up with the yardage in 3rd and short, or at least I've seen him choke a lot.
FondestMemory
10/19/06, 12:32 PM
I think Curtis Martin is a good back, and his consitency is commendable, but is he a top 3 back or deserve 100% of the accolades he gets? Nah. He's just tough as nails and played in a big market his entire career. If he played for Minnesota or Arizona his entire career nobody would talk nearly as much about him because the numbers alone, outside of consistency, are not hugely impressive. Plus, he does have a penchant for not coming up with the yardage in 3rd and short, or at least I've seen him choke a lot.
fair enough. i just disagree about his numbers not being impressive. but i see what you're saying. we just have different opinions.
but, overrated/underated aside, if you have a hall of fame vote, are you putting curtis martin on it first ballot? just curious, cause i've actually heard people say they wouldn't.
Talib Scottie
10/19/06, 12:38 PM
I dont think Curtis Martin is first ballot, but he's had a very good career.
Scott Weber
10/19/06, 12:38 PM
fair enough. i just disagree about his numbers not being impressive. but i see what you're saying. we just have different opinions.
but, overrated/underated aside, if you have a hall of fame vote, are you putting curtis martin on it first ballot? just curious, cause i've actually heard people say they wouldn't.
depends who else is up that year. there's a chance I wouldn't. actually, i know I wouldn't.
FondestMemory
10/19/06, 12:54 PM
that's surprising to me. in his first 11 seasons he put up 14,000 yards, scored 90 rushing tds and put up 10 straight 1,000 yard seasons.
if that's not a first ballot resume, i'm not really sure what is.
still life
10/19/06, 01:03 PM
Curtis Martin has big numbers because he's given the ball a lot. He has 4 years where he averaged UNDER 4 yards a carry, and he's never averaged over 4.6 (he's only done near that twice). A lot of his yardage comes on meaningless 3rd and long plays, and he often struggles to get big yardage when his team needs it. I've just always thought he gets too much credit from the NY media.
You sound like Woody Paige.
By the way, Seattle runs more draws on 3rd and long than any team in football.
Scott Weber
10/19/06, 01:11 PM
You sound like Woody Paige.
By the way, Seattle runs more draws on 3rd and long than any team in football.
Yeah, and 70% of the time it's with Mack Strong, and he picks them up more than any other fullback in the NFL.
still life
10/19/06, 01:35 PM
They're still pretty dumb calls by Holmgren
3-8-DET22(13:20) S.Alexander right end to DET 23 for -1 yards
3-10-DET38(:18) M.Morris left end to DET 33 for 5 yards
3-18-SEA19(11:42) S.Alexander right end to SEA 26 for 7 yards
That's just from the first game this year
Scott Weber
10/19/06, 01:38 PM
They're still pretty dumb calls by Holmgren
3-8-DET22(13:20) S.Alexander right end to DET 23 for -1 yards
3-10-DET38(:18) M.Morris left end to DET 33 for 5 yards
3-18-SEA19(11:42) S.Alexander right end to SEA 26 for 7 yards
That's just from the first game this year
You can keep looking, it's not going to make a difference..I've watched every Seattle game for the past 10 years, so I know what the situations are. The playcalling pisses me off some times, but the past year or two he's been running it with Strong a lot and it's been really successful.
still life
10/19/06, 01:48 PM
I already did the 5 games since I was doing the numbers on Hasselbeck's 3rd down success this year, and there were a ton of these running plays on 3rd downs that most teams would throw on. They convert a few, but overall it's dumb. Especially when you're behind.
something strage happens once a player is deemed "underrated" they start getting talked about enough that they become overrated. this is not the case with curtis martin. curtis martin is still underrated because he rules and has been possibly the most consistently great running back of all time.
ok now we've got a seperate argument. that i will create.
how awesomely good really was ricky watters? and does he deserve to be in the HOF?
Ricky Watters:
-one of only 5 players to avg. 100 total yards per game
-one of the best pass catching running backs evar
-gained over 1500 total yards in 7 consecutive seasons
-super bowl ring
-10,643 rushing yards
-4248 yards receiving
-91 touchdowns
consider the fact that marcus allen is in the hall and he only had three 1000 yard seasons.
is it possible that ricky watters is the most forgotten fucking awesome running back of all time?
yes.
also 5 time pro bowler, yup. 5 time.
mikeford
10/19/06, 02:19 PM
jesus christ. the 1500+ in 7 seasons blows my mind.
i'll bet that if anyone here was asked if ricky watters should be in the hof without seeing those stats, they would say no. but LOOK AT THOSE STATS FUCKIN CHRIST!!!!
LeftWideOpen
10/19/06, 02:22 PM
ok now we've got a seperate argument. that i will create.
how awesomely good really was ricky watters? and does he deserve to be in the HOF?
Ricky Watters:
-one of only 5 players to avg. 100 total yards per game
-one of the best pass catching running backs evar
-gained over 1500 total yards in 7 consecutive seasons
-super bowl ring
-10,643 rushing yards
-4248 yards receiving
-91 touchdowns
consider the fact that marcus allen is in the hall and he only had three 1000 yard seasons.
is it possible that ricky watters is the most forgotten fucking awesome running back of all time?
yes.
totally agree. i've always thought this guy one of the most underappreciated RBs of all time, but that's because he was probably the biggest jerk in the NFL not named Michael Irvin.
i would also go as far as saying that marcus allen is the most overrated running back of all time.
mikeford
10/19/06, 02:27 PM
after looking at his pitiful stats last night i would agree... is ricky watters really not in the hall of fame? those stats are ridiculous.
i'm not sure when he's eligible yet, but i doubt he'll make it
he'll be eligible next year, like i said, i doubt he'll make it. dude has pretty much been forgotten over the past five years.
thejetstolehome
10/19/06, 02:37 PM
wow. go ricky.
Yankees' #1 Fan
10/19/06, 03:04 PM
his spin move in madden for sega genesis was godly
FondestMemory
10/19/06, 04:20 PM
yeah, waters is eligible for the first time this coming year. it'll be an interesting year. i don't think he'll be a first ballot guy, but i think he'll eventually get in.
this year will be fun to see though. eric allen and bruce matthews are eligible, and i think they're both first ballot players.
randall mcdaniel and randall cunningham are also up. i think they're the same as ricky, i think they'll get in, but i don't think they'll get in on the first try.
then there's leon lett, who i'm interested to see what voters think about him. and the terrell davis decision will come up. whether he's worthy with so few seasons.
other than that, i think they take advantage of this year to put in players who have been waiting, like art monk and michael irvin. hopefully at least.
mikeford
10/19/06, 07:26 PM
without looking at cunninghams stats off hand i really dont feel like hes a HOF caliber guy.
randall cunningham definately not a HOFer dude had like 7 full seasons
wow, i said that as a guess and i was 100% correct, i'm better than everyone else in the world
cunningham making the football hof would be like doc gooden making the baseball hof, but without the coke
still life
10/19/06, 07:52 PM
If Thurman Thomas didn't get in his first year, no way in hell Watters would. In fact I don't think Watters will ever get in.
And the 1500 yfs in 7 straight seasons is a nice footnote, but not overly impressive. Walter Payton did it in 10 straight seasons if you exclude the strike-shortened 1982 season that went 9 games (was on pace for 1700+).
Barry Sanders would have easily been 10/10 if he didn't miss 5 games in 1993.
LT is 5/5 on 1600+ yfs seasons
Portis is 4/4 so far
Alexander has done it 5 straight seasons, but injuries may hurt that mark.
yeah, but watters didn't get injured...
histrionics22
10/19/06, 09:58 PM
randall cunningham definately not a HOFer dude had like 7 full seasons
The numbers he put up in those full seasons he played were great. He was an exciting QB and being African-American will help him. I was amazed Warren Moon was the 1st African-American QB to make it. Then I thought about it, and I really couldn't name any other african-american QBs. I think it will help Cunningham.
FondestMemory
10/20/06, 04:31 AM
If Thurman Thomas didn't get in his first year, no way in hell Watters would. In fact I don't think Watters will ever get in.
And the 1500 yfs in 7 straight seasons is a nice footnote, but not overly impressive. Walter Payton did it in 10 straight seasons if you exclude the strike-shortened 1982 season that went 9 games (was on pace for 1700+).
Barry Sanders would have easily been 10/10 if he didn't miss 5 games in 1993.
LT is 5/5 on 1600+ yfs seasons
Portis is 4/4 so far
Alexander has done it 5 straight seasons, but injuries may hurt that mark.
so, because some of the better backs to play the game who all have great shots of making the hall did it, that makes it not impressive?
that's some nice company. that's more than a nice footnote. that's incredibally impressive.
still life
10/20/06, 11:48 AM
so, because some of the better backs to play the game who all have great shots of making the hall did it, that makes it not impressive?
that's some nice company. that's more than a nice footnote. that's incredibally impressive.
It's really just a matter of durability. Some backs can't play consecutive 16 game seasons, so they don't put up the numbers they're capable of. He basically played in the WCO his whole career, so his numbers are a bit inflated from that. Roger Craig is more deserving of the HOF, because he was a big part of those Super Bowl teams, and he was one of the first dual threats at RB.
FondestMemory
10/20/06, 12:00 PM
It's really just a matter of durability. Some backs can't play consecutive 16 game seasons, so they don't put up the numbers they're capable of. He basically played in the WCO his whole career, so his numbers are a bit inflated from that. Roger Craig is more deserving of the HOF, because he was a big part of those Super Bowl teams, and he was one of the first dual threats at RB.
all of that is true. but i don't see how any of that means waters shouldn't be in the hall of fame.
plenty of other backs have played in the west coast style their entire career and didn't put up numbers near what he did. he deserves a spot.
still life
10/20/06, 12:06 PM
It means if Roger Craig can't get in, Watters shouldn't.
how is curtis martin overrated? dude's been solid his entire career and is a lock for being a first ballot hall of famer. but even with all that, he's never really been one of the first three or four names that come out of people's mouths when talking about the best rb's in the league.
dude's been
we'll just agree to disagree then. yards per carry is one of the most overrated stats ever, so i'm not gonna use that as a knock against him. if it's no less than 3ypc, i pay no attention to it. and even if i did, dude has a 4.0 ypc average over his whole career.
i'd also never knock somebody for getting a lot of carries. that's what you want out of your running back. having a consistent force back there that you can keep pounding the ball to does wonders for an offense. especially considering the year with his most carries happened to be the year with his highest ypc.
he's been so consistent and reliable that i feel he deserves all the credit in the world.
Eddie George, anyone?
Then I thought about it, and I really couldn't name any other african-american QBs.
Doug Williams?!?!?
FondestMemory
10/21/06, 02:05 AM
It means if Roger Craig can't get in, Watters shouldn't.
they're both deserving. their numbers are very similar, with waters leading the way in pretty much everything except receiving yards.
if you're talking about whether they deserve to be in, and not whether they will be in, then the answer to both would have to be yes.
If Thurman Thomas didn't get in his first year, no way in hell Watters would. In fact I don't think Watters will ever get in.
And the 1500 yfs in 7 straight seasons is a nice footnote, but not overly impressive. Walter Payton did it in 10 straight seasons if you exclude the strike-shortened 1982 season that went 9 games (was on pace for 1700+).
Barry Sanders would have easily been 10/10 if he didn't miss 5 games in 1993.
LT is 5/5 on 1600+ yfs seasons
Portis is 4/4 so far
Alexander has done it 5 straight seasons, but injuries may hurt that mark.
how is it not that impressive? if you have to compare him to two of the greatest running backs of all time to find a player with better numbers, how is that not that impressive?
yards per carry is one of the most overrated stats ever
i agree, productivity is overrated.
still life
10/21/06, 01:32 PM
how is it not that impressive? if you have to compare him to two of the greatest running backs of all time to find a player with better numbers, how is that not that impressive?
It's just not. A lot of players would be able to say the same thing if not for some injuries.
Barry Sanders rushing for 1500 yards in 4 straight seasons is more impressive than that.
FondestMemory
10/21/06, 01:42 PM
It's just not. A lot of players would be able to say the same thing if not for some injuries.
Barry Sanders rushing for 1500 yards in 4 straight seasons is more impressive than that.
barry sanders 1500 in 4 straight is more impressive, but that doesn't mean waters' mark isn't impressive.
seven seasons with that much productivity is mighty impressive. and yes, a lot of players would be able to say the same thing if they didn't get injured, but they can't. a lot of people would be able to say they had more rush yards than barry sanders, but they can't.
that's just a silly way of trying to discredit somebody's accomplishments.
still life
10/21/06, 02:01 PM
a lot of people would be able to say they had more rush yards than barry sanders, but they can't.
Actually they couldn't, because he was a monster in 10 seasons.
It's just not that impressive. Especially when the SB season, he didn't even have 900 yards rushing, and a pretty weak average for being a WCO back. YFS aren't that hard to pick up, Thurman Thomas led the league in it 4 straight seasons. That's another thing more impressive than this.
FondestMemory
10/21/06, 02:46 PM
jesus christ. nobody said it's the most impressive thing ever, but it is impressive. listing off other things more impressive doesn't make it any less impressive.
and saying that yards from scrimmage aren't that hard to pick up is quite possibly the dumbest thing i've ever heard stated in a football conversation.
seven seasons with that much productivity is mighty impressive. and yes, a lot of players would be able to say the same thing if they didn't get injured, but they can't. a lot of people would be able to say they had more rush yards than barry sanders, but they can't.
that's just a silly way of trying to discredit somebody's accomplishments.
exactly.
still life
10/21/06, 07:22 PM
1500 yfs really isn't shit in today's game. 93-94 yards/game is what you have to average. Any back that catches a fair amount of balls can accomplish that. 10 RBs did it last year, 11 in 2004, 14 in 2003, 15 in 2002, etc.
mikeford
10/21/06, 09:09 PM
"a bunch of running backs wouldve been able to do that if they didnt get hurt"
YEAH BUT THEY DID GET HURT.
they didnt have the durability watters had.
this argument is seriously retarded.
FondestMemory
10/21/06, 11:47 PM
1500 yfs really isn't shit in today's game. 93-94 yards/game is what you have to average. Any back that catches a fair amount of balls can accomplish that. 10 RBs did it last year, 11 in 2004, 14 in 2003, 15 in 2002, etc.
ok.
ricky waters didn't play in 'today's game.' and even with 1500 yfs being so easy to get, how many players in 'today's game' have done it seven consecutive seasons.
still life
10/21/06, 11:47 PM
Durability? The guy was a wimpy WCO back. Maybe he would have broke down a few times if he had to pound the ball like other backs did.
No one's putting Watters in the HOF. Ever.
still life
10/21/06, 11:48 PM
ok.
ricky waters didn't play in 'today's game.' and even with 1500 yfs being so easy to get, how many players in 'today's game' have done it seven consecutive seasons.
He played a good chunk of his career after the mid-90's, when scoring and offense went up.
A lot of the guys that can do it haven't played 7 seasons yet. And all of these guys like LT, Portis, Alexander, Tiki, etc. are better RB's.
FondestMemory
10/21/06, 11:50 PM
Durability? The guy was a wimpy WCO back. Maybe he would have broke down a few times if he had to pound the ball like other backs did.
No one's putting Watters in the HOF. Ever.
so, because he only played in an offense that fit him perfectly and only did what was asked of him, he wasn't a good back?
he was more than productive. consistently.
FondestMemory
10/21/06, 11:53 PM
He played a good chunk of his career after the mid-90's, when scoring and offense went up.
A lot of the guys that can do it haven't played 7 seasons yet. And all of these guys like LT, Portis, Alexander, Tiki, etc. are better RB's.
so, when lt, portis and alexander do it, it's still not an impressive accomplishment?
still life
10/21/06, 11:55 PM
I think a lot of guys could have did the same things he did in that 49ers offense with Young and Rice. His rushing numbers aren't that impressive for his time there.
And every year he was in Philly, Charlie Garner had a much better YPC as their 2nd back.
still life
10/21/06, 11:56 PM
so, when lt, portis and alexander do it, it's still not an impressive accomplishment?
Of course not, most of those guys have had multiple 1500 yd rushing seasons, let alone yfs. The bar is raised.
still life
10/22/06, 12:08 AM
Watters isn't even that impressive of a receiver. Sure he had a better career of it than many backs to play the game, but he's not one of the best ever. He only had two seasons with 500+ receiving yds
Faulk
Allen
Larry Centers
Tiki
Thurman Thomas
Walker
Craig
LT
Priest (in his prime)
Probably will end up adding Reggie Bush to the list as long as Brees is the QB
mikeford
10/22/06, 05:32 AM
I think a lot of guys could have did the same things he did in that 49ers offense with Young and Rice.
wrong
wrong
wrong
never talk again.
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