attn: Americans

[seans seatbelt]

If you have some free time, watch this. It's important, and it concerns you. I'm sure many of you have already seen or heard about it. Do something about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jGLgkn5HSo

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

wow. fuck bush.

[halfamile]

please tell me in six words or less why I should care

[OisNOTdead87]

Do something about it.
There's not much we can do at this point.

please tell me in six words or less why I should care
Because you live in U.S.

[TxRepresent]

ok yeah seriously do you think anyone is going to do anything about it...the answer is no..no one will do anything about it..just complain like they always do.

[justinevans]

wow. fuck bush.

Bush didn't make the law moron.

[justinevans]

I have to think this law will be shot down by the supreme court.

or atleast hope.

[bigmike]

ok yeah seriously do you think anyone is going to do anything about it...the answer is no..no one will do anything about it..just complain like they always do.
Much like how you're complaining about the complainers not doing anything.

Interesting.

[OisNOTdead87]

I have to think this law will be shot down by the supreme court.

or atleast hope.

I don't know man, the supreme court has been doing some sketch ball things since this administration entered office.

[EnderDove]

Lou Dobbs for President.

[Justin_stacy]

I don't know man, the supreme court has been doing some sketch ball things since this administration entered office.

Tthe court has a long history of doing "sketch ball" things.....such as roe v wade. Its no different with this administration.

[richter915]

Much like how you're complaining about the complainers not doing anything.

Interesting.
so we sit in silence and just take it ignorantly...that's the american way.

[boysdontcry17]

the decline of the american empire is imminent

[Justin_stacy]

so we sit in silence and just take it ignorantly...that's the american way.

Well if we kept judges interpreters rather then legislators, you wouldn't have to worry....

Still, instead of jumping on the bandwagon of another ignorant liberal bush conspiracy attempt, it might be wise to look at how the court has ruled recently on the issue of Habeas Corpus. Hint in this instance it doesn't really back up the "sketch ball" attack.

[xvszero]

Tthe court has a long history of doing "sketch ball" things.....such as roe v wade. Its no different with this administration.

Most people probably don't realize how sketchy Roe v Wade was, not to mention that even the judges who supported it did so on the understanding that it WOULD be revisited once science could tell us more about the fetus. The ruling was not that women had a right to abortion, but that the evidence was not clear enough about what was going on in the fetal process to BAR the right to have an abortion... at that time.

Science can now tell us more about the fetus... yet even with supposed right-wing Bush in office Roe v Wade won't be revisited.

On a side note one of the major pro-abortion witnesses in that case is now a hugely outspoken pro-lifer who said she was used to get it passed.

[x togepi x]

Bush didn't make the law moron.

you're right...he just signed it and urged congress to pass it.

but still, every senator and representative that voted for it is equally to blame. watching the debate of this on c-span pissed me off more than anything else in the past 5 years.

i really can't believe that this doesn't have sunset provisions...even the patriot act had sunset provisions.

[justinevans]

you're right...he just signed it and urged congress to pass it.

but still, every senator and representative that voted for it is equally to blame. watching the debate of this on c-span pissed me off more than anything else in the past 5 years.

i really can't believe that this doesn't have sunset provisions...even the patriot act had sunset provisions.

he doesn't sign it until congress passes it. It is ridiculous though. I got in a pretty heated argument with my dad over it.

[OisNOTdead87]

he doesn't sign it until congress passes it. It is ridiculous though. I got in a pretty heated argument with my dad over it.

My father is the same way. I love him dearly and he isn't a bad person, but his views are fucked.

He tries to tell me daily that what we are doing is completely right, and that we need to be MORE aggressive with the middle east.

[justinevans]

My father is the same way. I love him dearly and he isn't a bad person, but his views are fucked.

He tries to tell me daily that what we are doing is completely right, and that we need to be MORE aggressive with the middle east.

Well my dad isn't that far fetched, but he is a Republican and he meets with alot of Republican officials and there are things he knows about that some of the public doesn't know necessarily.

I am a fiscal republican...

my dad doesn't necessarily agree with Iraq, but he does Afghanistan.

[rocktometal]

Well my dad isn't that far fetched, but he is a Republican and he meets with alot of Republican officials and there are things he knows about that some of the public doesn't know necessarily.

I am a fiscal republican...

my dad doesn't necessarily agree with Iraq, but he does Afghanistan.

everyone agrees on afghanistan-easy wars are always fun. although truth be told afghanistan isn't really the picnic it sometimes appears to be.

[thejetstolehome]

everyone agrees on afghanistan-easy wars are always fun. although truth be told afghanistan isn't really the picnic it sometimes appears to be.

because not enough people are there. they ended up in iraq instead and now we have no control in afghanistan outside of kabul.

[justinevans]

everyone agrees on afghanistan-easy wars are always fun. although truth be told afghanistan isn't really the picnic it sometimes appears to be.

especially when the taliban is coming back.

he doesn't necessarily agree with Iraq, but he doesn't agree going in there without an exit strategy. Both my father and grandfather served so, they've been in those type of situations.

[rocktometal]

because not enough people are there. they ended up in iraq instead and now we have no control in afghanistan outside of kabul.

problem with americans:we are afraid to sacrafice anything for victory

[rocktometal]

especially when the taliban is coming back.

he doesn't necessarily agree with Iraq, but he doesn't agree going in there without an exit strategy. Both my father and grandfather served so, they've been in those type of situations.

2nd problem with americans: too many people have no idea what war or the military is about, so they watch the tv and are horrified. we need more veterans and military people to speek out, like your father and grandfather

[justinevans]

2nd problem with americans: too many people have no idea what war or the military is about, so they watch the tv and are horrified. we need more veterans and military people to speek out, like your father and grandfather

well my dad's in local government so.

The thing is, this shit in the middle east has been brewing. Yes it has gone on for years, but as technology advances and the have-nots realize what the haves have, it is a big threat and it is a problem. And it sucks that the people there cannot stand up for themselves in a rational manner. There is no rationality there.

[rocktometal]

well my dad's in local government so.

The thing is, this shit in the middle east has been brewing. Yes it has gone on for years, but as technology advances and the have-nots realize what the haves have, it is a big threat and it is a problem. And it sucks that the people there cannot stand up for themselves in a rational manner. There is no rationality there.

yes the world has a strange inability to stand up for itself. its amazing we did it when you think about it.

[thejetstolehome]

2nd problem with americans: too many people have no idea what war or the military is about, so they watch the tv and are horrified. we need more veterans and military people to speek out, like your father and grandfather

aren't a lot of generals coming out against the war now?

[justinevans]

yes the world has a strange inability to stand up for itself. its amazing we did it when you think about it.

and thats the one of the few things I like about Bush. He acted instead of reacted.

[rocktometal]

and thats the one of the few things I like about Bush. He acted instead of reacted.

interesting thought. ive heard that argument before though and i am not totally sure id agree

[thejetstolehome]

interesting thought. ive heard that argument before though and i am not totally sure id agree

it's because a doctrine of preemption is such a shaky thing.

[Slaur]

please tell me in six words or less why I should care

Because the world is ending.

[rocktometal]

it's because a doctrine of preemption is such a shaky thing.

and because there is always someone who will take it a step further

[justinevans]

it's because a doctrine of preemption is such a shaky thing.

I agree, but the approval rating of the war has gone done while it went on. If there was an exit strategy, there would be more people that continued to support it.

[justinevans]

Because the world is ending.

jetstolehome, see what I mean

[rocktometal]

I agree, but the approval rating of the war has gone done while it went on. If there was an exit strategy, there would be more people that continued to support it.

what we needed was a better post invasion plan, but i agree bush really had no post war plan that is why it has desinagrated so fast

[justinevans]

what we needed was a better post invasion plan, but i agree bush really had no post war plan that is why it has desinagrated so fast

The problem that has come with our government now also that everyone seems to be a fucking radical. Not many people are really middle of the road anymore...and for some reason they feel they have to align themselves that way. Everyone is a robot.

[rocktometal]

The problem that has come with our government now also that everyone seems to be a fucking radical. Not many people are really middle of the road anymore...and for some reason they feel they have to align themselves that way. Everyone is a robot.

id agree. too many people who beleif that to admit inaccuracy would be to show weakness. people need to educate themselves. ignorance is a disease twice as deadly as cancer.

[thejetstolehome]

I agree, but the approval rating of the war has gone done while it went on. If there was an exit strategy, there would be more people that continued to support it.

yea. i was torn in 03 as to whether or not this was the right thing to do. i just think the longer we stay there, the less likely it is that the iraqi government will be able to support itself. i'm not saying that to pull the troops out right now--that would just make it a terrible, terrible situation that's even worse than it is now.

jetstolehome, see what I mean

yea. stupid people...

[rocktometal]

yea. i was torn in 03 as to whether or not this was the right thing to do. i just think the longer we stay there, the less likely it is that the iraqi government will be able to support itself. i'm not saying that to pull the troops out right now--that would just make it a terrible, terrible situation that's even worse than it is now.


i agree. the key is to look at things seriously and bring in people who know what the situation is in iraq and have them come up with a few viable plans to get this war on track. we can still win this war

[thejetstolehome]

i agree. the key is to look at things seriously and bring in people who know what the situation is in iraq and have them come up with a few viable plans to get this war on track. we can still win this war

well, we had someone like that until bush decided to fire Richard Clarke. that's easily the worst personell decision he made in his 2 terms.

[rocktometal]

even worse then choosing rumsfield as sec of def. or letting powell go?

[justinevans]

even worse then choosing rumsfield as sec of def. or letting powell go?

Powell was going to leave no matter what.

[thejetstolehome]

even worse then choosing rumsfield as sec of def. or letting powell go?

well, powell was gonna leave anyway i think. rumsfeld..ugh. but clarke is probably the best guy when it comes to terrorism/counter terrorism.

i've also heard him say on multiple occasians, "real time w/bill maher," "the daily show," and some other talk show he was on--i love hearing him speak, that right after 9/11, all rummy and co. wanted him to do was find some way to link it to iraq though no link existed.

i think if he made a run for president, he would win.

[rocktometal]

Powell was going to leave no matter what.

powell decided to leave after bush disregarded powell's opinions, and after the relationship between rumsfeld and powell fell apart

[rocktometal]

well, powell was gonna leave anyway i think. rumsfeld..ugh. but clarke is probably the best guy when it comes to terrorism/counter terrorism.

i've also heard him say on multiple occasians, "real time w/bill maher," "the daily show," and some other talk show he was on--i love hearing him speak, that right after 9/11, all rummy and co. wanted him to do was find some way to link it to iraq though no link existed.

i think if he made a run for president, he would win.

i dont know, but he would be better then any shitters the dems or reps are gonna put out there. hilary vs. condelezza, anyone?

[rocktometal]

rumsfeld is the worst sec. of defence ever, 2nd place goes to the clinton guy, both are mega losers.....les aspin that's his name

[halfamile]

Because you live in U.S.

yep, and I'm taking advantage of my right to not give a shit

[thejetstolehome]

yep, and I'm taking advantage of my right to not give a shit

people that take advantage of their "right to not give a shit" are the reason that nothing changes in this country.

[rocktometal]

people that take advantage of their "right to not give a shit" are the reason that nothing changes in this country.

yep

[justinevans]

people that take advantage of their "right to not give a shit" are the reason that nothing changes in this country.

he's from Cleveland...it is a joke.

[rocktometal]

ah....missed that one

[halfamile]

he's from Cleveland...it is a joke.

haha ummm, ok

I give a shit, just not about this

[Justin_stacy]

people that take advantage of their "right to not give a shit" are the reason that nothing changes in this country.

they are also the reason why this nation is so stable.

[thejetstolehome]

they are also the reason why this nation is so stable.

they're also the reason we have such a low voter turnout every election.

that could be due to a number of things, though.

[justinevans]

they're also the reason we have such a low voter turnout every election.

that could be due to a number of things, though.

or the fact that their options blow.

[thejetstolehome]

or the fact that their options blow.

which is one of those "other reasons."

[Justin_stacy]

which is one of those "other reasons."

very true.

[rocktometal]

i think people are just to lazy to do the neccessary work to vote respnosably

[seans seatbelt]

they are also the reason why this nation is so stable.

how do you figure it's stable, and further, how would that make it stable?

[Justin_stacy]

how do you figure it's stable, and further, how would that make it stable?


Are you kidding me, how do you figure this country isn't stable? Example?

[justinevans]

Are you kidding me, how do you figure this country isn't stable? Example?

Um we're not in a civil war? For a country that is stability.

that was to the other guy.

[seans seatbelt]

you're fighting wars with at least 2 countries. 90% of the world hates you.

[Justin_stacy]

War alone nor foreign public opinion dictates a nation’s stability. Economy, government, civil unrest, jobs, wealth/poverty etc, etc...dictates stability. What some ignorant shit hole of a nation like France thinks of us doesn't play into the matter. Nor does a war unless it leads too or begins to drain on one of the above listed items, and Iraq has not.