PDA

View Full Version : Hit Songs Reduced To Mathematics


Rohan Kohli
10/20/06, 09:31 PM
A New York-based company called Platinum Blue (http://www.platinumblueinc.com/) has come up with a mathematical formula which they claim can predict the hit potential of an album or a song; below is an excerpt from a recent New Yorker article (http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/061016fa_fact6):
McCready is in his thirties, baldish and laconic, with rectangular hipster glasses. His offices are in a large, open room, with a row of windows looking east, across the rooftops of downtown Manhattan. In the middle of the room is a conference table, and one morning recently McCready sat down and opened his laptop to demonstrate the Platinum Blue technology. On his screen was a cluster of thousands of white dots, resembling a cloud. This was a “map” of the songs his group had run through its software: each dot represented a single song, and each song was positioned in the cloud according to its particular mathematical signature. “You could have one piano sonata by Beethoven at this end and another one here,” McCready said, pointing at the opposite end, “as long as they have completely different chord progressions and completely different melodic structures.”

McCready then hit a button on his computer, which had the effect of eliminating all the songs that had not made the Billboard Top 30 in the past five years. The screen went from an undifferentiated cloud to sixty discrete clusters. This is what the universe of hit songs from the past five years looks like structurally; hits come out of a small, predictable, and highly conserved set of mathematical patterns. “We take a new CD far in advance of its release date,” McCready said. “We analyze all twelve tracks. Then we overlay them on top of the already existing hit clusters, and what we can tell a record company is which of those songs conform to the mathematical pattern of past hits. Now, that doesn’t mean that they will be hits. But what we are saying is that, almost certainly, songs that fall outside these clusters will not be hits—regardless of how much they sound and feel like hit songs, and regardless of how positive your call-out research or focus-group research is.” Four years ago, when McCready was working with a similar version of the program at a firm in Barcelona, he ran thirty just-released albums, chosen at random, through his system. One stood out. The computer said that nine of the fourteen songs on the album had clear hit potential—which was unheard of. Nobody in his group knew much about the artist or had even listened to the record before, but the numbers said the album was going to be big, and McCready and his crew were of the belief that numbers do not lie. “Right around that time, a local newspaper came by and asked us what we were doing,” McCready said. “We explained the hit-prediction thing, and that we were really turned on to a record by this artist called Norah Jones.” The record was “Come Away with Me.” It went on to sell twenty million copies and win eight Grammy awards.

The strength of McCready’s analysis is its precision. This past spring, for instance, he analyzed “Crazy,” by Gnarls Barkley. The computer calculated, first of all, the song’s Hit Grade—that is, how close it was to the center of any of those sixty hit clusters. Its Hit Grade was 755, on a scale where anything above 700 is exceptional. The computer also found that “Crazy” belonged to the same hit cluster as Dido’s “Thank You,” James Blunt’s “You’re Beautiful,” and Ashanti’s “Baby,” as well as older hits like “Let Me Be There,” by Olivia Newton-John, and “One Sweet Day,” by Mariah Carey, so that listeners who liked any of those songs would probably like “Crazy,” too. Finally, the computer gave “Crazy” a Periodicity Grade—which refers to the fact that, at any given time, only twelve to fifteen hit clusters are “active,” because from month to month the particular mathematical patterns that excite music listeners will shift around. “Crazy” ’s periodicity score was 658—which suggested a very good fit with current tastes. The data said, in other words, that “Crazy” was almost certainly going to be huge—and, sure enough, it was.

If “Crazy” hadn’t scored so high, though, the Platinum Blue people would have given the song’s producers broad suggestions for fixing it. McCready said, “We can tell a producer, ‘These are the elements that seem to be pushing your song into the hit cluster. These are the variables that are pulling your song away from the hit cluster. The problem seems to be in your bass line.’ And the producer will make a bunch of mixes, where they do something different with the bass lines—increase the decibel level, or muddy it up. Then they come back to us. And we say, ‘Whatever you were doing with mix No. 3, do a little bit more of that and you’ll be back inside the hit cluster.’ ”

McCready stressed that his system didn’t take the art out of hit-making. Someone still had to figure out what to do with mix No. 3, and it was entirely possible that whatever needed to be done to put the song in the hit cluster wouldn’t work, because it would make the song sound wrong—and in order to be a hit a song had to sound right. Still, for the first time you wouldn’t be guessing about what needed to be done. You would know. And what you needed to know in order to fix the song was much simpler than anyone would have thought. McCready didn’t care about who the artist was, or the cleverness of the lyrics. He didn’t even have a way of feeding lyrics into his computer. He cared only about a song’s underlying mathematical structure. “If you go back to the popular melodies written by Beethoven and Mozart three hundred years ago,” he went on, “they conform to the same mathematical patterns that we are looking at today. What sounded like a beautiful melody to them sounds like a beautiful melody to us. What has changed is simply that we have come up with new styles and new instruments. Our brains are wired in a way—we assume—that keeps us coming back, again and again, to the same answers, the same pleasure centers.” He had sales data and Top 30 lists and deconvolution software, and it seemed to him that if you put them together you had an objective way of measuring something like beauty. “We think we’ve figured out how the brain works regarding musical taste,” McCready said.

Click here (http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/061016fa_fact6) to read the full article.
Via Coolfer (http://www.coolfer.com)

RockVocalPower
10/20/06, 09:34 PM
Wow. I guess someone beat Rivers to it.

Rohan Kohli
10/20/06, 09:50 PM
$10 to get a score ... www.platinumblueinc.com ... - I'm gonna keep all my loose change for a while and when I get $10 worth, I'm gonna try it out

theoldviolence
10/20/06, 09:53 PM
I wonder what this program would give if they ran Brand New's new album.

preppyak
10/20/06, 10:05 PM
I wonder what this program would give if they ran Brand New's new album.
I'd rather see it run on Deja...to see if that would have been predicted for them

Likewise with something like FOB

$10 to get a score ... www.platinumblueinc.com (http://www.platinumblueinc.com) ... - I'm gonna keep all my loose change for a while and when I get $10 worth, I'm gonna try it out
I'd like to try something fairly obscure outside the usual realm of hits, just to try it out.

Jamie Pham
10/20/06, 10:12 PM
wow

whyte39
10/20/06, 10:20 PM
scary

Gunwalls
10/20/06, 10:22 PM
god damn math, like major labels needed another excuse to ruin albums with lots of potential.

saysmydoctor
10/20/06, 10:30 PM
How ridiculus. Rohan, you find the weirdest shit.

americanmonk1
10/20/06, 10:32 PM
Limp Bizkit, Panic at the Disco, the Backstreet Boys and Nirvana all have something in common. The "styles" might have changed, but the song templates/equations have stayed --for the most part-- the same.

TheEndofGravity
10/20/06, 10:36 PM
i wonder how p!atd would do

TheEndofGravity
10/20/06, 10:36 PM
beat me 2 it haha

Jason Tate
10/20/06, 10:38 PM
Discussed in "The Future of Music" -- seriously, buy the book.

albatrossxivy
10/20/06, 10:40 PM
bullll shitttt

southline
10/20/06, 10:48 PM
numbers cant predict human emotion. like how people cling to certain songs and lyrics. it might work for the generic T-progression verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus songs, but still, i think this isnt to be taken seriously.

TheEndofGravity
10/20/06, 10:52 PM
numbers cant predict human emotion. like how people cling to certain songs and lyrics. it might work for the generic T-progression verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus songs, but still, i think this isnt to be taken seriously.

your gunna need some examples...

[Mike]
10/20/06, 10:58 PM
Discussed in "The Future of Music" -- seriously, buy the book.

Yep, all music fans should definitely read this, can't suggest it enough.

And I recall hearing about this sort of program over a year ago, though I don't think you could submit songs to it at that time.

neo506
10/21/06, 12:10 AM
numbers cant predict human emotion. like how people cling to certain songs and lyrics. it might work for the generic T-progression verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus songs, but still, i think this isnt to be taken seriously.Maybe its just me but I hear very little emotion on the radio :shrug:

southline
10/21/06, 12:28 AM
Maybe its just me but I hear very little emotion on the radio :shrug:

good point. i dont know, i just get steamed when people try to simplify music into percentages and equations. i feel that it defeats the whole purpose of music, if every "hit song" is just going to make you feel the same way.

PlusDanny
10/21/06, 12:29 AM
Songs that end with choruses rarely really stick with me. I think that's one reason I love Tell All Your Friends. They didn't end any of those songs with the chorus and it makes you want to finish the songs and hear the album all the way through.

thewebguy
10/21/06, 01:24 AM
makes sense, ever notice how most hit songs sound the same?

goughjustin
10/21/06, 04:06 AM
music theory = math.
math is predictable and the same every time....

great article...I wanna see more stuff like this on here and less about what PR person brandon flowers/NME is curently blowing

TechRocker
10/21/06, 08:19 AM
Look at how many of the bands the AP crowd here loves that don't get airtime. There's a difference between great music and "radio-friendly" stuff, not to say there's anything wrong with being radio-friendly. I'm sure the majority of bands aren't going to let some math equation dictate their songwriting, and even of those who do use this, it'll be more of a guide than a formula. Now, if the computer starts composing hit music on it's own...then we have a problem. :-P

TalentShow88'
10/21/06, 08:54 AM
god damn math, like major labels needed another excuse to ruin albums with lots of potential.

exactly.
This is bogus, no creditable producer is going to re-mix a song just because a computer foretold that it wasnt going to be a "hit".

Well, maybe if Diddy knew about this in advance, his album might of been good.
But there are no computer programs to check for awful dance moves.
Someone should look into that and help him out.

werealldudes19
10/21/06, 09:40 AM
this is interesting

rpk004
10/21/06, 10:17 AM
intriguing. i'm a math major/minor so i guess this might be a little more appealing for me, but it makes a lot of sense. it's not just numbers--there's a little science involved, like why one likes those progressions, etc etc. crazy shit though.

B_0202
10/21/06, 11:48 AM
wow, very interesting

Chris Fallon
10/21/06, 12:45 PM
Hmmm, wow. Veddy inteeresting.

alcoholandirony
10/21/06, 12:49 PM
Discussed in "The Future of Music" -- seriously, buy the book.

is that the "Digital Revolution" book? I started reading it and it was interesting, but it read a lot like a text book. I couldn't finish it.

crittn10
10/21/06, 01:43 PM
numbers cant predict human emotion. like how people cling to certain songs and lyrics. it might work for the generic T-progression verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus songs, but still, i think this isnt to be taken seriously.

The applications for mathematics are limitless. Without math, you would not be able to make any secure transactions over the internet. How would you be able to order anything on the internet without public key encryption. Discrete Mathematics are also used to break codes, it essentially looks for patterns. A similar process is also used in this particular application. It has found patterns in songs that have been popular. I don't think this has anything to do with lyrics, so your argument really isn't valid.
I think this program has great potential for predicting the popularity of a song. It is not claiming that it can predict human emotion, only what has been found to sound appealing to the general population.

dontfront
10/21/06, 07:29 PM
The applications for mathematics are limitless. Without math, you would not be able to make any secure transactions over the internet. How would you be able to order anything on the internet without public key encryption. Discrete Mathematics are also used to break codes, it essentially looks for patterns. A similar process is also used in this particular application. It has found patterns in songs that have been popular. I don't think this has anything to do with lyrics, so your argument really isn't valid.
I think this program has great potential for predicting the popularity of a song. It is not claiming that it can predict human emotion, only what has been found to sound appealing to the general population.

exactly. and as the article says, the program gives a "periodicity grade... because from month to month the particular mathematical patterns that excite music listeners will shift around."

This is really cool and really scary at the same time haha. I think this is just a part of musical evolution. I don't wanna say "omg this is gonna destroy everything" because this could open doors to other avenues etc... Its the weirdest thing to think about something like a Major triad compared to a Minor Triad. The difference is so suddle (either 4 half steps or 3 half steps between 1 and 3) yet what they represent to us are two totally different "emotions". Who came up with the idea that a Major chord would always represe a "happy/fun" sounding tune or a Minor chord a "sad/gloomy" type of song? It can't be argued that someone just made that up. Its a feeling that basically all humans share. It would be insane to to say that someone came up with it because that person would have had to have a feeling towards the chord in the first place. Its kinda like a faith thing (like a religion almost)... The frequencies between these chords are mathematically measurable and so are chord progressions, melodic patterns, meter and basically all aspects of the sonic and rythmic qualities. Damn I'm typing too much now... Anyways, who ever said "Music = Math" is totally right (oh thats the title too hah).

I'd like to get my hands on this program haha. Like the article said, its not going to take away from "the art of hit making", but who knows... this could go in so many directions its wild. Someone still has to make the beginning, the middle and the end of the song. And without any knowledge or history in music one would have a hard time doing that with just a piano and this program.

letitbe
10/21/06, 07:55 PM
Something just seems wrong about that...

TalentShow88'
10/21/06, 08:25 PM
good point. i dont know, i just get steamed when people try to simplify music into percentages and equations.

do you know alot of people that simplify music into precentages and equations or somthing.? Do you get steamed often over the subject? This is the first time I've ever heard of such a thing...dont know about you.

dontfront
10/21/06, 08:30 PM
do you know alot of people that simplify music into precentages and equations or somthing.? Do you get steamed often over the subject? This is the first time I've ever heard of such a thing...dont know about you.

haah

shtjames
10/21/06, 10:35 PM
gnarly

hollywoodending
10/22/06, 02:04 PM
if you think about it, its not really pure "math."

what it does is it analyzes the frequency, which is just sound to determine the tempo, melody, harmony, brilliance, etc. even though it is cold and calculated, it still analyzes real sound. It's not like its just doing random equations, it really is analyzing the music. but, yeah, i do agree that real artists write beautiful music without worrying about them becoming "hits."

j011y
10/23/06, 07:06 AM
this is good, i like this kinda maths=music theory stuff, but yeah....just coz a song isnt a 'hit' doesnt mean its not good


wonder how this program would work if you tested radioheads 'Kid A' or something through it, haha prolly come up with 0.07% hit chance or however things are rated, ha ha

andysurvive
10/31/06, 07:23 AM
I just got my report back. Wanted to try it out for fun and see what it thought of one of my bands songs. Came back as the highest hit grade with 744 points, 10 points under Gnarls Barkleys "Crazy". Haha. We'll see....

www.myspace.com/adhd

The song "Our Time"