Man Made Big Bang

[DrStrong]

http://discovermagazine.com/2007/feb/cover

The largest collective of scientists in history are all working on a project to simulate the Big Bang. They are trying to create the hypothetical Higgs boson particle (God Particle), which was speculated to existed milliseconds after the Big Bang.

There have been theories recently in which people believe that a previous human race could have cause the Big Bang, basically causing everything to start over again from nothing.

Pretty interesting, but everything is only speculation.

[ayerock]

http://liberalvaluesblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/big-bang-theory-reduzido.jpg

[DanTGD]

So they think humans could have caused a Big Bang that destroyed the entire universe?

[DrStrong]

So they think humans could have caused a Big Bang that destroyed the entire universe?

Since the Big Bang theory is only speculation, there is also theories that involve a previous species, having technology that we have today, or possibly more advanced. Something may have happened that created a "big bang".

[caveBEAR]

Since the Big Bang theory is only speculation, there is also theories that involve a previous species, having technology that we have today, or possibly more advanced. Something may have happened that created a "big bang".

If this is true, and we all become 'gods' to the lesser beings that are spun out of our Big Bang, I want to be their version of a Norse god. I'd love to be made into a superhero movie in about 3.5 billion years.

[DrStrong]

If this is true, and we all become 'gods' to the lesser beings that are spun out of our Big Bang, I want to be their version of a Norse god. I'd love to be made into a superhero movie in about 3.5 billion years.

Its a crazy concept to wrap your head around. I guess not totally out of the question, especially if you go for evolution over religion. Since we're experimenting a machine that could theoretically create a "big bang", what says it doesnt actually happen?

Also, have you seen this?

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/07/oil_spill_in_dalian_china.html

[the seventeenth]

So this is how the world will end in 2012?
zing!

[JordanBuell]

crazy to think that we are at this point in our human history that we could create something like a big bang.

[DrStrong]

crazy to think that we are at this point in our human history that we could create something like a big bang.

Thats the argument, who says humans, or a species before us couldnt have done this already? On other planets, in some other part of the universe.

[JordanBuell]

Thats the argument, who says humans, or a species before us couldnt have done this already? On other planets, in some other part of the universe.

makes sense. im sure we are not the most advanced race to have ever lived. just kind of crazy to think about.

[DrStrong]

makes sense. im sure we are not the most advanced race to have ever lived. just kind of crazy to think about.

Its even crazier to think that it was humans that caused the last known Big Bang.

[caveBEAR]

Also, have you seen this?

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/07/oil_spill_in_dalian_china.html

China's trying to emulate Western culture again, how cute.

At least there will be some 'erase people' accountability over there.

Its even crazier to think that it was humans that caused the last known Big Bang.

I think even if there was a decent chance that another species created the 'Big Bang' as we know it, the odds that it was 'humans' would be zilch. I assume if someone takes the Big Bang to be fact, they also take evolution to be fact, and therefore the odds that humans evolved again after billions of years in an entirely different set of circumstances is damn near impossible.


All interesting food for though, however.

[DrStrong]

China's trying to emulate Western culture again, how cute.

At least there will be some 'erase people' accountability over there.



I think even if there was a decent chance that another species created the 'Big Bang' as we know it, the odds that it was 'humans' would be zilch. I assume if someone takes the Big Bang to be fact, they also take evolution to be fact, and therefore the odds that humans evolved again after billions of years in an entirely different set of circumstances is damn near impossible.


All interesting food for though, however.

True, very doubtful.

I dont want to believe in the 2012 thing, but so many crazy things are happening right now. There was an earthquake in the midwest recently, some place that hasnt had one for years and years. I'm kind of leaning towards humanity ending in the next couple of years, the signs are all there.

[Mitch]

I don't think the "signs are all there" at all.

[tkamB]

That article was written 3 years ago, before the LHC, which is bigger than the RHIC mentioned in the article. We still aren't that close to even understanding the Big Bang, or even knowing if thats truly how the universe was created (M-theory would like a word) let alone actually creating a universe in a lab.

[Mitch]

I don't think the "signs are all there" at all.

Although this (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0710/40109.html) certainly doesn't help.

[caveBEAR]

Although this (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0710/40109.html) certainly doesn't help.

I've always found it odd that the very people who freak out about the LHC generally don't believe in climate change. If something went wrong with the LHC (in the way they imagine) one minute you'd be here, then - nada. You wouldn't even notice you'd been vaporized; however, with the changes that would occur under climate change, there would be a very long, very agonizing downturn for humans until everything fell apart.

Me? I'd rather go out by LHC than the worst case scenario in Al Gore's head.

[JordanBuell]

True, very doubtful.

I dont want to believe in the 2012 thing, but so many crazy things are happening right now. There was an earthquake in the midwest recently, some place that hasnt had one for years and years. I'm kind of leaning towards humanity ending in the next couple of years, the signs are all there.

ehh. im going to have to disagree. i mean you look at the cold war era, that was a time that the signs were pointing to the end of man kind. what do we have now? yeah sure there are earthquakes and hurricanes but those have been around forever and it is only recently (in perspective) that humans have started documenting the natural disasters, what is to say that this doesnt happen every 600 years? if it hasnt wiped out the human race for the hundreds of thousands of years that we have been alive then i think we stand a pretty strong chance of at least making it past 2012, especially considering our technology and science ( i am communicating with someone on the opposite side of the continent and all). but who know... shit does happen.

[paper halo]

Let's not even get started on how stupid the 2012 doomsday predictions are.

[DrStrong]

ehh. im going to have to disagree. i mean you look at the cold war era, that was a time that the signs were pointing to the end of man kind. what do we have now? yeah sure there are earthquakes and hurricanes but those have been around forever and it is only recently (in perspective) that humans have started documenting the natural disasters, what is to say that this doesnt happen every 600 years? if it hasnt wiped out the human race for the hundreds of thousands of years that we have been alive then i think we stand a pretty strong chance of at least making it past 2012, especially considering our technology and science ( i am communicating with someone on the opposite side of the continent and all). but who know... shit does happen.

The population has increased dramatically since before the time natural disasters were recorded. For all we know, things COULD have happened that wiped out an entire geographic area.

The Cold War is the best example of humanity almost ending, but we're having a lot of natural disasters happening now.

[Tyler Vagyler]

even if they are able to create this in a lab or wherever they are doing it....how does it prove that it happened before?

[DrStrong]

Let's not even get started on how stupid the 2012 doomsday predictions are.

The actual details of the 2012 doomsday are pretty dumb. But with all the shit happening recently, and if they CONTINUE happening, 2012 is a reasonable year for humanity to die off.

[DrStrong]

even if they are able to create this in a lab or wherever they are doing it....how does it prove that it happened before?

It doesn't prove it, but it just makes the argument more plausible.

[zachff]

Very interesting theory, I guess I've never thought of it before. Kind of Ismael ish

[Roboman]

I can totally see this becoming a movie. Scientists discover how to recreate the Big Bang, but won't do it since, you know, we would all be wiped out. But of course there's this one crazy scientist/government/terrorist group who think humanity must die and who want to press the button. So some super-elite commando squad has to be sent into CERN or whatever to stop the bad guys before they end the world as we know it! Certified blockbuster. I'm a genius.

[DrStrong]

I can totally see this becoming a movie. Scientists discover how to recreate the Big Bang, but won't do it since, you know, we would all be wiped out. But of course there's this one crazy scientist/government/terrorist group who think humanity must die and who want to press the button. So some super-elite commando squad has to be sent into CERN or whatever to stop the bad guys before they end the world as we know it! Certified blockbuster. I'm a genius.

Didnt Chain Reaction kind of touch on this subject?

[samsara]

We are all going to die. The End.

[Roboman]

Didnt Chain Reaction kind of touch on this subject?

Pfft I'm not a movie buff, I don't these kinds of things.

[Sic Transit Zeb]

China's trying to emulate Western culture again, how cute.

At least there will be some 'erase people' accountability over there.



I think even if there was a decent chance that another species created the 'Big Bang' as we know it, the odds that it was 'humans' would be zilch. I assume if someone takes the Big Bang to be fact, they also take evolution to be fact, and therefore the odds that humans evolved again after billions of years in an entirely different set of circumstances is damn near impossible.


All interesting food for though, however.

Oh yeah, I agree with you but to play devil's advocate... Couldn't this advanced human race, who engineered the big bang, then have enough technology to ensure that man kind would, again, evolve?

[Sic Transit Zeb]

The actual details of the 2012 doomsday are pretty dumb. But with all the shit happening recently, and if they CONTINUE happening, 2012 is a reasonable year for humanity to die off.

yeah, I see what you mean but if the 2012 prediction wasn't so close, people would just write it off as natural happenings. I don't think rare earthquakes, or oil spills are a sign. Being that they have continually happened for many decades prior.

[DrStrong]

yeah, I see what you mean but if the 2012 prediction wasn't so close, people would just write it off as natural happenings. I don't think rare earthquakes, or oil spills are a sign. Being that they have continually happened for many decades prior.

true...but to this degree?

[Machu505]

For the record, there hasn't been an unusual amount of earthquakes this year. You just hear about the ones that happen moreso than in the past.

[SomedayTheFire]

3 year old write up.

[timb89]

The population has increased dramatically since before the time natural disasters were recorded. For all we know, things COULD have happened that wiped out an entire geographic area.

The Cold War is the best example of humanity almost ending, but we're having a lot of natural disasters happening now.

i think you'll find the media is a instigator there. world wide information wasnt always the case.

[Manicapathy]

I don't like this kind of stuff. I'm all for science and advances therein, but when you get to this crazy playing God stuff, it freaks me out. Not a particular belief or anything, I just think that when you're playing with stuff that could, potentially, maybe blow up the earth, I'd rather not fool with it.

And for the creating life bit, also against that. Too much room for abuse (creating lesser forms intentionally for slave labor, organ farms, etc).

Ideally, I'll be long dead before I have to worry about that. A world that still doesn't have it's shit down regarding homosexuals or differences in race/religion has no right dealing with this kind of thing.

[Sic Transit Zeb]

true...but to this degree?

For the record, there hasn't been an unusual amount of earthquakes this year. You just hear about the ones that happen moreso than in the past.


I agree with Machu here.

[myplanforescape]

Kind of reminds me of this short story by Isaac Asimov, "The Last Question".

http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html

[caveBEAR]

Oh yeah, I agree with you but to play devil's advocate... Couldn't this advanced human race, who engineered the big bang, then have enough technology to ensure that man kind would, again, evolve?

Not really, especially if we were at that point with the LHC; we do not have the technology to ensure we evolve again.

[oshyjay]

Wasn't the entire point of the big bang theory to show how everything got here?
So ummm...if "something" did the big bang, how did they get here?

[Jgoddard]

I don't like this kind of stuff. I'm all for science and advances therein, but when you get to this crazy playing God stuff, it freaks me out. Not a particular belief or anything, I just think that when you're playing with stuff that could, potentially, maybe blow up the earth, I'd rather not fool with it.

And for the creating life bit, also against that. Too much room for abuse (creating lesser forms intentionally for slave labor, organ farms, etc).

Ideally, I'll be long dead before I have to worry about that. A world that still doesn't have it's shit down regarding homosexuals or differences in race/religion has no right dealing with this kind of thing.

differences in religion could also potentially lead to destruction of the Earth?

Discovery creates change, I'd rather have scientific research and experiments than believe evolution does not exist.
Just my opinion.

[caveBEAR]

Wasn't the entire point of the big bang theory to show how everything got here?
So ummm...if "something" did the big bang, how did they get here?

The Big Bang Theory (which is a misnomer, it most likely wasn't an explosion or 'bang') doesn't so much describe how everything got here or what (potentially) did/caused it, it's more used to describe what happened the moment after. We know that all ends of the universe are expanding outward, so, logically, something happened to force all that matter out; the 'big bang'.

[caveBEAR]

differences in religion could also potentially lead to destruction of the Earth?

Discovery creates change, I'd rather have scientific research and experiments than believe evolution does not exist.
Just my opinion.

No, he's saying that a culture that hasn't got it's religious and political squabbles in line shouldn't be fucking around with machinery that could potentially cause untold amounts of damage; essentially, we haven't 'earned' that right yet.

[zion the lion]

The Cold War is the best example of humanity almost ending,

Humanity? Really? All of it? Not just the countries involved in the cold war but full on humanity?

[repr1ze]

The Big Bang Theory (which is a misnomer, it most likely wasn't an explosion or 'bang') doesn't so much describe how everything got here or what (potentially) did/caused it, it's more used to describe what happened the moment after. We know that all ends of the universe are expanding outward, so, logically, something happened to force all that matter out; the 'big bang'.

While I agree with you, I'd rather not have scientists trying to replicate the creation of the universe lol.

[Jgoddard]

No, he's saying that a culture that hasn't got it's religious and political squabbles in line shouldn't be fucking around with machinery that could potentially cause untold amounts of damage; essentially, we haven't 'earned' that right yet.
Oh okay, apologies.

[open mind]

differences in religion could also potentially lead to destruction of the Earth?

Discovery creates change, I'd rather have scientific research and experiments than believe evolution does not exist.
Just my opinion.

religious conflict can't destroy the earth, but it could wipe out humanity.

i sometimes wonder what the universe is expanding into but then my brain starts to hurt.

[tkamB]

I don't like this kind of stuff. I'm all for science and advances therein, but when you get to this crazy playing God stuff, it freaks me out. Not a particular belief or anything, I just think that when you're playing with stuff that could, potentially, maybe blow up the earth, I'd rather not fool with it.

And for the creating life bit, also against that. Too much room for abuse (creating lesser forms intentionally for slave labor, organ farms, etc).

Ideally, I'll be long dead before I have to worry about that. A world that still doesn't have it's shit down regarding homosexuals or differences in race/religion has no right dealing with this kind of thing.

That isn't what they are doing though, all the particle accelerators do is replicate the circumstances after the big bang they don't create universes, they break down particles to see what they are made of to see what formed the matter we see and are made up of today. We can't generate near enough energy to create an actual universe and if we could theoretically it wouldn't destroy are world but create another, as it would create and expand into its own space. And if we are ever able to create life in a lab it would be more like bacteria then anything capable of being used as slave labor.

[SpacePunk]

differences in religion could also potentially lead to destruction of the Earth?

Discovery creates change, I'd rather have scientific research and experiments than believe evolution does not exist.
Just my opinion.


Sure, but Fermilab/CERN have nothing to do with evolution... and Darwin never used a particle accelerator during his work...

The Big Bang/Creation of the universe is on a whole new level of science compared to a theory about organisms changing over time on planet earth.

[DrStrong]

Humanity? Really? All of it? Not just the countries involved in the cold war but full on humanity?

Probably the entire population. If the USSR decided to go into nuclear war with the US, the amount of nukes would have caused nuclear winter. There had to have been studies on what the outcome would be for the rest of the planet.

[Jgoddard]

Sure, but Fermilab/CERN have nothing to do with evolution... and Darwin never used a particle accelerator during his work...

The Big Bang/Creation of the universe is on a whole new level of science compared to a theory about organisms changing over time on planet earth.

I agree, i was just using it as an example of scientific research, not specifically relating it to the big bang theory.

[Zeran]

The Big Bang Theory (which is a misnomer, it most likely wasn't an explosion or 'bang') doesn't so much describe how everything got here or what (potentially) did/caused it, it's more used to describe what happened the moment after. We know that all ends of the universe are expanding outward, so, logically, something happened to force all that matter out; the 'big bang'.

right, but what was there before the big bang or whatever caused the universe to expand? there can't have just been nothing. what is outside of the universe as we know it now?

[caveBEAR]

right, but what was there before the big bang or whatever caused the universe to expand? there can't have just been nothing. what is outside of the universe as we know it now?

:shrug:

But the 'Big Bang Theory' doesn't concern itself with that. Just with what happened after 'whatever'.

[bung]

I haven't the slightest clue as to the legitimacy of this study, since I know next to nothing about physics and whatnot, but we may be living inside a black hole of another universe (http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-07/we-might-be-living-black-hole-scientist-says).

/wut

[Zeran]

yeah...when i start thinking about that other stuff my mind kind of implodes a bit.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

Our entire realities are based on the imagination of an autistic child

#st.elsewherefinale

[zion the lion]

:shrug:

But the 'Big Bang Theory' doesn't concern itself with that. Just with what happened after 'whatever'.

When I tried to point this out before you all called me a fucking idiot...

[caveBEAR]

When I tried to point this out before you all called me a fucking idiot...

Where did this happen, and were you clear and concise?

[zion the lion]

Where did this happen, and were you clear and concise?

I have no idea anymore, it was months a go. And yes, I said that the "big bang theory" was piss poor at explaining the originsof this universe and needs to be revamped/replaced. Which it will be sooner or later. I also said that I dont believe in just the big bang theory as it is now, I believe that something came before it...people (as in you guys) got on my ass for not just believing in the big bang alone, acting like I was some dumbass bible humper.

[xshady121]

The title of this thread makes me think of

"Family Love Michael" from arrested development.

[caveBEAR]

I have no idea anymore, it was months a go. And yes, I said that the "big bang theory" was piss poor at explaining the originsof this universe and needs to be revamped/replaced. Which it will be sooner or later. I also said that I dont believe in just the big bang theory as it is now, I believe that something came before it...people (as in you guys) got on my ass for not just believing in the big bang alone, acting like I was some dumbass bible humper.

That sucks.

The title of this thread makes me think of

"Family Love Michael" from arrested development.

:lol: Such a great episode, but there weren't any poor episodes, were there?

[Zeran]

The title of this thread makes me think of

"Family Love Michael" from arrested development.

hahah, they have some great banners on there, especially those concerning buster.

[oldwirehands]

We are all going to die. The End.

Truth.

People should just except this, because its going to happen one way or another. Sure, the human race is most definitely on the road to self-destruction, but that doesn't mean we can't change that. People are just too lazy to do anything about it. They're not worried about the oppressed and starving people in the world right now; they only worry about their lives, and how they can make their lives better. Maybe there still a small sense of community, but the world is becoming one giant community, and it needs to make changes to the system in order for the human race to survive itself.

[zion the lion]

Truth.

People should just except this, because its going to happen one way or another. Sure, the human race is most definitely on the road to self-destruction, but that doesn't mean we can't change that. People are just too lazy to do anything about it. They're not worried about the oppressed and starving people in the world right now; they only worry about their lives, and how they can make their lives better. Maybe there still a small sense of community, but the world is becoming one giant community, and it needs to make changes to the system in order for the human race to survive itself.

I dont know how (in your mind) you jumped from "we're all going to die" to "we should save everyone else"

[Scrandon]

I dont know how (in your mind) you jumped from "we're all going to die" to "we should save everyone else"

Maybe you should read his post and find out.

[oldwirehands]

I dont know how (in your mind) you jumped from "we're all going to die" to "we should save everyone else"

Well, we're all going to reach an end eventually. When I talk about saving people from apocalyptic disaster, I'm not just talking about ourselves, I'm talking about our children and their children's children. I just think its silly to give up hope and say we're screwed. Look at how many apocalyptic movies have come out in the past decade. People are obsessed with the idea of an end-of-everything, instead of working on the problems we face. The end of the human species can be avoided. It just takes some social discipline and responsibility.

[zion the lion]

Well, we're all going to reach an end eventually. When I talk about saving people from apocalyptic disaster, I'm not just talking about ourselves, I'm talking about our children and their children's children. I just think its silly to give up hope and say we're screwed. Look at how many apocalyptic movies have come out in the past decade. People are obsessed with the idea of an end-of-everything, instead of working on the problems we face. The end of the human species can be avoided. It just takes some social discipline and responsibility.

Well even with the most social discipline and responsibility, we're going to see an end sooner or later. We've apparently had a lot of close calls, we are going to have that many more (ones you cant control)...I think people saying that the end of the species can be avoided is them just denying the fact that we have no control over a lot of things and them denying the fact that it will inevitably come to an end, even without us doing something stupid.

[oldwirehands]

Well even with the most social discipline and responsibility, we're going to see an end sooner or later. We've apparently had a lot of close calls, we are going to have that many more (ones you cant control)...I think people saying that the end of the species can be avoided is them just denying the fact that we have no control over a lot of things and them denying the fact that it will inevitably come to an end, even without us doing something stupid.

The fact of the matter is, we are gaining control of our fate through technology. Anyone denying this would be ignorant to the technological advances that will be developed within the next decade or two.

[zion the lion]

The fact of the matter is, we are gaining control of our fate through technology. Anyone denying this would be ignorant to the technological advances that will be developed within the next decade or two.

So how would you save us (with technology) if WR 104 were really aimed directly at us? You cant stop every single thing (like that) from happening...

[oldwirehands]

So how would you save us (with technology) if WR 104 were really aimed directly at us? You cant stop every single thing (like that) from happening...

Thats kind of a ridiculous question to ask me, since I am just an ordinary guy without a college education. I do know, and keep up with, the new technological advances of our species. Biogenetics, neuroscience, nanotechnology, quantum computing, ect. are all going to be greatly developed within the next 20 and all pose some kind of danger to us. At the same time, these technologies are key to our survival. We can manipulate nature in order to survive. Eventually, we will be able to travel through space and create new colonies on other planets. People who claim this as impossible are naive and are too attached to the old idea of science-fiction.

btw
http://www.universetoday.com/2009/01/07/wr-104-wont-kill-us-after-all/

[zion the lion]

Thats kind of a ridiculous question to ask me, since I am just an ordinary guy without a really strong education. I do know, and keep up with, the new technological advances of our species. Biogenetics, neuroscience, nanotechnology, ect. are all going to be greatly developed within the next 20 and all pose some kind of danger to us. At the same time, these technologies are key to our survival. We can manipulate nature in order to survive. Eventually, we will be able to travel through space and create new colonies on other planets. People who claim this as impossible are naive and are too attached to the old idea of science-fiction.

btw
http://www.universetoday.com/2009/01/07/wr-104-wont-kill-us-after-all/

What is the old idea of science fiction?

Should we really consider manipulating nature in order to survive? Not even saving a planet but just us as a species, it not only seems selfish but could lead to some real irresponsibility in the long run. Not only that but do you really think we should be going out, colonizing other planets, just to save our asses?

Also, I knew, which is why I said "if it was actually aimed directly at us".

[x togepi x]

The fact of the matter is, we are gaining control of our fate through technology. Anyone denying this would be ignorant to the technological advances that will be developed within the next decade or two.

except technological advances could be the end of us. like if we fuck up with nanotech.

[oldwirehands]

What is the old idea of science fiction?

Should we really consider manipulating nature in order to survive? Not even saving a planet but just us as a species, it not only seems selfish but could lead to some real irresponsibility in the long run. Not only that but do you really think we should be going out, colonizing other planets, just to save our asses?

Also, I knew, which is why I said "if it was actually aimed directly at us".

Well, through technology we can manipulate nature to save the planet, along with ourselves. I thought that idea was implied with what I said. Colonizing on other planets is a must. Our population is already growing too much, too fast. We can't live here forever.

except technological advances could be the end of us. like if we fuck up with nanotech.

Most definitely. Its a double edged sword.

[x togepi x]

Well, through technology we can manipulate nature to save the planet, along with ourselves. I thought that idea was implied with what I said. Colonizing on other planets is a must. Our population is already growing too much, too fast. We can't live here forever.



Most definitely. Its a double edged sword.

I honestly think that's a lot more likely than colonizing other planets.

[oldwirehands]

I honestly think that's a lot more likely than colonizing other planets.

If we have the ability to manipulate nature, and create space craft with the ability to travel to distant planets, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible. Of course, I'm thinking hundreds of years into the future; something we'll never be able to experience.

[zion the lion]

Well, through technology we can manipulate nature to save the planet, along with ourselves. I thought that idea was implied with what I said. Colonizing on other planets is a must. Our population is already growing too much, too fast. We can't live here forever.

Well colonizing other planets just gives the population permission to grow more and to treat the new colonies exactly the way we've treated this panet which is like shit.

[oldwirehands]

Well colonizing other planets just gives the population permission to grow more and to treat the new colonies exactly the way we've treated this panet which is like shit.

I've already mentioned that social responsibility and discipline is needed to even achieve such a feat. Its very easy to be pessimistic in the time we live in. I personally don't believe any great change will come, and that we really are doomed, but to say that is the only outcome possible is naive. A long lasting and prosperous existence is attainable.

[zion the lion]

I've already mentioned that social responsibility and discipline is needed to even achieve such a feat. Its very easy to be pessimistic in the time we live in. I personally don't believe any great change will come, and that we really are doomed, but to say that is the only outcome possible is naive. A long lasting and prosperous existence is attainable.

How much longer do you want humans to live?

[oldwirehands]

How much longer do you want humans to live?

I will only answer with another question. Why should there be an end?

[zion the lion]

I will only answer with another question. Why should there be an end?

Do you really think it should go on and on and on and on, like the song that never ends?

[oldwirehands]

Do you really think it should go on and on and on and on, like the song that never ends?

Why not?

[x togepi x]

If we have the ability to manipulate nature, and create space craft with the ability to travel to distant planets, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible. Of course, I'm thinking hundreds of years into the future; something we'll never be able to experience.

I'm saying I think we'll manipulate nature in a way that is apocalyptic or create some sort of technology that will undo us. I'm not saying it isn't possible, I just think that the way we are right now, we'll destroy yourselves first.

[oldwirehands]

I'm saying I think we'll manipulate nature in a way that is apocalyptic or create some sort of technology that will undo us. I'm not saying it isn't possible, I just think that the way we are right now, we'll destroy yourselves first.

Yeah, if nothing changes we're screwed.

[zion the lion]

Why not?

I dont think we're good enough to go on.

[oldwirehands]

I dont think we're good enough to go on.

Thats not a nice thing to say. When you look at the roots to the negative behavior of humans today, you can see that the system itself plays a part in fueling it. I'm not saying there is a such thing as a perfect person, or perfect system, or any sort of utopian society; but it is possible in creating a society that is happier, more intelligent, and more loving than the one we live in. One that brings much more equality. We can hate, but we also have the ability to love. And when I say love, I'm not talking about your bullshit Hallmark/Hollywood definition. Real love means accepting someone for who they are, not fitting one's ideals. The same love can be applied to all human beings. There are just a lot of people out there who need a sort of rehabilitation, due to the manipulative society we live in now.

[popdisaster00]

This thread is scaring me.

[open mind]

I dont think we're good enough to go on.

this has to be one of your nuttier statements.

[zion the lion]

Thats not a nice thing to say. When you look at the roots to the negative behavior of humans today, you can see that the system itself plays a part in fueling it. I'm not saying there is a such thing as a perfect person, or perfect system, or any sort of utopian society; but it is possible in creating a society that is happier, more intelligent, and more loving than the one we live in. One that brings much more equality. We can hate, but we also have the ability to love. And when I say love, I'm not talking about your bullshit Hallmark/Hollywood definition. Real love means accepting someone for who they are, not fitting one's ideals. The same love can be applied to all human beings. There are just a lot of people out there who need a sort of rehabilitation, due to the manipulative society we live in now.

That is the Hallmark/Hollywood definition.

I wasnt saying that we needed to be "perfect" just better, and its not going to happen. Its so much easier to hate somebody and tear them down than it is to "love them" and the same amount of negative behavior is going to flow through society, we arent ever going to fix that.

[oldwirehands]

That is the Hallmark/Hollywood definition.

I wasnt saying that we needed to be "perfect" just better, and its not going to happen. Its so much easier to hate somebody and tear them down than it is to "love them" and the same amount of negative behavior is going to flow through society, we arent ever going to fix that.

What movies have you been watching? This is beyond wrong. Major Hollywood movies are mostly all about finding "the one"; that perfect someone, that doesn't exist at all in reality.

[zion the lion]

What movies have you been watching? This is beyond wrong. Major Hollywood movies are mostly all about finding "the one"; that perfect someone, that doesn't exist at all in reality.

Do you watch Scrubs? Look at Janitor and Lady, he's absolutely nutto, he took her slowly into his world and she accepted it. Turk, and Carla, she accepted all his stupid stuff, and he accepted how controlling she was. Dr Cox and Jordan, those two accepted all of that mess. The show made it look like a joke but isnt that your definition of love?

Sure there are movies like TiMER where you end up throwing actual love aside for your "soul mate" (sorry if I ruined that movie for you), and its a shame when people start thinking like those movies (hell, I fucked a great relationship to high hell once because I was thinking like that) but there are still lots of Hollywood and Hallmark examples of love like you were talking about.

[oldwirehands]

Do you watch Scrubs? Look at Janitor and Lady, he's absolutely nutto, he took her slowly into his world and she accepted it. Turk, and Carla, she accepted all his stupid stuff, and he accepted how controlling she was. Dr Cox and Jordan, those two accepted all of that mess. The show made it look like a joke but isnt that your definition of love?

Sure there are movies like TiMER where you end up throwing actual love aside for your "soul mate" (sorry if I ruined that movie for you), and its a shame when people start thinking like those movies (hell, I fucked a great relationship to high hell once because I was thinking like that) but there are still lots of Hollywood and Hallmark examples of love like you were talking about.

I don't watch that garbage, but that is what love really is. Me and my Dad don't get along that well, but I still love him, and would pretty much do anything for him. You can sit here and spew a million definitions at me, but this is the most fundamental and straightforward one there is. I don't care if there so happens to be the same definition used in a few media outlets. That isn't the predominate philosophy in a lot of majors in the Hollywood department.

[zion the lion]

I don't watch that garbage, but that is what love really is. Me and my Dad don't get along that well, but I still love him, and would pretty much do anything for him. You can sit here and spew a million definitions at me, but this is the most fundamental and straightforward one there is. I don't care if there so happens to be the same definition used in a few media outlets. That isn't the predominate philosophy in a lot of majors in the Hollywood department.

You dont watch scrubs? Nobody doesnt like scrubs, except for my mom...

Uh, you were saying real love isnt the kind in the movies and tv shows...I was just giving one example that says it is. Look at most of the shows, and movies, it ends up with people accepting their loved ones for who they are...your hitch is that you dont like the fact that people in those movies are looking for their "one"...have you ever realized thats just the person who accepts them for who they are too?

[oldwirehands]

You dont watch scrubs? Nobody doesnt like scrubs, except for my mom...

Uh, you were saying real love isnt the kind in the movies and tv shows...I was just giving one example that says it is. Look at most of the shows, and movies, it ends up with people accepting their loved ones for who they are...your hitch is that you dont like the fact that people in those movies are looking for their "one"...have you ever realized thats just the person who accepts them for who they are too?

Saying someone is the only person in the world that you are capable of loving is selfish and unrealistic. There is no "one and only". That's not what love is supposed to be. It's not the same idea that I'm talking about at all.

[BornUnderPunches]

What movies have you been watching? This is beyond wrong. Major Hollywood movies are mostly all about finding "the one"; that perfect someone, that doesn't exist at all in reality.
"Well how about this way. I love that you get cold when it's seventy one degrees out, I love that it takes you an hour and a half to order a sandwich, I love that you get a little crinkle above your nose when you're looking at me like I'm nuts, I love that after I spend a day with you I can still smell your perfume on my clothesand I love that you are the last person I want to talk to before I go to sleep at night. And it's not because I'm lonely, and it's not because it's New Years Eve. I came here tonight because when you realise you want to spend the rest of your life with somebody, you want the rest of the life to start as soon as possible."

[oldwirehands]

"Well how about this way. I love that you get cold when it's seventy one degrees out, I love that it takes you an hour and a half to order a sandwich, I love that you get a little crinkle above your nose when you're looking at me like I'm nuts, I love that after I spend a day with you I can still smell your perfume on my clothesand I love that you are the last person I want to talk to before I go to sleep at night. And it's not because I'm lonely, and it's not because it's New Years Eve. I came here tonight because when you realise you want to spend the rest of your life with somebody, you want the rest of the life to start as soon as possible."

I don't know what this is, but it's still full of the same ideology: finding one who fits all these ideals.

[BornUnderPunches]

I don't know what this is, but it's still full of the same ideology: finding one who fits all these ideals.
Famous speech from When Harry Met Sally. And no, it's about loving someone for who they are.

[oldwirehands]

Famous speech from When Harry Met Sally. And no, it's about loving someone for who they are.

By picking out bits and pieces of that person you enjoy? Really?

[BornUnderPunches]

By picking out bits and pieces of that person you enjoy? Really?
You've clearly never seen the movie...

[oldwirehands]

You've clearly never seen the movie...

I don't really need to, sorry.

[caveBEAR]

What the fuck happened to this thread?

[oldwirehands]

It got fucking retarded, because I was bored.

[zion the lion]

"Well how about this way. I love that you get cold when it's seventy one degrees out, I love that it takes you an hour and a half to order a sandwich, I love that you get a little crinkle above your nose when you're looking at me like I'm nuts, I love that after I spend a day with you I can still smell your perfume on my clothesand I love that you are the last person I want to talk to before I go to sleep at night. And it's not because I'm lonely, and it's not because it's New Years Eve. I came here tonight because when you realise you want to spend the rest of your life with somebody, you want the rest of the life to start as soon as possible."

I dont know if its because the last time I saw that movie I was 11 or what, but that movie just seriously gets on my nerves.

[BornUnderPunches]

I dont know if its because the last time I saw that movie I was 11 or what, but that movie just seriously gets on my nerves.
I'm not a huge fan of it either

[zion the lion]

I'm not a huge fan of it either

Harry is annoying and seems like a dick, and Billy Crystal looks 10 years too old to be that character (which is sad because he's the only one who seems to fit harry well)...and the movie just has no plot.

But the old couples at the beginning are adorable.