i honestly dont get it...

[selftitled85]

we pick the president because of what his/her beliefs are. what they plan to do in office, how they plan to make the economy better...fix the war on terror...etc

so what does being a woman or black have to do with anything?

people always say clinton or rice should run for president. but neither really have no idea how to run a country. hillary was a first lady whose job was to pretty much travel around and look pretty. she is now a second term sen for ny who has done nothing but bitch and moan about the war in iraq and nothing about her own freaking state.

condi is better suited though still not good. she has been a well travelled sec of state but she has been too keen on butting heads.

neither are pres material.

barack obama shows hope for the future. but like i said in another thread he is still only a first or second term sen...he has great ideas but he doesnt have the trust of all the dems or anything.


so why do people keep saying america is racist and unwilling to have a minority or woman president when there are NO good candidates? barack will be an amazing pres for 2012 and possible vp for 08 but not pres. there is no woman out there at this present moment who would be able to run this country effectively.

/rant

[saysmydoctor]

Let's face it, though a majority of Americans preach sexual and racial equality, we don't actually believe it. Hillary wouldn't last as president, she is way to liberal. Condi Rice isn't even that good at her current job and she'd probably be assasinated simply because she is black.

McCain!

[rocktometal]

Let's face it, though a majority of Americans preach sexual and racial equality, we don't actually believe it. Hillary wouldn't last as president, she is way to liberal. Condi Rice isn't even that good at her current job and she'd probably be assasinated simply because she is black.

McCain!

McCain is gonna take the White House next term unless something big happens. No one else has both the resume or name power to take him on right now.

[selftitled85]

Let's face it, though a majority of Americans preach sexual and racial equality, we don't actually believe it. Hillary wouldn't last as president, she is way to liberal. Condi Rice isn't even that good at her current job and she'd probably be assasinated simply because she is black.

McCain!

hillary isnt way too liberal. she hasnt been around the international spotlight enough to really get any type of insight about what is going on. the only thing that would save her...which is also why she is sought after for president...is because key dem figures that were big under clinton would get to return to power.

just like how bush jr was pretty much a return to power of trhe men from bush sr...hil clinton becoming pres would bring a return of all of clintons big guys.

[rocktometal]

hillary isnt way too liberal. she hasnt been around the international spotlight enough to really get any type of insight about what is going on. the only thing that would save her...which is also why she is sought after for president...is because key dem figures that were big under clinton would get to return to power.

just like how bush jr was pretty much a return to power of trhe men from bush sr...hil clinton becoming pres would bring a return of all of clintons big guys.

I think they are playin with fire. Hillary has too much baggage in my opinion. Too many people have a sour taste in their mouthe over the scandals of their administration.

[selftitled85]

I think they are playin with fire. Hillary has too much baggage in my opinion. Too many people have a sour taste in their mouthe over the scandals of their administration.

well honestly id pick the scandal that rocked pres clinton over the scandal that rocked pres bush. clinton only hurt himself...he didnt hurt the rest of the country and the military.

the reps escalated something that was completely retarded and not of national security risk nor domestic problem.

[I am all talk]

My friend is convinced that Al Gore will not only run but win the presidency. I just don't see that happen. In fact, I pray it doesn't happen.

[rocktometal]

well honestly id pick the scandal that rocked pres clinton over the scandal that rocked pres bush. clinton only hurt himself...he didnt hurt the rest of the country and the military.

the reps escalated something that was completely retarded and not of national security risk nor domestic problem.

true, but Clinton had a series of unrelated scandals most of which involved him personally. Bush's scandals almost all involve Iraq, and he's come up with a hell of a defense-9/11.

Oh and that Al Gore comment. The democrats better hope they have a better canidate then him, you know the real reason he competed with Bush was that he softened his liberal views by picken Lieberman as VP.

[captainhampton]

I actually think we are ready for a black president. I think Colin Powell could've won if he had ran. and I think Barack can win, but in 2012 not 2008.

[I am all talk]

true, but Clinton had a series of unrelated scandals most of which involved him personally. Bush's scandals almost all involve Iraq, and he's come up with a hell of a defense-9/11.

Oh and that Al Gore comment. The democrats better hope they have a better canidate then him, you know the real reason he competed with Bush was that he softened his liberal views by picken Lieberman as VP.
He thinks that the movie, the college tours, the years out of the spotlight have made Gore some sort of a sleeper canidate who has the name recognition necessary for a run, and plenty of cash handy. I see no way the Dems can expect to win if we throw out an already failed canidate.

[rocktometal]

He thinks that the movie, the college tours, the years out of the spotlight have made Gore some sort of a sleeper canidate who has the name recognition necessary for a run, and plenty of cash handy. I see no way the Dems can expect to win if we throw out an already failed canidate.

My thought as well. Gore just isnt a strong enough canidate anyway, and I think that only a strong canidate is gonna win in '08, and who is tougher then the guy who spent months in a Vietnamese concentation camp? not Gore or Hilary either.

[captainhampton]

he could've gotten out of the prison camp too but he refused to leave his men behind. and they broke his fingers and tortured him even more because of it. beast.

[rocktometal]

he could've gotten out of the prison camp too but he refused to leave his men behind. and they broke his fingers and tortured him even more because of it. beast.

Oh yeah, that guy redefined tough. Did you the A&E movie on him a while back? powerful stuff.

[aminorthreat55]

He thinks that the movie, the college tours, the years out of the spotlight have made Gore some sort of a sleeper canidate who has the name recognition necessary for a run, and plenty of cash handy. I see no way the Dems can expect to win if we throw out an already failed canidate.
Nixon failed in '60 and was not only elected in '68 but re-elected in '72 in a landslide. Failure didn't hold him back at all.

[I am all talk]

Nixon failed in '60 and was not only elected in '68 but re-elected in '72 in a landslide. Failure didn't hold him back at all.
how'd that turn out for him?

[rocktometal]

how'd that turn out for him?

haha.

you know Nixon was VP for a good wnd very popular President-Eisenhower. Clinton is still very contraversial which is why I think neither Hillary or Gore are relistic choices for the democrats.

[aminorthreat55]

how'd that turn out for him?
The fact that he committed a crime in office is irrelevant in respect to the fact that you're wrong. The point is he was elected not once but twice after failing his initial candidacy.

[rocktometal]

Actually Gore and Nixen have some startling smilarities:
1. both lost a close initial election
2. both had served as VPs for two term Presidents
3. both lost to a President who entered into wars that quickly became very unpopular(Kennedy-Vietnam, Bush-Iraq)
However major seperations exhist. Nixen lost his first election to a suave, sophisticated son of a millionaire. Gore lost to a 'streight-shooting', matter-of-fact Texan. But the biggest difference is that Nixen was a mild conservative whose policies in many ways reflected liberal points of view. Gore is not a mild democrat. One of his biggest platforms is enviromentall conservation.
Also, Nixen came in and had an excellent first term he helped bring a close to Vietnam and he boosted the economy. That is why he got a second term.

[selftitled85]

Actually Gore and Nixen have some startling smilarities:
1. both lost a close initial election
2. both had served as VPs for two term Presidents
3. both lost to a President who entered into wars that quickly became very unpopular(Kennedy-Vietnam, Bush-Iraq)
However major seperations exhist. Nixen lost his first election to a suave, sophisticated son of a millionaire. Gore lost to a 'streight-shooting', matter-of-fact Texan. But the biggest difference is that Nixen was a mild conservative whose policies in many ways reflected liberal points of view. Gore is not a mild democrat. One of his biggest platforms is enviromentall conservation.
Also, Nixen came in and had an excellent first term he helped bring a close to Vietnam and he boosted the economy. That is why he got a second term.

another key difference is that nixon has kissinger...who is/was/and is still seen as one of the most influential foreign policy men of the time.

[rocktometal]

another key difference is that nixon has kissinger...who is/was/and is still seen as one of the most influential foreign policy men of the time.

very true

[I am all talk]

The fact that he committed a crime in office is irrelevant in respect to the fact that you're wrong. The point is he was elected not once but twice after failing his initial candidacy.
Well, I would be wrong if I at any point I said that Gore couldn't win because no failed candidate won a later election. Plenty of presidential runner-ups went on to win later elections. John Adams and Thomas Jefferson both had to serve stints as VPs before winning the office, John Quincy Adams, William Harrison, Grover Cleveland all lost in their first bids for the White House and both Martin Van Buren and James Polk lost handedly in their attempts as Vice President.

I said that the Democrats will not win with a candidate that has already lost and election and I stand by that.

[Lueda Alia]

Well, I would be wrong if I at any point I said that Gore couldn't win because no failed candidate won a later election. Plenty of presidential runner-ups went on to win later elections. John Adams and Thomas Jefferson both had to serve stints as VPs before winning the office, John Quincy Adams, William Harrison, Grover Cleveland all lost in their first bids for the White House and both Martin Van Buren and James Polk lost handedly in their attempts as Vice President.

I said that the Democrats will not win with a candidate that has already lost and election and I stand by that.

Did he actually really lose though?

[odelay]

I actually think we are ready for a black president. I think Colin Powell could've won if he had ran. and I think Barack can win, but in 2012 not 2008.
I think Barack will become president before Rice does. There's a good shot that he will.

[Broken Parachute]

Did he actually really lose though?
Are people still bringing up that election? Come on, the man couldn't even carry his own state. I was shocked that Kerry didn't win. I knew Gore wouldn't though.

[Broken Parachute]

hillary was a first lady whose job was to pretty much travel around and look pretty.
She failed miserably.

[fromwithin]

hahahahahahahahaha youre clueless if you think all hillary did was travel around. she ran the presidency, her husband was the figurehead.

[monkeyofdoom]

My friend is convinced that Al Gore will not only run but win the presidency. I just don't see that happen. In fact, I pray it doesn't happen.

Al gore already stated he would not run for presidancy

[sweet tragedy]

She failed miserably.

I saw on the news a few days ago that a senate opponant called her ugly. While I find it somewhat amusing since I don't like Hilary, I think it's really quite sad that something like that was used against a candidate. If his opposition was male, that wouldn't have even been brought up. I know that doesn't relate to the thread at all, but it reminded me of that and how much it irked me.

[rocktometal]

I saw on the news a few days ago that a senate opponant called her ugly. While I find it somewhat amusing since I don't like Hilary, I think it's really quite sad that something like that was used against a candidate. If his opposition was male, that wouldn't have even been brought up. I know that doesn't relate to the thread at all, but it reminded me of that and how much it irked me.

its not her ugliness that annoys me, it is her Superwoman attitude.

[I am all talk]

Did he actually really lose though?
Eda, you're really nice and everything but sometimes I'm really happy you aren't an American voter.

[Justin_stacy]

so why do people keep saying america is racist and unwilling to have a minority or woman president when there are NO good candidates?
/rant


Powell is a good, viable, and winnable minority candidate, and he'd win on the support of white moderate middle class republican voters, the same people normally portrayed as racists. But he doesn’t want the job, and there’s the problem, finding viable minority and non-male candidates to run. Its not that America isn’t ready its that the viable candidates haven’t jumped into the race. Hilary is not a viable candidate, so her lose in 08’ won’t prove a point, nor was Sharpton or Jackson before her. You can’t call the general public racist or sexist in relation to the presedency, until you actually give them an individual worthy of voting for.

[selftitled85]

Powell is a good, viable, and winnable minority candidate, and he'd win on the support of white moderate middle class republican voters, the same people normally portrayed as racists. But he doesn’t want the job, and there’s the problem, finding viable minority and non-male candidates to run. Its not that America isn’t ready its that the viable candidates haven’t jumped into the race. Hilary is not a viable candidate, so her lose in 08’ won’t prove a point, nor was Sharpton or Jackson before her. You can’t call the general public racist or sexist in relation to the presedency, until you actually give them an individual worthy of voting for.

powell also will never get the nod because he is too moderate for the republicans and too conservative on some issues for the democrats.

[rocktometal]

powell also will never get the nod because he is too moderate for the republicans and too conservative on some issues for the democrats.

Sadly true. You know Powell is one of the few guys I'd trust to get us back on the right track in the war in Iraq. He has got a great work ethic, and service in Vietnam. Really great guy, I wish he coulda accomplished more.

[selftitled85]

Sadly true. You know Powell is one of the few guys I'd trust to get us back on the right track in the war in Iraq. He has got a great work ethic, and service in Vietnam. Really great guy, I wish he coulda accomplished more.

yeah. its quite sad really. powell was brought into bush's cabinet more or less to get more votes. but he was many times butting heads with rice and rumsfeld.

powell gave a list for how we need to conduct a war: a large army that can easily go in and take out the enemy and secure the country while keeping casualties down...an escape plan...and one other key factor i dont remember.

its really sad how little of an effect he had.

[rocktometal]

yeah. its quite sad really. powell was brought into bush's cabinet more or less to get more votes. but he was many times butting heads with rice and rumsfeld.

powell gave a list for how we need to conduct a war: a large army that can easily go in and take out the enemy and secure the country while keeping casualties down...an escape plan...and one other key factor i dont remember.

its really sad how little of an effect he had.

Yeah you know Franks grand theory on military operation? "Speed Kills." Nothing wrong with that theory if you are hugely outnumbered or underequipped or not very well financially backed, but we have none of those problems. We have the biggest military in the world, we should use it.

[selftitled85]

Yeah you know Franks grand theory on military operation? "Speed Kills." Nothing wrong with that theory if you are hugely outnumbered or underequipped or not very well financially backed, but we have none of those problems. We have the biggest military in the world, we should use it.

word. but in defense of the presidency on this issue...if we commited more soldiers to the war in iraq the public would FREAK.

its a catch 22...we need more soldiers there to fight and win...but if we send more soldiers then support for the war will dwindle lower. it really sucks. the american public is retarded really.

[rocktometal]

word. but in defense of the presidency on this issue...if we commited more soldiers to the war in iraq the public would FREAK.

its a catch 22...we need more soldiers there to fight and win...but if we send more soldiers then support for the war will dwindle lower. it really sucks. the american public is retarded really.

yes I agree it is a sad situation, but if I were President I would wait until after the election bring in all the head guys of both parties as well as military experts to show the politicians the plan and explain its importance. It would be a win-win situation. Dems would support it cause they wouldn't want to be left in the rain and the Reps would back me cause it would be a good, well thought out plan. Maybe Id even bring in Kissinger for the presentation.

[rocktometal]

Oh yeah I forget to mention the particulars of the plan.
1. Double maybe even triple the military presence in Iraq.
2. Bring in more domestic construction companies to help out the Army's Engineering Corp so that they could rebuild:
A. The Roads
B. The Water System
C. The Electricity
D. The Hospitals
3. I would use most of the new troops to act as security for both the work sites to insure they would get built, and the border to limit terrorists coming or leaving.
4. I would use the some of the rest to help train Iraqis to take over the American postions once we left. both in the public and private sector.

[selftitled85]

Oh yeah I forget to mention the particulars of the plan.
1. Double maybe even triple the military presence in Iraq.
2. Bring in more domestic construction companies to help out the Army's Engineering Corp so that they could rebuild:
A. The Roads
B. The Water System
C. The Electricity
D. The Hospitals
3. I would use most of the new troops to act as security for both the work sites to insure they would get built, and the border to limit terrorists coming or leaving.
4. I would use the some of the rest to help train Iraqis to take over the American postions once we left. both in the public and private sector.

see thats one of the places that pisses me off so much. almost all the companies working in iraq hire out to private contractors that do not have to follow under military guidelines. they are paid more than military men and leads to a lot of resentment from the military. i know the govt is looking into it to see if they can halt it somehow.

[Justin_stacy]

powell also will never get the nod because he is too moderate for the republicans and too conservative on some issues for the democrats.

he'll never get it because he doesn't want it, the RNC would be doing backflips if he'd actually jump in the race.

[Paul Tao]

Hillary is way more centrist than everyone thinks she is. People who call her "too liberal" obviously aren't extremely familiar with some of her votes.

[Love As Arson]

I fault Hilary for being too conservative. Especially, with regards to women's abortion rights and the war in Iraq.

[Love As Arson]

we pick the president because of what his/her beliefs are. what they plan to do in office, how they plan to make the economy better...fix the war on terror...etc
No, we do not. Essentially, it is a popularity contest between individuals will likely do nothing but bad for us. As for why it is a big deal, well, because there have never been a woman or minority candidate. That is all, and some would like to see change for the sake of change, regardless of substance.

[justinevans]

hillary isnt way too liberal. she hasnt been around the international spotlight enough to really get any type of insight about what is going on. the only thing that would save her...which is also why she is sought after for president...is because key dem figures that were big under clinton would get to return to power.

just like how bush jr was pretty much a return to power of trhe men from bush sr...hil clinton becoming pres would bring a return of all of clintons big guys.

Hilary is the most liberal voter in Congress.

[justinevans]

Yeah you know Franks grand theory on military operation? "Speed Kills." Nothing wrong with that theory if you are hugely outnumbered or underequipped or not very well financially backed, but we have none of those problems. We have the biggest military in the world, we should use it.

China has the biggest military.

[justinevans]

Hillary is way more centrist than everyone thinks she is. People who call her "too liberal" obviously aren't extremely familiar with some of her votes.

up to the last election...Kerry was the 2nd most liberal voter, next to Hilary. That is what was reported...But we all know how shitty the media system is.

[justinevans]

I could not care less if a woman or a minority wins the presidency, just not hilary.

I cannot look at Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Bush, Bush, Clinton as our last few presidents.

We need a change, but most importantly of families.

Also, we will see a latin president before an African-American or Female I think.

[aminorthreat55]

Yeah you know Franks grand theory on military operation? "Speed Kills." Nothing wrong with that theory if you are hugely outnumbered or underequipped or not very well financially backed, but we have none of those problems. We have the biggest military in the world, we should use it.
I'm pretty sure China has a bigger military in terms of personal, but they're the only one bigger than us.

[aminorthreat55]

I could not care less if a woman or a minority wins the presidency, just not hilary.

I cannot look at Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Bush, Bush, Clinton as our last few presidents.

We need a change, but most importantly of families.

Also, we will see a latin president before an African-American or Female I think.
Bill Richardson all the way.

[rocktometal]

I'm pretty sure China has a bigger military in terms of personal, but they're the only one bigger than us.

You are correct, China is bigger. I stand corrected. However the basis of my argument is still valid.

[aminorthreat55]

You are correct, China is bigger. I stand corrected. However the basis of my argument is still valid.
I never said it wasn't, just making sure your facts are straight.

[Justin_stacy]

I never said it wasn't, just making sure your facts are straight.

Well if you want to be exact about the facts; Russia, Vietnam, North Korea, India and South Korea, along with China, all have larger armies in man power then the US.

[halifaxrocks]

This is just my opinion but I think that Rudolph Giuliani would have no problem, if he chose to run

[aminorthreat55]

Well if you want to be exact about the facts; Russia, Vietnam, North Korea, India and South Korea, along with China, all have larger armies in man power then the US.
Just curious, what exact statistic are you using to measure man power? I assume total troops, not qualifying them based on active status right (which is what I used)?

[YourMusicSucks]

Let's face it, though a majority of Americans preach sexual and racial equality, we don't actually believe it. Hillary wouldn't last as president, she is way to liberal. Condi Rice isn't even that good at her current job and she'd probably be assasinated simply because she is black.

McCain!

McCain FTW. No post could possibly be more identical to what I believe.

[Justin_stacy]

Just curious, what exact statistic are you using to measure man power? I assume total troops, not qualifying them based on active status right (which is what I used)?

I know what you used, i was just tring to be picky. The UN lists totals using activited duty and trained reserves, that how the US drops to 6 or 7 on their list. But just looking at active duty we are second or third depending on who's North Korea statistics you use.