Republicans = Freedom?

[Matthew]

So I was at this leadership seminar a few weeks back and this republican lady gave a speech about how the Republican party has always been about freedom. Freedom is their frist perogative blah blah blah.

So they have this segment where you can ask a few questions of the speaker, and this is what I asked...

"If the Republican party is about "freedom", than why is it that they have continued to oppose legislation that wouuld make us FREE to use marijuana, make a gay couple FREE to wed, and allow a woman to be FREE to have an abortion?"

Response: Some bullshit about how bad marijuana and abortion are, and how gays are taboo in conservative culture.

"So really, the Republican part isnt ALL ABOUT FREEDOm, they are for freedom where it is convenient for them?"

Response: Stuttering, unintelligible drivel about conservative values."

Anyone else think they can give me a better answer? I certainly hope so.

[.&$]

i agree with you that Republicans often have very hypocritical values, but i agree totally with their economic stance. my dream govt would be almost completely hands off, lets people do whatever they want(as long as its not hurting anybody, including themselves), and dosent have outrageous taxes. our founding fathers had a plan for us, to have a very small, hands off form of government that did not impede peoples freedoms and only served to protect the country from threats.

so bacically:
democrat: socially
republican: economically

thats the best way to go.

[BustaNutz]

That's actually a little thinking outside of the box which is rare on this forum, so I've got to credit you there. You should check out some of the eastern philosophies if that's what you believe in, especially Confucianism. They preach to do what makes you happy so long as you don't hurt anyone. I personally find that to be a good concept for a government, but unfortuantely humanity is flawed as a whole and we wouldn't be able to handle that, due to the fact that we have plenty of sickos (as is evidenced by tubgirl who continues to appear in the general forum). But I agree with you that we need a more hands off government, being found with a gram of pot as a 17 year old shouldn't continue to hamper you the rest of your life as it does now. There are some laws such as legalization of marijuana and gay marriages that should be passed....

[yeat182]

historically, the republican party has stood for small government and greater personal freedom, as well as civil rights (see the radical republicans of the 1800's). nowadays they very contridictory, they want small government when it comes to buissness, yet they want to have more government intervention in law enforcement. they have sort of changed their philosphy through the years, becoming more of the religious right, rather than the radical republicans of old.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by ScreamoEMOBoy
, and allow a woman to be FREE to have an abortion?"



so we all should be free to commit murder for convenience, right?

[Ronin]

Originally posted by BustaNutz
But I agree with you that we need a more hands off government, being found with a gram of pot as a 17 year old shouldn't continue to hamper you the rest of your life as it does now. There are some laws such as legalization of marijuana and gay marriages that should be passed....

It's times like these that I love to be Canadian.

I don't smoke pot anymore, but my friends all do, and some of them have criminal records now because of it. Thankfully, that's gonna change

You all wish you lived here, admit it

well, maybe not justin_stacy

[evil zach]

Originally posted by ScreamoEMOBoy
So I was at this leadership seminar a few weeks back and this republican lady gave a speech about how the Republican party has always been about freedom. Freedom is their frist perogative blah blah blah.

So they have this segment where you can ask a few questions of the speaker, and this is what I asked...

"If the Republican party is about "freedom", than why is it that they have continued to oppose legislation that wouuld make us FREE to use marijuana, make a gay couple FREE to wed, and allow a woman to be FREE to have an abortion?"

Response: Some bullshit about how bad marijuana and abortion are, and how gays are taboo in conservative culture.

"So really, the Republican part isnt ALL ABOUT FREEDOm, they are for freedom where it is convenient for them?"

Response: Stuttering, unintelligible drivel about conservative values."

Anyone else think they can give me a better answer? I certainly hope so.
The republican party is about freedom so long as it furthers their conservative agenda
The democratic party is about freedom so long as it furthiers their "liberal" agenda

The motto of the republican pary should be "we want whats worst for everybody" and the democratic party's should be "what they said"

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
so we all should be free to commit murder for convenience, right?

Please don't start another abortion debate, these are all so dumb and repetitive, just let it go...

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by BustaNutz
Please don't start another abortion debate, these are all so dumb and repetitive, just let it go...

:D

[Ronin]

Originally posted by evil zach
The republican party is about freedom so long as it furthers their conservative agenda
The democratic party is about freedom so long as it furthiers their "liberal" agenda

The motto of the republican pary should be "we want whats worst for everybody" and the democratic party's should be "what they said"

Hahaha
gold zach, fucking gold

[Matthew]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
so we all should be free to commit murder for convenience, right?

your feelings on abortion are irrelevant to this point. if anything they prove my point, whcih is that republicans dont want "freedom", they want to pursue their own agenda. tru, demoxrats are the same way, but they dont tout themselves as the champions of freedom.

Originally posted by BUstaNutzYou should check out some of the eastern philosophies if that's what you believe in, especially Confucianism. They preach to do what makes you happy so long as you don't hurt anyone.

You must be thinking of something else. Confucianism is very traditionalist and preaches with a great emphasis on hierarchy and suboordinance. The five main relationships it gives are all hierarchies. it preaches knowing your place and fulfilling your duties... very little thought toward individualsim.

[BustaNutz]

Maybe I am thinking of something else then, it was freshman year when I studied Eastern philosophies so I may very well be thinking of another movement. My bad.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by ScreamoEMOBoy
your feelings on abortion are irrelevant to this point. if anything they prove my point, whcih is that republicans dont want "freedom"


Your point proves nothing but pure ignorance. "Freedom" has nothing to do with ones ablitly to murder.......... also tring to compare two things that have nothing in comon does not prove a point, no matter how hard you try or want it to............

[Matthew]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
Your point proves nothing but pure ignorance. "Freedom" has nothing to do with ones ablitly to murder

whenever you say stuff like that, where you assume that everyone views abortion as murder (or should, as you may see it) you make it impossible for me to take you seriously. which is sad, becuase you usually have relevant input... but you are VERY close-minded on that issue.

[.&$]

im a christian. however i smoke pot on a weekly basis and i think legalization is a good thing. im not gay but i have no problem with two dudes or two chicks gettin hitched(in the eyes of the state). does this make me immoral? i think not. as for abortion i gotta go with my heart and i just think its just a wrong thing, except if the mothers life is in danger. the govt's job is to protect the people. not to tell them how to live. this is why i especially have a distaste for communism.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by ScreamoEMOBoy
whenever you say stuff like that, where you assume that everyone views abortion as murder (or should, as you may see it) you make it impossible for me to take you seriously. which is sad, becuase you usually have relevant input... but you are VERY close-minded on that issue.

but you see the "taking of an innocent life (is that better)" as a "freedom", which it is not by any sense of the word, so how can i possibly take YOU seriously?............and i dont assume how any one else thinks, i only post on how i think and or feel, and that is that abortion, outside of REAL medical issues, is murder (and this acounts for only 2% to 10% of abortions depending on which side you believe)...........

[Ronin]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
but you see the "taking of an innocent life (is that better)" as a "freedom", which it is not by any sense of the word, so how can i possibly take YOU seriously?............and i dont assume how any one else thinks, i only post on how i think and or feel, and that is that abortion, outside of REAL medical issues, is murder (and this acounts for only 2% to 10% of abortions depending on which side you believe)...........

But there is no absolute definition on what "life" is or when it begins.

[MestNFG]

Politics is all about lies and false promises, weather you are a Republican or a Democrat. We elct them to office and they sit on their fat asses and do nothing but bicker among themselves and blame the OTHER party for everything that goes wrong.

We, as Americans, just elect the best lair or the one who lies the LEAST.

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by MestNFG
Politics is all about lies and false promises, weather you are a Republican or a Democrat. We elct them to office and they sit on their fat asses and do nothing but bicker among themselves and blame the OTHER party for everything that goes wrong.

We, as Americans, just elect the best lair or the one who lies the LEAST.

I want to try too hard to be a punk and say stupid things like this guy does too.

[ToTheOne]

uh huh

[evil zach]

Originally posted by cal1082
Of course there is some lies and alot of false promises. They dont just sit on their fat asses. If that the case nothing would get accomplished, and yet ever year many laws, tax increases, tax cuts, and everything in between are implimented into our lives. I'm sure there is a lot of bickering, not every person agrees with each other on how a gov. so large as ours runs. Yet we have the greatest country yet.
Then why is it that countries such as finland, australia, and canada consitantly rank higher in terms of standard of living?

[Matthew]

Originally posted by cal1082
Yet we have the greatest country yet.

I love the way people just say that like its some undeniable truth. our nation still has qute a bit of room for improvement, there is still legally enforced discrimination against homosexuals, a huge class divide, and we are not even in the top ten industrialized nations for education and knowledge.

other than that i agree with what you said. just try not to be so nationalist. you have ot realize that not everyone you will meet is american, neither is everyone on this baord, and when you make a statement like that you automatically put the other guy on the defensive. if im talking to zach and i say "america is the best nation, by far" he now has to defend canada. he proably doesnt like me too much. be more considerate. think globally. thank you.

[Ronin]

Originally posted by cal1082
Yet we have the greatest country yet.

Canada has a stronger economy
Cuba has better health care
Most of Western Europe has a lower violent crime rate (less deaths by shooting as well)
France has a lower rate of alcoholism

etc etc

[Matthew]

Originally posted by Ronin

Most of Western Europe has a lower violent crime rate (less deaths by shooting as well)


IMPOSSIBLE! everyone knows that the crime rate skyrockets when you dont execute criminals!

[Ronin]

Originally posted by cal1082
i'm talking as a whole, America is seen by the world as the best country. We have the most stable economy, and we pretty much power the economy of the world. Of course we have our problems, like every other country in the world. Maybe by "best" i'm really saying most powerful and most influencial.
I dont see being nationalistic as being wrong either, if the other guy reads what i said and goes on defense that just means he thinks i'm talking down about his country. For example if zach went on defense for what i said he would be wrong. I never said anything bad or anything about the state of Canada's nation. For all i know they could have a very strong economy and also be a good place to live, but Canada is not seen by the world as a superpower as much as America is. So there is no need to go on defense.

America isn't seen as the best country by the world.

There are some immutable facts, such as having the highest GDP, and the strongest army.

But in the court of world opinion, America is generally disliked

[MestNFG]

Originally posted by BustaNutz
I want to try too hard to be a punk and say stupid things like this guy does too.

Ooohhh..good one. Real impressive sounding coming from somebody who's barely old enough to shave. I was listening to punk before you could even spell the fuckin word. Go back into your parent's basement and let the grown-ups talk.

[MestNFG]

If the world hates us....why the fuck do they all come here then? Why will people swim through shark infested waters....sneak aboard airline and cargo ships just to come here for a chance at the American Dream?

America isn't as bad as you foreigners think it is, and by the same token, it's not as great as we American's think it is.

However, in my mind...it's still the best country on earth, i'm proud to be an american, and i wouldn't want to live anywhere else. That's not a diss to Canada, England, Germany, Japan, and Austrailia (countries I have been to and very much enjoyed), but it's just me being Patriotic.

[BanMe]

So you listen to Mest and New Found Glory and you aren't a 13 year old girl, I guess the wonders really never cease.

Anyway, both parties are full of shit, but right now the conservatives and republicans are doing the most damage. They've basically set a precedent stating it's ok to ignore international law.

It's bad enough that Bush stole the election by having his brother purge the names of over 22,000 innocent people from the voter list in Florida, now he has to fuck up the rest of the world.

[MestNFG]

Originally posted by BanMe
So you listen to Mest and New Found Glory and you aren't a 13 year old girl, I guess the wonders really never cease.

I guess not. Why does the music and bands people like bother you so much? Is your life that hollow and void of meaning you get your fulfillment by ripping other people for those choices?

[BanMe]

Yes.

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by MestNFG
Ooohhh..good one. Real impressive sounding coming from somebody who's barely old enough to shave. I was listening to punk before you could even spell the fuckin word. Go back into your parent's basement and let the grown-ups talk.

You were listening to punk music like Mest and NFG? How hardcore are you? Wow I wish I could meet a few more true punks like yourself. You've been listening to punk before I could spell the word. So you've been listening to shitty music for 12 years? Poor thing. Well I can see your taste hasn't gotten any better, asshole.

And when you make a stupid anti-government statement like that, of course you're going to catch shit for it. It was a dumbass thing to say. Of course politicians lie, it's common sense they do, but the way you state it liek you're some enlightened anarchist who has any idea what you're talking about is a joke. The rest of your posts are relevant, and worth reading but one as dumb as that deserves any shit that it gets. And as for your little run back to mommy statement, I take exception to that, because despite my age, I'm quite in tune with what goes on in the world. It interests me quite a bit, I'd like to pursue a career in international affairs or journalism and as a result of that interest I spend a lot of time reading up on relevant issues such as these. As for the comments I made in the other thread, I was venting some steam and you got the brunt of it, if you want to make it an issue I'd be gald to oblige you, or if you want ot let it slide for what it was that's fine. My point is this, don't make ignorant statements and generalizations about thing you know nothing about such as my political knowledge.

[tyte emo]

Originally posted by .&$
so bacically:
democrat: socially
republican: economically

thats the best way to go. [/B]

You would be LIBERTARIAN than.

In other news, Republicans = Patriot Act = Taking away soooo much freedom

[yeat182]

Originally posted by Ronin
America isn't seen as the best country by the world.

There are some immutable facts, such as having the highest GDP, and the strongest army.

But in the court of world opinion, America is generally disliked

i think AMERICANS are generally disliked, but AMERICA is seen as one of the greatest countries in the world.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by BanMe
. They've basically set a precedent stating it's ok to ignore international law.


its not so much ignoring it, as understanding that american law comes FIRST and is more important.............

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by Ronin

Most of Western Europe has a lower violent crime rate (less deaths by shooting as well)


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/12/01/ncrime01.xml

[BanMe]

Florida paid a company named DBT(run by republicans) around 4 million dollars to count its votes. There was bidding, and DBT had the highest price, yet Florida chose them over similar companies.

The number of voters purged from the list unfairly could be as high as 55,000. DBT doesn't even deny the mistake, they instead blamed the state of Florida.

Florida(Bush, Harris) essentially said "screw the court rulings" and told DBT "don't worry" about making any corrections.

What court rulings? The rulings that told the Jeb and co. to stop disenfranchising convicted felons from other states who had been granted clemency upon their release from prison. You see, the motor voter law says that states like Florida who don't allow felons to vote have to recognize rulings of other states on these issues. Instead of granting the former felons the right to vote immediately, as they should've, Florida made them go through a long, complicated process that could take as long as two years! The people weren't notified until 1999, if they were lucky enough to be notified at all. Even if they did fight it, there was no guarantee that their rights would be restored in time for the election.

On top of the former felons, there were many people who were wrongly matched up with felons. Florida only wanted an 80% match rate and they didn't even bother to use Social Security numbers. This means that Steve Johnson could be matched with Steve Johanson and nothing would be changed.

So why not fix this "error"? Because 90% of the list of people who were disenfranchised were democrats.

Almost as soon as the election was decided and Bush was sworn in, Florida flip flopped its laws and granted the right to vote to felons granted clemency in other states. What a coincidence.

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by BanMe
Florida paid a company named DBT(run by republicans) around 4 million dollars to count its votes. There was bidding, and DBT had the highest price, yet Florida chose them over similar companies.

The number of voters purged from the list unfairly could be as high as 55,000. DBT doesn't even deny the mistake, they instead blamed the state of Florida.

Florida(Bush, Harris) essentially said "screw the court rulings" and told DBT "don't worry" about making any corrections.

What court rulings? The rulings that told the Jeb and co. to stop disenfranchising convicted felons from other states who had been granted clemency upon their release from prison. You see, the motor voter law says that states like Florida who don't allow felons to vote have to recognize rulings of other states on these issues. Instead of granting the former felons the right to vote immediately, as they should've, Florida made them go through a long, complicated process that could take as long as two years! The people weren't notified until 1999, if they were lucky enough to be notified at all. Even if they did fight it, there was no guarantee that their rights would be restored in time for the election.

On top of the former felons, there were many people who were wrongly matched up with felons. Florida only wanted an 80% match rate and they didn't even bother to use Social Security numbers. This means that Steve Johnson could be matched with Steve Johanson and nothing would be changed.

So why not fix this "error"? Because 90% of the list of people who were disenfranchised were democrats.

Almost as soon as the election was decided and Bush was sworn in, Florida flip flopped its laws and granted the right to vote to felons granted clemency in other states. What a coincidence.

Wow, you really have a lot of knowledge on this. Do you live in Florida?

[BanMe]

Nah, I'm just a political science major who reads alot of books.

[Ronin]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/12/01/ncrime01.xml

"Criminologists believe that a note of caution needs to be introduced into analysis of the data, because of the different ways in which UN member countries record crimes."

Besides, I said MOST Western European countries
and the UK has much much much lower rate of violent crimes involving firearms.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by Ronin
"Criminologists believe that a note of caution needs to be introduced into analysis of the data, because of the different ways in which UN member countries record crimes."

Besides, I said MOST Western European countries
and the UK has much much much lower rate of violent crimes involving firearms.

but they have a "much much much" higher rate of crime...........

[Ronin]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
but they have a "much much much" higher rate of crime...........

That's one country

Find me some stats for France, Germany, Italy (well, maybe not Italy...), Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Poland, Spain, Portugal, Greece, etc etc etc

[MestNFG]

Originally posted by BustaNutz
You were listening to punk music like Mest and NFG? How hardcore are you? Wow I wish I could meet a few more true punks like yourself. You've been listening to punk before I could spell the word. So you've been listening to shitty music for 12 years? Poor thing. Well I can see your taste hasn't gotten any better, asshole.

And when you make a stupid anti-government statement like that, of course you're going to catch shit for it. It was a dumbass thing to say. Of course politicians lie, it's common sense they do, but the way you state it liek you're some enlightened anarchist who has any idea what you're talking about is a joke. The rest of your posts are relevant, and worth reading but one as dumb as that deserves any shit that it gets. And as for your little run back to mommy statement, I take exception to that, because despite my age, I'm quite in tune with what goes on in the world. It interests me quite a bit, I'd like to pursue a career in international affairs or journalism and as a result of that interest I spend a lot of time reading up on relevant issues such as these. As for the comments I made in the other thread, I was venting some steam and you got the brunt of it, if you want to make it an issue I'd be gald to oblige you, or if you want ot let it slide for what it was that's fine. My point is this, don't make ignorant statements and generalizations about thing you know nothing about such as my political knowledge.

First of...I never claimed to be "hardcore" I don't need to label myself. Unlike you.....your only continuious argument for anything to is rip people's taste in music. Very mature. Most of your posts indicate you are a pretty intellegent young man, but you continue to resort to childish antics like ripping what music people listen. WHO FUCKING CARES? GET OVER IT....and somebody just might take you seriously one day

Second, don't EVER accuse me being anarchist or anti-governement. I was an Army Ranger who served my country proudly before becoming a cop in Minneapolis, and starting next week, New York City. Are there good politicans? yes....sadly one of the best, Paul Wellstone of MN, was killed in a plane crash earlier this year. Equally as sad, was the fact that he was the exception to what Washington has, and not the norm.

If you can cut out the childish and pointless bullshit of ripping band sand music, i would be more than happy to talk to you.

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by MestNFG
First of...I never claimed to be "hardcore" I don't need to label myself. Unlike you.....your only continuious argument for anything to is rip people's taste in music. Very mature. Most of your posts indicate you are a pretty intellegent young man, but you continue to resort to childish antics like ripping what music people listen. WHO FUCKING CARES? GET OVER IT....and somebody just might take you seriously one day

Second, don't EVER accuse me being anarchist or anti-governement. I was an Army Ranger who served my country proudly before becoming a cop in Minneapolis, and starting next week, New York City. Are there good politicans? yes....sadly one of the best, Paul Wellstone of MN, was killed in a plane crash earlier this year. Equally as sad, was the fact that he was the exception to what Washington has, and not the norm.

If you can cut out the childish and pointless bullshit of ripping band sand music, i would be more than happy to talk to you.

Ok my apologies, I don't apologize very often but you came on rather negatively and I over-reacted. I have nothing but respect for the fact you served and are a cop, and I know there are good politicians.

That being said, please cut it out with 17 year-old BS. I may be 17 but I can contribute quite a bit to intelligent conversation and if you ask most on the forums they'll tell you I've got knowledge that goes well beyond my years. I apologize for jumping on you like that.

As for the music I don't think I brought it up THAT much but I'll cut it out with it, even though I do think Mest sucks... :D

[Ronin]

Originally posted by MestNFG
First of...I never claimed to be "hardcore" I don't need to label myself. Unlike you.....your only continuious argument for anything to is rip people's taste in music. Very mature. Most of your posts indicate you are a pretty intellegent young man, but you continue to resort to childish antics like ripping what music people listen. WHO FUCKING CARES? GET OVER IT....and somebody just might take you seriously one day

Second, don't EVER accuse me being anarchist or anti-governement. I was an Army Ranger who served my country proudly before becoming a cop in Minneapolis, and starting next week, New York City. Are there good politicans? yes....sadly one of the best, Paul Wellstone of MN, was killed in a plane crash earlier this year. Equally as sad, was the fact that he was the exception to what Washington has, and not the norm.

If you can cut out the childish and pointless bullshit of ripping band sand music, i would be more than happy to talk to you.

You said

"I was listening to punk before you could even spell the fuckin word"

I think that's labelling right there. You're punker than thou and you brought it up

Congrats on having been an Army Ranger. HOOAH, you're in good shape, that doesn't really matter.

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by MestNFG


Are there good politicans? yes....sadly one of the best, Paul Wellstone of MN, was killed in a plane crash earlier this year. Equally as sad, was the fact that he was the exception to what Washington has, and not the norm.



Amen. Amen. Amen.


too bad the memorial got out of hand.

[MestNFG]

BustaNut....apology accpeted. peace made.....;)

Ronin....touche on the "label"call. And, yes, i am in shape. Being only 5'9 my size wouldn't be very intimidating as a cop, so had to work out and take martial arts. :D

BossyDaCow......no kidding. somebody always has to ruin something....

[MestNFG]

On a side note, since we are discussing politics, here's something my sister sent me.....

Can you imagine working for a company that has a little more than 500 employees and has the following statistics:

29 have been accused of spousal abuse
7 have been arrested for fraud
19 have been accused of writing bad checks
117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses
3 have done time for assault
71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
14 have been arrested on drug-related charges
8 have been arrested for shoplifting
21 are currently defendants in lawsuits
84 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year

It's the 535 members of the United States Congress. The same group of idiots that crank out hundreds of new laws each year designed to keep the rest of us in line.


^Kinda says it all, doesn't it? :(

[Ronin]

I know nothing about this Mr. Wellstone from Minnesota

What was he all about, and what happened at his funeral?

[WithStamin]

Originally posted by Ronin
I know nothing about this Mr. Wellstone from Minnesota

What was he all about, and what happened at his funeral? Nothing special, except for overcrowding.

Read about it here. (http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/10/29/elec02.mn.s.memorial/)

[evil zach]

Originally posted by MestNFG
Second, don't EVER accuse me being anarchist or anti-governement.
you say that like its a bad thing

[BrandNewDream]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BanMe
Nah, I'm just a political science major who reads alot of books. [/QUOTE

Such as "Stupid White Men"? I remember all of that being discussed.

[BrandNewDream]

Originally posted by MestNFG
On a side note, since we are discussing politics, here's something my sister sent me.....

Can you imagine working for a company that has a little more than 500 employees and has the following statistics:

29 have been accused of spousal abuse
7 have been arrested for fraud
19 have been accused of writing bad checks
117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses
3 have done time for assault
71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
14 have been arrested on drug-related charges
8 have been arrested for shoplifting
21 are currently defendants in lawsuits
84 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year

It's the 535 members of the United States Congress. The same group of idiots that crank out hundreds of new laws each year designed to keep the rest of us in line.


^Kinda says it all, doesn't it? :(

Unfortunately, yes, it does...however, the people voting don't even have a choice. In about 385 of the 435 Congressional elections this past November, only about 50 were considered close (I believe the number was 7% or lower). I have to run, I'll try to be back with a source on that, if I can find the article.

Found my source..http://www.ncec.org/images/election2002/map6_pdf.pdf

By taking even a tiny sample of the results, it is evident that the vast majority of elections were won by at least 10% or more. By my count, only 32 of the elections where full results were provided were won by less than 10%. I know in the "big picture" sense, everyone has a choice, but realistically, wouldn't a choice constitute an election where each candidate has a realistic chance of winning? It's sad to see that in so many elections, the non-dominant party's candidate is simply a sacrificial lamb. I understand that in many areas, the people living there will be vastly conservative or liberal, however, you would think that the opposing party could do a better job of energizing their faithful within the area. Either that, or it just shows how apathetic the general public is towards elections, and that most votes are "empty", and cast with no true feeling.

[Matthew]

Originally posted by BrandNewDream

By taking even a tiny sample of the results, it is evident that the vast majority of elections were won by at least 10% or more. By my count, only 32 of the elections where full results were provided were won by less than 10%. I know in the "big picture" sense, everyone has a choice, but realistically, wouldn't a choice constitute an election where each candidate has a realistic chance of winning? It's sad to see that in so many elections, the non-dominant party's candidate is simply a sacrificial lamb. I understand that in many areas, the people living there will be vastly conservative or liberal, however, you would think that the opposing party could do a better job of energizing their faithful within the area. Either that, or it just shows how apathetic the general public is towards elections, and that most votes are "empty", and cast with no true feeling.

Most people dont follwo politics, thats the trouble. Thsi lady from Texas Media Watch spoke at a semianr i went to, and what she said was pretty shocking.

30% of voters - ALWAYS vote republican.
30% of voters - ALWAYS vote democrat.
26%- Somewhat follow the issues. May Know a bit of who stands for what.
14%- Really grasp the issues.

[BrandNewDream]

Originally posted by Matthew
Most people dont follwo politics, thats the trouble. Thsi lady from Texas Media Watch spoke at a semianr i went to, and what she said was pretty shocking.

30% of voters - ALWAYS vote republican.
30% of voters - ALWAYS vote democrat.
26%- Somewhat follow the issues. May Know a bit of who stands for what.
14%- Really grasp the issues.

Exactly. And what's worse is that more than 14% of people won't stop yapping about problems within our society and within their lives, but they can't seem to educate themselves about the issue at hand, and the issues in general. No wonder we have the lowest voter turnout amongst the world powers.

[MestNFG]

One reason why, at the time, Jesse Ventura was such a breath of fresh air here in Minnesota. He told it like it was (something a lot of people have a problem with) and that was so unusual for a politician.

I liked him because I am a wrestling fan :D , he called the media "jackels" (something that having delt with them at a crime scene, I can attest that it's a well DESERVED nickname and one they definatly EARNED), and the fact that he was neither a Republican or a Democrat. A breath of fresh air who didn't bullshit people, told the truth, and if he didn't like you ro something government related he wasn't shy in letting people know about it.

Towards the end he fell out of favor with some people because of some of his self-promotion and they decided that suger coated lies wer ebetter than the cold, hard facts of truth, but that's another story for another thread.

[MestNFG]

We need more third party candidates like him and more "real people" and less "career politicians" who's only ambition is to get to Washington and to better help themselves and no tthe people who elected them to office.

[BanMe]

Originally posted by BrandNewDream
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BanMe
Nah, I'm just a political science major who reads alot of books. [/QUOTE

Such as "Stupid White Men"? I remember all of that being discussed.

Actually, I got it from "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" by Greg Palast, it's a good book and I'd recommend it to anyone who's interested in such things.

I'm not a big fan of Michael Moore, he twists the facts too much.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by Matthew
So I was at this leadership seminar a few weeks back and this republican lady gave a speech about how the Republican party has always been about freedom. Freedom is their frist perogative blah blah blah.

So they have this segment where you can ask a few questions of the speaker, and this is what I asked...

"If the Republican party is about "freedom", than why is it that they have continued to oppose legislation that wouuld make us FREE to use marijuana, make a gay couple FREE to wed, and allow a woman to be FREE to have an abortion?"

Response: Some bullshit about how bad marijuana and abortion are, and how gays are taboo in conservative culture.

"So really, the Republican part isnt ALL ABOUT FREEDOm, they are for freedom where it is convenient for them?"

Response: Stuttering, unintelligible drivel about conservative values."

Anyone else think they can give me a better answer? I certainly hope so.
There is no such thing as complete freedom. If there were, I could track you down and kill you, and get off scotch free. Or I could stalk Britney Spears and rape her, no punishment. I could steal a Bentley, and they could do nothing, because I am just excersizing my free will. See where I am going with this....

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by MestNFG
One reason why, at the time, Jesse Ventura was such a breath of fresh air here in Minnesota. He told it like it was (something a lot of people have a problem with) and that was so unusual for a politician.

I liked him because I am a wrestling fan :D , he called the media "jackels" (something that having delt with them at a crime scene, I can attest that it's a well DESERVED nickname and one they definatly EARNED), and the fact that he was neither a Republican or a Democrat. A breath of fresh air who didn't bullshit people, told the truth, and if he didn't like you ro something government related he wasn't shy in letting people know about it.

Towards the end he fell out of favor with some people because of some of his self-promotion and they decided that suger coated lies wer ebetter than the cold, hard facts of truth, but that's another story for another thread.


Jesse Ventura was a self-absorbed asshole the entire time he served, and could hand out criticism left and right, but couldn't take any that was directed towards him. He's an embarrassment. The day Wellstone died, my dad and I were driving home, listening to KFAN, and Jesse was on. I don't remember exactly what he said, but the DJ asked him about Wellstone, and Ventura somehow managed to talk about himself instead of Wellstone. My dad and I just rolled our eyes.

and pro wrestling is pathetic.

[WithStamin]

Originally posted by bossydacow
Jesse Ventura was a self-absorbed asshole the entire time he served, and could hand out criticism left and right, but couldn't take any that was directed towards him. He's an embarrassment. The day Wellstone died, my dad and I were driving home, listening to KFAN, and Jesse was on. I don't remember exactly what he said, but the DJ asked him about Wellstone, and Ventura somehow managed to talk about himself instead of Wellstone. My dad and I just rolled our eyes.

and pro wrestling is pathetic. I'm embarrased that Ventura is a Republican.

[evil zach]

wasn't he an indipendant canidate?

[MestNFG]

Originally posted by WithStamin
I'm embarrased that Ventura is a Republican.

You should be embarrased that you have no clue what you are talking about.....he ws an independant. Green party Candidate.

[MestNFG]

Originally posted by bossydacow
and pro wrestling is pathetic.

I could proably say the same thing about most things you like too.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by MestNFG
You should be embarrased that you have no clue what you are talking about.....he ws an independant. Green party Candidate.

thats scary a green party member in power..........

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
thats scary a green party member in power..........

We've seen what republicans and democrats have done when they're in power too, they're not much better...

[bossydacow]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
thats scary a green party member in power..........

Ventura wasn't a green party member- he ran as a reform party candidate, then switched to independent.

[Matthew]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
There is no such thing as complete freedom. If there were, I could track you down and kill you, and get off scotch free. Or I could stalk Britney Spears and rape her, no punishment. I could steal a Bentley, and they could do nothing, because I am just excersizing my free will. See where I am going with this....

So any freedom the republicans want is legit, but social freedoms that the liberals request is jsut paving the road to anarchy?

[evil zach]

If the democrats are paving the road to anarchy, then I need to find a new politcal afiliation!

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by BustaNutz
We've seen what republicans and democrats have done when they're in power too, they're not much better...

......i'd have to disagree with that, i'd say either party is much better then a parties whos main platform is based on extreme environmentalism..........

[Matthew]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
......i'd have to disagree with that, i'd say either party is much better then a parties whos main platform is based on extreme environmentalism..........

Why? I think the environment is one of the most important, and most neglected issues in modern politics. We're ddoing a lot of damage to it mainly to save money, and some of the damage is irreperable. Some of the effects are going on to cause masive sicknes, deformities, and fatalities in animal speies around the world, including humans. Despite the sevrity of the issue, anyone who tries to address it is labeled as a "tree-hugger".

I think the environment is a much better issue to run on than tax cuts.

(there's my 2 cents. I still at camp so i prolly wont psot again for awhile)

[Justin_stacy]

i never said that the environment wasn't an important issue......it just shouldn't be a parties main platform.....because no matter what people always come first and should be the priority in any decision...........

[evil zach]

looking after the enviroment is putting people first! we need an healthy enviroment to live. I live in a town of about 74, 000 people. When I go outside its really hard to breath due to smog and other polution. I can only imagine what ist like in larger cities. My health, and the heatlth of others is being negativly effected because of our poor enviroment.

[Matthew]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
i never said that the environment wasn't an important issue......it just shouldn't be a parties main platform.....because no matter what people always come first and should be the priority in any decision...........

First of all the environment probably has one fo the single greatest impacts on people's physical well being thn any other issue. pollution cuases birth defects, disease, and particulate air pollution alone kills over 60,000 people annually.

besides the other parties dont put PEOPLE first.... they put people's wallets first. if you vote republcian you've already elected a green party into office.... they're jsut concerned with a different kind of greenery.

[yeat182]

Originally posted by evil zach
looking after the enviroment is putting people first! we need an healthy enviroment to live. I live in a town of about 74, 000 people. When I go outside its really hard to breath due to smog and other polution. I can only imagine what ist like in larger cities. My health, and the heatlth of others is being negativly effected because of our poor enviroment.

every see any video of the los angeles skyline, there is a permanent haze over the whole city, the smog is so bad there that most movies and tv shows can't shoot the skyline like they can in New York or London, its ridiculous. protecting the environment is important to everyone...but i don't think the extremists like greenpeace and peta have the right idea. i say protect the evironment to protect ourselves, not hurt ourselves to save the environment.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by Matthew

besides the other parties dont put PEOPLE first.... they put people's wallets first. if you vote republcian you've already elected a green party into office.... they're jsut concerned with a different kind of greenery.

wow, how can i agrue with such a profondly truthful statement?

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by Matthew
First of all the environment probably has one fo the single greatest impacts on people's physical well being thn any other issue. pollution cuases birth defects, disease, and particulate air pollution alone kills over 60,000 people annually.


again you miss understand........i said extreme environmentalism was bad..........not environmentialism as a hole..........and as for the environment impacting our lives, i wont disagree with that at all, but most of what these extremist speak out on or protests, has very little postive effects for humans and mostly only cause problems and damages.........

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
again you miss understand........i said extreme environmentalism was bad..........not environmentialism as a hole..........and as for the environment impacting our lives, i wont disagree with that at all, but most of what these extremist speak out on or protests, has very little postive effects for humans and mostly only cause problems and damages.........

You're right there, most of the prostestors do nothing but cause a scene. And most do it specifically to cause a scene. And extreme environmentalism is definitely a waste of time, there comes a point where you can no longer take people seriously, and they've reached that point, and gone far over it.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by BustaNutz
You're right there, most of the prostestors do nothing but cause a scene. And most do it specifically to cause a scene. And extreme environmentalism is definitely a waste of time, there comes a point where you can no longer take people seriously, and they've reached that point, and gone far over it.

hey what do you have against Martha Stewart?^

[BustaNutz]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
hey what do you have against Martha Stewart?^

Ohhh, hehe, I had to do a Rastafarianism project for theology, and many Rasta's believe that white people are the devil. So I took a Martha Stewart picture (in accordance to her reputation as being an uber-bitch) and gave her devil horns and a pitch fork. Personally I just think she's bossy, and she cheats on the stock market.