People disappoint me sometimes (Prop 8)

[LostAllways]

I'm glad people suddenly become politicians and activists on days like this, but I wish they cared about bigger problems. Don't ask me what bigger problems are, please. We all know there are bigger problems in this world than a trivial ruling on same-sex marriage that's just going to get appealed, and then appealed again, and again. Look at the bigger fucking picture.

[Broken Parachute]

What bigger problems do you speak of?

[GeeBee]

I'm glad people suddenly become politicians and activists on days like this, but I wish they cared about bigger problems. Don't ask me what bigger problems are, please. We all know there are bigger problems in this world than a trivial ruling on same-sex marriage that's just going to get appealed, and then appealed again, and again. Look at the bigger fucking picture.

Please, enlighten us, dear teenager, as to what domestic issue trumps that of equal rights for all in this fair country?

[paper halo]

Hold up everyone, there's no time to go celebrating trivial little civil rights victories, we need to look at the bigger fucking picture.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

I'm glad people suddenly become politicians and activists on days like this, but I wish they cared about bigger problems. Don't ask me what bigger problems are, please. We all know there are bigger problems in this world than a trivial ruling on same-sex marriage that's just going to get appealed, and then appealed again, and again. Look at the bigger fucking picture.

Churches should be focusing their funds and resources to fighting poverty and hunger around the world, not abortion and gay marriage.

[LostAllways]

What bigger problems do you speak of?

Please, enlighten us, dear teenager, as to what domestic issue trumps that of equal rights for all in this fair country?

Hm, okay. Let's see. Economicists from the Copenhagen Consensus say that putting $27 billion into AIDS/HIV prevention today can prevent 30 million infections in two years' time. We could put some money into feeding people, so that 20,000 people don't die every day of malnutrition/starvation. That adds up, by the way -- about 7 million people DIE of malnutrition every year. But guess what? We need equal MARRIAGE laws for all people, so let's talk about that because it's more important. Some other problems? Trade liberalization. Malaria. Providing education for all.

How about solving conflicts such as the one my grandfather was killed by last week in Palestine? I'm Palestinian, and I feel that the fact that my family back home is being oppressed and stripped of their god given rights by the Zionists in Israel is pretty important, but guess what? Giving gay people the right to marriage is more important. Oh, my grandmother, two of my uncles, and countless cousins of mine have also died in Palestine, all by Israeli rocket attacks or things of that sort, in the past, say, 4-5 years. I could go on. But I feel that no matter what I say, you'll be convinced that A) I'm wrong because i'm 16 and B) equal marriage rights for gays in this country trumps giving more important rights for everyone in the world. You know, rights like the right to have food to eat and rights to have your voice heard and rights to walk from one side of a city to another without being strip-searched three times, abused, taunted, and humiliated.

Hold up everyone, there's no time to go celebrating trivial little civil rights victories, we need to look at the bigger fucking picture.

Who said you can't celebrate? Celebrate, sir.

[GeeBee]

Who said you can't celebrate? Celebrate, sir.

Uhh...

I'm glad people suddenly become politicians and activists on days like this, but I wish they cared about bigger problems. Don't ask me what bigger problems are, please. We all know there are bigger problems in this world than a trivial ruling on same-sex marriage that's just going to get appealed, and then appealed again, and again. Look at the bigger fucking picture.

[GeeBee]

Hm, okay. Let's see. Economicists from the Copenhagen Consensus say that putting $27 billion into AIDS/HIV prevention today can prevent 30 million infections in two years' time. We could put some money into feeding people, so that 20,000 people don't die every day of malnutrition/starvation. That adds up, by the way -- about 7 million people DIE of malnutrition every year. But guess what? We need equal MARRIAGE laws for all people, so let's talk about that because it's more important. Some other problems? Trade liberalization. Malaria. Providing education for all.

How about solving conflicts such as the one my grandfather was killed by last week in Palestine? I'm Palestinian, and I feel that the fact that my family back home is being oppressed and stripped of their god given rights by the Zionists in Israel is pretty important, but guess what? Giving gay people the right to marriage is more important. Oh, my grandmother, two of my uncles, and countless cousins of mine have also died in Palestine, all by Israeli rocket attacks or things of that sort, in the past, say, 4-5 years. I could go on. But I feel that no matter what I say, you'll be convinced that A) I'm wrong because i'm 16 and B) equal marriage rights for gays in this country trumps giving more important rights for everyone in the world. You know, rights like the right to have food to eat and rights to have your voice heard and rights to walk from one side of a city to another without being strip-searched three times, abused, taunted, and humiliated.

Apparently people shouldn't walk and chew gum at the same time, either.

[LostAllways]

Uhh...

Celebrate, but don't make it seem like this is the biggest, or only problem in the world. People here in California fight so hard for things like equal rights for gays. I wish they did the same for other issues, that, in my opinion, are more important. Gay people aren't going to die if they don't get their equal marriage rights, which I'm completely for.

[GeeBee]

Celebrate, but don't make it seem like this is the biggest, or only problem in the world. People here in California fight so hard for things like equal rights for gays. I wish they did the same for other issues, that, in my opinion, are more important. Gay people aren't going to die if they don't get their equal marriage rights, which I'm completely for.
No one's done that.

You fix what you can fix. It's not like a court ruling would fix world hunger or famine, jackass.

[LostAllways]

No one's done that.

My Facebook feed has to differ.


You fix what you can fix. It's not like a court ruling would fix world hunger or famine, jackass.

A court ruling could help a lot.

[GeeBee]

My Facebook feed has to differ.

A mere 90 minutes after the ruling was issued, and people STILL haven't calmed down on Facebook? Sheesh.
:rolleyes:

[LostAllways]

A mere 90 minutes after the ruling was issued, and people STILL haven't calmed down on Facebook? Sheesh.
:rolleyes:

Oh, people have been talking about it for at least 3 weeks in advance, and I'm sure they'll be talking about it for another month or two.

[GeeBee]

Oh, people have been talking about it for at least 3 weeks in advance, and I'm sure they'll be talking about it for another month or two.

Sounds good. I'm not gonna argue with you. I've got more celebrating to do, and more starving people to not care about in the process, apparently.

[crackedthesky]

I'm glad people suddenly become politicians and activists on days like this, but I wish they cared about bigger problems. Don't ask me what bigger problems are, please. We all know there are bigger problems in this world than a trivial ruling on same-sex marriage that's just going to get appealed, and then appealed again, and again. Look at the bigger fucking picture.

It's not going to be appealed, because the law is unconstitutional.

But yeah, I agree, sticking your fingers in your ears and closing your eyes while shoving your way of life down everyone else's throat is the best way to go about things.

[Broken Parachute]

Civil Rights is part of the big fucking picture you idiot. If we were to prioritize all the different issues on a scale from top to bottom, things would never be fixed. The big fucking picture is a bunch of little puzzle pieces which need to be dealt with individually. The big fucking picture, as you say, is apparently to incomprehensible for you to understand because if you did understand it, you would know Civil Rights is a pretty important piece of the puzzle.

You deal with what you can deal with, no matter how big or small.

[blackdaisyx]

I don't even know what to say to this. I am really sorry about all the shit you've got, kid...but you do need to understand that people will fight for what's important to them. If I were an American citizen, I would be fighting against Prop 8 with all I have. I'm just lucky enough that our country allows gay marriage already. I would feel terribly discriminated against if I couldn't marry the person I loved. What I'm trying to say is that while it might not affect you all that much, it affects gay Americans immensely. It does piss me off that the bill is going to get appealed multiple times, but it does not make the issue any less important that what you consider to be important.

That said, I cannot do anything about all of the other problems that you spoke of. If I ever had the means or resources, maybe I would make a difference somewhere across the world. However, I am only able to deal with the issues in my own life and being a gay person, gay rights are extremely important to me.

I don't want to say that your statement is offensive, but I do believe that you should think about the fact that priorities are different in everyone's life. If the gays want to fight for their right to marry, I don't think it's right for you to say that we should be focused on "bigger problems". Don't you want to get married one day? Well, so do I and so do gay Californians.

[LostAllways]

It's not going to be appealed, because the law is unconstitutional.

But yeah, I agree, sticking your fingers in your ears and closing your eyes while shoving your way of life down everyone else's throat is the best way to go about things.

You're kidding, right? It's going to be appealed for sure, there's no argument about that. Do a little reading.

And I'm sorry if it seems that way. I'm not sticking my fingers in my ears, I've just grown weary of this whole gay marriage thing. The court system is flawed and gay marriage serves as a constant distraction because of it. It should've been rules unconstitutional forever ago, and an appeal shouldn't be possible. But no surprises here, it was just ruled unconstitutional today, 2 years after it was passed, and again, it's going to be appealed by the conservative bigots and run another however many years years through the court system.

I'm just a self-righteous high school senior going into international law because I feel like the problems that are closest to my heart, and I suppose my brain, are not just in America, but all over the world.

[GeeBee]

You're kidding, right? It's going to be appealed for sure, there's no argument about that. Do a little reading.

And I'm sorry if it seems that way. I'm not sticking my fingers in my ears, I've just grown weary of this whole gay marriage thing. The court system is flawed and gay marriage serves as a constant distraction because of it. It should've been rules unconstitutional forever ago, and an appeal shouldn't be possible. But no surprises here, it was just ruled unconstitutional today, 2 years after it was passed, and again, it's going to be appealed by the conservative bigots and run another however many years years through the court system.

I'm just a self-righteous high school senior going into international law because I feel like the problems that are closest to my heart, and I suppose my brain, are not just in America, but all over the world.

You're creating a false dichotomy where none exists. Issues and caring about them are not mutually exclusive.

You're a moron.

[Broken Parachute]

Oh, I didn't realize we were dealing with a fucking superhero here. I apologize.

[Scrandon]

America is not the world's babysitter.

[crackedthesky]

You're kidding, right? It's going to be appealed for sure, there's no argument about that. Do a little reading.


Enlighten me then, Oh Great One.



And I'm sorry if it seems that way.



It "seems" that way because that's what you said.


I'm not sticking my fingers in my ears, I've just grown weary of this whole gay marriage thing.


So because you're weary, you start a thread about it on the internet?


The court system is flawed and gay marriage serves as a constant distraction because of it. It should've been rules unconstitutional forever ago, and an appeal shouldn't be possible. But no surprises here, it was just ruled unconstitutional today, 2 years after it was passed, and again, it's going to be appealed by the conservative bigots and run another however many years years through the court system.


You have no idea how the court system works, do you? There's a certain point where appeals no longer apply. Something has to go through the local court systems, and then, if needed, they make it to the Supreme Court, and then it's pretty much a law forever. Unless another Supreme Court wants to get rid of it, or Congress rallies together to overturn it.


I'm just a self-righteous high school senior going into international law because I feel like the problems that are closest to my heart, and I suppose my brain, are not just in America, but all over the world.

That had absolutely nothing to do with anything at all.

[Max_123]

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm131/ChineseGuyWithAMustache/JustinBieberYouMad2.gif

[spiffa0]

18 is when you should be able to have real opinions.

[Broken Parachute]

18 is when you should be able to have real opinions.There are a few people who post here that are under 18 and have greater insight than some 25 year old posters.

[crackedthesky]

I can think of a lot of people aged 35-80 who have some really shitty world views.

[loveisdead]

There are a few people who post here that are under 18 and have greater insight than some 25 year old posters.

I'm looking at you, machu matt.

[Broken Parachute]

I'm looking at you, machu matt.That's the first person I thought of. I remember when he was barely 14 and formulating better arguments than people twice his age.

[JordanBuell]

Hm, okay. Let's see. Economicists from the Copenhagen Consensus say that putting $27 billion into AIDS/HIV prevention today can prevent 30 million infections in two years' time. We could put some money into feeding people, so that 20,000 people don't die every day of malnutrition/starvation. That adds up, by the way -- about 7 million people DIE of malnutrition every year. But guess what? We need equal MARRIAGE laws for all people, so let's talk about that because it's more important. Some other problems? Trade liberalization. Malaria. Providing education for all.

How about solving conflicts such as the one my grandfather was killed by last week in Palestine? I'm Palestinian, and I feel that the fact that my family back home is being oppressed and stripped of their god given rights by the Zionists in Israel is pretty important, but guess what? Giving gay people the right to marriage is more important. Oh, my grandmother, two of my uncles, and countless cousins of mine have also died in Palestine, all by Israeli rocket attacks or things of that sort, in the past, say, 4-5 years. I could go on. But I feel that no matter what I say, you'll be convinced that A) I'm wrong because i'm 16 and B) equal marriage rights for gays in this country trumps giving more important rights for everyone in the world. You know, rights like the right to have food to eat and rights to have your voice heard and rights to walk from one side of a city to another without being strip-searched three times, abused, taunted, and humiliated.





lol wut? All you said in the first paragraph was economic issues. This is not really an economic issue as much as a moral issue. Im sure nearly 100 percent of the people in this country would love to save the majority of the worlds from HIV/AIDS/Malaria/Give education and food to the world, but that is a much more difficult problem to solve than just overturning a law that shouldn't have existed in the first place. So to see clear and obvious discrimination over turned, this makes people happy. This marks a milestone to actual equality for everyone in this country.

Also dont even say that there isnt awesome shit going down as far as raising money for the issues you have brought up in the first paragraph. Today america's richest got a little bit less greedy (http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2010/06/16/2010-06-16_bill_gates_and_warren_buffett_as k_oprah_bloomberg_other_billionaire s_to_give_big.html)

As far as your second paragraph? Yeah i don't think we should be support Israel. It just seems wrong. I agree with you on that point and if we announced that we stopped supporting Israel (yeah i know thats not going to happen anytime soon) I bet there will be a really large response to that too. So give the people the right to enjoy a milestone in american history.

[Scrandon]

Also, congrats to the op for being too dense to realize that the plight of homosexuals and those in poverty are essentially one in the same; a struggle to achieve basic human rights and equality.

[loveisdead]

That's the first person I thought of. I remember when he was barely 14 and formulating better arguments than people twice his age.

Yeah, he's awesome.

[Broken Parachute]

Yeah, he's awesome.Also, joining this site when I was 15 has made me realize how awful it is being a kid on a message board. So much of what I used to say would get ignored or mocked because I was 15 or 16. I'm glad I'm out of that zone now, haha.

[ohitsmark]

How about solving conflicts such as the one my grandfather was killed by last week in Palestine? I'm Palestinian, and I feel that the fact that my family back home is being oppressed and stripped of their god given rights by the Zionists in Israel is pretty important, but guess what? Giving gay people the right to marriage is more important. Oh, my grandmother, two of my uncles, and countless cousins of mine have also died in Palestine, all by Israeli rocket attacks or things of that sort, in the past, say, 4-5 years. I could go on. But I feel that no matter what I say, you'll be convinced that A) I'm wrong because i'm 16 and B) equal marriage rights for gays in this country trumps giving more important rights for everyone in the world. You know, rights like the right to have food to eat and rights to have your voice heard and rights to walk from one side of a city to another without being strip-searched three times, abused, taunted, and humiliated.


What's happening in Palestine is their problem. America doesn't enforce those laws over there.

[crackedthesky]

What's happening in Palestine is their problem. America doesn't enforce those laws over there.

You and the OP are both wrong in assuming America can only focus on one problem at a time.
For example, a judge ruling in California has absolutely nothing at all to do with what happens in Palestine. It's not like we're diverting attention from Palestine to legalize gay marriage in California.

[anamericangod]

What's happening in Palestine is their problem. America doesn't enforce those laws over there.

Oh boy.

[spiffa0]

There are a few people who post here that are under 18 and have greater insight than some 25 year old posters.

As always, there are exceptions to every rule. I was just picking an arbitrary age for the sake of argument. This kid is 16 and thinks he knows the way of the world. I'm not buying it.

[Broken Parachute]

As always, there are exceptions to every rule. I was just picking an arbitrary age for the sake of argument. This kid is 16 and thinks he knows the way of the world. I'm not buying it.No, I completely understand you. I was just making a comment. I remember what I was like when I was 16, so I also sometimes empathize with them.

[LostAllways]

You're creating a false dichotomy where none exists. Issues and caring about them are not mutually exclusive.

You're a moron.

Civil Rights is part of the big fucking picture you idiot. If we were to prioritize all the different issues on a scale from top to bottom, things would never be fixed. The big fucking picture is a bunch of little puzzle pieces which need to be dealt with individually. The big fucking picture, as you say, is apparently to incomprehensible for you to understand because if you did understand it, you would know Civil Rights is a pretty important piece of the puzzle.

You deal with what you can deal with, no matter how big or small.

I don't even know what to say to this. I am really sorry about all the shit you've got, kid...but you do need to understand that people will fight for what's important to them. If I were an American citizen, I would be fighting against Prop 8 with all I have. I'm just lucky enough that our country allows gay marriage already. I would feel terribly discriminated against if I couldn't marry the person I loved. What I'm trying to say is that while it might not affect you all that much, it affects gay Americans immensely. It does piss me off that the bill is going to get appealed multiple times, but it does not make the issue any less important that what you consider to be important.

That said, I cannot do anything about all of the other problems that you spoke of. If I ever had the means or resources, maybe I would make a difference somewhere across the world. However, I am only able to deal with the issues in my own life and being a gay person, gay rights are extremely important to me.

I don't want to say that your statement is offensive, but I do believe that you should think about the fact that priorities are different in everyone's life. If the gays want to fight for their right to marry, I don't think it's right for you to say that we should be focused on "bigger problems". Don't you want to get married one day? Well, so do I and so do gay Californians.

lol wut? All you said in the first paragraph was economic issues. This is not really an economic issue as much as a moral issue. Im sure nearly 100 percent of the people in this country would love to save the majority of the worlds from HIV/AIDS/Malaria/Give education and food to the world, but that is a much more difficult problem to solve than just overturning a law that shouldn't have existed in the first place. So to see clear and obvious discrimination over turned, this makes people happy. This marks a milestone to actual equality for everyone in this country.

Also dont even say that there isnt awesome shit going down as far as raising money for the issues you have brought up in the first paragraph. Today america's richest got a little bit less greedy (http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2010/06/16/2010-06-16_bill_gates_and_warren_buffett_as k_oprah_bloomberg_other_billionaire s_to_give_big.html)

As far as your second paragraph? Yeah i don't think we should be support Israel. It just seems wrong. I agree with you on that point and if we announced that we stopped supporting Israel (yeah i know thats not going to happen anytime soon) I bet there will be a really large response to that too. So give the people the right to enjoy a milestone in american history.


Well, I just want to tell you guys what I had on my mind, and I wanted to see how my opinion weighed in with the rest of you APers, and I have to say, I've learned a lot from you guys. Thanks for actually giving me solid criticisms and arguments instead of just calling me an idiot and moving on. I'm definitely going to have a lot to rethink, and hopefully my opinions are a little less stupid next time I feel like putting them out there. If they are even in the slightest more nuanced, I have you to thank. Even you, GeeBee, despite how stupid you think I am. haha

[Broken Parachute]

Opinions aren't stupid so don't apologize for your opinions. Just think clearly about your arguments before you make them.

[ohitsmark]

You and the OP are both wrong in assuming America can only focus on one problem at a time.
For example, a judge ruling in California has absolutely nothing at all to do with what happens in Palestine. It's not like we're diverting attention from Palestine to legalize gay marriage in California.

I understand. I just don't think that its America's problem how stuff over there is dealt with or whatever. Maybe it is? I don't know, I'm not a politician.

Oh boy.

What I do? :shrug:

[LostAllways]

I understand. I just don't think that its America's problem how stuff over there is dealt with or whatever. Maybe it is? I don't know, I'm not a politician.

It is when America is funding Israel.

[rawspinner]

Churches should be focusing their funds and resources to fighting poverty and hunger around the world, not abortion and gay marriage.

This is the best response I have ever read anywhere. You must actually be Jake Gyllenhaal, you speak with such wisdom.

Hm, okay. Let's see. Economicists from the Copenhagen Consensus say that putting $27 billion into AIDS/HIV prevention today can prevent 30 million infections in two years' time. We could put some money into feeding people, so that 20,000 people don't die every day of malnutrition/starvation. That adds up, by the way -- about 7 million people DIE of malnutrition every year. But guess what? We need equal MARRIAGE laws for all people, so let's talk about that because it's more important. Some other problems? Trade liberalization. Malaria. Providing education for all.

How about solving conflicts such as the one my grandfather was killed by last week in Palestine? I'm Palestinian, and I feel that the fact that my family back home is being oppressed and stripped of their god given rights by the Zionists in Israel is pretty important, but guess what? Giving gay people the right to marriage is more important. Oh, my grandmother, two of my uncles, and countless cousins of mine have also died in Palestine, all by Israeli rocket attacks or things of that sort, in the past, say, 4-5 years. I could go on. But I feel that no matter what I say, you'll be convinced that A) I'm wrong because i'm 16 and B) equal marriage rights for gays in this country trumps giving more important rights for everyone in the world. You know, rights like the right to have food to eat and rights to have your voice heard and rights to walk from one side of a city to another without being strip-searched three times, abused, taunted, and humiliated.



Who said you can't celebrate? Celebrate, sir.

It is when America is funding Israel.

So in response to your posts above, I would say America getting involved in international issues is what created tons of problems as well. We were talking about this at a Bible study last night. The Western Civilization delusion is that our idea of poverty is not the same as others everywhere. The best way I can illustrate it is using the example of the Europeans first meeting aboriginals or Africans. They see the way they're living and automatically label it "primitive" or "savage" which isn't really the case. They use it as an excuse to either exploit them for slave labor, or to force their ideaolgies and cuture upon them. Now I'm not supporting elitism at all, because I think that poverty is definitely harmful on an international scale when it leads to human rights violations such as sex trafficking, genocide, and use of child soldiers. But I believe that while it is noble and just to fight for these causes overseas, a lot of shit happens back home and we should take care of that as well.

[quesosauce]

http://i32.tinypic.com/2vjueyb.jpg

[heyguys123]

You have no idea how the court system works, do you? There's a certain point where appeals no longer apply. Something has to go through the local court systems, and then, if needed, they make it to the Supreme Court, and then it's pretty much a law forever. Unless another Supreme Court wants to get rid of it, or Congress rallies together to overturn it.



i usually try to avoid playing the "i'm a lawyer" card, but this is so far off i can't resist. i'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say, but a federal district court decision on a constitutional issue like this is certainly going to be appealed to the circuit court, and most likely to the US supreme court unless it's something they don't want to decide on (eg. want to wait for congress to address the issue, or just want to stay the fuck away from it).

the district court opinion is invalidating the law based on the federal constitution, which means anything the state courts have said previously doesn't really mean anything.

[blackdaisyx]

Churches should be focusing their funds and resources to fighting poverty and hunger around the world, not abortion and gay marriage.

This is a brilliant statement. It's interesting that you say this, because I found a link to the article stating that Prop 8 was overturned (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/04/proposition-8-overturned_n_670739.html#) and in the article they definitely mentioned that the No on Prop 8 campaign was "the most expensive political campaign on a social issue in U.S. history". Pretty fucked up, IMO.

[fightinirish217]

Hater (moron) in the house!

http://rlv.zcache.com/im_sad_because_youre_dumb_poster-p228922035410520267qzz0_400.jpg

[germypill]

It is when America is funding Israel.
Israel doesn't even need our help. The Israeli army is pure badass.

[Love As Arson]

Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
-MLK

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

This is the best response I have ever read anywhere. You must actually be Jake Gyllenhaal, you speak with such wisdom.

Sadly, I am not the real Jake Gyllenhaal. However, I made that post because I remember an ABC News segment a few months ago about a group of young Christians who denounced most church efforts regarding social issues and suggest less time should be spent on gay marriage and abortion and more time fighting world poverty and hunger. In addition, a book I read for a college course (which I still own) is called "God's Politics" by a progressive Evangelical preacher named Jim Wallis. One section in particular I remember is that he urged Christians to follow in the teachings of Jesus Christ by helping the poor and homeless.

[rawspinner]

Sadly, I am not the real Jake Gyllenhaal. However, I made that post because I remember an ABC News segment a few months ago about a group of young Christians who denounced most church efforts regarding social issues and suggest less time should be spent on gay marriage and abortion and more time fighting world poverty and hunger. In addition, a book I read for a college course (which I still own) is called "God's Politics" by a progressive Evangelical preacher named Jim Wallis. One section in particular I remember is that he urged Christians to follow in the teachings of Jesus Christ by helping the poor and homeless.

Incredible. This is really encouraging. It sucks that the religious right either spend so much time over the gay marriage issue almost more so than they do feeding the hungry. Or that since it's so much of a moreof a political issue, its gets much more media coverage. Hopefully, Christians will realize that that it is not our moral obligation to enfore our beliefs upon everyone, but that it is our heavenyl obligation to love everyone.

[rawspinner]

Israel doesn't even need our help. The Israeli army is pure badass.

Ya Krave Magra is intense, eh? I think a huge problem though is that if we did leave, Fanatical Muslim nations, and/or terrorist groups would band together and it would be devastating, so I understand that it is a sensitive issue. It sucks that we made ourself the world's police.

[germypill]

Ya Krave Magra is intense, eh? I think a huge problem though is that if we did leave, Fanatical Muslim nations, and/or terrorist groups would band together and it would be devastating, so I understand that it is a sensitive issue. It sucks that we made ourself the world's police.


I think even if we left Israel could hold it's ground. I'm not sure if you ever studied this in school but here is a link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War I really don't like linking to wikipedia but I'm busy with work/stuff.

[fightinirish217]

We can't worry about other issues both at home and around the world, as we try to continue to uphold our reputation as a free and just nation, without ensuring that our own people are all equal under the law.

In order to set an example to the rest of the world, the example has to start here at home.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

Incredible. This is really encouraging. It sucks that the religious right either spend so much time over the gay marriage issue almost more so than they do feeding the hungry. Or that since it's so much of a moreof a political issue, its gets much more media coverage. Hopefully, Christians will realize that that it is not our moral obligation to enfore our beliefs upon everyone, but that it is our heavenyl obligation to love everyone.

I like the way you think. I'm an agnostic and religiously unaffiliated. But if you are a person of faith, at least use that to promote good instead of hate.

[sjb2k1]

well, it looks like everybody took care of this one. good job guys!
(i'm being totally serious. well done, free thinkers.)

[COREhorizon]

Or you could be like the rest of us and not make a thread about it.

[samsara]

Wow.

[IntoTheSun]

I would've expected there to be a celebration thread in here or something. Jesus.

[nicwtor]

I'm glad people suddenly become politicians and activists on days like this, but I wish they cared about bigger problems. Don't ask me what bigger problems are, please. We all know there are bigger problems in this world than a trivial ruling on same-sex marriage that's just going to get appealed, and then appealed again, and again. Look at the bigger fucking picture.

I'm embarrassed to be the same age as you. Proposition 8 was a ruling that never should have gone into effect and now that it is overruled, it's one step closer to equal rights for homosexuals around the world. So what if you don't look at this as a major issue in the world, it may be big for other people.

[eriatarka24]

:locked:

[cuzimlefthanded]

There are always going to be other issues...take what you can get you little cry baby.

[cuzimlefthanded]

Also, joining this site when I was 15 has made me realize how awful it is being a kid on a message board. So much of what I used to say would get ignored or mocked because I was 15 or 16. I'm glad I'm out of that zone now, haha.
NO FUCK YOU, YOU 20 YEAR OLD KID.

[JordanBuell]

Ya Krave Magra is intense, eh? I think a huge problem though is that if we did leave, Fanatical Muslim nations, and/or terrorist groups would band together and it would be devastating, so I understand that it is a sensitive issue. It sucks that we made ourself the world's police.

you live in canada.....

[rawspinner]

I think even if we left Israel could hold it's ground. I'm not sure if you ever studied this in school but here is a link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War I really don't like linking to wikipedia but I'm busy with work/stuff.

Sometimes I wish I did not major in engineering. There is so much I never learned in high school. Also, crazy coincidence, John Stewart just referenced that war on The Daily Show.

We can't worry about other issues both at home and around the world, as we try to continue to uphold our reputation as a free and just nation, without ensuring that our own people are all equal under the law.

In order to set an example to the rest of the world, the example has to start here at home.

Good point.

[rawspinner]

you live in canada.....

I was born here, but raised in the states since I was like 3. I consider myself much more American than Canadian. Plus, I just got citizenship this past year.

[rawspinner]

I like the way you think. I'm an agnostic and religiously unaffiliated. But if you are a person of faith, at least use that to promote good instead of hate.

It's all about getting back to what JC said and not letting any other barriers take away from that.

[perceptrons]

:locked:
Great contribution. You're so subtle.

[zion the lion]

I wish I could save all those little kids from getting their limbs cut off and stop all the genocide...there you go, something bigger to me than the gays.

Israel doesn't even need our help. The Israeli army is pure badass.

When I was in Israel I noticed that a lot of those Israeli army guys are just damn sexy...which makes them more badass.

[JordanBuell]

I was born here, but raised in the states since I was like 3. I consider myself much more American than Canadian. Plus, I just got citizenship this past year.

gotcha. your hometown just threw me off a bit haha

[rickyisb182]

Personally, I think Churches of all faiths need to stay away from this issue or any other political issue. "Seperation of Church and State" comes to mind when I read threads like this. It gets really old reading about how churches are paying money to keep gays from being married. What happened to that little saying by that one guy...what was his name again? Oh yeah...Jesus...I believe it was "turn the other cheek." I don't understand how something so blatantly and utterly harmless to anyone in the United States such as prop 8 can be so "harmful" to the religious right or anyone else for that matter.

I say if churches want to start saying things in the political arena, then start paying taxes. If a church can afford to rent out the Rose Garden in Portland, OR than it's obvious that their focus is elsewhere.

Religion is dumb, plain and simple.

[rawspinner]

gotcha. your hometown just threw me off a bit haha

Just finishing up school in the 416. Prob will return to the 314.

[cuzimlefthanded]

I was born here, but raised in the states since I was like 3. I consider myself much more American than Canadian. Plus, I just got citizenship this past year.
So...depending on how closer you live to Canada...you can score some of that awesome healthcare on the basis of your citizenship right?

[cuzimlefthanded]

Personally, I think Churches of all faiths need to stay away from this issue or any other political issue. "Seperation of Church and State" comes to mind when I read threads like this. It gets really old reading about how churches are paying money to keep gays from being married. What happened to that little saying by that one guy...what was his name again? Oh yeah...Jesus...I believe it was "turn the other cheek." I don't understand how something so blatantly and utterly harmless to anyone in the United States such as prop 8 can be so "harmful" to the religious right or anyone else for that matter.

I say if churches want to start saying things in the political arena, then start paying taxes. If a church can afford to rent out the Rose Garden in Portland, OR than it's obvious that their focus is elsewhere.

Religion is dumb, plain and simple.
Nah. Buddhism is fucking amazing.

[eriatarka24]

Great contribution. You're so subtle.
lol way to take it THAT seriously.

[rawspinner]

So...depending on how closer you live to Canada...you can score some of that awesome healthcare on the basis of your citizenship right?

Most likely, currently im through the school's plan, so im not sure how the federal health care works.

[perceptrons]

lol way to take it THAT seriously.
How seriously did I take it, exactly?

[jwicklun]

Nah. Buddhism is fucking amazing.

Buddhism is probably the most chill religion out of the bunch. That religion has some of the nicest people that are not dumbasses.

[rickyisb182]

Nah. Buddhism is fucking amazing.

To me, it's neither right or wrong. None of them are. I just choose to stay away from any religion.

[perceptrons]

why did you respond the way you did? :shrug:
It just seemed like you had something to say on the issue but didn't want to, and rather than just not say anything at all, you decided to let people know that you had something to say, without saying it. Why do that?

Also, I'm not "really annoyed," it just piqued my interest. Weren't you the one going on about how people automatically assume others are butthurt all the time?

[cuzimlefthanded]

Buddhism is probably the most chill religion out of the bunch. That religion has some of the nicest people that are not dumbasses.
Yesh.
To me, it's neither right or wrong. None of them are. I just choose to stay away from any religion.

Buddhism's more about the welfare and treatment of others than it is about supernatural occurrences. Philosophically, it's right; there's no discriminating bullshit.

[eriatarka24]

It just seemed like you had something to say on the issue but didn't want to, and rather than just not say anything at all, you decided to let people know that you had something to say, without saying it. Why do that?
lmao you really jumped to THAT conclusion? O_o I didn't have anything to say other than what most people have said to the OP, which is why I put the :locked: because you know it means "locked thread" it doesn't mean I'm hiding anything....sheesh.

:/

[perceptrons]

lmao you really jumped to THAT conclusion? O_o I didn't have anything to say other than what most people have said to the OP, which is why I put the :locked: because you know it means "locked thread" it doesn't mean I'm hiding anything....sheesh.

:/
I probably only went that route in my mind based off of the previous threads I've seen you in recently. Assumptions are bad, I suppose.

[eriatarka24]

I probably only went that route in my mind based off of the previous threads I've seen you in recently. Assumptions are bad, I suppose.
This is why I hate it when people are judgmental. :/ It's just wrong. And "threads"? There was only that one other that I got seriously involved in...


my mind is blown.

[Juan Jose]

I'm glad people suddenly become politicians and activists on days like this, but I wish they cared about bigger problems. Don't ask me what bigger problems are, please. We all know there are bigger problems in this world than a trivial ruling on same-sex marriage that's just going to get appealed, and then appealed again, and again. Look at the bigger fucking picture.

I agree with what you're saying, it seems to me the same sex debate has lost much of its meaning with all this see-sawing between bans and repeals and whatnot, and in a way that debate only affects gay people and groups who have a problem with them, but no one ever worries about issues that affect us all because they're more complicated than for or against

[perceptrons]

This is why I hate it when people are judgmental. :/ It's just wrong. And "threads"? There was only that one other that I got seriously involved in...


my mind is blown.
Settle down, skipper.

[loveisdead]

Buddhism is awesome.

[eriatarka24]

Settle down, skipper.
I'm fine. It's just people should learn not to do that - don't judge or assume you know what someone means/is thinking. :shrug:

[cuzimlefthanded]

Buddhism is awesome.
:-)

[oldwirehands]

I know what you mean, sort of. I'll post what I was gonna post on my facebook. I didn't post it there because I didn't feel like arguing with people I know.

"I KNOW this will come off as homophobic to the ignorant, but anyone that knows me, KNOWS I'm a huge advocate for human equality. This immense celebration of the gay marriage victory in California is pretty irrelevant compared to the oppression that our government holds against 3rd world countries. I'm NOT saying that a gay marriage ban is right!!! I'm just saying it shows that our priorities have little to no interest to the outside world. There are much more important problems that need to be confronted, than the right for certain people to get married. I'm not saying that gay rights are not important either, but it certainly could be a matter that is resolved AFTER other issues are taken cared of. I don't see the overturning of Prop 8 as a huge victory, but just another distraction to the other prejudices around the world."

I'm not about to argue with anyone here either (I'm not going to reply to any quotes, so don't bother). Of course gay people are going to celebrate their victory over this oppressive ban, but why can't those same people put their efforts into fighting poverty and starvation? I'm sure there are some that do, but generally speaking, what I'm saying is right.

I don't meant to rain on anyone's parade, but reality needs to be brought into perspective for some. I can only hope that my words have done that.

[perceptrons]

If marriage was outlawed until gay marriage was allowed, would those thinking this is "no biggie," think it's OK to spend time to get marriage back? Or would it still be a waste of time?

[LostAllways]

I agree with what you're saying, it seems to me the same sex debate has lost much of its meaning with all this see-sawing between bans and repeals and whatnot, and in a way that debate only affects gay people and groups who have a problem with them, but no one ever worries about issues that affect us all because they're more complicated than for or against

I know what you mean, sort of. I'll post what I was gonna post on my facebook. I didn't post it there because I didn't feel like arguing with people I know.

"I KNOW this will come off as homophobic to the ignorant, but anyone that knows me, KNOWS I'm a huge advocate for human equality. This immense celebration of the gay marriage victory in California is pretty irrelevant compared to the oppression that our government holds against 3rd world countries. I'm NOT saying that a gay marriage ban is right!!! I'm just saying it shows that our priorities have little to no interest to the outside world. There are much more important problems that need to be confronted, than the right for certain people to get married. I'm not saying that gay rights are not important either, but it certainly could be a matter that is resolved AFTER other issues are taken cared of. I don't see the overturning of Prop 8 as a huge victory, but just another distraction to the other prejudices around the world."

I'm not about to argue with anyone here either (I'm not going to reply to any quotes, so don't bother). Of course gay people are going to celebrate their victory over this oppressive ban, but why can't those same people put their efforts into fighting poverty and starvation? I'm sure there are some that do, but generally speaking, what I'm saying is right.

I don't meant to rain on anyone's parade, but reality needs to be brought into perspective for some. I can only hope that my words have done that.

Thank you for not going with the flow and insulting me like everyone else. I'm glad I'm not the only one in the world with my opinions.

[LostAllways]

When I was in Israel I noticed that a lot of those Israeli army guys are just damn sexy...which makes them more badass.


I bet the fact that they kill innocent Palestinians daily without any consequence makes them even more badass and sexy, right?

[offtheropes]

Stopped reading after Economicists.

[zion the lion]

I bet the fact that they kill innocent Palestinians daily without any consequence makes them even more badass and sexy, right?

When was the last time you were in Israel.

[LostAllways]

When was the last time you were in Israel.

Two months ago. And then 9 months ago. And then a year and a half ago. And then two years ago. And then three years ago. And then three and a half years ago. I could go on. I have a lot of family there and my immediate family (father) iis very active in helping out victims of genocide and apartheid.

You?

[zion the lion]

Two months ago. And then 9 months ago. And then a year and a half ago. And then two years ago. And then three years ago. And then three and a half years ago. I could go on. I have a lot of family there and my immediate family (father) iis very active in helping out victims of genocide and apartheid.

You?

And in all of your time spent there you havent realized that people in the army are doing their jobs? Are you ever angry at Palestinians who kill people.

[LostAllways]

And in all of your time spent there you havent realized that people in the army are doing their jobs? Are you ever angry at Palestinians who kill people.

Let's see. I'm Palestinian. I get harassed when I walk through every single one of the checkpoints -- it takes 3 hours to travel roughly a mile in some parts of Gaza and the West Bank. One soldier actually tried to force my mom to take off her scarf, until he saw that she was an American and a Canadian citizen, in which he then stepped back and realized how fucked he'd be if he tried that. Definitely doing his job, right? If you want, I could come up with a hundred examples of Israeli soldiers NOT doing their jobs. If you've been to Israel as a Muslim, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about, and you definitely wouldn't be arguing on Israel's side.

Please. Don't compare the pathetic attempts of Palestinians to retaliate with suicide bombs to the Israeli army's mass murdering. The Palestinians didn't start this fight. They lived in Palestine first. The only claim Israeli's have to the land is what's written in their Torah -- a religious book. Who unlawfully took over whose country first? Look up the Zionist movement. It is written clearly in history. Read a legitimate history book.

Am I angry at the Palestinians? Sometimes. Sometimes, I feel like their actions are just stupid. But lock a couple million people in a strip a few miles long, limit their resources with a blockade, cut their power daily, etc., and tell me what you expect to happen.

[cuzimlefthanded]

Thank you for not going with the flow and insulting me like everyone else. I'm glad I'm not the only one in the world with my opinions.
You make it seem like the people celebrating the whole Prop 8 issue have absolutely no concern for any other issues...which is silly. We're just happy that something good has happened lately.

[LostAllways]

And in all of your time spent there you havent realized that people in the army are doing their jobs? Are you ever angry at Palestinians who kill people.

Oh, and for the record, I'm of Palestinian heritage, born in Canada and raised in California for about half of my life. I'm a US and Canadian citizen. Me and my family get the 'easy' or 'good' treatment from the soldiers.

[LostAllways]

You make it seem like the people celebrating the whole Prop 8 issue have absolutely no concern for any other issues...which is silly. We're just happy that something good has happened lately.

I'm concerned about the people who actually have no concern about other issues. There are people I know that actually don't care about anything else. Those people, I have a problem with.

[Juan Jose]

Thank you for not going with the flow and insulting me like everyone else. I'm glad I'm not the only one in the world with my opinions.

People are assholes don't let them get to you. This is one of the few intelligent threads I've seen in a while.

[samsara]

People are assholes don't let them get to you. This is one of the few intelligent threads I've seen in a while.
...

[Debut_Fin]

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa74/harrowlawl/obamam-lol-y-u-mad-tho.jpg

[caveBEAR]

Thank you for not going with the flow and insulting me like everyone else. I'm glad I'm not the only one in the world with my opinions.

People are assholes don't let them get to you. This is one of the few intelligent threads I've seen in a while.

:violin:

[LostAllways]

:violin:

Saying I'm glad I'm not the only person in the world who thinks the way I think isn't crying. It just seems like everyone on this forum has one opinion, and it gets a bit annoying sometimes.

[0s0]

Want to protect the sanctity of marriage?

BAN DIVORCE.

The end.

[crackedthesky]

i usually try to avoid playing the "i'm a lawyer" card, but this is so far off i can't resist. i'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say, but a federal district court decision on a constitutional issue like this is certainly going to be appealed to the circuit court, and most likely to the US supreme court unless it's something they don't want to decide on (eg. want to wait for congress to address the issue, or just want to stay the fuck away from it).

the district court opinion is invalidating the law based on the federal constitution, which means anything the state courts have said previously doesn't really mean anything.

Okay, that's basically what I said. The OP said that there would be a never-ending loop of appeals, and I said that at some point, the appeal process has to stop. I even said it would go tthrough the local court system and then to the Supreme Court, who would either rule on it or that it'd end up in Congress. Which you just confirmed, pretty much verbatim. Not sure where your issue is.

I may have heard incorrectly, but I'm pretty sure the judge ruled it a direct violation of the California state constitution, not the federal constitution.

[crackedthesky]

I know what you mean, sort of. I'll post what I was gonna post on my facebook. I didn't post it there because I didn't feel like arguing with people I know.

"I KNOW this will come off as homophobic to the ignorant, but anyone that knows me, KNOWS I'm a huge advocate for human equality. This immense celebration of the gay marriage victory in California is pretty irrelevant compared to the oppression that our government holds against 3rd world countries. I'm NOT saying that a gay marriage ban is right!!! I'm just saying it shows that our priorities have little to no interest to the outside world. There are much more important problems that need to be confronted, than the right for certain people to get married. I'm not saying that gay rights are not important either, but it certainly could be a matter that is resolved AFTER other issues are taken cared of. I don't see the overturning of Prop 8 as a huge victory, but just another distraction to the other prejudices around the world."

I'm not about to argue with anyone here either (I'm not going to reply to any quotes, so don't bother). Of course gay people are going to celebrate their victory over this oppressive ban, but why can't those same people put their efforts into fighting poverty and starvation? I'm sure there are some that do, but generally speaking, what I'm saying is right.

I don't meant to rain on anyone's parade, but reality needs to be brought into perspective for some. I can only hope that my words have done that.

I know you said you wouldn't reply (and I think that's really great of you to come in, ejaculate your opinion and then tell people not to bother replying because you're not willing to listen,) but apparently a lot of people don't seem to realize this one little fact:

THE PEOPLE INVOVLED IN THIS CASE ARE LAWYERS AND JUDGES. THEY HAVE NOTHING AT FUCKING ALL TO DO WITH OUR NATIONAL POLICY OR FOREIGN POLICY.

Dealing with this case does not, in any way, have any effect on what the Congress or what the White House or what the Military does. Seriously. It's not like any resources were diverted to get this passed.

[dave vegan]

Hold up everyone, there's no time to go celebrating trivial little civil rights victories, we need to look at the bigger fucking picture.

:appl:

[And Hours Pass]

Just finishing up school in the 416. Prob will return to the 314.

STL!

I bet the fact that they kill innocent Palestinians daily without any consequence makes them even more badass and sexy, right?

I'm glad that Palestinians respond maturely with suicide bombs (and in public places where women and children are!). Those Palestinians sure stay on the moral high ground here. It's a good thing Palestinians aren't killing innocent Israelis daily without any consequence. Oh wait...

[jtyexists9]

I think I see where he is coming from though I don't agree with it. We have a lot more shit that is a big deal but equality is very, very important. The ruling of Prop 8 being unconstitutional is great and I applaud every bit of it. Now that it is over move on and start thinking of how they can get our country out of debt, which quite frankly will be damn near impossible. All the while working on how we can help the poverty stricken folks in our country, etc. Just keep the wheels in motion.

[perceptrons]

Again, if no one could marry unless gay people could as well, I guarantee the few on here would change their tune on its "importance."

[crackedthesky]

I think I see where he is coming from though I don't agree with it. We have a lot more shit that is a big deal but equality is very, very important. The ruling of Prop 8 being unconstitutional is great and I applaud every bit of it. Now that it is over move on and start thinking of how they can get our country out of debt, which quite frankly will be damn near impossible. All the while working on how we can help the poverty stricken folks in our country, etc. Just keep the wheels in motion.

You're using "they" like it's some blob of unknown people with power.
Obama didn't bang the gavel in that courtroom. A judge did.
Said judge can do absolutely nothing about our nation's debt.

Why are people acting like it's Congress who was involved in this, or Obama?
This was a court case. The people involved were lwayers and judges. The people on Capitol Hill had absolutely no involvement with it whatsoever. No resources were diverted from poverty or the wars or the treasury.

Seriously, people. Stop and think for a moment. I get the sentiment, but it's incredibly misguided.

[jtyexists9]

You're using "they" like it's some blob of unknown people with power.
Obama didn't bang the gavel in that courtroom. A judge did.
Said judge can do absolutely nothing about our nation's debt.

Why are people acting like it's Congress who was involved in this, or Obama?
This was a court case. The people involved were lwayers and judges. The people on Capitol Hill had absolutely no involvement with it whatsoever. No resources were diverted from poverty or the wars or the treasury.

Seriously, people. Stop and think for a moment. I get the sentiment, but it's incredibly misguided.

I am talking about our country's issues as a whole. The broader picture. Yeah a judge ruled it like that, you are correct. Shit trickles down from Federal rulings, therefore it may reach Capitol Hill due to this one judge's gavel being rapped on the courtroom desk.

Every little step whether it be federal or from the Supreme Court because eventually congress WILL get involved. Misguided, no. Misinterpreted, yes.

[LostAllways]

STL!



I'm glad that Palestinians respond maturely with suicide bombs (and in public places where women and children are!). Those Palestinians sure stay on the moral high ground here. It's a good thing Palestinians aren't killing innocent Israelis daily without any consequence. Oh wait...

Oh, shut your mouth. Please. Respond maturely to their country being taken away from them? I'd like to see how 'maturely' and 'morally' you'd respond to your land being taken away from you.
Oh, and without consequence? Hardly. They're dying and they're living some of the shittiest lives in the world. Their land is being taken away from them. They're humiliated and stripped of their rights daily.

And OH, NOT THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN! AND IN PUBLIC PLACES? My god. How about you go look up some numbers on how many INNOCENT PALESTINIAN CHILDREN Israel has murdered, and then come back to me and tell me who is on the 'moral high ground.'

You're an ignorant piece of shit. Keep watching Sky news, Fox news, CNN, and all that other bullshit mainstream media for your information.

[bronxville]

Oh, shut your mouth. Please. Respond maturely to their country being taken away from them? I'd like to see how 'maturely' and 'morally' you'd respond to your land being taken away from you.
Oh, and without consequence? Hardly. They're dying and they're living some of the shittiest lives in the world. Their land is being taken away from them. They're humiliated and stripped of their rights daily.

And OH, NOT THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN! AND IN PUBLIC PLACES? My god. How about you go look up some numbers on how many INNOCENT PALESTINIAN CHILDREN Israel has murdered, and then come back to me and tell me who is on the 'moral high ground.'

You're an ignorant piece of shit. Keep watching Sky news, Fox news, CNN, and all that other bullshit mainstream media for your information.

Hamas really does recruit young.

[LostAllways]

Hamas really does recruit young.

The mainstream media really does brainwash the inerudite.

[bronxville]

The mainstream media really does brainwash the inerudite.

Nothing you say is going to disguise the fact that you support terrorist organizations.
Why don't you move back home? At least you could die with the rest of your family.

[cuzimlefthanded]

STL!



I'm glad that Palestinians respond maturely with suicide bombs (and in public places where women and children are!). Those Palestinians sure stay on the moral high ground here. It's a good thing Palestinians aren't killing innocent Israelis daily without any consequence. Oh wait...

Oh, shut your mouth. Please. Respond maturely to their country being taken away from them? I'd like to see how 'maturely' and 'morally' you'd respond to your land being taken away from you.
Oh, and without consequence? Hardly. They're dying and they're living some of the shittiest lives in the world. Their land is being taken away from them. They're humiliated and stripped of their rights daily.

And OH, NOT THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN! AND IN PUBLIC PLACES? My god. How about you go look up some numbers on how many INNOCENT PALESTINIAN CHILDREN Israel has murdered, and then come back to me and tell me who is on the 'moral high ground.'

You're an ignorant piece of shit. Keep watching Sky news, Fox news, CNN, and all that other bullshit mainstream media for your information.
The discrepancy of firepower between the Palestinians and Israelis is ridiculous...for every one Israeli wounded at least ten Palestinians are killed.

You hate on the Palestinians for resorting to suicide bombings, but fail to acknowledge the fact that Israeli army has used White Phosphorous Rockets (an internationally illegal weapon) against them for God's sake.

[cuzimlefthanded]

Nothing you say is going to disguise the fact that you support terrorist organizations.
Why don't you move back home? At least you could die with the rest of your family.
Wow...

[LostAllways]

Nothing you say is going to disguise the fact that you support terrorist organizations.
Why don't you move back home? At least you could die with the rest of your family.

Only in the eyes of Rupert Murdoch and Sky News and other mainstream media outlets is Hamas a terrorist organization. If you really think Hamas is a terrorist organization, I feel bad for you. Of course anyone who fights against Israel is going to be labelled a terrorist organization you idiot. Look up AIPAC and the Zionist lobby and how they corrupt and spread lies to the masses so that America can continue giving Israel 7 million dollars per day.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

There's a reason the UN puts up a new sanction against Israel every other fucking day, which Israel ignores. There's a reason that even after Obama and his shit administration as well as the UN condemned Israel for demolishing Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem, that they continued to do so, spitting in the face of the rest of the world. There's a fucking reason Israel attacked the Freedom Flotilla ILLEGALLY in International waters, killing several people, and there's a reason they get away from all of this without consequence.There's a reason Hamas is labelled a terrorist organization and you view Israel as saints, even after all this, you ignorant piece of shit. Fuck you.

[LostAllways]

Wow...

It's ridiculous how ignorant some people are.

[bronxville]

Only in the eyes of Rupert Murdoch and Sky News and other mainstream media outlets is Hamas a terrorist organization. If you really think Hamas is a terrorist organization, I feel bad for you. Of course anyone who fights against Israel is going to be labelled a terrorist organization you idiot. Look up AIPAC and the Zionist lobby and how they corrupt and spread lies to the masses so that America can continue giving Israel 7 million dollars per day.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

There's a reason the UN puts up a new sanction against Israel every other fucking day, which Israel ignores. There's a reason that even after Obama and his shit administration as well as the UN condemned Israel for demolishing Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem, that they continued to do so, spitting in the face of the rest of the world. There's a fucking reason Israel attacked the Freedom Flotilla ILLEGALLY in International waters, killing several people, and there's a reason they get away from all of this without consequence. Fuck you.

The U.S.Government labels Hamas as a terrorist organization, not Israel.
Remember The United States? Where you and your poor family took refuge?
You are an anti-semite with a family most likely tied to Hamas.
You hate Israel because you were bred to, not because you see the big picture.

[LostAllways]

The U.S.Government labels Hamas as a terrorist organization, not Israel.
Remember The United States? Where you and your poor family took refuge?
You are an anti-semite with a family most likely tied to Hamas.
You hate Israel because you were bred to, not because you see the big picture.

The US Government is definitely always right, huh? Is that what you think? You really believe everything the government tells you?

And I'm far from an anti-semite. Now you're going to the same pathetic argument all the other Zionists and pro-Israel bigots back up to, which is "You're against Israel and Zionism? You're an Anti-Semite." When, in reality, I'm fine with Jewish people, but I'm not okay with the Jewish people that think everything going on in Israel is okay, and that Zionism is something people should support.

My family definitely has no ties with Hamas, or else, considering how often we travel back and forth from Palestine, we'd be arrested and detained by now, and we'd definitely be on a no-fly list. You're a fucking moron.

Everything you just said just proves how fucking stupid you are.

[bronxville]

The US Government is definitely always right, huh? Is that what you think? You really believe everything the government tells you?

And I'm far from an anti-semite. Now you're going to the same pathetic argument all the other Zionists and pro-Israel bigots back up to, which is "You're against Israel and Zionism? You're an Anti-Semite." When, in reality, I'm fine with Jewish people, but I'm not okay with the Jewish people that think everything going on in Israel is okay, and that Zionism is something people should support.

My family definitely has no ties with Hamas, or else, considering how often we travel back and forth from Palestine, we'd be arrested and detained by now, and we'd definitely be on a no-fly list. You're a fucking moron.

Everything you just said just proves how fucking stupid you are.

I actually agree with you. I am not okay with the majority of Israel's decisions.

You and your family sold out. You aren't fighting the big fight. You came here to hide. You have no integrity. You are a coward.

[LostAllways]

I actually agree with you. I am not okay with the majority of Israel's decisions.

You and your family sold out. You aren't fighting the big fight. You came here to hide. You have no integrity. You are a coward.

Really? Sold out? My parents devote their lives to the betterment of Palestinians, and that's selling out? You're not fucking serious. If every single Palestinian sat in Palestine and fought back with bombs and rockets and with resistance, we'd get nowhere. We've been doing that for over 60 years, idiot. There are people that have to stay in Palestine and resist, and there are people, like my family, that have to provide food, medicine, and education to those in need.
Just because we fight with aid, and not resistance, doesn't mean we aren't fighting the 'big fight,' moron. My dad is in Palestine half of his fucking life working to help out our people, and you call that selling out? Shut the fuck up. Just shut your fucking mouth. What the fuck are you doing to help people? Sitting on your fucking computer, arguing in support of Israel and shit the government has fed you? You're the dumbest fucking person I've ever had to argue this shit with.

[bronxville]

Really? Sold out? My parents devote their lives to the betterment of Palestinians, and that's selling out? You're not fucking serious. If every single Palestinian sat in Palestine and fought back with bombs and rockets and with resistance, we'd get nowhere. We've been doing that for over 60 years, idiot. There are people that have to stay in Palestine and resist, and there are people, like my family, that have to provide food, medicine, and education to those in need. My dad is in Palestine half of his fucking life working to help out our people, and you call that selling out? Shut the fuck up. Just shut your fucking mouth. What the fuck are you doing to help people? Sitting on your fucking computer, arguing in support of Israel and shit the government has fed you? You're the dumbest fucking person I've ever had to argue this shit with.

You and your family are terrorists. So you flee like the cowards you are. You haven't done anything for your "homeland" and you never will.

[LostAllways]

You and your family are terrorists. So you flee like the cowards you are. You haven't done anything for your "homeland" and you never will.

That makes no sense. We're terrorists, but we haven't done anything for Palestine? LOL.

[bronxville]

That makes no sense. We're terrorists, but we haven't done anything for Palestine? LOL.

Alright you got me. I can't troll any longer. I have to get back to work. Enjoy the rest of your day..

[LostAllways]

Alright you got me. I can't troll any longer. I have to get back to work. Enjoy the rest of your day..

Thanks for being wrong and then dismissing yourself as a troll to curtail your failure. =]

[caveBEAR]

The U.S.Government labels Hamas as a terrorist organization, not Israel.
Remember The United States? Where you and your poor family took refuge?
You are an anti-semite with a family most likely tied to Hamas.
You hate Israel because you were bred to, not because you see the big picture.

I actually agree with you. I am not okay with the majority of Israel's decisions.

You and your family sold out. You aren't fighting the big fight. You came here to hide. You have no integrity. You are a coward.

You and your family are terrorists. So you flee like the cowards you are. You haven't done anything for your "homeland" and you never will.

Hoh-lee shit. You take the cake for biggest, most ignorant douche to grace this forum in at least a week.

Nice to know the world is so black and white, and that you know exactly which end of the spectrum everyone's supposed to sit.

[bronxville]

Thanks for being wrong and then dismissing yourself as a troll to curtail your failure. =]

Remember that when an Israeli missile comes through your roof.

[And Hours Pass]

Oh, shut your mouth. Please. Respond maturely to their country being taken away from them? I'd like to see how 'maturely' and 'morally' you'd respond to your land being taken away from you.
Oh, and without consequence? Hardly. They're dying and they're living some of the shittiest lives in the world. Their land is being taken away from them. They're humiliated and stripped of their rights daily.

And OH, NOT THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN! AND IN PUBLIC PLACES? My god. How about you go look up some numbers on how many INNOCENT PALESTINIAN CHILDREN Israel has murdered, and then come back to me and tell me who is on the 'moral high ground.'

You're an ignorant piece of shit. Keep watching Sky news, Fox news, CNN, and all that other bullshit mainstream media for your information.

First let me preface with the idea that I'm not at all associated with that other guy. Just wanted to make that abundantly clear.

Secondly, you sir are an ass. I never once resorted to name calling or insults with you. Was I snide? Maybe a bit. But all you've done in name calling and assuming is made yourself look like an ignorant and biased person in this thread.

With that said, you really want to complain about Palestinians living horrible lives and dying massive deaths? Go read up on the holocaust and get back to me. They killed an unimaginable number of jews and then gave them a small bit of land that they originated from and you're complaining that they're stealing land from palestinians and that the palestinians have it so bad? Go look at the history of the Jewish people and really do a comparison.

And for your information, I don't watch any Fox affiliated news or Sky news. But I think you'd be pretty hard-pressed to sit here and tell me you read unbiased news sources and are completely objective on this topic.

I'm also pretty shocked that you're arguing that Hamas isn't a terrorist organization. Their goal is to eradicate Israelis. It's frightening how singleminded their goal is.


(And if you're going to respond, this time try responding in a respectful way without the name calling and rudeness. If you're going to respond in the manner you did originally, please don't quote me because I don't want to read it.)

[LostAllways]

First let me preface with the idea that I'm not at all associated with that other guy. Just wanted to make that abundantly clear.

Secondly, you sir are an ass. I never once resorted to name calling or insults with you. Was I snide? Maybe a bit. But all you've done in name calling and assuming is made yourself look like an ignorant and biased person in this thread.

With that said, you really want to complain about Palestinians living horrible lives and dying massive deaths? Go read up on the holocaust and get back to me. They killed an unimaginable number of jews and then gave them a small bit of land that they originated from and you're complaining that they're stealing land from palestinians and that the palestinians have it so bad? Go look at the history of the Jewish people and really do a comparison.

And for your information, I don't watch any Fox affiliated news or Sky news. But I think you'd be pretty hard-pressed to sit here and tell me you read unbiased news sources and are completely objective on this topic.

I'm also pretty shocked that you're arguing that Hamas isn't a terrorist organization. Their goal is to eradicate Israelis. It's frightening how singleminded their goal is.


(And if you're going to respond, this time trying responding in a respectful way without the name calling and rudeness. If you're going to respond in the manner you did originally, please don't quote me because I don't want to read it.)

Please. Let's go with your logic for second -- so, Hitler killed however many million Jews. Sad. Pity. Alright. Now, let's punish the Palestinians for it and give them a piece of land in which their only claim to is their fucking Torah, a religious book. A religious fucking book is their claim to Palestine. Are you kidding me? I'm not an atheist, but fuck, that's just illogical.

I don't need the news to tell me anything, I've seen what happens over there first hand. I've experienced it. I know what goes on. It doesn't take a fucking rocket scientist to figure it out.

Hamas' goal is to eradicate the people that stole their land, and then bulldozed their homes, and then killed their people, and then land-locked them in a strip of land a few miles long, and then enforced a blockade on them, and then built a wall around them, and then cut off their power and water, as well as countless of other resources, from Jordan and other Arab countries and made them completely dependent on Israel, and I can go fucking on and on. But no, I'll let the UN Resolutions do that for me.



Resolution 106: "...‘condemns’ Israel for Gaza raid"
Resolution 111: "...‘condemns’ Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people"
Resolution 127: "...‘recommends’ Israel suspend its ‘no-man’s zone’ in Jerusalem"
Resolution 162: "...‘urges’ Israel to comply with UN decisions"
Resolution 171: "...determines flagrant violations’ by Israel in its attack on Syria"
Resolution 228: "...‘censures’ Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control"
Resolution 237: "...‘urges’ Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees"
Resolution 248: "...‘condemns’ Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan"
Resolution 250: "...‘calls’ on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem"
Resolution 251: "...‘deeply deplores’ Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250"
Resolution 252: "...‘declares invalid’ Israel’s acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital"
Resolution 256: "...‘condemns’ Israeli raids on Jordan as ‘flagrant violation"
Resolution 259: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation"
Resolution 262: "...‘condemns’ Israel for attack on Beirut airport"
Resolution 265: "...‘condemns’ Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan"
Resolution 267: "...‘censures’ Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem"
Resolution 270: "...‘condemns’ Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon"
Resolution 271: "...‘condemns’ Israel’s failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem"
Resolution 279: "...‘demands’ withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon"
Resolution 280: "....‘condemns’ Israeli’s attacks against Lebanon"
Resolution 285: "...‘demands’ immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon"
Resolution 298: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s changing of the status of Jerusalem"
Resolution 313: "...‘demands’ that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon"
Resolution 316: "...‘condemns’ Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon"
Resolution 317: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon"
Resolution 332: "...‘condemns’ Israel’s repeated attacks against Lebanon"
Resolution 337: "...‘condemns’ Israel for violating Lebanon’s sovereignty"
Resolution 347: "...‘condemns’ Israeli attacks on Lebanon"
Resolution 425: "...‘calls’ on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon"
Resolution 427: "...‘calls’ on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon’
Resolution 444: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces"
Resolution 446: "...‘determines’ that Israeli settlements are a ‘serious obstruction’ to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"
Resolution 450: "...‘calls’ on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon"
Resolution 452: "...‘calls’ on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories"
Resolution 465: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel’s settlements program"
Resolution 467: "...‘strongly deplores’ Israel’s military intervention in Lebanon"
Resolution 468: "...‘calls’ on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return"
Resolution 469: "...‘strongly deplores’ Israel’s failure to observe the council’s order not to deport Palestinians"
Resolution 471: "...‘expresses deep concern’ at Israel’s failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"
Resolution 476: "...‘reiterates’ that Israel’s claims to Jerusalem are ‘null and void’
Resolution 478: "...‘censures (Israel) in the strongest terms’ for its claim to Jerusalem in its ‘Basic Law’
Resolution 484: "...‘declares it imperative’ that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors"
Resolution 487: "...‘strongly condemns’ Israel for its attack on Iraq’s nuclear facility"
Resolution 497: "...‘decides’ that Israel’s annexation of Syria’s Golan Heights is ‘null and void’ and demands that Israel rescind its decision forthwith"
Resolution 498: "...‘calls’ on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon"
Resolution 501: "...‘calls’ on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops"
Resolution 509: "...‘demands’ that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon"
Resolution 515: "...‘demands’ that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in"
Resolution 517: "...‘censures’ Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon"
Resolution 518: "...‘demands’ that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon"
Resolution 520: "...‘condemns’ Israel’s attack into West Beirut"
Resolution 573: "...‘condemns’ Israel ‘vigorously’ for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters
Resolution 587: "...‘takes note’ of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw"
Resolution 592: "...‘strongly deplores’ the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops"
Resolution 605: "...‘strongly deplores’ Israel’s policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians
Resolution 607: "...‘calls’ on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention
Resolution 608: "...‘deeply regrets’ that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians"
Resolution 636: "...‘deeply regrets’ Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians
Resolution 641: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s continuing deportation of Palestinians
Resolution 672: "...‘condemns’ Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount
Resolution 673: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s refusal to cooperate with the United Nations
Resolution 681: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s resumption of the deportation of Palestinians
Resolution 694: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return
Resolution 726: "...‘strongly condemns’ Israel’s deportation of Palestinians
Resolution 799: "...‘strongly condemns’ Israel’s deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.

[bronxville]

Please. Let's go with your logic for second -- so, Hitler killed however many million Jews. Sad. Pity. Alright. Now, let's punish the Palestinians for it and give them a piece of land in which their only claim to is their fucking Torah, a religious book. A religious fucking book is their claim to Palestine. Are you kidding me? I'm not an atheist, but fuck, that's just illogical.

I don't need the news to tell me anything, I've seen what happens over there first hand. I've experienced it. I know what goes on. It doesn't take a fucking rocket scientist to figure it out.

Hamas' goal is to eradicate the people that stole their land, and then bulldozed their homes, and then killed their people, and then land-locked them in a strip of land a few miles long, and then enforced a blockade on them, and then built a wall around them, and then cut off their power and water, as well as countless of other resources, from Jordan and other Arab countries and made them completely dependent on Israel, and I can go fucking on and on. But no, I'll let the UN Resolutions do that for me.

UN Resolutions Against Israel, 1955-1992

There is no fucking way this dirka dirka retard is real. No way.

[LostAllways]

There is no fucking way this dirka dirka retard is real. No way.

Good rebuttal. You said you had work? I guess not.

[bronxville]

Good rebuttal. You said you had work? I guess not.

You are my favorite poster ever. I can't leave now. This shit is better than anything takenflight has ever done.

[paper halo]

Apparently this thread has reached new levels of stupid.

[crackedthesky]

I am talking about our country's issues as a whole. The broader picture. Yeah a judge ruled it like that, you are correct. Shit trickles down from Federal rulings, therefore it may reach Capitol Hill due to this one judge's gavel being rapped on the courtroom desk.

Every little step whether it be federal or from the Supreme Court because eventually congress WILL get involved. Misguided, no. Misinterpreted, yes.

It wasn't a federal judge. It was a state judge.
Cases don't trickle down to Congress... If anything they trickle up.
And that's still a misguided concern. Besides the fact that you're saying equal rights don't matter, the case at hand, the one were actually talk about, has not affcted Congress's ability to vote on the things you're mad they're not focused on (which, ironically, they aren't voting on anyway.) and when this case does get there, if it does, it's not like they're going to cancel a vote on whether to feed the poor in favor of gay marriage.
This whole argument is void of any logic or sense.

[BornUnderPunches]

what part of "Don't feed the troll" do you guys not understand?

[jtyexists9]

It wasn't a federal judge. It was a state judge.
Cases don't trickle down to Congress... If anything they trickle up.
And that's still a misguided concern. Besides the fact that you're saying equal rights don't matter, the case at hand, the one were actually talk about, has not affcted Congress's ability to vote on the things you're mad they're not focused on (which, ironically, they aren't voting on anyway.) and when this case does get there, if it does, it's not like they're going to cancel a vote on whether to feed the poor in favor of gay marriage.
This whole argument is void of any logic or sense.

Alright Bill O'Riley part Deux. I was merely trying to state that THIS COUNTRY as a whole has things to fix, quit beating around the bush of my statement and nitpicking shit that is irrelevant. Sorry I can't detail each sentence as politically coherent as you.

[crackedthesky]

Alright Bill O'Riley part Deux. I was merely trying to state that THIS COUNTRY as a whole has things to fix, quit beating around the bush of my statement and nitpicking shit that is irrelevant. Sorry I can't detail each sentence as politically coherent as you.

Lol, what the fuck?
I didn't mention anything at all about tour sentence style. Overreaction, much?
Yeah, the country has a lot to fix. That doesn't mean Prop 8 shouldn't have been overturned, and again, the people involved with it really have no control over these "other issues."
Not sure how that makes Bill o'reilly :shrug:

[Praetor]

It wasn't a federal judge. It was a state judge.
No, it was a federal judge.

[Praetor]

So much misunderstanding in this thread.

[And Hours Pass]

Please. Let's go with your logic for second -- so, Hitler killed however many million Jews. Sad. Pity. Alright. Now, let's punish the Palestinians for it and give them a piece of land in which their only claim to is their fucking Torah, a religious book. A religious fucking book is their claim to Palestine. Are you kidding me? I'm not an atheist, but fuck, that's just illogical.

I don't need the news to tell me anything, I've seen what happens over there first hand. I've experienced it. I know what goes on. It doesn't take a fucking rocket scientist to figure it out.

Hamas' goal is to eradicate the people that stole their land, and then bulldozed their homes, and then killed their people, and then land-locked them in a strip of land a few miles long, and then enforced a blockade on them, and then built a wall around them, and then cut off their power and water, as well as countless of other resources, from Jordan and other Arab countries and made them completely dependent on Israel, and I can go fucking on and on. But no, I'll let the UN Resolutions do that for me.

Sad? Pity? You pompous prick. Do you have any idea how many lives were lost? Far more than those of Palestine. And you want to see how your fair, logical Hamas respond?

The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him - the Hamas covenant

In 2003 Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi published an article in the Hamas weekly Al-Risala in which he called the Holocaust "the false Holocaust" and "the greatest of lies". In this article Rantisi expressed support to Holocaust deniers... and to the idea that the gas chambers were a myth - http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=subjects&Area=antisemitism&ID=SP55803

Hamas leader Younis al-Astal said that having the Holocaust included in the UNRWA curriculum for Gaza students amounted to "marketing a lie and spreading it." Al-Astal continued "I do not exaggerate when I say this issue is a war crime, because of how it serves the Zionist colonizers and deals with their hypocrisy and lies." - http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/08/31/world/AP-ML-Hamas-Holocaust.html


I could continue to quote for pages, but the point is, Hamas are a hateful group of people that deny one of the biggest marks on the history of the world in order to further their cause. If you associate with Hamas, I'm assuming you're a hateful person as well. And if that's the case, I don't know why you're even posting on this site in the first place. This isn't a place for hate mongerers to congregate.

[rawspinner]

Oh, shut your mouth. Please. Respond maturely to their country being taken away from them? I'd like to see how 'maturely' and 'morally' you'd respond to your land being taken away from you.
Oh, and without consequence? Hardly. They're dying and they're living some of the shittiest lives in the world. Their land is being taken away from them. They're humiliated and stripped of their rights daily.

And OH, NOT THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN! AND IN PUBLIC PLACES? My god. How about you go look up some numbers on how many INNOCENT PALESTINIAN CHILDREN Israel has murdered, and then come back to me and tell me who is on the 'moral high ground.'

You're an ignorant piece of shit. Keep watching Sky news, Fox news, CNN, and all that other bullshit mainstream media for your information.

Only in the eyes of Rupert Murdoch and Sky News and other mainstream media outlets is Hamas a terrorist organization. If you really think Hamas is a terrorist organization, I feel bad for you. Of course anyone who fights against Israel is going to be labelled a terrorist organization you idiot. Look up AIPAC and the Zionist lobby and how they corrupt and spread lies to the masses so that America can continue giving Israel 7 million dollars per day.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

There's a reason the UN puts up a new sanction against Israel every other fucking day, which Israel ignores. There's a reason that even after Obama and his shit administration as well as the UN condemned Israel for demolishing Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem, that they continued to do so, spitting in the face of the rest of the world. There's a fucking reason Israel attacked the Freedom Flotilla ILLEGALLY in International waters, killing several people, and there's a reason they get away from all of this without consequence.There's a reason Hamas is labelled a terrorist organization and you view Israel as saints, even after all this, you ignorant piece of shit. Fuck you.

Dude I can understand that you have a huge connection with the Palestinians there, because you are one of them, and you have shared their horrible experiences. You have more of a claim to them then I even have to my "people". I am ethinically Tamil, but was born here in Western Civilization. It's somewhat a similar conflict, except without the huge media coverage and the religious implications of the issues. But after witnessing thousands of Tamil protests in downtown Toronto right outside my home (the US embassy is right outside my place), I've come to learn that the justification of violence is something that is horribly wrong. The Tamil people for decades supported the LTTE. They felt so passionate about their pain and suffering, that they resorted to supporting any organization that would stick up for them. Unfortunately, they supported an organization that killed without mercy and put child soldiers in the battlefield. They supported this regime because it was the only one that would stand up for them. However, now that the war is over, and the LTTE is wiped out, the Tamil community is in an even deeper crap than before. They are forecd to live in horrible conditions at concentration camps away from their home while they are being screened, to make sure that no rebellion can start up again. This was the main reason for the protests in downtown Toronto last summer. They were protesting for their rights being violated, and for the right to decide whether or not the Tamil community wants to secede from Sri Lanka.

My side is this: after supporting a terribly violent regime, do we deserve that right? If we wanted to address a political matter we should have gone about the process politically and diplomatically; we should have resorted to rational thought and discourse. We should have realized that supporting a war machine that would indiscriminately continue bloodshed was NOT in the best interests of our people.

This is still, a worst case scenario. Cooperation and understanding of each other is what will lead to a greater more lasting peace. MLK Jr. did not say that his dream was that African's would be given equal rights and then live separate from white American's, it was that "little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls and walk together as sisters and brothers." I think if we can channel our passion and empathy for the people we are so concerned about into a goal that will stop violence, bloodshed, and suffering, and not continue it, then we can work little by little and establishing a more peaceful future.

[jtyexists9]

Lol, what the fuck?
I didn't mention anything at all about tour sentence style. Overreaction, much?
Yeah, the country has a lot to fix. That doesn't mean Prop 8 shouldn't have been overturned, and again, the people involved with it really have no control over these "other issues."
Not sure how that makes Bill o'reilly :shrug:

When did I once say Prop 8 shouldn't have been overturned? I am glad it did. Also the Bill O'Riley comment is meant because you are putting words in my mouth like I just stated. Then go on a tangent about something that was ridiculous. Also it was a federal judge as someone else pointed it out.

[boxingwithstars]

Celebrate, but don't make it seem like this is the biggest, or only problem in the world. People here in California fight so hard for things like equal rights for gays. I wish they did the same for other issues, that, in my opinion, are more important. Gay people aren't going to die if they don't get their equal marriage rights, which I'm completely for.

You are failing to see what winning a battle in the fight for same-sex marriage represents in the grand scheme of things. Civil rights, HUMAN rights, and equality for all are the most important issues in our society. No, gay people will not die because they're not allowed to get married... but basic civil rights issues are the issues which every other issue revolves around, and if our basic rights are not being recognized by the state then nothing else matters. A victory for LGBT rights is a victory for human rights, and that is pretty damn important.

When we're talking about civil rights, it's not difficult to drum up passion in people, because these people realize that this is a victory for all of us and not just for the LGBT community in California.

[zion the lion]

Hoh-lee shit. You take the cake for biggest, most ignorant douche to grace this forum in at least a week.

Nice to know the world is so black and white, and that you know exactly which end of the spectrum everyone's supposed to sit.

Do you remember what I said a few months ago about you (and others) seeing the most obvious fucking trolls in this forums and attacking them, ignoring the fact that they are trolls and just acting like they're just plan idiots, just to feed your ego?

You're doing it again...he already admitted he's a troll.

[zion the lion]

Let's see. I'm Palestinian. I get harassed when I walk through every single one of the checkpoints -- it takes 3 hours to travel roughly a mile in some parts of Gaza and the West Bank. One soldier actually tried to force my mom to take off her scarf, until he saw that she was an American and a Canadian citizen, in which he then stepped back and realized how fucked he'd be if he tried that. Definitely doing his job, right? If you want, I could come up with a hundred examples of Israeli soldiers NOT doing their jobs. If you've been to Israel as a Muslim, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about, and you definitely wouldn't be arguing on Israel's side.

Please. Don't compare the pathetic attempts of Palestinians to retaliate with suicide bombs to the Israeli army's mass murdering. The Palestinians didn't start this fight. They lived in Palestine first. The only claim Israeli's have to the land is what's written in their Torah -- a religious book. Who unlawfully took over whose country first? Look up the Zionist movement. It is written clearly in history. Read a legitimate history book.

Am I angry at the Palestinians? Sometimes. Sometimes, I feel like their actions are just stupid. But lock a couple million people in a strip a few miles long, limit their resources with a blockade, cut their power daily, etc., and tell me what you expect to happen.

What the fuck are you trying to say here kiddo?

[caveBEAR]

Do you remember what I said a few months ago about you (and others) seeing the most obvious fucking trolls in this forums and attacking them, ignoring the fact that they are trolls and just acting like they're just plan idiots, just to feed your ego?

You're doing it again...he already admitted he's a troll.

Being a troll in no way negates the fact that those beliefs are held by real people. Remember when we said you try to turn (non-existent) molehills into mountains? You're doing it again.

[loveisdead]

There is no fucking way this dirka dirka retard is real. No way.

Bye.

[zion the lion]

Being a troll in no way negates the fact that those beliefs are held by real people. Remember when we said you try to turn (non-existent) molehills into mountains? You're doing it again.

...actually, no I dont remember that. And I dont think I am, I'm just pointing out to you that you are doing what you tried to deny doing before.

And even if those beliefs are held by real people, those real people probably arent on this site. If a troll is trolling, why use him as your on personal ego booster?

[caveBEAR]

...actually, no I dont remember that. And I dont think I am, I'm just pointing out to you that you are doing what you tried to deny doing before.

I know, that's because I made it up. Oh well. I'm not trying to deny that I'm against what the trolls say, I just don't agree with you that this is some kind of problem. It's a website. These are posts on a forum. Don't like me being pissed by the troll? Move on. I'm not de-railing the discussion.

And even if those beliefs are held by real people, those real people probably arent on this site. If a troll is trolling, why use him as your on personal ego booster?

I can assure you that calling a troll a 'douche' is in no way an ego booster for me. Lots of things in my life boost my ego, and this is right above an old lady telling me she likes my hair.

As well, the smart money is on most of these trolls holding beliefs close to the shit they spew. It's always safer to go 'lol im trollzin' when someone calls you out than to own up about your views. I believe the 'derka derka' comment is more in my corner than yours. Guy is a mother fucking douche, troll or not.

[Healthy Scratch]

what the hell is going on here?

[zion the lion]

I know, that's because I made it up. Oh well. I'm not trying to deny that I'm against what the trolls say, I just don't agree with you that this is some kind of problem. It's a website. These are posts on a forum. Don't like me being pissed by the troll? Move on. I'm not de-railing the discussion.



I can assure you that calling a troll a 'douche' is in no way an ego booster for me. Lots of things in my life boost my ego, and this is right above an old lady telling me she likes my hair.

As well, the smart money is on most of these trolls holding beliefs close to the shit they spew. It's always safer to go 'lol im trollzin' when someone calls you out than to own up about your views. I believe the 'derka derka' comment is more in my corner than yours. Guy is a mother fucking douche, troll or not.

dont do that anymore...my anticonvulsant medicine results in memory loss, and that kind of shit only freaks me out for apparently no reason.

[LostAllways]

What the fuck are you trying to say here kiddo?

Uh, well, ...

And in all of your time spent there you havent realized that people in the army are doing their jobs? Are you ever angry at Palestinians who kill people.

what were you trying to say there? Were you seriously suggesting that the Israeli army is actually just doing it's job? You've got to be fucking kidding me.

[phillipjacob]

there's no harm in celebrating something you've fought hard to win.
it's stupid to be upset or trite about it because to you it doesn't affect the bigger picture
{but maybe to a lot of people it is the bigger picture of their lives}

i've always believed in "we may not be able to change the world but we can try to make a dent in it"

well that ruling was a "big dent" for a lot of people.

everyone has precedents in what's important to them.
kudos for pressing on to what's important to you

but don't belittle the importance of what's important to others.

[LostAllways]

there's no harm in celebrating something you've fought hard to win.
it's stupid to be upset or trite about it because to you it doesn't affect the bigger picture
{but maybe to a lot of people it is the bigger picture of their lives}

i've always believed in "we may not be able to change the world but we can try to make a dent in it"

well that ruling was a "big dent" for a lot of people.

everyone has precedents in what's important to them.
kudos for pressing on to what's important to you

but don't belittle the importance of what's important to others.

Yeah, I definitely understand that now, after 10+ pages of this thread. haha

[fightinirish217]

Gotta learn to ignore these idiots who come on here and just look to rile people up, regardless of their ignorant or stupid (or both) views.

[crackedthesky]

No, it was a federal judge.

Indeed. I was confused on the meaning of the term; when I said "federal judge," I was thinking that title started higher up on the ladder, but I guess it doesn't.

When did I once say Prop 8 shouldn't have been overturned? I am glad it did. Also the Bill O'Riley comment is meant because you are putting words in my mouth like I just stated. Then go on a tangent about something that was ridiculous. Also it was a federal judge as someone else pointed it out.

Look who's talking. When did I say you said it shouldn't?
My point still stands; that judge doesn't have anything to go with the "bigger issues."

[jtyexists9]

Indeed. I was confused on the meaning of the term; when I said "federal judge," I was thinking that title started higher up on the ladder, but I guess it doesn't.



Look who's talking. When did I say you said it shouldn't?
My point still stands; that judge doesn't have anything to go with the "bigger issues."

Nope but once it i appealed it will go to the Supreme Court. And that my friend is a difference in one realm. Now that is up to Obama and his boys.

[crackedthesky]

Nope but once it i appealed it will go to the Supreme Court. And that my friend is a difference in one realm. Now that is up to Obama and his boys.

Really? Obama put himself on the Supreme Court? That socialist bastard!

[zion the lion]

Uh, well, ...



what were you trying to say there? Were you seriously suggesting that the Israeli army is actually just doing it's job? You've got to be fucking kidding me.

You shouldnt go around preaching about things, or say anything that would make me want to sympathize...then say something like condescending...especially when you have no ground to say some shit like that "read a real history book sometime"

[GeeBee]

Nope but once it i appealed it will go to the Supreme Court. And that my friend is a difference in one realm. Now that is up to Obama and his boys.

Wow. And here I thought the court had a pretty conservative 5-4 streak and was in a totally different branch of government from Obama. Then again...it could just be that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

[ZEZEtheX]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/memerial.net/pictures/original/587.jpg

[boxingwithstars]

Nope but once it i appealed it will go to the Supreme Court. And that my friend is a difference in one realm. Now that is up to Obama and his boys.

Oh yeah, Chief Justice Obama (who doesn't even believe gay marriage should be legal (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/05/prop-8-ruling-exposes-dem_n_671900.html)) will certainly have his way then.

[LostAllways]

You shouldnt go around preaching about things, or say anything that would make me want to sympathize...then say something like condescending...especially when you have no ground to say some shit like that "read a real history book sometime"

Consider my point of view. I've seen these soldiers do things you wouldn't imagine the devil doing to people I know personally, family members. And you're telling me to maybe consider that, you know, they're just doing their jobs or something, ensuing that you know more about me on this issue from your vast experience, which you've revealed nothing of so far. If you actually thought even for one second that the Israeli army only does it's job and nothing more, than you're far more ignorant than I could ever imagine and I'm done arguing with you. I'd rather you be ignorant the rest of your life than understand the plea of my people, as you just come off as that useless.

[caveBEAR]

:popcorn:

[samsara]

:popc:

[LostAllways]

:popcorn:

:popc:

LMFAO.

[cuzimlefthanded]

Shit. Is. Fucking. Going. DOWN

[zion the lion]

Consider my point of view. I've seen these soldiers do things you wouldn't imagine the devil doing to people I know personally, family members. And you're telling me to maybe consider that, you know, they're doing their jobs or something, ensuing that you know more about me on this issue from your experience or something. If you actually thought even for one second that the Israeli army only does it's job and nothing more, than you're far stupider than I could ever imagine and I'm done arguing with you. I'd rather you be ignorant the rest of your life than understand the plea of my people, as you just come off as that useless.

Consider your point of view? Maybe I have, plenty of times, for a long goddamn time. You have no idea who the fuck I am but you came to your conclusion on which side I may be on based on the fact that I said that a few guys in uniform are "damn sexy" right...get the fuck over it, I think Ted Bundy was sexy too.

[zion the lion]

Shit. Is. Fucking. Going. DOWN

I'm eating mashed potatoes, nothing is going down Bubs.

[<*)))><]

I enjoy reading this thread while watching superbad, two laughs at the same time. (I'm at the blowjob part)

[LostAllways]

Consider your point of view? Maybe I have, plenty of times, for a long goddamn time. You have no idea who the fuck I am but you came to your conclusion on which side I may be on based on the fact that I said that a few guys in uniform are "damn sexy" right...get the fuck over it, I think Ted Bundy was sexy too.

Oh. Yeah, you definitely didn't say anything more than 'a few guys in uniform are damn sexy'... oh wait


And in all of your time spent there you havent realized that people in the army are doing their jobs? Are you ever angry at Palestinians who kill people.


Hey. You wrote that, dumb ass. It's right there. It's even bolded just for you, as I've noticed how undiscerning you are and I decided to help a bit.

[zion the lion]

Oh. Yeah, you definitely didn't say anything more than 'a few guys in uniform are damn sexy'... oh wait





Hey. You wrote that, dumb ass. It's right there. It's even bolded just for you, as I've noticed how undiscerning you are and I decided to help a bit.

Did I ever deny saying that? Nope, but the first thing you jumped on me for was saying that the last time I was there the guys were sexy. If I remember correctly you decided to get on my ass saying some crap about how I must think them killing innocent people every day makes them more sexy.

Do you think the majority of those people want to be going around just killing people? No...they probably want to be doing other things with their time, but they do what they're told (the key word there being the majority). Just like with any other army, do you think they want to be mass murderers when something happens that kills innocent people? Probably not.

you know what I find funny though? You said you were 'done arguing with me' (because thats clearly thats what this has been...not you just freaking out...but arguing) but you're still here.

[sjb2k1]

I enjoy reading this thread while watching superbad, two laughs at the same time. (I'm at the blowjob part)
my friend from college married that blow jay chick. hahaha

[<*)))><]

my friend from college married that blow jay chick. hahaha
What a lucky dude she is pretty hot.

[Praetor]

Nope but once it i appealed it will go to the Supreme Court. And that my friend is a difference in one realm. Now that is up to Obama and his boys.
No, once it's appealed it will go to the 9th Circuit.

[jtyexists9]

Really? Obama put himself on the Supreme Court? That socialist bastard!

I apologize for that. I meant in regards the the overspending issue he is having and the defecit. We were talking about things earlier that were not about the whole same-sex issue. 1000 apologies.

[jtyexists9]

Wow. And here I thought the court had a pretty conservative 5-4 streak and was in a totally different branch of government from Obama. Then again...it could just be that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Sorry you missed the earlier shit. In regards to the other issues like the debt, etc. Now that is Obama and his boys realm.

[jtyexists9]

Oh yeah, Chief Justice Obama (who doesn't even believe gay marriage should be legal (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/05/prop-8-ruling-exposes-dem_n_671900.html)) will certainly have his way then.

Once again I apologize for lumping two different things together. Next time I'll proofread my absoultepunk.net posts. Or people shouldn't jump in halfway through and conversation without knowing what was said.

[Mitch]

This thread is Basil Marceaux.com retarded.

[caveBEAR]

I think I see where he is coming from though I don't agree with it. We have a lot more shit that is a big deal but equality is very, very important. The ruling of Prop 8 being unconstitutional is great and I applaud every bit of it. Now that it is over move on and start thinking of how they can get our country out of debt, which quite frankly will be damn near impossible. All the while working on how we can help the poverty stricken folks in our country, etc. Just keep the wheels in motion.

This was your original post in here. You act like the overturning of Prop 8 leads to getting out of debt, leads to helping the poverty stricken, etc., as if there's only a single branch of governing power in the entire country. Lump that in with your later remark about 'Obama and his boys' or whatever you said, and you really can't see how people ended up taking your comments out of context. The overturning of Prop 8 has nothing to do with getting out of debt, helping the poverty stricken, etc., and the people who put the wheels in motion on overturning Prop 8 have nothing to do with the issues the OP whined about. It's just one high mark, that's all.

Oh, and Obama and 'his boys' also have little to do with solving all the problems people have been bitching about, that'd be more the Senate and Congress' problem to solve, Obama just signing whatever they decide into law...but, yeah, sure, blanket statements about Politics ('his boys) > actually knowing how the political process works.

[caveBEAR]

This thread is Basil Marceaux.com retarded.

I like this thread like Basil Marceaux.com likes planes and choo-choos.

[jtyexists9]

This was your original post in here. You act like the overturning of Prop 8 leads to getting out of debt, leads to helping the poverty stricken, etc., as if there's only a single branch of governing power in the entire country. Lump that in with your later remark about 'Obama and his boys' or whatever you said, and you really can't see how people ended up taking your comments out of context. The overturning of Prop 8 has nothing to do with getting out of debt, helping the poverty stricken, etc., and the people who put the wheels in motion on overturning Prop 8 have nothing to do with the issues the OP whined about. It's just one high mark, that's all.

Oh, and Obama and 'his boys' also have little to do with solving all the problems people have been bitching about, that'd be more the Senate and Congress' problem to solve, Obama just signing whatever they decide into law...but, yeah, sure, blanket statements about Politics ('his boys) > actually knowing how the political process works.

I do? Sorry. I didn't mean to. I meant our country as a whole meaning Equality from voters, debt meaning the Government not spending an ungodly amount of money. Obama not botching the shit out of health care. Amongst other. Next time I will detail each thing so it doesn't get misconstrude in any way.

[boxingwithstars]

Once again I apologize for lumping two different things together. Next time I'll proofread my absoultepunk.net posts. Or people shouldn't jump in halfway through and conversation without knowing what was said.

I actually went back and read your posts and I still don't understand what you're talking about. Obama is not actively pursuing an overturn of DOMA or asking Congress to make same-sex marriage an issue. This issue has nothing to do with Congress. It was a state issue and now it will eventually make its way to the Supreme Court, not because the Obama administration or Congress is sending it there, but because of the pro-Prop 8 groups that continue to appeal the ruling.

[jtyexists9]

I actually went back and read your posts and I still don't understand what you're talking about. Obama is not actively pursuing an overturn of DOMA or asking Congress to make same-sex marriage an issue. This issue has nothing to do with Congress. It was a state issue and now it will eventually make its way to the Supreme Court, not because the Obama administration or Congress is sending it there, but because of the pro-Prop 8 groups that continue to appeal the ruling.

I lumped too many issues together, my bad.

[crackedthesky]

Once again I apologize for lumping two different things together. Next time I'll proofread my absoultepunk.net posts. Or people shouldn't jump in halfway through and conversation without knowing what was said.

I was here the whole time, you basically leapt from one conversation to an entirely different one...
Regardless, I think it's still a bit irrational to complain that resources are being diverted. Even if they were, there is a LOT going on in the world right now. One President, one Congress, and one Supreme Court can only do so much. There will always be people who want one issue to be handled over another. This particular one is still being accused of having done nothing at all, even after all that's been accomplished. So if you can't please anyone, let alone everyone, you might as well get what you can done.

[GeeBee]

Sorry you missed the earlier shit. In regards to the other issues like the debt, etc. Now that is Obama and his boys realm.

Congress spends money. The President doesn't spend a dime without say-so. Sorry.

[Simulcast]

Government should have nothing (http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_15687872) to do with marriage. There is the solution to the OP's problem.

[LostAllways]

Government should have nothing (http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_15687872) to do with marriage. There is the solution to the OP's problem.

Best answer so far. Not kidding.

[Praetor]

Government should have nothing (http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_15687872) to do with marriage. There is the solution to the OP's problem.

Abso-fucking-lutely. It's the only way to make everybody happy. To me, the perfect resolution is to split the ideas of marriage (delegated to a private role and thus can freely discriminate) and civil unions (to be a civil right, earns participants state and federal rights, and can not discriminate based on sexual orientation).

[Simulcast]

Abso-fucking-lutely. It's the only way to make everybody happy. To me, the perfect resolution is to split the ideas of marriage (delegated to a private role and thus can freely discriminate) and civil unions (to be a civil right, earns participants state and federal rights, and can not discriminate based on sexual orientation).


I like this idea.

[Anesthetic]

I hate politics so much, yet I can't seem to get pulled out of reading threads like this.

Our government is corrupt, and it fails. That's not even me pulling for anarchy or anything of the sort. Our government leaders that we entrust are and always will be complete tools.

[caveBEAR]

I hate politics so much, yet I can't seem to get pulled out of reading threads like this.

Our government is corrupt, and it fails. That's not even me pulling for anarchy or anything of the sort. Our government leaders that we entrust are and always will be complete tools.

Well, seeing they're elected by us, that would make us tools as well.

[GeeBee]

I hate politics so much, yet I can't seem to get pulled out of reading threads like this.

Our government is corrupt, and it fails. That's not even me pulling for anarchy or anything of the sort. Our government leaders that we entrust are and always will be complete tools.

People deserve exactly the kind of government they have.

[caveBEAR]

People deserve exactly the kind of government they have.

Argh! The people we put in charge are useless! Therefore, government must be useless!!!

1.) Elect shitty politicians.
2.) ???
3.) Profit!

[GeeBee]

Argh! The people we put in charge are useless! Therefore, government must be useless!!!

1.) Elect shitty politicians.
2.) ???
3.) Profit!

Too lazy to actually research your position on an issue or candidate? Just go with your gut and which guy you'd rather have a beer with!

[caveBEAR]

Too lazy to actually research your position on an issue or candidate? Just go with your gut and which guy you'd rather have a beer with!

Then, when everything goes to shit because we've elected incompetent 'buddies' to office, just say your fed up with all politicians!

[crackedthesky]

Abso-fucking-lutely. It's the only way to make everybody happy. To me, the perfect resolution is to split the ideas of marriage (delegated to a private role and thus can freely discriminate) and civil unions (to be a civil right, earns participants state and federal rights, and can not discriminate based on sexual orientation).

That's a bad idea. You're changing the definition of words in order to keep the discrimination around. That wouldn't be ending it, that would dressing it up. This is basically the equivalent of what happened with segregation. If I use your terms, there were private stores (whites only) and civil ones (blacks only even though whites could go if they wanted.) And everyone's happy, right?
Gay people don't want to get "civilly unionized." They want to get married.
Religious people are scared, for whatever reason, that letting other people "sin" will result in them going to Hell, so they feel a need to jam their ideals and lifestyles down everyone else's throat. The correct response to that is not to appease them. That goes against pretty much everything the country was founded upon.

Unless I'm taking this incorrectly, and you're referring to actually making the "civil unions" the default method and letting religious people and those who so choose get "married."
That will, however, not make anyone happy. Zealots don't want gay people to just not get married, they want them to stop being homosexual.


Our government is corrupt, and it fails. That's not even me pulling for anarchy or anything of the sort. Our government leaders that we entrust are and always will be complete tools.

Then maybe you should run and make it different, instead of whining about it on an internet forum.

[xshady121]

That's a bad idea. You're changing the definition of words in order to keep the discrimination around. That wouldn't be ending it, that would dressing it up. This is basically the equivalent of what happened with segregation. If I use your terms, there were private stores (whites only) and civil ones (blacks only even though whites could go if they wanted.) And everyone's happy, right?
Gay people don't want to get "civilly unionized." They want to get married.
Religious people are scared, for whatever reason, that letting other people "sin" will result in them going to Hell, so they feel a need to jam their ideals and lifestyles down everyone else's throat. The correct response to that is not to appease them. That goes against pretty much everything the country was founded upon.

Unless I'm taking this incorrectly, and you're referring to actually making the "civil unions" the default method and letting religious people and those who so choose get "married."
That will, however, not make anyone happy. Zealots don't want gay people to just not get married, they want them to stop being homosexual.



Then maybe you should run and make it different, instead of whining about it on an internet forum.


Not what he is saying. He's saying that civil unions would be default, and marriage would be purely ceremonial (read: religious).

[GeeBee]

Not what he is saying. He's saying that civil unions would be default, and marriage would be purely ceremonial (read: religious).

What cracked is saying, however, is that you can't unwind the clock. Civil Union is already code for "not as good as marriage, but we'll let you have it so we don't feel like such bigots".

[crackedthesky]

Not what he is saying. He's saying that civil unions would be default, and marriage would be purely ceremonial (read: religious).

Okay, ignore the longer paragraph then, lol. But still:

What cracked is saying, however, is that you can't unwind the clock. Civil Union is already code for "not as good as marriage, but we'll let you have it so we don't feel like such bigots".

Basically. And again, it still won't make the religious happy. They want homosexuality to not exist at all.

[xshady121]

What cracked is saying, however, is that you can't unwind the clock. Civil Union is already code for "not as good as marriage, but we'll let you have it so we don't feel like such bigots".

Okay, ignore the longer paragraph then, lol. But still:



Basically. And again, it still won't make the religious happy. They want homosexuality to not exist at all.

I agree with both of you.

[perceptrons]

Abso-fucking-lutely. It's the only way to make everybody happy. To me, the perfect resolution is to split the ideas of marriage (delegated to a private role and thus can freely discriminate) and civil unions (to be a civil right, earns participants state and federal rights, and can not discriminate based on sexual orientation).
I don't see any reason to do this at all. Just because religious groups don't want the word marriage "tainted," they should get it all to themselves? If a child is throwing a tantrum, you appease them?

[LostAllways]

I don't see any reason to do this at all. Just because religious groups don't want the word marriage "tainted," they should get it all to themselves? If a child is throwing a tantrum, you appease them?

Well, in this case, going by your comparison, the child is marginally bigger/more powerful than you, so I suppose you do have to appease them.

[caveBEAR]

Well, in this case, going by your comparison, the child is marginally bigger/more powerful than you, so I suppose you do have to appease them.

Fuck that whiny little kid. I don't care how big or powerful the child is, throwing a tantrum will get him nothing! They lose! Good day, sir!

[crackedthesky]

Well, in this case, going by your comparison, the child is marginally bigger/more powerful than you, so I suppose you do have to appease them.

This is probably one of the absolute worst attitudes I've ever heard.

[caveBEAR]

This is probably one of the absolute worst attitudes I've ever heard.

Matches up pretty perfectly with his belief that if America isn't viewed as #1 anymore, we should just say 'fuck civil rights!'

:rolleyes:

[jwicklun]

I am utterly confused of what this OP is angry about.

[zion the lion]

I am utterly confused of what this OP is angry about.

He's angry at your laziness.

[jwicklun]

He's angry at your laziness.

Aw shucks, now he's gotten me feeling guilty about being happy for the civil rights of the gay community.

[zion the lion]

Aw shucks, now he's gotten me feeling guilty about being happy for the civil rights of the gay community.

Oh and he's angry about the fact that you're too easily pleased...there is such a thing as being too happy for gay rights.

[jwicklun]

Oh and he's angry about the fact that you're too easily pleased...there is such a thing as being too happy for gay rights.
:gay: guilttttttyyyyyyyyy.

[loveisdead]

:gay: guilttttttyyyyyyyyy.

Hahaha. Nice.

[boxingwithstars]

Government should have nothing (http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_15687872) to do with marriage. There is the solution to the OP's problem.

Abso-fucking-lutely. It's the only way to make everybody happy. To me, the perfect resolution is to split the ideas of marriage (delegated to a private role and thus can freely discriminate) and civil unions (to be a civil right, earns participants state and federal rights, and can not discriminate based on sexual orientation).

I really hate this idea and I don't think it makes any fucking sense. Both civil unions and domestic partnerships were created as a separate-but-equal compromise for same-sex couples who wished to marry and share the same rights as opposite-sex couples, but couldn't. Marriage out dates civil unions, it already provides all the legal rights that are necessary, and it is NOT viewed as a religious ceremony by the state. You can get married in a church or courthouse, the state doesn't give a fuck. They grant you the same rights no matter what (as long as you're straight, or course).

The government regulates marriage because it's the form of legal partnership that we recognize. For some reason, religious bigots think they own the word "marriage" and that they have the right to define it. They don't. Our government does not automatically assume marriage is a religious ceremony, they see it as more of a secular legal ceremony.

[Simulcast]

I really hate this idea and I don't think it makes any fucking sense. Both civil unions and domestic partnerships were created as a separate-but-equal compromise for same-sex couples who wished to marry and share the same rights as opposite-sex couples, but couldn't. Marriage out dates civil unions, it already provides all the legal rights that are necessary, and it is NOT viewed as a religious ceremony by the state. You can get married in a church or courthouse, the state doesn't give a fuck. They grant you the same rights no matter what (as long as you're straight, or course).

The government regulates marriage because it's the form of legal partnership that we recognize. For some reason, religious bigots think they own the word "marriage" and that they have the right to define it. They don't. Our government does not automatically assume marriage is a religious ceremony, they see it as more of a secular legal ceremony.

Wrong. They regulate marriage so they can make money off of licensing fees, and so they can get a piece of the property that results from that marriage.

You are missing the point.

The article I linked is saying that the government should have no say in what constitutes marriage. It is a private affair:

Imagine if government had no interest in the definition of marriage. Individuals could commit to each other, head to the local priest or rabbi or shaman — or no one at all — and enter into contractual agreements, call their blissful union whatever they felt it should be called and go about the business of their lives.

That would remove the "bigots'" hold on the definition of marriage. It would also cover the legal requirements if both parties saw fit to enter into a contractual agreement.

[serenab1221]

As a homosexual, I'm tired of defending the fact that I want the rights every other person in this f****** country has.

Next topic please.

[open mind]

talk about disappointment.

this week the politics forum has been filled to the brim with stupid (we ought ta done fo get about rights and thought picture real hard about the e-con-o-me) , trivial (i can see tribal chicks titties on the teevee, so i ought to be able to see all other titties too dagnabit!!), bullshit that's come from people starving for an argument.......i'm guessing a large chunk of these people are probably douchebags with some serious social failings......but i could (and probably am) just a shitfaced asshole.

[boxingwithstars]

Wrong. They regulate marriage so they can make money off of licensing fees, and so they can get a piece of the property that results from that marriage.

You are missing the point.

The article I linked is saying that the government should have no say in what constitutes marriage. It is a private affair:



That would remove the "bigots'" hold on the definition of marriage. It would also cover the legal requirements if both parties saw fit to enter into a contractual agreement.

So, how would that work exactly? Every time a couple wanted to get married they'd have to hire a lawyer to draw them up contracts? Paying for a marriage licensee from the state is a lot cheaper.

I'm not missing the point. Of course the government tries to make money off marriage, they try to make money off everything. And of course they should have no part in defining marriage as a union that can only be entered into by certain people and not others. But removing marriage from the government completely is still a poorly constructed idea that people toss around as an easy solution to providing equal rights to gay and lesbian couples while giving the other side what they want too. It shouldn't be the solution, the solution should be marriage equality for all.

The system we've constructed for providing joint legal rights to couples is marriage, and it works for the most part (aside from when it ends in divorce, but that isn't the states fault). So why do we need to redesign the entire system? All we have to do is open it up to EVERYONE. Simple as that.

[Machu505]

Making civil unions the norm seems a lot more complicated and unnecessary than what ten countries have already done: simply define marriage as between two consenting adults.

[boxingwithstars]

Making civil unions the norm seems a lot more complicated and unnecessary than what ten countries have already done: simply define marriage as between two consenting adults.

Exactly.

Considering this thread started off with people whining about how we have "more important" things to worry about than legalizing same-sex marriage, I don't know how it ended up at the idea that the solution is completely changing how marriage licenses are issued and removing the government's involvement entirely. Because that wouldn't take up more unnecessary time.

[Anesthetic]

Well see I could care less about the marriage issues, they will sort themselves out eventually. I'm just talking about how fucking worthless the majority of politicians are, and sorry if you are too blind to see it folks.

[loveisdead]

Well see I could care less about the marriage issues, they will sort themselves out eventually. I'm just talking about how fucking worthless the majority of politicians are, and sorry if you are too blind to see it folks.

What's your ideal society look like?

[Anesthetic]

I don't have an ideal society. I think our population is too vast and uncontrollable to create an ideal society.

My main problem is the priority of the issues that get taken of care of.

[loveisdead]

I don't have an ideal society. I think our population is too vast and uncontrollable to create an ideal society.

My main problem is the priority of the issues that get taken of care of.

What's priority number 1?

[perceptrons]

Well see I could care less about the marriage issues, they will sort themselves out eventually. I'm just talking about how fucking worthless the majority of politicians are, and sorry if you are too blind to see it folks.
Posts like this always make me laugh.

[Scrandon]

Supporters of equal rights = Too blind to recognize the political process is slow?

I think if anyone is able to recognize the political process is slow (or in your words: "worthless politicians") it would be those who are pushing for reform.

[paper halo]

Well see I could care less about the marriage issues, they will sort themselves out eventually. I'm just talking about how fucking worthless the majority of politicians are, and sorry if you are too blind to see it folks.

Aaaand dumbest post of the day award goes to....

[Scrandon]

Well see I could care less about the marriage issues, they will sort themselves out eventually. I'm just talking about how fucking worthless the majority of politicians are, and sorry if you are too blind to see it folks.

Secondly, of course you don't care about equal rights, it doesn't directly pay off for you. Because you are just a self-interested douche who only gets involved in politics when you need the government's help in bringing your paycheck back up to par.

Marriage issues will not work themselves out unless part of the oppressive majority (heterosexuals) realize that they need to take up the cause as well, because a minority group cannot bring change on their own.

[circasuicide]

letting gay people marry literally hurts no one. not letting gay people marry hurts a lot of people.

do the math america.

[boxingwithstars]

Well see I could care less about the marriage issues, they will sort themselves out eventually. I'm just talking about how fucking worthless the majority of politicians are, and sorry if you are too blind to see it folks.

Funny thing about civil rights issues... they usually don't tend to "sort themselves out" without a fight.

[yayitsjoe]

this is why i usually stay out of the politics forum.

hi everybody.

[Scrandon]

Aaaand dumbest post of the day award goes to....

Dumbest post of the day in the dumbest thread of the week that he created. This guy just can't be stopped!

[Praetor]

That's a bad idea. You're changing the definition of words in order to keep the discrimination around. That wouldn't be ending it, that would dressing it up. This is basically the equivalent of what happened with segregation. If I use your terms, there were private stores (whites only) and civil ones (blacks only even though whites could go if they wanted.) And everyone's happy, right?
Gay people don't want to get "civilly unionized." They want to get married.
Religious people are scared, for whatever reason, that letting other people "sin" will result in them going to Hell, so they feel a need to jam their ideals and lifestyles down everyone else's throat. The correct response to that is not to appease them. That goes against pretty much everything the country was founded upon.

Unless I'm taking this incorrectly, and you're referring to actually making the "civil unions" the default method and letting religious people and those who so choose get "married."
That will, however, not make anyone happy. Zealots don't want gay people to just not get married, they want them to stop being homosexual.
Like Anthony said, you got my argument wrong. With my solution, gays would be allowed to get married if their church will consent to marry them. But they would be allowed to enter into a civil union (which in my solution would hold all the state and federal rights that marriage currently does).

Let me clarify. Two adults, gay or straight, could become married, enter into a civil union, or both. If they wish to get married, it is a purely symbolic/personal/religious/etc. matter recognized by the church and not by the government. If they wish to obtain the rights given out to couples (currently only to the married) then they may enter into a civil union, recognized by the government but not the church. As per the 1st Amendment, churches would have a right to deny gays the right to marry (which with this solution would be a purely symbolic gesture) BUT as per the 14th Amendment, the government could NOT deny the right to citizens to enter into a civil union.
I really hate this idea and I don't think it makes any fucking sense. Both civil unions and domestic partnerships were created as a separate-but-equal compromise for same-sex couples who wished to marry and share the same rights as opposite-sex couples, but couldn't. Marriage out dates civil unions, it already provides all the legal rights that are necessary, and it is NOT viewed as a religious ceremony by the state. You can get married in a church or courthouse, the state doesn't give a fuck. They grant you the same rights no matter what (as long as you're straight, or course).


The government regulates marriage because it's the form of legal partnership that we recognize. For some reason, religious bigots think they own the word "marriage" and that they have the right to define it. They don't. Our government does not automatically assume marriage is a religious ceremony, they see it as more of a secular legal ceremony.
If our government really, truly currently viewed marriage as a secular legal ceremony then gays would be allowed to marry as two consenting adults. Your argument is moot.

[eriatarka24]

Posts like this always make me laugh.
like the OP.

[boxingwithstars]

If our government really, truly currently viewed marriage as a secular legal ceremony then gays would be allowed to marry as two consenting adults. Your argument is moot.

You're right, I should clarify that what I actually meant is marriage has to be recognized as secular or else it's simply unconstitutional. Because the government is involved in marriage, it should always be viewed as a secular institution. Obviously, our elected officials and the voters do not always seem to care about the separation of church and state. But that's why Prop 8 was overturned in court, and why I believe legislation like it restricting marriage rights will continue to be found unconstitutional.

But that wasn't really the point I was trying to make anyway. Marriage is an institution that has been around for a long time, and we have seen it transform from one thing to another. It is the greatest legally binding partnership recognized by our government, but it's also a very powerful social institution that definitely shapes the world we live in. I don't see the point in doing away with that or changing the name or asking people to have a civil union AND a marriage. This is making the issue even more complicated than it already is. Just make marriage open and equal for all.

[crackedthesky]

Like Anthony said, you got my argument wrong. With my solution, gays would be allowed to get married if their church will consent to marry them. But they would be allowed to enter into a civil union (which in my solution would hold all the state and federal rights that marriage currently does).

Let me clarify. Two adults, gay or straight, could become married, enter into a civil union, or both. If they wish to get married, it is a purely symbolic/personal/religious/etc. matter recognized by the church and not by the government. If they wish to obtain the rights given out to couples (currently only to the married) then they may enter into a civil union, recognized by the government but not the church. As per the 1st Amendment, churches would have a right to deny gays the right to marry (which with this solution would be a purely symbolic gesture) BUT as per the 14th Amendment, the government could NOT deny the right to citizens to enter into a civil union.

If our government really, truly currently viewed marriage as a secular legal ceremony then gays would be allowed to marry as two consenting adults. Your argument is moot.

I still think that's a far more complicated way of doing things :shrug:

[perceptrons]

I still think that's a far more complicated way of doing things :shrug:
Not just more complicated, but it offers no positives as far as I can tell.

(Note: Making religious people happy by removing the homosexual "taint" from their precious word is not a positive)

[caveBEAR]

Not just more complicated, but it offers no positives as far as I can tell.

(Note: Making religious people happy by removing the homosexual "taint" from their precious word is not a positive)

It's complicated, and I don't think it offers any more benefits than just legalizing gay marriage, but from a Constitutional 'separation of church & state' stance, having civil unions be the government (and tax) form of 'marriage' while having marriage be the 'ceremonial' term (i.e., your church can say no to 'gay marriage', but that Unitarian place down the road can say yes to 'gay marriage') would be the way to go; unfortunately, at this stage of the game, marriage, civil unions, etc., are all too tied between government, civil issues, religion, etc., for a clean solution that makes everyone happy.

In my opinion, since we can't make everyone happy, I say we give the big let down to the bigots and strike another notch in the belt of equality.

[peder458]

It's complicated, and I don't think it offers any more benefits than just legalizing gay marriage, but from a Constitutional 'separation of church & state' stance, having civil unions be the government (and tax) form of 'marriage' while having marriage be the 'ceremonial' term (i.e., your church can say no to 'gay marriage', but that Unitarian place down the road can say yes to 'gay marriage') would be the way to go; unfortunately, at this stage of the game, marriage, civil unions, etc., are all too tied between government, civil issues, religion, etc., for a clean solution that makes everyone happy.

In my opinion, since we can't make everyone happy, I say we give the big let down to the bigots and strike another notch in the belt of equality.

(nods to self in agreement.)

[GeeBee]

Not just more complicated, but it offers no positives as far as I can tell.

(Note: Making religious people happy by removing the homosexual "taint" from their precious word is not a positive)

Sums up the point quite nicely, and using a great double entendre in the process.

[sirentheescape]

agreed

[OurRequiem]

Troll account above, bumpin' an unnecessary thread. Congratulations :highfive:

[sealion]

It's complicated, and I don't think it offers any more benefits than just legalizing gay marriage, but from a Constitutional 'separation of church & state' stance, having civil unions be the government (and tax) form of 'marriage' while having marriage be the 'ceremonial' term (i.e., your church can say no to 'gay marriage', but that Unitarian place down the road can say yes to 'gay marriage') would be the way to go; unfortunately, at this stage of the game, marriage, civil unions, etc., are all too tied between government, civil issues, religion, etc., for a clean solution that makes everyone happy.

In my opinion, since we can't make everyone happy, I say we give the big let down to the bigots and strike another notch in the belt of equality.

::thumbs up::