The army will make you strong.

[lfdfforever]

Ol1f7s8GOZk

[Machu505]

I especially like the picture of the Supreme Court as gangsters.

[lfdfforever]

:-)

[sjb2k1]

"that's not my first impression"

".....oh."

[ace1112]

hoo rah!

[Orpheus42]

He makes it seem like every soldier is murdering everyone they see. That's just my take.

[MyNameIsRoss]

word, my friend went into the service, got big as hell. dude could lift a car now.


edit: oh, and i didn't watch that.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

Wondering if there's any Army servicemen/women or vets out there to give their perspective.

[jwicklun]

The guy makes it sound like every guy in the service is some brainwashed murdering idiot. Although I understand his take on being an independent thinker, but this sounds kind of insulting to many of my friends who served in Afghanistan and Iraq.

[Mibabalou]

so AP does not like the army?

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

so AP does not like the army?

I don't think it's so much "anti-Army", but the culture that exists within, whereby your manhood is dependent upon how you perform in the Army. While we've always "supported the troops," my one criticism of the Army (and military in general) are the questionable tactics by recruiters to get young people to enlist for two unpopular wars in the past decade.

[sjb2k1]

so AP does not like the army?
i'm cool with the army, and all the rest of the armed forces. except don't ask, don't tell. not so cool with that.

[The Indigo]

so AP does not like the army?
I'm not a fan. I'm not saying anything negative about any individual serviceman, but the concept is kind of fucked up to me.

[spiffa0]

I'm not a fan. I'm not saying anything negative about any individual serviceman, but the concept is kind of fucked up to me.

So let's get rid of the army and cross our fingers that no one comes and destroys us?

Edit: I didn't watch the video so I apologize in advance if your response has to do with that.

[The Indigo]

So let's get rid of the army and cross our fingers that no one comes and destroys us?

Edit: I didn't watch the video so I apologize in advance if your response has to do with that.
Not just the American army; all armies. The concept that poor people are sent to die for causes that mainly benefit the rich pisses me off.

[TheFaceOfZach]

I don't think it's so much "anti-Army", but the culture that exists within, whereby your manhood is dependent upon how you perform in the Army. While we've always "supported the troops," my one criticism of the Army (and military in general) are the questionable tactics by recruiters to get young people to enlist for two unpopular wars in the past decade.


I wouldn't include the military as whole since not every branch has infantry.

[Jake Gyllenhaal]

I wouldn't include the military as whole since not every branch has infantry.

True. I'll admit I'm not an expert on military practices.

[saysmydoctor]

Who was it that said by the US' own standards of what a terrorist group is, that its own military is basically a terrorist organization?

I agree with that.

[1MoreChance]

the us army does piss me off but only because we live in a world that needs them

[TheProsAndCons]

So let's get rid of the army and cross our fingers that no one comes and destroys us?

Edit: I didn't watch the video so I apologize in advance if your response has to do with that.

Ireland doesn't have an army, and it's been almost 100 years since the last time we were invaded, and about 60 years since we became an complete republic.

Oh noez, buh we r america, we r d bst country in d worldz, every1 wants r stuff. we mst protect r stuffz!!!1

X

[zion the lion]

I was going to join the army before I learned about my mental health issues. Now I just want to marry an army man...or a guy in the marines, or the air force (it doesnt matter) but it'd be hard thinking about how if I had kids and he got deployed, he'd be gone for over a year and the babies wouldnt know who the fuck he is when he gets back. It'd be a major drawback for me.

edit: the general/sergeant/whoever it was who was yelling at the guy around like 4:50 was the sergeant being the psychiatrist in that geico commercial...I like how he's all over the place like that.

[Paulie4star]

I'm in the service, and I just want to say a few things. This might not be the best community to share my thoughts but I'm going to anyway.

Everyone's reason for joining the military is different. Some do it because they want to travel the world, others because they want to become stronger, and some because there is simply no job for them as a civilian.

Me personally, I joined because I ran out of options. I was raised incredibly poor. 10 siblings and a hard working father that only brought in 26k a year. He did his best but none of us were able to go to college, I'm the 6th child, and I was the first to try. I went for 1 semester and was doing really well, (at least I think a 3.8 is good, correct me if I'm wrong.) I simply ran out of money, I couldn't get enough hours at the hospital I was working at, and there was nothing available. I didn't just say "Fuck it, I'm joining the Navy." I sat down with my wife, and we talked about it. It was not ideal for either of us but like I said, there was simply nothing else I could do. If I wanted to get a degree, this was my only option.

<<<<After I signed my contract, 3 days later I found out she was pregnant. (There's the rascal in my avatar) Anyway, I have to say it's one of the best decisions I've ever made. I'm very proud that I can support a family and not have to worry about money because I've had to worry about that all of my life. Deployments are hard but when I really sit down and think about it, I come to a few conclusions.

1) They'll never go hungry or be without a home.
2) I will have $80,000 to go to school when my contract is up.
3) I can pick up where I left off.
4) I am a better person because of it. I am more confident, I am happier, and so are my family.
5) I am not just keeping my wife and child healthy and safe, but my younger siblings back home, I send money to them every month and make sure they're sticking to school and getting A's and all that big brother stuff.

So please, before you judge a service member, ask them, "Hey, what's your story, why did you enlist?" Most of them do it for family, and if that means getting "brainwashed" to keep them safe, I'd do it all over again.

Sorry for the novel. But I really want to know what everyone thinks about people like me or other service members. Is it wrong? Is it right? Just quote me or leave a comment. I'm really interested.

[Roboman]

I sat down with my wife, and we talked about it. It was not ideal for either of us but like I said, there was simply nothing else I could do. If I wanted to get a degree, this was my only option.

::looks at poster's age:: Oh...hm.

[Paulie4star]

::looks at poster's age:: Oh...hm.
I don't get it?

[Roboman]

I don't get it?

Sorry, I just think that marrying young is never a good idea, especially if one of the two people is joining the armed forces.

[Paulie4star]

Sorry, I just think that marrying young is never a good idea, especially if one of the two people is joining the armed forces.
I've been married and in the armed forces for 2 years. I guess that's not the point. We're happy, and maybe we're an exception. You're not the first nor last person to tell me. I don't blame you for thinking that way. Everyone lives different lifestyles.

[zachff]

Ireland doesn't have an army, and it's been almost 100 years since the last time we were invaded, and about 60 years since we became an complete republic.

Oh noez, buh we r america, we r d bst country in d worldz, every1 wants r stuff. we mst protect r stuffz!!!1

X
I tend to think most of what you say is more or less in line with my opinion, but if the bolded portion was in any sense real then I've been mistaken, and you're a moron.

[zachff]

I'm in the service, and I just want to say a few things. This might not be the best community to share my thoughts but I'm going to anyway.

Everyone's reason for joining the military is different. Some do it because they want to travel the world, others because they want to become stronger, and some because there is simply no job for them as a civilian.

Me personally, I joined because I ran out of options. I was raised incredibly poor. 10 siblings and a hard working father that only brought in 26k a year. He did his best but none of us were able to go to college, I'm the 6th child, and I was the first to try. I went for 1 semester and was doing really well, (at least I think a 3.8 is good, correct me if I'm wrong.) I simply ran out of money, I couldn't get enough hours at the hospital I was working at, and there was nothing available. I didn't just say "Fuck it, I'm joining the Navy." I sat down with my wife, and we talked about it. It was not ideal for either of us but like I said, there was simply nothing else I could do. If I wanted to get a degree, this was my only option.

<<<<After I signed my contract, 3 days later I found out she was pregnant. (There's the rascal in my avatar) Anyway, I have to say it's one of the best decisions I've ever made. I'm very proud that I can support a family and not have to worry about money because I've had to worry about that all of my life. Deployments are hard but when I really sit down and think about it, I come to a few conclusions.

1) They'll never go hungry or be without a home.
2) I will have $80,000 to go to school when my contract is up.
3) I can pick up where I left off.
4) I am a better person because of it. I am more confident, I am happier, and so are my family.
5) I am not just keeping my wife and child healthy and safe, but my younger siblings back home, I send money to them every month and make sure they're sticking to school and getting A's and all that big brother stuff.

So please, before you judge a service member, ask them, "Hey, what's your story, why did you enlist?" Most of them do it for family, and if that means getting "brainwashed" to keep them safe, I'd do it all over again.

Sorry for the novel. But I really want to know what everyone thinks about people like me or other service members. Is it wrong? Is it right? Just quote me or leave a comment. I'm really interested.

Thank you for sharing. My best friend (college grad with honors, sick job at an engineering firm making $70K plus/year) joined the Air Force reserves a few months ago, graduates Basic today. Everyone's got their own reason

[Paulie4star]

Thank you for sharing. My best friend (college grad with honors, sick job at an engineering firm making $70K plus/year) joined the Air Force reserves a few months ago, graduates Basic today. Everyone's got their own reason
It's an awesome feeling. Give him a call, I'm sure he wants to hear from you. Did you write him at all while he was in bootcamp?

[TheProsAndCons]

I tend to think most of what you say is more or less in line with my opinion, but if the bolded portion was in any sense real then I've been mistaken, and you're a moron.

X is for sarcasm, haha.

[zachff]

It's an awesome feeling. Give him a call, I'm sure he wants to hear from you. Did you write him at all while he was in bootcamp?
Yeah I wrote him a few times, and we talked like every Sunday when he had phone time. I'm actually flying down to San Antonio tomorrow with another friend of ours and meeting up with him and his parents, since he gets off base Fri afternoon and all day Sat.

[zachff]

X is for sarcasm, haha.
Just checking. Now, there's this:
http://listicles.thelmagazine.com/wp-content/upload/anteater_duel.jpg

[TheProsAndCons]

Just checking. Now, there's this:
http://listicles.thelmagazine.com/wp-content/upload/anteater_duel.jpg
haha,
http://memegenerator.net/Oak/ImageMacro/1470020/Oak-Be-there-or-be-square.jpg

[Paulie4star]

Yeah I wrote him a few times, and we talked like every Sunday when he had phone time. I'm actually flying down to San Antonio tomorrow with another friend of ours and meeting up with him and his parents, since he gets off base Fri afternoon and all day Sat.
:-0 Every Sunday? That's crazy.
I got one 30 second phone call like 30 minutes after arrival. Then didn't hear her voice until 9 weeks later. But she wrote me every day, which was awesome. I also wrote my younger brothers and sisters and told them to write all of the guys in the division who didn't get letters, haha. So guys who had no family writing them recieved coloring book pages with crayon markings all over the page from the youngsters, hahaha. Some of them even started to cry.

Enjoy your trip down though, I'm sure he'll be happy to see you.

[zachff]

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/08/500x_foiling-our-enemies.jpg

[<*)))><]

A lot of my friends joined the Army and from what I hear they love it. My best friend from when I was younger is now working on helicopters and another works on a submarine.

[mattyrocks]

I'm in the service, and I just want to say a few things. This might not be the best community to share my thoughts but I'm going to anyway.

Everyone's reason for joining the military is different. Some do it because they want to travel the world, others because they want to become stronger, and some because there is simply no job for them as a civilian.

Me personally, I joined because I ran out of options. I was raised incredibly poor. 10 siblings and a hard working father that only brought in 26k a year. He did his best but none of us were able to go to college, I'm the 6th child, and I was the first to try. I went for 1 semester and was doing really well, (at least I think a 3.8 is good, correct me if I'm wrong.) I simply ran out of money, I couldn't get enough hours at the hospital I was working at, and there was nothing available. I didn't just say "Fuck it, I'm joining the Navy." I sat down with my wife, and we talked about it. It was not ideal for either of us but like I said, there was simply nothing else I could do. If I wanted to get a degree, this was my only option.

<<<<After I signed my contract, 3 days later I found out she was pregnant. (There's the rascal in my avatar) Anyway, I have to say it's one of the best decisions I've ever made. I'm very proud that I can support a family and not have to worry about money because I've had to worry about that all of my life. Deployments are hard but when I really sit down and think about it, I come to a few conclusions.

1) They'll never go hungry or be without a home.
2) I will have $80,000 to go to school when my contract is up.
3) I can pick up where I left off.
4) I am a better person because of it. I am more confident, I am happier, and so are my family.
5) I am not just keeping my wife and child healthy and safe, but my younger siblings back home, I send money to them every month and make sure they're sticking to school and getting A's and all that big brother stuff.

So please, before you judge a service member, ask them, "Hey, what's your story, why did you enlist?" Most of them do it for family, and if that means getting "brainwashed" to keep them safe, I'd do it all over again.

Sorry for the novel. But I really want to know what everyone thinks about people like me or other service members. Is it wrong? Is it right? Just quote me or leave a comment. I'm really interested.


whats your rate?

[Paulie4star]

whats your rate?
I'm an IT, but it's soooooo boring.

Cross-rating to HM. Everyone thinks I'm a nutjob.

Edit: I'm planning on going into the medical field when I get out, so I want to get my toes wet before I commit to it.

[sjb2k1]

I was going to join the army before I learned about my mental health issues. Now I just want to marry an army man...or a guy in the marines, or the air force (it doesnt matter) but it'd be hard thinking about how if I had kids and he got deployed, he'd be gone for over a year and the babies wouldnt know who the fuck he is when he gets back. It'd be a major drawback for me.

edit: the general/sergeant/whoever it was who was yelling at the guy around like 4:50 was the sergeant being the psychiatrist in that geico commercial...I like how he's all over the place like that.
do yourself a favor and watch that movie, Full Metal Jacket.

[mattyrocks]

I'm an IT, but it's soooooo boring.

Cross-rating to HM. Everyone thinks I'm a nutjob.

Edit: I'm planning on going into the medical field when I get out, so I want to get my toes wet before I commit to it.


ha how funny. im an HM.

isnt it hard to cross rate? how long you been in for?

[Paulie4star]

ha how funny. im an HM.

isnt it hard to cross rate? how long you been in for?
From what I hear, as long as the rate is undermanned they'll accept crossrating, and seeing as how IT's are overmanned at the moment, I don't see why it will be a problem. (Although getting from point A to point B in the Navy is never easy.) Coming up on 2 years, and that's usually the timeframe you have to wait to crossrate, so I guess we'll see. What's corpsman like? How long have you been in?

[Simulcast]

I'm in the service, and I just want to say a few things. This might not be the best community to share my thoughts but I'm going to anyway.

Everyone's reason for joining the military is different. Some do it because they want to travel the world, others because they want to become stronger, and some because there is simply no job for them as a civilian.

Me personally, I joined because I ran out of options. I was raised incredibly poor. 10 siblings and a hard working father that only brought in 26k a year. He did his best but none of us were able to go to college, I'm the 6th child, and I was the first to try. I went for 1 semester and was doing really well, (at least I think a 3.8 is good, correct me if I'm wrong.) I simply ran out of money, I couldn't get enough hours at the hospital I was working at, and there was nothing available. I didn't just say "Fuck it, I'm joining the Navy." I sat down with my wife, and we talked about it. It was not ideal for either of us but like I said, there was simply nothing else I could do. If I wanted to get a degree, this was my only option.

<<<<After I signed my contract, 3 days later I found out she was pregnant. (There's the rascal in my avatar) Anyway, I have to say it's one of the best decisions I've ever made. I'm very proud that I can support a family and not have to worry about money because I've had to worry about that all of my life. Deployments are hard but when I really sit down and think about it, I come to a few conclusions.

1) They'll never go hungry or be without a home.
2) I will have $80,000 to go to school when my contract is up.
3) I can pick up where I left off.
4) I am a better person because of it. I am more confident, I am happier, and so are my family.
5) I am not just keeping my wife and child healthy and safe, but my younger siblings back home, I send money to them every month and make sure they're sticking to school and getting A's and all that big brother stuff.

So please, before you judge a service member, ask them, "Hey, what's your story, why did you enlist?" Most of them do it for family, and if that means getting "brainwashed" to keep them safe, I'd do it all over again.

Sorry for the novel. But I really want to know what everyone thinks about people like me or other service members. Is it wrong? Is it right? Just quote me or leave a comment. I'm really interested.


Good for you man. It takes a lot of mettle to overcome what you did.

[Paulie4star]

Good for you man. It takes a lot of mettle to overcome what you did.
Thank you. After reading through my post, I sort of sound like a douche. Didn't intend it to be that way. Some people just assume that our military is full of a bunch of poor scum.

[RedWineSheets]

Thank you. After reading through my post, I sort of sound like a douche. Didn't intend it to be that way. Some people just assume that our military is full of a bunch of poor scum.

Paulie I respect you so much, I never really knew your whole story. Wish we were friends in real life. Maybe if I come to a show at the norva one day we can get a beer and talk about spurs and how bale looks like a freakish manape.

Cheers!

[DrStrong]

People talk shit about the military all the time, I really dont get it. People often claim enlisting into a branch is an "easy way out" of the normal every day work force, or people will say the military brain washes you.

The only people in the military that the second statement could be related to is infantry men. There are so many jobs in any given branch that can actually be useful in the outside world.

[Paulie4star]

Paulie I respect you so much, I never really knew your whole story. Wish we were friends in real life. Maybe if I come to a show at the norva one day we can get a beer and talk about spurs and how bale looks like a freakish manape.

Cheers!
:appl: on the Bale comment. I wish I had something to say about Chelsea that hasn't already been said. Gotta catch me before I head to Pohang, Korea in February...

Still laughing at the Bale comment, twas brilliant.

[mattyrocks]

From what I hear, as long as the rate is undermanned they'll accept crossrating, and seeing as how IT's are overmanned at the moment, I don't see why it will be a problem. (Although getting from point A to point B in the Navy is never easy.) Coming up on 2 years, and that's usually the timeframe you have to wait to crossrate, so I guess we'll see. What's corpsman like? How long have you been in?


good point.

but, it really depends on what kind of corpsman you want to become. or more so, what kind of orders you recieve. if youre a hoorah type corpsman who wants to go recon and be deployed with marines then try and get into that pipeline. if not, try to get access to a C school so you can have something to fall back on when you get out.

and ive only been in for a year.

where are you stationed?

[Paulie4star]

good point.

but, it really depends on what kind of corpsman you want to become. or more so, what kind of orders you recieve. if youre a hoorah type corpsman who wants to go recon and be deployed with marines then try and get into that pipeline. if not, try to get access to a C school so you can have something to fall back on when you get out.

and ive only been in for a year.

where are you stationed?
Norfolk, VA. I'm headed to Pohang, KR in 6 months.

I'll most likely try to get a C school, just more for me to learn, and that's always good. I miss going to school.

[mattyrocks]

i had no idea there were orders to fuckin korea. crazy. how long will you be out there for?

and word of advice, if you do end up going to corpsman A school make sure you end up at the top of the class.

they get first choice at C schools and orders.

[Paulie4star]

6 months, and I shouldn't have a problem being at least near the top, I finished #1 in my class of 66. Too bad it didn't do shit for me, haha.

[germypill]

That's nice and all but somebody's gotta do it.

[zion the lion]

do yourself a favor and watch that movie, Full Metal Jacket.

Is that what he's from?

I just thought it was funny that they used that clip and he's been in that geico commercial, they could have used that to prove their point too kind of.

[sjb2k1]

Is that what he's from?

I just thought it was funny that they used that clip and he's been in that geico commercial, they could have used that to prove their point too kind of.
well he's been in a bunch of different stuff. and he was really in the marine corps. but Full Metal Jacket is a pretty sweet/insane movie.

[crackedthesky]

As much as I disagree with war in general, I feel it's rather foolish not to feel indebted to those in the armed forces. I agree that recruiting has become basically joke, but I also realize that, as ridiculous as these two wars have been, the guys choosing to fight in it are the reason I don't have to. Without those enlisted, we would need a draft.
Basically, I may not agree with what they're fighting for, or why they're doing it. I may even go so far as to question the rationality of doing it at all. But when you get down to it, they're doing it so that I don't have to, so that I can sit here and disagree with it and not have to participate in it.

Because of this, my biggest qualm with the military is that they teach people how to be machines, and they don't give a shit about teaching them to be human again when they get home.

The truth is, not everyone has what it takes to be a soldier. You can't force or scare someone into having that, but they do it anyway. And they don't teach them how to come home and escape that, they don't care that they are creating people who are no longer fit for society. They'd rather spend money on creating more people who aren't fit for society than spend it on teaching the ones they've ruined how to stand down and be normal again.

[mattyrocks]

6 months, and I shouldn't have a problem being at least near the top, I finished #1 in my class of 66. Too bad it didn't do shit for me, haha.


my bad for not quoting your last message. hate when that happens.

are you gonna reenlist after youre done?

[Paulie4star]

my bad for not quoting your last message. hate when that happens.

are you gonna reenlist after youre done?
I'm not planning on it, but I still have 3 years left. Things may change.

[jtyexists9]

So will steroids, ask Clemens.

[hello299]

Service men/women are under appreciated, especially during a time of a controversial war. So to anyone currently serving or have served, thank you very much!

[The Indigo]

I'm in the service, and I just want to say a few things. This might not be the best community to share my thoughts but I'm going to anyway.

Everyone's reason for joining the military is different. Some do it because they want to travel the world, others because they want to become stronger, and some because there is simply no job for them as a civilian.

Me personally, I joined because I ran out of options. I was raised incredibly poor. 10 siblings and a hard working father that only brought in 26k a year. He did his best but none of us were able to go to college, I'm the 6th child, and I was the first to try. I went for 1 semester and was doing really well, (at least I think a 3.8 is good, correct me if I'm wrong.) I simply ran out of money, I couldn't get enough hours at the hospital I was working at, and there was nothing available. I didn't just say "Fuck it, I'm joining the Navy." I sat down with my wife, and we talked about it. It was not ideal for either of us but like I said, there was simply nothing else I could do. If I wanted to get a degree, this was my only option.

<<<<After I signed my contract, 3 days later I found out she was pregnant. (There's the rascal in my avatar) Anyway, I have to say it's one of the best decisions I've ever made. I'm very proud that I can support a family and not have to worry about money because I've had to worry about that all of my life. Deployments are hard but when I really sit down and think about it, I come to a few conclusions.

1) They'll never go hungry or be without a home.
2) I will have $80,000 to go to school when my contract is up.
3) I can pick up where I left off.
4) I am a better person because of it. I am more confident, I am happier, and so are my family.
5) I am not just keeping my wife and child healthy and safe, but my younger siblings back home, I send money to them every month and make sure they're sticking to school and getting A's and all that big brother stuff.

So please, before you judge a service member, ask them, "Hey, what's your story, why did you enlist?" Most of them do it for family, and if that means getting "brainwashed" to keep them safe, I'd do it all over again.

Sorry for the novel. But I really want to know what everyone thinks about people like me or other service members. Is it wrong? Is it right? Just quote me or leave a comment. I'm really interested.
Therein lies one of my main beefs with the military. You were in a very rough situations, one in which many people in Congress would argue against your right to welfare and other government assistance. Very few people can function successfully in society without a college education, and it's getting to the point that only the wealthy can afford college (and those willing to indebt themselves to the capitalist class can get a shit ton of loans). The United States in one of the few wealthy, industrialized nations in the world that still makes it citizens pay for higher education, making it nearly impossible to break the cycle of poverty. After all that, they set up a system where if you agree to go overseas, leaving your wife and young child, and fight in a war whose only beneficiers will be people much wealthier than you or I will ever be, they'll give you enough money to, you know, not starve to death.

Capitalism fucking sucks.

[adamcircles]

lolz @ people who feel indebted to people in the military. I always find that blind deference amusing. I don't feel that I owe someone in the armed forces any Super Duper Appreciation. And I say that as someone whose best friend is in the British Army (is leaving for good this Tuesday), whose uncle has been serving about twenty years, and who has a relative killed in Afghanistan. Apparently he was protecting my freedoms over there or some shit. Ah, well.

[open mind]

i'd like the military more if it concentrated on defense more then aggression.

[mattyrocks]

lolz @ people who feel indebted to people in the military. I always find that blind deference amusing. I don't feel that I owe someone in the armed forces any Super Duper Appreciation. And I say that as someone whose best friend is in the British Army (is leaving for good this Tuesday), whose uncle has been serving about twenty years, and who has a relative killed in Afghanistan. Apparently he was protecting my freedoms over there or some shit. Ah, well.


why dont you feel that way?

[open mind]

i can think of a couple reasons.

1.the majority of those who enlist do so mostly out of self interest (promises of a decent education, and housing among other things).

2.most of the armed conflict the u.s. has been involved in in the last 60 or so years hasn't been in defense of anything but business interests.

[adamcircles]

why dont you feel that way?

Well, as far as I'm aware, the last time the UK faced a serious external threat was the Second World War. Certainly in my lifetime, the British Army hasn't protected me from any would-be invading hordes poised to destroy the population, or overthrow the government. That, and I find UK foreign policy fairly disgusting most of the time, and the British Army is the major agent through which that policy is acted out.

[mattyrocks]

i can think of a couple reasons.

1.the majority of those who enlist do so mostly out of self interest (promises of a decent education, and housing among other things).

2.most of the armed conflict the u.s. has been involved in in the last 60 or so years hasn't been in defense of anything but business interests.


1. agreed.

2. hard to disagree.

do you not think a military is necessary?

[mattyrocks]

Well, as far as I'm aware, the last time the UK faced a serious external threat was the Second World War. Certainly in my lifetime, the British Army hasn't protected me from any would-be invading hordes poised to destroy the population, or overthrow the government. That, and I find UK foreign policy fairly disgusting most of the time, and the British Army is the major agent through which that policy is acted out.


perhaps this is due to the fact that you have an army.

[adamcircles]

Well, simply having an army doesn't necessarily stop people invading or attacking. But if you want to attribute the non-invasion of the UK over my lifetime to that fact (which I don't see how I can either confirm or deny), then you also have to attribute all the awful things the British Army have been responsible for to the Army (and the government, of course), so I think you'd have quite a bloody balance sheet, and not in a good way.

Also, one would think the fact that the UK is a nuclear armed state is a major factor in not having been invaded or attacked by a state actor.

Ultimately, I'm neutral on the existence of armed forces -- it just depends how they're used. But I think we should be striving for a world where military aggression, war, and the large-scale killing of other people do not exist, which would ultimately mean the non-existence of armies.

[open mind]

1. agreed.

2. hard to disagree.

do you not think a military is necessary?

yeah we need a military, but it should be used much more sparingly, and we shouldn't be spending so much on it.......sometimes i think the fact that we spend so much feeds into a fucked up mentality that we have to have a conflict and be killing people on a almost continual basis to justify the budgets.

[mattyrocks]

Well, simply having an army doesn't necessarily stop people invading or attacking. But if you want to attribute the non-invasion of the UK over my lifetime to that fact (which I don't see how I can either confirm or deny), then you also have to attribute all the awful things the British Army have been responsible for to the Army (and the government, of course), so I think you'd have quite a bloody balance sheet, and not in a good way.

Also, one would think the fact that the UK is a nuclear armed state is a major factor in not having been invaded or attacked by a state actor.

Ultimately, I'm neutral on the existence of armed forces -- it just depends how they're used. But I think we should be striving for a world where military aggression, war, and the large-scale killing of other people do not exist, which would ultimately mean the non-existence of armies.


i think this is what it comes down to. of course we should strive to be more peaceful human beings but i think we both know its kind of a pipe dream.

[mattyrocks]

yeah we need a military, but it should be used much more sparingly, and we shouldn't be spending so much on it.......sometimes i think the fact that we spend so much feeds into a fucked up mentality that we have to have a conflict and be killing people on a almost continual basis to justify the budgets.


i very much agree. there are defintely other things we could be spending that money on.

[InTheatersNow]

They do a lot of push ups.

[mattyrocks]

They do a lot of push ups.


ha yeah. marines do more.

[EasySkankin]

do you not think a military is necessary?
Some nations have done fine without one.

[mattyrocks]

Some nations have done fine without one.

probably because its suitable for them. not so much for more influential nations like the uk or us.

[EasySkankin]

probably because its suitable for them. not so much for more influential nations like the uk or us.
Influential? What are you talking about? maybe oppressive, you'd need an army for that. You don't need an army to be a good influence.

You don't need a large army to be a peacekeeping force.

[mattyrocks]

Influential? What are you talking about? maybe oppressive, you'd need an army for that. You don't need an army to be a good influence.

You don't need a large army to be a peacekeeping force.


so you dont think the us needs an army?

[EasySkankin]

so you dont think the us needs an army?
Nope. Who is a threat to us? Terrorists? An army can't do anything about that. I think it's a good idea to have some armed forces for peacekeeping situations and humanitarian efforts, but the U.S. army isn't really america's army.

Because the honest truth is that american people even as a collective have no say in what our army is used for. Even after 9/11 when we felt some action needed to be taken (rightfully so), WHO among the people decided Afghanistan and Iraq were suddenly responsible and needed to be destroyed? No one, because they had nothing to do with it. It was a certain corporation that used their already established lobbying and media power to spread this pretense that the problem was the Middle East, Islam, and Iraq, and look where that has gotten us. Just look at how much money has been moved from the american people into the select few arms manufacturers, how much richer the rich are and the poor, poorer. FOR WHAT!? What have we accomplished? At this point the only people that are attacking americans are other americans, and that's a REAL danger, a REAL threat. Just look at the poor taxi driver who was stabbed simply because he is muslim.

This idea that we NEED an army is a ruse to keep money flowing into a market that's virtually obsolete. Everybody and their dog's nanny knows that if a real war broke, we won't be fighting with troops and men on the ground, it'll be so much more devastating than that. We would synthesize the worst viruses known to man, and launch missiles that make hiroshima look like 4th of july at your uncle's house. And that does not even touch on how we can manipulate information via the internet.

it's just this horribly vicious cycle that will not stop unless people can swallow their pride and see how much of a monster our country has become.

[shamebuckets]

it's sweet that people are cool with their friends signing up to kill people

[BornUnderPunches]

it's sweet that people are cool with their friends signing up to kill people
lolwut

[The Indigo]

lolwut
Basically, he doesn't think killing people is OK under any circumstances. Seems like a perfectly acceptable viewpoint to me. :shrug: If a good friend of mine decided to serve, I probably would be weirded out by it. But I'd, of course, keep in mind that all positions in the military don't involve deployment/killing people, but still.

[BornUnderPunches]

Basically, he doesn't think killing people is OK under any circumstances. Seems like a perfectly acceptable viewpoint to me. :shrug: If a good friend of mine decided to serve, I probably would be weirded out by it. But I'd, of course, keep in mind that all positions in the military don't involve deployment/killing people, but still.
Yeah, exactly. From that post he's saying that the only reason anyone has to join the military is to kill people, which is, of course, far from the truth.

[mattyrocks]

Nope. Who is a threat to us? Terrorists? An army can't do anything about that. I think it's a good idea to have some armed forces for peacekeeping situations and humanitarian efforts, but the U.S. army isn't really america's army.

Because the honest truth is that american people even as a collective have no say in what our army is used for. Even after 9/11 when we felt some action needed to be taken (rightfully so), WHO among the people decided Afghanistan and Iraq were suddenly responsible and needed to be destroyed? No one, because they had nothing to do with it. It was a certain corporation that used their already established lobbying and media power to spread this pretense that the problem was the Middle East, Islam, and Iraq, and look where that has gotten us. Just look at how much money has been moved from the american people into the select few arms manufacturers, how much richer the rich are and the poor, poorer. FOR WHAT!? What have we accomplished? At this point the only people that are attacking americans are other americans, and that's a REAL danger, a REAL threat. Just look at the poor taxi driver who was stabbed simply because he is muslim.

This idea that we NEED an army is a ruse to keep money flowing into a market that's virtually obsolete. Everybody and their dog's nanny knows that if a real war broke, we won't be fighting with troops and men on the ground, it'll be so much more devastating than that. We would synthesize the worst viruses known to man, and launch missiles that make hiroshima look like 4th of july at your uncle's house. And that does not even touch on how we can manipulate information via the internet.

it's just this horribly vicious cycle that will not stop unless people can swallow their pride and see how much of a monster our country has become.


why would you need an army for peacekeeping situations?


and thats an interesting concept. to have citizens make decisons for their military.


good point. if there was another war it could just be nuclear warfare. but as of right now we are in guerilla warfare so we kinda need troops.


i concur. what can we do to change this cycle? god knows...

[The Indigo]

Yeah, exactly. From that post he's saying that the only reason anyone has to join the military is to kill people, which is, of course, far from the truth.
I understand his sentiment, however. I can't envision a reason where I'd be OK with one of my friends being in a position in the military in which they were responsible for the deaths of other human beings, either directly or indirectly.

[shamebuckets]

Yeah, exactly. From that post he's saying that the only reason anyone has to join the military is to kill people, which is, of course, far from the truth.

i apologize for not giving you a more comprehensive explanation for why i think signing up for a job that does or may involve killing people is beyond fucked up. i'll try to be more long-winded about my problems with people who participate in state terror next time i post

[BornUnderPunches]

i apologize for not giving you a more comprehensive explanation for why i think signing up for a job that does or may involve killing people is beyond fucked up. i'll try to be more long-winded about my problems with people who participate in state terror next time i post
How can you not respect people who risk their lives for you and your way of life?

[shamebuckets]

How can you not respect people who risk their lives for you and your way of life?

because i sincerely don't believe that that's what they're doing at all. besides, what is our way of life? i mean, i'll speak for myself, but what i see is one of excessive consumption, unnecessary luxuries galore, and an alarming amount of complacency. things would be a lot better if everyone had a "citizen of the world" mentality and if you approach geopolitics with any sort of historicism you'll see that supporting the United States Military is by no means a part of that mentality. perhaps it is our ways of life that have turned the West, especially us, into such a despised enemy during the past century. nothing changes unless we change. the current "American way of life" is undeniably base, it is not worth fighting for because it is in no way just.

[mattyrocks]

because i sincerely don't believe that that's what they're doing at all. besides, what is our way of life? i mean, i'll speak for myself, but what i see is one of excessive consumption, unnecessary luxuries galore, and an alarming amount of complacency. things would be a lot better if everyone had a "citizen of the world" mentality and if you approach geopolitics with any sort of historicism you'll see that supporting the United States Military is by no means a part of that mentality. perhaps it is our ways of life that have turned the West, especially us, into such a despised enemy during the past century. nothing changes unless we change. the current "American way of life" is undeniably base, it is not worth fighting for because it is in no way just.


what do you think they are doing?

[shamebuckets]

what do you think they are doing?
the same thing they've been doing for the past half-century, protecting American interest abroad. stripping Latin American and Middle Eastern countries of their resources and blaming the occupation on said country's regime. this helps convince people that they're fighting in the name of democracy. in fact, America (in all fairness, usually the CIA) has organized coups on multiple occasions to overthrow democratic governments in the interest of oil and other resources.

the military presence in Afghanistan doesn't make me feel safer, nor does the fact that the ISI (of Pakistan) and al-Quaeda have had a strangely intimate connection over the past 20 years. of course, looking for al-Quaeda where they generally operate from, which is in Pakistan, an ally of the U.S., would not be in our interest, so we don't. so i don't feel safe, i feel lied to and i feel ashamed to be an American.

[xallyfrenchx]

then go live somewhere else

[paper halo]

then go live somewhere else

This thread may be pretty pointless, but the attitude exemplified here is painfully idiotic.

[xallyfrenchx]

my husband is army and i just find it ridiculous the amount of sacrifice that our soldiers and families of them put in so people can sit at home on a computer and say - im ashamed of america. then go live somewhere you're proud of

that's what im saying

please tell me how that's idiotic.

[paper halo]

my husband is army and i just find it ridiculous the amount of sacrifice that our soldiers and families of them put in so people can sit at home on a computer and say - im ashamed of america. then go live somewhere you're proud of

that's what im saying

please tell me how that's idiotic.

It's idiotic because you live in a democracy, where it's perfectly acceptable to disapprove of the actions of your own country, based on the actions of it's elected government. This is why you have elections.

[The Indigo]

How can you not respect people who risk their lives for you and your way of life?
Because the army isn't protecting me. They're protecting America's interests. Just about every conflict America has been involved in this past sixty years or so has been to protect political interests, not our people. I'm against the killing of other human beings for any reason, especially for fucking political ones.

my husband is army and i just find it ridiculous the amount of sacrifice that our soldiers and families of them put in so people can sit at home on a computer and say - im ashamed of america. then go live somewhere you're proud of

that's what im saying

please tell me how that's idiotic.
Do you really believe our quagmires in the middle east are protecting our first amendment rights? Your statement is idiotic because the army is not living up to the standards we think it should. We live in a supposed Democracy, so we (in theory) have a right to help decide how our military is used. I don't want my friends and neighbors to be going overseas and killing innocent men, women, and children for the sake of some political interests, so the capitalists can keep getting richer and richer. There's is no war that's been fought by the United States in a very long time in which our lives/way of life was in anyway threatened.

[BornUnderPunches]

I've seen her other posts, I'm calling troll.

[xallyfrenchx]

I've seen her other posts, I'm calling troll.
lol no i just needed to make 15 posts so i could send a PM to someone i found in here
i tried to make the posts somewhat meaningful instead of just being a total douche bag

[xallyfrenchx]

It's idiotic because you live in a democracy, where it's perfectly acceptable to disapprove of the actions of your own country, based on the actions of it's elected government. This is why you have elections.
I'm not debating the theory of democracy and I completely agree with you on that. I'm just saying if you dont like America then why not move somewhere you DO like....just makes sense to me

[EasySkankin]

why would you need an army for peacekeeping situations?


and thats an interesting concept. to have citizens make decisons for their military.


good point. if there was another war it could just be nuclear warfare. but as of right now we are in guerilla warfare so we kinda need troops.


i concur. what can we do to change this cycle? god knows...
Well making an effort in a place like darfur for example would require some kind of military strength. It would obviously depend on the context.
Seeing as we pay them, and they are fighting for us, you'd figure the concept would have caught on earlier.
Sure, if there was a reason to fight guerillas.
I think people don't focus enough on positive solutions. Awareness is effective only up to a point.
then go live somewhere else
Most of us were born/raised here, and some people think that gives us some sort of attachment and responsibility to this place. If you don't like hearing what other people have to say, go to another thread... just makes sense.

[Zeran]

I'm not debating the theory of democracy and I completely agree with you on that. I'm just saying if you dont like America then why not move somewhere you DO like....just makes sense to me

to some people, you can be a patriot and love your country while also criticizing it. i know i do. many people see flaws in america today, and want to make things better.

[shamebuckets]

my husband is army and i just find it ridiculous the amount of sacrifice that our soldiers and families of them put in so people can sit at home on a computer and say - im ashamed of america. then go live somewhere you're proud of

that's what im saying

please tell me how that's idiotic.
people like you make me ashamed to live here. tell your husband thanks for enforcing my right to make fun of him on the computer, if you'd like to share personal stories you can contact me privately and we'll decide who's really making sacrifices for the betterment of the world. i highly doubt you're interested in anything that isn't North or West though, so maybe you should start with this list of books:

1. Resource Wars - Michael T. Klare
2. Crimes of War - Falk, Gendzier, and Lipton
3. The Record of the Paper - Friel, Falk (kind of a slog but it's worth it)

i'm sorry that your husband is in the military. you should encourage him to get out as soon as he can if you have any sense. or you can go on believing that our soldiers are actually fighting for something. there's fact and there's fiction. that's what I'M saying